Gen 5 Camaro Racing Tech, Results - 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 vs. 2010 Camaro SS L99

The 5.0 has factory 3.73's and is otherwise stock besides misc. road course/autocross suspension and dyno'd 375 rwhp.

1st Run - Camaro Stock

2nd Run - CAI, Tune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXQY7brY4-Y&playnext_from=TL&videos=WYrQkhXZ20k

Nice, I'm not surprised on the stock outcome. I really want to see an auto 5.0 run an L99.

That's a great ad for their product though. Shows it could be the difference between winning and losing.

Nice, I'm not surprised on the stock outcome. I really want to see an auto 5.0 run an L99.

I would like to see that too!

The Camaro picked up a whole second?

l99s respond well once tuned. ive heard both 5.0 and l99s have hit 12 stock though camaro times are all over the place.

The l99/a6 car is really turded up from the factory in the tune. My a4 05 gto was just as bad. I went from a 13.7 pre tune to a 12.82 after tune.

l99s respond well once tuned. ive heard both 5.0 and l99s have hit 12 stock though camaro times are all over the place.

See I agree with that, those drivers are not getting everything they can out of the cars. It has been recorded that bot those cars with good drivers can easily break into the 12 sec barrier without breaking a sweat.

My 02 SS A4 went 12.87 w/ just a Hypertech hand tuner.But the new Camaro's dont seem to want to do good 60's.Mine did a 2.30 60ft @ 13.08 but that is probally me not leaving the line hard and spinning the tires threw 3rd on street tires.

My 02 SS A4 went 12.87 w/ just a Hypertech hand tuner.But the new Camaro's dont seem to want to do good 60's.Mine did a 2.30 60ft @ 13.08 but that is probally me not leaving the line hard and spinning the tires threw 3rd on street tires.

how much do you think that hypertech helped?

Well it went 13.36 stock and then i did a P&P TB and the Hypertech hand tuner it went 12.87 so it was good for a few 10ths.

My 02 SS A4 went 12.87 w/ just a Hypertech hand tuner.But the new Camaro's dont seem to want to do good 60's.Mine did a 2.30 60ft @ 13.08 but that is probally me not leaving the line hard and spinning the tires threw 3rd on street tires.

With 20's and a 3800+lbs. curb weight you really have to ride the clutch out of the hole. So much so that you think your gonna smoke it. It'll handle it and a decent 60' will result. I was able to get a 2.0 out if it on stock psi pirelli's.

A 2.0 60ft would be nice.Did u let any air out of the tires ?

My 2010 Camaro went 13.2 stock L99 do you think I would go 12.2 then with this tune ?

My 2010 Camaro went 13.2 stock L99 do you think I would go 12.2 then with this tune ?


id have to say no but if it happens ill be reconsidering an a6.

ive heard both 5.0 and l99s have hit 12 stockthose cars with good drivers can easily break into the 12 sec barrier without breaking a sweat.Absolutely, plenty of the SS automatics have gone 12.9s with even a few 12.8s in stock trim.
I ran my friend's bone stock Camaro SS L99 to a 13.08 on my 2nd (of only 2 total) attempt last month. The next guy (who weighs less than me) to try it ran a 12.96 on only his 2nd attempt and this was not in the best air either.
I know the Mustang GT automatics can do it easily as well.

Wow....

A 2.0 60ft would be nice.Did u let any air out of the tires ?

Nope, 36 psi

ehhhh.. but those 5.0 motors are tapped out. the only way you could get more power out of it is a tune and then a power adder. the lsx cars like cams/heads/etc and are cheaper to build and will continue to get cheaper as they age and aftermarket catches up to demand. my game plan is still to buy a 2010 SS in a few years once they get down around 20 or so. just cant see paying 40g's, might as well buy a c6 for that much.

ehhhh.. but those 5.0 motors are tapped out. the only way you could get more power out of it is a tune and then a power adder. the lsx cars like cams/heads/etc and are cheaper to build and will continue to get cheaper as they age and aftermarket catches up to demand. my game plan is still to buy a 2010 SS in a few years once they get down around 20 or so. just cant see paying 40g's, might as well buy a c6 for that much.


ehhhh I wouldn't be so sure.


evolution 2011 mustang 10.97 n/a

Hey FOG that link doesn't work bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62zJ-4Bo48&feature=player_embedded


10.97 is impressive time no doubt. With that said I ain't guttin my car to make it any faster. Especially after you just paid 30-35K for it.

Im also curious to see whats going to happen to the sales of the GT500 behind this. This new GT almost makes it silly to spend that kind of money on it now.

Hey FOG that link doesn't work bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62zJ-4Bo48&feature=player_embedded


10.97 is impressive time no doubt. With that said I ain't guttin my car to make it any faster. Especially after you just paid 30-35K for it.

Im also curious to see whats going to happen to the sales of the GT500 behind this. This new GT almost makes it silly to spend that kind of money on it now.

People who buy GT 500s rarely keep them stock. But yeah the Mustang GT is impressive.

I work with a dude who knows stangs very well and keeps up on the news.

He says he found out that the Evelution Stang is lightened up to 2800 lbs ??

No wonder it will run a 10 sec quarter.

If it runs 10 sec and weighs that much, it's still 420 > 430 hp

Now in the 9's.

This car has suspension, a little lightening, and a big nitrous hit - Stock long block.

They also ripped out the 6-speed for a built C-4 Auto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZopOJ4Bd88

How big of a shot did they use?

Wow, the guys at Livernois do great work. A full second with just those mods is quite impressive. I really expected those L99's to be quicker with a factory rating of 400hp. About a year ago I rode passenger with a buddy in his stock (at the time) '02 SS M6 while he stayed neck and neck with an L99 RS/SS. I was quite baffled with that one.

I work with a dude who knows stangs very well and keeps up on the news.

He says he found out that the Evelution Stang is lightened up to 2800 lbs ??

No wonder it will run a 10 sec quarter.

If it runs 10 sec and weighs that much, it's still 420 > 430 hp

I figured that car weighed significantly less than stock. Makes more sense now.

How big of a shot did they use? I'd say 175 - 200 based on the 137mph trap over the evolution cars 121+ ...

I'd say 175 - 200 based on the 137mph trap over the evolution cars 121+ ...

Yeah I was thinking a 200 probably.

656rwhp for the 9 sec stang. the stock coyote is A LOT stronger than everyone including me thought.



if the motors hold up, i bet a 200 shot is going to be a popular choice at the track. 600rwhp at the push of a button. same for the street. 150-200 shots are gonna suprise a lot of other car owners.

I've run across a few 2011 GT's, but so far no one has wanted to run. Wasn't in my 5th gen though, was in my 9 second 4th gen. I would rather get my first shot at one in the 5th gen NA, instead of a 4th gen that's already quicker than any recorded 2011.

I've run across a few 2011 GT's, but so far no one has wanted to run. Wasn't in my 5th gen though, was in my 9 second 4th gen. I would rather get my first shot at one in the 5th gen NA, instead of a 4th gen that's already quicker than any recorded 2011.

how fast is your 4th gen?

Really impressed w/ these cars

I've run across a few 2011 GT's, but so far no one has wanted to run. Wasn't in my 5th gen though, was in my 9 second 4th gen. I would rather get my first shot at one in the 5th gen NA, instead of a 4th gen that's already quicker than any recorded 2011.


i doubt your 9 second car is stealthy lol.

i doubt your 9 second car is stealthy lol.

It's stealthier than you think, but the big 325's on street lights & front runners make it look a little mean.

Fog it's running 9.7x, full weight, ac, stock CI ls1, full interior, weigh's as much as my 5th gen & still run's 9.7's on pump gas with a 200 shot. Futral built 346, Rossler 4L60, straight up street car. Motor is made to handle a 350 shot, but why push it so hard when it does so good on a 200 shot. Since futral built it nitrous specific it makes a shit load more power than 200 when pilled for a 200. On just the 200 shot, the little 346 is laying down 795 RWHP. Couldn't get a number on the 350 shot as it was blowing through the converter on the dyno & dyno number don't really concern me anyway. All my cars get the hell beat outta them at the track & on the road.

Here is a vid of what the 4th gen sounds like & you can't miss the kit under the hood. That is with the cutout, through the magnaflow, it just sounds like a cammed LS1. HUGE cam, but still

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4A141oh_jo

The 4th gen is probably stealthier than the 5th gen right now. Gotta do some more muffler work. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEetM7I-vv8

^^^^^^^^^^

I think its safe to say you ain't sneakin up on nobody with neither one of them jokers.
You got two mean horses in your stable there man, im jealous.:cheers:

Back to the first posted vid about the 5.0l; its running mid 13@107...so I'm not surprised its 107 and not 111mph like everyone is believing..

Anyway, those tuned 10' SS auto are strong runners.

Someone else just posted another mustang that trapped 107 too.

Someone else just posted another mustang that trapped 107 too.Elevation! my friend elevation....

I like Jamnut, he doesn't bull shit.. :cheers:

Elevation! my friend elevation....

Doesnt say where the car was run. You have to register on a mustang site to read the thread.

Elevation! my friend elevation....

Hype! my friend hype....

Hype! my friend hype....Bro in all seriousness?:jest:

Hype! my friend hype....

They are already in the 9s, not hype.

lemons12 according to your calculators its 30 hp so yeah i would say its possible it could be the difference between static and spinning. are you the expert?

lemons12 according to your calculators its 30 hp so yeah i would say its possible it could be the difference between static and spinning. are you the expert?

What is 30HP?

And yes as a matter of fact. :chug:

yeah i could tell when you were the clown claiming to be an expert telling me it was impossible for an ls6 block to make more hp than a ls1 block but now i know.

what is 30hp? thats your answer? very logical, you come up with that one by yourself or you needed to google that?

yeah i could tell when you were the clown claiming to be an expert telling me it was impossible for an ls6 block to make more hp than a ls1 block but now i know.

Would you like to explain to me why an ls6 block will make more power than an ls1 block?

I'm the clown, you are right....... :thumb:

You are amazing.

no you were the one saying its impossible. impossible is a strong word and was curious where you got your phd in mechanical and/or structural engineering and how you've been working on these projects for the last ten years.

there are many things going on inside the block and I was very curious in how you can just come out being so sure. considering things such common issues as distortion and crank walk. im talking 5-10rwhp. whats 5 hp right?

a lot of ls6 blocked cars are putting up impressive numbers and it makes one think.

no you were the one saying its impossible. impossible is a strong word and was curious where you got your phd in mechanical and/or structural engineering and how you've been working on these projects for the last ten years.

there are many things going on inside the block and I was very curious in how you can just come out being so sure. considering things such common issues as distortion and crank walk. im talking 5-10rwhp. whats 5 hp right?

a lot of ls6 blocked cars are putting up impressive numbers and it makes one think.

It is.. What is different with the block that would allow you take make more power?
There are a lot of ls1 block cars putting up impressive numbers (500+Rwhp on motor).. What is your point?
2 cars... 1 ls6 block and 1 ls1 block.. both near identical mods.. ONLY difference is the ls1 had a hand ported 90mm (crappy port, 5Rwhp MAX on a stock cubed ls1) and the other had an untouched 90 on it.. The ls1 had 410s (robs more power) where the ls6 had 373s.. The ls1 had a 4400 converter (robs more power) where the ls6 had a 3600.. The ls1 put down 8 more Rwhp. Impossible, right? That does not make my argument fact, but that is facts of two cars and the outcome. Yet I am a clown.

I'm done with you. You can't even muster up a half ass point to make your argument worth while and it takes you 20 minutes for a reply.

Good day. :cheers:

all i did was bring up a point not using those two cars as a comparison just impressive numbers per mod on the ls6 car and its pretty common. your done with me because you claim to be an expert with no knowledge of what your talking about. we all may have been impressed with your drunken backyard experiments with your own car, but it seems were not even blessed with that.

Back to the first posted vid about the 5.0l; its running mid 13@107...so I'm not surprised its 107 and not 111mph like everyone is believing..

Anyway, those tuned 10' SS auto are strong runners.

Since when did back to back 13.2's become mid 13's? No need for high praise, but it's clearly not "mid" in any sense. Milan isn't a great track even when conditions are good. I think both cars would run better at various other tracks. Of course, they're working with what they have...

when the rotating assembly is now rotating in a slightly distorted fashion that will affect hp. when you have deflection in the block that energy comes from somewhere and that will affect hp. when this distortion affects alignment in the bearings and so on. there is a shit-ton of subsidiary complex phenomena occurring just was curious how you could know for a fact gm engineers didnt yield anything from their revision of their originally released block.

this isnt something you can just test because assembly usually has a significant variance in power output. this would primarily come from theory and tossed a question out there to see if there was a real expert to further explain this. i was never claiming that i was one.

They are already in the 9s, not hype.

I dont give a damn about modded one. Any car can hit 9s modded. Except FWD...The hype going on this thing like any new 5.0l will be 12.5@111 is the hype I'm talking about. I say lets wait and lets see more data before jumping to conclusion. Anyway, just say what you want, but I like to keep things real so I'm not disapointed like everyone else after.

Since when did back to back 13.2's become mid 13's? No need for high praise, but it's clearly not "mid" in any sense. Milan isn't a great track even when conditions are good. I think both cars would run better at various other tracks. Of course, they're working with what they have...

Sorry about the 'mid' typo, clearly a +-13.0 flat car. My bad, just a typo dont get sensitive. I dont have anything about this 5.0l. Good thing if every 5.0l will run 12.5@112mph bone stock, I'll just go buy one, but it wont happen.

Back to the first posted vid about the 5.0l; its running mid 13@107...so I'm not surprised its 107 and not 111mph like everyone is believing..


So some ya-hoo in a youtube video who obviously looks like they couldn't drive to save there life goes mid 13's @107 and now thats the more believeable number to you right? Never mind the tons of other videos and articles that support the fact that the GT is a 12 second car bone stock, thats all hype right?

You stick your head in the sand if you want too. You'll be in the perfect position for whats next.

ehhhh.. but those 5.0 motors are tapped out.

You don't realize how wrong you are.

You don't realize how wrong you are.I keep hearing that and I do actually agree with it...but these fast 10 second (and now 9 second) quarter mile times that people keep presenting as evidence in that arguement are NOT proof of how much more is left in the new 5.0L motor (other than the tuning changes).
Those cars went fast (and yes, they did go REALLLY fast) with bolt ons, suspension work, nitrous and weight reduction, not internal engine modifications. So until someone performs some cam swaps and/or cylinder head work we really don't know if the motor is tapped out yet or not (I don't think it is personally but again, just sayin').

I keep hearing that and I do actually agree with it...but these fast 10 second (and now 9 second) quarter mile times that people keep presenting as evidence in that arguement are NOT proof of how much more is left in the new 5.0L motor (other than the tuning changes).
Those cars went fast (and yes, they did go REALLLY fast) with bolt ons, suspension work, nitrous and weight reduction, not internal engine modifications. So until someone performs some cam swaps and/or cylinder head work we really don't know if the motor is tapped out yet or not (I don't think it is personally but again, just sayin').

Would you accept a 28hp gain from a tune? if not I won't post.
headers? I know you don't believe long tubes over shorties would yield zero gains.
ford known for a rich tune from the factory? let me know if you are willing to accept these... and ye shall recieve.

Would you accept a 28hp gain from a tune? if not I won't post.Well I did post "other than the tuning changes" above :) but yes I would happily accept that as long as that gain was obtained on an otherwise pure bone stock car.
Exhaust and air intake changes can obviously skew a supposed "tuning only" gain.

Well I did post "other than the tuning changes" above :) but yes I would happily accept that as long as that gain was obtained on an otherwise pure bone stock car.
Exhaust and air intake changes can obviously skew a supposed "tuning only" gain.

Of of course sir, might want to check out the home page of http://www.SCTFLASH.com they have just released their tune for the new 5.0 enjoy the vid.

oh and that's WHEEL torque and HP btw not crank.

Well that put crickets in the thread rather quickly... lol

Oh LSLT1 and then there is this thread from today right here on ls1tech

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1296495-2011-gt-dyno-results.html

let me know what you think man.

Well that put crickets in the thread rather quickly... lolNah, I wasn't runnin' and hidin' LOL, was just in some other sections of the board browsing a little. ;)

I guess it's just a matter of semantics, when people (not me) say that it's maxed out from the factory I would assume that they're talking about internal hard parts and not just mere bolt ons or tuning. Some (again, not me) might say "well, yeah, of course there's more power to be made from leaning a car out or removing cats & mufflers, duh" and then go on about how the cams and heads are the items that they were actually talking about.
Either way the car is impressive and we haven't heard the last of it's potential as the tuners start to introduce internal parts and even (low boost) forced induction kits for it. :nod:

Damnit, did you have to be all polite and cool about it?

muahaha

Now is it because most mustangs before the 5.0 were so slow that people ignore LS3 numbers or is it that people just expect LS based cars to be beasts? When I read crap like "the 5.0 is going to be a terror on the streets" I laugh. I guess as long as they stay away from a modded LS cars or terminators they will be a wrecking machine.

Now is it because most mustangs before the 5.0 were so slow that people ignore LS3 numbers or is it that people just expect LS based cars to be beasts? When I read crap like "the 5.0 is going to be a terror on the streets" I laugh. I guess as long as they stay away from a modded LS cars or terminators they will be a wrecking machine.Do you mean to say something like, "Yeah they're quicker stock for stock, but since others are modified, they won't beat everything?"

I'm just wondering... After all, you certainly know they're not all staying stock. I think many people are ignoring LS3 numbers for 2 reasons. #1, it's old news already. #2, we're learning (rather quickly) much about potential/durability of the 5.0L and most at least somewhat want to know. Plus, the LS3 is in a beast... A big ol heavy beast and the Mustang is easily keeping pace, so it draws interest.

So some ya-hoo in a youtube video who obviously looks like they couldn't drive to save there life goes mid 13's @107 and now thats the more believeable number to you right? Never mind the tons of other videos and articles that support the fact that the GT is a 12 second car bone stock, thats all hype right?

You stick your head in the sand if you want too. You'll be in the perfect position for whats next.

So the new camaro is a bone stock 12s car and wasnt the hype wasnt even close to be that big. Not even on this GM site.

I'm not saying its not fast, or that 13.2@107 is slow, but heres that vid with the ULTRA-WEAK L99 with CAI/tune beating this GT. But nobody cares now that not so long ago L99 SS where slow as shit. How come should I put my head in the sand when a L99 10' SS is a CAI/tune away from SUPER-MIGHTY 5.0L?

I see it coming; from LS1tech to 5.0ltech..

Now is it because most mustangs before the 5.0 were so slow that people ignore LS3 numbers or is it that people just expect LS based cars to be beasts? When I read crap like "the 5.0 is going to be a terror on the streets" I laugh. I guess as long as they stay away from a modded LS cars or terminators they will be a wrecking machine.

Those were my words, because obviously, compared to the 2010 GT and older, the 2011 is in another league, same as the new 2010 SS. Going from 315 to 415hp is a pretty big jump.

another thing, I think Push rods LS engines are easier to mod than any of those OHC 5.0l when it comes to internals. Thats a major thing, since cam are good for an easy 470-500rwhp..on LS3 ;)

Those were my words, because obviously, compared to the 2010 GT and older, the 2011 is in another league, same as the new 2010 SS. Going from 315 to 415hp is a pretty big jump.

another thing, I think Push rods LS engines are easier to mod than any of those OHC 5.0l when it comes to internals. Thats a major thing, since cam are good for an easy 470-500rwhp..on LS3 ;)
I didn't mean to single anybody out, I was trying to generalize and picked your quote. Sorry. I will agree they will be one of the faster cars out there.

Do you mean to say something like, "Yeah they're quicker stock for stock, but since others are modified, they won't beat everything?"

I'm just wondering... After all, you certainly know they're not all staying stock. I think many people are ignoring LS3 numbers for 2 reasons. #1, it's old news already. #2, we're learning (rather quickly) much about potential/durability of the 5.0L and most at least somewhat want to know. Plus, the LS3 is in a beast... A big ol heavy beast and the Mustang is easily keeping pace, so it draws interest.
Once there's actual numbers that prove they are faster stock for stock then yeah maybe I would mean that. I think it says a lot that the Camaro can carry around an extra 200lbs. and still run the lighter 5.0, I think the interest in drawn because the mustang, after being a terrible performer for so many years, is now making a little noise. I don't get the love fest with the car, especially on here. I would love to see a nitrous comparison between the 5.0 and LS3. Shops spraying the piss out of the 5.0 because they don't give a shit when it blows doesn't impress me.

I don't get the love fest with the car, especially on here. I would love to see a nitrous comparison between the 5.0 and LS3. Shops spraying the piss out of the 5.0 because they don't give a shit when it blows doesn't impress me.

This is the part I dont get too!!?? WTF? Its only a damn driver's race with the 2010 SS! I mean its not like its running 11s@119mph stock, but it sure does sound like that with the Ford love fest going on...

So the new camaro is a bone stock 12s car and wasnt the hype wasnt even close to be that big. Not even on this GM site.

I'm not saying its not fast, or that 13.2@107 is slow, but heres that vid with the ULTRA-WEAK L99 with CAI/tune beating this GT. But nobody cares now that not so long ago L99 SS where slow as shit. How come should I put my head in the sand when a L99 10' SS is a CAI/tune away from SUPER-MIGHTY 5.0L?

I see it coming; from LS1tech to 5.0ltech..



Those were my words, because obviously, compared to the 2010 GT and older, the 2011 is in another league, same as the new 2010 SS. Going from 315 to 415hp is a pretty big jump.

another thing, I think Push rods LS engines are easier to mod than any of those OHC 5.0l when it comes to internals. Thats a major thing, since cam are good for an easy 470-500rwhp..on LS3 ;)

Show me a cam swap that made 500whp on the camaro with the ls3.
Unless you happen to be one of those guys who spits out random "facts" from left field.

Show me a cam swap that made 500whp on the camaro with the ls3.
Unless you happen to be one of those guys who spits out random "facts" from left field.

Here's one. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/2010-camaro/1282177-cam-install-complete-497-hp-451-tq.html

From what I've seen guys are putting down in the 460s-470s range but also only have a couple hundred miles on the motor.

That was also on a mustang dyno.

That car has a Roto-fab CAI, 160T-stat, 1-5/8" catless long tube headers, and JBA axleback's johnny said "just a cam swap will net you 500whp"

That car has a Roto-fab CAI, 160T-stat, 1-5/8" catless long tube headers, and JBA axleback's johnny said "just a cam swap will net you 500whp"

It's funny because I think he would have had better results w/ a set of 1&7/8ths over the 1&5/8ths. But I think when most do a cam swap it's in conjunction w/ or after the other usual bolt ons ie. intake, full exhaust etc.

Nobody swaps a cam and leaves stock manifolds and exhaust. Now you're splitting hairs.

This is the part I dont get too!!?? WTF? Its only a damn driver's race with the 2010 SS! I mean its not like its running 11s@119mph stock, but it sure does sound like that with the Ford love fest going on...

I think people are butt hurt and refuse to look past the weight and IRS of the 5th gen and really appreciate what the car is capable of. People seem to believe that lighter, lower tech and SRA is always better and it has been proven it's not.

Would I love to have an SRA, 3500 lb., LS3 Camaro? Absolutely, but I'll take the car in the package it's in.

I think people are butt hurt and refuse to look past the weight and IRS of the 5th gen and really appreciate what the car is capable of. People seem to believe that lighter, lower tech and SRA is always better and it has been proven it's not.

Would I love to have an SRA, 3500 lb., LS3 Camaro? Absolutely, but I'll take the car in the package it's in.

I put more weight in track times and g forces than opinions which are almost always bias. the mustang put up the times to show a well done SRA can definitely do it's job on the track and the strip there is no denying that. I mean you can deny it if you want of course but the numbers don't lie or have a brain full of bias.


Nobody swaps a cam and leaves stock manifolds and exhaust. Now you're splitting hairs.


as for the cam thing, johnny sad a cam swap will yield 500whp in a camaro with an LS3 did he not?, I wouldn't call taking what he said literally splitting hairs that is ACTUALLY what he said. and yes people do just swap cams and leave the exhaust stock, since when did you run the survey to include "everyone" ?

I put more weight in track times and g forces than opinions which are almost always bias. the mustang put up the times to show a well done SRA can definitely do it's job on the track and the strip there is no denying that. I mean you can deny it if you want of course but the numbers don't lie or have a brain full of bias.





as for the cam thing, johnny sad a cam swap will yield 500whp in a camaro with an LS3 did he not?, I wouldn't call taking what he said literally splitting hairs that is ACTUALLY what he said. and yes people do just swap cams and leave the exhaust stock, since when did you run the survey to include "everyone" ?

I remind you I said 470-500rwhp. Comon, youre stirring up shit; its common knowledge that when you do camswap, you have some boltons along. Its like that in my book.

Sorry for you, but 500rwhp cammed LS3 are old news since the LS3 vettes in 08'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=nxFX-lRmUD4&feature=related

camaro 470rwhp;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtNYBbdlJtA

480rwhp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V7DLuyhjCI

Sorry not everyone on earth subscribes to your "book" and I take words typed literally as they should be taken unless it's sarcastic of course.

in my BOOK when you talk about horsepower numbers you mention ALL THE MODS wouldn't anything else be misleading?

I put more weight in track times and g forces than opinions which are almost always bias. the mustang put up the times to show a well done SRA can definitely do it's job on the track and the strip there is no denying that. I mean you can deny it if you want of course but the numbers don't lie or have a brain full of bias.


There is no denying that the fastest stock times are equal, right? It seems you are the one denying the facts and being one sided. Numbers and times have shown that the weight advantage the mustang has does not show up at the track. Unless there is a mustang out there that ran faster in stock form that only you know about. It's easier to get the GT to run better numbers modded than the SS because the platform has been around for 6 years. In stock form it is close and it all depends on the guy behind the wheel. I like my odds.

There is no denying that the fastest stock times are equal, right? It seems you are the one denying the facts and being one sided. Numbers and times have shown that the weight advantage the mustang has does not show up at the track. Unless there is a mustang out there that ran faster in stock form that only you know about. It's easier to get the GT to run better numbers modded than the SS because the platform has been around for 6 years. In stock form it is close and it all depends on the guy behind the wheel. I like my odds.

What numbers and times have shown where? These times I am talking about are from multiple magazines in which the mustang constantly pulls more g's than the camaro and gets through the figure 8 faster than the camaro, stops better than the camaro, and gets to 60 and 100 faster than the camaro, where is the proof of your claims because mine can be found very easily.

What numbers and times have shown where? These times I am talking about are from multiple magazines in which the mustang constantly pulls more g's than the camaro and gets through the figure 8 faster than the camaro, stops better than the camaro, and gets to 60 and 100 faster than the camaro, where is the proof of your claims because mine can be found very easily.

Have you gotten yourself a new '11 GT yet? And driven it, been down the track with it, and modded it? No? Because we, the LS1tech community, have in fact bought our 5th gens, driven and modded our cars, and have our own facts to back our data. Not just information read out of a magazine. Fact is you joined simply to stir shit up, a few days ago and half of the guys you're bench racing with have their '10 SS sitting in their driveway! Of course they're going to argue your magazine based claims to fame...

Have you gotten yourself a new '11 GT yet? And driven it, been down the track with it, and modded it? No? Because we, the LS1tech community, have in fact bought our 5th gens, driven and modded our cars, and have our own facts to back our data. Not just information read out of a magazine. Fact is you joined simply to stir shit up, a few days ago and half of the guys you're bench racing with have their '10 SS sitting in their driveway! Of course they're going to argue your magazine based claims to fame...


So magazine times are invalid and made up? I am talking about private owners on other sites as well than have run great times.

Are you saying just because you didn't see it, it didn't happen? that's pretty strong denial.
No need to get sensitive about it bro if you can't handle a little internet back and forth without getting angry don't post.

So magazine times are invalid and made up? I am talking about private owners on other sites as well than have run great times.

Are you saying just because you didn't see it, it didn't happen? that's pretty strong denial.
No need to get sensitive about it bro if you can't handle a little internet back and forth without getting angry don't post.

All I'm saying is its a bit ridiculous for you to try and argue with guys that actually have the car they lusted after... I don't deny anything, the Mustang may very well be one quick little car, but I don't go on every Mustang forum and run my mouth about how my car is so much faster than any of their cars. Or could be, or will be... And I don't really think you're in any position to tell me whether or not to post kid.

Oh, I get it now. Since you can't prove the GT is faster you now are going to say that it handles and stops better. Oh but that's only if you get the upgraded brakes and tires. So then with base models the Camaro wins, right? Your arguments are ridiculous and irrelevant. They stop with in 5 feet of each other and pull with in .05g and that's with out the Camaro getting the benefit of a track pack and the mustang being upgraded and subsequently costing about $3500 more. Again a drivers race no matter what track you would be on.

All I'm saying is its a bit ridiculous for you to try and argue with guys that actually have the car they lusted after... I don't deny anything, the Mustang may very well be one quick little car, but I don't go on every Mustang forum and run my mouth about how my car is so much faster than any of their cars. Or could be, or will be... And I don't really think you're in any position to tell me whether or not to post kid.


I am doing nothing but sharing facts, and popping in on the random feller saying "yea that GT is maxed out" wouldn't you want your brethren being more educated than that? I know I would which is why I check out the camaro as well.

"kid?" again you're getting overly sensitive on the internet, but I don't call names so enjoy that all by yourself.

I personally have never seen a 2010 camaro break 13.15 best at englishtown, but I am not dumb enough to go around and say "camaro's only run 13.1's!" because that's what I have seen in a real life, I haven't seen the camaro magazine times. that's your logic right there, but what I have seen is a 12.7, 12.78 and 12.85 runs and a 13 flat in REAL LIFE from a 2011 GT. again your logic is being used here.

Dark there is no 2011 "track pack" anything track pack related is already in the car. so no add on track pack exists.
also saying I can't prove the mustang is fast is just blindly ignoring my posts and every mustang that has went down the 1/4 thus far including the auto GT than just ran 12.57 yesterday in cali. but you didn't see it so you can say it doesn't exist.

p.s: what did YOU run in your camaro on the 1/4 stock?

Fdjizm is just a troll that got banned from camaro5. I had it out with him there a few times. He remembers me. I dubed him "Barbie mustang". Anyways he will jus talk shit on here. He ha more posts talkin shit about camaros on camaro5 then he had posts talkin about mustangs on whatever site it was he posted on. He's a tool wanna be gangster if you check out his myspace. Lol

Fdjizm is just a troll that got banned from camaro5. I had it out with him there a few times. He remembers me. I dubed him "Barbie mustang". Anyways he will jus talk shit on here. He ha more posts talkin shit about camaros on camaro5 then he had posts talkin about mustangs on whatever site it was he posted on. He's a tool wanna be gangster if you check out his myspace. Lol

And I made a point everytime. don't forget it :)
I didn't know you still stalked me bro, awwwwwwwwww :hump:

I am doing nothing but sharing facts, and popping in on the random feller saying "yea that GT is maxed out" wouldn't you want your brethren being more educated than that? I know I would which is why I check out the camaro as well.

"kid?" again you're getting overly sensitive on the internet, but I don't call names so enjoy that all by yourself.

I personally have never seen a 2010 camaro break 13.15 best at englishtown, but I am not dumb enough to go around and say "camaro's only run 13.1's!" because that's what I have seen in a real life, I haven't seen the camaro magazine times. that's your logic right there, but what I have seen is a 12.7, 12.78 and 12.85 runs and a 13 flat in REAL LIFE from a 2011 GT. again your logic is being used here.

Dark there is no 2011 "track pack" anything track pack related is already in the car. so no add on track pack exists.
also saying I can't prove the mustang is fast is just blindly ignoring my posts and every mustang that has went down the 1/4 thus far including the auto GT than just ran 12.57 yesterday in cali. but you didn't see it so you can say it doesn't exist.

p.s: what did YOU run in your camaro on the 1/4 stock?

There may not be a "track pack" but you have to pay extra for pirelli's and brembo's. Also there is no gear option for the Camaro either.
P.S., try a search. I have post numerous times what my car has ran.

It is pretty evident you get your chubby from talking about the almighty 5.0 on GM sites so go drink the blue kool-aid and try the corral.

Talking about me personally is ignoring the info posted, isn't it?

Talking about me personally is ignoring the info posted, isn't it?

Bro your like new member 567 this month that is here to try and gloat about the mustang. You bring nothing to the table here to contribute to this site. Just. Keep in mind this isn't camaro5 and If you act like a douchebag you will get treated like one. So far your kind of smelling like summers eve FYI.

I've obviously enlightened a few people that were incorrect with their statements, I'd say that's a little something no?

Anyway back to the topic...

I've obviously enlightened a few people that were incorrect with their statements, I'd say that's a little something no?

Anyway back to the topic...

No you didn't, people are just sick of trying to educate you in your errors. I for one have decided to put you on ignore so don't flatter yourself cupcake.

I've obviously enlightened a few people that were incorrect with their statements, I'd say that's a little something no?

Anyway back to the topic...

I was correct with my statements.. Although, after reading some of the posts in here...... I am much much less impressed with the 2011 GT.

I'm just curioous where all these Ford :hump: were last year????

the 2011 GT is a nice ride no doubt, but it's not laying the wood to the SS like the SS laid on the GT last year when they had to bring in a 48K GT500 to make it a fair race against the 32K SS.

How bout you guys go play nice on your forum? I don't troll yours, why are you trolling mine?

Back on topic? let's not make it all about me fellas.
You can comment on the times I've posted before to help you get back on track.\

I'm just curioous where all these Ford :hump: were last year????

the 2011 GT is a nice ride no doubt, but it's not laying the wood to the SS like the SS laid on the GT last year when they had to bring in a 48K GT500 to make it a fair race against the 32K SS.

How bout you guys go play nice on your forum? I don't troll yours, why are you trolling mine?

+1 and do any of these guys even have a 2011 GT? Pretty lame bragging on a car that you don't even own. There's no point in being drawn into an argument....just a waste of time....better off ignoring them.

+1 and do any of these guys even have a 2011 GT? Pretty lame bragging on a car that you don't even own. There's no point in being drawn into an argument....just a waste of time....better off ignoring them.

+100. Exactly what I was trying to convey earlier.

cant wait until the 5.0 gt500 numbers come out... then we get to do this all over again with the upcoming z28/corvette.

Sorry not everyone on earth subscribes to your "book" and I take words typed literally as they should be taken unless it's sarcastic of course.

in my BOOK when you talk about horsepower numbers you mention ALL THE MODS wouldn't anything else be misleading?

Well its not because its in my book; pay yourself a ride in the dyno/internal sections(if you didnt know they exist) and look for threads with cams and no other mods :poke: thats right theres none..except maybe 1 thread for testing but there sure is other boltons. So youre just stirring up shit and a tech noob.

:gtfo:

Yeah, cam only has pretty much meant plus supporting mods since forever. Why would you cam a car with no exhaust work or intake work?


Suprised he didnt make a fit about it being tuned to run the cam too.

cant wait until the 5.0 gt500 numbers come out... then we get to do this all over again with the upcoming z28/corvette.

damn youre right :nono:

I've got to say......and I'm not trying to light the blaze bigger than it already is........but if so few guys on this site really give a damn about the new GT, seems kinda funny that EVERY thread regarding it in this section has a huge post count. Everyone knows it's not wise to feed trolls, and if one really doesn't give a flip about automobile xyz.....then why go to such lengths to make a stance against said car??? I think all but the most blind of individuals in these threads knows what the score is concerning the new SS vs the new GT. Most of the bickering here is just posturing for the sake of making one's car of choice smell rosier than the competition. NO one side here can claim otherwise. Everyone likes to agree that both cars are comparable and capable with the right work done, yet almost everyone keeps finding a way or reason to make one car seem better/faster than the other. You might as well be having a Democrat vs Republican debate in here.......because everyone is going to cater to their own beliefs and no one is going to listen to what the other side has to say. Call it a draw......go have a Coke and a smile. ;)

I've already told you boys what to do, but you keep ignoring me so you can argue with all the Ford "nutswingers". Have these threads locked or moved into the Lounge. There's too much complaining and almost no effort being put into doing something about it. And no.........trying to prove someone wrong on the internet is NOT an effective way to stop these kinds of threads from blossoming into 10 page debacles.

^this guy is smart!

I personally have never seen a 2010 camaro break 13.15 best at englishtown, but I am not dumb enough to go around and say "camaro's only run 13.1's!"



It's funny you picked 13.15 as your base time, that was always my dial in when my car was bone stock at a very crappy track cutting high 1.9x short times on stock street tires. Different track, shorter tire, same setup I was running 12.6x's on a better short.

How many GT drivers are going to be able to get into the 12's with a stock car?? About the same amount that can get a 10ss into the 12's. It's a drivers race.

Also didn't quote you on it, but how come you say ford doesn't have a track pack, when they advertise a track pack with 3.73's, different wheels, tires, suspension & other shit?

Oh, I get it now. Since you can't prove the GT is faster you now are going to say that it handles and stops better. Oh but that's only if you get the upgraded brakes and tires. So then with base models the Camaro wins, right? Your arguments are ridiculous and irrelevant. They stop with in 5 feet of each other and pull with in .05g and that's with out the Camaro getting the benefit of a track pack and the mustang being upgraded and subsequently costing about $3500 more. Again a drivers race no matter what track you would be on.I agree it's a drivers race in the everyday stock drag race at any given track. I don't agree with the $3,500 price difference because it really doesn't exist in sticker pricing unless other options are also included in the Mustang(like going to premium) with none being added to the Camaro 1SS.

The Camaro SS is faster, but not quicker in manual trans form. It's possibly faster in auto form as well, but nowhere near as quick from all we have seen now.

I'm just curioous where all these Ford :hump: were last year????

the 2011 GT is a nice ride no doubt, but it's not laying the wood to the SS like the SS laid on the GT last year when they had to bring in a 48K GT500 to make it a fair race against the 32K SS.Actually, the differences were about the same in the opposite direction from what I can tell.

However, claiming what you have here, "to make it a fair race" isn't remotely accurate. The GT500 is way more expensive, but being honest and realistic, it SMOKES the Camaro SS right up to its speed limiter(155mph I think). This is hardly a race. Advantage GT500 without question. Ya just have to pay out the yang for it. It doesn't matter what we prefer... Some cars are simply in another ZIP CODE compared to others.

cant wait until the 5.0 gt500 numbers come out... then we get to do this all over again with the upcoming z28/corvette.I think those numbers are already out. The GT500 has run like 12.20's and laid down a very impressive road course effort at VIR, falling between the ZR1 and Corvette GS with a sub 3 minute lap. As for the "upcoming" Z/28, I'm not getting my hopes up as it seems that may not happen till 2016 and probably not before 2015.

Also didn't quote you on it, but how come you say ford doesn't have a track pack, when they advertise a track pack with 3.73's, different wheels, tires, suspension & other shit?Are you sure? I've heard of a Brembo brake package which includes 19" wheels, electronic stability control(ESC), suspension tuning(no different parts from what I've seen) and summer only tires. Gears are a separate option only available with the manual trans. Ford sticker for that package lists for $32,190.00 including the destination charge.

The Camaro comes with the same basic brakes as standard equipment. That lists for $31,795.00(including dest. charge) for a difference of $395(less than 1 monthly payment for those who pay sticker with 0 down, not recommended, btw) in favor of the Camaro 1SS.

The quickest factory stock Mustang GT I've heard of was a M/T with 3.31 gears. There is certainly a stock Camaro SS which has run at very least "quite close" to that, which was 12.58(don't remember the mph). My ONLY concern as to the actual quicker car is the simple fact that no Mustangs have been raced in optimal conditions whereas the Camaro has been out here for over a yr now and hit the track in various weather conditions including optimal. I gotta say, when the cooler months arrive, I'm GOING to be shocked if nobody runs a 12.4 or 3 with a stock GT. Of course, I won't be surprised if many claims are made from those which didn't actually do it. Even so, these two are close enough it will be a drivers race because 1 or 2 tick-tocks won't be enough to make a solid call considering most of these cars are never going to be in the "quickest" race.

So what we're "arguing" is silly... Let folks pick which they want and be done with it. Me... I'm not buying either anytime soon, if ever. I like them both, but I don't like buying new and I have no desire to be in the middle of anyone's pissing contest in an argumentative sense over cars.

Finally, if I am picking an apparent winner in the factory stock performance category right now... I have to admit I give it to the new Mustang. It simply has advantages in more than weight.

It's funny you picked 13.15 as your base time, that was always my dial in when my car was bone stock at a very crappy track cutting high 1.9x short times on stock street tires. Different track, shorter tire, same setup I was running 12.6x's on a better short.

How many GT drivers are going to be able to get into the 12's with a stock car?? About the same amount that can get a 10ss into the 12's. It's a drivers race.

Also didn't quote you on it, but how come you say ford doesn't have a track pack, when they advertise a track pack with 3.73's, different wheels, tires, suspension & other shit?

Because whatever made up the "track pack" in 2010 is standard on the 2011 model, just like whatever was the track pack in 2009 was standard on the 2010 model, there is no more "track pack" option when you build one on the mustang site so that's why I say it was built in and there is no "track pack" there are FRPP parts as usual though.

for the track times, like I said before never seen a 2010 camaro break 13.15 in real life, but have seen two 2011 mustang gt's run 12.7, 12.78, 12.85 and 13 flat. that is just what I have seen with my eyes. Doesn't mean the camaro can't hit those times because I know it has. I am not like the other guy who says if he didn't see it, it didn't happen thats just silly.

I agree it's a drivers race in the everyday stock drag race at any given track. I don't agree with the $3,500 price difference because it really doesn't exist in sticker pricing unless other options are also included in the Mustang(like going to premium) with none being added to the Camaro 1SS.

I pulled that number directly from the Motor Trend article this month and MSRP is the only thing they can not twist. Both cars were similarly equipped, 2SS vs. premium GT. They had to add 3.73 gears, brembo brakes and 19" wheels w/ summer Pirelli's to the GT. Except for gears everything else is standard on the SS. With out brembo's and Pirelli's the GT will not handle and stop better than the SS. MSRP of the SS was $36,465 and the GT was $39,755. That's a diference of $3290.

I pulled that number directly from the Motor Trend article this month and MSRP is the only thing they can not twist. Both cars were similarly equipped, 2SS vs. premium GT. They had to add 3.73 gears, brembo brakes and 19" wheels w/ summer Pirelli's to the GT. Except for gears everything else is standard on the SS. With out brembo's and Pirelli's the GT will not handle and stop better than the SS. MSRP of the SS was $36,465 and the GT was $39,755. That's a diference of $3290.

There is no pirelli tire package on the ford build site that I can see?

Just went to the build site got $35,785, premium GT, 3.73's, 19' rims, brembo package. (what I would personally get)
That's directly from the official ford site.

how did they manage to get over 39k ?

try it for yourself...
http://bp2.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/2011-Ford-Mustang#page=/Models/

They were selling 2010 GT's at a Ford dealership near my house for $35k. You'd think they'd sell them for cheaper to move them. I think it's very conceivable that the '11 GTs sell for high $30s to low $40s esp w/ potential dealership markups.

There is no pirelli tire package on the ford build site that I can see?

Just went to the build site got $35,785, premium GT, 3.73's, 19' rims, brembo package. (what I would personally get)
That's directly from the official ford site.

how did they manage to get over 39k ?

try it for yourself...
http://bp2.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/2011-Ford-Mustang#page=/Models/

I believe the 19" wheel package is the only way to get summer tires. All seasons don't handle as well as the summer Pirelli's. I haven't tried to build one but that's the numbers they have posted. I'm just going off the magazine. The mustang isn't as cheap as it used to be, neither is the Camaro though. The big selling point of the mustang used to be how cheap it was.

I believe the 19" wheel package is the only way to get summer tires. All seasons don't handle as well as the summer Pirelli's. I haven't tried to build one but that's the numbers they have posted. I'm just going off the magazine. The mustang isn't as cheap as it used to be, neither is the Camaro though. The big selling point of the mustang used to be how cheap it was.


That comes with 19' wheels per the site, the all seasons don't handle like the summer tires fort sure but it's definitely not complete crap.

Also you can get a base GT for $29,645 how is that not cheap?

Here is a base GT with brembos and 3.73's as you can see it comes with 19's all for 32.5k that's expensive?
http://i50.tinypic.com/rhlwn6.jpg

I think the prices are good for both cars. However, I would of liked to see more add on options instead of larged clumped together options of shit I dont want or need, just to get one thing I want.

Like how you have to get a $500 security package (for some reason) for adding HID's nice one ford!

The are both priced reasonably, but are not "cheap" anymore.

Look at what you get today for $33,000 then look at what you got in 2002 for $28-30k. Its a bargin compared to 4th gens.

I pulled that number directly from the Motor Trend article this month and MSRP is the only thing they can not twist. Both cars were similarly equipped, 2SS vs. premium GT. They had to add 3.73 gears, brembo brakes and 19" wheels w/ summer Pirelli's to the GT. Except for gears everything else is standard on the SS. With out brembo's and Pirelli's the GT will not handle and stop better than the SS. MSRP of the SS was $36,465 and the GT was $39,755. That's a diference of $3290.Oh... okay then. I never considered that. Honestly, and not JUST to be a smart ass... I never bought any of my vehicles from a magazine...

I just went to both chevrolet.com and fordvehicles.com and priced base packages, then added the Bremo brake package, which includes what I mentioned. I didn't bother with gearing and actually thought whichever gearset would be the same cost... doesn't cost Ford a penny difference... On the other hand, the quickest Mustang I've got reason to believe in(factory stock) was using standard gearing, so I'm not concerned with the rest.

Anyway, once I made the required upgrades to match the brakes, I was done and the price difference was close... AND neither car cost an extra couple grand. Of course, had I used the Camaro 2SS and the Mustang GT Premium, no doubt there's differences. I think I'll go do that now.

Okay, after doing a comparison(2SS vs Premium GT) I found few differences, but each has things the other doesn't, whether or not they're needed/wanted. The Camaro has daytime running lamps, for example. I drove a 95 S-10 with those and the 1st modification made was cutting the wire for that nonsense. After all, I already know how to turn on my lights and see no need to burn out lamps prematurely.

It also has standard heated front seats, and mirrors which are nice when it's snowing or frozen... But I'm not sure I'd drive one of these cars in the snow. My DD has them, but it also has AWD and I drive it in snow whenever necessary. The Mustang doesn't have those as standard, if at all.

The Camaro is available with a power sunroof. The Mustang is available with a full glass roof... negligible either way.

The Camaro has IRS... I don't know many pony car owners who REALLY want that, but there it is(as we all knew). None on the Mustang. The Mustang has a stronger SRA instead.

The Mustang apparently has standard keyfobs for door locks and trunk release, which GM says the Camaro doesn't have. That's handy, I must admit.

The Mustang also has those, shall I say "funky" tail lights and while many don't like the rear, those signals are cool.

The Mustang also has the crazy multi-colored dash.

What I found MOST odd is that when doing the comparison on GM, you can only compare the 2010 Camaro against the 2010 Mustang, but on Ford, that's not a problem.

Also, GM claims the Camaro is even more expensive than Ford says it is AND the Mustang as less expensive(2010<2011 would make that obvious) than Ford says, so the gap looks even worse, Camaro being more expensive on each website. Ford also allows a "comparably equipped" comparison, but it's hardly worth looking at. All it really shows is a comparably equipped price, so you don't really know if they're comparably equipped or not and I think they're NOT, frankly. That's based on the brake components standard on the Camaro, but optional on the GT. Judging by the companies comparison, the Mustang is less expensive even adding the brakes to the GT... I'm not convinced. There are evidently more "options" available for the GT, and, when chosen, they will make it more expensive by quite a bit. I'm a little surprised at the lack of options on the Camaro, and even more dumbfounded by what isn't optional.

its funny, for years people talked shit on the mustangs because they couldnt run for shit without boost. every time there was a debate, the only thing that mattered was moddability and track times. now it seems the camaro guys dont wanna bring up track times, or if they do its only STOCK track times.

new 5.0 mustangs run 10's with boltons, plain and simple. not even ls1's do that.

new mustang> new camaro.

its funny, for years people talked shit on the mustangs because they couldnt run for shit without boost. every time there was a debate, the only thing that mattered was moddability and track times. now it seems the camaro guys dont wanna bring up track times, or if they do its only STOCK track times.

new 5.0 mustangs run 10's with boltons, plain and simple. not even ls1's do that.

new mustang> new camaro.

If nitrous is a bolt on they sure do.

If nitrous is a bolt on they sure do.

A 150 shot is NOT a bolt on and stock internal LS1s have gone 10s....I thought this thread was dead??!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62zJ-4Bo48&feature=player_embedded

all motor, and bolt ons. it runs 10.5 on a 150 shot. they're looking to break 10's with their N/A automatic car this week, they're installing a 4k stall.

theres also another one with a 250 shot and a c4 running 9's.

:smokin:

A 150 shot is NOT a bolt on and stock internal LS1s have gone 10s....I thought this thread was dead??!!

but it took what, 10 years to do it? these cars have been out a few months, and this car still has the stock trans and rear end, and obviously engine. an SI camaro that runs 10's is a 2800lb car with a th350 etc, this is a daily drivable car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62zJ-4Bo48&feature=player_embedded

all motor, and bolt ons. it runs 10.5 on a 150 shot. they're looking to break 10's with their N/A automatic car this week, they're installing a 4k stall.

theres also another one with a 250 shot and a c4 running 9's.

:smokin:

All motor means no nitrous or forced induction so the car you're speaking of does not belong in an "all motor" category.

haha, wtf. the video is clear, and so was i. THE CAR RUNS 10.5 ON A 150 SHOT. THE CAR RUNS 10.97 NATURALLY ASPERATED, ALL MOTOR, NO NIROUS, NO BOOST. its pretty simple really.

but it took what, 10 years to do it? these cars have been out a few months, and this car still has the stock trans and rear end, and obviously engine. an SI camaro that runs 10's is a 2800lb car with a th350 etc, this is a daily drivable car.

You said LS1's haven't run 10s NA did you not? You're wrong and I proved it. Now you make excuses like it's been out this long or is this weight, I'm sure that 2011 is full weight too right? If you think that you're naive. You also posted up a car w/ a C4...a stock trans right? WTF yourself.

Yeah that car has no side mirrors no mufflers and that's just what I can tell from that back....holy crap they undoubtedly have hundreds of lbs out of that thing which makes no sense being a brand new car. And it picked up .4 on a 150 shot? That's abysmal!

You said LS1's haven't run 10s NA did you not? You're wrong and I proved it. Now you make excuses like it's been out this long or is this weight, I'm sure that 2011 is full weight too right? If you think that you're naive. You also posted up a car w/ a C4...a stock trans right? WTF yourself.

ls1's werent running these times when they first came out, but yea you're right, i was wrong about the SI list. theres 3 cars in the 10's, all autos and 3k lbs or less. again, ls1 cars had been out for 7 years before a 10 second SI time was listed.

regaurdless, my point still stands.

new mustang > new camaro.

Yeah that car has no side mirrors no mufflers and that's just what I can tell from that back....holy crap they undoubtedly have hundreds of lbs out of that thing which makes no sense being a brand new car. And it picked up .4 on a 150 shot? That's abysmal!

the car went from 414/ 385 to 469/515 on a 100 shot with a conservative timing table, again it wasnt a 150 shot, i havent looked at their page for a few weeks. they never listed their weight, but im willing to bet they're around 3250 or so, but how does that not make sense? its a shop car.

interesting

Bringing up a dead thread primarily for 1 question. When did nitrous stop being a bolt on? I've "bolted on" every single nitrous kit I've ever had, and in far less time than it takes to replace an intake, not to mention something like a set of gears, in many cases. Then again, around here, complete head swaps are considered "bolt ons" by many, so nitrous certainly qualifies. To me, a bolt on has always been something that is exactly that, bolted on. Anything requiring work to the internals is not a bolt on, but anything that physically bolts on should meet that term, including power adders.

Personally, I'm not interested in really high 10's from a car missing it's mirrors and who knows what else, even N/A. Those guys clearly had a single agenda(which they reached) and that's fine, but it isn't for me. That said, they did it and that's that. Now they're(someone) already in the 9's and that is simply astounding in my book. The only other car I've heard of to reach that level so quickly is another Mustang, the 2003 Cobra. I can't recall any others having done so in just a couple-three months. KUDOS for doing it, but I'll keep my mirrors ON the body, thanks. Whether or not it's using a power adder, there's no denying the Mustang has its place on the track. To my knowledge, of the "pony cars" in the world, the very quickest door slammers(possibly quickest 20 or more) are Mustangs. That's just the way it is. They've been running mid 6's since 2001 and it hasn't mattered to me beyond the "COOL" factor. Oh well. Who really cares? Is a bragging right THAT important?

Bringing up a dead thread primarily for 1 question. When did nitrous stop being a bolt on? I've "bolted on" every single nitrous kit I've ever had, and in far less time than it takes to replace an intake, not to mention something like a set of gears, in many cases. Then again, around here, complete head swaps are considered "bolt ons" by many, so nitrous certainly qualifies. To me, a bolt on has always been something that is exactly that, bolted on. Anything requiring work to the internals is not a bolt on, but anything that physically bolts on should meet that term, including power adders.

Personally, I'm not interested in really high 10's from a car missing it's mirrors and who knows what else, even N/A. Those guys clearly had a single agenda(which they reached) and that's fine, but it isn't for me. That said, they did it and that's that. Now they're(someone) already in the 9's and that is simply astounding in my book. The only other car I've heard of to reach that level so quickly is another Mustang, the 2003 Cobra. I can't recall any others having done so in just a couple-three months. KUDOS for doing it, but I'll keep my mirrors ON the body, thanks. Whether or not it's using a power adder, there's no denying the Mustang has its place on the track. To my knowledge, of the "pony cars" in the world, the very quickest door slammers(possibly quickest 20 or more) are Mustangs. That's just the way it is. They've been running mid 6's since 2001 and it hasn't mattered to me beyond the "COOL" factor. Oh well. Who really cares? Is a bragging right THAT important?

LOl are we really back to the nitrous is a bolt on subject? Superchargers and turbos are bolt-ons? I think the rest of the world....except for fdjizms faggot ass would disagree with you.

ls1's werent running these times when they first came out, but yea you're right, i was wrong about the SI list. theres 3 cars in the 10's, all autos and 3k lbs or less. again, ls1 cars had been out for 7 years before a 10 second SI time was listed.

regaurdless, my point still stands.

new mustang > new camaro.

So because someone stripped a brand new car earlier makes it better? If you ask me, it's more impressive that someone could do this w/ 15 yr old technology as opposed to "cutting edge" technology.

the car went from 414/ 385 to 469/515 on a 100 shot with a conservative timing table, again it wasnt a 150 shot, i havent looked at their page for a few weeks. they never listed their weight, but im willing to bet they're around 3250 or so, but how does that not make sense? its a shop car.

Exactly, it's a shop car and not respresenting what most people will be doing w/ these cars.

LOl are we really back to the nitrous is a bolt on subject? Superchargers and turbos are bolt-ons? I think the rest of the world....except for fdjizms faggot ass would disagree with you. It was called a bolt on when I started racing and I can't think of a single way to use it without bolting it on... Can you? If you don't have to rebuild the engine to install it, that makes it a bolt on part to me. I'm not saying it need not be listed as a modification under "power adder" at all, but it's still a bolt on.
So because someone stripped a brand new car earlier makes it better? If you ask me, it's more impressive that someone could do this w/ 15 yr old technology as opposed to "cutting edge" technology.15yr old technology? People have done it for decades now, long before anyone ever began designing the LS1. To me, it has little or nothing to do with new, cutting edge, etc. It's more of a thought on want... If someone wants to, that's fine by me, but I won't do it. Still, there's no legitimate reason to knock them and there is a reason to congratulate them. When the 1st LS1 car broke 10's, bet your arse there were CONGRATS all around. Getting there had NOTHING to do with the age of the car, and much to do with finding the right combo, which is why the new Mustang is where it is. People find the right combo pretty quickly, to make them run well.

Exactly, it's a shop car and not respresenting what most people will be doing w/ these cars.Most people who own most cars won't be running 10's, let alone 9's. The idea that it can be done matters anyway. How many of the quickest cars of any brand or version aren't also shop cars or fully sponsored race cars? Should all those really fast cars be disregarded simply because most people won't repeat the performance?

It was called a bolt on when I started racing and I can't think of a single way to use it without bolting it on... Can you? If you don't have to rebuild the engine to install it, that makes it a bolt on part to me. I'm not saying it need not be listed as a modification under "power adder" at all, but it's still a bolt on.
15yr old technology? People have done it for decades now, long before anyone ever began designing the LS1. To me, it has little or nothing to do with new, cutting edge, etc. It's more of a thought on want... If someone wants to, that's fine by me, but I won't do it. Still, there's no legitimate reason to knock them and there is a reason to congratulate them. When the 1st LS1 car broke 10's, bet your arse there were CONGRATS all around. Getting there had NOTHING to do with the age of the car, and much to do with finding the right combo, which is why the new Mustang is where it is. People find the right combo pretty quickly, to make them run well.

Most people who own most cars won't be running 10's, let alone 9's. The idea that it can be done matters anyway. How many of the quickest cars of any brand or version aren't also shop cars or fully sponsored race cars? Should all those really fast cars be disregarded simply because most people won't repeat the performance?

I'm not knocking on the Evolution car or the 5.0 at all for that matter, but nitrous is a "power adder" not a "bolt-on". Sure, a supercharger bolts to the engine as well, but that doesn't put it in the bolt-on category.

I'm not knocking on the Evolution car or the 5.0 at all for that matter, but nitrous is a "power adder" not a "bolt-on". Sure, a supercharger bolts to the engine as well, but that doesn't put it in the bolt-on category.The difference is, turbos(which I prefer personally) and S/C's generally require oil plumbing, more labor time, and each effectively adds displacement to any given engine, particularly a screw type supercharger. Nitrous just kinda hangs out and creates oxygen.

As I said, it is a power adder, but it still bolts on and most kits over the yrs didn't require any cutting or drilling into engine parts, though today several do. It is both a power adder and a bolt on. The others, at least to some degree, can be called the same, but they also tend to do better with lower compression and stronger built pistons(more than nitrous in most cases).

Some here consider head replacement a bolt on... and I suppose it is, though most are either rated as better than factory by design, or are ported. Any ported head isn't a bolt on to me, as it's been modified(often extensively) vs. stock. How many times have you heard "cam only" and later found that meant "full bolt on parts" and even replacement heads to go along with that "cam only" build? I'm just sayin'... people have different ways of labeling different builds.

i wouldnt call nitrous a "bolt on" but its a very, very simple, quick way to get 200hp.
on the "bolt on" list, nitrous isnt on there.

"Our 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L 4V Automatic running 11.5's all night long N/A with Full Interior(Heated/Powered Driver and Passenger Leather Seats, and Navigation!"
....for all the nay sayers.

this is the first aftermarket converter in these cars too. its only cutting a 1.6 60', there should be more in it than that.

this is the first aftermarket converter in these cars too. its only cutting a 1.6 60', there should be more in it than that.

:eyes:

The car has been out for 6 years. The motor and trans are new. There is a lot more involved in running good E.T.'s than just a motor. The stock list and local test and tunes are showing what this car really is and the mustang isn't blowing away the Camaro by any means.

...?

yea, theres suspension out there, but thats already done to the car. it went from a 1.75 60' to a 1.6, but the stick cars cutting a 1.4.

:eyes:

The car has been out for 6 years. The motor and trans are new. There is a lot more involved in running good E.T.'s than just a motor. The stock list and local test and tunes are showing what this car really is and the mustang isn't blowing away the Camaro by any means.

A friend has both a '10 Camaro SS and an '11 5.0. The Mustang kicks the Camaro's ass mod for mod. Personally, I prefer the looks of the 5.0 and the drive train of the Camaro.

damn 2010 SS and a 2011 5.0.....must be nice

A friend has both a '10 Camaro SS and an '11 5.0. The Mustang kicks the Camaro's ass mod for mod. Personally, I prefer the looks of the 5.0 and the drive train of the Camaro.

Its physically impossible that "The Mustang kicks the Camaro's ass mod for mod", wont, will not happen. The 5.0 has higher compression, headers from the factory, electric power steering, cam phasers for all four cam,; how much more juice can you squeeze out. You cam it and there goes the advantage of the VCT, remove the cats and throw a catback on it and thats all you need for the exhaust. Heads? Yeah these are fords HIGHEST flowing heads EVER, and its not like as if its a LS engine with all the support for aftermarket heads. Hell trickflows latest head for the 2v which flow about as much as a set of 243's is like gods gift to the modulars. The only replacement for displacement is boost and that is the only way the 5.0 will keep up. I own a mod motor i know, LS vs mod, mod for mod, LS is one top, save for the supercharged ones.

Its physically impossible that "The Mustang kicks the Camaro's ass mod for mod", wont, will not happen. The 5.0 has higher compression, headers from the factory, electric power steering, cam phasers for all four cam,; how much more juice can you squeeze out. You cam it and there goes the advantage of the VCT, remove the cats and throw a catback on it and thats all you need for the exhaust. Heads? Yeah these are fords HIGHEST flowing heads EVER, and its not like as if its a LS engine with all the support for aftermarket heads. Hell trickflows latest head for the 2v which flow about as much as a set of 243's is like gods gift to the modulars. The only replacement for displacement is boost and that is the only way the 5.0 will keep up. I own a mod motor i know, LS vs mod, mod for mod, LS is one top, save for the supercharged ones.

Double face palm... yes the ls3 keeps up with the 5.0, but the weight advantage the 11gt has over the 5th gen camaro is what gives it the edge. there is one running 9's bolton only with a big shot! No 5th gen camaro will do that bolton only... it is what it is. Sometimes you just need to give credit where credit is do! I agree the ls3 is on top, but comparing platforms, FORD wins hands down in this case!

Double face palm... yes the ls3 keeps up with the 5.0, but the weight advantage the 11gt has over the 5th gen camaro is what gives it the edge. there is one running 9's bolton only with a big shot! No 5th gen camaro will do that bolton only... it is what it is. Sometimes you just need to give credit where credit is do! I agree the ls3 is on top, but comparing platforms, FORD wins hands down in this case!

Yes the 11 gt does have a superior platform, thats obvious. Yes a 11 gt has ran 9's, not bolt-on only, its got a C4, trans-brake, full bolt-ons and a monster shot of nitrous, nothing to brag about. I can show you a 6.0 liter truck with boltons too and a monster shot of nitrous running half a seond slower, nothing to brag about.

but you cant show me a camaro doing the same? 0_o

and ANYONE on the bolt on list (4th gen) with an A3 (th400/th350) isnt a bolt on car anymore? wtf?

Yes the 11 gt does have a superior platform, thats obvious. Yes a 11 gt has ran 9's, not bolt-on only, its got a C4, trans-brake, full bolt-ons and a monster shot of nitrous, nothing to brag about. I can show you a 6.0 liter truck with boltons too and a monster shot of nitrous running half a seond slower, nothing to brag about.Why is it that with some people, what is simply cannot be good enough? For people like you, it's ALL about a comparison, but only one in which you get to decide what to compare. This isn't about aspects, it's about an entire package. To date, the new Mustang simply IS the better package as compared to the new Camaro. Let it be what it is. We don't care about what a truck did, better or worse, or what you personally think is possible.

Yes the 11 gt does have a superior platform, thats obvious. Yes a 11 gt has ran 9's, not bolt-on only, its got a C4, trans-brake, full bolt-ons and a monster shot of nitrous, nothing to brag about. I can show you a 6.0 liter truck with boltons too and a monster shot of nitrous running half a seond slower, nothing to brag about.

how does c4 trans make it not bolton only? The engine has no internal modifications? How is mid 9's nothing to brag about? Ok great you can show me a truck with boltons and a big shot runs a half second slower... ummm Im not sure what planet your from but picking up a half second in the 1/4 is a whole different level when your talkin sub 10 sec. cars! On top of that you had to bring a truck into this debate:hijack: because you couldnt find a 5th gen any faster lol. Great comeback...Fail!

Lawl!

i think he's admitting that a 4500lb truck with a 6.0 and shitty weight dist. is faster than a 5th gen.

but you cant show me a camaro doing the same? 0_o
Nope i cant, stupid irs, heavy car, but a superior engine that respond better to mods. I cant wait to see how many more "bolt on" gt run 10's also.
and ANYONE on the bolt on list (4th gen) with an A3 (th400/th350) isnt a bolt on car anymore? wtf?

Boltons include, intake, exhaust, tune, etc. Stuff that can be easily swapped out by joe blow in his front yard.

Why is it that with some people, what is simply cannot be good enough? For people like you, it's ALL about a comparison, but only one in which you get to decide what to compare. This isn't about aspects, it's about an entire package. To date, the new Mustang simply IS the better package as compared to the new Camaro. Let it be what it is. We don't care about what a truck did, better or worse, or what you personally think is possible.

When did i say that the camaro is better.

how does c4 trans make it not bolton only? The engine has no internal modifications? How is mid 9's nothing to brag about? Ok great you can show me a truck with boltons and a big shot runs a half second slower... ummm Im not sure what planet your from but picking up a half second in the 1/4 is a whole different level when your talkin sub 10 sec. cars! On top of that you had to bring a truck into this debate:hijack: because you couldnt find a 5th gen any faster lol. Great comeback...Fail!

Im gonna bolt in a BBC 468 into my moms saturn, is that a bolton too?

Lawl!

i think he's admitting that a 4500lb truck with a 6.0 and shitty weight dist. is faster than a 5th gen.

Google it, DBRODS on ls1truck.com, heads, cam, nitrous and runs mi 10's. Its all in the setup, and its clear that these camaros were not setup like the mustang was. Old school, gutted car, trans brake, stall, nitrous, drag suspension, its gonna run.

so you're telling me a CLUTCH isnt a "bolt on" a TORQUE CONVERTER? A BUILT TRANSMISSION of the stock type? an m6 to a4 conversion must not be a bolt on either.

you're an idiot and cant accept the fact that the cars a 9 second bolt on/spray car.

what if a 4th gen has a 9 inch rear end and a stock internal, bolt on motor?

so you're telling me a CLUTCH isnt a "bolt on" a TORQUE CONVERTER? A BUILT TRANSMISSION of the stock type? an m6 to a4 conversion must not be a bolt on either.

you're an idiot and cant accept the fact that the cars a 9 second bolt on/spray car.

what if a 4th gen has a 9 inch rear end and a stock internal, bolt on motor?

:werd:

so you're telling me a CLUTCH isnt a "bolt on" a TORQUE CONVERTER? A BUILT TRANSMISSION of the stock type? an m6 to a4 conversion must not be a bolt on either.

you're an idiot and cant accept the fact that the cars a 9 second bolt on/spray car.

what if a 4th gen has a 9 inch rear end and a stock internal, bolt on motor?
:barf:

Yeah i guess since your taking it literally, then i guess everyones car is just a bolton, since you did bolt in that 414ci into your SS, you did bolt in your twin turbos into your Z06, you did bolt in the subframe into the FD rx-7 for the LS2, according to you there all boltons. A C4 with a transbrake a bolton? A direct port nitrous kit a bolton? Ha.


Quit falling for the hype, there has never been a car go this fast in such a short period of time with just "boltons". There is nothing special about the 2011, just a typical 3500lb car, with a decent engine, and a good suspension. Its does not have some magical way to EASILY get more power, unlike the terminators, or shelbys, or the big CI F-bodys. Maybe when everybody and there grandma runs 10's with just boltons N/A, then i will believe it. Until then i keep i will keep my opinion, if it does happen then I will swallow my words and say that im wrong. For example all the 4th gen's similiar weight, and with just boltons (real boltons, full exhaust, lid, etc) they put out the same power as the 2011, but you dont see them running 10's with a th400 and no spray do you, usually low 12's, high 11's. Too much hype, all built by shops, shops that were racing to get the next fastest number, whats next first 2011 in the 8's? Not even the 03/04 cobras got to those numbers as fast. Maybe if the 5.0 had boost, or was bigger (maybe they shoulda dropped the 6.2 in it, then i wouldnt be arguing) then it would be believable. Though the mustang as of right now IS superior to the camaro in every single way, except for the engine. z

:barf:

Yeah i guess since your taking it literally, then i guess everyones car is just a bolton, since you did bolt in that 414ci into your SS, you did bolt in your twin turbos into your Z06, you did bolt in the subframe into the FD rx-7 for the LS2, according to you there all boltons. A C4 with a transbrake a bolton? A direct port nitrous kit a bolton? Ha.


Quit falling for the hype, there has never been a car go this fast in such a short period of time with just "boltons". There is nothing special about the 2011, just a typical 3500lb car, with a decent engine, and a good suspension. Its does not have some magical way to EASILY get more power, unlike the terminators, or shelbys, or the big CI F-bodys. Maybe when everybody and there grandma runs 10's with just boltons N/A, then i will believe it. Until then i keep i will keep my opinion, if it does happen then I will swallow my words and say that im wrong. For example all the 4th gen's similiar weight, and with just boltons (real boltons, full exhaust, lid, etc) they put out the same power as the 2011, but you dont see them running 10's with a th400 and no spray do you, usually low 12's, high 11's. Too much hype, all built by shops, shops that were racing to get the next fastest number, whats next first 2011 in the 8's? Not even the 03/04 cobras got to those numbers as fast. Maybe if the 5.0 had boost, or was bigger (maybe they shoulda dropped the 6.2 in it, then i wouldnt be arguing) then it would be believable. Though the mustang as of right now IS superior to the camaro in every single way, except for the engine. z

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1129010-quickest-stock-internals-list-11-74-bump.html

5 or 6 cars on there either read a3 or th400. BUT THEY'RE CHEATERZ! NO 3WAAAAAATYYYESXX!!!ONE!11! :eyes:

you're STUPID. a 4th gen ls1 camaro with FULL bolt ons, and an EWP would be a "FREAK" in order to lay down as much as the 2011 5.0 does STOCK. the 2011 puts down 360-380 100% STOCK. with bolt ons they lay down 420+whp.... WITH JUST CAI, FULL EXHAUST AND A TUNE.

420whp+3200lbs+traction=10's.
10's + a c4/brake and a 250 shot + traction = mid 9's. GTFO N00B.
:moon::owned:

not only that, but this car and engine (as a combo) are better than anything thats been in an f body aside from maybe a l88/th400 first gen.

the car is running 9's with the STOCK motor, from intake to oil pan, a 3 speed auto, and the stock rear end.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1129010-quickest-stock-internals-list-11-74-bump.html

5 or 6 cars on there either read a3 or th400. BUT THEY'RE CHEATERZ! NO 3WAAAAAATYYYESXX!!!ONE!11! :eyes:

you're STUPID. a 4th gen ls1 camaro with FULL bolt ons, and an EWP would be a "FREAK" in order to lay down as much as the 2011 5.0 does STOCK. the 2011 puts down 360-380 100% STOCK. with bolt ons they lay down 420+whp.... WITH JUST CAI, FULL EXHAUST AND A TUNE.

420whp+3200lbs+traction=10's.
10's + a c4/brake and a 250 shot + traction = mid 9's. GTFO N00B.
:moon::owned:

Hype? First off aint no 2011 GT REALLY spitting out that power, ALL cars nowadays are SAE certified to put out 5hp more OR less than what there manufacturers suggest. In other words, a 2011 GT puts out 412 at the crank, plain and simple, this isnt 1960, this isnt 2003 with the cobra, or 1998 with the 4th gens. Why does it put out the power that they show, because the 2011 does NOT have a TRUE 1:1 gear, 4th in there car is like 3rd in others. 412 minus 61hp(15% loss), equals 350whp, same number that my friends LS1 gto put down with intake, exhaust, UD pulley, and tune on TSP's dyno. But what does that mean anyways as a DYNO is only a tuning tool. Camaros WILL put down 10 more hp, on the same DYNO during the same conditions, with both dynoing in a 1:1 (or close) gear, and in the same conditions, add boltons, tune, to both and there will be a bigger difference than just 10hp. Im a noob :angel:.

I wonder how many eaton+bolton only term cobras are in the 9's.

you just compleatly dodged the arguement. last time i checked, we werent arguing variances in dyno numbers.

"For example all the 4th gen's similiar weight, and with just boltons (real boltons, full exhaust, lid, etc) they put out the same power as the 2011, but you dont see them running 10's with a th400 and no spray do you, usually low 12's, high 11's"

not only that, but the car that ran 10.97 was a 6 speed car, not an auto. you're right about most bolt on 4th gens running high - mid 11's with bolt ons though. so tell me, why is it SO unbeleivable that a car with 50-60 MORE whp runs 6-7 tenths faster?

oh, thats right. im arguing with somone whos clueless.
"Camaros WILL put down 10 more hp, on the same DYNO during the same conditions, with both dynoing in a 1:1 (or close) gear, and in the same conditions, boltons, tune, and there will be a bigger difference than just 10hp."

now you're telling me camaros make MORE horsepower than mustangs but are slower?

you just compleatly dodged the arguement. last time i checked, we werent arguing variances in dyno numbers.

"For example all the 4th gen's similiar weight, and with just boltons (real boltons, full exhaust, lid, etc) they put out the same power as the 2011, but you dont see them running 10's with a th400 and no spray do you, usually low 12's, high 11's"

not only that, but the car that ran 10.97 was a 6 speed car, not an auto. you're right about most bolt on 4th gens running high - mid 11's with bolt ons though. so tell me, why is it SO unbeleivable that a car with 50-60 MORE whp runs 6-7 tenths faster?

oh, thats right. im arguing with somone whos clueless.
"Camaros WILL put down 10 more hp, on the same DYNO during the same conditions, with both dynoing in a 1:1 (or close) gear, and in the same conditions, boltons, tune, and there will be a bigger difference than just 10hp."

now you're telling me camaros make MORE horsepower than mustangs but are slower?

:D Its unbelievable because that is on the lucky side of what it should run, something here DOES NOT add up, and if it DID, its all just hype. I tried to compare that, and i might have compared the wrong cars, maybe i should have said cammed as well. But thing is yall are not comparing them right. To answer my question (about the cobra), there is only ONE car in the 9's with those mods, why is it that a NA car with about the same weight did it with less mods in about 2 months since its release, hmm? Dont be so gullible. So far EVERYTHING is going perfect for the mustang, until everyone figures out that it is just another car, not gods gift to car buffs. Manual or auto it dont matter, get the car to launch right and anyone who can shift can get any to run what a auto can. A camaro is slower than a mustang, BUT puts out more power than a mustang, thats a fact, not my opinion.

dude...jeffery....you have a 15 second eclipse? and you come on LS1tech bragging about the 5.0 mustang? did you get slapped on the street by one???

um....its got a 5.0! lmao!


so what, congrats ford! took 40 years to make a worthy street mustang again! im glad to see them on the street! glad to have some competition out there instead of mustang owners doing the ole ricer fly by....

:D Its unbelievable because that is on the lucky side of what it should run, something here DOES NOT add up, and if it DID, its all just hype. I tried to compare that, and i might have compared the wrong cars, maybe i should have said cammed as well. But thing is yall are not comparing them right. To answer my question (about the cobra), there is only ONE car in the 9's with those mods, why is it that a NA car with about the same weight did it with less mods in about 2 months since its release, hmm? Dont be so gullible. So far EVERYTHING is going perfect for the mustang, until everyone figures out that it is just another car, not gods gift to car buffs. Manual or auto it dont matter, get the car to launch right and anyone who can shift can get any to run what a auto can. A camaro is slower than a mustang, BUT puts out more power than a mustang, thats a fact, not my opinion.


if you take a car thats running 10's, and shove 250whp of nitrous down its throat, you're telling me its hard to beleive it'd run 9's? you're an idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62zJ-4Bo48


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZopOJ4Bd88&feature=player_embedded

the 9 second car makes 6xx at the wheels.

those cars are all fake and they have turbos and nitrous and big block chevys.

dude...jeffery....you have a 15 second eclipse? and you come on LS1tech bragging about the 5.0 mustang? did you get slapped on the street by one???

um....its got a 5.0! lmao!


so what, congrats ford! took 40 years to make a worthy street mustang again! im glad to see them on the street! glad to have some competition out there instead of mustang owners doing the ole ricer fly by....

Um, maybe you should reread my posts.


As for the mustang, we'll just wait and see how many more can duplicate these same results.

Um, maybe you should reread my posts.


As for the mustang, we'll just wait and see how many more can duplicate these same results.

hey im all for it. just saying a 9.97 on nitrous is fast but still over a half second slower than a stock bottom end ls1 on nitrous. not to mention there are stock bottom end ls1's running 9's with NO nitrous. not to mention this is on "new" technology (15 years ago)....AND still on technology from over 50 years ago...its a pushrod motor man. so in the end what really is impressive?

i've seen your posts and it only seems you have your panties in a bunch about the new 5.0 whippin on the new camaro...big woop, i think many can agree that building a 4000+lb car with 426hp wasnt a super smart move by gm.

im all for the new mustang, and im not a ford fan. like i said, im glad they finally came out with a mustang with some potential....and one that doesnt need a supercharger to be fast...

Yes the 11 gt does have a superior platform, thats obvious. Yes a 11 gt has ran 9's, not bolt-on only, its got a C4, trans-brake, full bolt-ons and a monster shot of nitrous, nothing to brag about. I can show you a 6.0 liter truck with boltons too and a monster shot of nitrous running half a seond slower, nothing to brag about.

Boltons include, intake, exhaust, tune, etc. Stuff that can be easily swapped out by joe blow in his front yard.




Google it, DBRODS on ls1truck.com, heads, cam, nitrous and runs mi 10's. Its all in the setup, and its clear that these camaros were not setup like the mustang was. Old school, gutted car, trans brake, stall, nitrous, drag suspension, its gonna run.

OK so now your saying 2 dfferent things.. Guess im the only one to catch it. 1st you said the truck was a 6.0 with bolt ons and a monster shot of NOS. Then KMRACER made a comment bout that same 6.0 truck and your response was google it the truck has """HEADS AND CAM""" with that NOS shot which means its NOT bolt ons only.... :bang::eyes:

So it sounds like your hating on the Stang and coming up with every reason to make it look unimpressive! I agree the ls3 is better mod for mod as far as producing power (bigger displacement) but ford has the better overall package with weight being the main one.. Give credit when credit is due.

hey im all for it. just saying a 9.97 on nitrous is fast but still over a half second slower than a stock bottom end ls1 on nitrous. not to mention there are stock bottom end ls1's running 9's with NO nitrous. not to mention this is on "new" technology (15 years ago)....AND still on technology from over 50 years ago...its a pushrod motor man. so in the end what really is impressive?

i've seen your posts and it only seems you have your panties in a bunch about the new 5.0 whippin on the new camaro...big woop, i think many can agree that building a 4000+lb car with 426hp wasnt a super smart move by gm.

im all for the new mustang, and im not a ford fan. like i said, im glad they finally came out with a mustang with some potential....and one that doesnt need a supercharger to be fast...

Thats kinda what ive been trying to say BUT, thing is what ive been trying to say is that what this car has done isnt something magical, quit falling for the hype. I give props to ford for finally making a good N/A mustang, took em 20yrs, last car to come close was the foxbody. I really dont care if the mustang is better, i aint no fanboy for no company, i actually am a tech for ford and have driven the new 2011 and new camaro, i like both, stick the LS3 in the mustang and ill buy it. There isnt anything wrong with pushrods, and in actuality OHC is just as old as the pushrod, both have there pros and cons, neither is better than the other.
.
OK so now your saying 2 dfferent things.. Guess im the only one to catch it. 1st you said the truck was a 6.0 with bolt ons and a monster shot of NOS. Then KMRACER made a comment bout that same 6.0 truck and your response was google it the truck has """HEADS AND CAM""" with that NOS shot which means its NOT bolt ons only.... :bang::eyes:

So it sounds like your hating on the Stang and coming up with every reason to make it look unimpressive! I agree the ls3 is better mod for mod as far as producing power (bigger displacement) but ford has the better overall package with weight being the main one.. Give credit when credit is due.

I might have bitten my tongue on that one, but i was also being sarcastic as to the bolton thing. Once again though im not hating, ive given credit where it is due, and i have not given credit where it is not due, you can go back and read it, i said what the mustang is and ISNT. Good luck to all those that are gonna try and take a 2011 GT with just boltons and run 10's.

I might have bitten my tongue on that one, but i was also being sarcastic as to the bolton thing. Once again though im not hating, ive given credit where it is due, and i have not given credit where it is not due, you can go back and read it, i said what the mustang is and ISNT. Good luck to all those that are gonna try and take a 2011 GT with just boltons and run 10's.

You never gave any credit where it was do... You keep makin excuses and lies to support your ignorant claim... move on! You know exactly what "bolton" only means. The fact is, you couldnt find a 5th gen thats running the times of the 11gt mod for mod! It's not going to happen, physics won't allow it...

Thats kinda what ive been trying to say BUT, thing is what ive been trying to say is that what this car has done isnt something magical, quit falling for the hype. I give props to ford for finally making a good N/A mustang, took em 20yrs, last car to come close was the foxbody. I really dont care if the mustang is better, i aint no fanboy for no company, i actually am a tech for ford and have driven the new 2011 and new camaro, i like both, stick the LS3 in the mustang and ill buy it. There isnt anything wrong with pushrods, and in actuality OHC is just as old as the pushrod, both have there pros and cons, neither is better than the other.
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I might have bitten my tongue on that one, but i was also being sarcastic as to the bolton thing. Once again though im not hating, ive given credit where it is due, and i have not given credit where it is not due, you can go back and read it, i said what the mustang is and ISNT. Good luck to all those that are gonna try and take a 2011 GT with just boltons and run 10's.

Sorry but there is no such thing as bein sarcastic when it comes to something like that. Fact is u tried to make it seem like all it took was bolt ons to make that 6.0 truck run mid 10s and comparing it to the 5.0 and saying its unimpressive when indeed the truck did have heads and cam... Bolt ons only and heads and cam is totally different and thats wayyy beyond being sarcastic... You knew exactly what you were trying to say until I caught you up. You were trying to say a SUPER HEAVY truck with bolt ons and a NOS shot almost ran the same as the 5.0 with the mods...:gtfo:

You never gave any credit where it was do... You keep makin excuses and lies to support your ignorant claim... move on! You know exactly what "bolton" only means. The fact is, you couldnt find a 5th gen thats running the times of the 11gt mod for mod! It's not going to happen, physics won't allow it...

Can you read? No i cant find a 5th gen or any other car that has done what the GT has with the mods in such a short period of time. What it has done is hard to believe, but then again you think about and then reality comes in and shows that all the cars that did it were shop cars, setup correct, with what you and them boltons, showing the ugly that this isnt nothing special and yes it is superior to other but not to the point that you think.

Sorry but there is no such thing as bein sarcastic when it comes to something like that. Fact is u tried to make it seem like all it took was bolt ons to make that 6.0 truck run mid 10s and comparing it to the 5.0 and saying its unimpressive when indeed the truck did have heads and cam... Bolt ons only and heads and cam is totally different and thats wayyy beyond being sarcastic... You knew exactly what you were trying to say until I caught you up. You were trying to say a SUPER HEAVY truck with bolt ons and a NOS shot almost ran the same as the 5.0 with the mods...:gtfo:

Ok i guess i was wrong, i shouldnt have used that comparison and there was a fault in my post.

hey im all for it. just saying a 9.97 on nitrous is fast but still over a half second slower than a stock bottom end ls1 on nitrous. not to mention there are stock bottom end ls1's running 9's with NO nitrous. not to mention this is on "new" technology (15 years ago)....AND still on technology from over 50 years ago...its a pushrod motor man. so in the end what really is impressive?

i've seen your posts and it only seems you have your panties in a bunch about the new 5.0 whippin on the new camaro...big woop, i think many can agree that building a 4000+lb car with 426hp wasnt a super smart move by gm.

im all for the new mustang, and im not a ford fan. like i said, im glad they finally came out with a mustang with some potential....and one that doesnt need a supercharger to be fast...

yea, i agree, but all those cars are HCI. this thing doesnt even have a throttle body bolted to it. its stock from intake to oil pan, im not sure i've seen an ls1 doing that, and for it to happen in such a short amout of time is impressive.

Can you read? No i cant find a 5th gen or any other car that has done what the GT has with the mods in such a short period of time. What it has done is hard to believe, but then again you think about and then reality comes in and shows that all the cars that did it were shop cars, setup correct, with what you and them boltons, showing the ugly that this isnt nothing special and yes it is superior to other but not to the point that you think.


that ALL the record breaking cars ever are. every shop wants to be able to advertise "first 2011 mustang in the 10's" first 09 gt500 in the 9's" "first 2003 cobra in the 10's"

thats what makes them money. i cant think of a single camaro in the 9's with bolt ons only and a big shot, and the platforms been around since 1993.

that ALL the record breaking cars ever are. every shop wants to be able to advertise "first 2011 mustang in the 10's" first 09 gt500 in the 9's" "first 2003 cobra in the 10's"

thats what makes them money. i cant think of a single camaro in the 9's with bolt ons only and a big shot, and the platforms been around since 1993.

You definitely are not looking.

find one. i think theres ONE in the 10's thats SI all motor.

find one. i think theres ONE in the 10's thats SI all motor.

Go to TSP's page theres a red SS, stock bottom end, heads/cam, can you tell me what it runs?

"bolt ons only and a big shot"

that doesnt mean HEADS CAM STOCK BOTTOM.

Go to TSP's page theres a red SS, stock bottom end, heads/cam, can you tell me what it runs?

And its NA...LOL.

Give him his crow.

Unless he is going to try and tell us he would take the 80-100 hp gain of h/c over a big shot of nitrous...LOL

"bolt ons only and a big shot"

that doesnt mean HEADS CAM STOCK BOTTOM.

You asked for 10's NA, i gave you 9's stock bottom end NA, no nitrous.

I'm with kmracer its probably a little hype, and some shop exposure in there. its way good advertisement. but why is this boiling down to h/c cars vs. stock gt heads. for shits sake its a 4v motor no doubt they probably flow way more than any gm head out now stock for stock. not to mention 412 HP is impressive, they put some good thought into that car.

I'm with kmracer its probably a little hype, and some shop exposure in there. its way good advertisement. but why is this boiling down to h/c cars vs. stock gt heads. for shits sake its a 4v motor no doubt they probably flow way more than any gm head out now stock for stock. not to mention 412 HP is impressive, they put some good thought into that car.

Can you read? No i cant find a 5th gen or any other car that has done what the GT has with the mods in such a short period of time. What it has done is hard to believe, but then again you think about and then reality comes in and shows that all the cars that did it were shop cars, setup correct, with what you and them boltons, showing the ugly that this isnt nothing special and yes it is superior to other but not to the point that you think.



Ok i guess i was wrong, i shouldnt have used that comparison and there was a fault in my post.

cool.. no prob.. at least your man enough to admit it instead of trying to argue/debate it like some ppl do on these boards lol :nod:

Can you read? No i cant find a 5th gen or any other car that has done what the GT has with the mods in such a short period of time. What it has done is hard to believe, but then again you think about and then reality comes in and shows that all the cars that did it were shop cars, setup correct, with what you and them boltons, showing the ugly that this isnt nothing special and yes it is superior to other but not to the point that you think.

Can you comprehend? The reason you have only seen shop cars doing this because the 11gt just came out recently... You really think people are standing in line to buy this car and put it in the 10's or 9's the first month they own it? Give it some time bro. Shops are doing this out of the gate to promote business, just like they did on the 5th gen, then buyers will follow suit after they see the results...


Ok i guess i was wrong, i shouldnt have used that comparison and there was a fault in my post.

Yes you were wrong, there's no guessing about it. Atleast you admit it tho!!

You asked for 10's NA, i gave you 9's stock bottom end NA, no nitrous.

ok, so you can give me that but not a BOLT ON CAR in the 10's? weird huh.

A simple bolt on car with 400 lbs removed running race gas/race gas tune among a long list of other mods. Bolt on only motor yes. Bolt on only car...hell no. Replacing the clutch and posi unit is not a bolt on. Ripping 400 pounds out of a car is not a simple bolt on procedure (more like bolt out lol)
NA ls1's with only bolt ons (to the motor) have hit 10.6.

11.4 with M6.

Check the fast list.

You mustang guys get awful misleading when you go around saying 10 second bolt on car. Idiots are running around on the web thinking they can put an exhaust and tune on a new mustang and go run some 10's.

I know thats not logical for most people who know a thing or two about cars...and I understand what you mean by bolt on (for the motor obviously) But have you seen some of the horse shit mustang fanboys are saying these days? I know it goes both ways but the 10 second bolt on myth of 2010 is a big part of it.

where do you get the 400 lbs figure?

i guess its a good point that this car is an M6.

where do you get the 400 lbs figure?

i guess its a good point that this car is an M6.

They talked about it on their blog back when it was going on etc. I am not sure if they published it in the article...they left some stuff out when I had read it to say the least. Which I thought was very lame of them. I am not positive it was exactly 400lbs off hand...but it was close to this.

The car was completely gutted...they even went as far as to remove all the mirrors lol.

I am sure you could find it rather easily if you searched...I dont have the link off hand.

i looked for an exact weight, and people asked for it but they never replied. coincidence?

but yea, im assuming the took quite a bit of weight out.

is the blog on facebook or is there another?

i looked for an exact weight, and people asked for it but they never replied. coincidence?

but yea, im assuming the took quite a bit of weight out.

For sure. They went from 11.6 to 10.9 by adding race gas and reducing weight.

is the blog on facebook or is there another?

I am not sure man. It was a while ago. I think it was facebook (I dont have an account) I could sift through an old long thread on camaro5 where it was discussed...the truth came out during a heated battle if you know what I mean lol.

If you type in..."evolution performance 2011 GT race weight"....on google look at the second link. From their you can sift through the facebook page.

But if you look you can see where it says 3250 race weight on the google page. "10.617 at 124.66MPH 1.356 DA -870ft Race weight 3250lbs" from one of their nitrous runs where the car was gutted as well.

The car is 3600 stock. Figure a 200lb driver. That would be ~550 lbs lighter than stock.

Even with no gas and a 150 lb driver (which is probably the case haha) you are looking at right around 400lbs.

Man its not easy to find a strait answer to say the least.

I also just noticed they were at -870 DA. They did all of the runs and tuning at ATCO. Must be nice.

if you click on it, thats actualy chris1313's race weight, and his ET cam only.

if you click on it, thats actualy chris1313's race weight, and his ET cam only.

I see that. Guess I should have checked every persons sig...didnt think about that possibility.

Keep looking and let me know if you find the exact number.

I have been looking through page after page of google results and can not find an exact answer.

The consensus is 32xx race weight but nothing more than educated guesses/rumors by different people.

i'd guess 33xx with driver and gas, but who knows. i'd like to see some pictures of the interior and the underside though.

Funny how the most fast fords use power adders. The mph are low compared to the et's. That tells me the chassis are set up really well...but the hp is lower than many cars running those et's. In other words many of these mustangs will get spanked on a street roll on race.

last time i checked roll racing is for queers in srt4's.

last time i checked roll racing is for queers in srt4's.

Maybe or maybe not.

In reality this is where most of the racing will happen in the real world. Your average joes messing around on the highway etc.

Most people cant launch either (especially when youve got 400+ hp on the street with street tires)....so the high end is what usually wins the race for most people.

Can you comprehend? The reason you have only seen shop cars doing this because the 11gt just came out recently... You really think people are standing in line to buy this car and put it in the 10's or 9's the first month they own it? Give it some time bro. Shops are doing this out of the gate to promote business, just like they did on the 5th gen, then buyers will follow suit after they see the results...



Yes you were wrong, there's no guessing about it. Atleast you admit it tho!!

Shops will do it, the people wont, the car has the suspension and the SRA, but not enough engine to do it.


Racing is racing, whether its from a dig or a roll.

Funny how the most fast fords use power adders. The mph are low compared to the et's. That tells me the chassis are set up really well...but the hp is lower than many cars running those et's. In other words many of these mustangs will get spanked on a street roll on race.

LS powered cars have a power adder, its called a bigger engine.

Shops will do it, the people wont, the car has the suspension and the SRA, but not enough engine to do it.


Racing is racing, whether its from a dig or a roll.

ahah! ok. how many of the cars on the fast list (ls1tech, corvette forum, etc) are from shops? you really are ignorant.

ahah! ok. how many of the cars on the fast list (ls1tech, corvette forum, etc) are from shops? you really are ignorant.

exactly! he has no comprehension because he keeps responding to my posts in a way that makes no sense at all lol.

ahah! ok. how many of the cars on the fast list (ls1tech, corvette forum, etc) are from shops? you really are ignorant.

Then what exactly are we arguing about, you brag about a shop built mustang going the speed of light and we showed you camaros doing the same, and faster with the same or less mods. Way to bite your own tongue.

exactly! he has no comprehension because he keeps responding to my posts in a way that makes no sense at all lol.

This isnt kindergarden anymore. Its a forum full of discussion, if you cant comprehend what im saying then maybe you should just stay out.

Then what exactly are we arguing about, you brag about a shop built mustang going the speed of light and we showed you camaros doing the same, and faster with the same or less mods. Way to bite your own tongue.



This isnt kindergarden anymore. Its a forum full of discussion, if you cant comprehend what im saying then maybe you should just stay out.

I understand this forum is open for discussion... but your responses to my posts are pure igrorance. You never showed any 5th gen is faster... your full of shit. You have taken this thread off topic by bringin up other cars to compare... I am being unbiased here, are you? I have never owned a stang, never will! But I can admit when something else is a better platform you obviously can not and seem to be severly butt hurt. orangechevyII has one of the fastest 5th gens to date even said that the stang is a bit quicker. Obviously once you add heads/ cam and fully mod any 4th or 5th gen Gm takes the nod. The whole point was comparing stock internal engines. You seem to keep missing both of those points. hang in there sunshine, your special! :gtfo:

Then what exactly are we arguing about, you brag about a shop built mustang going the speed of light and we showed you camaros doing the same, and faster with the same or less mods. Way to bite your own tongue.



This isnt kindergarden anymore. Its a forum full of discussion, if you cant comprehend what im saying then maybe you should just stay out.

"ok, so you can give me (a 9 second heads cam car) but not a BOLT ON CAR in the 10's? weird huh."

YOU HAVENT PROVIDED ME WITH A 9 SECOND BOLT ON/SPRAY FBODY, LET ALONE A 5TH GEN.

not only that, but the only car thats more than a tenth quicker runs a th400 which by your logic isnt a bolt on car. the 5.0 that ran 10.97 had the original engine, transmission and rear end, and street suspension, simple poly bushings, stock brakes etc. the bolt on camaros are lighter, with alot more done to them(again, by your logic, not a bolt on car). hence a 350whp car running the same time as a 420whp car.

bolt on VS bolt on, stripper VS stripper, the 5.0's gonna win. we'll see how they repspond to cams and ETC.

I understand this forum is open for discussion... but your responses to my posts are pure igrorance. You never showed any 5th gen is faster... your full of shit. You have taken this thread off topic by bringin up other cars to compare... I am being unbiased here, are you? I have never owned a stang, never will! But I can admit when something else is a better platform you obviously can not and seem to be severly butt hurt. orangechevyII has one of the fastest 5th gens to date even said that the stang is a bit quicker. Obviously once you add heads/ cam and fully mod any 4th or 5th gen Gm takes the nod. The whole point was comparing stock internal engines. You seem to keep missing both of those points. hang in there sunshine, your special! :gtfo:

If you scroll back other members have shown you what you asked, why would i repeat whats already, and if you would actually read my posts you would see that i have already said that the 5th gen has not done what the 5.0 has, with mininal boltons it has though. Can you tell me what the REAL topic was of this thread WAS?
"ok, so you can give me (a 9 second heads cam car) but not a BOLT ON CAR in the 10's? weird huh."

YOU HAVENT PROVIDED ME WITH A 9 SECOND BOLT ON/SPRAY FBODY, LET ALONE A 5TH GEN.

not only that, but the only car thats more than a tenth quicker runs a th400 which by your logic isnt a bolt on car. the 5.0 that ran 10.97 had the original engine, transmission and rear end, and street suspension, simple poly bushings, stock brakes etc. the bolt on camaros are lighter, with alot more done to them(again, by your logic, not a bolt on car). hence a 350whp car running the same time as a 420whp car.

bolt on VS bolt on, stripper VS stripper, the 5.0's gonna win. we'll see how they repspond to cams and ETC.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1129010-quickest-stock-internals-list-11-74-bump.html

Many M6 cars, cant say exactly the same for the 5th gen. Apples to apples, bolton vs bolton stripper vs stripper 5.0 win? Ha. They will not respond to cams, they wont respond to heads, 5th gens are putting down 500 to the wheels with just a cam and boltons( intake exhaust tune), add heads another 30whp. You can add whatever you want but N/A a 5.0 isnt gonna hit 500whp without having to resort to ridiculously high compression, a monster cam, and a badass intake mani, its just too small, either way first we have to wait for these parts to come out :rotflmao:. If they come out. If cams for cobras/shelbys were expensive then they sure as hell will be too for 5.0's, i also wonder who would do a head for 5.0's? (there is no proof that the 4v outflow LS3/L92's so dont even say that you wont need porting) Boost? Dont even go there, cuz then high compression, powdered rods comes to mind.

If you scroll back other members have shown you what you asked, why would i repeat whats already, and if you would actually read my posts you would see that i have already said that the 5th gen has not done what the 5.0 has, with mininal boltons it has though. Can you tell me what the REAL topic was of this thread WAS?


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1129010-quickest-stock-internals-list-11-74-bump.html

Many M6 cars, cant say exactly the same for the 5th gen. Apples to apples, bolton vs bolton stripper vs stripper 5.0 win? Ha. They will not respond to cams, they wont respond to heads, 5th gens are putting down 500 to the wheels with just a cam and boltons( intake exhaust tune), add heads another 30whp. You can add whatever you want but N/A a 5.0 isnt gonna hit 500whp without having to resort to ridiculously high compression, a monster cam, and a badass intake mani, its just too small, either way first we have to wait for these parts to come out :rotflmao:. If they come out. If cams for cobras/shelbys were expensive then they sure as hell will be too for 5.0's, i also wonder who would do a head for 5.0's? (there is no proof that the 4v outflow LS3/L92's so dont even say that you wont need porting) Boost? Dont even go there, cuz then high compression, powdered rods comes to mind.

This thread is about the 5.0 vs the l99 5th gen. What I have been posting is on topic.. Your the one comparing other platforms to support your weak ass argument. I already said when you add heads/ cam to any ls engine it changes things. But we were comparing the two platforms engines in stock form. See you have no comprehension, go back to school!

This thread is about the 5.0 vs the l99 5th gen. What I have been posting is on topic.. Your the one comparing other platforms to support your weak ass argument. I already said when you add heads/ cam to any ls engine it changes things. But we were comparing the two platforms engines in stock form. See you have no comprehension, go back to school!

Yeah and i showed what heads/cam N/A(no nitrous) camaros can do,then we showed you what stock bottom end nitrous LS1 cars can do, we compared stock bottom vs stock bottom end. What else do you need?

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1129010-quickest-stock-internals-list-11-74-bump.html

Stock ls1 bottom end nitrous only 9.6

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/single-digit-club/750070-stock-cube-nitrous-record.html

Fastest stock bottom end N/A

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1195002-texas-speed-new-na-stock-bottom-end-heads-cam-record-9-66-a.html

5th gen boltons only doing the same thing that 2011 Gt is doing. Go on down the list and you will be surprised.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-camaro-racing-tech-results/1302884-official-gen-5-camaro-1-4-mile-times-list.html

Many M6 cars, cant say exactly the same for the 5th gen. Apples to apples, bolton vs bolton stripper vs stripper 5.0 win? Ha. They will not respond to cams, they wont respond to heads, 5th gens are putting down 500 to the wheels with just a cam and boltons( intake exhaust tune), add heads another 30whp. You can add whatever you want but N/A a 5.0 isnt gonna hit 500whp without having to resort to ridiculously high compression, a monster cam, and a badass intake mani, its just too small, either way first we have to wait for these parts to come out :rotflmao:. If they come out. If cams for cobras/shelbys were expensive then they sure as hell will be too for 5.0's, i also wonder who would do a head for 5.0's? (there is no proof that the 4v outflow LS3/L92's so dont even say that you wont need porting) Boost? Dont even go there, cuz then high compression, powdered rods comes to mind.

so wait, a 5th gen can make 530 to the wheels with H/C/I, but it cant run 10's on the stock short block? thats sad.


"You can add whatever you want but N/A a 5.0 isnt gonna hit 500whp
now you're a psychic?"

(again) the 5.0 lays down 420-430whp with bolt ons. whats the ls3 lay down? OH YEA. the same.

"The Coyote head at a given lift actually outflows a Yates D3 head." Now that Adam Christian, internal combustion engineering analyst, has your attention, "It's a Four-Valve, right, we're cheating [The radical Yates NASCAR race head is a two-valve.-Ed.], but up to our peak lift, 13mm, we're actually out-flowing the Yates head. And that pretty much means we're outflowing Brand X, Y, and Z."

http://image.musclemustangfastfords.com/f/8805023/0609_MMFP_06Z+D3_type_head+flow_graph.jpg



the 5.0 has already made 65xhp/64xftlbs on an engine dyno supercharged.


anything else you wanna add? your argument is weak.

Yeah and i showed what heads/cam N/A(no nitrous) camaros can do,then we showed you what stock bottom end nitrous LS1 cars can do, we compared stock bottom vs stock bottom end. What else do you need?

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1129010-quickest-stock-internals-list-11-74-bump.html

Stock ls1 bottom end nitrous only 9.6

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/single-digit-club/750070-stock-cube-nitrous-record.html

Fastest stock bottom end N/A

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-results/1195002-texas-speed-new-na-stock-bottom-end-heads-cam-record-9-66-a.html

5th gen boltons only doing the same thing that 2011 Gt is doing. Go on down the list and you will be surprised.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-camaro-racing-tech-results/1302884-official-gen-5-camaro-1-4-mile-times-list.html


again, apples to oranges. you're comparing an HCI n/a car to a bolt on/spray car. whats your point?

the fastest N/A cam only is... slower than a bolt on mustang.
2. OrangeChevy - 11.37 @ 121.55 mph (Cam, LT, Exhaust, CAI, Tune, Skinny's, DR's), (LS3, M6)


again, whats the argument?

Interesting results.

again, apples to oranges. you're comparing an HCI n/a car to a bolt on/spray car. whats your point?

the fastest N/A cam only is... slower than a bolt on mustang.
2. OrangeChevy - 11.37 @ 121.55 mph (Cam, LT, Exhaust, CAI, Tune, Skinny's, DR's), (LS3, M6)


again, whats the argument?

Missing one BIG POINT..full weight vs stripped. His camaro with ~400 lbs removed and race gas would be 10's no problem.

A shop hasn't taken the camaro out yet and made it into a stirp only car that was completely gutted etc running race gas.

Again..saying just a bolt on mustang is misleading...once a car is stripped like that it reflects little as to what a normal full weight car could do. Stripping a car like that would add just as much to its performance as a cam swap... if not more IMO

when keeping things equal the cars are still within tenths of each other.

Before the mustang was stripped and running race gas/race gas tune it was right in the same ballpark as a bolt on 5th gen...mid to high 11's. And yet you are still comparing and average joe to a dedicated race team with a lot of track time etc.

For being a heavy car with IRS I think the camaros performance is pretty impressive.

so wait, a 5th gen can make 530 to the wheels with H/C/I, but it cant run 10's on the stock short block? thats sad.


"You can add whatever you want but N/A a 5.0 isnt gonna hit 500whp
now you're a psychic?"

(again) the 5.0 lays down 420-430whp with bolt ons. whats the ls3 lay down? OH YEA. the same.

"The Coyote head at a given lift actually outflows a Yates D3 head." Now that Adam Christian, internal combustion engineering analyst, has your attention, "It's a Four-Valve, right, we're cheating [The radical Yates NASCAR race head is a two-valve.-Ed.], but up to our peak lift, 13mm, we're actually out-flowing the Yates head. And that pretty much means we're outflowing Brand X, Y, and Z."

http://image.musclemustangfastfords.com/f/8805023/0609_MMFP_06Z+D3_type_head+flow_graph.jpg



the 5.0 has already made 65xhp/64xftlbs on an engine dyno supercharged.


anything else you wanna add? your argument is weak.

420-430whp? Thats a joke, stock they dyno 370ish, camaros have already shown to dyno more, mustang gets boltons and they barely go over 400whp. Whatever mods you do the mustang do the camaro and the camaro will respond better, the engine size has a LOT to do with it. Thats all talk about the head flow, but there is no numbers. L92/LS3 flow just a lil more than GT/GT500 heads, how much more can these flow? Go back to the list and you'll find a stock block LS3 with some juice in the 10's. Wow 650hp through an engine dyno! Thats cute!

again, apples to oranges. you're comparing an HCI n/a car to a bolt on/spray car. whats your point?

the fastest N/A cam only is... slower than a bolt on mustang.
2. OrangeChevy - 11.37 @ 121.55 mph (Cam, LT, Exhaust, CAI, Tune, Skinny's, DR's), (LS3, M6)


again, whats the argument?

Dude i gave you the whole list, maybe you should look over it again. If you read back, i stated that a 5th gen has not done what some shop built mustangs have, but LS1 F-body's have, whether its N/A, "boltons", or head and cam. 5th gen 20's+IRS FTL, give it a lil time the 5th gen will come even, cant say they will be faster but they will show the same results.

Missing one BIG POINT..full weight vs stripped. His camaro with ~400 lbs removed and race gas would be 10's no problem.

A shop hasn't taken the camaro out yet and made it into a stirp only car that was completely gutted etc running race gas.

Again..saying just a bolt on mustang is misleading...once a car is stripped like that it reflects little as to what a normal full weight car could do. Stripping a car like that would add just as much to its performance as a cam swap... if not more IMO

when keeping things equal the cars are still within tenths of each other.

Before the mustang was stripped and running race gas/race gas tune it was right in the same ballpark as a bolt on 5th gen...mid to high 11's. And yet you are still comparing and average joe to a dedicated race team with a lot of track time etc.

For being a heavy car with IRS I think the camaros performance is pretty impressive.

Agreed.

Missing one BIG POINT..full weight vs stripped. His camaro with ~400 lbs removed and race gas would be 10's no problem.

A shop hasn't taken the camaro out yet and made it into a stirp only car that was completely gutted etc running race gas.

Again..saying just a bolt on mustang is misleading...once a car is stripped like that it reflects little as to what a normal full weight car could do. Stripping a car like that would add just as much to its performance as a cam swap... if not more IMO

i really dont think they took out as much weight as you seem to think. do you realize how hard 400lbs is to get out of a car? 200 is a chore. you guys seem to pull this 400lb figure outta your ass. its easy to remove mirrors and exhaust, not so easy to pull a dash apart, pull the carpet, or bolt on lightweight parts that dont even exist yet. either way though, the camaro running 11's with a cam is still making 480whp(?) vs 430whp.

when keeping things equal the cars are still within tenths of each other.

Before the mustang was stripped and running race gas/race gas tune it was right in the same ballpark as a bolt on 5th gen...mid to high 11's. And yet you are still comparing and average joe to a dedicated race team with a lot of track time etc.

they were running 11.2 before race gas and weight reduction. the auto car is running 11.5 with at least a tenth in the '60 ft, but now its torn apart to get a forged motor and 15lbs of boost.

For being a heavy car with IRS I think the camaros performance is pretty impressive.
:angel:

420-430whp? Thats a joke, stock they dyno 370ish, camaros have already shown to dyno more, mustang gets boltons and they barely go over 400whp. Whatever mods you do the mustang do the camaro and the camaro will respond better, the engine size has a LOT to do with it. Thats all talk about the head flow, but there is no numbers. L92/LS3 flow just a lil more than GT/GT500 heads, how much more can these flow? Go back to the list and you'll find a stock block LS3 with some juice in the 10's. Wow 650hp through an engine dyno! Thats cute!

what the fuck are you talking about thats a joke? thats a FACT, SORRY BUDDY. facts are facts. a simple google search will yeild results.

the heads flow MORE THAN the yates d3(nascar) heads (graph supplied) up until right about .500" of lift. thats over 350cfm, more than most ported ls3 heads.

Dude i gave you the whole list, maybe you should look over it again. If you read back, i stated that a 5th gen has not done what some shop built mustangs have, but LS1 F-body's have, whether its N/A, "boltons", or head and cam. 5th gen 20's+IRS FTL, give it a lil time the 5th gen will come even, cant say they will be faster but they will show the same results.
last time i checked a h/c/i 5.0 doesnt exist:eyes:, the name of the thread isnt 5.0 vs all, but in reality, i already pointed out the fact that comparing a H/C/I 2600LB car is apples and oranges when comparing to a 3300(?)lb car with boltons and nitrous.


why do i have to repeat myself OVER AND OVER?

Its all talk about flow, we need numbers, they might flow that much but ill believe it when i see it. A H/C/I 5.0 wont exist its pointless, most faster 2011 will be boosted or sprayed. Thats about as close to apples to apples as its gonna get, but when compared really apples to apples, 5th gens are right on par with 2011 GT.

Stock 2011 (and look at how they stress a 5th gear dyno run). All at 370whp. Tuned and bolton 410-420 (i underestimated on that one). Its still less than what 5th gens are doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAu8OlrFNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZ3bJOKOwI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vpga7Sdy94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvSujcb99ZI&feature=related

:angel:

Disagree on both counts

Plenty of 4th gens have a race weight of 2800-3000. 400lbs can be taken out. The interior was gutted and the car didnt even have mirrors. IF they went as far as to remove mirrors...and they are doing this for publicity...you honestly think they didnt remove all they could? please.

I am not pulling any number out of my ass. I recall the number was around 400 lbs back when I could find the information. They merged the thread at camaro 5 into literally hundreds of pages...I honestly cant find it anymore and I wish I could.

11.82 @ 118 was the bolt on run time.

Not to mention a lot of their results have been fishy to many mustang fans from the start. For example. The car was trapping only 107-110 when stock. They gain 10 mph in trap speed with bolt ons and a tune? This company has been known to skew results in the past and to tell you the truth a lot of the stuff they have published smells fishy to say the least.


http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/2011-ford-mustang/496675-2011-mustang-gt-5-0l-4v-11-82-118-mph-pass.html

Notice how people are confused as well in that thread. They were constantly leaving out different modifications in their videos/omitting the truth. One guy who had access to the information.

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/clubhouse/171881-evolution-performance-caught-cooking-dyno-number-again.html

Another link to their BS. Notice how they are saying...at it again...LOL.

The whole point of their runs were to showcase their products/company and show amazing results. If you cant see that Im sorry. Either way their results at different stages of the modding game (that we know of) were not out of reach of the camaro given the same has been done to both cars.

Hype? First off aint no 2011 GT REALLY spitting out that power, ALL cars nowadays are SAE certified to put out 5hp more OR less than what there manufacturers suggest. In other words, a 2011 GT puts out 412 at the crank, plain and simple, this isnt 1960, this isnt 2003 with the cobra, or 1998 with the 4th gens. Why does it put out the power that they show, because the 2011 does NOT have a TRUE 1:1 gear, 4th in there car is like 3rd in others. 412 minus 61hp(15% loss), equals 350whp, same number that my friends LS1 gto put down with intake, exhaust, UD pulley, and tune on TSP's dyno. But what does that mean anyways as a DYNO is only a tuning tool. Camaros WILL put down 10 more hp, on the same DYNO during the same conditions, with both dynoing in a 1:1 (or close) gear, and in the same conditions, add boltons, tune, to both and there will be a bigger difference than just 10hp. Im a noob :angel:.

I wonder how many eaton+bolton only term cobras are in the 9's.

but i thought it was impossible for 5.0's to be equal bolt on vs bolt on? did you just show me a 5.0 that picked up 30 whp from a TUNE?! no headers, no cai, no exhaust. WEIRD huh? did you just pwn yourself?

"5th gear # is 415

Stock 5th gear # is 391

These days the car has a Steeda CAI and retune and makes 431. Video of the pull is on the Livernois Channel."

ROFLLOLERCOASTER! hahahahaahah. you really just fucking ended the argument jeffrey. thanks.

"5th gear # is 415

Stock 5th gear # is 391

These days the car has a Steeda CAI and retune and makes 431. Video of the pull is on the Livernois Channel."

ROFLLOLERCOASTER! hahahahaahah. you really just fucking ended the argument jeffrey. thanks.

And the ARH header 5.0 test car only made 415rwhp with full exhaust, intake and tune. With still only 37x rwtq...virtually no gain in torque after header install.

So...it is 20rwhp behind my car and down over 40rwtq? (and I was mustang dyno)

No I dont believe this or go around bragging about it...it is dyno differences/calibrations/correction factors/conditions.

Again...even after bolt ons...still a good match up.

Like you said...lets see how the 5.0 responds to cams. (even though it will cost you 4x as much to do it to a 5.0)

Disagree on both counts

Plenty of 4th gens have a race weight of 2800-3000. 400lbs can be taken out. The interior was gutted and the car didnt even have mirrors. IF they went as far as to remove mirrors...and they are doing this for publicity...you honestly think they didnt remove all they could? please.

I am not pulling any number out of my ass. I recall the number was around 400 lbs back when I could find the information. They merged the thread at camaro 5 into literally hundreds of pages...I honestly cant find it anymore and I wish I could.

11.82 @ 118 was the bolt on run time.

Not to mention a lot of their results have been fishy to many mustang fans from the start. For example. The car was trapping only 107-110 when stock. They gain 10 mph in trap speed with bolt ons and a tune? This company has been known to skew results in the past and to tell you the truth a lot of the stuff they have published smells fishy to say the least.


http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/2011-ford-mustang/496675-2011-mustang-gt-5-0l-4v-11-82-118-mph-pass.html

Notice how people are confused as well in that thread. They were constantly leaving out different modifications in their videos/omitting the truth. One guy who had access to the information.

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/clubhouse/171881-evolution-performance-caught-cooking-dyno-number-again.html

Another link to their BS. Notice how they are saying...at it again...LOL.

The whole point of their runs were to showcase their products/company and show amazing results. If you cant see that Im sorry. Either way their results at different stages of the modding game (that we know of) were not out of reach of the camaro given the same has been done to both cars.


as i've said before, the reason the cars trapped so slow is the odd gearing. 5th is 1:1, and it gets to 5th right at the top of the track which screws up the pass. the taller tires fixed this.

again, like i said, the car WAS ligtened, but we dont know HOW MUCH. 400 lbs doesnt come outta the interior, mufflers and mirrors, thats for sure.
again, i'll tell you the bolt on full weight, fully loaded auto car with a shit '60 foot ran 11.5, there was an 11.2 in the car with the right converter.

if you think 2 tenths comes from 400lbs and a race gas tune, thats fine, but thats not what i think.

And the ARH header 5.0 test car only made 415rwhp with full exhaust, intake and tune. With still only 37x rwtq...virtually no gain in torque after header install.

So...it is 20rwhp behind my car and down over 40rwtq? (and I was mustang dyno)

No I dont believe this or go around bragging about it...it is dyno differences/calibrations/correction factors/conditions.

Again...even after bolt ons...still a good match up.

Like you said...lets see how the 5.0 responds to cams. (even though it will cost you 4x as much to do it to a 5.0)


a 40 whp gain from a tune and an air intake is pretty increadible, but i totally agree comparing dyno numbers can be iffy.

i guess the boss 5.0 has bigger cams and a higher redline and it makes "440". we'll see what it dynos at, and how much bigger the cams actually are. im thinking that when they get the cams right, the things gonna pick up pretty good, but porting the heads wont do alot.

i agree with the fact that theres way too much fucking guessing and bull shit. it'd be nice if they were more open with what they've done.

but i thought it was impossible for 5.0's to be equal bolt on vs bolt on? did you just show me a 5.0 that picked up 30 whp from a TUNE?! no headers, no cai, no exhaust. WEIRD huh? did you just pwn yourself?

Yeah i did, you should see what camaros are doing. At least i can admit when im wrong, you on the other hand.... Its still stands that the camaro has more power stock, is faster stock, and pick ups more power from boltons. Either way dynos are only tuning tools.

hahah, wtf.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-camaro-tuning-diagnostics-dyno-results/1152237-tune-alone-picked-up-21-rwhp-40-ft-lbs-torque.html

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36676&page=5

not only that, but uhh... 305-320whp out of an A6? wow. thats pretty dismal. the A6 mustang is already up 50whp there...


you seem to base your argument on what you "THINK" or "WANT TO BELEIVE" with "oh well the engines bigger so its FOR SURE gonna gain more with boltons"

but it doesnt seem to be true. shit, the 4100lb POS dynoing LS1 numbers.

most of the guys with full bolt ons and a tune that im seeing pick up 40-50 hp.

ADM race intake, 1 7/8 ARH LT headers, 3" ARH X pipe,Stock mufflers, Futral tune= 370whp, 390ft lbs. thats about what the STOCK mustangs in the dyno vids you showed.

hahah, wtf.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-camaro-tuning-diagnostics-dyno-results/1152237-tune-alone-picked-up-21-rwhp-40-ft-lbs-torque.html

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36676&page=5

not only that, but uhh... 305-320whp out of an A6? wow. thats pretty dismal. the A6 mustang is already up 50whp there...


you seem to base your argument on what you "THINK" or "WANT TO BELEIVE" with "oh well the engines bigger so its FOR SURE gonna gain more with boltons"

but it doesnt seem to be true. shit, the 4100lb POS dynoing LS1 numbers.

most of the guys with full bolt ons and a tune that im seeing pick up 40-50 hp.

ADM race intake, 1 7/8 ARH LT headers, 3" ARH X pipe,Stock mufflers, Futral tune= 370whp, 390ft lbs. thats about what the STOCK mustangs in the dyno vids you showed.

The L99 cars are weak. The stock trans tune is soft also. Some of them also have tune issues from the factory. THey are very slow to revert from the 87 octane dealers put in them...a fuse pull is usually necessary and they dyno about 320-330rwhp. LS1 numbers? yeah the freaks on freak dynos. I have seen ls1 cars dyno 27x before as well. They are usually ~300.

BTW...curb weight for the 2SS is 3860/3849 1SS. 3910 for the auto. Listed curb weight for the BASE model manual GT is 3605.~250 lb difference with equal drivetrains (have a passenger with you and your driving around at camaro weight pretty much) Where is this 4100 coming from? Maybe race weight...which is with a driver

Again...why dont you try and be a little bit more fair with some of your comparisons/assumptions. I have been trying to do the same...

i will say that the LS3 cars do much better, but they're right on par with the 5.0, mod for mod as far as i can tell.

EX ultra, if your car didnt have the UD pulley what do you think it'd dyno? 430ish?

EX ultra, if your car didnt have the UD pulley what do you think it'd dyno? 430ish?

Yeah...the UD pulley is proven 5-8rwhp from what I have seen.

Considering my car only had 700 miles on it when it was dynoed....I would likely be over 440rwhp now (most all cars pick up about ~10hp after break in). So I would think still in the 43x rwhp range without the pulley. But yes...at the time it was dynoed it was surely worth about 5rwhp.

People are seeing at least 420rwhp on average without the pulley from what I have seen. It also depends on primary size of the header. 1 7/8 or 2 inch is the way to go. 1 3/4 are down about 10 hp...so you got to look at that too. And you also never know the quality of the tune you are getting either. Most people should be about where I am at if they are using the right combination of parts and getting a quality tune. In other words...when you see some numbers..look a little deeper before you pass judgment etc.

But IMO a dyno is just more of a tuning tool given all the variances between them, correction factors and variances in conditions at the given dyno.

Even my car varied + or - about 7 hp between pulls when nothing had changed. They are not exact by any means. The tuner went out of his way to show me these types of things and how dyno numbers can be skewed very easily. They've got my business for sure...very honest and good business at Stenod.

well exactly, you cant compare these numbers exactly, but its fair to compare averages. most of the bolt on mustangs are doing about 420- 430 after a tune.

well exactly, you cant compare these numbers exactly, but its fair to compare averages. most of the bolt on mustangs are doing about 420- 430 after a tune.

Yep. They are still right their. I am honestly impressed.

Like we said...lets see if they can hit 500rwhp (550 crank horsepower) with cams on pump gas and be daily driven.

Boltons include, intake, exhaust, tune, etc. Stuff that can be easily swapped out by joe blow in his front yard.Not for nothin'... I could(and have several times) bolted on a nitrous kit in my drive way. Many(most, probably) still claim it isn't a bolt on. The opinions vary.

When did i say that the camaro is better.Why ask me? I never said you did.

Im gonna bolt in a BBC 468 into my moms saturn, is that a bolton too?I think a nitrous install would be much easier... But hey, if you can bolt in a BB into your moms Saturn without cutting the chassis, I'll call it a bolt on. Of course, you can't.

Google it, DBRODS on ls1truck.com, heads, cam, nitrous and runs mi 10's. Its all in the setup, and its clear that these camaros were not setup like the mustang was. Old school, gutted car, trans brake, stall, nitrous, drag suspension, its gonna run.What does that truck have to do with any of this? Heads, cam??? Those clearly aren't bolt on items. Again, we don't care about that.

dude...jeffery....you have a 15 second eclipse? and you come on LS1tech bragging about the 5.0 mustang? did you get slapped on the street by one???

um....its got a 5.0! lmao!He wasn't bragging about the 5.0 at all. He's essentially been bashing it the entire time.

so what, congrats ford! took 40 years to make a worthy street mustang again! im glad to see them on the street! glad to have some competition out there instead of mustang owners doing the ole ricer fly by....It took 40yrs? C'mon... You're sounding about as useless AND clueless as he is. I could say it took GM 7yrs to make ANY Camaro and then I could claim it's not really worthy, considering the 98-02 is so much more dominant at this time and since it's so heavy. See where this is going? When you see Camaro's on the track actually BEATING Mustangs overall, let us all know. So far, sad though it may seem, Mustangs are winning handily in drag and road course racing. The new Camaro hasn't proven very competitive in any manner and neither has the old when it gets right down to it. The new one barely beat out the 2010 GT, about 100hp short of current. Point is, what is, is... Let it be.

GM chose to use the Corvette instead and I, for one, have NO problem with that, as it truly is superior to most cars. That said, knocking the Mustang when we KNOW it outperforms the Camaro is just useless banter.

i will say that the LS3 cars do much better, but they're right on par with the 5.0, mod for mod as far as i can tell.

I think the LS3 might do a bit better....I've got a CAI, Long tubes, mufflers ( factory mids ) , a cam (.571/.590 228/240 on a 113 LSA ) and a tune.

Car laid down 470/423 through the cats, no off road or X pipe.

Let me see the 5.0 do that.

I think the LS3 might do a bit better....I've got a CAI, Long tubes, mufflers ( factory mids ) , a cam (.571/.590 228/240 on a 113 LSA ) and a tune.

Car laid down 470/423 through the cats, no off road or X pipe.

Let me see the 5.0 do that.I think the LS3 almost HAS to do better, considering it's obvious size advantage. The engine isn't the problem, the car around it is. The highest HP/TQ means little if it can't win a race in the car on the track.

As for the 5.0 doing that... A 440hp 2012 version using the "current" engine has already been announced. That just shows the fact, more power is available from the new 5.0 than we're seeing so far.

Ultimately, power is the quest for the racer and power adders are the "easiest" answer, so I expect most making big power will have an adder rather than the more difficult route of engine improvement via traditional mods.

I think the LS3 almost HAS to do better, considering it's obvious size advantage. The engine isn't the problem, the car around it is. The highest HP/TQ means little if it can't win a race in the car on the track.

As for the 5.0 doing that... A 440hp 2012 version using the "current" engine has already been announced. That just shows the fact, more power is available from the new 5.0 than we're seeing so far.

Ultimately, power is the quest for the racer and power adders are the "easiest" answer, so I expect most making big power will have an adder rather than the more difficult route of engine improvement via traditional mods.

I agree.

I think the LS3 might do a bit better....I've got a CAI, Long tubes, mufflers ( factory mids ) , a cam (.571/.590 228/240 on a 113 LSA ) and a tune.

Car laid down 470/423 through the cats, no off road or X pipe.

Let me see the 5.0 do that.

Dyno numbers mean nothing, weight plays a huge factor! A full bolton 11gt w/ 420whp is going to give you hell of a run, 250lbs is quite a difference. Look at this vid and see how much 500lbs between the 4th and 5th gen makes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HTC77CgpSk

And the ARH header 5.0 test car only made 415rwhp with full exhaust, intake and tune. With still only 37x rwtq...virtually no gain in torque after header install.

So...it is 20rwhp behind my car and down over 40rwtq? (and I was mustang dyno)

No I dont believe this or go around bragging about it...it is dyno differences/calibrations/correction factors/conditions.




just to say man, the 5.0's are dynoing much higher on mustang/loaded dyno's. something about the VCT and loading makes them dyno higher than on a non loaded dynojet. there are vids of mustang dynos for 2011's on youtube. one was with a 04-06 GTO club dyno day.

LOL. In two years time when C5.com owners sell thier cars to go back to lexus you will see camaro times come down.

All the average 2010-11 camaro owners care about it fucking rims and hoods. Its the gayest bunch of car people Ive ever met. They are the ricers of muscle cars plain and simple. Look at their fast list for example. I would never post a mid 12 sec run on a supercharged camaro to the fast list. I would be embarrassed.

Being said the mustang is a good car. I still hate the rear and the interior of it though. I think they will end up being pretty equal in the end.

I think the LS3 might do a bit better....I've got a CAI, Long tubes, mufflers ( factory mids ) , a cam (.571/.590 228/240 on a 113 LSA ) and a tune.

Car laid down 470/423 through the cats, no off road or X pipe.

Let me see the 5.0 do that.



im not gonna bag on your numbers or your car. what ET's are you running at the track? yes at the track. lets see some 470-500rwhp camaro5.com track vids.


you guys with that power go make a bunch of track vids. i personally will take less power and a better ET any day. bragging rights is track wins, not DYNO numbers.


to be honest, that is where 4th Gen f-body's are getting the wins. better track cars. less dyno numbers and a lot more wins.

Mustangs suck, camaros suck.

im not gonna bag on your numbers or your car. what ET's are you running at the track? yes at the track. lets see some 470-500rwhp camaro5.com track vids.


you guys with that power go make a bunch of track vids. i personally will take less power and a better ET any day. bragging rights is track wins, not DYNO numbers.


to be honest, that is where 4th Gen f-body's are getting the wins. better track cars. less dyno numbers and a lot more wins.

Thanks for not bagging on my numbers....I'm not the "typical" Gen 5 owner.

I haven't had a chance to get it out to the track yet as I just wrapped up the cam work last Friday. As soon as I get the slips I'll share the info...I had it out at the track untuned with the headers & CAI and ran a best of 12.9 @ 111.

60' times are the big boggle with these cars...weight doesnt' help, but once you start adding power to these cars they get "slim" if you know what I mean.
Right now all the rage on C5 is to build dyno queens, I'm determined to get this tank into the 11s where my 4th gen was. And I'm going to do it....

Might not be the fastest car on the planet, but I think there has to be some measure of respect for a 4000 pound car running into the 11s right? :chug:

Mustangs suck, camaros suck.Yo Adrian.... Grow up. You're making yourself look like a real idiot. :eyes: Worse still, you're obvious jealousy about that which you cannot afford is shining through.

im not gonna bag on your numbers or your car. what ET's are you running at the track? yes at the track. lets see some 470-500rwhp camaro5.com track vids.


you guys with that power go make a bunch of track vids. i personally will take less power and a better ET any day. bragging rights is track wins, not DYNO numbers.


to be honest, that is where 4th Gen f-body's are getting the wins. better track cars. less dyno numbers and a lot more wins.
Where are your time slips to back this up? I am still yet to see a new 5.0 run in the 12's in person.

I also would like to see where a lid and tune LS1 can run a 12.7 and be getting all these wins you speak of. I have proof of what my car can do. I guess I have enough track wins to get bragging rights then.

Yo Adrian.... Grow up. You're making yourself look like a real idiot. :eyes: Worse still, you're obvious jealousy about that which you cannot afford is shining through.

Oh yeah of course, next time ill make sure to let everyone that what I typed was sarcasm, in big bold letters. It was my conclusion to my posts in this thread, the people in thread are sticking with there "beliefs" and I'm sticking with my mine. Have a good day.

Where are your time slips to back this up? I am still yet to see a new 5.0 run in the 12's in person.

I also would like to see where a lid and tune LS1 can run a 12.7 and be getting all these wins you speak of. I have proof of what my car can do. I guess I have enough track wins to get bragging rights then.

I was disappointed by both the 5.0 and new SS at the track Saturday evening where they were both in the 13s....GT was lower 13s @ 106and SS higher 13s. I do believe they can be driven better though but I think people think these GTs will run mid 12s stock w/ an average driver and I don't think it's gonna happen.

I was disappointed by both the 5.0 and new SS at the track Saturday evening where they were both in the 13s....GT was lower 13s @ 106and SS higher 13s. I do believe they can be driven better though but I think people think these GTs will run mid 12s stock w/ an average driver and I don't think it's gonna happen.

I agree, I think both car are capable of high-mid 12's in stock form but average people won't do it. One thing people forget is a higher powered car is harder to launch. I know for a fact that the SS needs a lot of seat time to get a decent 60' out of it.

Dyno numbers mean nothing, weight plays a huge factor! A full bolton 11gt w/ 420whp is going to give you hell of a run, 250lbs is quite a difference. Look at this vid and see how much 500lbs between the 4th and 5th gen makes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HTC77CgpSk

LOL. Nice runs.

I beat a h/c ls1 M6 with 3.73's with nothing but the mods in my sig TWICE from a 40-130 roll. No missed shifts. Both started in 2nd gear at 40. He is just as good a driver if not better. Both had no passengers. We both weigh about the same (personally not the cars). Neither got much of a jump on the other. Very clean races.

I posted about it a bit ago. Look it up. He even replied to the thread.

Yeah 250 lbs is worth roughly .25 in the quarter. Significant but made up for with roughly 25hp.

The big difference between the cars is the fact that the camaro is harder to launch/hook...

I beat a 420whp car that is lighter than a 2011 GT...Im sure he will be fine. If on the track..he needs to pull a good 60. Time to spend some more money. In street/roll on races...the 5th gen is VERY strong no doubt.

BTW...full option t-top 4th gens weigh in at 35xx. I believe his was 3560 when it was weighed. My car is 3849.(mines likely less now due to full aftermarket exhaust)
Less than 300 lbs difference. A stripper 4th gen weighs about 3400. (curb weight is listed at 3440 from what I have seen)

My cube advantage making more power under the curve and small 15 hp 20tq advantage was enough to make up for the ~290lbs. In a roll race weight doesnt play as big a role as it does from a stop either.

Where are your time slips to back this up? I am still yet to see a new 5.0 run in the 12's in person.

I also would like to see where a lid and tune LS1 can run a 12.7 and be getting all these wins you speak of. I have proof of what my car can do. I guess I have enough track wins to get bragging rights then.



my BONE STOCK 2000 b4c z28 went 12.790 at 109.15. here is my time slip.


http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/670/timeslip12700011.jpg

Nice. Stock record for 5th gen full optioned is 12.58. Couple others have went 12.6. I am thinking it will get even better...the 12.58 run was on a 1.97 60 ft. Not to mention the ls motors (and most others) definitely get a little stronger with age.

Looks like youve got the world record (or damn near) and can out drive Evan Smith. Your trap speed is also off of the charts for a stock 4th gen. I would be very proud if I were you.

Nice job. I could never run any faster than 13.2 @ 107 in my 98 M6 Z28 no option stripper when it was lid and cat back. My 5th gen was quite a bit faster stock for stock IMO. Bolt on for bolt on its not even close between the two either. Im up about ~80hp on a bolt on ls1.

Its just getting this car to hook is the problem...

BTW...anyone can post a time slip. Not calling you a liar...but that doesnt prove anything. Just like we really cant prove what the 5th gen has run. Just saying...

Oh..and according to your garage you have a lid. Thats not stock. They are proven good for at least 10hp.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/garage/2000-Chevrolet-Camaro-1177-blackfbird98.html

LOL. Nice runs.

I beat a h/c ls1 M6 with 3.73's with nothing but the mods in my sig TWICE from a 40-130 roll. No missed shifts. Both started in 2nd gear at 40. He is just as good a driver if not better. Both had no passengers. We both weigh about the same (personally not the cars). Neither got much of a jump on the other. Very clean races.

i roll race just like most others do. but its standing start at the track that matters. what can you do at the track? me? i may never race the 2011gt. if i do, it will be with suspension setup for racing. drag radials/slicks, and good 60' times. it wont be with street tires.

i roll race just like most others do. but its standing start at the track that matters. what can you do at the track? me? i may never race the 2011gt. if i do, it will be with suspension setup for racing. drag radials/slicks, and good 60' times. it wont be with street tires.

I agree. But people who care about strip numbers/drag racers are a very small portion. And 1/4 mile numbers are only good for bragging on the internet most of the time. (unless you are a frequent drag racer obviously)

A lot of bragging rights will be won on the street in roll races. I am not going to run someone from a stop who has slicks and I dont. If I want to see which car is faster...not which one can hook better/whos the better driver...I race from a roll.

I havent had the car to the track. Waiting just a little longer for temps to come down. Ill be happy with anything in the 12's. I hope the track isnt too busy so I can have a chance to get some type of feel for the car at the track instead of 1 run every 1-2 hours. I hear Milan is usually very busy...I may have a hard time if this is the case.

BTW...anyone can post a time slip. Not calling you a liar...but that doesnt prove anything. Just like we really cant prove what the 5th gen has run. Just saying...

Oh..and according to your garage you have a lid. Thats not stock. They are proven good for at least 10hp.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/garage/2000-Chevrolet-Camaro-1177-blackfbird98.html



i updated my info after i ran 12.7, i had nothing done to the car therefore it was blank before. a week after i bought the slp lid and headers and i have yet to put that in my info yet. and ur absolutely right but i have nothing to gain from posting a random time slip uk? i have the vid of the 12.7 but my buddy cut out at the end and never caught the time but u can match up the time slip to the number i was given on my car at the track. also the weather hasnt been in my favor to reenact that time, the da was -267. last time i went with headers,lid,no cats,x pipe and borla xr1s i couldn not break 12.8 but thats still really really good considering i had the same street tires and the da was 2000+. (z28241 was there to witness it)

i updated my info after i ran 12.7, i had nothing done to the car therefore it was blank before. a week after i bought the slp lid and headers and i have yet to put that in my info yet. and ur absolutely right but i have nothing to gain from posting a random time slip uk? i have the vid of the 12.7 but my buddy cut out at the end and never caught the time but u can match up the time slip to the number i was given on my car at the track. also the weather hasnt been in my favor to reenact that time, the da was -267. last time i went with headers,lid,no cats,x pipe and borla xr1s i couldn not break 12.8 but thats still really really good considering i had the same street tires and the da was 2000+. (z28241 was there to witness it)

Nice job man.

I wish I still had my 4th gen. I would have made it into a track car for sure. Not gonna do that with my 34k new car. Not for at least a couple years anyway ;)

Nice job man.

I wish I still had my 4th gen. I would have made it into a track car for sure. Not gonna do that with my 34k new car. Not for at least a couple years anyway ;)


i was going to thrash mine till i heard of all the track breakages, and warranty issues. ford is using ghost files on PCM's on some cars to track mods. it isnt worth it to lose my warranty.


the things breaking are rear end gears, clutches, and rear control arm bushings. the cars are lauching so hard they are breaking things.

i was going to thrash mine till i heard of all the track breakages, and warranty issues. ford is using ghost files on PCM's on some cars to track mods. it isnt worth it to lose my warranty.


the things breaking are rear end gears, clutches, and rear control arm bushings. the cars are lauching so hard they are breaking things.

So the pcm will let ford know if someone tried to tune it or that they put a catback on or potentially both?