VE Tuning Help
08-10-2010, 07:06 AM
#3
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There should be a table for you to tune your AFR error under boost (WOT). I'm not familiar with HPT (I use EFILive) but I'm guessing there should be a custom operating system for your application that would either expand the VE table for boost or have a secondary table.
08-10-2010, 08:05 PM
#7
I don't have a 2 bar map sensor and don't plan on buying a 2 bar os. Seriously I read all of the pros and cons for each and have decided for my setup this is what I want to do.
I am just looking for help to utilize what I already have. I know lots of people run MAF tunes I just want to make sure I am doing it right.
So does anyone even know the answers to my questions? Not a single question I have asked has been answered.
I am just looking for help to utilize what I already have. I know lots of people run MAF tunes I just want to make sure I am doing it right.
So does anyone even know the answers to my questions? Not a single question I have asked has been answered.
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08-10-2010, 10:59 PM
#10
In HPTuners, you need to go to engine -> airflow -> dynamic, and set the High RPM Disable constant to something low...whatever RPM is the lowest you could possibly spool the turbo...or lower (just set it to something lower than you even idle at, then the car will always run completely off the MAF and not the VE table).
Once you've done that, go start logging AFR from your wideband against commanded afr, in the MAF table...and tune the MAF...
Hope you don't max the MAF out...then you'll be kicking yourself for not spending the $100 to upgrade to a 2 or 3 bar OS, and the $40-50 (or whatever...less than $100) for a brand new 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor...all that money on a turbo setup, and not willing to spend a TINY amount on the PCM to make it really REALLY run right...is kinda just a waste.
Once you've done that, go start logging AFR from your wideband against commanded afr, in the MAF table...and tune the MAF...
Hope you don't max the MAF out...then you'll be kicking yourself for not spending the $100 to upgrade to a 2 or 3 bar OS, and the $40-50 (or whatever...less than $100) for a brand new 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor...all that money on a turbo setup, and not willing to spend a TINY amount on the PCM to make it really REALLY run right...is kinda just a waste.
08-11-2010, 05:26 AM
#11
08-11-2010, 07:42 AM
#12
Biggest problem with tuning a turbo car via MAF is turbo boost isn't linear. You end up in a bad spot making boost in the wrong area of your MAF table, and you'll be wishin you didn't cheap out on the 75 dollar 2 bar map, and 100 bucks for the additional credits.
08-11-2010, 09:15 AM
#13
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What everyone is trying to tell you is this: YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. You spent the $ on a turbo setup, spend the money on the 2-3bar sensor and upgrade your OS. What PSI are you running? Your MAF likely can't even measure that much airflow accurately. You might be able to get CLOSE by hacking your IFR tables... but notice the word HACK.
08-11-2010, 10:36 AM
#14
Thanks for all the help. Lots of good info. Everyones time is greatly appreciated.
It is not the money for the sensor and os that is stopping me. Like I said I have read lots of post about the pros and cons for each. These are reasons I choose a MAF tune:
1. lots of elevation changes out here
2. lots of different weather out here
3. Car will see very little track time so I am more concerned about all around drive-ability.
If I don't like the final results of the MAF tune I will try the SD tune. But for now the negatives at least to me don't seem to be worth it. So unless there are some work arounds that people aren't sharing I will continue with MAF tune.
It is not the money for the sensor and os that is stopping me. Like I said I have read lots of post about the pros and cons for each. These are reasons I choose a MAF tune:
1. lots of elevation changes out here
2. lots of different weather out here
3. Car will see very little track time so I am more concerned about all around drive-ability.
If I don't like the final results of the MAF tune I will try the SD tune. But for now the negatives at least to me don't seem to be worth it. So unless there are some work arounds that people aren't sharing I will continue with MAF tune.
08-11-2010, 11:05 AM
#16
Thanks for all the help. Lots of good info. Everyones time is greatly appreciated.
It is not the money for the sensor and os that is stopping me. Like I said I have read lots of post about the pros and cons for each. These are reasons I choose a MAF tune:
1. lots of elevation changes out here
2. lots of different weather out here
3. Car will see very little track time so I am more concerned about all around drive-ability.
If I don't like the final results of the MAF tune I will try the SD tune. But for now the negatives at least to me don't seem to be worth it. So unless there are some work arounds that people aren't sharing I will continue with MAF tune.
It is not the money for the sensor and os that is stopping me. Like I said I have read lots of post about the pros and cons for each. These are reasons I choose a MAF tune:
1. lots of elevation changes out here
2. lots of different weather out here
3. Car will see very little track time so I am more concerned about all around drive-ability.
If I don't like the final results of the MAF tune I will try the SD tune. But for now the negatives at least to me don't seem to be worth it. So unless there are some work arounds that people aren't sharing I will continue with MAF tune.
Do you REALLY think you'd get 3-4 professional tuners (in this ONE thread) recommending something that doesn't work with changes in altitude or temperature/weather? God where does that even come from; I am so sick of hearing it.... ...Or that even though we have done what you are doing hundreds of times over, that somehow we are all wrong here.
08-11-2010, 11:10 AM
#17
I don't know where you read what you did, but there is a lot of internet myth in there. I expect that more from the bolt ons guys than the guys that own their own software.
Do you REALLY think you'd get 3-4 professional tuners (in this ONE thread) recommending something that doesn't work with changes in altitude or temperature/weather? God where does that even come from; I am so sick of hearing it.... ...Or that even though we have done what you are doing hundreds of times over, that somehow we are all wrong here.
Do you REALLY think you'd get 3-4 professional tuners (in this ONE thread) recommending something that doesn't work with changes in altitude or temperature/weather? God where does that even come from; I am so sick of hearing it.... ...Or that even though we have done what you are doing hundreds of times over, that somehow we are all wrong here.
08-11-2010, 12:08 PM
#18
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Not trying to be a jerk, but from the very first post, the questions you are asking are indicating that you don't have the knowledge to tune a turbo car... you may want to consider getting some help or taking it to someone. A turbo setup is not the place to learn or it may be a very costly lesson...
08-11-2010, 03:55 PM
#19
Thanks for everyones time and help.
Just about all of the stickies including the one on this site states those and other things as cons for SD. I know I can't believe everything that I read but SD seems to have a lot of negative press. I am asking questions which is all anyone can do to help filter out good from bad.
I am not saying that SD won't work or that you guys are wrong either. I am only looking for help to make sure that I get the best MAF tune possible.
I am a novice tuner but have to start somewhere. As you pros did as well. I have already paid twice to get this car tuned and have not been happy. Wide open throttle the car has been fine and has always had good AFR and no knock. It has had idle surge issues and throttle transition problems from closed loop to PE. This is when I bought HPT and tuning book master EFI tuner and studied anything I could find. I decided to learn on my own rather then pay again.
I posted about base running idle air issue and was told VE and MAF tables were still stock and that the tune was basically a PE hack job. I took the advice of those individuals and read up on as much info as I could and essentially started over with the tune to see if I could improve what I already had.
I am definitely not going into this blind, I have a car mounted WB O2, lean switch, HPT pro. and boost controller\gauge.
BLK02WS6:
After reading your post I understand your statement about MAF and VE. I wanted to make sure that you were not telling me it was OK to hack the PE table.
Progress so far: VE table is updated and throttle transition problem is gone. I just finished the MAF table with no boost and will be working on MAF table with boost\PE soon.
Am I heading in the right direction?
Just about all of the stickies including the one on this site states those and other things as cons for SD. I know I can't believe everything that I read but SD seems to have a lot of negative press. I am asking questions which is all anyone can do to help filter out good from bad.
I am not saying that SD won't work or that you guys are wrong either. I am only looking for help to make sure that I get the best MAF tune possible.
I am a novice tuner but have to start somewhere. As you pros did as well. I have already paid twice to get this car tuned and have not been happy. Wide open throttle the car has been fine and has always had good AFR and no knock. It has had idle surge issues and throttle transition problems from closed loop to PE. This is when I bought HPT and tuning book master EFI tuner and studied anything I could find. I decided to learn on my own rather then pay again.
I posted about base running idle air issue and was told VE and MAF tables were still stock and that the tune was basically a PE hack job. I took the advice of those individuals and read up on as much info as I could and essentially started over with the tune to see if I could improve what I already had.
I am definitely not going into this blind, I have a car mounted WB O2, lean switch, HPT pro. and boost controller\gauge.
BLK02WS6:
After reading your post I understand your statement about MAF and VE. I wanted to make sure that you were not telling me it was OK to hack the PE table.
Progress so far: VE table is updated and throttle transition problem is gone. I just finished the MAF table with no boost and will be working on MAF table with boost\PE soon.
Am I heading in the right direction?
