ARTY99z

I would like springs that offer the least amount of drop for header clearance. I have had these shocks for a while now and cant make up my mind on springs. Current set up is eibach pros with stock shocks and there isnt enough clearance to get in the bank drive way. Makes it difficult to mod my car

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/131434-need-some-very-average-shock-spring-advice.html

man. everyone has their own opinion. about all i hear on this board is that bilstein HD's are configured for stock spring heights, rates, etc... having said that, it would mean the HD's are 'no good' for an aftermarket spring (what you will see many say if you do a search). HD's cost a good bit to get revalved to fit your certain type of springs.

all in all, for a daily driven car, i have searched to find an answer to whether or not regular bilstein HD's go well with many of the average lowering springs out there. i could never find an answer, so i just followed in the footsteps of a friend (whose ride quality is superb) and purchased the HD's and DMS springs.

DMS lowers about 1.3 inches. if you think that's too low for you, get some 1" bmr, or the 3/4" from slp. but as far as "what springs go well with HD's," i don't think you'll get a straight answer. all the serious suspension guys on this board tend to think HD's are not good for anything but stock springs (unless revalved), and all the people i know with non-revalved HD's and aftermarket springs (like DMS or pro-kit) seem to love it

hopefully, and seemingly possible, mitch (in my post) is right in that the revalving of bilsteins returns more of a profit (to manufacturer's of the shocks) than a "better" quality shock. like i said, i don't think you'll get a solid answer from anyone - just do what you want to do, i think you'll overall be pleased with the results, even if many on the board may disagree (no offense intended).

roy

Speaking from the autox and road course perspective, bilstein HD are matched for the stock spring of a Z28. I ran stock HD with a 1LE spring handling wasn,t as supurb as it was with the spec DeCarbon shock that came on the vehicle. So offf theycame to get revalved .

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

LOL I can't wait until Sam sees this good to hear your experience Mitch I'm getting ready to add B H\D's to my pro kit (which with stock shocks I HATE)

Bobby

ChitownLS1

iTrader: (9)

I have the BMR springs with Bilstein(SLP) shocks and my ride is very harsh. I live in Chicago where the streest aren't the smoothest(to say the least), but I anticipated a smoother ride than I'm getting. I'm looking for a new solution.

SS Express

I have the Hotchkis springs with Bilstein HD's. In regards to the ride characteristics, it is awesome. On everyday street driving it is slightly stiffer than stock, but I really only notice it if I am going over big bumps or taking high speed turns. But then again, this was also exactly what I was hoping for. In my opinion the stock suspension was too soft for me. And in regards to performance, it is night and day difference. As has been said before, it feels more like the car is on rails now.

I do not race the car so this setup is perfect for me. But I can see that if I did want to race, I would need to at the very least step up to a better performing shock and spring combo.

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

for a daily driven car, i think the dms springs are the best springs on the market, by far. the drop is amazing, and the ride quality is quite nice. the best money spent on my car, easily. and i have HD's as well.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

My work here is done ...

Doesn't anyone else find it odd that there is only ONE vendor hawking revalving for ALL 4th gen shock packages, depending upon springs, justifying it by advertising HDs can't take the "abuse" given them by non-stock springs? So just how long have 4th gens been running Pro kit springs and B H/D shocks? Anyone ever heard of a street car blowing B H/D shocks?

Read most any book about suspension setup or talk to most any crew chief and they will tell you, you revalve a shock for a specific track, not a general spring rate. And you treat springs in the same fashion. NASCAR confiscates shocks after the Daytona 500 ...

I've been doing track events for 4 years. This driver is leaving more shock on the track and not maxing out the shock.

If you won't listen to me, then listen to

Sounds like this is a street driven car, not an AX or track car.

My opinion, only ... YVMV

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

Not sure what you mean by that Mitch. I was saying that its good to hear someone with your experience with these suspensions not saying a re-valve is mandatory. In all Fairness Sam at strano doesn't either but he makes it sound like your car is crap if you don't.

After reading your post I felt better about just getting the standard HD's for my street car and weekend drag racer. I don't autocross or anything I just want something that handles decent and doesn't feel like a cadillac.

Are you implying that the pro-kit I have is bad or What? Not trying to be a smartass just trying to get some good information before I plop down 400 bucks on shocks!!!

Bobby

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

How the hell did my first post get here and not the post on the link????????????????????

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

and i think both mitch AND i, and maybe many others, completely agree with this statement. when i first bought my dms and bilstein's, i went to sam to speak with him about this setup - he didn't like it, and had very negative things to say about it. sam is a very nice person, and knows his stuff, but i don't think he understood what use my combo was going to see. i don't race my car, and don't have the intentions to. why would i need $500 shocks that are perfectly valved for my springs? all i DO know is that my hd's and my crazy progressive DMS springs feel amazing compared to what i used to drive on (stock suspension). i'm an average joe driver.

sam strano and bilstein will both tell you that if you have a stock spring-rate valved hd running on a higher spring rate than stock (over 20% higher) your ride will be "sloppy." they will both tell you to avoid the sloppiness you must have your shocks revalved. they tell you this because they are both shock experts, not because they understand that the average joe (that's us) doesn't care to have the perfect shock. in fact, all we (the average joe's) want is a shock that will last, and outperform the stock shocks we are trying to get rid of. that's all. sam and bilstein, we don't want any more.

but if you are really buying the "my car is crap if my shocks don't PERFECTLY match my spring's rate" then go with bilstein hd's and the prokit, because the spring rate's are only ever-so slightly higher than what the hd is *supposed* to handle as opposed to the huge spring rate increase that many other aftermarket springs offer. only do this IF you are convinced that the hd's will crap out on you and the ride quality will suck if you don't do it. but if you DO go with the prokit, don't complain about having a rough ride when you hit your bump stops all the damn time because the prokit is so damn soft your only other alternative when listening to people like sam is to buy his revalved shocks and then match them accordingly with whichever springs he sees fit. then prepare to spend a hell of a lot of money. either way you are taking the hard way out if you are just like me and nothing more than an average joe driver IMO.

i think sam probably revalves hd's very well, and very efficiently. they are probably a great ride. are they necessary? i, like mitch, would definetely have to disagree, and especially so if you don't autocross. mitch races, and he still disagrees. make your own choices.

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

Well see that is what I wanted to hear really, everyone is always acting like if you don't go re-valved then you are just settling....


I already have the pro kit I had Hyperco's on my LT1 car and LOVED them with AGX's (again a shock that gets no love but works just fine for the average Joe plus I pulled 1.75 60fts all day long). I am actually going to change out the spring as well cause the rear of the pro kit is really kinda crazy. I don't get how people like these springs?

I've thought of the DMS but the rears I've seen in the pics seem too high to me. The Hyperco's are too low with the long tubes I'm getting ready to install, but I might just go with them anyways. Did your rear "settle" with the DMS springs? Hotches seem good too but 1 inch doesn't seem like enough! Frustrating

Anyways none of my comments were meant at all as disagreements, I know VERY little about suspensions other than basics, and respect Mitch and yours experience and knowledge on the subject that is why I was making the comments. Its just nice to hear ACTUAL experience and not the love fest for the re-vavles! I'd like to go ground control and Koni\Bilstien but just can't afford it.

In my crack about wait till Sam sees this I was meaning just that he preaches the re-valves and although he does "Say" that reg HD Bilsteins are fine for the average driver he bags on the setup in the next line.

Thanks for the help guys now I need to choose a new spring and order some HD's I really can't stand the way the car rides now. The explainations and suggestions are very much appreciated

tuffluck

iTrader: (4)

http://community.webshots.com/album/78104585KFZvNx

there are some more pictures of dms springs on a camaro. do the rear springs settle? well, let's see if i can answer your question in a bit more of a technical manner. from the factory, the front sits lower than the rear - that's just how it works. a lot of people want to get a drop so that the car can sit level to the ground. a lot of people like the stock stance, but hate the wheel well space - those people include me. the dms springs lower the car *about* 1.3 inches in the front and the back. the prokit, although you'll hear different things from different people, will drop the back a little more than the front. a lot of people refer to this as "the rear sags with the prokit" syndrome people with dms refer to the stock stance, only ~1.3" lower as the "the rear didn't drop any" syndrome. besides the latter being totally incorrect (the back still drops a LOT, just not as much as the front), you are still going to have to decide which kit you prefer.

personally, i think the dms kit looks incredible. i wasn't much of a fan of having the stock stance, but once i got the kit on, i really thought it WAS the best possible look a camaro could have. i have friends with other kits and tire sizes and etc, and i don't think the look even compares. neither do my friends. and sometimes, the lower you go, the bigger the rims have to be to compensate, and then wheel spacers are probably needed, and fenders might even have to be rolled! what a pain! with my dms, i didn't need any of that and i don't have any clearance issues either. it's an amazing look. so, in other words, the dms kit probably doesn't settle anymore than what you've seen, because the back will always ride slightly higher than the front. it's noticeable to me only because i made it a point to see the front/back height difference. it's probably hardly noticeable (if at all) to anyone else that sees your car due to the stance being ever-so slight. even so, it is made to sit a little higher in the rear. i've learned to love it.

and the comment about getting koni's and bilsteins - what would be the point? driving around town you are not ever going to get the issue of NEEDING the $700 shocks over the bilstein $300 ones, and if you do (because i know some will disagree with me), will it really be $400 worth of improvement? hell no.

i was in your exact same boat not long ago, and just needed a friendly word of advice from someone who had been-there and done-that that i didn't need to listen to sam strano to have a good ride or i'd wind up spending a lot more than what i had originally spent. and i DEFINETELY didn't need to listen to the guy if i wanted suspension advice. someone that has taken the strano route will probably tell you the same things i've said, only the exact opposite. please take my advice that you don't need to spend the extra money. i'm quite certain that the non-revalved hd's would feel no different on an average joe's car than revalved one's would. just my opinion. i'll get pictures of my ride with the dms kit as soon as i get a camera or borrow one. glad i could help you out

SS Express

I also had 2 or 3 long discussions with Sam before making my suspension decision. In the end I went with the Hotchkis/Bilstein HD setup which I really like. It really came down to what I wanted from the car. I knew I was never going to race this car, so I could not see spending almost twice as much for the Prokit/Revalve. Whether this was right or wrong, I don't know. But I do know that I am very happy with my decision to go with the HD's. I love the way my car handles and rides.

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

Hmmm after looking at those pic I think I'm going to go that route the main reason I didn't go with the Hyperco's in the first place is because people said the rear end sagged well this is a sagging rear end (my car with Pro Kit)

http://home.comcast.net/~moton.b/wsb...--graphic.html

You can't really tell with that picture but the rear Definately seems lower. So I think I'll go DMS and HD's the only reason I would want the Konis up front is for the drag strip for a little weight distribution. But your right I could spend that 400 eslewhere!

Thanks again for the help!!

Bobby

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

We are in agreement ... sorry I was not 100% clear on that.

While I'm not from Missouri, I'm gonna have to be shown that revalving makes a real difference on a street car ... hell, on a track car as well.

I don't usually gamble with $400 in the pot.