LQ9 w/ fbody 4l60e...quite a few wiring questions
07-22-2010, 02:53 PM
#1
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LQ9 w/ fbody 4l60e...quite a few wiring questions hey all i am in the middle of wiring up my 6.0 swap into the truck...
i am building a standalone engine harness, out of the factory escalade harness and 0411 pcm. meanwhile i am removing the DBW system and converting to DBC, and removing all extra connectors and wiring i dont need to run the engine/ trans....
so heres where the confusion starts...
the harness is for a 4x4 truck... i seem to have two extra connectors at the trans...one that seems to be a prnd connector (pretty sure i can yank it) and one im not sure of its function... im guessing its for the 4x4 but im not sure... it is a white connector and has a red weatherpak seal, and the wiring goes,
grey , yellow, white , blk/wht.
i am also running a 4l60e from a 98-02 fbody, is there any rewiring of the round connector i need to do?
also is there going to be any problems controlling the trans if i remove the prnd wiring?
i am not going to be using the truck fuse box, so i have to redo all connections there. so far i have figured out the majority of the wires but still have a few questions.
1. each injector has its own keyed power wire, all the way back to the block, where they are paired up....is there any problem w/ running a single, fused power wire that branches out to each injector in parallel? or this there a reason why they are seperated?
same goes for coil and o2 wires... they seem to all be off of ignition (keyed) power anyways... i was planning on using the 12+V signal from the ignition switch to power up the primary side of an ignition relay... just not sure if one will do the trick... also what amperage fuse should i use for the igniton system?
2. the grounds at the fuse block... dont know if they were needed or not?
3. power wires to fuse block... it seems there is a 12v wire that goes from the block to the trans connector, there is also one that goes to pin 19 @ the blue connector of the pcm, and two that go to the pcm that get battery power...
now for the two oranges that go to battery, all i need is to hook em up to always hot 12V+ source correct?
do the two pinks (one to trans, one to pin 19 pcm) need to see keyed 12+v source?
IAT... since there is no maf, there is only one wire from the pcm that goes to the iat sensor...do i just ground the other wire, or does it need reference ground from the pcm? if so what pin to i plug into?
TPS and IAC... i already have the connectors, just need to know what pins they need to be located at on the pcm.
any help would be greatly appreciated...
thanks
i am building a standalone engine harness, out of the factory escalade harness and 0411 pcm. meanwhile i am removing the DBW system and converting to DBC, and removing all extra connectors and wiring i dont need to run the engine/ trans....
so heres where the confusion starts...
the harness is for a 4x4 truck... i seem to have two extra connectors at the trans...one that seems to be a prnd connector (pretty sure i can yank it) and one im not sure of its function... im guessing its for the 4x4 but im not sure... it is a white connector and has a red weatherpak seal, and the wiring goes,
grey , yellow, white , blk/wht.
i am also running a 4l60e from a 98-02 fbody, is there any rewiring of the round connector i need to do?
also is there going to be any problems controlling the trans if i remove the prnd wiring?
i am not going to be using the truck fuse box, so i have to redo all connections there. so far i have figured out the majority of the wires but still have a few questions.
1. each injector has its own keyed power wire, all the way back to the block, where they are paired up....is there any problem w/ running a single, fused power wire that branches out to each injector in parallel? or this there a reason why they are seperated?
same goes for coil and o2 wires... they seem to all be off of ignition (keyed) power anyways... i was planning on using the 12+V signal from the ignition switch to power up the primary side of an ignition relay... just not sure if one will do the trick... also what amperage fuse should i use for the igniton system?
2. the grounds at the fuse block... dont know if they were needed or not?
3. power wires to fuse block... it seems there is a 12v wire that goes from the block to the trans connector, there is also one that goes to pin 19 @ the blue connector of the pcm, and two that go to the pcm that get battery power...
now for the two oranges that go to battery, all i need is to hook em up to always hot 12V+ source correct?
do the two pinks (one to trans, one to pin 19 pcm) need to see keyed 12+v source?
IAT... since there is no maf, there is only one wire from the pcm that goes to the iat sensor...do i just ground the other wire, or does it need reference ground from the pcm? if so what pin to i plug into?
TPS and IAC... i already have the connectors, just need to know what pins they need to be located at on the pcm.
any help would be greatly appreciated...
thanks
07-22-2010, 11:50 PM
#2
You can and can`t yank the gray PRND connector. It has all the reverse light wiring which is probably useless to you. But it also functions as the neutral safety switch. not sure if you need that function.
The second connector is also for the PRND switch but it is there to tell the PCM what gear you have selected. Since your running a 60e I would keep this connector and switch if possible. If not, convert the PCM from a PRND signal to a P/N signal and run a P/N switch, if not I think the trans should still work but it might not be quite as easy to tune the car esp if you cam it.
Did the 6.0L come with a 60e behind it, an 80e or a 65e?
1. You can branch the injectors/coils off closer, but I would still fuse them in 2 groups. From the factory all the even coils were tied together and fused with a 15A, same as the odds. The injectors were also fused with 15A fuses in the same way.
2. IIRC they are grounded at the engine side and just run to the fuse block to supply the fuse block with a ground (for all the relays).
3. Yep oranges get tied together then fused with a 20a directly to a constant hot source.
pin 19 should get a 10a fuse then to a keyed hot source.
The pink to the trans should be tied together with the pink at pin 75 of the PCM and then go to a 10a fuse and then to a keyed hot source.
IAT goes from red connector pin 25 to pin 57 see 99-02 f-body diagrams
TPS AND IAC see 99-02 f-body diagrams
The second connector is also for the PRND switch but it is there to tell the PCM what gear you have selected. Since your running a 60e I would keep this connector and switch if possible. If not, convert the PCM from a PRND signal to a P/N signal and run a P/N switch, if not I think the trans should still work but it might not be quite as easy to tune the car esp if you cam it.
Did the 6.0L come with a 60e behind it, an 80e or a 65e?
1. You can branch the injectors/coils off closer, but I would still fuse them in 2 groups. From the factory all the even coils were tied together and fused with a 15A, same as the odds. The injectors were also fused with 15A fuses in the same way.
2. IIRC they are grounded at the engine side and just run to the fuse block to supply the fuse block with a ground (for all the relays).
3. Yep oranges get tied together then fused with a 20a directly to a constant hot source.
pin 19 should get a 10a fuse then to a keyed hot source.
The pink to the trans should be tied together with the pink at pin 75 of the PCM and then go to a 10a fuse and then to a keyed hot source.
IAT goes from red connector pin 25 to pin 57 see 99-02 f-body diagrams
TPS AND IAC see 99-02 f-body diagrams
07-23-2010, 08:14 AM
#3
The PRND connector is already wired into your harness, and you're using a 4L60E anyway, I would just leave it all in. The actual "PNP switch/Park Neutral Position switch", which is that black box that slips over the gear selector post on your transmission, neatly packages a bunch of connections for you. Like stated above, it has provisions for your backup lights as well as your neutral safety switch. I think it even lets the PCM know whether you're in park, neutral, or a gear so it can adjust the idle properly. If all that stuff is already wired up, and your 4L60E is going to have the PNP switch on it anyway, I would definitely leave it in there. It's only going to help you.
I might sound like a weenie, but the PNP switch/neutral safety switch is also an important safety feature. It will make sure you (or someone else) never try to start the car and have it lunge into a something else - like another car, a building, a tree, a person, or a child.
The 4x4 trucks did have an extra connector on them for the transfer case. I am not sure what it was it looked like though... I took mine off and forgot about it. If you're harness came from a truck with a 4L80E, I think it will have a connector for an extra VSS/Vehicle Speed Sensor, too. However, I think the VSS is only two wires, not three.
I might sound like a weenie, but the PNP switch/neutral safety switch is also an important safety feature. It will make sure you (or someone else) never try to start the car and have it lunge into a something else - like another car, a building, a tree, a person, or a child.
The 4x4 trucks did have an extra connector on them for the transfer case. I am not sure what it was it looked like though... I took mine off and forgot about it. If you're harness came from a truck with a 4L80E, I think it will have a connector for an extra VSS/Vehicle Speed Sensor, too. However, I think the VSS is only two wires, not three.
07-23-2010, 11:47 AM
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You can and can`t yank the gray PRND connector. It has all the reverse light wiring which is probably useless to you. But it also functions as the neutral safety switch. not sure if you need that function.
The second connector is also for the PRND switch but it is there to tell the PCM what gear you have selected. Since your running a 60e I would keep this connector and switch if possible. If not, convert the PCM from a PRND signal to a P/N signal and run a P/N switch, if not I think the trans should still work but it might not be quite as easy to tune the car esp if you cam it.
Did the 6.0L come with a 60e behind it, an 80e or a 65e?
1. You can branch the injectors/coils off closer, but I would still fuse them in 2 groups. From the factory all the even coils were tied together and fused with a 15A, same as the odds. The injectors were also fused with 15A fuses in the same way.
2. IIRC they are grounded at the engine side and just run to the fuse block to supply the fuse block with a ground (for all the relays).
3. Yep oranges get tied together then fused with a 20a directly to a constant hot source.
pin 19 should get a 10a fuse then to a keyed hot source.
The pink to the trans should be tied together with the pink at pin 75 of the PCM and then go to a 10a fuse and then to a keyed hot source.
IAT goes from red connector pin 25 to pin 57 see 99-02 f-body diagrams
TPS AND IAC see 99-02 f-body diagrams
The second connector is also for the PRND switch but it is there to tell the PCM what gear you have selected. Since your running a 60e I would keep this connector and switch if possible. If not, convert the PCM from a PRND signal to a P/N signal and run a P/N switch, if not I think the trans should still work but it might not be quite as easy to tune the car esp if you cam it.
Did the 6.0L come with a 60e behind it, an 80e or a 65e?
1. You can branch the injectors/coils off closer, but I would still fuse them in 2 groups. From the factory all the even coils were tied together and fused with a 15A, same as the odds. The injectors were also fused with 15A fuses in the same way.
2. IIRC they are grounded at the engine side and just run to the fuse block to supply the fuse block with a ground (for all the relays).
3. Yep oranges get tied together then fused with a 20a directly to a constant hot source.
pin 19 should get a 10a fuse then to a keyed hot source.
The pink to the trans should be tied together with the pink at pin 75 of the PCM and then go to a 10a fuse and then to a keyed hot source.
IAT goes from red connector pin 25 to pin 57 see 99-02 f-body diagrams
TPS AND IAC see 99-02 f-body diagrams
ok, i believe originally this harness was from an escalade with 4wd/possibly awd... not sure how they came... so my best guess would be it came with a 65e...
now i have a 60e from a car...this does not have a prnd switch mounted on it...i also know that on the cars, the P/N switch is located on the shifter...
my guess is the switch controls a ground? if so, can i run a switched ground to the pcm to simulate the p/n switch? kind of like a kill switch?
this is going in an off road truck, so in some cases it may need to start in gear...the reverse lights dont need em, and the engine is stock with plans of fi in the future...
my main concern with removing the prnd wiring, was i didnt know if it was going to affect the shifting of the transmission/ converter lockup, since the pcm would not know what gear it was in.... but it seems the wiring for that is in the round connector on the trans.
now just to be sure, will there need to be any repinning of the round transmission connector?
is there only a difference between the 60 family and the 80 family?
thank you so much for the answers to my question... this just made my weekend a whollleeee lot easier...lol
07-23-2010, 11:53 AM
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The PRND connector is already wired into your harness, and you're using a 4L60E anyway, I would just leave it all in. The actual "PNP switch/Park Neutral Position switch", which is that black box that slips over the gear selector post on your transmission, neatly packages a bunch of connections for you. Like stated above, it has provisions for your backup lights as well as your neutral safety switch. I think it even lets the PCM know whether you're in park, neutral, or a gear so it can adjust the idle properly. If all that stuff is already wired up, and your 4L60E is going to have the PNP switch on it anyway, I would definitely leave it in there. It's only going to help you.
I might sound like a weenie, but the PNP switch/neutral safety switch is also an important safety feature. It will make sure you (or someone else) never try to start the car and have it lunge into a something else - like another car, a building, a tree, a person, or a child.
The 4x4 trucks did have an extra connector on them for the transfer case. I am not sure what it was it looked like though... I took mine off and forgot about it. If you're harness came from a truck with a 4L80E, I think it will have a connector for an extra VSS/Vehicle Speed Sensor, too. However, I think the VSS is only two wires, not three.
I might sound like a weenie, but the PNP switch/neutral safety switch is also an important safety feature. It will make sure you (or someone else) never try to start the car and have it lunge into a something else - like another car, a building, a tree, a person, or a child.
The 4x4 trucks did have an extra connector on them for the transfer case. I am not sure what it was it looked like though... I took mine off and forgot about it. If you're harness came from a truck with a 4L80E, I think it will have a connector for an extra VSS/Vehicle Speed Sensor, too. However, I think the VSS is only two wires, not three.
there was one connector already removed from the harness when i got it, and i am pretty sure that was for the 4x4 function... it seems the two i had mistaken as 4x4 were actually prnd connections...
i understand the safety thing, but its an offroad truck and needs to be started in gear at times...
thanks for your input...much appreciated.
07-23-2010, 12:57 PM
#6
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one more question here... i am running the wires for tps, and pin 60 on blue pcm should be for tps ground(as far as fbody pinout goes).but it already has the org/blk map sensor ground wire in it... should i just put the wire for tps ground in pin 54 where it says the map ground should go?
im a little confused since the truck and fbody have different pinouts.
im a little confused since the truck and fbody have different pinouts.
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07-24-2010, 10:25 PM
#8
one more question here... i am running the wires for tps, and pin 60 on blue pcm should be for tps ground(as far as fbody pinout goes).but it already has the org/blk map sensor ground wire in it... should i just put the wire for tps ground in pin 54 where it says the map ground should go?
im a little confused since the truck and fbody have different pinouts.
im a little confused since the truck and fbody have different pinouts.
07-25-2010, 12:15 PM
#9
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I`m pretty sure that internally in the PCM both pin 54 and 60 connect together in the same place (I believe all the low reference pins are tied together). However, that is only an assumption as I have no way to physically verify that. Therefore, I would figure out if you are going to have it reflashed with a truck os or a f-body os and then follow those diagrams as close as you can.
now here is where i et confused...
i see the 0411 pcm is used in multiple vehicles...
how is it that the pcm has so many different pinouts?
if it is the same internally why do different vehicles have different pinouts?
shouldnt they all be wired the same?
anyways, until now everyone was telling me there is a truck OS that supports DBC... i wired up the harness to the 02 truck pinout i found in the swap faq thread, then i wired up the tps, iac motor, and iat per your reccomendations... (99+ f body)
now i am unsure what OS system i need to flash????
07-26-2010, 12:45 AM
#11
The stuff that moves around, pinout wise, from vehicle platform to another are stuff like low reference's and 5v references.
The location of follow does not move.
TPS Signal
MAP Signal
MAF Signal
IAT Signal
Injector Controls
Coil Controls
etc...others as well.
All the low references are basically a dedicated GROUND signal to each device, they do indeed tie together in the PCM>
The PCM has two separate 5 volt references. I don't know which pins are on one and which are on the other, however both do the same thing. This was probably done so if one of the 5v references was to get shorted out, some of the other devices relying on 5v reference would still function.
Again, the low reference and 5v reference is the only thing I see move around from f-body to truck, and from 02 prior and 03+. Express vans also have slightly different wiring.
attached is an excel sheet with side by side layout of PCM pinouts, from F-body, to 99 truck to 04 truck. also on there is 98 f-body, however it is TOTALLY different. C1 is RED on a 98, where C1 is BLUE on 99+ everything else.
The location of follow does not move.
TPS Signal
MAP Signal
MAF Signal
IAT Signal
Injector Controls
Coil Controls
etc...others as well.
All the low references are basically a dedicated GROUND signal to each device, they do indeed tie together in the PCM>
The PCM has two separate 5 volt references. I don't know which pins are on one and which are on the other, however both do the same thing. This was probably done so if one of the 5v references was to get shorted out, some of the other devices relying on 5v reference would still function.
Again, the low reference and 5v reference is the only thing I see move around from f-body to truck, and from 02 prior and 03+. Express vans also have slightly different wiring.
attached is an excel sheet with side by side layout of PCM pinouts, from F-body, to 99 truck to 04 truck. also on there is 98 f-body, however it is TOTALLY different. C1 is RED on a 98, where C1 is BLUE on 99+ everything else.
07-26-2010, 08:35 PM
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here is how I did mine, sounds like you are doing exactly what I did.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...SOGozNlE&hl=en
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...SOGozNlE&hl=en
Thanks.
07-27-2010, 12:04 AM
#16
that google documents is kind of neat..i added a few I find useful...i made these, could have mistakes, so use with caution.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=CMX9tr0G <=== PCM Pinout side by side compair
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...thkey=CLzZ0q4I <=== C2 Underhood, C100, C152, C153 1999 to 2006
humm..Google is doing something strange with the formatting....
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=CMX9tr0G <=== PCM Pinout side by side compair
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...thkey=CLzZ0q4I <=== C2 Underhood, C100, C152, C153 1999 to 2006
humm..Google is doing something strange with the formatting....
Last edited by busta9876; 07-27-2010 at 12:17 AM.
07-28-2010, 11:59 AM
#17
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wow... im gone for a couple days... come back to find almost everything i need ...
busta that spreadsheet helped tremendously.
neal64ss, i actually did not have to convert the trans connector.. turns out my harness was off a vehicle with a 65e.
so i am almost done with everything here, but going over my pcm connectors i thought of a couple things.
i noticed this alternator has a two wire hookup... does this mean the pcm controls the field current? will it energize without a hookup to a dash light? will i have to wire a light in or resistor?
also i noticed im missing pin 33 on the blue connector... it says its for tcc brake switch...
is that the P/N position switch? does it need switched ground or positive input to close?
also for the fan control..blue 42... does that put out a ground or positive signal?
id like to keep the mil light functional... hopefully i can wire it straight to the cluster, if not what kind of bulb would i need?
i think that about covers it... you folks have been a tremendous help.
busta that spreadsheet helped tremendously.
neal64ss, i actually did not have to convert the trans connector.. turns out my harness was off a vehicle with a 65e.
so i am almost done with everything here, but going over my pcm connectors i thought of a couple things.
i noticed this alternator has a two wire hookup... does this mean the pcm controls the field current? will it energize without a hookup to a dash light? will i have to wire a light in or resistor?
also i noticed im missing pin 33 on the blue connector... it says its for tcc brake switch...
is that the P/N position switch? does it need switched ground or positive input to close?
also for the fan control..blue 42... does that put out a ground or positive signal?
id like to keep the mil light functional... hopefully i can wire it straight to the cluster, if not what kind of bulb would i need?
i think that about covers it... you folks have been a tremendous help.
07-28-2010, 08:42 PM
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Pin 33 blue is the normally closed brake switch. Need to supply 12v to this terminal from the brake switch (most people use the cruise portion of the switch) that opens when you hit the brakes.
Blue 42 fan control will complete the ground path for the fan relay to turn on the fan. See https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...l#post13653744 for more info.
I think that you still use the light/resistor to energize the alternator, might want to verify this as I am not an expert. I just bought a generic indicator lamp from autozone, worked with old setup, should work with new setup. I still not entirely sure where to run the brown wire from pin green 15. It says its for charge indicator control.
Blue 42 fan control will complete the ground path for the fan relay to turn on the fan. See https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...l#post13653744 for more info.
I think that you still use the light/resistor to energize the alternator, might want to verify this as I am not an expert. I just bought a generic indicator lamp from autozone, worked with old setup, should work with new setup. I still not entirely sure where to run the brown wire from pin green 15. It says its for charge indicator control.
07-28-2010, 11:46 PM
#19
You do not need to add a light for the Alt. The PCM fully controls it on 99 or newer PCMs.
You should be able to wire up the MIL light in your dash cluster just need to take a look at the wiring diagrams to figure out where to tie into your trucks cluster.
You should be able to wire up the MIL light in your dash cluster just need to take a look at the wiring diagrams to figure out where to tie into your trucks cluster.
07-28-2010, 11:51 PM
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So the wire coming from my alternator that used to go to the idiot light (on the old BBC engine) now needs to go to pin 15 green connector, if I understand correctly???
Anyone confirm this?
That means I would not have an alternator light with the 5.3l engine, correct?
Anyone confirm this?
That means I would not have an alternator light with the 5.3l engine, correct?