Advanced Engineering Tech - ITB's for LS engines

I am about to start some R&D work on AFFORDABLE ( trying to hit sub $2,000 range) billet aluminum ITB's. What are some things you guys would like to see in a set of ITB's? What sizes would be a good all round size? I was thinking starting off with 48mm bore and offering custom sizes for an extra charge.

I plan on making a plenum available for my ITB setups as well as coming with a set of removable velocity stacks.

Which head setup would you think will be most popular? I plan on making the first set fit L92/LS3 heads. Should I consider other head setups as well?

cathedral port

The ITB's will be a "base plate" design allowing different intake adapter wedges to be made. Cathedral port will likely be one plate design.

To do a cathedral port setup, I would need a set of donor heads to do a mock fit on since all I have is a set of new L92 heads on a LS2 block.

The ITB's will be a "base plate" design allowing different intake adapter wedges to be made. Cathedral port will likely be one plate design.

To do a cathedral port setup, I would need a set of donor heads to do a mock fit on since all I have is a set of new L92 heads on a LS2 block.

One MUST is that it fit under the cowl of a f-body with little/no modifications to the car. That would be a huge thing. I think the Harrop is the only one that thats the case with and its VERY expensive, and I've heard its alot of shit to get it right. Another plus would be to keep a direct port setup in mind for those of us who would run nitrous on it. I can see it being hard to plumb up a direct port setup depending on the design.

I'd be intrested in helping! (CADD major here)

I am about to start some R&D work on AFFORDABLE ( trying to hit sub $2,000 range) billet aluminum ITB's. What are some things you guys would like to see in a set of ITB's? What sizes would be a good all round size? I was thinking starting off with 48mm bore and offering custom sizes for an extra charge.

I plan on making a plenum available for my ITB setups as well as coming with a set of removable velocity stacks.

Which head setup would you think will be most popular? I plan on making the first set fit L92/LS3 heads. Should I consider other head setups as well?

The first thing I want to see is one on my car with 55mm bores...:D

I'd be intrested in helping! (CADD major here)

It would be wonderful to have some CADD work for the adapter plates. I was going to hand program the shape and contour of the ports to adapt to a round hole. I would really be interested in doing something with you. I was going to try and do it with my MasterCam X2 and some subtle changes at the CNC mill.

One MUST is that it fit under the cowl of a f-body with little/no modifications to the car. That would be a huge thing. I think the Harrop is the only one that thats the case with and its VERY expensive, and I've heard its alot of shit to get it right. Another plus would be to keep a direct port setup in mind for those of us who would run nitrous on it. I can see it being hard to plumb up a direct port setup depending on the design.

That would not really be a problem, I think. All I would have to do is get a couple measurements for space constraints. I am pretty sure that could be arranged.

Direct port is rather simple, I could even plumb it to a -AN fitting for easy hookup.......for an extra charge of coarse. That is nothing but notching for another hole and bracket and getting the depth right.

Also, for diameters, I think I am only going to go with two sizes. 48mm and 55mm. Any other sizes would have to be custom.

I am also looking into a way to have some fittings so that I can make a pressure proof intake so they can be used for boost. The design I have in mind will be short in stature and spacers can be added to increase runner length for those interested in long tube ITB's.

It would be wonderful to have some CADD work for the adapter plates. I was going to hand program the shape and contour of the ports to adapt to a round hole. I would really be interested in doing something with you. I was going to try and do it with my MasterCam X2 and some subtle changes at the CNC mill.

For my final project i will be doing a ITB set up on Autodesk Inventor. Think it would be cool bases off my PI LS7 cylinder heads.

Adapter plates...?

If you build them like this (link below)...with different length stacks that can be quick changed....you will sell them like hot cakes for under $2,000. Make sure it also has a variable throttle cable cam gear too.

These people didn't reply when I tried last year a few times.
http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/the-281/V8-Kit-cln--Chevy-LS1/Detail

Here's the different length stacks they have:
http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/the-ITBs-%26-Accessories/Categories

.

The ITB's will be a "base plate" design allowing different intake adapter wedges to be made. Cathedral port will likely be one plate design.

To do a cathedral port setup, I would need a set of donor heads to do a mock fit on since all I have is a set of new L92 heads on a LS2 block.
I have a set of 853's that are yours for shipping cost

For my final project i will be doing a ITB set up on Autodesk Inventor. Think it would be cool bases off my PI LS7 cylinder heads.

Adapter plates...?

The design I am making will be a VERY sleek looking unit. The base is a wedge that bolts directly to the head and adapts the port shape to the matching diameter of the ITB. There will be a corresponding top plate that will bolt on. The ITB's will bolt to the top plate from underneath that way the look is sleek and void of any brackets or flanges. Then the top of the ITB's will have four holes allowing for a variety of mounting options. You can bolt the extension adapter to the top of the ITB or to the bottom, your choice.

The throttle cable cam will be an very simple setup and will come with a couple different length rods to allow for an almost infinite amount of adjustment. The pre-fitted adjustment settings will be marked for a baseline though.

Everything will be polished and maybe even hard anodized depending on pricing. Also, custom anything can be done to them. I have a full function machine shop at my access to develop these.

I am really looking into making a boost ready setup, especially since I have a customer already lined up for one if I can do it.

The design I am making will be a VERY sleek looking unit. The base is a wedge that bolts directly to the head and adapts the port shape to the matching diameter of the ITB. There will be a corresponding top plate that will bolt on. The ITB's will bolt to the top plate from underneath that way the look is sleek and void of any brackets or flanges. Then the top of the ITB's will have four holes allowing for a variety of mounting options. You can bolt the extension adapter to the top of the ITB or to the bottom, your choice.

The throttle cable cam will be an very simple setup and will come with a couple different length rods to allow for an almost infinite amount of adjustment. The pre-fitted adjustment settings will be marked for a baseline though.

Everything will be polished and maybe even hard anodized depending on pricing. Also, custom anything can be done to them. I have a full function machine shop at my access to develop these.

I am really looking into making a boost ready setup, especially since I have a customer already lined up for one if I can do it.

If you can do this for the price you say, I'll be getting one as well if it can show a improvement in performance (shouldn't be a problem I would think?). What kind of TBs are you planning on using? Also, how do you plan on integrating the TPS sensor?

Any sort of individual throttle body will make a substantial performance increase, providing the port sizes are matched properly.

The throttle bodies I plan on using will be my own design all made in house (MAYBE with the exception of the throttle shafts). The throttle plates will be brass plates, the rest will be stainless and aluminum. The design I have drafted up so far is going to be a knockout in the looks department as well as TONS of room for bore size options (Maybe up to 59-60mm!).

The TPS will be VERY simple. The throttle cam shaft will attach directly to a housing and bracket specifically machined to accept a standard GM TPS. (5.0v reference)

Trust me guys, when I am done, you will look at these as a head slapper. You be all like, "why didn't I think of that". :P

Air filters, air boxes, ability to suck the air from outside the car???

Christian

Air filters, air boxes, ability to suck the air from outside the car???

Christian

The ability to suck air from outside will be up to the car owner. I can make ram pans that can mate up to a hood but that is about it. The air filters will be of the high revving motorcycle throttle body configuration. One per TB.

I plan on making a boost sustainable air box to connect to the ITB's for those that wish to boost their setups. I will also likely make spacers with additional injector holes for those that need it. Obviously that will be a by the order part.

Everything will be sealed with o-rings that are standard size. That way the gaskets are cheap and readily available.

So far the design is coming along pretty good, all I need now is to start getting measurements like injector hole diameters and to get dimensions off of the L92/LS3 style ports and from the cathedral ports. Once I do that it is just a matter of time before the first set will be made.

Beard, I would LOVE to test one of these for the cathedral port heads. I have a few sets laying around I could part with for just shipping if we could work something out. :) My LS6 intake is REALLY holding me back I think...This thing should do the trick.

First thing I would do, is go put my hands on a few different sets of ITBs already out there. That way you can see what others are doing, and either their respective shortcomings, or what you like about them. One of the best things you can do when trying to re-engineer something, is to get an idea of how others are doing it. That way you can see what you do and don't like about an existing product or part.

There is alot more to consider than a single cylinder setup as far as designing ITBs. One thing is total packaging. Size, layout, etc. Next is indivudual cylinder tunability. This is a problem with a common throttle shaft, and a common throttle shaft is one of the features that greatly reduces cost of manufacturing. Then there's the problem of a common plenum. Unless you're casting the lower manifold, something will need to be done about a common plenum, if you intend to run an IAC, or MAP sensor, etc.

Good luck in your endeavor. I think you will find it more than "challenging" to try and manufacture these for the price quoted.

Edcmat makes a good point. I was thinking about it last night, and you'll also have to figure something out as far as vacuum goes. I'm pretty sure most of us would like to keep out power brakes for sure.

Good luck in your endeavor. I think you will find it more than "challenging" to try and manufacture these for the price quoted.

DAMN, what a buzz kill...:D

First thing I would do, is go put my hands on a few different sets of ITBs already out there. That way you can see what others are doing, and either their respective shortcomings, or what you like about them. One of the best things you can do when trying to re-engineer something, is to get an idea of how others are doing it. That way you can see what you do and don't like about an existing product or part.

There is alot more to consider than a single cylinder setup as far as designing ITBs. One thing is total packaging. Size, layout, etc. Next is indivudual cylinder tunability. This is a problem with a common throttle shaft, and a common throttle shaft is one of the features that greatly reduces cost of manufacturing. Then there's the problem of a common plenum. Unless you're casting the lower manifold, something will need to be done about a common plenum, if you intend to run an IAC, or MAP sensor, etc.

Good luck in your endeavor. I think you will find it more than "challenging" to try and manufacture these for the price quoted.

I have both a set of Toda Racing ITB's and a set of TWM ITB's for a couple different Honda engines. I have made about 10 or so sets of ITB's out of Honda 954RR throttle bodies with great sucess.

I will flow all ITB's for a symmetrical idle opening to a metered amount of air required to keep the engines running. It will be adjustable by the customer but will be wax sealed so that people don't tamper with it unless they have the equipment to set them.

As for the vacuum manifold, done and done. I already have one made up and I even have a mounting bracket designed. There will be four 1/8" NPT holes to install small barbed nipples and a larger 1/4" NPT hole for the brake booster hose. I am also thinking of making a mounting surface and using a Denso style MAP sensor mounting point. That way I can just include the MAP sensor and a pigtail harness to splice in to the vehicle harness.

The part that actually connects between the cylinder head and throttle bodies will be machined from a solid billet. The intake plenum chamber that will attach to the ITB's is an optional piece and will cost more. Some goes with a ram pan for those that want to use a ram air hood. Also, for those that want to use this in a boost application, the plenum and parts required to make it happen will cost a decent bit since everything will be bolt together requiring the plenum be made in two halves. This has to be done so there will not be any areas for leaks to form.

The ITB setup I am trying to get into the $2k (may be a little more, but hopefully not much) or so price range will consist of the following:

8 ITB's (two sets of 4) completely assembled
2 ITB mounting plates L & R
2 adapters to go between the cylinder head and the mounting plate. These can be changed to fit to just about any engine
1 vacuum manifold and mount bracket
a roll of O-ring
all vacuum hose required
TPS already set to proper specification will be mounted to throttle cam assembly.


All of this will be made in the USA and I WILL NOT outsource any of it. I refuse to send money out of the country if I don't have to.

Cant wait to see some more progress on this. I barely have my FAST setup running and already want an ITB setup. :nod:

The key element of my design is to keep everything simple as possible. Keeping things simple makes them cheap. In theory anyway :P

Maybe I havn't waited long enough but is there any update on this? Haha

Any updates?

Sorry guys, updates are slow right now. I have a LOT going on. DBW Fiber is up my butt about making molds right now, it will come but things are a little slow right now.

I still need a set of cathedral port heads to fit up with and get measurements. Unported and busted would be fine, as all I need is a clean cylinder head mating surface and intake surfaces. I am also game for any damaged square port heads. Anything that will bolt up to a LS block, I want to make these fit them.

Wow, if you could come in at your price point, I'd buy it just for the pimp factor alone with the added power and tunability as an added bonus.

I hope to be able to, it will just make the project take a little more time. I have to find low overhead ways to prototype them out and to get the adapter flanges CAD'ed out and converted to a .dxf format for machining. I really want to find a way to make ITB's an affordable option for everybody.

I think ITB setups should cost less than a turbo setup and be easy to use and adjust. Why spend more money on something that gives you less power? Down with that noise I say!! ITB's for ALL!!!

:P

Sidenote: I plan on making these boost friendly for those that choose to do both! :)

When I say price point, I'm not squabling over $2400 vs $2000, but it's when guys say $2000, but come in at $3500 when it goes to production that causes grief.

Either way I hope to see this move forward. Merry Christmas and Happy New Years and here's to hoping we see these in the near future.

I'd be happy with $3500 even, if it was a solid quality piece. The Harrops are $5500 now, with the Kinslers about the same.

I have a 454 ls7 being built and I want to do itbs on it like I did with my 468.

I paid over $4500 for my Harrop, and I don't regret it one bit. I love it. I plan on every NA motor I own from here on out to have an itb.

Bump. I wish I would have seen this sooner, but ohh well! I'm using a sheet-metal Hogans Racing intake and Inglese TB's for my L92 setup. I'll have about 5K into mine before any visual modifications, and that's wo/ injectors, billet stacks, and filter covers.

Good luck man!

Beard, where are you located? I have Ls1 heads that I dont care if you use.

I am in Charleston, SC.

I have set a goal for this project. I would like to have a working prototype by July 2011.

I may have to do a group buy in order to get them put into production, but they will be made. I will have to machine the first base plates but I have found a source to formcast the base plates so that there is not a lot of machine time in making the ports. By casting the plates and then coming back and machining the surfaces and drilling/tapping the holes will save lots and lots of machining and will ultimately drive the price down.

I may also make other components out of cast material to shave cost and make manufacturing easier, as well as make it better for high volume if need be.

I will need probably 8-10 people to buy the setup at first so that production can happen. Do you guys think I should have any trouble finding candidates? The price mark looks to be under $3k and most likely in the $2.5k range. I wanted them to be cheaper, and they may very well be. The larges deciding factor of price will be the cost of the base plates and the cost of getting the throttle shafts Wire EDM'ed out.

In this price range, for a product showing a good R&D and substantial advantages...you will find your quota of customer easily!!!

Christian

In this price range, for a product showing a good R&D and substantial advantages...you will find your quota of customer easily!!!

Christian

I think I know two guys at least that are very interested to see how this develops. I imagine a proto will be done first so people can see what they will be advancing $$$ for and make their own decision as to the viability on thier respective builds.

I would have no problem spending $2500-$3000 for a cathedral version if it showed potential to make 20-30 more horsepower than a FAST.

I have set a goal for this project. I would like to have a working prototype by July 2011.

I may have to do a group buy in order to get them put into production, but they will be made. I will have to machine the first base plates but I have found a source to formcast the base plates so that there is not a lot of machine time in making the ports. By casting the plates and then coming back and machining the surfaces and drilling/tapping the holes will save lots and lots of machining and will ultimately drive the price down.

I may also make other components out of cast material to shave cost and make manufacturing easier, as well as make it better for high volume if need be.

I will need probably 8-10 people to buy the setup at first so that production can happen. Do you guys think I should have any trouble finding candidates? The price mark looks to be under $3k and most likely in the $2.5k range. I wanted them to be cheaper, and they may very well be. The larges deciding factor of price will be the cost of the base plates and the cost of getting the throttle shafts Wire EDM'ed out.

Yeah you NEED to get a "prototypish" one together first. That will be a big selling factor for people. They will be a lot more willing to spend the money if they can see and touch the product first. Selling an idea can be very hard to do, esp at $2500 a pop. Good luck, cant wait to see it come together. :chug:

A WORKING prototype would be a given fellas.

I am actually kinda anxious to get this project moving forward. I wish I could hurry the process but it is only going to go as fast as my personal finances allow along with adequate time to do it. Work has me strapped right now and to top things off, I may have just volunteered myself to running the financial end of the company I work for. Hopefully everything will come together nicely by the end of summer.

Here's a neet idea, a shared plenum built into the botton of a ITB setup so you will have a nice vaccum reference for brakes and MAP sensor...

http://www.mooregoodink.com/news/?p=2195

Let's assume that everything goes just cherry and you have a prototype and get 10+ orders at $2,500 each. Where are you planning on marketing these longer term than that? Are you putting up a site, already have one, or selling drop ship through third parties?
Just wondering, because by July I will not have an extra $2,500. I could, but I plan for life not going 100% my way so I have to assume I will need more time.
That said, will there be more than the initial run made if it seems to be fiscally viable or is this a short run temporary item?

Initially, I will literally be riding the coat tails of the LS platform to get my feet wet. From there I would like to make them work with endless other options. My roots will stay with GM.

I have the manufacturing facility and the initial run would only be to incorporate investment cast base plates to keep the cost down on making the port shapes so we don't have to CNC machine every port. The only one that should require the costly and time consuming machining will be the prototype.

With these, I would like to use them as a tool to create exotic and high end automotive performance parts that perform with the best at a price that the average Joe can afford.

Here's a neet idea, a shared plenum built into the botton of a ITB setup so you will have a nice vaccum reference for brakes and MAP sensor...

http://www.mooregoodink.com/news/?p=2195

Using something like this would prove too costly. Plus, I have plans for the valley cover as an option.

I want there to be a simple base plate design with adjustable throttle linkage to bridge the gap between heads. Doing this will allow me to be able to accept as many engine platforms as possible.

Progress Note:

I NEED cylinder heads and even possibly a busted block to mock up with and get measurements from.

I am about to make a trip to Jamison's Corvettes but I highly doubt Mr. Jamison will let me have even a busted engine for free.

The cheaper my design costs are now, the cheaper the parts are later.

Subscribed.

Curious, is your design crossflow or vertical stacks? Different length & diameter trumpets would be sweet.

The one thing that kind of stuck out to me was the throttle body size. I was looking into building a set a while ago and and found that the 48 / tapered GSXR throttle bodies I was going to use would prove to be too small by other's math. Harrop offers a minimum of 52 with the option of 55. Someone should be willing to give you a set of messed up heads for the price of shipping.

I can pay for any shipping. Just get my phone number and go to a UPS Store and I will pay all shipping costs.

The design I have is set up for a vertical setup. The diameters will be VERY easy to change and adjust on my end and I can make a 6 foot long trumpet if you wanted it :P

Once people see how easy this design is, there will be people out there going "Why didn't I think of that!". The largest difference is the fact that I am a manager of a machine shop and I know how to use the machinery to put my ideas into fruition. It also helps when the owner of said machine shop is family and is also on board with getting these done. He is in fact making me take time every week in dedication to getting these made. It is always nice when you have someone there to help push you along.

Sorry for the lack of updates recently, I will hopefully have some pictures of progress to post soon. I was promoted recently and I have been very very bust with the transition.

Take your time and best of luck in the new position.

"I was looking into building a set a while ago and and found that the 48 / tapered GSXR throttle bodies I was going to use would prove to be too small by other's math."

A 48mm Weber for example is actually less than that when you count for the venturi and the throttle blade and shaft. So I can see where they say to use a 52mm.

I can't wait to see pics of this setup. Most of the affordable manifolds available to the LS market are still holding us back. We need to let these engine breath in order for them to shine. This product might just be the key if priced right.

"Most of the affordable manifolds available to the LS market are still holding us back."

Interesting thought. So do you think an ITB would be maybe the best solution with of course the proper diameter and length?

Where are you with this project?

Subscribed.

So what ever happened with this project? Any news?

I believe these are Kinslers.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/duwem/1003tr_071957_chevy_stepside_pickupround_tube_chas sis.jpg

I know they were wicked expensive, but they come from a well known company...

that looks like an ls7 unit.

kinsler does not make any units that work drive by wire, so all newer gen guys are sort of screwed.

there ls1 ls2 cathdral port unit costs about 4900 with a ability to setup the dbw motor.
according to a fellow at kinsler.

the actual unit costs about 2800-2900 but its all the options that you have to purchase that adds up.
ie : $510 for billet fuel rails LOL.



jenvey sells a unit that apparently is out the door at 3500 with shipping.
they were also gonna give me a 10 percent discount on the unit, but i dont have cable throttle, dbw ls2 gto here.
apparently they are working on a dbw unit.
so i will wait for them.

and harrop?

who the hell knows, ive sent a few emails to them with no luck,
i have contacted va speed with no luck also.
probably should call them
but i guess if harrop makes the most complete kit, and supposedly the only dbw kit they will probably charge alot more then id be willing to spend.

For sure there is no MAF sensor, is there a MAP sensor with ITB's?

Wonder what that setup sounds like???

Map sensor is necessary

Iac and tps in some cases

Just received email from Julian at harrop.

Harrops

Just received email from Julian at harrop.

Harrops itb costs $6405 plus freight.

$6405. That's insane.

$6405. That's insane.

Agreed. Altho not quite as high priced, people will pay an unbelievabely unneccessary amount for a sheetmetal intake such as Hogan's, which mostly goes towards nice aluminum polish and weld beads, not remotely worth it IMO.

7 months and no pics.....what a jip.

No updates?? In the time since this thread was started, I found/MADE time to handle the following:

Go to SEMA
My flexplate blew up on the drive out to SEMA, 30 minutes away from Vegas
Had the car towed to my parents place 100 miles away from my apartment, ended up not going to SEMA
Only worked on it every other weekend, due to the 100 mile one-way distance, with a DD getting 16MPG highway
Purchased/built all of the remaining tools necessary to do an engine/trans pull/replace w/o a lift
Pulled the motor/transmission
Disassembled the motor down to the bare block
Brought the bare block 100 miles back with me to the apartment
Purchased all of the forged components necessary to rebuild the block
Had the pistons coated by a local reputable aerospace coatings company
Brought the block to a machine shop for initial cleanup/honing
Paid a more reputable shop to properly assemble the shortblock
Two months later it was complete (delays with the shop and my ordering/coating parts).
Got a base tune put on the PCM
Brought the shortblock 100 miles back to rejoin the car
Turned the shortblock into a longblock
Installed the longblock and transmission into the car
Bled the brakes, changed all the fluids, and got the car running
Retuned the car with a wideband and a couple of days of street tuning
Had the transmission fail
Found a built transmission 80 miles away
Drove 160 miles round trip to pick up the built transmission
Drove 50 miles to pick up the stock torque converter
Installed the built transmission
Now fixing other various quirks due to the car being down for 6 months and undergoing a new forged/built setup
imagine JUST the fuel cost of all of that, considering my DD was a 4.0L Jeep that got probably 16MPG highway.
now realize that a Harrop costs the same amount of money as what I spent on the forged motor/built trans project


...and I still haven't seen pics of this ITB setup, or a sketch... or anything... :nod:

No updates?? In the time since this thread was started, I found/MADE time to handle the following:

Go to SEMA
My flexplate blew up on the drive out to SEMA, 30 minutes away from Vegas
Had the car towed to my parents place 100 miles away from my apartment, ended up not going to SEMA
Only worked on it every other weekend, due to the 100 mile one-way distance, with a DD getting 16MPG highway
Purchased/built all of the remaining tools necessary to do an engine/trans pull/replace w/o a lift
Pulled the motor/transmission
Disassembled the motor down to the bare block
Brought the bare block 100 miles back with me to the apartment
Purchased all of the forged components necessary to rebuild the block
Had the pistons coated by a local reputable aerospace coatings company
Brought the block to a machine shop for initial cleanup/honing
Paid a more reputable shop to properly assemble the shortblock
Two months later it was complete (delays with the shop and my ordering/coating parts).
Got a base tune put on the PCM
Brought the shortblock 100 miles back to rejoin the car
Turned the shortblock into a longblock
Installed the longblock and transmission into the car
Bled the brakes, changed all the fluids, and got the car running
Retuned the car with a wideband and a couple of days of street tuning
Had the transmission fail
Found a built transmission 80 miles away
Drove 160 miles round trip to pick up the built transmission
Drove 50 miles to pick up the stock torque converter
Installed the built transmission
Now fixing other various quirks due to the car being down for 6 months and undergoing a new forged/built setup
imagine JUST the fuel cost of all of that, considering my DD was a 4.0L Jeep that got probably 16MPG highway.
now realize that a Harrop costs the same amount of money as what I spent on the forged motor/built trans project


...and I still haven't seen pics of this ITB setup, or a sketch... or anything... :nod:

I wish I had that much progress on my car in the last 7 months.

I wish I had that much progress on my car in the last 7 months.

At one point I was pretty much dying from a combination of bronchitis, the flu, and asthma. On a sick day (a week before I had to go to the ER), barely being able to stand, I brought the motor from my apartment to the motor builder and unloaded it at the motor builders shop. I place a lot of priority on car stuff, I guess. But this thread is just a tease. However, I had a lot of motivation: my Jeep was a money/gas-guzzling POS. Whereas I am unsure of how much motivation the OP has.

Edit: he hasn't logged into LS1tech since February...

WOW where are the ITBs ????
and what is the cost of all this hard work ???
there are a lot off ITBs out there from $3200-6000 to fit your engine

Agreed. Altho not quite as high priced, people will pay an unbelievabely unneccessary amount for a sheetmetal intake such as Hogan's, which mostly goes towards nice aluminum polish and weld beads, not remotely worth it IMO.

Yep...crazy. Its unfortunately a necessary evil in optimizing a build. For my build, FAST would work but would choke the cubes....Marcella's intake was on deck but couldn't build a big enough Tbody that would work on the street - idle and WOT only :barf: . Enter Kinsler.....twice what the Marcella intake was but should (better!) resolve the issues in street manners and feeding the beast. Dyno #'s in a couple weeks :devil:

Not familiar with Kinsler. My experience is limited to Harrop and Jenvey. Harrop is the only option for DBW right now. Harrop has a common plenum, and provisions for an IAC and MAP sensor common to all ports.

Jenvey is 8 seperate throttle bodies and ports. No common plenum. Jenvey, with no common plenum, has no IAC (remember this is cable, not DBW) and also, no real provision for a MAP sensor. So, it's MAP in one port, or Alpha N.

Just sayin........