Gen 5 Camaro External Bolt-On Tech - 4th Gen vs. 5th Gen profile comparo. *pic*

Hey guys and girls, I really hate to throw fuel on this fire more then it's already been done, but I feel like I need to post this.

I think this sums up people complaints about the girth of the 5th Gen pretty well.

This is next to a car that was considered porky back in it's heyday when it first came out.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=17032&pictureid=56392

Your car would almost fit in it.

It's a bigger car, but still performers. One of the biggest complaints about the 4th gen was low drivers position and ease of ingress/exgress. Those two problems were solved, poor visability is still an issue though.

I could see the in/out issue, but then again I am 22 and drove a C4 corvette that required something more akin to "climbing into" it lol

Who cares? Both look good IMO, they're totally different cars so I don't expect them to be close to each other at all.

I love my TA and my Camaro, both are great to drive.

The 5th gens do perform well. They are big and heavy. I want them to build a bare bones race model like the new Boss Mustang. GM being GM they won't. The new cars look ok for being 4x8 pieces of plywood styling.:devil: Oh I know the 4th gens look like Geo Storms.

gezzz ididnt realize they were that wide! Even so though i still like both of them still, and i agree i do wish they would build a helle'va race camaro that would be sweet

Mind you, they also manage to corner better than the 4th gen from what I recall. The 5th gen V6 was either spot on or better than the last 4th gen SS.

Granted all that weight on a road course is far from friendly on the brakes.

Here are the actual specs:

'98-'02 Camaro:
Length: 193.2"
Width: 74.1"
Height: 51.3"

2010+ Camaro:
Length: 190.4"
Width: 75.5"
Height: 54.2"


Width is very similar, and the 5th gen is noticeably taller, but the 4th gen is actually longer. I wouldn't call the 5th gen a "bigger" car overall since it's a few inches shorter.

The only problem I see with the size of a 5th gen is weight (L/W/H are fine, IMO). The weight situation can be explained by increased safety standards, more steel body panels, eletronics, insulation, IRS, etc.

i like my 4th gen for what it is.



i like 5th gens for being more DD friendly.


they both are good looking cars.

The front is very square, don't get me wrong it is a very nice car but around here- everyone and their mom has one.

easy fix. Stop calling the z-body charger/mustang a camaro. Did pontiac keep calling their car a grandam when they changed body styles. No, they named it the G6 and the grand prix became the G8. Were they basically drop in replacements for those lines, sure... But they're not the same car.

Might as well make the same thing out of composite material and call it a corvette. Why build up a new name when you can steal an already recognized one.

we have got a few new ones around post and i dont mind them.. but 20" wheels on an F body is damn near retarded IMO.. i just want to get the damn LS3 and 6spd outta one of em...they can keep the rest of it for all i care..

just to add more fuel to the fire:
http://i44.tinypic.com/zv1w74.jpg
keep in mind, mines lowered.

Here are the actual specs:

'98-'02 Camaro:
Length: 193.2"
Width: 74.1"
Height: 51.3"

2010+ Camaro:
Length: 190.4"
Width: 75.5"
Height: 54.2"


Width is very similar, and the 5th gen is noticeably taller, but the 4th gen is actually longer. I wouldn't call the 5th gen a "bigger" car overall since it's a few inches shorter.

It is not that the new Camaro isn't close to the same overall dimensions as the 4th Gen cars, its how the dimensions differ. The overall height of the car may only be 3in or so taller, but the front of the 5th Gen is massive in comparion to the 4th Gen. If you measure every body line you would see a great deal of difference between the two cars, but then again it is a different Camaro than the 4th Gen and that is just something people have to accept.

Nice comparison shots. Both are good looking cars. The 4th gens still look current too IMO

It's a bigger car, but still performers. One of the biggest complaints about the 4th gen was low drivers position and ease of ingress/exgress. Those two problems were solved, poor visability is still an issue though.


i couldnt buy a 5th for the visability... i feel closterphobic in it

Its a backward step in design what GM did to these 5th gens. Just look the at stealthy, refined look that 4th gen Camaro has and compare to the fat looking, badly proportioned, brick the 5th gen Camaro is. It almost feels like the 4th gen is the new, improved model!

I really think these new Camaros are a sore sight from a design point of view.

Wow...there's alot of hate for the 5th gens. I've owned a 3rd gen, two 4th gens, and now a 5th gen. To me, the 5th gen doesn't feel like a giant. It certainly turns more heads than any of the others ever did and is far more refined. I've enjoyed all of my Camaros, but this new one is certainly my favorite so far and I wouldn't go back to a 4th gen. Love it or hate it, sales don't lie.

yup, sales are what determines a cars success and a 5th gen is doing fine.

Wow...there's alot of hate for the 5th gens. I've owned a 3rd gen, two 4th gens, and now a 5th gen. To me, the 5th gen doesn't feel like a giant. It certainly turns more heads than any of the others ever did and is far more refined. I've enjoyed all of my Camaros, but this new one is certainly my favorite so far and I wouldn't go back to a 4th gen. Love it or hate it, sales don't lie.

Sales don't lie but, look how many are on used car lots already. A 4th gen
F-body on the same lot will sell alot faster, not just because of the price either. My opinion is the 5th gen is not really a Camaro, they just used the name for recognition, and not worth the price either. The dashboard looks like a video game screen, they have alot of road noise, as big as they are the back seat is still pretty much useless, you still can't see over the hood and the doors are still too long. IMHO they are overated and need a major update already.

The 4th gen has no styling what so ever, unless you get the WS.6 with it's boy racer looks and rediculous wing. I loved the WS.6 when it first came out but it really does nothing for me. To say a 5th gen isn't a Camaro is a joke. The 5th gen is the best Camaro yet. It's a car you can drive and not feel like you were punished. Looks, performance, ride, comfort and value are all in the 5th gens favor.

The 4th gen has no styling what so ever, unless you get the WS.6 with it's boy racer looks and rediculous wing. I loved the WS.6 when it first came out but it really does nothing for me. To say a 5th gen isn't a Camaro is a joke. The 5th gen is the best Camaro yet. It's a car you can drive and not feel like you were punished. Looks, performance, ride, comfort and value are all in the 5th gens favor.

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/lexielex/K45r6V3mXKd6TDUMBUqokvuVxKeA59AKYVxTfd0R4lGru78zFn PlWcCpV4io/Cool_story_bro.jpeg

I will stick to my 3rd gens. Thanks

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/lexielex/K45r6V3mXKd6TDUMBUqokvuVxKeA59AKYVxTfd0R4lGru78zFn PlWcCpV4io/Cool_story_bro.jpeg
http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/mytphotos//fullSize/2/a/2a0ca-Good_Good_Let_the_Butt_hurt_flow_through.jpg

I will stick to my 3rd gens. Thanks

Smartass! LOL!:chug:

It's a car you can drive and not feel like you were punished. Looks, performance, ride, comfort and value are all in the 5th gens favor.

Why does it seem like I'm the only one that doesnt think 3rd and 4th gen f bodies ride bad? I've been cross country twice and went on the 2009 Power Tour in '89 20th Anniversary T/A's with no complaints.

The 5th gen does make a nice driver though, if they were a few hundred pounds lighter and had a solid axle I'd consider one. Too bad we'll never have another Trans Am

Why does it seem like I'm the only one that doesnt think 3rd and 4th gen f bodies ride bad?

You're not alone, I agree with you. 3rd and 4th gens do a very good job of being what they are supposed to be. They are just not the right car for everyone.

The problem is that too many people expected something from a Camaro which a Camaro was not originally intended to provide (semi-luxury standards), so now we have a Camaro that is fluffed up with provisions and designs for the mainstream public. Whether or not this is good or bad all depends on which side of the fence you're standing.

To say a 5th gen isn't a Camaro is a joke.

I agree. But to say this....

The 4th gen has no styling what so ever

...is also a joke. It's hard to confuse a 4th gen for anything else on the road, which would be an impossible accomplishment for a car with "no styling".

The 5th gen is the best Camaro yet. It's a car you can drive and not feel like you were punished. Looks, performance, ride, comfort and value are all in the 5th gens favor.

This is all your opinion, and much of it is subject to debate. You can't directly compare "value" between a 9+ year old used car and a brand new one (this would be very unfair to the 5th gen, with such a higher price due to it's youth), so no direct comparison can be drawn in that regard between the 4th and 5th gen. Now, you could compare them within their respective categories in their respective eras, in which case the 4th gen is tough to beat; there wasn't a single new car that came marginally close to LS1 performance for similar money at the time. But these days, the 5th gen has to contend with the 5.0 Mustang, which is a dead-heat competitor performance wise, for the same general money. Some could argue that '11+ Mustang GT is a better value than the 5th gen Camaro SS, but that's a MUCH more difficult arguement for the Ford to win when comparing '98-'02 SS vs GT.

Appearence is subjective, so no point in even debating that.

EDIT:

Just wanted to ad, I'm no 5th gen hater. I like all generations of Camaro for various reasons. I have, would and will consider owning a 5th gen, but I still love the 4th gens as well and can see the positives of both.

...is also a joke. It's hard to confuse a 4th gen for anything else on the road, which would be an impossible accomplishment for a car with "no styling".


LOL have you not seen a Pontiac Sunfire. Take the spoiler of the T/A and you would have the same rear as a Sunfire. Also The chrysler Sebring had the catfish front end like the camaro.

i couldnt buy a 5th for the visability... i feel closterphobic in it

I agree

well, im not a hug efan of the seemingly hugeness of them, but they can be damn fast and id get a blacked out stripper model and kick the snot out of it at the track!!!! Mines a pig to though as a vert auto with almost every option u could get on a z in 02, but it will do 11s so fuck it huh!

Sales don't lie but, look how many are on used car lots already. A 4th gen
F-body on the same lot will sell alot faster, not just because of the price either. My opinion is the 5th gen is not really a Camaro, they just used the name for recognition, and not worth the price either. The dashboard looks like a video game screen, they have alot of road noise, as big as they are the back seat is still pretty much useless, you still can't see over the hood and the doors are still too long. IMHO they are overated and need a major update already.

Have you ever even ridden in one? A lot of road noise? My god the car rides like a Cadillac. If anything it is almost too refined.

At over 130 mph the car is as smooth as glass. Try 130 mph in a 4th gen and tell me what it sounds like in the cabin LOL (I had one...the windows suck in and it sounds like your in a space shuttle lol.)

I love both cars. I would love to own both...but its not in the cards right now. At times I miss the raw muscle car feeling of my 98. They are a lot different from one another...but are both excellent. I dont mind some of the negatives of the 4th gen...but I can plainly see why the 5th gen is doing so well in comparison to the 4th gen. It is a lot easier to live with on a daily basis for most people. Aside from the visibility problem which you get used to...the car has a very luxury type feel to it. I like that about it...and I also dont like it sometimes. The more I mod the more it is starting to feel like a 4th gen though. Best of both worlds.

As far as appearance...its not even in the same universe. The amount of looks and compliments I get in this car are above and beyond ANY other car I have ever owned by ten fold. That is not why I bought the car....but when I had my 98 I might have gotten 5 or 6 compliments in 3 years. I have gotten that in ONE DAY in my 5th gen. It is almost ridiculous at times.

And for those who are still saying this car doesnt perform...that is asinine.

^^^Well, u gotta do more than a nice set of wheels and a billet grill man. my cammed out sexiefied beast has gotten compliments from 5th gen owners on looks and sound, that and i baby the paint although i beat the snot out of it daily! I get about 2 compliments a week, and more normally in the spring and summer! I will own a 5th gen one day, but i fall in love with the rawness and sex appeal of my car atleast once a week! I wont own a 5th gen if it ment i had to give up my 4th gen monster that rattles over every fucking bump and leaks like a waterfall when it rains!!!!

:corn:

Interesting perspectives in this thread.

I need to go test drive a new 5th gen V8 six speed.

^^^Well, u gotta do more than a nice set of wheels and a billet grill man. my cammed out sexiefied beast has gotten compliments from 5th gen owners on looks and sound, that and i baby the paint although i beat the snot out of it daily! I get about 2 compliments a week, and more normally in the spring and summer! I will own a 5th gen one day, but i fall in love with the rawness and sex appeal of my car atleast once a week! I wont own a 5th gen if it ment i had to give up my 4th gen monster that rattles over every fucking bump and leaks like a waterfall when it rains!!!!

LOL...you are almost a psychic or something. (do I know you?) My 98 was a black z28 6 speed. It had chrome ZR-1 style rims and a billet grill. It was tinted out and it was also H/C. Had custom true dual exhaust dumped at the rear axle with dynomax bullet mufflers. It was also a stripper with some minor weight reduction and it came in at 3297 with a 1/3 tank of gas. It sounded amazing. Definitely a bit better than my current car because it isnt cammed yet. When it is cammed it will be close. I went with a full muffler this time to quiet it down just a bit...but still orx.

IMO not really much else I could do to it in the looks department. Maybe an SS hood or something. I dont like to go too far from factory where looks are concerned...it can start to look odd. I thought the car looked great...but sadly in most peoples eyes the 4th gen camaro was severely lacking in the looks department especially when stock.

I am having a hard time doing much to my current car because it looked so good to start with. I have some new wheels and I have tinted and lowered it among some other small things. Other than that I probably wont do a whole lot more.

Like I said I do miss some of the things about my 4th gen. I just love camaros all together I suppose. Wish I could own them all...I even miss my old 92 sometimes lol. Still want to do an lsx and 6 speed swap into a 92 z28 someday.

Have you ever even ridden in one? A lot of road noise? My god the car rides like a Cadillac. If anything it is almost too refined.

At over 130 mph the car is as smooth as glass. Try 130 mph in a 4th gen and tell me what it sounds like in the cabin LOL (I had one...the windows suck in and it sounds like your in a space shuttle lol.)

I love both cars. I would love to own both...but its not in the cards right now. At times I miss the raw muscle car feeling of my 98. They are a lot different from one another...but are both excellent. I dont mind some of the negatives of the 4th gen...but I can plainly see why the 5th gen is doing so well in comparison to the 4th gen. It is a lot easier to live with on a daily basis for most people. Aside from the visibility problem which you get used to...the car has a very luxury type feel to it. I like that about it...and I also dont like it sometimes. The more I mod the more it is starting to feel like a 4th gen though. Best of both worlds.

As far as appearance...its not even in the same universe. The amount of looks and compliments I get in this car are above and beyond ANY other car I have ever owned by ten fold. That is not why I bought the car....but when I had my 98 I might have gotten 5 or 6 compliments in 3 years. I have gotten that in ONE DAY in my 5th gen. It is almost ridiculous at times.

And for those who are still saying this car doesnt perform...that is asinine.

I get compliments almost everyday I drive my car... dont get me wrong I do like the 5th gen camaro but its just not my style. It feels like a boat and its hard to see out of but it is fun to cruise in on a saturday afternoon. 4th gen's obviously dont ride or handle no where near as good as the 5th gen but it feels more like a racecar than the 5th gen. As for performance they are strong but 9 times out of 10 they cant keep up with my camaro when they full bolt ons

You're not alone, I agree with you. 3rd and 4th gens do a very good job of being what they are supposed to be. They are just not the right car for everyone.

The problem is that too many people expected something from a Camaro which a Camaro was not originally intended to provide (semi-luxury standards), so now we have a Camaro that is fluffed up with provisions and designs for the mainstream public. Whether or not this is good or bad all depends on which side of the fence you're standing.



I agree. But to say this....



...is also a joke. It's hard to confuse a 4th gen for anything else on the road, which would be an impossible accomplishment for a car with "no styling".



This is all your opinion, and much of it is subject to debate. You can't directly compare "value" between a 9+ year old used car and a brand new one (this would be very unfair to the 5th gen, with such a higher price due to it's youth), so no direct comparison can be drawn in that regard between the 4th and 5th gen. Now, you could compare them within their respective categories in their respective eras, in which case the 4th gen is tough to beat; there wasn't a single new car that came marginally close to LS1 performance for similar money at the time. But these days, the 5th gen has to contend with the 5.0 Mustang, which is a dead-heat competitor performance wise, for the same general money. Some could argue that '11+ Mustang GT is a better value than the 5th gen Camaro SS, but that's a MUCH more difficult arguement for the Ford to win when comparing '98-'02 SS vs GT.

Appearence is subjective, so no point in even debating that.

EDIT:

Just wanted to ad, I'm no 5th gen hater. I like all generations of Camaro for various reasons. I have, would and will consider owning a 5th gen, but I still love the 4th gens as well and can see the positives of both.

Some of my comments were made to sound as ridiculous as some of the 4th gen fanboi's here. I have owned 2 3rd and 2 4th gens before my 5th gen and hands down it is my favorite. The 3rd gen IMO had more styling, good or bad. I personally think a 91-92 GTA or T/A looks awesome and has classic styling. As far as 4th gens go, other than a WS.6 (which had it's day, but again IMO, has lost it's wow factor and looks dated) is in desperate need of wheels and hood to look good. The 5th gen looks awesome and is the meanest car on the streets after a drop and a couple small exterior mods (the gold bowtie's are hideous). That being said when I compare the performance, handling, ride comfort and ergonomics the 5th gen is head and shoulders above the 3rd and 4th gen. As it should be, it's a brand new car with 8 years more technology. Obviously not everyone shares my opinion but that's the spice of life.

I just got wheels and tint on my 2002 Z28 and I get compliments left and right on my car. I've test driven the new Camaro SS and I have to say, I'd rather have a nice used, low-mileage, unmolested 2002 SS with a 6-speed. What really gets to me is that the 5th gen Camaro has a horrendous looking interior that I can't seem to get over.

hahaha this thread is awesome. As long as everyones happy right, i know my roomate with his lil rsx would never be happy in my "boat", but you couldnt make me trade cars with him for anything as well. As long as people are buying what they want thats about all that matters, i personaly think the retro look is some bullshit fad though. Whatever people are into ;) i love my bird!

In all seriousness, it's kind of a pointless debate anyway. You'll never get everyone to agree on what looks best, and in my opinion several cars can look equally good in different ways. I don't see the 5th gen as a better looking car than the 4th, but I also don't see it as worse looking. It's just different; and both look tough in their own way. Both also offer a different set of strengths and weaknesses, depending on your personal goals and preferences. The debate factors can change drastically depending on the purpose of the car (race, weekend toy, daily driver, etc).

5th gens just look cheap to me... they look like a cheap matchbox car. And even though the technical H/W/L measurements aren't too much bigger than a 4th gen, they look like cross over SUV's compared to 4th gens.

4th gen has no styling? LOL 4th gens are one of the sleekest, stealthiest looking cars around. Like someone said earlier in that comparison picture, the 4th gen still looks current. I don't think it will ever go out of style.

Out of the Mustang, Challenger, & Camaro, the Camaro definitely is the worst looking IMO. I think Challenger nailed the modern-retro throwback in the looks department.

Oh and as for a DD goes, give me a newer GTO.

sorry but in my opinion no other car on earth is as pretty as 4th gen F-bodies..
Im not saying that because I own one , I own one because I truly believe it..
I think the 5th gens look like fat chicks compared to 4th gens.. I would own an F-body over a vette as in looks , but id never get a 5th gen over a vette.. they dont compare ..
they are pretty cars , I just cant compare anything with 4th gens , sorry ..

It's a name grab. Plain and simple. If GM wasn't in such financial trouble they may have risked actually naming it something new but they are.

The look and ride of a camaro isn't supposed to be for everyone. You're not _supposed_ to not feel like you're going 130mph when you are. And I'm sorry. But I dont care what the 1st gen camaro looked like. For 30 years it had a hatch. A glorious hatch that removed nearly any hope of trunk space over the solid rear axle. The camaro is a car for people who dont need a damn trunk for anything that wouldn't fit as carry-on in a plane. This zeta body camaro is as close to a camaro as a corvette is. Also. F this stupid bow-tie crap on the hood. Camaro emblem it is _NOT_.
:)

_Huh?_ ^

I like 5th gens, wish they were lighter and a little smaller.... They perform better then any 4th Gen that was made.... Are you people really gonna say you bought your 4th gens for looks...... or performance? I like 4th gens, but to say they are the best looking care... Looks are opinions anyways.

sorry but in my opinion no other car on earth is as pretty as 4th gen F-bodies..
Im not saying that because I own one , I own one because I truly believe it..
I think the 5th gens look like fat chicks compared to 4th gens.. I would own an F-body over a vette as in looks , but id never get a 5th gen over a vette.. they dont compare ..
they are pretty cars , I just cant compare anything with 4th gens , sorry ..

I like how you think, but you are a fanboy...not according to me though!:chug:

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/lexielex/K45r6V3mXKd6TDUMBUqokvuVxKeA59AKYVxTfd0R4lGru78zFn PlWcCpV4io/Cool_story_bro.jpeg

:rotflmao::violin:...........

The look and ride of a camaro isn't supposed to be for everyone. You're not _supposed_ to not feel like you're going 130mph when you are


so true , otherwise everyones mother would be driving one am I right ?
I dont care if my car isnt practical or has an uncomfortable car , thats not the reason I bought it.. It turns heads , and most importantly makes me feel good , unlike other people , It makes me care about my car , wash it , detail it , and feel sad even if there was a little scratch on it.

and Chaman , your car is one of those F-bodies which reminds me how beautiful 4th gens are ..

yes they arent perfect , dont have the best engineering , or highest quality , but they are damn fast , and anyone who says they dont have style , should be shot :D
13 years past , they are noticed just as much as 2011 cars , and at most times even more.. all cars look good when they're out new , Its about keeping that cool after years and years.. sorry if i upset anyone guys :D

Are you people really gonna say you bought your 4th gens for looks...... or performance?

Both. I would not buy a car that didn't look good to me, no matter how well it performed. (and I bought two 4th gens brand new, so I clearly like them enough to pay MSRP level money)

On that note, I don't have a V6 4th gen and I wouldn't go shopping for a V6 5th gen either. Not because the cars don't look good enough without the performance, but because I see no reason to settle for less stock performance when more is readily available. Having said that, I do like the 4th gens enough that I would own a V6 version if I needed a car and the deal was good enough, and the same would probably be true for a 5th gen; but I would never purposely seek out a V6 car, in either generation.

^ true , the only reason I have a V6 is because Its all I could find back in the day.. but with the way it looks , most people think its fast anyway :D

Haha !!!! You guys are funny. :engarde:



.

Different cars for different people.

One aspect I love about the LS1 Camaros is the raw, unrefined feel of them. These are muscle cars, and they should feel like it, IMO. I don't need big fluffy seats and BMW-esque suspension components to soften the ride; I'm not a girly man :wrist: I don't need new gadgets and settings just to add to my driving experience, a'la much of the new 5th gen features. OnStar is one of them; GM NEEDS to give the consumer the option to opt out of OnStar. I don't need, nor want, eighty different airbags and sensors all over the place in my vehicle - and it seems the gov't keeps adding to the requirements each year. Granted, the 4th gens have some technology I could do without, but nowhere near that of the extensively computerized 5th gen Camaro.

And coming from me, I'm not a "mainstream" guy, by any means. I can't stand when people buy things just because they're popular at the moment - notice my avatar to the left, with regards to "The North Face."

Having driven both cars, the 5th Gen is simply way too "popularized" for me at this moment in time. Like a previous poster said, it's as if everyone and their sister has a new V6 5th gen, and I'm already a little tired of seeing them on the road, unless it's a real clean SS with some unique aspects. And is it just me or do about 50% of all 5th gens have racing stripes? Regardless, the 5th gens are not for me - at least for the next few years. I'm unsure as to whether I would have felt the same way about the 4th gens in their heyday, because I only caught the tail end of it.

This is not to say I don't like the 5th gen Camaro - because I do, and I'm happy to see the continuation of large displacement RWD cars, but I think they're trying too hard to make these so called "muscle cars" perform like Ferrari's on a budget, which was never the original philosophy of the older days.

As for the styling comparison of the 4th and 5th gens, that's completely subjective. I find that cars grow on my over time, but it's also possible to get disgusted by seeing them so often - like the '05-'10 Mustang, IMO. Also, I should mention that I like the styling of the Challenger a bit better, folks. :D

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/07/2011_dodge_challenger_refresh.jpg

http://image.motortrend.com/f/29532185+w750/1011-2011-dodge-challenger-392-front-three-quarter.jpg

I don't need new gadgets and settings just to add to my driving experience, a'la much of the new 5th gen features. OnStar is one of them; GM NEEDS to give the consumer the option to opt out of OnStar. I don't need, nor want, eighty different airbags and sensors all over the place in my vehicle - and it seems the gov't keeps adding to the requirements each year. Granted, the 4th gens have some technology I could do without, but nowhere near that of the extensively computerized 5th gen Camaro.

And coming from me, I'm not a "mainstream" guy, by any means. I can't stand when people buy things just because they're popular at the moment - notice my avatar to the left, with regards to "The North Face."

Having driven both cars, the 5th Gen is simply way too "popularized" for me at this moment in time. Like a previous poster said, it's as if everyone and their sister has a new V6 5th gen, and I'm already a little tired of seeing them on the road, unless it's a real clean SS with some unique aspects. And is it just me or do about 50% of all 5th gens have racing stripes? Regardless, the 5th gens are not for me - at least for the next few years.

This is not to say I don't like the 5th gen Camaro - because I do, and I'm happy to see the continuation of large displacement RWD cars, but I think they're trying too hard to make these so called "muscle cars" perform like Ferrari's on a budget, which was never the original philosophy of the older days.

My feelings exactly. :nod:

One aspect I love about the LS1 Camaros is the raw, unrefined feel of them. These are muscle cars, and they should feel like it, IMO. I don't need big fluffy seats and BMW-esque suspension components to soften the ride; I'm not a girly man :wrist:

While I agree completely with this, I have to admit that 4th gen F-bodies have luxury-like ride quality compared to my Nova. Multi-leaf springs with traction bars and drum brakes on an old X-body chassis will put serious hair on your chest. It's like driving a forklift with an SBC.... and I love it. :D

I'm unsure as to whether I would have felt the same way about the 4th gens in their heyday, because I only caught the tail end of it.

I have some interesting observations about this, coming from a like-minded person who was in the thick of LS1 4th gens since they were first introduced. I found myself in a situation where I've never been before or since; where my automotive interest was inline with some trendy-modern types who only cared for the then-new LS1 4th gens because of the LS1 (and because they were new). Those people have since moved on, but I'm still here with my 4th gens, as usual. :judge:

At the time, I liked the 4th gens because they were the only new cars that offered everything I wanted and very little that I didn't. And today they're about as modern as you can get while still feeling old in many ways (this is a HUGE plus to me, but not to most others). Incredible stock performance (especially for it's era, but still excellent by today's standards) in a car with very little complications, gagets or fluff....that's right up my alley.

The 4th gen has no styling what so ever, unless you get the WS.6 with it's boy racer looks and rediculous wing. I loved the WS.6 when it first came out but it really does nothing for me. To say a 5th gen isn't a Camaro is a joke. The 5th gen is the best Camaro yet. It's a car you can drive and not feel like you were punished. Looks, performance, ride, comfort and value are all in the 5th gens favor.


5th Gens are a dime a dozen, although I won't say as bad as a Mustang.
WS6 birds are a rare breed!!!!!! That's nice that you don't feel "punished", but that's a little harsh.
Get a damn BMW for plush heated vagina ticklers.:engarde:

Put it like this, you buy these cars primarily for a performance/sporty ride aspect. I have test drove the new Camaro and it felt like I was driving a glorified V6. Yeah you want modest comfort, but you don't want to feel like you are driving an underpowered(in relation to 4000lbs), disconnected poser of a boat either.

Now when the new ZL1 Camaro comes out, that's a whole other story. You should have saved your money. And don't you ever rag on the WS6 :sack: ever again...jk, I am a little biased.

Let's not forget what the movie Transformers did for a lot of the 5th gens in terms of sales.
I am glad the Camaro made a return nontheless, but it could have been a lot better than it is right now.
I hope GM gets it right on the next try.

Oh yeah and WS6= Beast, never forget that, There is a reason it made such an impression on you.

It's funny, for the same exact reasons a lot of you are bashing on the 5th gen....are the same reasons it's selling as well as it is. Exactly how many 5th gens do you think GM would sell if they didn't have a more refined suspension, more electronics and the creature comforts? You have to realize there are a lot more buyers that want those options, than ones who don't. I have owned a lot of cars over the years and I mean a lot, but my 5th gen is by far my favorite.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/377smallblock/Camaro%20SS/NewWheels6.jpg

Different cars for different people.

One aspect I love about the LS1 Camaros is the raw, unrefined feel of them. These are muscle cars, and they should feel like it, IMO. I don't need big fluffy seats and BMW-esque suspension components to soften the ride; I'm not a girly man :wrist: I don't need new gadgets and settings just to add to my driving experience, a'la much of the new 5th gen features. OnStar is one of them; GM NEEDS to give the consumer the option to opt out of OnStar. I don't need, nor want, eighty different airbags and sensors all over the place in my vehicle - and it seems the gov't keeps adding to the requirements each year. Granted, the 4th gens have some technology I could do without, but nowhere near that of the extensively computerized 5th gen Camaro.

And coming from me, I'm not a "mainstream" guy, by any means. I can't stand when people buy things just because they're popular at the moment - notice my avatar to the left, with regards to "The North Face."


^ said it perfectly ..

and btw yes they might be selling well , only because they are so popular , they have been twisted out of their original meaning.. a Camaro isnt supposed to be for everyone .. soooo the 4th gen had bad sales and they were discontinued , does that make them a bad car ? they still turn heads , and perform like beasts.. sales are only a part of it if you ask me ..

Honestly the body styling isn't bad overall... if only they made it much less tall and much sleeker.. streamlined some of the body lines a bit more. It's just too bulky looking.

TRANSFORMERS the movie... we thank you. Now the camaro can actually compete with the mustang sales wise.

Oh mighty BUMBLEBEE... we thank you for what you have done for GM.

It's funny, for the same exact reasons a lot of you are bashing on the 5th gen....are the same reasons it's selling as well as it is. Exactly how many 5th gens do you think GM would sell if they didn't have a more refined suspension, more electronics and the creature comforts? You have to realize there are a lot more buyers that want those options, than ones who don't. I have owned a lot of cars over the years and I mean a lot, but my 5th gen is by far my favorite.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/377smallblock/Camaro%20SS/NewWheels6.jpg

Exactly, it's like people bitching about Fuel Injection or ABS. GM didn't update the 4th gen at all other that power train for quite some time. The 4th had low sales numbers for a reason. It was an out of date car and GM learned from that. When I used to road trip in my 4th gen I would have to stop every couple hours to get feeling back in my ass. I drove my 5th gen from Georgia to IL with one gas stop and could have driven more. It seems like everyone likes the 5th gen other than 4th gen hold outs that refuse to give it a chance.

and btw yes they might be selling well , only because they are so popular
Huh???

they have been twisted out of their original meaning.. a Camaro isnt supposed to be for everyone .. soooo the 4th gen had bad sales and they were discontinued , does that make them a bad car ? they still turn heads , and perform like beasts.. sales are only a part of it if you ask me ..

Original meaning? You mean a working man's Corvette. A modestly priced sports car that everyone can afford. Seems to be well within the realm. I'm sure GM will disagree with your statement on sales, they are in the business to make money. Seeing as how much stake GM put in the hands of the consumer with the 5th gen in a focus group and Q and A sessions I would have to believe you guys are in the minority here. The 5th gen retains the "beast" aspect (and builds upon it) while becoming more refined and mainstream to ensure it's survival in the market.

I wanted the 5th gens to be awesome. I thought they looked pretty cool at first too. Artistically they encompass styling from all previous four generations of camaros, with the 1st being the main styling cue.
With that said, they are too big. they should have used a similar length/width to the 1st generation.
the weight is understandable, and just something that is always going to grow as Detroit adds more cupholders etc...
Looking as they do, the more I look at them, the more I feel that they just arent close enough for to the first gen for me to care. I actually like 2nd gen camaros and 3rd gen is starting to amuse me (because mostly, the only time I see a 3rd gen is at car shows, so they're always clean and fast)


but yeah, the 4gen looks more current than the 5th gen imo.

I have no real problem with the "5th gen" on it's own. It's just not a camaro.

That's the gist of the "4th gen holdouts". Great car, not a camaro.

I guess we dont want comfortable cars , personally i refuse to be a part of this technology and own the same car as anyone else who thinks its pretty , I want a car which only a group of people choose to drive , because they are uncomfortable , RAW , POWERFUL and affordable lol
I guess what I mean is its almost become JUST a popular car , like a biemer or something , people with no ideas on what a camaro is , wants to buy it , just because its popular .. Its not the "Camaro , the muscle car" anymore , Its different I guess , I just cant compare the old camaro's to the new ones , the word has lost its meaning with the 5th gen.. but I wont argue with you whether its a good car or not , TO ME , i prefer the 4th gen . to each his own .. I guess seeing other ppl think the same way as me got me carried away.. Its good to see camaro's live on ,but I'll always prefer 4th gens ..

well since everybody else is weighing in i will also.
1st off i have a decent looking black fbody and too be honest i really dont get compliments that often but in my cobra i always get compliments.
i like the looks of the 5th gen better than the 4th gen camaro,but will i ever buy one.....hell no there way to fat,i would much rather drive a 2011 5.0.
i all care about is speed,i could care less if my cars quite inside,i could care less if i have leather seats and all that other bs cars come with now.............god i love my 1sc camaro.

It's funny, for the same exact reasons a lot of you are bashing on the 5th gen....are the same reasons it's selling as well as it is. Exactly how many 5th gens do you think GM would sell if they didn't have a more refined suspension, more electronics and the creature comforts? You have to realize there are a lot more buyers that want those options, than ones who don't.

I understand and agree, except that I'm not one to "bash" the 5th gen, I've just pointed out why I don't think it's a *better* car for me and others like me. Of couse, for you more mainstream types, your tastes/likes/wants are different; you are in fact the majority. I see the market for a car like this, and one day I very well may own one for a daily driver, but only because I can't buy any new 4th gens. :P

soooo the 4th gen had bad sales and they were discontinued , does that make them a bad car ?

Not at all. They were better sellers than Corvette, for whatever that's worth.

GM didn't update the 4th gen at all other that power train for quite some time.

And that is exactly what I meant when I said they are as modern as you can get (powertrain) while still feeling old (rest of the car); which is something that a few of us can really appreciate. There is no way that I can make anyone understand this; either you do or you don't. And that's not meant to bash anyone or anyone's opinion, it's just a matter of personal preference. I try to keep technology to a minimum in all aspects of my life (I prefer simple, with cars and everything else).

It seems like everyone likes the 5th gen other than 4th gen hold outs that refuse to give it a chance.

It's not about refusal for me, I just won't ditch/bash/overlook my 4th gens simply because the 5th gen is a more "refined" car. I still have a great deal of resepct for the 3rd gens, even though I haven't owned one for 12 years and I prefer the 4th gen. I just don't disrespect old things that I loved because a newer version is released, and those of you that do likely never really cared for the 4th gen in the first place.

Seeing as how much stake GM put in the hands of the consumer with the 5th gen in a focus group and Q and A sessions I would have to believe you guys are in the minority here.

Again, I have never disputed that. More people are like you than like me, I'm very sure of that. You were probably in the group of 4th gen owners that complained about several aspects of your 4th gen and wanted something newer/more refined even while the 4th gens were still the newest Camaro offering.

On the other hand, I liked the 4th gens for exactly what they were, and I was never one of the guys bitching about refinement/design/anything else when the 4th gens were new. I was happy with what GM gave me in the 4th gens, so many of the modernizations found in the 5th gen were unasked for, and thus in some aspects unwelcome by me. Again, I realize I'm only one man and represent the opinion of the few.

Interestingly, there are people who complained about the 4th gen not being right for them, and even though all of their concerns were addressed by the 5th gen, some of them now complain about that one too. Some people are never happy, but I don't fit in that group. I was very happy with the 4th gens, and I showed it by buying two of them brand new and owning four total. I'm confident that I'll always own at least one.

The 5th gen retains the "beast" aspect (and builds upon it) while becoming more refined and mainstream to ensure it's survival in the market.

"Beast" is a matter of opinion I guess. Like I said above, even the 4th gens are hard to call a beast from my perspective. ;)

EDIT:

I want to be clear on something.... I'm certainly not trying to preach overall 4th gen superiority (at least not objectively) or to bash the 5th gens (as I've stated repeatedly, I'll probably own a 5th gen at some point). I realize that for the mainstream majority, the 5th gen is a better choice for several reasons (not the least of which is the fact it's a new car with a warranty). I'm merely trying to explain why, to a few of us, 4th gens are at-least-as/more desireable than a 5th gen. That is all.

Exactly, it's like people bitching about Fuel Injection or ABS. GM didn't update the 4th gen at all other that power train for quite some time. The 4th had low sales numbers for a reason. It was an out of date car and GM learned from that. When I used to road trip in my 4th gen I would have to stop every couple hours to get feeling back in my ass. I drove my 5th gen from Georgia to IL with one gas stop and could have driven more. It seems like everyone likes the 5th gen other than 4th gen hold outs that refuse to give it a chance.

Wrong. The 4th gen sales were not affected by the platform it was based at all. It has been the same layout since the beginning almost 30 years before the 4th gens. The platform proved to be solid and popular. GM KILLED the 4th gen by not been competitive in their prices (the 4th gen became unreachable for its real target audience) and because the early 90s saw the rise to fame of SUVs. Why Mustangs kept selling then? Those were even more "outdated" than our f-body cars. Get your facts right or please, inform yourself better.

Those out dated, out of styling line of cars made it possible for you having that pig of car you are proudly defending.

I would love to see how this new Camaro holds itself in the long run, say 10 years from now. My guess is it will do very poorly, more so than the 4th gens did.

Im not a 5th gen fan, it weighs too much. IMO chrysler won that battle with the challenger as far as looks go. If i were to spend 38k on a newer car, id invest in a used c6z.

comparing to mustang isn't very fair either. Ford uses the name mustang to refer to a car that has as much variety every year as if GM started naming the camaro, firebird and corvette all Corvette (back when all 3 were made each year). So of course Mustangs kept selling, there was a "mustang" for every type of consumer.

The camaro didn't die because it was a bad car. Pontiac didn't die because they made bad cars (maybe partly). They died because the people in charge are retards. Incompetent management decisions led to the carpocalypse (and to never really marketing the camaro and firebird to it's intended buyer).

Camaro and firebird have had a history of poor sales throughout the 3rd and 4th gen. It's not the car's fault. The people in charge just ignored imports competing for the same buyers and that turns out to be pretty stupid.

Wrong. The 4th gen sales were not affected by the platform it was based at all. It has been the same layout since the beginning almost 30 years before the 4th gens. The platform proved to be solid and popular. GM KILLED the 4th gen by not been competitive in their prices (the 4th gen became unreachable for its real target audience) and because the early 90s saw the rise to fame of SUVs. Why Mustangs kept selling then? Those were even more "outdated" than our f-body cars. Get your facts right or please, inform yourself better.

Those out dated, out of styling line of cars made it possible for you having that pig of car you are proudly defending.

I would love to see how this new Camaro holds itself in the long run, say 10 years from now. My guess is it will do very poorly, more so than the 4th gens did.

You may need a little history lesson. When the 4th gen and SN95 mustang came around at about the same time GM and ford took 2 very different approaches. Both of these cars were supposed to be FWD/ V6's but that never happened so each company built off of the platforms they had. Ford decided to round out the mustang and make it more user friendly and didn't make performance as much of a priority. GM on the other hand decided to go all in with performance with user friendliness taking a back seat. They were hard to get in and out of and rode like a milk wagon. Not to mention the chassis would feel like it was coming apart over railroad tracks after a few months. That's why the F-body was always popular with enthusiasts but didn't sell well in the market. V6 base models are what make money and make it possible for the high performance models to exist. This is what GM learned and applied to the 5th gen. So please read up a little before you make such uneducated statements.

I agree that heritage plays a huge roll in cars like the Camaro, Vette and Mustang but that doesn't change the fact that your 1970's developed chassis is out of date in 2011. That's common sense.

I don't know what you mean by "how it holds itself in the long run". You mean like the countless squeaks and rattles it would get like all 4th gens have or how many window motors I'll have to replace? The resale on a 2 year old SS is still holding up quite well. I remember looking at 98-00 WS.6's back in 02-03 and they were almost half price of new.

You may need a little history lesson. When the 4th gen and SN95 mustang came around at about the same time GM and ford took 2 very different approaches. Both of these cars were supposed to be FWD/ V6's but that never happened so each company built off of the platforms they had. Ford decided to round out the mustang and make it more user friendly and didn't make performance as much of a priority. GM on the other hand decided to go all in with performance with user friendliness taking a back seat. They were hard to get in and out of and rode like a milk wagon. Not to mention the chassis would feel like it was coming apart over railroad tracks after a few months. That's why the F-body was always popular with enthusiasts but didn't sell well in the market. V6 base models are what make money and make it possible for the high performance models to exist. This is what GM learned and applied to the 5th gen. So please read up a little before you make such uneducated statements.

I agree that heritage plays a huge roll in cars like the Camaro, Vette and Mustang but that doesn't change the fact that your 1970's developed chassis is out of date in 2011. That's common sense.

I don't know what you mean by "how it holds itself in the long run". You mean like the countless squeaks and rattles it would get like all 4th gens have or how many window motors I'll have to replace? The resale on a 2 year old SS is still holding up quite well. I remember looking at 98-00 WS.6's back in 02-03 and they were almost half price of new.

Wrong again.

You need to do a bit more of research. Let me help you a bit, look for a book titled "Pontiac Firebird: The Autobiography" author Marc Cranswick and kindly refer to the last chapter. It gives a detailed summary of what went wrong with the F-body and the reasons of why it was discontinued by GM. I think you are not only lost in the real history of these cars but also badly biased and opinionated about this subject, nice try though.

Next time you try an "informed" reply check your sources. You are just giving out a BIASED opinion and trying to pass it like a fact.

Are you seriously comparing the resale value of a two year old car vs a midnineties made car? I thought you could come up with a better argument than that.

Mine is a 1999 model with NO squeaks and rattles. You talk about that "beast" you have(at least in weight) like it has the quality of a handmade Rolls Royce and is quite pathetic. Ive seen quite a few examples and the amount of bad quality paintjobs and vast amounts of CHEAP plastic is still there, wait 10 years and be prepared to print this post of yours and eat it.

Wrong again.

You need to do a bit more of research. Let me help you a bit, look for a book titled "Pontiac Firebird: The Autobiography" author Marc Cranswick and kindly refer to the last chapter. It gives a detailed summary of what went wrong with the F-body and the reasons of why it was discontinued by GM. I think you are not only lost in the real history of these cars but also badly biased and opinionated about this subject, nice try though.

Next time you try an "informed" reply check your sources. You are just giving out a BIASED opinion and trying to pass it like a fact.

Are you seriously comparing the resale value of a two year old car vs a midnineties made car? I thought you could come up with a better argument than that.

Mine is a 1999 model with NO squeaks and rattles. You talk about that "beast" you have(at least in weight) like it has the quality of a handmade Rolls Royce and is quite pathetic. Ive seen quite a few examples and the amount of bad quality paintjobs and vast amounts of CHEAP plastic is still there, wait 10 years and be prepared to print this post of yours and eat it.

Well said. I am gonna check out that book, sounds like a good read.

I don't know what you mean by "how it holds itself in the long run".

I'm not exactly sure what he was getting at either, but I can tell you this: The 5th gen will be dismissed by the trendy-modern people when/if a 6th gen is released. Every arguement you make for current 5th gen superiority will be negated by a 6th gen (more refinement, better performance [presumably], newer technology, etc.). When a car is chasing after mainstream and/or trendy buyers, it's very nature is to not attract buyers who will be loyal to that specific car once something newer is released. This is why most older, mainstream cars have very little following or interest once they are no longer on the cutting edge of technology.

Non-mainstream cars (like Corvette, for example) usually have very loyal followings for each specific generation, since many of the people that buy these cars can appreciate them for more than just their temporary status as the latest offering, respective to their era. I'm not sure that the 5th gens will enjoy this level of loyalty from their owners, since many of you will probably drop them for a newer 6th gen if/when released and as soon as you can afford it.

The reasons why I like my 4th gens are reasons that won't go away or be negated by a newer car, no matter how many generations are released. The same cannot be said for many of the reasons why you prefer a 5th gen, which simply means that eventually you'll be making many of the same arguements for why the 6th gen is better (unless it becomes a FWD POS), should one be released. In other words, the 5th gen is great to you now, but how will you feel several years down the road?

You mean like the countless squeaks and rattles it would get like all 4th gens have or how many window motors I'll have to replace?

100k miles on my '02 car. One power window motor went out @ 95k. Only one squeak/rattle, from the passenger side t-top in cold weather. If the car was a hardtop, it would be squeak free. Just my experience.

I'm not exactly sure what he was getting at either, but I can tell you this: The 5th gen will be dismissed by the trendy-modern people when/if a 6th gen is released. Every arguement you make for current 5th gen superiority will be negated by a 6th gen (more refinement, better performance [presumably], newer technology, etc.). When a car is chasing after mainstream and/or trendy buyers, it's very nature is to not attract buyers who will be loyal to that specific car once something newer is released. This is why most older, mainstream cars have very little following or interest once they are no longer on the cutting edge of technology.

Non-mainstream cars (like Corvette, for example) usually have very loyal followings for each specific generation, since many of the people that buy these cars can appreciate them for more than just their temporary status as the latest offering, respective to their era. I'm not sure that the 5th gens will enjoy this level of loyalty from their owners, since many of you will probably drop them for a newer 6th gen if/when released and as soon as you can afford it.

The reasons why I like my 4th gens are reasons that won't go away or be negated by a newer car, no matter how many generations are released. The same cannot be said for many of the reasons why you prefer a 5th gen, which simply means that eventually you'll be making many of the same arguements for why the 6th gen is better (unless it becomes a FWD POS), should one be released. In other words, the 5th gen is great to you now, but how will you feel several years down the road?



100k miles on my '02 car. One power window motor went out @ 95k. Only one squeak/rattle, from the passenger side t-top in cold weather. If the car was a hardtop, it would be squeak free. Just my experience.


I meant durability in the long run. This guy refers to his car like its of a much better quality to the 4th gen ones. Hey, its new, its supposed to feel better! But as to anyone that has seen one of these up-close, its the same cheap plastic, not to mention the poor paint job, for example look on the underside of these cars hoods.

This guy refers to his car like its of a much better quality to the 4th gen ones. Hey, its new, its supposed to feel better!

Yeah, I have to agree with that as well.

As a person that bought 4th gens brand new (and still has one with low enongh miles to drive like new...thus giving me a recent comparasion), and a person that has also driven a new 5th gen, I have to say that I don't see where the 5th gen is so vastly superior in terms of initial quality, vs the 4th gens when brand new. Of course, long term quality/durability remains to be seen.

I think some people try to compare a worn out, 10+ year old 4th gen with 6-digit mileage to a brand new car and call it fair.

I think there are two groups of "4th Gen Holdouts" that exist, and many of the 5th Gen guys feel insulted by one of the groups.

One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.

The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though. :D

That said, the 5th gen may appeal to guys like me after the "craze" is over; at the moment, however, I just don't consider the upgrade to one worthy of my investment, because it won't make me any happier than what I've currently got in the garage.

And that is exactly what I meant when I said they are as modern as you can get (powertrain) while still feeling old (rest of the car); which is something that a few of us can really appreciate. There is no way that I can make anyone understand this; either you do or you don't. And that's not meant to bash anyone or anyone's opinion, it's just a matter of personal preference. I try to keep technology to a minimum in all aspects of my life (I prefer simple, with cars and everything else).


I agree with this statement 100% and is the main reason I love the 4th gens so much.

I have been into cars and worked on them my entire adult life. One thing I have noticed is that it is a waste of time to "car talk" with most 5th gen guys. There is always opinions and bias when it comes to people coming together who like different types of cars. It is part of the fun to me....the rivalry that exists. I have had many mustang friends and we disagree on many points but neither is unaware of their own car's faults. I just have never seen a group of people that bash every other type of car (not just 4th gens) with such conviction as 5th gen owners. I like the 5th gen a lot but no car is perfect. Just don't try to tell 5th gen owners that.

I think there are two groups of "4th Gen Holdouts" that exist, and many of the 5th Gen guys feel insulted by one of the groups.

One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.

The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, but would rather be placed in a "niche" group that value unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars because they're not a dime a dozen, though. :D

That said, the 5th gen may appeal to guys like me after the "craze" is over; at the moment, however, I just don't consider the upgrade to one worthy of my investment, because it won't make me any happier than what I've currently got in the garage.

I completely agree with you and it's the 2nd group, like yourself, that I get along with and take what you say as constructive criticism. Obviously the 4th gen and 5th gen aren't for everyone. Hell there are people out there that are passionate about Toyota Camry's, that's why there are different cars made. There was also a time when 3rd gens were new technology and so on. The fact is when the 6th gen comes out I'm sure it will be a better, more advanced car. The 1st group, like some people in this thread, are pointless to try to talk to.

I agree with this statement 100% and is the main reason I love the 4th gens so much.

I have been into cars and worked on them my entire adult life. One thing I have noticed is that it is a waste of time to "car talk" with most 5th gen guys. There is always opinions and bias when it comes to people coming together who like different types of cars. It is part of the fun to me....the rivalry that exists. I have had many mustang friends and we disagree on many points but neither is unaware of their own car's faults. I just have never seen a group of people that bash every other type of car (not just 4th gens) with such conviction as 5th gen owners. I like the 5th gen a lot but no car is perfect. Just don't try to tell 5th gen owners that.

I agree, there are a lot of 5th gen owners that run their mouths and can't run their cars. That's why a lot of people think the 5th gen is a 13 sec. car. I have stated that I liked my 4th gens but when fanboi's get involved I will argue with them for fun. IMO the biggest downfall of the 5th gen is most of the trendy owners. The 5th gen is far from perfect but I prefer it to any of my 4th gens. Now if I wanted mostly a track car I would start with a 4th gen but as a street and occasional strip car I love my 5th gen and have been pretty impressed by it with the mods I have done.

Wrong again.

You need to do a bit more of research. Let me help you a bit, look for a book titled "Pontiac Firebird: The Autobiography" author Marc Cranswick and kindly refer to the last chapter. It gives a detailed summary of what went wrong with the F-body and the reasons of why it was discontinued by GM. I think you are not only lost in the real history of these cars but also badly biased and opinionated about this subject, nice try though.

Next time you try an "informed" reply check your sources. You are just giving out a BIASED opinion and trying to pass it like a fact.

I have read a few Camaro and F-body book and that's where I take my facts from. I'll have to check out your firebird book because I'm sure it has completely different facts.

Are you seriously comparing the resale value of a two year old car vs a midnineties made car? I thought you could come up with a better argument than that.

No, read the whole post next time. I'm comparing a 2 years old car in 2011 and a 2 year old car in 2002. Seems like an apples to apples comparison.

Mine is a 1999 model with NO squeaks and rattles. You talk about that "beast" you have(at least in weight) like it has the quality of a handmade Rolls Royce and is quite pathetic. Ive seen quite a few examples and the amount of bad quality paintjobs and vast amounts of CHEAP plastic is still there, wait 10 years and be prepared to print this post of yours and eat it.
Congratulations, you must have subframe connectors or a very low mile car. Either way I'm very happy for you and your awesome car. If you think a 4th gen chassis has as much rigidity as a 5th gen then you obviously have read nothing about the 5th gen and just open your mouth to hear yourself talk. It's fact that the 5th gen is a stiffer chassis and doesn't need subframe connectors like the 4th. I never said my car was a Rolls Royce, this car is still a Chevrolet that is priced in the mid 30K.

just to add more fuel to the fire:
http://i44.tinypic.com/zv1w74.jpg
keep in mind, mines lowered.

it looks like a shark about to eat a catfish :engarde:

Some of these comments make me laugh.

Why wont the 5th gen develop a following or people that are passionate about it? The main reason I am hearing this is because it is too successful? or too new? what the hell. How can this be helped?

Of coarse their will be some idiot owners...especially when it is a very trendy car right now. But I see no reason why people will not be owning these in the future etc. like any other car. I am really confused by some of this reasoning. Seems a lot like jealousy in some cases.

Seems like most of the answers to this for a lot of you people is to take the car backward and make it harder to live with. In other words I guess GM should develop this car to fail?

I have no problem with 4th gens and I really dont understand some of the hate you guys bring to the table. It is just odd...and some of the reasons are even more ridiculous.

Anyone who thinks this car will not hold up in the long run knows nothing about how this car was built and needs to do some research. One look at the chassis structure etc does not take a rocket scientist to realize it will stay very solid for a very long time. Compared to the 4th gen the chassis is much more solid. Those cars would develop creases in the 1/4 panels if you ran them too hard without sub-frame connectors.

I think there are two groups of "4th Gen Holdouts" that exist, and many of the 5th Gen guys feel insulted by one of the groups.

One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.

The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though. :D

Yep, I agree completely on all points, as usual. :nod:

Some of these comments make me laugh.

Why wont the 5th gen develop a following or people that are passionate about it? The main reason I am hearing this is because it is too successful? or too new? what the hell. How can this be helped?

I'm pretty sure this was in response to my post, so allow me to clarify, since either I didn't get my point across properly or you misunderstood me.

It's not that they won't have a following, it's that the future following likely won't be nearly as stong as it is now (when the 5th gen is considered "outdated"). Reason being, much of the popularity and success that the 5th gen currently enjoys is because of it's appeal to more mainstream trendy buyers, and the very nature of these people is to constantly move on to whatever is "latest and greatest" (for example, all the people who feel the 5th gen is better simply because it's newer/more refined/etc., will say the same things about the eventual 6th gen and thus move on). As those people move on, you'll be left with the group of people who really love the 5th gens for what they are, above and beyond their position as the newest offering, and these people will stick with/buy these cars well into the future (just like 4th gens today). The question is, will this remaining group of people be as large/committed to this car as people who still love the various other generations of Camaro? Only time will tell, but the fact remains that 4th gens sales were lower mostly because they lacked the bulk of trendy buyers that the 5th gen has grabbed. In the end, even with higher sales than the 4th gen as a new car, the 5th gen may not prove to be more popular with hobbyists than a 4th gen, once similarly aged.

One thing that's interesting to consider is, again, Corvette. Corvette has always had low production numbers as compared to other mass-production cars, yet it has one of the strongest followings of any car ever produced, and it is by no means a mainstream car designed for general daily use by the average consumer. So in this case, you have a car with low build numbers that's been a massive success in the hobbyist market. Also interesting is the fact that ALL generations of Corvette contiune to maintain a stong loyalty among their owners....all from a non-mainstream car.

Point being, just because sales numbers are low doesn't mean the car isn't loved by it's owners, and conversely, just because a car is a popular seller when new doesn't mean that level of love will continue forever.

I am really confused by some of this reasoning. Seems a lot like jealousy in some cases.

In some cases, I'm sure you're right. But I can assure you this is not the case for me, as I could literally write a check for a new 5th gen tomorrow if I wanted it that bad. For a better understanding, see the post I quoted above by The Bronx Bull, it covers this point quite well.

Seems like most of the answers to this for a lot of you people is to take the car backward and make it harder to live with.

Personally, I just wish I could continue buying brand new 4th gens forever. But I know that's not the popular opinion, nor would it be a good business move for GM. On that note, I think I might start shopping for yet another low mileage 4th gen to make sure I have enough to last a lifetime. :lol:

Yep, I agree completely on all points, as usual. :nod:



I'm pretty sure this was in response to my post, so allow me to clarify, since either I didn't get my point across properly or you misunderstood me.

It's not that they won't have a following, it's that the future following likely won't be nearly as stong as it is now (when the 5th gen is considered "outdated"). Reason being, much of the popularity and success that the 5th gen currently enjoys is because of it's appeal to more mainstream trendy buyers, and the very nature of these people is to constantly move on to whatever is "latest and greatest" (for example, all the people who feel the 5th gen is better simply because it's newer/more refined/etc., will say the same things about the eventual 6th gen and thus move on). As those people move on, you'll be left with the group of people who really love the 5th gens for what they are, above and beyond their position as the newest offering, and these people will stick with/buy these cars well into the future (just like 4th gens today). The question is, will this remaining group of people be as large/committed to this car as people who still love the various other generations of Camaro? Only time will tell, but the fact remains that 4th gens sales were lower mostly because they lacked the bulk of trendy buyers that the 5th gen has grabbed. In the end, even with higher sales than the 4th gen as a new car, the 5th gen may not prove to be more popular with hobbyists than a 4th gen, once similarly aged.

One thing that's interesting to consider is, again, Corvette. Corvette has always had low production numbers as compared to other mass-production cars, yet it has one of the strongest followings of any car ever produced, and it is by no means a mainstream car designed for general daily use by the average consumer. So in this case, you have a car with low build numbers that's been a massive success in the hobbyist market. Also interesting is the fact that ALL generations of Corvette contiune to maintain a stong loyalty among their owners....all from a non-mainstream car.

Point being, just because sales numbers are low doesn't mean the car isn't loved by it's owners, and conversely, just because a car is a popular seller when new doesn't mean that level of love will continue forever.



In some cases, I'm sure you're right. But I can assure you this is not the case for me, as I could literally write a check for a new 5th gen tomorrow if I wanted it that bad. For a better understanding, see the post I quoted above by The Bronx Bull, it covers this point quite well.



Personally, I just wish I could continue buying brand new 4th gens forever. But I know that's not the popular opinion, nor would it be a good business move for GM. On that note, I think I might start shopping for yet another low mileage 4th gen to make sure I have enough to last a lifetime. :lol:

Thats mostly cool with me. Like what you want to like. And like I have said 1000x before I like the 4th gen a lot for its own reasons as well as the 5th gen.

All these points about the cars future success with enthusiasts is just purely speculation. It is not something to hinge an argument on and I think it is rather silly.

I am also not seeing how a car being successful now translates into it being a failure later. Not anymore than how a car being a failure in the past translates into it being more of a success in the future. This is an odd point of view and a grasp if I have ever seen one. I can kind of see what you are saying but it is a very odd point of view. Just because the mainstream likes a car doesn't mean a guy like me will not. Not unless I couldnt have one and I was being immature and foolish about it.

And since when is the 4th gen some timeless classic that everyone is dying for? Maybe in ls1tech land...but sadly most people dont really think much of them. I am surely not in agreement with the mainstream. I like the cars a lot. I like all GM LSX based cars. I am not sure how corvette sales are being compared to a camaro. The sales of a corvette are going to be much lower because of its price. Plain and simple. Not sure how this argument stacks up in any way.

I surely didnt see this coming a few years ago before the 5th gen came out. It is rather sad. I am truly convinced now that no matter what GM brings to the table their will always be plenty of people complaining or dogging it for their own reasons. I guess thats what makes the world go round. I didnt like the GTO worth a shit. But you didnt see me dogging in post after post.

Havent even bothered posting here much lately. And that is a shame because this is one of the best places on the web to get quality information. It seems all I get from half the people on this board when talking about 5th gens is negativity and ignorance.

If I didnt know any better I would have thought I was on a mustang board half the time. Hell...some of you have even said it. I dont even own a camaro. What a shame. You dont see mustang owners talking like that to one another. I guess thats why their cars never went out of production. Maybe with some of the help of others on this board we can see the camaro get discontinued once again some day.

All these points about the cars future success with enthusiasts is just purely speculation. It is not something to hinge an argument on and I think it is rather silly.

I am also not seeing how a car being successful now translates into it being a failure later. Not anymore than how a car being a failure in the past translates into it being more of a success in the future. This is an odd point of view and a grasp if I have ever seen one. I can kind of see what you are saying but it is a very odd point of view. Just because the mainstream likes a car doesn't mean a guy like me will not. Not unless I couldnt have one and I was being immature and foolish about it.

Again, I think you've missed my point. All this talk of success and failure is off target; all I was pointing out is that, to the people focusing on sales numbers, you must tame that notion with the fact that many of those sales are to people who would just as soon drop the car for the next newest offering. Thus, it will be interesting to see how these cars do on the popularity front in the future, once the mainstream new car chasers have left the scene for a 6th gen. That is all. No more, no less. In the end, it will have zero impact on my opinion of either car, it's really just a side discussion that developed.

And since when is the 4th gen some timeless classic that everyone is dying for? Maybe in ls1tech land...but sadly most people dont really think much of them.

I'm sure, in the future, there will be many previous 5th gen owners who then own 6th gens and make this same statement about the 5th gen. The cycle will continue, regardless of how popular the 5th gen is today. I think some 5th gen owners might be forgetting that, while they're putting down the 4th gen today.


I am not sure how corvette sales are being compared to a camaro.

I just used Corvette to illustrate how a car with low sales figures can still be very popular as it ages. When you take it out of context, then yes it's of little meaning by itself.

I surely didnt see this coming a few years ago before the 5th gen came out. It is rather sad. I am truly convinced now that no matter what GM brings to the table their will always be plenty of people complaining or dogging it for their own reasons.

Like I said earlier, I was *not* one of the guys that ever complained about the 4th gens, had GM continued to build them to this day (now with an LS3, stock), I would be perfectly happy and never would have complained. What is sad are the people that complained about the 4th gens, wanting more refinement and "daily-liveability", and GM gave them this with the 5th gen, yet many of them still complain (too much weight, too big, etc.). Again, some people are never happy. I was happy, I wasn't complaining, then things changed to suit popular opinion. Now I'm just hoarding 4th gens to keep myself happy. :lol:

It seems all I get from half the people on this board when talking about 5th gens is negativity

I get that same feeling from a lot of 5th gen owners who seem to love bashing 4th gens. How soon people forget that 4th gens were once king of the affordable new car performance market. So much disrespect for cars that delivered something no other car could touch for similar money in their era.

One day, I too will probably have a 5th gen (when my daily driver '02 car gets too worn out to be worth fixing), but you'll never here me bashing the 4th gens. Like I said earlier, I don't disrepect older things that I love simply because something new comes along. When all the trendy, modern people move on to 6th gens and start bashing the 5th gens, I'll probably be the one defending both the 4th AND 5th gens then. :lol:

You dont see mustang owners talking like that to one another.

You don't? :lol: Well, we must live in very different parts of the world then. I know plenty of OHV 5.0 guys that have a great deal of contempt for the 4.6L.

The fact is, not everyone is interested in change. Maybe the majority is, maybe some are even interested in constant change. Personally, I like to find things that make me happy and stick with them; but I realize that won't work for everyone.

I really think the new Camaro looks kinda like a 1986 Monte Carlo SS in my opinion... I vote for the new Mustang 5.0.

I really think the new Camaro looks kinda like a 1986 Monte Carlo SS in my opinion...

:confused:

:loco:

My 99 doesn't rattle at all though its not beat to death.

4th gens are crude cars compared to 5th gens. A 5th gen V8 may not be the killer in its class speed wise like the LS1 V8s but sans that its a nice ride,has nice brakes,much more modern car and much solid car. Yes visibility sucks in the rear,interior is kinda of cheap and bland, and its heavy but its better than nothing. Remember the 4th gens in regards to sales didn't really succeed. Most of us here don't care of about the LS1 Fbodies short comings and are for straight line kick ass speed/performance with mods etc and thats where the LS1 F body really shines!!

it looks like a shark about to eat a catfish :engarde:

Or, a pin about to pop a balloon. The OP was referring to the massive quality of the 5th gen versus the 4th gen, and I have to agree. It just looks overstuffed to me, in a way that none of the previous generations did.

I'm not a big fan of excessive retro styling though, I would have preferred to see more of a progression. Retro introduces a strange, alternate-universe-type problem...when they have to restyle the retro model, do they continue down the SAME path they did originally, 40 years ago? Do 6th gen Camaros look like 2nd gens? (and, more importantly, do 8th gens look like 4th gens?) Or do they take a different path? Mustang kind of did follow the '69 to '70 restyle in '09 to '10. Should be interesting to see what they do with the Camaro.

well if I HAD TO get another car , and couldnt afford a vette , and wanted someting more refined and comfortable , Id actually prefer a 11" Stang 5.0 .. I liked the 5th gen camaro , I was happy to see it continue , Its a nice car , but Its kinda fat . I'll just clear up that Im not just bashing it , Im saying Id rather own a 4th gen .. I'll let you guys discuss the more complicated stuff (sales,etc ) but Id like to add that my 1998 car hasnt burnt the window motors yet , door panels arent cracked either :D

I love how there are some financial geniuses who reach the conclusion that if one find this car hideous, then one must be not able to buy it, and that explains the opinion said guy (me in this case) has. Wonderful.

With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.

I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.

I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.

Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.

I love how there are some financial geniuses who reach the conclusion that if one find this car hideous, then one must be not able to buy it, and that explains the opinion said guy (me in this case) has. Wonderful.

With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.

I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.

I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.

Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.


I was not grouping you into those that are jeoulous or what not.

Starting to lean that way now given the way you present yourself.

I just dont understand why people have to dog something so passionately if they care so little about it. The only reason one does such a thing is if they are threatened or jealous in some way. Or I guess it could be if one is immature and chooses to express opinions in such ways. Some people never reach the final level of mental reasoning. I guess thats ok also.

Why waste the time if you truly dont care? Beats me....

I was not grouping you into those that are jeoulous or what not.

Starting to lean that way now given the way you present yourself.

I just dont understand why people have to dog something so passionately if they care so little about it. The only reason one does such a thing is if they are threatened or jealous in some way. Or I guess it could be if one is immature and chooses to express opinions in such ways. Some people never reach the final level of mental reasoning. I guess thats ok also.

Why waste the time if you truly dont care? Beats me....

Oh, now you were not grouping me? What was the reason behind your post then? To group other guys? Whats the difference then?

It comes down to your immature and poorly sustainable argument in this discussion. It takes away from any credibility you may had in this thread.

You are just taking the easy way out but dont worry, what you wrote is there buddy. You took the level of the thread to whole new level, way down though.

Presenting myself? How about presenting yourself? The one genius who decided some who dont like the car do so because they cant afford it! Nice presentation, way to go!

As with most discussions here, when the "reasoning" starts to stink, stupidity flourishes.

This thread was once a jib-jab back and forth between two mutually respected camps, with some meaningful discussion interjected; now it's more like a soap opera... :rolleyes:

Oh, now you were not grouping me? What was the reason behind your post then? To group other guys? Whats the difference then?

It comes down to your immature and poorly sustainable argument in this discussion. It takes away from any credibility you may had in this thread.

You are just taking the easy way out but dont worry, what you wrote is there buddy. You took the level of the thread to whole new level, way down though.

Presenting myself? How about presenting yourself? The one genius who decided some who dont like the car do so because they cant afford it! Nice presentation, way to go!

As with most discussions here, when the "reasoning" starts to stink, stupidity flourishes.


WOW....your even worse than I thought. You just look for reasons to argue with people. I never said you specifically or made any comment that you could not afford the car.

thanks for proving my point!

Get back with me when you can have an intelligent discussion and not act like a child.

4th Gen FTMFW!!!!!!! jk, lol...this thread really has gotten out of control.
Bottom line is we need to hope GM continues to push to make these cars better and better and not just focus on trendy fads in an effort to pad sales.

I just dont understand why people have to dog something so passionately if they care so little about it. The only reason one does such a thing is if they are threatened or jealous in some way.....Why waste the time if you truly dont care? Beats me....

Well, I know this reply wasn't directed specifically at me, but I'll present my reasoning for even getting involved in these discussions....

I'm not bothered, threatened or jealous of 5th gens in any way, nor do I ever "bash" them. Truth is, they are certainly better than not having any Camaro at all (we need more OHV, V8, RWD 2-door cars; not less). Will I ever own one? Yeah, that could certainly happen. Will I ever love them as much as the 4th gens? No, most likely not. But, IMO, that does not equate to bashing at all, it's just my personal feelings for reasons I presented much earlier in this thread.

But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.

So overall, my involvement has nothing to do with bashing 5th gens, it's only to defend 4th gens and point out why they are the preferred car *for some of us*.

This thread was once a jib-jab back and forth between two mutually respected camps, with some meaningful discussion interjected; now it's more like a soap opera... :rolleyes:

Yeah, it seems to be headed down the road of personal attacks and loss of all meaningful discussion. I'll just lock it down if it gets much worse....

I think there are two groups of "4th Gen Holdouts" that exist, and many of the 5th Gen guys feel insulted by one of the groups.

One group are current owners of 4th gens who bash the 5th gen repeatedly, primarily because they do not have the financial means to obtain one. I think there are many people on this site that are quick to bash anything that they don't own, and promote what they do own; that's a habit sometimes, when you've invested a lot of money in something. However, if someone were to say "I'll trade you my comparable 5th gen Camaro for your 4th gen" to this group of guys, they would take it in a heartbeat, and would subsequently jump on the 5th gen bandwagon.

The second group of guys, most notably like RPM WS6 and myself, admire the 5th gen for what it is, and respect the fact that GM is trying to make the Camaro appeal to the masses to promote financial gain for their company, but we feel as though our 4th gens are a better fit for our personality traits. We don't like owning things that are new and popular, and would rather be placed in a "niche" group that values unique ideas of the past, like the OHV V8's of a 4th gen, the rough and raw handling style, and the overall simplicity. If you were to offer your comparable 5th gen in trade for our clean 4th gens, we would say "No," instinctively. We (well, I at least!) still love the top dogs like the C6Z06 and ZR1 cars, even though they're new and modern, because they're not a dime a dozen, though. :D

That said, the 5th gen may appeal to guys like me after the "craze" is over; at the moment, however, I just don't consider the upgrade to one worthy of my investment, because it won't make me any happier than what I've currently got in the garage.

This is hands down the most accurate post in this entire thread. Well said :nod:

How about a look at the two cars from a different angle?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/2.jpg

Well, I know this reply wasn't directed specifically at me, but I'll present my reasoning for even getting involved in these discussions....

I'm not bothered, threatened or jealous of 5th gens in any way, nor do I ever "bash" them. Truth is, they are certainly better than not having any Camaro at all (we need more OHV, V8, RWD 2-door cars; not less). Will I ever own one? Yeah, that could certainly happen. Will I ever love them as much as the 4th gens? No, most likely not. But, IMO, that does not equate to bashing at all, it's just my personal feelings for reasons I presented much earlier in this thread.

But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.

So overall, my involvement has nothing to do with bashing 5th gens, it's only to defend 4th gens and point out why they are the preferred car *for some of us*.



Yeah, it seems to be headed down the road of personal attacks and loss of all meaningful discussion. I'll just lock it down if it gets much worse....


:thumb:

Thanks for an intelligent response.

I understand where you are coming from and thats cool with me.

And for the 1000x time. I have no problem with the 4th gen. :chug:

But on to the main point...why get involved.... well, for me it's mostly because I'm sick of the 4th gen bashing that seems to be popular amongst many 5th gen owners. I'm not pointing any fingers, but there is a big group of people around this site that seem to think there is NO reason to own a 4th gen unless you're too poor to buy something "newer/better", and that the only reason why 4th gen owners don't have a 5th gen is because they can't afford it - otherwise they too would own one. In some cases I'm sure this is correct, but it's certainly not true in all cases. Furthermore, I see a lot of people who's only 4th gen experience has been with high mileage, beat cars, which they then compare to a brand new 5th gen and wrongfully assume that all 4th gens were rattling worn out pieces of junk from day one. Again, I've been around long enough to know better.

Exactly why I will just don't tolerate anyone trying to get to retarded conclusions about someone financial status becuase of a particular car preference. Its just completely out of line.

Essentially that's what I meant with my post. That particular post , about financial status, brought down the level of this discussion.

I will not post anything more here, useless and frankly this car does not merit a 10 page thread, IMO. If something some people should really inform better about their car of choice history.

This is hands down the most accurate post in this entire thread. Well said :nod:

How about a look at the two cars from a different angle?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/2.jpg



im jealous of that collection.


:drool:


get some stripes on that 4th gen.

im jealous of that collection.


:drool:

It is an awesome pair, but I'm pretty sure he sold the '99 car (I considered buying it when it was for sale).

I've also seen pics of his previous '73 Hugger Orange Camaro. Imagine having all three in your collection at once.....I'd never be able to leave the garage. :D

It is an awesome pair, but I'm pretty sure he sold the '99 car (I considered buying it when it was for sale).

I've also seen pics of his previous '73 Hugger Orange Camaro. Imagine having all three in your collection at once.....I'd never be able to leave the garage. :D

Yup, the 99 is gone :mad:

And you're right on the mark....if I could have swung it, to have the 73, 99 & 10 would have been the ULTIMATE garage for me. :chug:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/untitled5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/99.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/huggerorange73/DSC06947.jpg

man, what was your set up on that 73! thats sweet and might be the nicest one of them all!


that split bumper really sets it off.

I love how there are some financial geniuses who reach the conclusion that if one find this car hideous, then one must be not able to buy it, and that explains the opinion said guy (me in this case) has. Wonderful.

With that kind of argument in favor of the 5th gen we have officially reached the lowest possible level of discussion and to me it only reinforces the opinion that most guys who have bought the 5th gen did so just to be riding the "flavor of the month" and will, undoubtedly, move on to the next one and so the cycle continues. Are these guys really car enthusiasts? Not in my book. These just get car to be seen in it. No real passion for cars at all, not to mention POOR knowledge of car's history.

I could buy one of these 5th gens, I just would never do it because it looks and feels like a bloated pig. Plain. And. Simple. Also I dont need to discuss my line of work with ANYONE here.

I hope that when the hype fades away the 5th gens fall finally into real car guys, not primadonas with a desperate need to be seen.

Yes, I have reached my own conclusions in the subject just like some magically knew my finances and how some posted opinions as facts WITHOUT citing their "sources", just something like "Ive read several books", quite precise, huh? Laughable at best.

its safe to say that im not most guys and i didn't buy mine to be an attention whore or because that's what's hot. i bought it bc of the LS3, and if i didnt drive from SC to VA and back often, i wouldve gotten a LS3 vette. have you driven a new 5th gen? i can tell you that it handles 3x better than my 98 did. i do miss my 4th gen though.

its safe to say that im not most guys and i didn't buy mine to be an attention whore or because that's what's hot. i bought it bc of the LS3, and if i didnt drive from SC to VA and back often, i wouldve gotten a LS3 vette. have you driven a new 5th gen? i can tell you that it handles 3x better than my 98 did. i do miss my 4th gen though.

Yes Ive driven one, wait, make that two. I felt like I was in a can of tuna, almost claustrophobic. I dont know the exact dimensions but it felt much more cramped than my 4th gen. It was quieter (expected for a new car) and it handled better than a 4th gen (not mine since I have a few suspension mods). Power wise it felt slow, lets say slower than I expected. Outside visibility sucks, even compared with a 4th gen. Trunk space? If that slot in the back can be called a trunk well, minimal. It felt, bloated, big and cramped to summarize.

Relating to the "attention whore" comment, its obvious real car enthusiasts (probably like yourself) have been getting them, but sadly most have been bought by a lot of those "whores". Some will drop the 5th gen to get their delicate asses into the 6th gen or any other popular car available at the time. Then they will keep babbling nonsense and pass opinions as facts and so the endless "prick parade" will keep going on.

Yes Ive driven one, wait, make that two. I felt like I was in a can of tuna, almost claustrophobic. I dont know the exact dimensions but it felt much more cramped than my 4th gen. It was quieter (expected for a new car) and it handled better than a 4th gen (not mine since I have a few suspension mods). Power wise it felt slow, lets say slower than I expected. Outside visibility sucks, even compared with a 4th gen. Trunk space? If that slot in the back can be called a trunk well, minimal. It felt, bloated, big and cramped to summarize.

Relating to the "attention whore" comment, its obvious real car enthusiasts (probably like yourself) have been getting them, but sadly most have been bought by a lot of those "whores". Some will drop the 5th gen to get their delicate asses into the 6th gen or any other popular car available at the time. Then they will keep babbling nonsense and pass opinions as facts and so the endless "prick parade" will keep going on.

just curious.. how many miles were on the 2 5th gens you drove? and im assuming you've driven an m6? i ask that bc in my honest opinion when i picked my car up from the dealership and i gunned it to see what it had, i was disappointed in comparison to my z, i gave it some time and as soon as i hit about 1500 miles it opened up quite a bit. Now i have 6k miles and its a completely different car as far as power goes. i/we can only hope GM evolves with this car like they did with the lt1's to the ls1's and ford with the 4.6 to the 4v 5.0. i think they have to. on another note, i think i could fit 2 dead bodies in my trunk lol. i do agree that the 5th gens are more appealing to the mainstream as opposed to the 4th gens where its sole purpose was to perform.

Both were autos, both were RS/SS models. One was like 2,000 or 3,000, the other was aprox. 8,000. Both completely stock. Yes the more miles one felt stronger but still not as I expected.

Tw0 dead bodies? Rat bodies that is? LOL! Seriously it had a small trunk specially when you consider the overall car size.

just curious.. how many miles were on the 2 5th gens you drove? and im assuming you've driven an m6? i ask that bc in my honest opinion when i picked my car up from the dealership and i gunned it to see what it had, i was disappointed in comparison to my z, i gave it some time and as soon as i hit about 1500 miles it opened up quite a bit. Now i have 6k miles and its a completely different car as far as power goes. i/we can only hope GM evolves with this car like they did with the lt1's to the ls1's and ford with the 4.6 to the 4v 5.0. i think they have to. on another note, i think i could fit 2 dead bodies in my trunk lol. i do agree that the 5th gens are more appealing to the mainstream as opposed to the 4th gens where its sole purpose was to perform.

They definitely do feel slower than what they are. Seat of the pants does not always tell the whole story IMO. They do pick up after break in...and also having the TC and stability changes things A LOT. If the car is in normal mode it literally feels like about 50hp less. Every time I get in the car I hold the magic button down for 7 seconds.

I was no less than BLOWN AWAY with how fast this car is with the mods I have now. I beat my buddies 6 speed H/C 2000 z28 with this car twice. I posted about it a while back and he even discussed it on here as well (he is also a member). I got a nice good flame for it from a lot of 4th gen owners and doubters...but it is what it is I suppose. Maybe I out drove him. It was a 40 to 130 race. These cars are far from slow.

Both were autos, both were RS/SS models. One was like 2,000 or 3,000, the other was aprox. 8,000. Both completely stock. Yes the more miles one felt stronger but still not as I expected.

Tw0 dead bodies? Rat bodies that is? LOL! Seriously it had a small trunk specially when you consider the overall car size.


Really? The trunk opening is on the small side....but the trunk itself is gigantic. The rear seats also both fold down if thats not enough. Two people could just about sleep back their after that.

BTW... a lot of the L99's require a fuse pull due to dealers putting 87 in them. They will even stay in low octane mode after the correct gas is run. Plenty of people have reported L99 cars only putting down ~280 rwhp and running 14's due to this. A properly running L99 will hit 12's in good conditions and put down 320-340rwhp.

Really? The trunk opening is on the small side....but the trunk itself is gigantic. The rear seats also both fold down if thats not enough. Two people could just about sleep back their after that.

BTW... a lot of the L99's require a fuse pull due to dealers putting 87 in them. They will even stay in low octane mode after the correct gas is run. Plenty of people have reported L99 cars only putting down ~280 rwhp and running 14's due to this. A properly running L99 will hit 12's in good conditions and put down 320-340rwhp.

good point, i forgot about the fuse pulls. ive never driven an L99 though. i know my dealer had 87 octane in mine, i was a little urked initially. i did the fuse pull on mine as well, i heard some guys reported a difference on their LS3's so i figured id give it a try. For me now, its not like it matters anymore anyway

I too was really disappointed by the seat of the pants feel at first. I think it's the suspension and high belt line that make it feel slow. These cars wake up with more miles and minimal mods and my car has surprised the crap out of me at the track. Public opinion is pretty scewed because people like us are the minority and the middle aged "vette" guys that bought the flavor of the week are what most people see at test and tunes. I can't stand the dipshits on Camaro5 congratulating each other for running low 13's with full bolt-ons. But that has become the norm as to what people think these cars and the owners are capable of and that is the one thing that really sucks about owning this car.

BTW... a lot of the L99's require a fuse pull due to dealers putting 87 in them. They will even stay in low octane mode after the correct gas is run. Plenty of people have reported L99 cars only putting down ~280 rwhp and running 14's due to this. A properly running L99 will hit 12's in good conditions and put down 320-340rwhp.

Wow, I had no idea that the timing table would lock on low octane and stay there, even after a refuel.

So is this fuse trick the same deal as how we used to reset the SES light on 4th gens (pull PCM BAT & PCM IGN)? Can you just use a scanner and clear DTCs/MIL to achieve the same result?

Wow, I had no idea that the timing table would lock on low octane and stay there, even after a refuel.

So is this fuse trick the same deal as how we used to reset the SES light on 4th gens (pull PCM BAT & PCM IGN)? Can you just use a scanner and clear DTCs/MIL to achieve the same result?

Here is a link to more info.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38964

It is such a widespread problem they made it a sticky at Camaro5.

Octane...one of the founding members of moderncamaro.com had a faulty L99 as well. His experience was well documented and he ended up getting some type of performance tune from GM still under warranty after it was said and done.

He was logging 6-7 second 0-60 times and could not get out of the 14's in the 1/4 mile with his car.

He ran a 12.8 after the tune.

Here is a link to more info.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38964

It is such a widespread problem they made it a sticky at Camaro5.

Octane...one of the founding members of moderncamaro.com had a faulty L99 as well. His experience was well documented and he ended up getting some type of performance tune from GM still under warranty after it was said and done.

He was logging 6-7 second 0-60 times and could not get out of the 14's in the 1/4 mile with his car.

He ran a 12.8 after the tune.

Thanks for the info.

I'm going to check out that link and start learning about this issue. If I ever buy a 5th gen, it will be an L99 (I'm all about the auto), so this is something that would concern me.

I don't think I've heard about the automatic LS3 Corvettes having this issue, so I'm guessing it has more to do with it being an L99 than an auto, correct? LOL.... maybe I should just read the link. :D

I too was really disappointed by the seat of the pants feel at first. I think it's the suspension and high belt line that make it feel slow. These cars wake up with more miles and minimal mods and my car has suprised the crap out of me at the track. Public opinion is pretty scewed because people like us are the minority and the middle aged "vette" guys that bought the flavor of the week are what most people see at test and tunes. I can't stand the dipshits on Camaro5 congratulating each other for running low 13's with full bolt-ons. But that has beome the norm as to what people think these cars and the owners are capable of and that is the one thing that really sucks about owning this car.

lol i know what you mean. i cant stand to stay on camaro5 for very long sometimes. about 80 percent of people over there dont know what the hell they're talking about and what really pisses me off is when another dam thread comes along about what friken exhaust some guy wants to get. do a search, for real. thats all i ever see on the bolton section, it gets old :bang:. i do like going over there to see what news has sprout up, and pictures of members cars.

Thanks for the info.

I'm going to check out that link and start learning about this issue. If I ever buy a 5th gen, it will be an L99 (I'm all about the auto), so this is something that would concern me.

I don't think I've heard about the automatic LS3 Corvettes having this issue, so I'm guessing it has more to do with it being an L99 than an auto, correct? LOL.... maybe I should just read the link. :D

A few members with LS3's reported the problem as well. For the most part is is an L99 issue though.

I dont doubt something is going to happen very soon with the base model SS. Might just want to wait and see what the 12 model has in store...especially for the auto cars. I am sure it is no secret to GM that the L99 is a bit behind the auto 5.0.

I like the look of the 5th gen but after test driving one I chose the 2011 Mustang GT as my daily driver. The view out of the car was much better and the interior pieces were much nicer even in the base model. They both were different animals than my 2000 Firebird Formula. It was raw power and I liked that for a while. Alas, it had to be sacraficed for the Whipple that will soon be on the Mustang.

I just plain hate mod motors.and will never own any vehicle with one.
I'm just waitin for the prices to drop to cash prices for the v6 5th gens.
Then I can swap and build at will like every other ls car I've owned. From machine work and assembly of the engine to building hot parts from scratch.
I know the v8s will always be higher priced unless there wrecked. But eventually the v6 owners are gonna start looking to upgrade or get something else. And I will be there.

.

I don't think a 2011 5.0 will take anywhere near the boost like the 03,04 Cobra's do.


.

I dont doubt something is going to happen very soon with the base model SS. Might just want to wait and see what the 12 model has in store...especially for the auto cars. I am sure it is no secret to GM that the L99 is a bit behind the auto 5.0.

Yeah, I'm hoping for something better than the L99. I was disappointed when the info was released about manditory L99s for the A6 V8 Camaros (I want an auto, but I don't want DoD...they should have just used the LS3 like the A6 Corvette).

Although I've rarely deviated from GM, at this point I'm almost more interested in an auto 5.0 GT than an L99 Camaro for a future daily driver. My current daily driver has some life left in it though, so I've got time to wait it out for a while and see what happens. ;)

Here's a comparison pic I took today, we had some decent weather in Chicago. IMO it doesn't make the size look as drastically different as the pic on the OP. My car is lowered and wears a slimming looking color, the 4th gen is stock ride height.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/dkasky84/175169_910671744590_22924151_48603790_7668121_o.jp g

I like the look of the 5th gen but after test driving one I chose the 2011 Mustang GT as my daily driver. The view out of the car was much better and the interior pieces were much nicer even in the base model. They both were different animals than my 2000 Firebird Formula. It was raw power and I liked that for a while. Alas, it had to be sacraficed for the Whipple that will soon be on the Mustang.

I keep hearing about the interior quality so this year at the Chicago auto show I sat in a 5.0 and really paid attention to interior quality compared to the Camaro and just couldn't see the difference. The only thing I noticed is that there is more chrome plated plastic on the mustang but the materials were just as cheap in both cars.

just to add more fuel to the fire:
http://i44.tinypic.com/zv1w74.jpg
keep in mind, mines lowered.

DAMN so this is the new Aliens VS Predators


the 2010 looks good in a few select colors... the 4 gens make nicer track cars, and to address what that guy said, "everyone and their mother has one" definately hit the nail on the head... but he forgot the grandparents sister uncles aunts, and the in laws extended family, an just about anyone with a pulse has one... except me:gruffy:

Here's a comparison pic I took today, we had some decent weather in Chicago. IMO it doesn't make the size look as drastically different as the pic on the OP. My car is lowered and wears a slimming looking color, the 4th gen is stock ride height.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/dkasky84/175169_910671744590_22924151_48603790_7668121_o.jp g

You can plainly see in that nose to nose pic that the 5th gen is sitting uphill from the 4th gen. Makes it look a little worse than it is. When I parked next to a C6 last summer though it was really alarming LOL.

The 5th gen definitely needs lowering. I couldnt believe how much better my car looked after the PFADT springs. Its gonna be sweet as hell this year with it being lowered. Ive also got some really nice chrome rims to go on it and I painted the calipers red and put a nice white brembo sticker on them.

I also checked out a couple 5.0's and really didnt see how the quality was any nicer. And when comparing base model to base model the SS interior is much more attractive IMO. I also prefer the camaro layout because it is new and refreshing IMO.

Yeah, I'm hoping for something better than the L99. I was disappointed when the info was released about manditory L99s for the A6 V8 Camaros (I want an auto, but I don't want DoD...they should have just used the LS3 like the A6 Corvette).

Although I've rarely deviated from GM, at this point I'm almost more interested in an auto 5.0 GT than an L99 Camaro for a future daily driver. My current daily driver has some life left in it though, so I've got time to wait it out for a while and see what happens. ;)

Yeah the Auto 5.0 is definitely a performer (as is the manual).

The L99 isnt too bad with a couple mods though. Quite a few people are going 11's with bolt ons and street tires full weight (I think the top spot for bolt on L99 is 11.7 @ 117 right now). The factory tune and especially trans tune is really conservative from the factory.

I'd definitely wait and see what happens at this point though. The V6 is getting a new motor in 2012...something has to be in store for the SS soon.

I too was really disappointed by the seat of the pants feel at first. I think it's the suspension and high belt line that make it feel slow. These cars wake up with more miles and minimal mods and my car has suprised the crap out of me at the track. Public opinion is pretty scewed because people like us are the minority and the middle aged "vette" guys that bought the flavor of the week are what most people see at test and tunes. I can't stand the dipshits on Camaro5 congratulating each other for running low 13's with full bolt-ons. But that has beome the norm as to what people think these cars and the owners are capable of and that is the one thing that really sucks about owning this car.

That does bring up a good point, i think it sucks when people that do enjoy what for most people is just a fad or the next big thing ruin, and people get these preconceived ideas that everyone that owns one is this way as well. But if i was into the 5th gen i wouldn't even care and if i had one i would stfu haters when i raced them. A lot of my friends give me beef for my car cause its not their srt4 or rsx or etc, but their eye candy can eat my shit when i blow past them. All in all its what people want, and reputations are going to go along with it. If someone really likes civics and they put a lot of money and time into it most likely they will still be seen in most peoples eyes as a ordinary "ricer". Same with these cars, unfortunately, old ladies or moms that liked the movie transformers bought a lot of these cars or whatever "the crowd" lol so yeah people that are really into them are just labeled the same. I think if they are a really good car that this will be overcome and people will speak differently about them, especially if there is slaughter on the streets!

I own a LS3 5th gen...I agree that alot of people picked up this car because it is the car to have! I personally HATE that, and there are alot of those guys on camaro5...it sucks for guys like me that have this car for the reasons I have it! I have always been a camaro guy and this 5th gen to me is the baddest camaro built in years, I wanted it to race and modd the shit out of it and it was about time they gave us a new camaro! Give it some time to weed out the possers who cant handle driving a muscle car every day! They will end up in there family cars agian :D

Give it some time to weed out the possers who cant handle driving a muscle car every day!

That was the whole point of the 5th gen though. A muscle car that was more daily-liveable than previous Camaros.

Here's a comparison pic I took today, we had some decent weather in Chicago. IMO it doesn't make the size look as drastically different as the pic on the OP. My car is lowered and wears a slimming looking color, the 4th gen is stock ride height.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/dkasky84/175169_910671744590_22924151_48603790_7668121_o.jp gThis is the first fair full-body pic in the thread. The others have the 5th gen in the foreground, pulled further forward than the 4th, making it look more huge than it is.

I dont think its any more liveable then my 4th gen, its definitly nicer and has a better ride but I dont think it makes it that much more liveable. I personally love driving mine every day, gives me something to look foward too when I have to get up for work :D But I think the possers will get sick of it.

The 5th Gen Camaro looks nice and has a wonderful powerplant the L99/LS3.

I would however prefer a '84-'87 Monte Carlo or '93-'02 Camaro with an LSX swap or a '05-'06 GTO to the 5th Gen.

My DD is an '08 Charger V-6 caused I like the ride but miss the HP/TQ of a V-8.

:eyes: :D ;)

I agree I love monte's but the GTO :barf: The 5th gen is plane awesome, not sure how much time you spent around them ( it matters )... but if you had one sitting in your garage you might change your mind :nod: Thats the same thing my friend said when I told him I was getting one, now he LOVEs this car and wants one... go figure. The 4th gen is awesome too, just in a different way but after having both I would never buy a 4th gen agian unless I was building an all out gutted drag car. Th 5th gens ride and feel is so far ahead of the 4th its not even funny! My brother still has his 98 t/a and guess what he wants now too...but when you ride in the T/A then get in my car its night and day. Not bashing the 4th gens I LOVE em...but some 4th gen guys are saying the new one is crap :bang: Thats crazy talk!

I own a LS3 5th gen...I agree that alot of people picked up this car because it is the car to have! I personally HATE that, and there are alot of those guys on camaro5...it sucks for guys like me that have this car for the reasons I have it! I have always been a camaro guy and this 5th gen to me is the baddest camaro built in years, I wanted it to race and modd the shit out of it and it was about time they gave us a new camaro! Give it some time to weed out the possers who cant handle driving a muscle car every day! They will end up in there family cars agian :D

at least im not alone, there are a few of us out there. ive yet to meet another one in person, which is disappointing

I don't own a 5th gen yet but I will eventually
I've owned a 4th gen since 97 I've never ever had a problem with the ride quality the only thing about 4th gens that gave me grief were lt1 related. Other than that I'm good. Hell I'm happy driving my manual steering roll down windows no ac 3rd gen camaro. Mostly all steel body. Prolly closer to real muscle car than any other car I've owned.

I own a LS3 5th gen...I agree that alot of people picked up this car because it is the car to have! I personally HATE that, and there are alot of those guys on camaro5...it sucks for guys like me that have this car for the reasons I have it! I have always been a camaro guy and this 5th gen to me is the baddest camaro built in years, I wanted it to race and modd the shit out of it and it was about time they gave us a new camaro! Give it some time to weed out the possers who cant handle driving a muscle car every day! They will end up in there family cars agian :D

Why does it bother you? Who cares why anyone else bought their car. You bought yours to enjoy it so, enjoy it. I know I do.

I had a '95 Z28 that went through all the bolt ons, full suspension, 12 bolt, 396 stroker, etc. I really liked the car a lot and it was one of my favorites to own. Now I have a '10 SS and I like this car even more. It's more comfortable, rides a lot better, etc. It better be being 15 years newer though. Sure it'd be nice if the car weighed about 500lbs less, but it is what it is. I love the car and it's nothing some modding won't help with.

The next generation Camaro will be coming out soon on a smaller platform so maybe the 5th gen haters will be happy then.

5th gens remind me of a fat girl with a pretty face,yeah kinda weird.put that hoe on a diet and we have a winner.

5th gens remind me of a fat girl with a pretty face,yeah kinda weird.put that hoe on a diet and we have a winner.

X2

If I wanted a Musclecar the 2nd Gen Camaro is more than able.

I honestly could care less, but I'll ask anyway. If all of the commenting 4th gen owners in this thread hate the 5th gen so much, why are you in this section anyway? :confused:

If all of the commenting 4th gen owners in this thread hate the 5th gen so much, why are you in this section anyway? :confused:

Probably because the topic says "4th Gen vs. 5th Gen", and it's visable from the main page every time it gets bumped to the top (which seems to be quite often).

BTW, not all the commenting 4th gen owners hate the 5th gen. Some of us just like 4th gens better for various personal/subjective reasons. This was covered much earlier in the thread.

I love my 5th gen for different reasons than I loved my 4th gen. I also really liked my LS2 GTO. All three of the cars have had different appeal for me. I also had an 06 Impala SS (FWD, Auto, slow compared to the others....) I do not consider myself a bandwagon guy. I'm one of the early VIN number pre-order guys, that simply loved his 4th Gen Z28 and missed it. I am going through quite the heartache right now, because I have the ability to get the ZL1, but I really love my SS. I waited a year to drive it, now all i want is that 550+ hp ZL1. Hate waisting money, but damn that ZL1 is hard not to love.

I miss mine my 4th Gen so much that I have already found it. I will be buying it back from the owner soon.

I honestly could care less, but I'll ask anyway. If all of the commenting 4th gen owners in this thread hate the 5th gen so much, why are you in this section anyway? :confused:

They're all closet 5th gen lovers. They all watch Transformers every week and have 5th posters all over their walls. :secret2:

man, what was your set up on that 73! thats sweet and might be the nicest one of them all!


that split bumper really sets it off.


The 99 was his nicest!! ;)

The 99 was his nicest!! ;)

actually youre right.

i see what you did.

Do you guys know the hub to hub width difference.

Its a backward step in design what GM did to these 5th gens. Just look the at stealthy, refined look that 4th gen Camaro has and compare to the fat looking, badly proportioned, brick the 5th gen Camaro is. It almost feels like the 4th gen is the new, improved model!

I really think these new Camaros are a sore sight from a design point of view.

even though i own both i feel the 4th gens suck in every category from the front and rear overhang, cab forward design, motor halfway under mile long dashboard, crap hatchback design, funky fiberglass doors, torque arm suspension, i could go on all day. on the other hand the 5th gen is a far more comfortable car to drive, work on or simply enjoy cause it doesnt sound like a maracca when you go over a bumpy road.

even though i own both i feel the 4th gens suck in every category from the front and rear overhang, cab forward design, motor halfway under mile long dashboard, crap hatchback design, funky fiberglass doors, torque arm suspension, i could go on all day. on the other hand the 5th gen is a far more comfortable car to drive, work on or simply enjoy cause it doesnt sound like a maracca when you go over a bumpy road.

Of course they dont sound. They are new! What do you expect? What kind of comparison is that? Give them 5 to 10 years, and lets see how well they sound. BTW, mine is as quiet as my 16,000 mile 2006 Magnum SRT8.

easy fix. Stop calling the z-body charger/mustang a camaro. Did pontiac keep calling their car a grandam when they changed body styles. No, they named it the G6 and the grand prix became the G8. Were they basically drop in replacements for those lines, sure... But they're not the same car.

Might as well make the same thing out of composite material and call it a corvette. Why build up a new name when you can steal an already recognized one.
The G8 didn't replace the Grand Prix. They were both produced in 2008 & 2009 so they are totally different cars.

BTW, not all the commenting 4th gen owners hate the 5th gen. Some of us just like 4th gens better for various personal/subjective reasons. This was covered much earlier in the thread.

I am in this camp, not so much I like the 4th gen more though. I liked the Camaro a lot when it was in the show car and development phase, but the final product doesn't really do it for me. I think the 4th gens time has passed far as it being "new", they are just like how foxes were back in the 90s. A lot of the owners subscribe to the same logic the fox body guys had, it's a cheaper and a lighter car and for the cost of a used 4th gen vs an '11 or '12 _____ you can make the 4th gen run __s. But just like the old foxes compared to the 4th gens in the 90s, the foxes were older, had crappier interiors and so on, same case with the 4th gens now. Also at the same time, just like most those fox body owners compared to guys buying new 4th gens in the 90s, I would say most 4th gen guys now couldn't afford an '11 or '12 ____ to begin with and that's why they have 4th gens. Obviously not the case for every one, but by and large it holds true for most, lot of us who have had 4th gens for 10+ years, obviously not the case. But some kid buying a used 99 Z28 with a 134K miles off craigslist isn't walking in to a Ford or Chevy dealer and buying a new Camaro or '11+ 5.0. It more of a generality than a set rule, but from going to car meets and meeting the people who own 4th gens now, it definitely holds true more often than not. Because on the flip side, you also had guys who just liked the fox body cars over newer stuff and that's what they chose to hold on to and build, I knew a lot of guys like that. I know a bunch of guys like that with 4th gens now, you just have to put the car in to context for the time frame it was made.

I may not own a 5th gen (or a 4th gen yet for that matter) but I have driven both numerous times and I agree that each generation has it's own ups and downs and each is designed to appeal to different types of consumers. Personally for me, one of the reasons I like the 4th gens so much (ls1's at least) is because to me, the front-end of the '98-'02 model year camaros remind me of the split-bumper 2nd gens, which happens to be my favorite looking Camaro body style, and ironically the WS6s styling remind me of the in your face attitude of the bandit edition Trans-Ams which is also a favorite of mine. I have never really cared much for the 1st gens styling-wise, I have always preferred the long front hood, low stance and hatch like rear end dimensions of the 2nd thru 4th gens. To me the 4th gens look almost like an F-18 with tires, The 5th gen just looks too much like a tonka toy in my opinion, especially when I see one in that yellow paint job. As I've mentioned before, I just don't like retro themed cars. C'mon be original! I think the new 5.0 does the best job of looking like a modern new design between both the Challenger and Camaro. I do however like the seats they come with (SS models), the halo rings in the headlights, the center console gauges and the fact that they have a heads up display option. I also like the refined feel of shifting in the manual but would like to see Camaro emblems instead of those gold bowties. The 5th gen is a car I'd cruise around town in to look fresh wheres a 4th gen is what I'd drive up to the red light to piss off the douche in a bmw next to me who thinks he's the shit. I would consider owning a 5th gen someday but it would have to be in black or white. With the 6th gen moving to a supposed much-lighter platform I think it will be a bigger hit with all of us as long as they stop with this retro theme overkill.

even though i own both i feel the 4th gens suck in every category from the front and rear overhang, cab forward design, motor halfway under mile long dashboard, crap hatchback design, funky fiberglass doors, torque arm suspension, i could go on all day. on the other hand the 5th gen is a far more comfortable car to drive, work on or simply enjoy cause it doesnt sound like a maracca when you go over a bumpy road.

Of course they dont sound. They are new! What do you expect? What kind of comparison is that? Give them 5 to 10 years, and lets see how well they sound. BTW, mine is as quiet as my 16,000 mile 2006 Magnum SRT8.

My Z28 rattles and squeaks bad going over the slightest bump or dip. I've really just gotten use to it, but it was refreshing to drive a 5th gen and not have to turn up the radio to drown out the sounds of a poor design. My buddies low mileage '00 T/A is almost as bad but I guess I'm just making stuff up and that's not possible for a bone-stock, garage-kept 40k mile car. You can chalk that up to age, but not the above in bold. Call the 4th gen hold outs in here being an enthusiast, being stubborn, or whatever you want but the 4th gen and LS1/LT1 are old news...

I have owned three 4th gens. Loved them all. But in little ways they drove me crazy. Windows stopped working, headlights stopped opening, the rattles, single exhaust, the windshield over the engine, and the worst thing of all was the distributor under the water pump.

I was not sure i wanted a new car, but after spending a whole day looking at cars I was happy to get out of my WS6. That pushed me over the edge.

I almost bought a Mustang 5.0 (Gasp!). It was the fastest car I drove and really is an awesome car. The Challenger was too big and heavy and too expensive. After driving the SS I knew this was the one for me.

i did not like the size, the weight, the strange interior, and the poor visibility. But I can tell you, you quickly get used to all of it.

This car is comfortable, fast, handles well for being so big and heavy, and turns you into a rock star. I got a few compliments on my 4th Gens, but nothing like this. Man, women of all ages, and especially children (via Transformer movies) all are drawn to this car like moths to a flame.

I think the stock grill is ugly, and the huge gold Chevy emblems are hideous. A Heritage grill and some dental floss cured both problems.

I am going full bolt-on and have upgraded the suspension to tame the wheel-hop and get rid of the understeer. Now my car is at home at the drags and a road course. I plan on both.

I am not knocking the 4th Gens and I can understand the love. But if you ever get a chance to take an extended drive in a 5th Gen, it will be hard to go back. I can drive this car all day and enjoy every minute of it. When I get out I start looking forward to the next drive right away.

The 5th Gen is not perfect, but that is part of it's charm. I owned perfection, a BMW 335i, and after a while perfect gets boring.

Wow...there's alot of hate for the 5th gens. I've owned a 3rd gen, two 4th gens, and now a 5th gen. To me, the 5th gen doesn't feel like a giant. It certainly turns more heads than any of the others ever did and is far more refined. I've enjoyed all of my Camaros, but this new one is certainly my favorite so far and I wouldn't go back to a 4th gen. Love it or hate it, sales don't lie.

Ditto for me too. The new 5th is SO much more refined than its predecessors. This car is badass right off the showroom floor.

A few wise mods can make this a legendary performer. This is my 5th Camaro, and it stands far and above any other F-Bods. The suspension is just right; you'll feel the bumps more, but this thing rides on a rail.

No buyer's remorse here. In fact, I wish I bought one sooner. :nod:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7030/sam0493v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/sam0493v.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Holy Crap! Never seen several pix of 4th and 5th gens side by side....besides driving next to one and having the perspective that it was a 4x4, the 5th gen looks huge! It's quite possibly an aerodynamic disaster compared to a 4th gen. Prob why I will always favor a 4th gen as well....sleek styling coupled with the eviscerating power of a LS motor. I really like my punishing, unrefined 4th. It'll be super sweet when I get my hands on a 4th gen Trans Am...I love it's crazy spoiler!

Bumps, rattles and squeeks? Do more PM. New cars are only new till you drive them away and begin to put wear on them....if you neglect upkeep then they will fall apart and become squeeking and rattling. I bought an old 4th gen to make it like new again as a project. I knew good and well I wasn't buying the best brand new muscle car on the market. Some people will buy the best new thing on the market while others will buy what they personally want and make it what they dream about with their own hands. I guess that's me though I'm building (for a fraction of the cost) performance that would otherwise be unrealistic to afford. Given the chance though if I were inclined to purchase a $30k or better muscle car.....make mine a 'Vette period.

I suggest going and driving one, you might just like it. To say that 5th gen owners here aren't buying what they personally want is ridiculous. There are plenty of people here who have owned far more f-bodies and modded them further than you could imagine. I considered keeping my Z28 but after getting the SS I decided to just sell it. Don't get me wrong, I'll always be a fan of 4th gens, but it just doesn't compare. Enjoy your car and have fun. The 4thgen/ls1 is a hell of a machine. But when you decide to look into a 5th gen, there's no turning back. Oh and I promise not to tell you your not an enthusiast just for buying a new car... period.

I looked at getting a LS1 f-body or a LS2 GTO before dropping the dime on a new Camaro... once I had driven a new SS Camaro... it was over, game set and match

there is no comparing one of these cars to a Ls1 f-body in anything except performance... the '10 Camaros ride like Cadillacs... you don't get beat to death by every bump, you don't feel like you're sitting about 2 inches off the ground... now I won't go around comparing car options to car options because well, in comparing a 10 year old car to a new one, would could EXPECT the new car to have more, superior options... the Ls1 f-bodies were a terrible platform with a kickass drivetrain and that is coming from a GM car nut.. and I still love the 4th gen f-bodies, if you want a pavement pounder, you'll be hard pressed to find a better option

the new Camaro just does more than hit 60 under 5 seconds

weight is definitely an issue(you realize what these cars COULD be if weight was on their side), the visibility sucks, and the side windows are so small its hard using things like an ATM, drive-thru, etc... it definitely has its cons, but i'm happy with my buying decision

As far as noisy rides go, I really don't care. I didn't buy an american muscle car to be quiet and refined lol. I love my fourth gen and after being in a '10 SS, I have not considered trading up. The advantages of the new platform are outweighed for me by the retro styling, weight, and overall "mainstream" appeal of the new SS. I'd honestly be in the market for a used ls3 vette or Z06 (of any year) before a new 'maro. Just not my cup of tea. I like them enough, just not enough to trade up for. I get more compliments in my ride than most of the guys I know running in '10 SSs here do. Main reason has nothing to do with anything other than there are numerous 2010 Camaros on the roads now, and they don't really seem to turn heads the way they did on launch. I like the interiors they have and how they handle, but I guess I'm weird because I actually love the interior on my T/A, it suits me just fine and does what I need it to do and the seats are perfect for my ass :P.

I like the idea of having a NEW lsx powered ride too of course :nod: . But after the nostalgia of retro syling wore off on me, I lost interest. I'd rather dish out the coin for an ls3 conversion than swap platforms at this point. I happen to like loud, raw, rough, and quirky just fine :D. My two cents. Just to be clear, I am not hating on the new SS cars, just giving an opinion. Once the price drops a little more I'd consider one, but not as my first choice.

even though i own both i feel the 4th gens suck in every category from the front and rear overhang, cab forward design, motor halfway under mile long dashboard, crap hatchback design, funky fiberglass doors, torque arm suspension, i could go on all day. on the other hand the 5th gen is a far more comfortable car to drive, work on or simply enjoy cause it doesnt sound like a maracca when you go over a bumpy road.

You are right about 4th gens problems, except I cant stand that 5th gens actually have bigger doors than a fourth gen and in no way is a 5th gen rear suspension superior except for its smooth ride. For it's intended purpose, 5th gen suspension sucks. It's a pony/muscle car NOT a cadillac... And thats why there will be very few 5th gen license plates I will ever end up staring at. They really dont even handle that great, probably because of the weight.....

My G8 handles fantastic, it has the same chassis/suspension as the new Camaro.

My G8 handles fantastic, it has the same chassis/suspension as the new Camaro.

they really dont, not compared to a new stang, or lots and lots of other cars, theyre just too HEAVY as is the g8....

The suspension is setup for the weight of the car so it's not a factor.

It nice to see some of you 4th gen guys coming over to the 5th gen camp after looking into them. It's been pretty lonely as an enthusiast with a 5th gen for the last couple years.

It nice to see some of you 4th gen guys coming over to the 5th gen camp after looking into them. It's been pretty lonely as an enthusiast with a 5th gen for the last couple years.

Yours is exactly what mine would look like if I chose to upgrade :nod:. I've always liked your sig pic.

It nice to see some of you 4th gen guys coming over to the 5th gen camp after looking into them. It's been pretty lonely as an enthusiast with a 5th gen for the last couple years.

Yes it kinda is... not many true enthusiast, allot of first time muscle car buyers :eyes: Thats good and bad, its good because it gets more people intrested in car's! But most of them dont race or are really intrested in pushing the car, seems like more mustanges are going to the racer's. Thats fine because I went to the track sunday and I was the only 5th gen! I suprized a few people when they seen me run a 12.80 then a 12.60, some guy told me he bets my car runs 13.3s cuz thats all these cars have, I shut him up pretty quick! I was neck and neck with a few low 12 sec car's because I am good on the tree, I think I did our 5th gens proud that day :D

Yours is exactly what mine would look like if I chose to upgrade :nod:. I've always liked your sig pic.

Thanks, that's still my favorite pic. It actually made it into the Modern Camaro 2011 calender for June. Here's how the car sits now.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/dkasky84/001.jpg

Yes it kinda is... not many true enthusiast, allot of first time muscle car buyers :eyes: Thats good and bad, its good because it gets more people intrested in car's! But most of them dont race or are really intrested in pushing the car, seems like more mustanges are going to the racer's. Thats fine because I went to the track sunday and I was the only 5th gen! I suprized a few people when they seen me run a 12.80 then a 12.60, some guy told me he bets my car runs 13.3s cuz thats all these cars have, I shut him up pretty quick! I was neck and neck with a few low 12 sec car's because I am good on the tree, I think I did our 5th gens proud that day :D
After I get my car back from Speed Inc. from the axle install we need to hit the track and show these kinds of people what the cars are capable of. I remember last year at byron on a Speed track day I ran about 10 times and never ran slower than a 12.9 with a 12.6 best and people were amazed. That was before I had headers or mufflers on the car so there were a lot of 4th gen and vette guys in disbelief.

For sure... I am down :rock: Ya those are some nice runs man!

right now a lot of the Gen V guys are older... at 26 on "other" gen V sites I seem to be one of the young guns not sporting a 6 pack

and I would say right now the vast majority of Gen V Camaros are NOT getting modded... I ran a G8 GT the other night(headers, cat back, cai, 93 tune, overweight driver mod, lol) and it was a damn close race, the owner then said "you were the 1st '10 in town that has actually given me a run, most of them look retired"... lol

i've only had my car 4 weeks but I'm already getting my wheels in motion....

stock sucks

5th gens are fat, heavy, and slow. It takes entirely too much money in basic suspension to finish the car out (compared to 4th gens). Did I mention they're fat?

On the flipside, they ride nice, have big brakes, and a huge engine bay, so engine work is easy. The front/rear sub is also intelligently designed, easy to drop in sections, and they handle better then the 4th gens ever could (stock vs stock and modded vs modded).

Mostly, weight.

Thanks, that's still my favorite pic. It actually made it into the Modern Camaro 2011 calender for June. Here's how the car sits now.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/dkasky84/001.jpg


After I get my car back from Speed Inc. from the axle install we need to hit the track and show these kinds of people what the cars are capable of. I remember last year at byron on a Speed track day I ran about 10 times and never ran slower than a 12.9 with a 12.6 best and people were amazed. That was before I had headers or mufflers on the car so there were a lot of 4th gen and vette guys in disbelief. Looking real good dude! I'm assuming the exhaust manifolds on those flow pretty good? Nice runs.

5th gens are fat, heavy, and slow. It takes entirely too much money in basic suspension to finish the car out (compared to 4th gens). Did I mention they're fat?

On the flipside, they ride nice, have big brakes, and a huge engine bay, so engine work is easy. The front/rear sub is also intelligently designed, easy to drop in sections, and they handle better then the 4th gens ever could (stock vs stock and modded vs modded).

Mostly, weight.

Yeah the engine bay can make us fourth gen guys jealous :(. They need those big brakes though, I'm pretty sure the added weight over a fourth gen necessitates that. The fourth gens actually had a pretty respectable stopping distance (117 ft. from 60-0 or so iirc). The fifth gens obviously will stop quicker, although it's hard to find 60-0 runs these days since so many are reporting 70mph-0 measurements.

I am used to heavy cars, this car only weighs another 100lbs more! Think about though, no matter what the car weighs it performs... I do agree it does not make a great all out drag car, but a for a street/strip it does not get much better. To simply put headers on a car and run mid 12s is pretty damn good to me, I was going to do a cam but I think tires are next. I should have no problem running 12.30s with 2 mods, cam swap and I am in the 11s! I dont know how much better it gets... or what some of these people expect from a car! I been building cars a long time and it has never been that easy to go that fast. My old school cars took headers, carbs, intakes, cams, head work, gears, stalls, ignition, tires ect. just to run low 12s to mid 11s.... Thats allot of freaking work, forgot to mention fuel system and who else knows :bang: O ya then they break down all the time, and you need half your garage with you LOL!

considering we can put on headers in a matter of about 3-4 hours, well, get back with me 8 hours later on your LS1 doing the same job(this being a guy in his back yard, not a speed shop)

its definitely MUCH easier to work on these cars, we can have our engine out the old fashion way(through the top) before you get the front clip off your LS1 bird or camaro(for an up top engine pull)

This car is actually easier to work on then my 70 olds! Headers on my olds takes 8 hrs, even taking the plugs out... That takes about 10 min!

Dont get me Wrong, I love the look of the new camaro's but they still did not hit the nail on the head, it's too heavy!!!! You can stuff an LS3 in it but when it weighs the same as a pickup truck, there is a problem. They tried to make a nice riding, quiet, sport/luxury car, not a muscle car.

I am used to heavy cars, this car only weighs another 100lbs more! Think about though, no matter what the car weighs it performs... I do agree it does not make a great all out drag car, but a for a street/strip it does not get much better. To simply put headers on a car and run mid 12s is pretty damn good to me, I was going to do a cam but I think tires are next. I should have no problem running 12.30s with 2 mods, cam swap and I am in the 11s! I dont know how much better it gets... or what some of these people expect from a car! I been building cars a long time and it has never been that easy to go that fast. My old school cars took headers, carbs, intakes, cams, head work, gears, stalls, ignition, tires ect. just to run low 12s to mid 11s.... Thats allot of freaking work, forgot to mention fuel system and who else knows :bang: O ya then they break down all the time, and you need half your garage with you LOL!

Did you ever own a 4th gen? Honestly, you cant compare dragstrip performance at all.... I went 13.2 bone stock down to the paper airfilter in my 00 ss, and that was with a 2.281 60', spinning horribly. It went 12.2 with mild bolt ons. and slicks (six speed). Didnt have an UDP, had stock lsd1 intake, stock throttle body..... Would have broken 11's If I had even had it TUNED/ ls6intake. Crappy ass patriot heads/cam got it in the 10's.... should I keep going? Now it's a potato chip though...

considering we can put on headers in a matter of about 3-4 hours, well, get back with me 8 hours later on your LS1 doing the same job(this being a guy in his back yard, not a speed shop)

its definitely MUCH easier to work on these cars, we can have our engine out the old fashion way(through the top) before you get the front clip off your LS1 bird or camaro(for an up top engine pull)

I can drop or install the headers in my 4th gen in about 10 minutes, And do a cam in 20 in my back yard, but I dont play fair.....

lol... I see

Dont get me Wrong, I love the look of the new camaro's but they still did not hit the nail on the head, it's too heavy!!!! You can stuff an LS3 in it but when it weighs the same as a pickup truck, there is a problem. They tried to make a nice riding, quiet, sport/luxury car, not a muscle car.

This comment is ridiculous. It weight 300 lbs. more than the 4th gen and even though that is a lot of weight it's still well within the realm of a modern day sports car. Everyone speaks as though the car weighs 4500 lbs. It weighs as much as a GTR, which is a super car. I agree that the car weighs too much, if it was 3600 lbs. it would be destroying the competition but it doesn't weigh as much as a pick up truck. The bottom line is GM didn't have the resources to make the car any lighter so they added HP and suspension to compensate. It's a fine car for what it is but if you want a true sports car, not a touring car, you need to get the Vette.

As for your 12.2 time. Is that stock weight and suspension??

First off I have been around 4th gens since they came out! I have had 2 4th gen camaro's and my brother still has his 2000 T/A... and your times are NOT avg! Nice runs but that is not some normal thing that every 4th gen does... the 5th gen blows away that car in every sence, and unless you own one you just wont get it! My 12.60 was done with nothing but headers and my home made intake that probly does nothing, no 4th gen I been around has even come close to running that with just headers, mine still ran 13s! There was a bone stock 2000 Z28 at the track that same day running 13.6s and bolt-on T/A running 13.0s...that same day I never ran slower then 12.80. I said it before if you want a full on drag car, this is not it! The 4gen will do that much better... but I will take this car all day for daily driver that I race! This car will have no problems running 11s and driving to work in comfort... put a 150 shot and you have a monster. Bye the way, did I mention how awesome this car looks :D

I really, really personally dislike the way the 5th gens are inside, not so much the ergonomics or the layout or anything of that nature, but the seating position and visibility are very bad, to me. However, that is honestly really the only drawback I personally have about them, everything else I've pretty much grown to like. I would love to drive one no doubt if I could adjust to the visibility and seating position.

I also think people need to get over the whole weight issue too, people make it out to be more than what it really is, it's not like it's competitors are lightweights either.

This comment is ridiculous. It weight 300 lbs. more than the 4th gen and even though that is a lot of weight it's still well within the realm of a modern day sports car. Everyone speaks as though the car weighs 4500 lbs. It weighs as much as a GTR, which is a super car. I agree that the car weighs too much, if it was 3600 lbs. it would be destroying the competition but it doesn't weigh as much as a pick up truck. The bottom line is GM didn't have the resources to make the car any lighter so they added HP and suspension to compensate. It's a fine car for what it is but if you want a true sports car, not a touring car, you need to get the Vette.

As for your 12.2 time. Is that stock weight and suspension??

Ridiculous? Really? Last time I checked the difference is alot more than 300 lbs. I raced my car since day 1, and it was 3612-3622 with me in it and im 210-220 depending. Yes it was stock weight, now its obviously not. Ive been in multiple 5th gens, they just dont feel as fast, both work related and my friends own them too.

I dont get why everyone calls us slow when we are faster than a stock LS1 f-body......

a 6-speed LS2 GTO and a 5th gen Camaro is a DAMN good race, but with equal drivers, the edge is to the 5th gen....

i'll give you the car is a little over weight.... which is why we're bringing a 350whp 6.2L to the dance.... not a 300whp 5.7L...

more weight? ok, we'll give the Camaro more power... true if it weighed 3500lbs it'd be a much quicker car but the REASON the camaro weighs so much is: safety... added braces, more air bags, etc...

you give me two cars to crash: a Ls1 f-body or a 5th gen and I know which one i'm going to take...

Thats what happens when people want to make an excuse why they dont want something, when they really do! I know that because I used to be that way... when the 4gens came out I hated them, then I woke up and relized I was coming up with ways to not like the car, because really I wanted one and just didnt know it :D Thats how I ended up with 2 of them LOL! Same happen with the 5th gen when it first hit the road, I was looking at it comming up with reasons why I did not like it... when really I loved the car but I new I could not buy one at the time! Its like defence to keep you from feeling bad LOL! I hate to say it but its true...

Thats what happens when people want to make an excuse why they dont want something, when they really do! I know that because I used to be that way... when the 4gens came out I hated them, then I woke up and relized I was coming up with ways to not like the car, because really I wanted one and just didnt know it :D Thats how I ended up with 2 of them LOL! Same happen with the 5th gen when it first hit the road, I was looking at it comming up with reasons why I did not like it... when really I loved the car but I new I could not buy one at the time! Its like defence to keep you from feeling bad LOL! I hate to say it but its true...

Not hardly, with what I have in my ss, I could have two of your cars, sorry, its too heavy. You fifth gen guys are hysterical. It realy has become a "me too" car......

Dont get me Wrong, I love the look of the new camaro's but they still did not hit the nail on the head, it's too heavy!!!! You can stuff an LS3 in it but when it weighs the same as a pickup truck, there is a problem. They tried to make a nice riding, quiet, sport/luxury car, not a muscle car.

I can drop or install the headers in my 4th gen in about 10 minutes, And do a cam in 20 in my back yard, but I dont play fair.....

What pick up truck weighs under 4k lbs?

Did my headers on the TA in 4 hours, first try with no experience. :)

Not hardly, with what I have in my ss, I could have two of your cars, sorry, its too heavy. You fifth gen guys are hysterical. It realy has become a "me too" car......

You fail to realize that the Camaro is so much better than 2 f-body cars. The G8 is the best car I ever owned, and it's based on the same chassis and powertrain as the Camaro. No other car comes close in ride, handling, comfort and quality, plus it has the power to back it up.

Ridiculous? Really? Last time I checked the difference is alot more than 300 lbs. I raced my car since day 1, and it was 3612-3622 with me in it and im 210-220 depending. Yes it was stock weight, now its obviously not. Ive been in multiple 5th gens, they just dont feel as fast, both work related and my friends own them too.
I know going fast isn't the only reason you bought your car. If you say it is, I say you're full of it since you can't drive fast all the time! I didn't buy my car to go fast, I bought it because it does everything else so well, plus it's faster than most cars out there in the same price range.

you know my brother made a good point tonight that I haven't mentioned in this topic: the 6-speed auto.. I know LS1 guys wish they had that, for one, imagine the improvement of gas milegae they'd get on the highway... and two you get basically 4 pulling gears out of an automatic, instead of 3 and an overdrive(have pretty much 2 ODs with the 6L80e)...

this is 99% stock with a K&N filter out of a L99, which is the "slower" of the 5th gens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV_5bVYueOw
(on a side note, soon after shooting that video, I discovered how to make my speedometer show up digitally on the DIC, lol)
run starts at 5.5 seconds, hit 100 at the 17 seconds mark... 12 seconds to 100 on a non-prepped surface... and its pretty much a 0-100 pull, I short shifted the piss out of the last shift, lol... was still getting used to the tap shift


a stock 4l60E for comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uce9wGMn4UQ

to 100 its almost a 2 second difference(and the LS1 didn't even hit 100)...... i'm no "internet racer" by any means, its just hard to find a stock LS1 to race, lol... I won't deny that, LS1 f-bodies are some mean ass cars... but we aren't "slow" by any means... because i'll gladly line up with a t-56 Ls1, not just a 4l60e car

Not hardly, with what I have in my ss, I could have two of your cars, sorry, its too heavy. You fifth gen guys are hysterical. It realy has become a "me too" car......

It really has become a me too car, there everywhere...I know a few guys myself that aren't even enthusiasts that have no intentions on even changing out the air filter that now own a fifth gen because there cool lol. Now there's nothing wrong w/ that its just not me..As for the comparison between the two, the 5th is by far the better overall car. I could afford one but for the 5 miles a day i commute I don't want the payment and the difference in performance isn't enough to make the change...I rather put the money into my $3500 Z28 that's already paid off.

The 5th gen owners you are talking with on this board are enthusiasts!!!! Most people that are not mostly end up with a v6 car, just like the thousands of 4th gens I see old ladys and girls driving around here! Its a massed produced car... it happens

We have a L99 car in the family-its slow as hell. Convert to LS3 or just a tune makes a big difference.

The 5th gen is a much superior car over a very old design. Only thing I don't like is visibility when driving it.

Unlike the older car it not a great car to drag race,feels slow hence a lot of disappointment from 4th gen owners.

The car is selling like hotcakes though and thats what counts. The 4th gen despite being a better peformance car than the Mustang can never brag about that

Yes, the 5th gen is a heavier car, but some of you 4th gen fanboys exaggerate it too much. The 5th gen is not a pickup truck. The weight difference from the 4th gen is about 300 pounds. The 5th gen does have it's downfalls. Visibility isn't great but it's easy to adjust to quickly after driving a little while. It's definitely not fit to be a drag car. That's about the only category I can see where I would pick a 4th gen over 5th.

We all know the reason you guys are over in the 5th gen section anyway is because you secretly want one. But instead you just want to come up with reasons to hate it. Get over yourself.

Getting an LS1 f-body is so original. I don't see those anywhere...

Read up on the ZL1-numbers are out. Less weight too!!!

http://www.camaro5.com/

The 5th gen owners you are talking with on this board are enthusiasts!!!! Most people that are not mostly end up with a v6 car, just like the thousands of 4th gens I see old ladys and girls driving around here! Its a massed produced car... it happens

that is the reason I am on this site... MOST of the Gen V sites are guys arguing over which stripe set looks the best, lol

I got love for the 4th gen... my brother has a '99 WS6 TA that I absolutely want none of... he is a member on this site but rarely posts... I wanted a LS1 bird so bad back when I couldn't afford one, i'm a little older now, actually have some income and was like everyone here when the new Camaro came out... against it, it took me driving about 3 different new Camaros before they finally grew on me...

i've already pointed out the flaws of bad visibility and low roofline and for some people, that might be a deal breaker... but a 4th gen isn't known for its visibility and at 6' the roofline isn't an issue for me, now the side windows being as small as they are can be, especially at an ATM

someone said something about the L99s being sluggish... from a roll, they especially can be in their stock form... with a tune: whole new animal, the transmission tune is where 95% of the gains are to be found in getting a L99 tuned, the 10-15whp is nice but the gains of removing torque management, the shift points, etc. in the transmission are the reason the car is MUCH quicker with a tune than stock, you get better gains out of a tuned L99 than you do a tuned LS3(as far as on the drag strip, maybe not in whp, but unless you are building a dyno queen, who cares)... its also nice to ditch DOD and AFM with a tuned L99, especially for the guys with an exhaust on their L99, the AFM(Active Fuel Management) makes your aftermarket exhaust sound like shit unless it has j-pipes(like the solo exhaust)... A6s with a tune and a CAI have gone 12.60s, with a stall and headers... they'll run 12.20-12.30s... with skinnies and some sticky tires, 11s isn't out of the question, yes 5.0 guys, bolt-on only

where the LS1 gains on the 5th gen is AFTER high 11s... these cars are not designed to be drag cars, you can easily get high 11s out of them.... things get a lot harder after that... for most people, that is more than enough

from what I am seeing right now, MOST Gen Vs won't see high 11s/low 12s bolt-on only... not because they can't because most owners don't care

when the cars get a little older and more enthusiast start buying them to build, you'll see some things change... there is already starting to be more and more nitrous cars running mid 10s with stock weight

Yes, the 5th gen is a heavier car, but some of you 4th gen fanboys exaggerate it too much. The 5th gen is not a pickup truck. The weight difference from the 4th gen is about 300 pounds. The 5th gen does have it's downfalls. Visibility isn't great but it's easy to adjust to quickly after driving a little while. It's definitely not fit to be a drag car. That's about the only category I can see where I would pick a 4th gen over 5th.

We all know the reason you guys are over in the 5th gen section anyway is because you secretly want one. But instead you just want to come up with reasons to hate it. Get over yourself.

Getting an LS1 f-body is so original. I don't see those anywhere...


300lbs * 2 is more like it, 5th gens are not 3600-3700 lbs. And the only reason im in this swction, is when you scroll down the maun forum page, it comes up 4th gen vs 5th gen.... So I ducked in and then got rather amused at you guys!

No, I truely do not want your precious camaro's, I would much rather have a c6 zo6 if I were to sell my SS. That is a car that "handles great". Doesnt weigh alot, and looks stunning. oh, and its got about 2+ seconds on you in the 1/4.... Bone stock.

oh and used with 45,000 miles it still cost about $15,000 more not to mention doubling the insurance cost, maintenance costs, etc.



.....you forgot those points in your rant

"before i'd buy your precious C6 zo6, i'd have a $250,000 Ferrari 458"... that's about the same comparison



not to mention that the reason I chose this car over a used C6 is because a vette is a great car: so long at it isn't your primary car... no carrying capacity with them, can only carry one other person... that is great if its a car you carry out on Saturday night... and that is about it

for the people who have one as a weekend warrior, they are awesome cars... for everyone else, its a pretty terrible buy

don't worry, I feel the same way about a Mazda Miata, a Honda S2000, or any 2-seater, not just a vette thing...

300lbs * 2 is more like it, 5th gens are not 3600-3700 lbs. And the only reason im in this swction, is when you scroll down the maun forum page, it comes up 4th gen vs 5th gen.... So I ducked in and then got rather amused at you guys!

No, I truely do not want your precious camaro's, I would much rather have a c6 zo6 if I were to sell my SS. That is a car that "handles great". Doesnt weigh alot, and looks stunning. oh, and its got about 2+ seconds on you in the 1/4.... Bone stock.

The 5th gen cars weigh in around 3800. Yes, that's heavy, we know that. Never heard of a factory 4th gen weighing in at 3200, more like just under 3500.

I wouldn't mind a C6Z myself, but like mentioned by Bama, that is at least a $45k car for a nice one with lower miles. I spent just over $30k on my car out the door.

You mentioned you could have two 5th gens for the kind of money you've put into your 4th gen? Now that is amusing...:eyes:

300lbs * 2 is more like it, 5th gens are not 3600-3700 lbs. And the only reason im in this swction, is when you scroll down the maun forum page, it comes up 4th gen vs 5th gen.... So I ducked in and then got rather amused at you guys!

No, I truely do not want your precious camaro's, I would much rather have a c6 zo6 if I were to sell my SS. That is a car that "handles great". Doesnt weigh alot, and looks stunning. oh, and its got about 2+ seconds on you in the 1/4.... Bone stock.

Agreed, except I dont care for Vettes either, LOL!!!

Its funny just how hard these 5th gen guys try to force the issue. I find funny also what lurks in their mind of someone who says that the ones who don't like them is because we can not afford it....that's really the argument a kindergarten kid would come up with.

There are guys here who have invested way north of $50,000 in their 4th gens., please do not tell me those guys or me cannot afford your car.... Believe me I could, I chose not to. In fact I wouldn't change my TA for ANY 5th gen! or a Vette... (*gasp*!, how can that be??!!). Well, it is.

If your frustrated because everyone and their sister has one do not despair...with time the 5th will no longer be the flavor of the month. Most will finally end in the hands of real car enthusiasts, not with idiots who want to look cool. (Im not implying any of guys here to be these idiots).

300lbs * 2 is more like it, 5th gens are not 3600-3700 lbs. And the only reason im in this swction, is when you scroll down the maun forum page, it comes up 4th gen vs 5th gen.... So I ducked in and then got rather amused at you guys!

No, I truely do not want your precious camaro's, I would much rather have a c6 zo6 if I were to sell my SS. That is a car that "handles great". Doesnt weigh alot, and looks stunning. oh, and its got about 2+ seconds on you in the 1/4.... Bone stock.
You forgot to mention that the Corvette costs a lot more, so it should be a better car. The Camaro and the G8 are a lot of car for what they cost.

Ok I stirred this subject up on the 35th SSLE forum a few days ago..
I own both and the 4th Gen feels faster...I know it is not...


2011 Vert to 2002 LE Vert 505 lbs-huge weight difference...huge..
2011 Vert 3.27 rear vs 2002 Vert 3.73
2011 Vert 400 hp vs 2002 Vert 350 hp
Forget about 20" vs 17" wheels
One day Ill run the wife... Yea, that will happen...

Or better yet - anyone in Houston-Cypress TX wanna try?
I'll bring which ever car for comparison..20mph roll..

The 5th gen cars weigh in around 3800. Yes, that's heavy, we know that. Never heard of a factory 4th gen weighing in at 3200, more like just under 3500.

I wouldn't mind a C6Z myself, but like mentioned by Bama, that is at least a $45k car for a nice one with lower miles. I spent just over $30k on my car out the door.

You mentioned you could have two 5th gens for the kind of money you've put into your 4th gen? Now that is amusing...:eyes:

My car was loaded, SS, leather, 12 disc, traction control, t-tops, etc and weighed an honest 3400+/- 10 lbs with the spare AND jack. A stripped down z28, cloth, roll up windows, etc weighs around 3300 flat. My friends 2010 Camaro is 3920. So thats 520 lbs more than my car, and 620 lbs more than a stripper z28. BIG FREAKING DIFFERENCE. Again, these are actual numbers, not guesstimates. My car now weighs 2840, It's scaled at every race.

Why is that amusing? Because it would wipe the floor with your Camaro??? It's a race car, look under the hood. The heads alone were $3700, it revs to 8000 rpm, the parts on it are the best you can get. The rear was $4400, built trans, bulletproof belhousing, Coilovers on all four corners, custom chrome moly suspension, not some crap you buy off the shelf. It's also a little 366 that puts down 540 rwhp n/a on a mustang dyno..... You gotta pay to play, I got serious with this car 5 years ago so Im married to it, it's not worth buying a vette, and losing all the parts I cant transfer. Maybe if it bores me i'll sell it, but not for a fifth gen, or two of them for that matter... :engarde::punch:

Agreed, except I dont care for Vettes either, LOL!!!

Its funny just how hard these 5th gen guys try to force the issue. I find funny also what lurks in their mind of someone who says that the ones who don't like them is because we can not afford it....that's really the argument a kindergarten kid would come up with.

There are guys here who have invested way north of $50,000 in their 4th gens., please do not tell me those guys or me cannot afford your car.... Believe me I could, I chose not to. In fact I wouldn't change my TA for ANY 5th gen! or a Vette... (*gasp*!, how can that be??!!). Well, it is.

If your frustrated because everyone and their sister has one do not despair...with time the 5th will no longer be the flavor of the month. Most will finally end in the hands of real car enthusiasts, not with idiots who want to look cool. (Im not implying any of guys here to be these idiots).

AMEN, but I still like c6 zo6's! ;):D

the 5th gen owners you are talking with on this board are enthusiasts!!!! Most people that are not mostly end up with a v6 car, just like the thousands of 4th gens i see old ladys and girls driving around here! Its a massed produced car... It happens

+1000000000. The only people worse then the chicks and old folks are the V6 enthusiasts.

The 5th gen cars weigh in around 3800. Yes, that's heavy, we know that. Never heard of a factory 4th gen weighing in at 3200, more like just under 3500.

I wouldn't mind a C6Z myself, but like mentioned by Bama, that is at least a $45k car for a nice one with lower miles. I spent just over $30k on my car out the door.

You mentioned you could have two 5th gens for the kind of money you've put into your 4th gen? Now that is amusing...:eyes:

The 6 sp cars weigh it at around 3850 stock. Mine was 3895 with 1/4 tank of gas, and its the lighter of the two twims (1ss). Add 60 pounds for the auto cars, and 30 pounds for the 2ss vs the 1ss. It's down to around 3580 empty now though, looking to get it to 3500 :D

Nice. That 429 is gonna be sick. I'm following your build thread over on Camaro5. Seems like everybody goes with some kind of FI so it's nice to see somebody building N/A and going big.

On the 4th gen vs. 5th gen topic, The only time I would prefer a 4th gen is at the drag strip. I'm not at the drag strip every weekend so that doesn't concern me at all to be honest. My car is a DD so it probably won't see anything more than bolt-ons, suspension work, and maybe a decent cam. Having owned both and been in several built 4th gens, I just find it far more enjoyable to drive.

When the C7 is released I'm hoping prices will drop on the C6Z. I would like to have one sitting with the SS in the next 3 years or so. I can definitely agree with you that a C6Z is one badass machine all around.

Oh and this is kind of off topic and a side rant, but I wish the whole connection with Bumblebee and Transformers would just dissapear. That connection is kind of irritating, no matter how much it helped with sales.

The 5th gen owners you are talking with on this board are enthusiasts!!!! Most people that are not mostly end up with a v6 car, just like the thousands of 4th gens I see old ladys and girls driving around here! Its a massed produced car... it happens

If that's directed towards me I never said you guys weren't im just saying I see mostly V8 models around(literally almost one at every other light) and see very few locals in here and the NJ boards...the few guys i know couldn't even tell you what motor was in the car..Its nice to have a new car and Id take one in a heartbeat but like I said performance wise I don't see any reason to run out and replace the current car that besides mods doesn't cost me a dime...but like everything else to each his own...

Nice. That 429 is gonna be sick. I'm following your build thread over on Camaro5. Seems like everybody goes with some kind of FI so it's nice to see somebody building N/A and going big.

On the 4th gen vs. 5th gen topic, The only time I would prefer a 4th gen is at the drag strip. I'm not at the drag strip every weekend so that doesn't concern me at all to be honest. My car is a DD so it probably won't see anything more than bolt-ons, suspension work, and maybe a decent cam. Having owned both and been in several built 4th gens, I just find it far more enjoyable to drive.

When the C7 is released I'm hoping prices will drop on the C6Z. I would like to have one sitting with the SS in the next 3 years or so. I can definitely agree with you that a C6Z is one badass machine all around.

Oh and this is kind of off topic and a side rant, but I wish the whole connection with Bumblebee and Transformers would just dissapear. That connection is kind of irritating, no matter how much it helped with sales.
Big picture man, any draw is good. These cars need to sell to stay alive. 225K units in 2 years is awesome and hope it continues. I'm an old schooler and still have a nice 93 fox coupe in the garage because the modular thing doesn't appeal to me but after having about 25 camaro's I like this one the best.

Yes, the 5th gen is a heavier car, but some of you 4th gen fanboys exaggerate it too much. The 5th gen is not a pickup truck. The weight difference from the 4th gen is about 300 pounds. The 5th gen does have it's downfalls. Visibility isn't great but it's easy to adjust to quickly after driving a little while. It's definitely not fit to be a drag car. That's about the only category I can see where I would pick a 4th gen over 5th.

We all know the reason you guys are over in the 5th gen section anyway is because you secretly want one. But instead you just want to come up with reasons to hate it. Get over yourself.

Getting an LS1 f-body is so original. I don't see those anywhere...
fyi the curb weight on my 1sc z28 in sig is 3380. 3450 is the base curb weight for ls1 f-bodies. Ws6 TA's were 3500.

+1000000000. The only people worse then the chicks and old folks are the V6 enthusiasts.

HAHA, Team LLT!!! What a joke.

The 6 sp cars weigh it at around 3850 stock. Mine was 3895 with 1/4 tank of gas, and its the lighter of the two twims (1ss). Add 60 pounds for the auto cars, and 30 pounds for the 2ss vs the 1ss. It's down to around 3580 empty now though, looking to get it to 3500 :D

Dang...what all did you remove to get it down to 3580?

Less then you'd think.

Less then you'd think.

Come on man, spill the beans. I'm looking into getting rid of the curtain and side airbags. I'm hoping to drop at least 60 lbs.

Thats what happens when people want to make an excuse why they dont want something, when they really do! I know that because I used to be that way... when the 4gens came out I hated them, then I woke up and relized I was coming up with ways to not like the car, because really I wanted one and just didnt know it :D Thats how I ended up with 2 of them LOL! Same happen with the 5th gen when it first hit the road, I was looking at it comming up with reasons why I did not like it... when really I loved the car but I new I could not buy one at the time! Its like defence to keep you from feeling bad LOL! I hate to say it but its true...No, it really is not true. Sorry.

Not hardly, with what I have in my ss, I could have two of your cars, sorry, its too heavy. You fifth gen guys are hysterical. It realy has become a "me too" car...... That is more true than the above statement, where dude is "projecting".

you know my brother made a good point tonight that I haven't mentioned in this topic: the 6-speed auto.. I know LS1 guys wish they had that, for one, imagine the improvement of gas milegae they'd get on the highway... and two you get basically 4 pulling gears out of an automatic, instead of 3 and an overdrive(have pretty much 2 ODs with the 6L80e)...

this is 99% stock with a K&N filter out of a L99, which is the "slower" of the 5th gens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV_5bVYueOw
(on a side note, soon after shooting that video, I discovered how to make my speedometer show up digitally on the DIC, lol)
run starts at 5.5 seconds, hit 100 at the 17 seconds mark... 12 seconds to 100 on a non-prepped surface... and its pretty much a 0-100 pull, I short shifted the piss out of the last shift, lol... was still getting used to the tap shift


a stock 4l60E for comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uce9wGMn4UQ

to 100 its almost a 2 second difference(and the LS1 didn't even hit 100)...... i'm no "internet racer" by any means, its just hard to find a stock LS1 to race, lol... I won't deny that, LS1 f-bodies are some mean ass cars... but we aren't "slow" by any means... because i'll gladly line up with a t-56 Ls1, not just a 4l60e car

The ol' ls1 looks pretty damn good on that vid to me? I guess I don't see what you see :confused:



***Bottom line is guys that the fifth gen was a real let down for a lot of us. It is nice, but it should be quicker, and it sure should be lighter (one in the same). Sure, it has more safety and airbags, but that's not what I'm looking for when I'm buying performance imo, and IF I wanted a good ride I'd buy a caddy lol. The powerplant is great, the suspension does what a decent irs should, the weight is about right keeping in mind the new safety regs, but when you put all that together...I'd keep my fourth gen, and I did :nod:. New isn't always better, guys on this board of all people should know that and most of them do. It's not about cost (after all what's cost, guts and a pen?), it's about what you want. I was all geared up to buy one of these bad boys but changed my mind when I saw the old lady down the hall with one :( lol.

I could go ahead and say that "that's what happens when someone drops a whack of cashola on a car, they stand by it till the end..." But that would be similar to the post earlier stating that all us fourth gen guys actually want a fifth gen :eyes:.

Don't get me all wrong, they are decent cars and pretty impressive in their own right. But they aint what they should have been imo, whereas the coyote 5.0 is! When a 12 year old ls1 fourth gen can damn near run door to door on the street, there is a slight problem imo. Sure they're faster than a fourth gen, but not near fast enough to compel.

*end rant\*

Less then you'd think.
Oh my bad, didnt know it was top secret:eyes:

Oh my bad, didnt think it was top secret:eyes:

LMAO! Exactly what I was thinkin' ;)

fyi the curb weight on my 1sc z28 in sig is 3380. 3450 is the base curb weight for ls1 f-bodies. Ws6 TA's were 3500.

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking LT1 F-body and got mixed up. My 4th gen was heavier than you guys to begin with, haha.

There's a little bit of weight to be lost just by ditching the factory exhaust, massive 20's, Brembos, and some other misc. stuff. I'll try to dig up some threads later over the subject. It's never going to be as light as a 4th gen. Yeah it's a pig. I wish it were lighter too, 3500 pounds would have been nice and not too much to ask, but the car really is fun and enjoyable to drive even with it's size.

Oh my bad, didnt know it was top secret:eyes:

I didn't especially care to type it out.

-6 Airbags (Side Curtain, Seats, dash) (-33 pounds)
Dash removed, lightened, tubular steel loop cut off of cross brace, cross brace lightened, sound deadening removed from backside of FW (-30 lbs)
Removed rear belts and brackets, and sheet metal holding bracket mounts (-20 pounds)
Weld RT-S & tires (-85 pounds)
Headers/X/Dumps at axle for weight (-60 pounds)
Tubular front crash support (-19 pounds)
Tubular rear crash support (-16 pounds)
!Evap (9.7 pounds, not including evap line, which I left in)
!A/C (85 pounds)
!Junk Block Oil Cooler/Heater, unnecessary (-7 pounds)
Lightweight Billet clutch (-12 pounds)
Sound deadening removed from under seats, backseats, trunk, including hood/trunk liner (-8 pounds)
Braille battery (-24 pounds)
Wipers/Wiper Motors (9 pounds)
Windshield Washer Tank + Pump and lines (4 pounds)


422 pounds so far. I've got another 20 pounds in coilovers, and 20 more in lightweight brakes, but those are extremely expensive per pound, so may be a while. Looking inside the car, you cannot tell anything has been removed.

Add an additional 52 pounds for track days, with removal of pass. seat and back seat. They're normally in the car, so I dont count them. That's 474 pounds total. I also suppose I could remove more material behind the dash (there's 300 pounds of shit there on a stock car), but I'm satisfied with what I got out of it for not too much work, given that it is still a very comfortable car, and I enjoy the radio, heater, defroster, etc

I didn't especially care to type it out.

-6 Airbags (Side Curtain, Seats, dash) (-33 pounds)
Dash removed, lightened, tubular steel loop cut off of cross brace, cross brace lightened, sound deadening removed from backside of FW (-30 lbs)
Removed rear belts and brackets, and sheet metal holding bracket mounts (-20 pounds)
Weld RT-S & tires (-85 pounds)
Headers/X/Dumps at axle for weight (-60 pounds)
Tubular front crash support (-19 pounds)
Tubular rear crash support (-16 pounds)
!Evap (9.7 pounds, not including evap line, which I left in)
!A/C (85 pounds)
!Junk Block Oil Cooler/Heater, unnecessary (-7 pounds)
Lightweight Billet clutch (-12 pounds)
Sound deadening removed from under seats, backseats, trunk, including hood/trunk liner (-8 pounds)
Braille battery (-24 pounds)
Wipers/Wiper Motors (9 pounds)
Windshield Washer Tank + Pump and lines (4 pounds)


422 pounds so far. I've got another 20 pounds in coilovers, and 20 more in lightweight brakes, but those are extremely expensive per pound, so may be a while. Looking inside the car, you cannot tell anything has been removed.

Add an additional 52 pounds for track days, with removal of pass. seat and back seat. They're normally in the car, so I dont count them. That's 474 pounds total. I also suppose I could remove more material behind the dash (there's 300 pounds of shit there on a stock car), but I'm satisfied with what I got out of it for not too much work, given that it is still a very comfortable car, and I enjoy the radio, heater, defroster, etc

Thanks for postin up that info! Its nice to see that you can take that much weight out of the car yet keep it functional for the most part. It would be awsome if gm produced a 5th gen stripper, I would eventually have to have one lol!

Diet coke you happy with that battery?

Cheapest weight you can buy. It starts the car fine from the back, so I guess that means it's good :p

No, it really is not true. Sorry.

That is more true than the above statement, where dude is "projecting".



The ol' ls1 looks pretty damn good on that vid to me? I guess I don't see what you see :confused:



***Bottom line is guys that the fifth gen was a real let down for a lot of us. It is nice, but it should be quicker, and it sure should be lighter (one in the same). Sure, it has more safety and airbags, but that's not what I'm looking for when I'm buying performance imo, and IF I wanted a good ride I'd buy a caddy lol. The powerplant is great, the suspension does what a decent irs should, the weight is about right keeping in mind the new safety regs, but when you put all that together...I'd keep my fourth gen, and I did :nod:. New isn't always better, guys on this board of all people should know that and most of them do. It's not about cost (after all what's cost, guts and a pen?), it's about what you want. I was all geared up to buy one of these bad boys but changed my mind when I saw the old lady down the hall with one :( lol.

I could go ahead and say that "that's what happens when someone drops a whack of cashola on a car, they stand by it till the end..." But that would be similar to the post earlier stating that all us fourth gen guys actually want a fifth gen :eyes:.

Don't get me all wrong, they are decent cars and pretty impressive in their own right. But they aint what they should have been imo, whereas the coyote 5.0 is! When a 12 year old ls1 fourth gen can damn near run door to door on the street, there is a slight problem imo. Sure they're faster than a fourth gen, but not near fast enough to compel.

*end rant\*



what I was getting at is the 5th gens are faster than the LS1s stock for stock... most people accept that... however, to hear it told on this board, the 5th gens are overweight and couldn't accelerate out of a wet paper bag...

no one is arguing that they weigh 3800-3900lbs... we know that, doesn't change the fact they hit 60 in under 5 seconds and commonly run in the 12s(when properly driven)... I mean i'm not going to swear by the 12.58(fastest a stock one has gone) or the couple that have ran 12.60s stock... but the fact is, they aren't "slow" from the factory.... and with bolt-ons, 11s isn't out of the question, which isn't going to break any records but GM could have done much worse

Like I said before they wanted vette performance for a camaro price! What we got was a very good daily driving car, great handling and comfort, and the fastest car you can get from GM with the exception of a vette or caddy V... but GM failed :eyes: All that matters is that you are happy with you have, and I know I am!

No one said GM failed guys, least I didn't catch it. Of course, "be happy with what you have" is always a good motto.

and with bolt-ons, 11s isn't out of the question

same with the 4th gen... I think thats why alot of people are bitter over the 5th gen. They got more power but dont perform much better at the track. GM focused and giving a better ride, comfort, lots of options...etc. Alot guys on this site dont care about that shit... they want all out performance. A 5th gen stripper would cure this problem!! I like the car, just think its silly they built a 2 door car on a 4 door platform. From that standpoint the g8 is much more appealing to me for an all around car.

Ya a G8 is cool if you want a 4 door! Let me tell you this... if this new camaro was not everything it is right now, I would not have a camaro! Coming from 2 4th gens and a C5 vette ( thats were my screen name is from ) if this 5th gen was anything like the 4th gen I would have never sold my old car! I did like my 4th gen but the damn things were rattel traps, everything felt loose, ride was to harsh after I put some suspension on mine, and the thing I hated the most was not having a hood view! My vette was sooo much nicer but insurance was killing me. I wanted something I can drive everyday and still run fast at the track. I dont need to break records or run 9s... point is this car feels like my vette did as far as quality, 4th gens cant even touch the feel of this car, thats fact! Once the price comes down and 5 years go by, all you guys that drive your 4th gens daily will be selling your shit and guess what you will be looking at. As far as a striped out version, that will start happening when these things get old, no one wants to chop up a 30k+ car to race, when yes you could just do that to a 4th gen.

Ya a G8 is cool if you want a 4 door! Let me tell you this... if this new camaro was not everything it is right now, I would not have a camaro! Coming from 2 4th gens and a C5 vette ( thats were my screen name is from ) if this 5th gen was anything like the 4th gen I would have never sold my old car! I did like my 4th gen but the damn things were rattel traps, everything felt loose, ride was to harsh after I put some suspension on mine, and the thing I hated the most was not having a hood view! My vette was sooo much nicer but insurance was killing me. I wanted something I can drive everyday and still run fast at the track. I dont need to break records or run 9s... point is this car feels like my vette did as far as quality, 4th gens cant even touch the feel of this car, thats fact! Once the price comes down and 5 years go by, all you guys that drive your 4th gens daily will be selling your shit and guess what you will be looking at. As far as a striped out version, that will start happening when these things get old, no one wants to chop up a 30k+ car to race, when yes you could just do that to a 4th gen.

5.0 coyote, final answer! Lol, not me but just sayin' :jest:

PS. If the ride is too harsh, you aren't in the same market as I am, or a lot of other guys for that matter.

same with the 4th gen... I think thats why alot of people are bitter over the 5th gen. They got more power but dont perform much better at the track. GM focused and giving a better ride, comfort, lots of options...etc. Alot guys on this site dont care about that shit... they want all out performance. A 5th gen stripper would cure this problem!! I like the car, just think its silly they built a 2 door car on a 4 door platform. From that standpoint the g8 is much more appealing to me for an all around car.

Cam swap and you are in the 11s...(4th gen that is.):engarde:

5.0 coyote, final answer! Lol, not me but just sayin' :jest:

PS. If the ride is too harsh, you aren't in the same market as I am, or a lot of other guys for that matter.

Are you kidding me dude, not in the same market... ever drive a vette, not a harsh ride but handles like a mofo! Harsh and sports car handling does not mean two in the same, spend some time in a 5th gen or vette and you will see what I mean.

Chad very nice T/A by the way :cheers: Ya I will be in the low 11s when I cam it :thumb:

Ya a G8 is cool if you want a 4 door! Let me tell you this... if this new camaro was not everything it is right now, I would not have a camaro! Coming from 2 4th gens and a C5 vette ( thats were my screen name is from ) if this 5th gen was anything like the 4th gen I would have never sold my old car! I did like my 4th gen but the damn things were rattel traps, everything felt loose, ride was to harsh after I put some suspension on mine, and the thing I hated the most was not having a hood view! My vette was sooo much nicer but insurance was killing me. I wanted something I can drive everyday and still run fast at the track. I dont need to break records or run 9s... point is this car feels like my vette did as far as quality, 4th gens cant even touch the feel of this car, thats fact! Once the price comes down and 5 years go by, all you guys that drive your 4th gens daily will be selling your shit and guess what you will be looking at. As far as a striped out version, that will start happening when these things get old, no one wants to chop up a 30k+ car to race, when yes you could just do that to a 4th gen.

Nope some of us wont go buy one, because it still starts out at 3900 lbs, too much to remove to make it worth while.

Ya I hope so, trust me I don't want it to get to popular at the track anyway! It's not everyone's cup of tea, I definitely would not buy a G8 but I respect the guys that own them and want to run fast, instead of telling all the reasons I would never buy that car! I think it would be awesome to see one pulling 10s at the track, same reason I want to get my car there one day! It's not going to be a normal thing to see 10 sec 5 th gens rolling around but when you do it's gonna be cool to see! There are a few on camaro5 that are just getting together and they are bad ass!

Cam swap and you are in the 11s...(4th gen that is.):engarde:

I have to disagree... Mike G, blacksilvr02ss, chrs1313, all have been 11's with bolton only ls1's.

I don't want her, you can have her, she's to fat for me. LOL at the ricer comments, "its to heavy" or "I can take that coin and build a faster 4th gen". Really ? Its a great car and the 4th gen die hard's wouldn't like it no matter what it weighted, ran or cost.
Folks miss out on things in life because they are closed minded and there's a load of that in this thread. Like I said, I had a wonderful cam only mid 11 2000 Z28 and liked it but not loved because it was all compromise. From the floorpans, single exhaust, cowl over the engine, monza torque arm, weak ass rear differential, crap interior, seating position. Only redeeming quality was the LSX motor it had and the 6 speed.
Face it, the 4th gen doesn't even hold a candle to the 5th gen.

Its funny I just found this thread.

I was sitting behind a 5th gen today at a stop light, and I couldnt believe how much bigger the car was then my SS. My car is lowered a good deal, but mine was sitting atleast 6" lower then his. I felt like my head was parallel with his tail lights.

that being said, I have never really liked them. 4th gens have the "aggressive" factor to them and look much more intimidating IMO. The 5th gens are nice, but you will never see me in one. They are too big and I just still cant take them serious.

I had a guy a few months ago pull up next to me at a stop light in a bolt on 5th gen ss. I was just checking out his car minding my own business and he looked over and started laughing shaking his head. This is when I knew what was about to happen, would scar him. Light turned green, he dropped the hammer. I rolled out and then followed his lead and literally went by him like he was standing still. Shut down with nearly a bus length on him. After, I was the one looking at him laughing and he wouldnt even look over.

I don't want her, you can have her, she's to fat for me. LOL at the ricer comments, "its to heavy" or "I can take that coin and build a faster 4th gen". Really ? Its a great car and the 4th gen die hard's wouldn't like it no matter what it weighted, ran or cost.
Folks miss out on things in life because they are closed minded and there's a load of that in this thread. Like I said, I had a wonderful cam only mid 11 2000 Z28 and liked it but not loved because it was all compromise. From the floorpans, single exhaust, cowl over the engine, monza torque arm, weak ass rear differential, crap interior, seating position. Only redeeming quality was the LSX motor it had and the 6 speed.
Face it, the 4th gen doesn't even hold a candle to the 5th gen.

Really? Does basically the same at a fraction of the cost of a 5th gen, even with the same or LESS mods....Face it, the 5th gen is FAT and that puts it even with an f-body made 10 or 15 years ago.

You better check your ricer definitions also and while you are at it also check the difference between having an opinion and been close minded. Just point out what, of the facts discussed here about the 5th gen, are NOT true.

I sense a lot of frustration with 5th gen guys around here. I think they expected a different response or attitude towards owning the latest GM creation. Reality is never as one expects. It has been proven that the 4th gen and 5th gen are similar performance wise for all the details put forward here.

If someone needs to face it is you.

I have to disagree... Mike G, blacksilvr02ss, chrs1313, all have been 11's with bolton only ls1's.

I stand corrected, sir.

It has been proven that the 4th gen and 5th gen are similar performance wise for all the details put forward here.


No, it has been proven that the exceptional 4th gens are similar to the 5th gen norm with a normal person behind the wheel. It's the 4th gen hold outs that make me want to keep my car instead of getting that vette. I am still yet to run into a bolt-on 4th gen that can hang at a stop light race. It's just I have reached the limit where the car needs weight reduction and drive train help. 9" or auto conversion? Problem is that both are way too expensive because the car is still the flavor of the week. I have owned my share of 4th gens and have no desire to own one again. It's either vette or 5th gen.

To be honest with you, I sold my 6 speed for $2000, and the clutch for $650. A built 4l80 auto and converter cost me $2800. Of course, factor in a trans cooler, dipstick, and trans controller if you dont want to go manual valve body, but it's not really expensive to do the swap if you have the ability and space/means, just time consuming. If anything, it should keep the factory rear alive longer.

One nice thing is I can take the entire motor out from the top in about 30 minutes, and change all 8 plugs in 10. Try doing that in a fourth gen. Just try. These cars are so friendly to work on in comparison its almost embarassing. The radiator/fan harness even disconnects itself as a unit and you dont have to invidually unplug everything. Brilliant. Worth 400 pounds extra? No. But its a fair trade. The 5th gen interior is cavernous compared to the fourth gen, but thats neither good nor bad. Its all around refined, but its a completely different chassis, so what do you expect? I miss my fourth gen, but it isnt really fair to compare the two cars.

No, it has been proven that the exceptional 4th gens are similar to the 5th gen norm with a normal person behind the wheel. It's the 4th gen hold outs that make me want to keep my car instead of getting that vette. I am still yet to run into a bolt-on 4th gen that can hang at a stop light race. It's just I have reached the limit where the car needs weight reduction and drive train help. 9" or auto conversion? Problem is that both are way too expensive because the car is still the flavor of the week. I have owned my share of 4th gens and have no desire to own one again. It's either vette or 5th gen.

thats because your not running into the right 4th gen. All it takes is a good driver and some sticky tires on it and the outcome you have been having, will be different.

No, it has been proven that the exceptional 4th gens are similar to the 5th gen norm with a normal person behind the wheel. It's the 4th gen hold outs that make me want to keep my car instead of getting that vette. I am still yet to run into a bolt-on 4th gen that can hang at a stop light race. It's just I have reached the limit where the car needs weight reduction and drive train help. 9" or auto conversion? Problem is that both are way too expensive because the car is still the flavor of the week. I have owned my share of 4th gens and have no desire to own one again. It's either vette or 5th gen.

Same scenario happened to me and my bolt on TA came on top over a 5th gen SS. Mods of it? at least a catback. Guy didn't want to say anything after the outcome. Similar stories are around here by the handful.

The fact is there, weight hinders them badly and evens out performances of both 5th and 4th. Not my or anybody else's fault...its GM's.

To be honest with you, I sold my 6 speed for $2000, and the clutch for $650. A built 4l80 auto and converter cost me $2800. Of course, factor in a trans cooler, dipstick, and trans controller if you dont want to go manual valve body, but it's not really expensive to do the swap if you have the ability and space/means, just time consuming. If anything, it should keep the factory rear alive longer.

One nice thing is I can take the entire motor out from the top in about 30 minutes, and change all 8 plugs in 10. Try doing that in a fourth gen. Just try. These cars are so friendly to work on in comparison its almost embarassing. The radiator/fan harness even disconnects itself as a unit and you dont have to invidually unplug everything. Brilliant. Worth 400 pounds extra? No. But its a fair trade. The 5th gen interior is cavernous compared to the fourth gen, but thats neither good nor bad. Its all around refined, but its a completely different chassis, so what do you expect? I miss my fourth gen, but it isnt really fair to compare the two cars.

Why it isnt fair? Same class of car, 10 years apart aprox....where is the problem?

Why it isnt fair? Same class of car, 10 years apart aprox....where is the problem?

Same class? Hardly. 5th gen is faster in a line and around a course. Its also a 2dr built on a 4dr chassis. Struts vs a arms, irs vs sra. They are nothing alike besides the fact they both have two doors and a worthless backseat

people have taken stalled L99s with a tune, cai, and NO headers and ran 12.30s on DRs...

11s with bolt-ons is VERY MUCH doable for a 5th gen... just as easy if not EASIER than a 4th gen.... like I said, until you start talking 450+whp and traction becomes a huge issue, the 5th gens are actually a good bit faster than the 4th gens... I'm not arguing for the IRS, once you get the IRS to about 450whp, it does start to get hampered in drag racing and the LS1 will catch it and surpass it in the modding game...

but for those of us that want to throw some bolt-ons, a tune, and a cam on a Camaro... well, i'd gladly line a 5th gen up against the 4th gen guys with the same mods, especially with a stall and some DRs

a car being over weight doesn't mean jack shit if you still get the win light

No, it has been proven that the exceptional 4th gens are similar to the 5th gen norm with a normal person behind the wheel. It's the 4th gen hold outs that make me want to keep my car instead of getting that vette. I am still yet to run into a bolt-on 4th gen that can hang at a stop light race.

I think we would be a good race....pulled a 12.2 @ 120.5 w/ a 3.9sec 0-60mph lastnight on a g-tech... and multiple 12.3 passes w/ 4.0 0-60. Now before you flame the g-tech times lol, I have compared it to my local track on the same day and conditions. It was within a tenth on et but reads 5mph high on the trap speed.
Mods: 1 3/4 headers, flowmaster cb, slp lid/cai, ported tb, 1.85 rockers/ 918 springs, shift kit,stock converter, 3.73 gears, 315-35-17 toyo tq dr's, diablo tuned by me.
To bad your not closer, I would love to play!

but for those of us that want to throw some bolt-ons, a tune, and a cam on a Camaro... well, i'd gladly line a 5th gen up against the 4th gen guys with the same mods, especially with a stall and some DRs

a car being over weight doesn't mean jack shit if you still get the win light

Ill drag your :turd: with with my stock converter junk:drive:
Lol Im only joking man... Imo both 5th gen and 4th gens are very close performance wise with equal drivers

My 99 would have wiped the floor with our l99 car from a stop in a straight line so I have to disagree where autos are concerned.

My 99s went 11s with bolt ons,no gutting,stock rims,stall and drag radials. Not sure if the l99 with the same mods could have done the same

people have taken stalled L99s with a tune, cai, and NO headers and ran 12.30s on DRs...

11s with bolt-ons is VERY MUCH doable for a 5th gen... just as easy if not EASIER than a 4th gen.... like I said, until you start talking 450+whp and traction becomes a huge issue, the 5th gens are actually a good bit faster than the 4th gens... I'm not arguing for the IRS, once you get the IRS to about 450whp, it does start to get hampered in drag racing and the LS1 will catch it and surpass it in the modding game...

but for those of us that want to throw some bolt-ons, a tune, and a cam on a Camaro... well, i'd gladly line a 5th gen up against the 4th gen guys with the same mods, especially with a stall and some DRs

a car being over weight doesn't mean jack shit if you still get the win light

I'll take you up on that any day of the week, and you would lose, severely..... You wont get the win light, this is really getting amusing...... There are cam only 4th gens that are faster than 99% of fifth gens out there..... Weight means everything in drag racing... I have a bolt on auto also that I bet would spank a 5th gen like a little bitch.

And 4th gens are a Strut-type SLA (short arm long arm) which does handle better than regular macpherson strut type, it has more to do with chassis rigidity, and how it was executed in the f body.

I think we would be a good race....pulled a 12.2 @ 120.5 w/ a 3.9sec 0-60mph lastnight on a g-tech... and multiple 12.3 passes w/ 4.0 0-60. Now before you flame the g-tech times lol, I have compared it to my local track on the same day and conditions. It was within a tenth on et but reads 5mph high on the trap speed.
Mods: 1 3/4 headers, flowmaster cb, slp lid/cai, ported tb, 1.85 rockers/ 918 springs, shift kit,stock converter, 3.73 gears, 315-35-17 toyo tq dr's, diablo tuned by me.
To bad your not closer, I would love to play!

120 mph trap speed?? Trap definitely seems off with the Gtech. I'm trapping 114 at the most. No Limit raceway is a good meeting place.

thats because your not running into the right 4th gen. All it takes is a good driver and some sticky tires on it and the outcome you have been having, will be different.
Same can be said that you haven't ran into the right 5th gen. 99.5% of all 5th gens aren't the right 5th gen either. Most of the cars I have ran have been my friends on mikey's or nitto's both auto and 6 speed with decent drivers. The 4th gens out 60' by a bit but the 5th gen comes right around with mph. Shit, I was door to door with an MS4 cammed 99 SS from a 40 roll. I've ran a 12.4 on a stock street tire. I don't know how you guys can knock that. Weight reduction and a decent tire and my goal is 11's.

And 4th gens are a Strut-type SLA (short arm long arm) which does handle better than regular macpherson strut type, it has more to do with chassis rigidity, and how it was executed in the f body.
LOL @ 4th gen and chassis rigidity in the same sentence.

This hole thing is joke, these guys cant come to turms with the truth! They keep calling it a heavy turd because thats the ONLY thing they have over them, less weight. Big freaking deal already, go check out camaro5... in the last 2 weeks there are a number of 10 and 9 sec 5th gens with killer setups coming out by guys that know what there doing! These cars are not gutted full blown drag cars either, it just took some time for these cars to start getting built.

120 mph trap speed?? Trap definitely seems off with the Gtech. I'm trapping 114 at the most. No Limit raceway is a good meeting place.


Same can be said that you haven't ran into the right 5th gen. 99.5% of all 5th gens aren't the right 5th gen either. Most of the cars I have ran have been my friends on mikey's or nitto's both auto and 6 speed with decent drivers. The 4th gens out 60' by a bit but the 5th gen comes right around with mph. Shit, I was door to door with an MS4 cammed 99 SS from a 40 roll. I've ran a 12.4 on a stock street tire. I don't know how you guys can knock that. Weight reduction and a decent tire and my goal is 11's.


LOL @ 4th gen and chassis rigidity in the same sentence.

Uhh I said the g-tech reads 5mph high lol...always has on every car it's been tested on because it reads actual mph and does not take an avg. like the track does. Fwiw I slightly pulled my brothers srt4 from a 40roll and he trapped 115 @ muncie dragway(that was before the tune and dr's). Im not knocking your car at all... 12.4 is movin, but I have went 12.5 on a street tire aswell. My point remains that the 5th gen and 4th gen are close in performance on bolton cars. My goal is 11's with a fti 3800 stall and NO weight reduction.

Uhh I said the g-tech reads 5mph high lol...always has on every car it's been tested on because it reads actual mph and does not take an avg. like the track does. Fwiw I slightly pulled my brothers srt4 from a 40roll and he trapped 115 @ muncie dragway(that was before the tune and dr's). Im not knocking your car at all... 12.4 is movin, but I have went 12.5 on a street tire aswell. My point remains that the 5th gen and 4th gen are close in performance on bolton cars. My goal is 11's with a fti 3800 stall and NO weight reduction.

I was agreeing with you about the Gtech. I have never used one. 12.5 is impressive and I'm not knocking that at all. L99 cars have gone 12.2's pretty regularly on stock tires/stall on Camaro 5 pretty often. I'll get you 60' was much better on that 12.5 pass than my 1.9. On average I'm saying a well set up bolt-on 5th gen is at least 3-4 tenths faster with an equal driver. Pretty much the same difference between an LT1 and LS1. Are you going to tell me that LT1's and LS1's are close?

120 mph trap speed?? Trap definitely seems off with the Gtech. I'm trapping 114 at the most. No Limit raceway is a good meeting place.


Same can be said that you haven't ran into the right 5th gen. 99.5% of all 5th gens aren't the right 5th gen either. Most of the cars I have ran have been my friends on mikey's or nitto's both auto and 6 speed with decent drivers. The 4th gens out 60' by a bit but the 5th gen comes right around with mph. Shit, I was door to door with an MS4 cammed 99 SS from a 40 roll. I've ran a 12.4 on a stock street tire. I don't know how you guys can knock that. Weight reduction and a decent tire and my goal is 11's.


LOL @ 4th gen and chassis rigidity in the same sentence.


there is a 5th gen local that has a head and cam package that is "450rwhp".

he trapped slower then me without even opening my bottle..... and im just a lil old cam only ls1.

I was agreeing with you about the Gtech. I have never used one. 12.5 is impressive and I'm not knocking that at all. L99 cars have gone 12.2's pretty regularly on stock tires/stall on Camaro 5 pretty often. I'll get you 60' was much better on that 12.5 pass than my 1.9. On average I'm saying a well set up bolt-on 5th gen is at least 3-4 tenths faster with an equal driver. Pretty much the same difference between an LT1 and LS1. Are you going to tell me that LT1's and LS1's are close?

the 12.5 run was on a 2.0 at 500da. The car is trapping like a mild cam car because it's curb weight is 3380. with its mods and a 1/4 tank of gas it sits around 3280. Part of the reason why I snatched up this 1sc stripper, it's almost 200lbs less than a full optioned slp ss or ws6 car. I have always liked the idea of going faster with less... its cheaper and a hell of alot easier on parts. Oh and yes some lt1's were close with some ls1's... same rules apply between 4th and 5th gens. I had a 96 m6 lt1 that trapped 105-106 with a cai and cat back. I beat some ls1's with it and got my ass handed to me by some aswell. Im a car enthusiast in general and not partial to just 4th gens, so please dont take my posts the wrong way. I like 5th gens, 5.0's, srt4's, 84-87 monte carlo SS, buick gn, buick regal GS, and all of the old school muscle.