Car running very hot....electrical gurus come in!
07-12-2010, 08:24 PM
#1
Car running very hot....electrical gurus come in! Long story short, for the past year my car has ran extremely warm, especially with the A/C on. I've cleaned the condensor out, changed coolant, flushed system...already did all of that. Last weekend I finally had a friend hook it up to HP Tuners and it idles at 230 degrees with the A/C on.
We found out the the high speed fans are not coming on. Fan relays 1 and 2 and coming on just fine, and when we tried to turn on high speed fans (relay 3) with HP Tuners, it did nothing. So, I replaced Relay 3 today. According to one of the hihg dollar Genesys scanners, all 3 relays are ON and working. However, the coolant temp after idling 10 minutes with A/C on (only 80 degrees out) was 235 degrees. This obviously tells me the high speed fans STILL are not coming on.
Since Relay 3 is WORKING, does this mean that a wire somewhere between the relay and the fans has maybe split, been cut, etc? I do not know alot about the fans and electrical systems. Just wanted to get some input before I dive in, and maybe some more things to look for with the realys, conenctions, wires, etc. Thanks in advance.
We found out the the high speed fans are not coming on. Fan relays 1 and 2 and coming on just fine, and when we tried to turn on high speed fans (relay 3) with HP Tuners, it did nothing. So, I replaced Relay 3 today. According to one of the hihg dollar Genesys scanners, all 3 relays are ON and working. However, the coolant temp after idling 10 minutes with A/C on (only 80 degrees out) was 235 degrees. This obviously tells me the high speed fans STILL are not coming on.
Since Relay 3 is WORKING, does this mean that a wire somewhere between the relay and the fans has maybe split, been cut, etc? I do not know alot about the fans and electrical systems. Just wanted to get some input before I dive in, and maybe some more things to look for with the realys, conenctions, wires, etc. Thanks in advance.
07-12-2010, 09:16 PM
#2
did you flush the coolant system right ? some air might still trap in the system. Jack both front wheel up , take off the radiator car, see if any air bubble coming out.
07-12-2010, 09:56 PM
#4
Is the temp on the car ok when you are driving on highway? I'm just wondering if it's just the fans.
So when you had all three relay's energized did either of the fans turn off?
On relay 3 the orange and dark blue are the coil side, Gray switches between black & white. So when the relay is energized gray & black are shorted, when it's off gray and white are shorted (looking at schematic in Haynes manual). Relay 1 has to be energized for relay 3 to work (shorting red to blue on relay 1). Relay 3 switches the left fan running in series to parallel. If relay 3 kicks on and does nothing, I would check the ground (black wire) on relay3. Relay 2 and 3 are also connected on the coil side, so if one is energized they should both be energized.
Not sure if this is helpful, re-reading this it just sounds confusing. Also my disclaimer, I'm no experienced expert on the car. I do know a little about electronics though and have the schematic in hand.
If you have a voltmeter, on relay 3 check:
ground (black) make sure it's getting a good ground
Put ohm meeter on white on Relay 2 and white on relay 3, it should be a short.
Pull relay 3 out and put a voltmeter across dark blue & orange. If it's getting energized properly you should read 6 (or 12) volts across those two.
Again both relay 2 and 3 work together so either one not working and the high speed fan will not work.
Hope that helps and I didn't just confuse you.
So when you had all three relay's energized did either of the fans turn off?
On relay 3 the orange and dark blue are the coil side, Gray switches between black & white. So when the relay is energized gray & black are shorted, when it's off gray and white are shorted (looking at schematic in Haynes manual). Relay 1 has to be energized for relay 3 to work (shorting red to blue on relay 1). Relay 3 switches the left fan running in series to parallel. If relay 3 kicks on and does nothing, I would check the ground (black wire) on relay3. Relay 2 and 3 are also connected on the coil side, so if one is energized they should both be energized.
Not sure if this is helpful, re-reading this it just sounds confusing. Also my disclaimer, I'm no experienced expert on the car. I do know a little about electronics though and have the schematic in hand.
If you have a voltmeter, on relay 3 check:
ground (black) make sure it's getting a good ground
Put ohm meeter on white on Relay 2 and white on relay 3, it should be a short.
Pull relay 3 out and put a voltmeter across dark blue & orange. If it's getting energized properly you should read 6 (or 12) volts across those two.
Again both relay 2 and 3 work together so either one not working and the high speed fan will not work.
Hope that helps and I didn't just confuse you.
07-12-2010, 10:30 PM
#5
Long story short, for the past year my car has ran extremely warm, especially with the A/C on. I've cleaned the condensor out, changed coolant, flushed system...already did all of that. Last weekend I finally had a friend hook it up to HP Tuners and it idles at 230 degrees with the A/C on.
We found out the the high speed fans are not coming on. Fan relays 1 and 2 and coming on just fine, and when we tried to turn on high speed fans (relay 3) with HP Tuners, it did nothing. So, I replaced Relay 3 today. According to one of the hihg dollar Genesys scanners, all 3 relays are ON and working. However, the coolant temp after idling 10 minutes with A/C on (only 80 degrees out) was 235 degrees. This obviously tells me the high speed fans STILL are not coming on.
Since Relay 3 is WORKING, does this mean that a wire somewhere between the relay and the fans has maybe split, been cut, etc? I do not know alot about the fans and electrical systems. Just wanted to get some input before I dive in, and maybe some more things to look for with the realys, conenctions, wires, etc. Thanks in advance.
We found out the the high speed fans are not coming on. Fan relays 1 and 2 and coming on just fine, and when we tried to turn on high speed fans (relay 3) with HP Tuners, it did nothing. So, I replaced Relay 3 today. According to one of the hihg dollar Genesys scanners, all 3 relays are ON and working. However, the coolant temp after idling 10 minutes with A/C on (only 80 degrees out) was 235 degrees. This obviously tells me the high speed fans STILL are not coming on.
Since Relay 3 is WORKING, does this mean that a wire somewhere between the relay and the fans has maybe split, been cut, etc? I do not know alot about the fans and electrical systems. Just wanted to get some input before I dive in, and maybe some more things to look for with the realys, conenctions, wires, etc. Thanks in advance.
OR...are you just seeing that the fans are not going into high looking at the HP Tuners?
Also, they need to both ALWAYS come "on" and go "off" and go into "low" and "high" together....never separate.
.
07-13-2010, 04:24 AM
#6
They only stay on LOW setting. When you give it the command in HP Tuners to go into HIGH (which is set to happen at 183 right now) it does nothing at all. The car is too loud to actually stand beside it and listen for it, that is why HP Tuners was used.
07-13-2010, 07:01 AM
#7
Only reason I say to verify it FOR SURE by "feel or by sound" is so you don't go chasing a fan/electrical issue...when the fans are really going into HIGH just fine. Also, if just one fan is not coming onto HIGH, you will get hot sitting there idling.
There's only 5 things (that I can think of) that will cause you to get hot when you are just idling and/or not moving.
-"BOTH" fans not going into HIGH
-Air in the system
-Sticking t-stat....not opening all the way and the flow is cut down
-Something is clogged up
-Fan shroud is not intact, was removed, or is coming loose and not sealing well.
If its none of these 5 things, then it could be a bad PCM. I'd pop the two PCM pin strip plugs and look for burnt pins. Its not the fan wiring harness, otherwise the fans wouldn't come on at all.
Man I hate electrical issues.......
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07-13-2010, 04:23 PM
#9
This is what I did to come to my conclusion lol. fans came on by clicking the relay 1 and relay 2. When he clicked relay 3 (high speed), the fans did not speed up, they remained on low speed. I have a friend coming over to check it out for me tomorrow, I will update with what I found out!
07-13-2010, 04:25 PM
#10
This is what I did to come to my conclusion lol. fans came on by clicking the relay 1 and relay 2. When he clicked relay 3 (high speed), the fans did not speed up, they remained on low speed. I have a friend coming over to check it out for me tomorrow, I will update with what I found out!
07-13-2010, 09:53 PM
#12
Okay, so if nothing happens then about the only thing that makes sense is a problem with the dark blue wire, orange on relay 2 & 3, or the powertrain control module.
Good luck!
Good luck!
07-14-2010, 09:00 PM
#13
PROBLEM SOLVED.....
Turns out the fan relay 2 was bad as well, reoplaced all 3 of them and the car does not get over 200 degree in hot stop and go traffic with a/c on! So the whole time, only he driver side fan was running....the second was just "spinning" because it was being pulled on by the air moving from the first fan! Thank god...
Turns out the fan relay 2 was bad as well, reoplaced all 3 of them and the car does not get over 200 degree in hot stop and go traffic with a/c on! So the whole time, only he driver side fan was running....the second was just "spinning" because it was being pulled on by the air moving from the first fan! Thank god...
07-15-2010, 12:56 AM
#15
That should'nt of been happening. The way the stock system should work is both fans are on or off at the same time. Both fans on low, or both fans on high, or all off. if just one fan was working something else is up ya know?
either way the cars staying cool now so dont worry about it.
