Negative Trader Feedback - 223Hawk ripped me off!

Hey all,

Here is the link for the original thread.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1225379-gi-4-chrome-firehawk-wheels.html

I have been waiting a long time to be able to tell this story. It has been a long time since the incident but I had not “earned the right” to post my story since I wasn’t a prominent member. Well now I can finally put this out there for people to see what 223Hawk did to me.

I am sure some of you know 223Hawk, he seems to be a prominent member here. Well, he was selling his Firehawk wheels for $650. I looked through the pictures and asked him some questions. He seemed like a nice guy so I ended up buying them. In his thread he talks about the wheels being in “great shape.”

They show up in the mail (in a timely matter) and they looked good to me. I was pleased with my purchase and left 223Hawk some positive feedback. I didn’t have the money to buy tires right away as I spent almost all my cash on the wheels. I am just a 20 year old guy and was working part time for that money. I am sure many of you know what that is like. So I put the wheels back in their boxes and saved up until I could buy tires.

Around two months later, the day finally came that I could afford to buy tires. I took my car down to Discount Tire and picked out the tires I wanted. I waited around for a couple hours before they got around to my car. They take the wheels to the machine to balance them and the employee stopped and called me over. He informed me that the wheel he was trying to balance was bent. He said he would do his best to balance it. He ended up calling me back over there two more times! 3 of the 4 wheels were bent! They said that 2 of them were really bad. They described the damage as most likely being caused by careless driving over potholes at high speeds. They also told me that there was NO chance the previous owner had no idea they were bent.

I was extremely frustrated but decided to give 223Hawk the benefit of the doubt. So I sent him a message to let him know they were bent and told him that I believed some sort of action should be taken. He seemed to be in denial and told me how the place that he had the tires balanced never told him they were bent.

I told him I would be willing to get documentation from Discount if he did not want to take my word for it and that I would be looking to get some quotes for wheel repair. He responded by saying that documentation would not be necessary. He went on to say that he believed it was caused in shipping and told me that I should contact UPS. Well despite the fact that it is nearly impossible that the wheels were bent in shipping, it is the responsibility of the seller to sort out shipping problems. But that is not really a big deal since these just simply were not damaged during shipping. He also said that simply because it had been 2 months, he felt he should accept no responsibility. He then proceeded to criticize me for not replying fast enough.

At this point I was starting to get really pissed. I explained how I did not pay for damaged wheels. Damaged wheels are not in “great shape” (as described in his ad). I also explained that it was not feasible that they were damaged in shipping. I told him I wanted him to either cover repairs or give me half my money back.

223Hawk claims to be an honest guy, and I thought he was nice when I first interacted with him. But he stopped replying after that. I still have heard nothing from him even though he is obviously still an active member.

I finally got a chance to take the wheels to get fixed and got another wonderful surprise. They fixed the lips of the wheels (wheel straightening) but they informed me that 2 of the wheels had bent spokes. This is an irreversible type of damage. I paid $390. So while they fixed the outer lip of all the wheels, two of them will never be 100% fixed. So if I ever want my car to have wheels that are not damaged, I would have to replace at least two of my wheels!

To summarize, I paid $650 dollars + $390. That is $1040 that I invested in damaged wheels. Wheels that were said to be in “great shape” even though 2 of them are permanently damaged. I realize that 2 months is awhile to wait before letting him know but there is no way I could have known before I took them to be balanced. People who install and balance wheels for a living couldn’t tell just by looking at them. Sorry I don’t have a balancing machine at home nor am I a wheel specialist. All I know is there is no way these wheels were damaged while they sat in their boxes in my garage waiting to be installed.

I just want money to cover the repairs but 223Hawk is so mature that he won’t even reply to my messages anymore. Thanks if you read through all of this, I just wanted my story to be heard. I doubt 223Hawk will own up and make it right.

This is the reason that I never buy from forums. There is little to no recourse. Now saying this, I would have taken the wheels to a place that works with rims and tires to have them checked out and inspected immediately. Also another piece of advise from now on use pay pal. They have many resources if you dispute the exchange of funds for merchandise and it seems they seller was not being upfront or misrepresented his items. I am also sure there is another side of the story I hope that the seller at least responds if not then we know where the truth lies.

Very interesting, I would really like to see what 223Hawk has to say about this.

Well I know 223hawk and saw him running those wheels. The weren't bent.

He got a new set of wheels in the mail, and when they got there one of them was bent to HELL...and this is from the company not the forums. He had to send it back and get it fixed. So apparently they can be damaged in shipping...

Idk 223 is one of my good buddies and i have a hard time believing that he sold you "bent" wheels.

Sorry for the wheels though...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/user-support-resources/1265358-might-have-issue-buyer.html

I understand being mad and upset with something you bought and it wasnt what it was said to be. I was up front and told everything I knew about the wheels. They were a USED item. I knew NOTHING about the wheels being bent. I had drove the car the day before I took the tires off. NO vibrations and no issues ever when I had tires put on. He contacted Paypal and tryed to file a complaint against me and basically it said, tough shit, you waited too long to do anything about it. It was more than 50 or 60 days, I cant remember off the top of my head. I personally would have taken the wheels to the tire shop that day just to check them out, with or with out tires. I just spent $2600 on a set of wheels adn they showed up bent! How do you think i felt? They were BRAND NEW.

I NEVER had any issues with the wheels. The car is not my daily driver, and has not been beat on. I cant believe that the spokes of the wheels were bent also. Im not paying to fix something that took you MONTHS to come forward with an issue. Its been 4 months since he filed a complaint with Paypal. He paid for them in Feb. and shortly after that, he would have received them.

I was honest and up front about everything I knew was wrong with them. I sell everything like that. I dont try to rip people off. If he would have acted in time, paypal would have assured him he would have got some kind of refund, but Months later, who knows what could have been done to them. Theres always 2 sides to a story, but I can assure you, they were not bent while on my car, and they had ALWAYS balanced out just fine and never any vibrations.

Im done, Im not going to argue with this fool, he contacts me and says to me, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ME??..and threatens me with taking other actions. Looks like his other actions didnt work, Im done!

I have to agree with 223HAWK here. If the wheels were bent in shipping and you didn't check it out for months there is no chance to file a claim against UPS.
If you had let him know immediately he could have had UPS take care of it, but you didn't give him that chance.

I understand being mad and upset with something you bought and it wasnt what it was said to be. I was up front and told everything I knew about the wheels. They were a USED item. I knew NOTHING about the wheels being bent. I had drove the car the day before I took the tires off. NO vibrations and no issues ever when I had tires put on. He contacted Paypal and tryed to file a complaint against me and basically it said, tough shit, you waited too long to do anything about it. It was more than 50 or 60 days, I cant remember off the top of my head. I personally would have taken the wheels to the tire shop that day just to check them out, with or with out tires. I just spent $2600 on a set of wheels adn they showed up bent! How do you think i felt? They were BRAND NEW.

Interesting choice of words there. You are saying you understand about buying something that was not what it was said to be. And you are saying it in relation to my story about the wheels you sold me. You are admitting that you realize what I bought and what I received were two different things. Interesting... You admit that I have reason to be upset over the fact that I bought something that arrived not as advertised. You are the seller, which means you are the one who sold me the items that were not what they were supposed to be. And yet you did not and have not done anything about it.

Although I thoroughly enjoyed your anecdote about your wheels, it hardly seems relevant to my situation for a few reasons. First, according to your buddy's post, only one of your wheels showed up bent. I received three bent wheels. I wish only one of them would have shown up bent. Also your wheel showed up visibly damaged. I did look at mine and if they had arrived noticeably damaged, you would have known immediately. I had no reason to believe they were bent since I looked at them and the boxes (this is important) showed up with absolutely no signs of damage. It would be a little difficult for the wheels to be damaged without hurting the box don't you think? Finally, in your situation, it would appear that you contacted the seller and they agreed to fix the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I am getting from the posts. My seller refused to take any sort of action. So while you have a resolution, my situation remains unresolved over six months after the fact.



I NEVER had any issues with the wheels. The car is not my daily driver, and has not been beat on. I cant believe that the spokes of the wheels were bent also. Im not paying to fix something that took you MONTHS to come forward with an issue. Its been 4 months since he filed a complaint with Paypal. He paid for them in Feb. and shortly after that, he would have received them.

Whether you choose to believe it or not does not change the fact that I am the one who has to deal with these wheels.

I decided to go back and look at the dates of the PMs since 223Hawk says I waited "MONTHS" to come forward with the issue. All of you would be interested to know that I PMed him on February 23 to let him know that the wheels arrived. I PMed him again on April 6 informing him that the wheels were bent. It would really seem that I waited "MONTHS," huh? That is 42 days.

Please read posts before you comment. Yes it has been four months since I tried to file the dispute with Paypal but that is solely because I was not permitted to post in this forum until recently.

Furthermore, let it be known that I offered to get a letter from Discount Tire showing documentation of the bent wheels or whatever proof he wanted me to get. He said he believed that they were bent.



I was honest and up front about everything I knew was wrong with them. I sell everything like that. I dont try to rip people off. If he would have acted in time, paypal would have assured him he would have got some kind of refund, but Months later, who knows what could have been done to them. Theres always 2 sides to a story, but I can assure you, they were not bent while on my car, and they had ALWAYS balanced out just fine and never any vibrations.

There he goes with the "Months" thing again. Leave gross exaggerations out of arguments where time actually means something.

The fact that they balanced out on your car is completely irrelevant because they definitely did not balance out when put on my car and they were confirmed to be damaged. Whether they came off your car bent or they were bent in shipping is not really my concern. It is the responsibility of the seller to remedy situations with damaged items. Either way, it has been agreed that what I received is different from what was advertised. Still, you have taken no action.



Im done, Im not going to argue with this fool, he contacts me and says to me, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ME??..and threatens me with taking other actions. Looks like his other actions didnt work, Im done!

Yes I am a fool for doing business with you, that much is clear. Say what you will but do not slander me. I challenge you to show me exactly where I said, "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ME??" I can assure you I did no such thing.

I did say I would take other actions. Unfortunately, I was out of the time frame for the Paypal dispute. Though it is ironic that if the time frame for the dispute would have been measured after the date I received the wheels and not based on the purchase date, I would have been within the 45 day limit.

What I was meaning by starting off my post was I see Why your mad. Iv bought a lot of stuff online and know what its like to get something messed up. I paid $350 for a set of tail lights for my old car and they showed up broke, and junk. I tryed getting ahold of the seller and he never replyed. Anyway To my knowledge I knew nothing about the wheels being bent. I told you they had the typical bubbling that they all have.That was the only thing that was wrong with them when I had them. I continue tosay I NEVER had an issue with the wheels being blanced or vibrating going down the road. Sorry I was incorrect in quoting your exact words, you were asking when was I going to do something about this. I dont feel its my place to help you after all this time. If this was done in a timely fashoin maybe, I do not know what YOU could have dont with the wheels. You say they were in boxes and never on the car, Well You dont believe me when I say the wheels were not bent when I owned them All 4 were in great shape. I dont need a letter telling me they are bent, because they very well could be but I cant not prove that something didnt happen to them in shipping or that you have had them on your car and get in a wreck, and Iv read that your car was in one, after the fact that you bought my wheels. Im not saying thats what happend, just doing some digging like you have. Ask anyone that knows me personally, I wouldnt rip off anyone just to do it, I hated to sell the wheels and wouldtn have if they would have fit my new rearend. Honestly I have been looking to find another set and run spacers on the back just so I can drive the car and not worry if its raining. My car gets drove maybe 5000 miles a year. I dont beat on it and never drive ruff roads. Acually I had to send two OTHER wheels of mine back because the tire shop said tehy were bent, after doing so, the wheel company says, they are not bent, it was the tires I was using, Changed tires and never had an issue with them balancing out. I would have taken them to another tire shop and see if they could have balanced them out before you try to make me pay and say I ripped you off. I clearly did not and had NO intension of doing so..

heres a few of our PMs:



When are you going to do something about this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 223HAWK
Austin, Im still in the air about this. I cant believe the wheels are bent. Its not that I dont believe you or need a letter from a tire shop. Iv had a car (87 Trans Am) That the GTA wheels were bent, Yeah that sucked but who I knew a guy back then that could balance tires and take most of that out. I truly think they may have been bent in shipping! I think you need to contact UPS. I just dont know! The day they came off my car, I had drove the car, and NEVER any vibration at all. Not to be a Dick but you waited 2 months to get tires, then tell me they are bent. Im sorry but I dont feel I should pay for the repairs. If something would have came up sooner, I might be a lot more flexible, but this is more than 2 Months AFTER purchase. You got the Firehawk wheels at a VERY good price! If this was me, and I was very concerned about this, I would not wait days in between emails(Messages on ls1tech) and stay on top of this.

Thanks
Joey




Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastBuster
I cannot think of any reason why the people would not tell you that your wheels were bent... But the people over here at Discount Tire told me that there was no way you could not have known these were bent. But you seem to be an honest guy so I believe you were unaware but I find it very hard to believe that the people at Big-O could have missed it if they tried to balance them. I understand that you might not want to just take my word for it so if there is anything you want me to do (Letter from Discount, etc) let me know. I do need to get these fixed soon though, as vibrations are actually very noticeable... And they put the least bent wheel up front. I am gonna try and find some shops that straighten wheels and get back to you on what they quote me.

Thanks,

-Austin


Quote:
Originally Posted by 223HAWK
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastBuster
Hey man I just had the wheels mounted today and unfortunately there is a problem... 3 of the wheels are bent. The employee balancing them called me over just so he could show me how bent they were. I am not looking to stir any trouble but I believe some sort of action needs to be taken. I paid a lot of money for wheels in really good condition. I will say that I do plan on keeping them so I am not looking to return. Just looking for some cooperation since I was told that fixing them will most likely cost more than I paid for them.

Thanks,

-Austin

Hey,

Really? I always took them to a Big-O Tire, its my local store, they all know me very well and I have had 2 different sets of tires mounted on them. NEVER have they told me they were bent nor did I feel any vibrations. I would always ask EVERY time they were off the car if they balanced out fine and the answer was Yes every time! I really dont know how to work this out because when they were shipped they were in great/ non bent shape??Maybe it was something that happend in shipping. Never once has my car had a vibration or odd feeling from bent wheels. The tires I used were a name brand tire (Nitto) and all mounted by professionals at a Big O Tire! Iv seen very shitty Firehawk wheels go for more than what I got out of these..


Thanks
Joey

What a mess. I doubt I would have checked them for straightness right away either, but I will know to do that if I ever buy wheels.

Even if you would have filed a UPS claim... Unless they were in bullet-proof boxes with 12" of high density foam padding on every side, they'd probably write it off as insufficient packaging. Which in that case, it would be between you, the seller, and paypal (if necessary) to work out a resolution, which probably would have resulted in you getting all your money back, or having him foot the bill for all the repairs.

The seller refunding you half of the cost for repairs seems fair based on the fact that it did take you quite a while to have them inspected, but in reality, he isn't obligated to do anything.

Judgement in favor of the plantiff for $195 <smacks gabble> :gruffy:

I thought about this, when my wheels showed up, they were my front wheels for my car. The box had NO damange anywere, inside or out and both wheels were bent bad. One you could see the other you could no see. The boxes were brand new and still could not tell that they had been dropped or beat on in anyway..

What a mess. I doubt I would have checked them for straightness right away either, but I will know to do that if I ever buy wheels.

Even if you would have filed a UPS claim... Unless they were in bullet-proof boxes with 12" of high density foam padding on every side, they'd probably write it off as insufficient packaging. Which in that case, it would be between you, the seller, and paypal (if necessary) to work out a resolution, which probably would have resulted in you getting all your money back, or having him foot the bill for all the repairs.

The seller refunding you half of the cost for repairs seems fair based on the fact that it did take you quite a while to have them inspected, but in reality, he isn't obligated to do anything.

Judgement in favor of the plantiff for $195 <smacks gabble> :gruffy:

Thank you for the support. Yes I have learned a lot from this experience and will be a lot more careful in the future.

What I was meaning by starting off my post was I see Why your mad. Iv bought a lot of stuff online and know what its like to get something messed up. I paid $350 for a set of tail lights for my old car and they showed up broke, and junk. I tryed getting ahold of the seller and he never replyed.

Yes that does suck and I'm sorry the seller did that to you. It was wrong of him to do that just as it was wrong what you did. It seems that you have had a lot of experience with people screwing you over, so you should understand how I feel. Just as you wanted resolutions for your situations, that is all I wanted.

I dont feel its my place to help you after all this time. If this was done in a timely fashoin maybe, I do not know what YOU could have dont with the wheels.

All this time? I told you all the way back in April they were bent. The time that has passed since then is not my fault since you are the one who started ignoring my messages.

You say they were in boxes and never on the car, Well You dont believe me when I say the wheels were not bent when I owned them All 4 were in great shape.

I continuously said in my PMs that I believed you were an honest guy and that I believed you were unaware. It was not until you made it clear that you weren't going to do anything about it and then ignored me that I started to believe otherwise.

I dont need a letter telling me they are bent, because they very well could be but I cant not prove that something didnt happen to them in shipping or that you have had them on your car and get in a wreck, and Iv read that your car was in one, after the fact that you bought my wheels. Im not saying thats what happend, just doing some digging like you have.

The seller is responsible for shipping damages. So if they were indeed damaged in shipping, it's on you.

As for my car being in a wreck, whatever obscure source you got that information from is completely false. I literally have no idea where you could have possibly even read that. Since I have owned my car in 2007, it has been in one accident. It was the winter of that same year. So I can guarantee my car being in a wreck did not damage these wheels. Besides, if that were indeed the case wouldn't it make sense that I would have insurance cover it instead of paying for the repairs out of my own pocket? If you are going to try and post theories, at least make sure they make sense first.

I have done no 'digging.' There is a big difference between 'digging' and going off information that is presented to me. Everything I said was based off things you and your friend, ta-stanger, posted in this thread.

Ask anyone that knows me personally, I wouldnt rip off anyone just to do it, I hated to sell the wheels and wouldtn have if they would have fit my new rearend. Honestly I have been looking to find another set and run spacers on the back just so I can drive the car and not worry if its raining. My car gets drove maybe 5000 miles a year. I dont beat on it and never drive ruff roads. Acually I had to send two OTHER wheels of mine back because the tire shop said tehy were bent, after doing so, the wheel company says, they are not bent, it was the tires I was using, Changed tires and never had an issue with them balancing out. I would have taken them to another tire shop and see if they could have balanced them out before you try to make me pay and say I ripped you off. I clearly did not and had NO intension of doing so..

The fact that you did not mean to rip me off or what other people say about your character has no weight on this case. What does matter, however, is that when told the wheels were damaged, you refused to do anything about it and stopped replying to my messages. That says more about your character than other people's opinions about you.

For the record, three different shops saw the wheels. Discount Tire, when I went to have the wheels mounted. A tire shop/wheel repair shop in Aurora IL when I was looking for repair quotes. Then finally Chicago Wheels where I paid for the repairs and was informed of the two bent spokes. By the way, it wouldn't have made a difference if I would have only taken them to Discount because the employee called me over to the balance machine. I saw with my own eyes that they were bent. It became very apparent when they were spinning on the machine.

Well apparently 223Hawk has nothing more to say.

To anyone who might consider doing business with him I ask that you think twice. He has not owned up to this and as such has cost me a lot of money.

i see both stories and heres my conclusion... beastbuster you bought used wheels that are bent.. 223hawk sold wheels that were bent without knowing... i worked for the tire company for 7 years (discount tire ,americas tire etc) and we never checked wheels when or after dismantling tires from the rim or removing from the vehicle unless we balanced them again with new TIRES... 223hawk probably didnt ask the workers to test spin the rims on the balancer before he sold them nobody usually does...223hawk learned his lesson from this and beastbuster will know that you should check things right away now since this experience...ive been buying things off the internet for a long time and its my responsibility to not get burned !!! oh yeah beast buy some used tires for your used rims and run the damn things, you probably wont even notice.. bent rims are exaggerated sometimes versus what you feel..

Yeah, have you even tried to get the wheels mounted/balanced? It's likely that you wont even notice. Also, I know neither of you. But I'm with 223Hawk on this one. If a seller sent me a message after 40+days of having a set of wheels that I sold them, I would have a hard time refunding any sort of money bc they are "now" bent. Who knows what happened to the wheels in that time frame. Also, if you spent $390 getting 2 of the wheels repaired, and then the shop came back saying that the spokes were bent and the wheels actually aren't repairable. I would personally be seeking a refund from the wheel repair shop. Bc whyTF are they going to "repair" the wheels and charge you $390, then come back and say they're damaged beyond repair. Could they not figure that out before having you pay the $390? Sounds like a shady MF shop to me.

sounds like a shady consumer to me lmao

I call for a cage match, looser eats the cost of the wheels! LOL. Both buyer and seller have good points. I'd say it's a good chance seller sold bent wheels without knowing and hopefully would have rectified the problem if it had been brought to his attention in a timely manner. Unfortunatly buyer didn't check the wheels when he got them. You have to check these things right away or you cant really blame the seller for being skeptical - I mean wouldn't you be if the shoe was on the other foot?

i see both stories and heres my conclusion... beastbuster you bought used wheels that are bent.. 223hawk sold wheels that were bent without knowing... i worked for the tire company for 7 years (discount tire ,americas tire etc) and we never checked wheels when or after dismantling tires from the rim or removing from the vehicle unless we balanced them again with new TIRES... 223hawk probably didnt ask the workers to test spin the rims on the balancer before he sold them nobody usually does...223hawk learned his lesson from this and beastbuster will know that you should check things right away now since this experience...ive been buying things off the internet for a long time and its my responsibility to not get burned !!! oh yeah beast buy some used tires for your used rims and run the damn things, you probably wont even notice.. bent rims are exaggerated sometimes versus what you feel..

I have been running them. It was when I went to Discount and bought new tires that I found they were bent. I had them put the wheels on my car anyways and yes I could feel it as soon as I got on the road. Even my passenger felt it.

Yeah, have you even tried to get the wheels mounted/balanced? It's likely that you wont even notice. Also, I know neither of you. But I'm with 223Hawk on this one. If a seller sent me a message after 40+days of having a set of wheels that I sold them, I would have a hard time refunding any sort of money bc they are "now" bent. Who knows what happened to the wheels in that time frame. Also, if you spent $390 getting 2 of the wheels repaired, and then the shop came back saying that the spokes were bent and the wheels actually aren't repairable. I would personally be seeking a refund from the wheel repair shop. Bc whyTF are they going to "repair" the wheels and charge you $390, then come back and say they're damaged beyond repair. Could they not figure that out before having you pay the $390? Sounds like a shady MF shop to me.

First off, I received and repaired three wheels, not two. Second, They repaired the part of the wheel that was repairable (the outer lip). All the wheels had lip damage and two had bent spokes. All of this was explained in the first post. They managed to get the wheels to balance (after repairing all the lips) but they still informed me that there was nothing that they or anybody could do about bent spokes.

I call for a cage match, looser eats the cost of the wheels! LOL. Both buyer and seller have good points. I'd say it's a good chance seller sold bent wheels without knowing and hopefully would have rectified the problem if it had been brought to his attention in a timely manner. Unfortunatly buyer didn't check the wheels when he got them. You have to check these things right away or you cant really blame the seller for being skeptical - I mean wouldn't you be if the shoe was on the other foot?

I do not blame him for being skeptical. I do blame him for the way in which he has handled this situation. I offered to get him any kind of proof he needed to show him that this was not my doing. Discount Tire took the wheels out of the box they were shipped in and put them right on my car. What could I have possibly done to them? If 223hawk wanted proof he should have asked for it instead of telling me that it wasn't necessary and then ignore me so that it had to get to this point.

That f ing sucks!!

I read your posts whyTF would you pay $390 to "repair" wheels that couldn't be repaired 100% bc of the bent spokes??

Well the way rim straightening works is that there is mainly one type of damage that is repairable and other types that are not (I am no expert but this is what I have picked up from the various shops I talked to). Wheels that are bent on the outer lip are repairable whereas any damage to the spoke is not. The service that the shop offered pertains to straightening. And since all three wheels needed straightening they did their job. It sucks that they can't fix bent spokes but they still did the job they offered so at 130 per wheel it came to $390. So yeah I am pissed that I had to pay to repair bent wheels that I didn't damage and that two of them have bent spokes. But at least now they balanced out and do not cause my car to vibrate like hell.

You should have counted your losses and sold them at a discount to someone.

Eh that might have been the best option but really the point is I shouldn't have to count my losses. If 223Hawk was the stand-up guy he claims to be, you would think he would show some interest in trying to get to the bottom of this. If you read the way in which he tries to defend himself it becomes obvious that he has just been trying to cover his ass from the beginning. Instead of accepting the possibility that I might be right and asking for proof, he tries to come up with any excuse he can think of. Suspicious if you ask me.

You're "proof" wouldn't have mattered much to me either since it was 40 days later. Anything could have happened to those wheels in that 40 day span.

Well apparently to Paypal, 40 days is an appropriate amount of time seeing as they allow you to dispute 45 days after payment. Unfortunately for me that is based on the payment date and not on the date you receive the items. Furthermore I could have easily went to the Discount I took my wheels to and had them write a letter not only verifying they were bent, but that they took them from the box they were shipped in and put them on my car. How would that not matter?

Just bc discount tire can write a letter saying they were taken out of boxes that they were shipped in means nothing to me. You could have gotten the tires taken off some where else and then went to discount with the wheels in the boxes. Or maybe you know someone at discount tire that could write something up for you. I'm not saying you did any of this, just stating that as a seller, there is no way to 100% trust the wheels hadn't been driven on. If you paid with a credit card, they can look at the situation and if they rule in your favor maybe they'll give you a chargeback.

There is also no way for me to know 100% that he didn't take a sledgehammer to them before he sold them. Just as there is no way to know that I couldn't have taken a sledgehammer to them myself. Neither of these a feasible. This is all about what makes sense and the facts. Thus far, no situation posted that would make me the dishonest one has made sense. First 223Hawk suggested that my car could have been in a wreck. Well if that happened it only makes sense that I would have insurance cover it especially considering I would imagine the accident would have to be pretty serious to damage 3 wheels.

Then you say I could have had taken them to one shop and then taken it another after the first dismounted them. Why on earth would I do this? What would I possibly gain from taking the wheels to be mounted (with new tires as the wheels did not come with any) at one shop and drive around on them for awhile before taking them back and asking them to swap back to my old wheels and take the tires off of the Firehawk wheels? Then I would go to the Discount I wrote about and have them swap them again. Well considering that I bought a set of new tires from Discount, what about the old tires that I would have to have bought seeing as the wheels I bought did not come with tires. So this would suggest that I paid for 3 trips to the shops and 2 new pairs of tires. For what? Seeing as I never asked for a refund, I asked for him to cover repairs, that would mean that I bought 2 pairs of tires and wasted all the time driving around to 2 different shops for $390? Yeah I would still be out of a lot of money. Furthermore this scenario also assumes that I would have been planning on trying to scam 223Hawk, and if it was my plan to scam him don't you think I would have told him the wheels were bent a lot sooner so I wouldn't risk him pulling any of the stuff he has pulled?

So let's have a recap of the facts:

-I paid 223Hawk $650 for wheels described in his ad as being in "great condition."

-I receive the wheels and look them over and they are seemingly fine so I put them in my garage.

-42 days later I PM 223Hawk to let him know they are bent after taking them to Discount Tire

-He makes excuses saying he can't believe they are bent

-I offer to get him any proof he wants me to get

-After another PM or two from him and he just stops replying

Now why would 223Hawk make up excuses and then just ignore me? Especially considering I was very civil throughout our conversation. That screams shady to me.

Now there seems to be a lot more scenarios that suggest that either 223Hawk knew they were bent when he sold them, He was unaware they were bent when he sold them, or that they were bent in shipping. Any of these scenarios would obviously still make him responsible and as you all can see he has done nothing and has even stopped replying in this thread.

Also I would like to point out that people rarely act without motivation. So why am I doing all of this? Surely if I was the dishonest one I would have just given up sometime within this past six months and accepted the fact that 223Hawk was not going to do anything. Quite the opposite is true, I was counting the days until I could post this thread. My motivation? The fact that I am out a lot of money for wheels I did not damage. To be heard and to get this out there for people so they will think twice before doing business with 223Hawk.

Furthermore, 223Hawk has not been able to discredit or disprove any of these options that would have him responsible. He has even stopped trying to come up with excuses to defend himself. And seeing as I have discredited the scenarios placing me at fault, it would seem far more likely that this one is on 223Hawk. He has had everything to gain (my money) and I have nothing but being out over a grand that I invested in these wheels.

Any before and after pics of the wheels regarding the repairs? Curious as to what was repaired. IMO the only problem with the argument is the time frame.

Im not going to argue and fight about whos right and who is wrong. If LS1tech wants to ban me for selling a set of USED wheels, that I knew nothing and stated all that I knew was wrong with them, being bent was not any of the issues that they had when I had them on my car, then thats up to them. I dont sell things on here for profit, I just couldnt use them with my new rearend and thought I would get rid of them. I dont have the time to get on here and try to prove my points. Im sorry but I didnt try to screw you intentionally.


I do not feel that I should help you, and after all this time I wont. I knew NOTHING about the wheels being bent. I have told you that many times. I feel the same way as Donohue96M6Z28, I have from the start of the first PM about being bent. I never had any problems with them and always balanced out fine. I stoped returning PMs because Im not going to help pay for something that at one time I owned and was in great shape. I have no idea how they got bent or damanged in anyway. I choose not to reply to any of this because I dont need to defend myself anymore. I told you..and have many times. I had drove my car with those tires the day I had the tires taken off the Firehawk wheels I sold you, never vibrated. I had put a set of Nitto Tires on the Hawk wheels right after I got it. No issues then. I had asked if they balanced out ok, they said Yes. So I knew nothing, felt nothing and still I tell you I didnt know that they were. I have no idea what has happened to them in those 42 days. Im sorry you feel I tryed to rip you off. Im not going to help pay for the repairs that were done to the wheels.

And yet the point you are constantly missing is that it doesn't matter if they were fine on your car because what arrived at my house was not fine. If they were damaged in shipping it is on you.

I will say this again, the seller (you) is responsible for shipping damages. As far as I am concerned you are lucky I didn't ask for a full refund and send the damn things back to you.

I did not say I believed that you intentionally screwed me over. I said that the most likely scenarios (seeing as I discredited the plausibility of all stories that would make me the one who damaged them) were that you either knew they were bent when selling, you didn't know they were bent when selling them, or that they were bent in shipping.

You were very adamant in saying that you did not sell them with the knowledge that they were bent and you actually know for a fact when they came off the car they were not bent. That knocks out two of the options mentioned earlier which only leaves one: shipping damage.

The reason why you can't really defend yourself is because you dodge all my key points and make sorry excuses about how they were fine on your car.



I do not feel that I should help you, and after all this time I wont.

Again, as I have stated before many times, the amount of time that has passed is completely and utterly your fault. You are the one who ignored me all the way up until this thread was made, which I made as soon as I was allowed.

Also to further concrete my argument that you are responsible for these wheels being damaged is a PM from you.



Austin, Im still in the air about this. I cant believe the wheels are bent. Its not that I dont believe you or need a letter from a tire shop. Iv had a car (87 Trans Am) That the GTA wheels were bent, Yeah that sucked but who I knew a guy back then that could balance tires and take most of that out. I truly think they may have been bent in shipping! I think you need to contact UPS. I just dont know! The day they came off my car, I had drove the car, and NEVER any vibration at all. Not to be a Dick but you waited 2 months to get tires, then tell me they are bent. Im sorry but I dont feel I should pay for the repairs. If something would have came up sooner, I might be a lot more flexible, but this is more than 2 Months AFTER purchase. You got the Firehawk wheels at a VERY good price! If this was me, and I was very concerned about this, I would not wait days in between emails(Messages on ls1tech) and stay on top of this.

Thanks
Joey

Here you have it everyone, 223Hawk personally says that even he believes they were damaged in shipping. And as I have stated countless times, the seller is responsible for shipping. I say this a lot because even though I continue saying it, somehow 223Hawk just skips over that bit and continues to say the wheels were fine before shipping.

Any before and after pics of the wheels regarding the repairs? Curious as to what was repaired. IMO the only problem with the argument is the time frame.

No, unfortunately I was very naive about this whole thing. Instead of gathering up as much proof as I could, I asked 223Hawk what proof he required. I didn't get any proof because he said he believed me but then after a few more PMs he ignored me. As for what was repaired, they repaired the outer lips of the wheels on the inside. Though that was not the only damage as two of them had (and still have) slightly bent spokes.

Which time frame? The time frame from then to now or the original time frame in which I told him they were bent after 42 days?

The 42 days.

Riddle me this. How in the HELL would you bend the spoke on a firehawk wheel? I understand they're thinner than a standard TA wheel, but they're still a really robust design. I can't even imagine what it would have taken to do something like that. I mean, we aren't talking an alumastar here....

The 42 days.

Yes it is unfortunate that I didn't know immediately, but I still don't think it is an unreasonable amount of time, seeing as Paypal gives you 45 days to make a dispute.

Riddle me this. How in the HELL would you bend the spoke on a firehawk wheel? I understand they're thinner than a standard TA wheel, but they're still a really robust design. I can't even imagine what it would have taken to do something like that. I mean, we aren't talking an alumastar here....

I have wondered the same thing since I found out. What makes it even more troubling is what I found out after calling a few wheel shops for their opinions on shipping wheels...

I called a couple shops and a wheel distributor (they send out many wheels a week) and asked them what are the chances of wheels being bent in shipping. They said that dings and other purely cosmetic blemishes are fairly common especially when shipping UPS but that they have never gotten a wheel back that wasn't straight anymore. One of the guys I talked to went so far as to say that he had no doubt in his mind that the wheels were put into their boxes already bent. They also said it was impossible for the spoke to be bent in shipping.

This was far from what I was hoping to hear, because this paints a much grimmer picture than I had hoped. Though the fact still remains, done in shipping or sent to me already bent, 223Hawk is responsible.

BEASTBUSTER:

Don't take my post as supporting you or 223Hawk.... I'm just still trying to figure out how that much damage could POSSIBLY happen. At this point, from the outside, there are too many variables to place blame on either party from an outside standpoint.

Yes, I understand there are a lot of variables and information to sort through. Though the fact that 223Hawk said that he believed they were damaged in shipping and did nothing about it should be more than enough to show that he didn't take his responsibility as a seller and correct the issue.

I have some new stuff I would like to post. I decided to go looking in my car and was very happy to find some receipts...

This proves that I bought my tires when I said I did. This also proves that I had to pay $390 for repairs. I also posted a couple pictures of one of my wheels so that people can see it is the same tire as listed in the receipt.

i dont see how the wheels could be bent in shipping without evidence of damage to the container its in, and then you would have checked on them more closely. i believe the only two possible scenarios are that 223 hawk had bent wheels that he sold to you, either knowingly or not. but from the sound of it, it would be hard not to notice if 3 wheels were bent enough to require repair. and he claims he drove on them the day he shipped them. and the other possibility is that you did something to the wheels once they were in your possesion. since it was 42 days till you noticed the damage, alot could have happened. only you know for sure. if you did as you say and brought them to discount 42 days later and found they were bent, 223hawk mustve known about it.

and on a side note, i dont think it is uncommon at all for someone to buy parts and not use them for several months. and sometimes you dont notice the issues and problems until you are actually putting things together.

I'm not picking sides by any means, just interested and I don't envy seller or buyers positions, I agree exactly with what 89LS1RS is saying, but at the same time if the wheels were bent enough to need to be repaired, that should have been easily caught with a quick visual inspection upon arrival which at that point contact should have been made with the seller. I also wasn't trying to imply that they should have been installed right away, shoot, I wish I had time to get all the parts on and stuff done that I have planned, but oh well. Side note: I do wonder about the repeated term of "balanced out ok" used by the seller instead of " true or round or straight " because a bent wheel can easily be balanced, but they don't ride smooth if they're not round.

Lol, saying the wheels ''balanced out ok'' means they had 0, NO issues balancing or driving. I always ask as many questions as I can when I have my car worked on by someone other than me. So I would ask if the they balanced out fine. Answer was yes. I had NO vibrations at any speeds in the car. I have nice roads around my town and a lot of it is new highway. I bought the car in April of 09, those were the factory wheels that were on the car at the time I got it. I put 3500-4000 total miles since Iv owned it, probably 2000-3000 on the orignal wheels with Nitto 555s on them. Always smooth. I would have thought in that amount of miles I would have felt something if they were bent or damaged. I never knew that the wheels had any problems, and I had said it could have happend in shipping, and seems unlikely but then again I got 2 brand new wheels that came bent.

Hawk, I know what you mean, we have customers that ask that all the time. Which is the perfect opportunity to let them know if there are issues such as bent wheels or out of round tires, just thought it odd not to specify it with some different wording. Also, did you notice the bent wheels you received before they were spun on a balancer? Just wondering, seems it would be obvious.

Guys, I posted the receipt for a reason- it has the date on it. April 5th. So unless I was driving around on the wheels with no tires there is no way I could have possibly damaged the wheels myself.

Am I the only one who notices 223Hawk ignoring key points every time he posts? He comes on here to clarify what he meant by "balancing out ok" but has said absolutely nothing about why he never took any action despite the fact that he said (and just repeated a couple posts up) he thinks they were damaged in shipping. Why is this? Perhaps he is fully aware he ignored his responsibility as a seller to correct such issues and, as such, is trying to confuse the issue and distract people away from this detail...

Hawk, I know what you mean, we have customers that ask that all the time. Which is the perfect opportunity to let them know if there are issues such as bent wheels or out of round tires, just thought it odd not to specify it with some different wording. Also, did you notice the bent wheels you received before they were spun on a balancer? Just wondering, seems it would be obvious.

I did look at the wheels upon their arrival, but seeing as the boxes showed no sign of abuse, I didn't inspect the wheels rigorously. I had no reason to believe anything was amiss. Upon taking them to Discount, even the employees didn't know they were bent just by looking at them. It only became obvious on the balancer. So no, I did not notice they were bent until I took them to Discount.

I'm being completely impartial here... You also posted the receipt from the wheel repair, which occured almost two months after you mounted and balanced the wheels. Why did it take so long to get them looked at by a wheel repair shop if you were concerned that they may have been bent. I wouldn't trust Discount Tire to tell me anything after seeing their work on numerous occasions.

Hawk didn't say that they WERE damaged in shipping, he admitted to it being a possibility. I can say him seing balancing out ok because if they did balance, didn't shake, etc. there would be no reason for him to have any thoughts that they might be bent. I don't send my rims to be checked for bends every time they are mounted or dismounted. Also, there's no way that the spokes were bent in shipping with no damage to the packaging.

At this point, due to the time tables, nobody can say for sure from the outside what happened. Even had you had the wheels repaired the same day you mounted the tires and they wouldn't balance, you could have put another set on and bent them prior to the receipts you are showing.

I know I sound like I'm attacking the OP, but I really just feel like there's no way anyone other than the two involved in the deal know the truth here. Bringing it here, and input from other forum members is not going to solve this.

Lastly, let this serve as a lesson... EVERYONE needs to check their parts when they get them. Shipping damage or poor sellers are much harder to recover losses from after time goes by. This is a perfect example.

Well said ryarbrough.

Austin (BeastBuster) is a stand up and honest guy that I have dealt with in the past on multiple occasions. I do not believe him to be creating a story here.
While I do not know how the wheels were damaged, I believe Austin when he says he did not have anything to do with them being bent.
I'm sorry he had to dish out so much money on a nice set of wheels he was hoping to get a good deal on.

Austin (BeastBuster) is a stand up and honest guy that I have dealt with in the past on multiple occasions. I do not believe him to be creating a story here.
While I do not know how the wheels were damaged, I believe Austin when he says he did not have anything to do with them being bent.
I'm sorry he had to dish out so much money on a nice set of wheels he was hoping to get a good deal on.

Thanks a lot bud!

I'm being completely impartial here... You also posted the receipt from the wheel repair, which occured almost two months after you mounted and balanced the wheels. Why did it take so long to get them looked at by a wheel repair shop if you were concerned that they may have been bent. I wouldn't trust Discount Tire to tell me anything after seeing their work on numerous occasions.

First off, I was not concerned that they may have been bent. I didn't trust Discount Tire to tell me anything. I knew without a doubt they were bent because I saw them on the balancing machine. This is information covered on the first page of this thread. Also previously said is that they were confirmed to be bent by three shops. Discount, a local wheel shop, and then Chicago Wheel when they did the repairs. It took me awhile to do the actual repair for a couple of reasons: I never should have had to pay for the repairs, repairs cost money and I didn't have that kind of money to spend before then.

Hawk didn't say that they WERE damaged in shipping, he admitted to it being a possibility. I can say him seing balancing out ok because if they did balance, didn't shake, etc. there would be no reason for him to have any thoughts that they might be bent. I don't send my rims to be checked for bends every time they are mounted or dismounted. Also, there's no way that the spokes were bent in shipping with no damage to the packaging.

You missed the point entirely, if 223Hawk admits it as a possibility, then why did he ignore me instead of trying to discuss it or negotiate? This alone should be enough for some kind of reprimand. Seriously here is the PM I sent to him, his reply (the last he would ever send), and the PM I sent where he started ignoring me.

Re: Wheels
I cannot think of any reason why the people would not tell you that your wheels were bent... But the people over here at Discount Tire told me that there was no way you could not have known these were bent. But you seem to be an honest guy so I believe you were unaware but I find it very hard to believe that the people at Big-O could have missed it if they tried to balance them. I understand that you might not want to just take my word for it so if there is anything you want me to do (Letter from Discount, etc) let me know. I do need to get these fixed soon though, as vibrations are actually very noticeable... And they put the least bent wheel up front. I am gonna try and find some shops that straighten wheels and get back to you on what they quote me.

Thanks,

-Austin

Default Re: Wheels
Austin, Im still in the air about this. I cant believe the wheels are bent. Its not that I dont believe you or need a letter from a tire shop. Iv had a car (87 Trans Am) That the GTA wheels were bent, Yeah that sucked but who I knew a guy back then that could balance tires and take most of that out. I truly think they may have been bent in shipping! I think you need to contact UPS. I just dont know! The day they came off my car, I had drove the car, and NEVER any vibration at all. Not to be a Dick but you waited 2 months to get tires, then tell me they are bent. Im sorry but I dont feel I should pay for the repairs. If something would have came up sooner, I might be a lot more flexible, but this is more than 2 Months AFTER purchase. You got the Firehawk wheels at a VERY good price! If this was me, and I was very concerned about this, I would not wait days in between emails(Messages on ls1tech) and stay on top of this.

Thanks
Joey

Re: Wheels
I realize that this is a tense situation on both sides but don't make judgements or assumptions that I am not concerned. I have not been home a lot in the past few days. I assure you, I am taking this very seriously. I was very excited to get these wheels so I am sure you can imagine the frustration I feel that 3 of the 4 wheels I bought are bent.

Yes it has been a couple months since the purchase but I did not sit around with my thumb up my ass waiting to put tires on. Trust me, I had them mounted as soon as I could afford it. Though the time frame doesn't really matter since this is an issue of me paying for something that I did not receive. While I agree that $650 is a hell of a deal for Firehawk wheels in good condition (why I bought them) I do not believe that is a fair price for wheels that the majority of are structurally damaged. I think that does not qualify as really good condition. If I buy something that requires fixing, it is not in good condition.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not aware these are bent but I am telling you now. And while I can appreciate that you would want to believe that this happened during shipping, it is highly implausible for a couple reasons. First, the damage was described to me to have been caused by (or by a similar force to) hitting a pothole at high speeds. That would require an excessive amount of down force on the wheels vertically but the wheels were stacked in the boxes horizontally. Second, even if somehow the wheels managed to experience said force, this would cause damage to the box. The boxes were perfectly fine which rules out any force large enough to damage the wheels in such a way that it would resemble hitting a pothole at high speeds.

-Austin

I was civil the whole time, even after he started giving me attitude. I had no idea he was just going to ignore me. He only sent two PMs in response to the bent wheels before he ignored me.

Is this the kind of seller you want on the boards? The kind that has no problem taking 650 of your hard-earned dollars and then has the gall to ignore you after a buyer brings up a potential problem with his product? This is utterly disgusting, does LS1Tech condone this type of behavior? It would seem so as there have been no consequences for 223Hawk. He obviously is operating with the attitude that once it is out of his door, it's not his problem. I give him $650 and all I get is two replies?

At this point, due to the time tables, nobody can say for sure from the outside what happened. Even had you had the wheels repaired the same day you mounted the tires and they wouldn't balance, you could have put another set on and bent them prior to the receipts you are showing.

That theory shares the same problem as the one previously posted, it says that I have the intent on trying to scam 223Hawk. If I were intent on scamming 223Hawk it only makes sense that I would have told him very shortly after the wheels arrived but I told him after I had the wheels mounted. Why would I do that? Unless... The wheels were bent.

I know I sound like I'm attacking the OP, but I really just feel like there's no way anyone other than the two involved in the deal know the truth here. Bringing it here, and input from other forum members is not going to solve this.

How often is it that people from the outside know 100% what happened? I would say that is a very rare occurrence. Hell, I am involved and I have no idea what happened. If things were always so black and white, we wouldn't have any need for trials. That is why we have prosecution and defense. Both sides make their cases and then people can weigh the cases and make a decision. We are completely capable of making rational decisions based on logic and facts. If people do not want to make a decision then that is their choice but do not pretend that there has not been enough information presented to make one.

Also, everyone seems to be missing a crucial detail. It does not matter how the wheels were bent. I agree that we will probably never now how it happened but the only thing that matters is if I can prove that it wasn't me. This is really all that matters because if it wasn't me then regardless of how they were bent any and all scenarios would thus make 223Hawk responsible.

At this point I must implore all of you to review everything that has been presented. There is really only one way that all the facts and details come together in a way that makes sense. Whenever somebody has come up with a possible scenario in which I could have done it, there is always a big problem with it.

Sorry for the double post, my post was too long for one post.

So let's look at each person's case (Facts only)

My case:

-223Hawk admitted shipping damage as a possibility but then ignores me
-The receipt from Discount proving I bought my tires when I said
-I sent a PM to 223Hawk about the bent wheels after buying tires from Discount
-The receipt for the wheel repair

Those are the facts, but there are further arguments for my case that are details throughout this thread and in direct response to the circumstantial points brought up against me. This post is already pretty long so I won't include everything, it is up to the reader to go back and read through all the information.

Furthermore, I would just like to make another point. Let's just ignore the receipt from Discount for a second. Let's assume that I could have been driving on the wheels before I took them to Discount. I think we can all agree that bending 3 wheels and bending the spokes on 2 is no simple task. I would have to be one hell of a talented driver to manage to do this under normal driving conditions in such a short time frame. If it were one wheel, I could see it being a possibility but we are talking about three.

Again, this ignores the receipt but I just wanted to further show the high implausibility that I somehow damaged the wheels myself.

Hawk's case:

-Time frame (Which is a double edged sword because this can actually be used as an argument for me in some circumstances)

And that is really all his case consists of. In reality he doesn't even have one because all he does is post excuses and irrelevant stories, etc.

As I have said, there is more than enough information here to make a decision. It is not really a case here of "Did 223Hawk bend them or did BeastBuster?" All that matters is me proving it wasn't me because by the process of elimination, who then would be responsible?

Why am I trying so hard to convince all of you? Well, I lost a lot of money because of 223Hawk, I take all of this very personally. I realize that money is probably never coming back. But I could not just sit here and be quiet about this. I trusted this guy and I got burned. Badly. I refuse to let anybody else get burned like I did. If I can help it, 223Hawk will not be selling another item on this board.

Sucks to hear that you got ripped off..Sounds to me like the seller had an idea that they were out of round but figured maybe the buyer would wait and get past the 60 day period that Paypal gives you.
If I was in your shoes I probably wouldn't have checked the rims for being out of round either..atleast not right away.
I bought some rims of here a few months ago, but we didn't get the car running until about 8 weeks later. The idea that the rims would be bent wasn't even in my head..Guess I am too trusting.

Sucks to hear that you got ripped off..Sounds to me like the seller had an idea that they were out of round but figured maybe the buyer would wait and get past the 60 day period that Paypal gives you.
If I was in your shoes I probably wouldn't have checked the rims for being out of round either..atleast not right away.
I bought some rims of here a few months ago, but we didn't get the car running until about 8 weeks later. The idea that the rims would be bent wasn't even in my head..Guess I am too trusting.

yeah because people normally wait 2 months to examine an item they just bought.

i bought a $2500 chrome accesory drive from s+p. i have complained about some belt/pulley noise from the beginning. i have had the stuff for maybe 5 years, but havent drivenn the car all that much. i now realized i think the brackets that hold the alternator are not machined correctly or something, it looks like its not lined up, maybe consider it "bent"
i could not tell from visual inspection that there is an issue. much like beasts wheels
a long time has gone by so we will see what s+p thinks
i notified them of something wrong when i first got it, they said the bearings in the pullies are cheap and replace them with better ones. they sent me a new pulley. still have the problem. is s+p responsible to fix my problem? i think so

this situation is a little different, but it is similar in the long timeframe it took to get to the realization the parts are defective. similar to finding out the wheels were bent
in the end, i did not recieve what i paid 2500 for,a nice working accesory drive with no issues. beast did not get what he paid for, a set of firehawk wheels "in good condition"
it doesnt matter how it happened. beast didnt get what he paid for, the seller should do what he can to solve the problem. if 223hawk really believed they were damaged in shipping, he should have filed a claim, but i think he knew what really happened.

I love how everyone says, that I knew they were bent or it they use what I said about being bent in Shipping against me! I said it could have happened. I again say, I never knew they were bent, Im not saying it did or did not happen in shipping, that was just a thought of how they could of ended up that way. I did not sell the Firehawk wheels knowing they were bent, and after this time period, I know nothing of what could have happend, Im not going to pay for something that the buyer could have done to them in this time frame. Sorry..

because those are the ONLY 2 out of 3 possibilities that make sense. they were damaged before you put them in the box, or they got damaged while in the box before beast got them. the fact that the boxes were not damaged discredits the second theory.

"unless beast is lying and trying to scam you for something he did to them after he got them."

Sucks to hear that you got ripped off..Sounds to me like the seller had an idea that they were out of round but figured maybe the buyer would wait and get past the 60 day period that Paypal gives you.
If I was in your shoes I probably wouldn't have checked the rims for being out of round either..atleast not right away.
I bought some rims of here a few months ago, but we didn't get the car running until about 8 weeks later. The idea that the rims would be bent wasn't even in my head..Guess I am too trusting.

Thanks, and yeah I am too trusting as well. I have paid for it. Oh and just a heads up (in case you need it sometime in the future) Paypal actually only gives you 45 days to make a dispute.

yeah because people normally wait 2 months to examine an item they just bought.

Yeah and apparently you haven't read through this thread. If you want to be sarcastic then expect it in return. People may not wait two months to examine an item, but it is fairly common that they will not install the part for a few months and that is when problems will become apparent.

i bought a $2500 chrome accesory drive from s+p. i have complained about some belt/pulley noise from the beginning. i have had the stuff for maybe 5 years, but havent drivenn the car all that much. i now realized i think the brackets that hold the alternator are not machined correctly or something, it looks like its not lined up, maybe consider it "bent"
i could not tell from visual inspection that there is an issue. much like beasts wheels
a long time has gone by so we will see what s+p thinks
i notified them of something wrong when i first got it, they said the bearings in the pullies are cheap and replace them with better ones. they sent me a new pulley. still have the problem. is s+p responsible to fix my problem? i think so

this situation is a little different, but it is similar in the long timeframe it took to get to the realization the parts are defective. similar to finding out the wheels were bent
in the end, i did not recieve what i paid 2500 for,a nice working accesory drive with no issues. beast did not get what he paid for, a set of firehawk wheels "in good condition"
it doesnt matter how it happened. beast didnt get what he paid for, the seller should do what he can to solve the problem. if 223hawk really believed they were damaged in shipping, he should have filed a claim, but i think he knew what really happened.

Thank you for your understanding. I hope your situation works out for ya!

I love how everyone says, that I knew they were bent or it they use what I said about being bent in Shipping against me! I said it could have happened. I again say, I never knew they were bent, Im not saying it did or did not happen in shipping, that was just a thought of how they could of ended up that way.

Alright, either you are intentionally being a dumbass or you just blew my mind. Of course the fact that you said they could have been damaged in shipping is going to be used against you. Who else would it be against? Me? That makes sense... You really need to read through everything that has been posted. Either that or you are just ignoring everything that has been said and continue to spout your ignorance. I guess I should spell it out for you.

The reason why the fact you said they could have been bent in shipping is being used against you is because you, as the seller, are responsible for shipping damage. Yet you made no effort to investigate this issue. You said it was a possibility and then ignored me. You graced me with a total of two PMs in regards to the bent wheels before you ignored me. Ignoring me is shady business to begin with, but after only two PMs, it is a lot worse. This would probably be why I and others think you knew something was up.

How they were damaged though is irrelevant. It is not my job to try and figure it out, it was only my job to let you know.

I did not sell the Firehawk wheels knowing they were bent, and after this time period, I know nothing of what could have happend, Im not going to pay for something that the buyer could have done to them in this time frame. Sorry..

I swear if you bring up "this time period" again, I will have an aneurysm. You ignored me. Not to mention the time that has passed since I told you does not matter seeing as I told you in April. The only time frame that matters is that original 42 days. Did you miss the receipt I posted? I suggest you take a look, because it clearly shows that I bought the tires that are still on the car one day before I told you they were bent. You know for a fact that the wheels didn't come with tires, so then it should be obvious to you that the first time I had the wheels on the car was when I bought the tires. Unless you are really going to sit here and tell me I was running them without tires? So then, I ask you, what could I have possibly done to potentially bend them? Face it, this is on you. If you can't see that, you are clearly in denial. Before you post again, I suggest you actually read this thread. I grow tired of repeating myself just to try and get you to read the points you ignore.

Yeah and apparently you haven't read through this thread. If you want to be sarcastic then expect it in return. People may not wait two months to examine an item, but it is fairly common that they will not install the part for a few months and that is when problems will become apparent.
i could care less what you say to me. im not going to read through an entire thread of bickering. if one of the spokes was broken, imo thats noticeable and should have been brought to someones attention asap. also i wouldnt pay a repair shop hundreds of dollars to fix them just to have them tell me they cant be repaired. Maybe he didnt know they were bent, maybe they were bent in shipping, maybe you bent them. the fact of the matter is....nobody knows exactly. you could have bought these brand new and kept them in boxes until you decided to put them on. if you sent a complaint to the company months later i doubt they would refund your money either. its a risk you take. unfortunately it didnt work out.

sounds like you bought the rims "AS IS" its just like buying a used car a gamble if you dont do your home work and check into deals this type of thing will happen you i can produce multipal receipts for tires i get them all the time waiting two months then asking for 1/2 off is crazy good luck to hawk hope he stops bugging you...

From what I can see 223Hawk takes meticulous care of his car. I really doubt that he would have just slammed potholes with 3 tires.
Now, I know for a fact that "delivery" people toss boxes into the trucks when they get loaded.

Imagine how long it would take to "carefully" load a truck.. Now, imagine if other things got stacked on top? I think how these bent, i understand it sucks to get a messed up part..

But, at the sam time I always check everything out asap.. Whether the parts get mounted or not.

Seller... and buyer beware. Used rims.. are used rims.. you now know better next time.

To the seller... maybe inspect your parts better next time..

Everyone needs to suck it up and take it as a life lesson.

because those are the ONLY 2 out of 3 possibilities that make sense. they were damaged before you put them in the box, or they got damaged while in the box before beast got them. the fact that the boxes were not damaged discredits the second theory.

"unless beast is lying and trying to scam you for something he did to them after he got them."

Agreed 100%...even if the UPS/FedEx guy tosses the box a short distance up into the truck, that is not enough to bend the wheels...srsly, what are they are made of, tin foil?? If the box had no visible signs of wear and tear I highly doubt they were bent in shipping...even though there are some whacky UPS/FedEx loaders/workers who don't care, I don't see them playing "keg toss" with a box of wheels and the box not being damaged. Sorry that excuse of damage in shipping is shady.

Sorry but I don't see the OP making up this up. Is it "possible" he f'ed up the wheels in that timeframe...yes...but he seems like a honest guy who got the short end of the stick regardless of time passed, which in reality is not a long time...we aren't talking 6 mo. down the road. He's made a concerned effort to prove he was wronged.

If the seller had some morals, he would refund part of this guy's troubles. Don't mean to attack you seller but something isn't adding up here.

i could care less what you say to me. im not going to read through an entire thread of bickering. if one of the spokes was broken, imo thats noticeable and should have been brought to someones attention asap. also i wouldnt pay a repair shop hundreds of dollars to fix them just to have them tell me they cant be repaired. Maybe he didnt know they were bent, maybe they were bent in shipping, maybe you bent them. the fact of the matter is....nobody knows exactly. you could have bought these brand new and kept them in boxes until you decided to put them on. if you sent a complaint to the company months later i doubt they would refund your money either. its a risk you take. unfortunately it didnt work out.

By choosing not to read you are being willfully ignorant and I don't support such behavior especially when literally everything you said has been covered elsewhere in the thread.

sounds like you bought the rims "AS IS" its just like buying a used car a gamble if you dont do your home work and check into deals this type of thing will happen you i can produce multipal receipts for tires i get them all the time waiting two months then asking for 1/2 off is crazy good luck to hawk hope he stops bugging you...

Actually, it sounds like I paid for wheels in "great shape" (check the original ad, it's posted for a reason) and I received junk.

Also, are you seriously telling me that if I would have done some 'homework' that I could have been spared of this bullshit? I couldn't tell these things were bent when they were right in front of me and you are suggesting that there is some kind of research I could have possibly done to let me know these were gonna show up at my house bent? It seems to me you didn't do any 'homework' before posting this.

Get a clue, half my money back doesn't even cover the cost of the repairs.
$325<$390

Agreed 100%...even if the UPS/FedEx guy tosses the box a short distance up into the truck, that is not enough to bend the wheels...srsly, what are they are made of, tin foil?? If the box had no visible signs of wear and tear I highly doubt they were bent in shipping...even though there are some whacky UPS/FedEx loaders/workers who don't care, I don't see them playing "keg toss" with a box of wheels and the box not being damaged. Sorry that excuse of damage in shipping is shady.

Sorry but I don't see the OP making up this up. Is it "possible" he f'ed up the wheels in that timeframe...yes...but he seems like a honest guy who got the short end of the stick regardless of time passed, which in reality is not a long time...we aren't talking 6 mo. down the road. He's made a concerned effort to prove he was wronged.

If the seller had some morals, he would refund part of this guy's troubles. Don't mean to attack you seller but something isn't adding up here.

Thank you. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the fact that it seems as though you took the time to read through information presented here!

I think 223Hawk's actions show that morals are in short supply for him. He will never make this right.

Bottom line = You waited WAY TOO LONG to realize that the wheels had problems.

I would not help you out either. 42 days is 41 days too much. There is absolutely NO WAY I'd trust a buyer that he had nothing to do with my wheels being bent if he waited more then a month.

This is absolutely your fault for not taking the rims down to a tire place and asking them to check them out the day you got them.

There's so many ways that you could be scamming him in the timeframe here that he is absolutely doing the right thing.

You seem honest, but as far as he knows all you swapped them around with damaged wheels to get a refund.

You really need to inspect things the day you get them. If you can't visually inspect them, take them to someone who can.



My feeling is the seller has no responsibility outside of the buyer complaining within 3-5 business days. 42 days? yeah right.

Any particular reason you brought up this two month old thread? It would be one thing to do so with something relevant or new to say... though you have just repeated things brought up by others. Your logic is flawed, for reasons that I have covered many times. I'm not here to repeat myself a thousand times for people who aren't willing to go through the thread. There is a lot of information, and no, you don't have to read it. You also don't have to post in the thread.

By the way, I have never ever heard of a return policy window only being 3-5 business days. If that is really all the time you believe you as a seller are responsible for, I would never do business with you and I doubt others would either. If somebody complained to me about something I sold them, I would at the very least be willing to hear them out and allow them to present their case, evidence, or whatever to prove their point. It wouldn't matter to me how long it had been if they can make their point. I just don't agree with 223Hawk taking all that money from me and then not even giving me a chance to prove it and ignore me. That just doesn't seem honest to me.

Sure, i like to debate :)

Honestly, you are not dealing with a professional business here, and even a professional business would not call a statement from a tire place 42 days after purchase proof.

That's the problem here. My dad owns 5 stores in the north east, if someone claims something about a product 42 days later, it's too late!

Like I said, if you had taken it right to get the tires on and could have shown me as a seller that they were bent within 3-5 business days - then I would have been more understanding.

However, no matter how honest your friends say you are. If I was in his shoes and I KNEW for a fact that they weren't bent on my car, I simply wouldn't believe that you had nothing to do with bending the wheels, when you came back to me more then a month later...

The thing that gets me is, I have seen some shady tire shops before sell junk that they dont need to.
Second. The repair order says nothing about bent rims just repair and refinish.
repair what exactly...a lip, a chip in the chrome, what...

Sure, i like to debate :)

Honestly, you are not dealing with a professional business here, and even a professional business would not call a statement from a tire place 42 days after purchase proof.

That's the problem here. My dad owns 5 stores in the north east, if someone claims something about a product 42 days later, it's too late!

Like I said, if you had taken it right to get the tires on and could have shown me as a seller that they were bent within 3-5 business days - then I would have been more understanding.

However, no matter how honest your friends say you are. If I was in his shoes and I KNEW for a fact that they weren't bent on my car, I simply wouldn't believe that you had nothing to do with bending the wheels, when you came back to me more then a month later...

The receipt from Discount is far from proof that I didn't bend the wheels. What is does prove, however, is that I told 223Hawk they were bent the day I bought tires. Coincidence? I think not. The whole point is that if I was out to scam him, why would I have waited to tell him? Why would I have waited until the day I bought tires? Unless they were actually bent and I was letting him know as soon as I found out.

I still strongly disagree with your 3-5 day policy. It's just not good for customer satisfaction. Hell, I worked for Advance Auto for awhile and we use to take things back much later than that with almost no hassle.

Though I realize this is not a corporation we are dealing with here, this is a human being. Now typically this would mean that you would expect him to be a bit more understanding. Life happens. If I physically could have had tires put on 3-5 business days after I got them, I would have. I couldn't afford tires immediately after giving this guy almost all my money. He knew that too, by the way. I asked him if he had any tires he could throw into the deal because I said if not, it would be awhile before I could buy tires for them. So as I said, I wish I would have been able to buy tires sooner. Actually, I wish I hadn't given this guy money for junk.

The thing that gets me is, I have seen some shady tire shops before sell junk that they dont need to.
Second. The repair order says nothing about bent rims just repair and refinish.
repair what exactly...a lip, a chip in the chrome, what...

What does a shady tire shop have to do with anything? The only thing the tire shop sold me is tires... They had nothing to do with repairs, they just informed me they were bent. Along with two other shops I had check them out.

A wheel repair shop repairs wheels. That includes bent wheels, I don't think they really thought they had to be specific for a receipt. But hell, if you want to split hairs go have a look at their site.

http://www.rimrepaircenter.com/9.html

Rim straightening is $130. Three wheels are on the receipt. 130x3= 390. The amount on the receipt.

This is the last time I am repeating myself. I'm pretty sure I could have responded to both of you just by quoting myself from somewhere in this thread. As far as I'm concerned, this thread has served its purpose. It should keep anybody from doing business with this guy if they want their sellers to act with integrity. At the very least, I have shown 223Hawk does not. Even if you are up in the air about whether he should have or shouldn't have accepted responsibility, I think everyone can agree that a seller shouldn't just ignore you when you have a potential problem.