Brand new valvesprings broke, what steps to take for documentation?
11-19-2010, 01:26 PM
#1
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Brand new valvesprings broke, what steps to take for documentation? LS2.
We just did a cam, heads (just L92's), valvesprings and pushrods on a buddies car. about 5 miles after finishing the job it dropped a valve while idling. there are a total of 6 broken springs, 3 on each head. I've checked the part numbers and they are correct. car was not beat on, springs were heat cycled twice before driven.
So far we have verified part numbers, installed height, timing, cam is well within spec for the springs and we are taking pictures of everything.
What other type of information should we acquire before we bring this up with the manufacturer?
for now im going to leave all part names out of this because im not going to sully the name of a well respected manufacturer unless it is necessary. just know everything is name brand and all new.
We just did a cam, heads (just L92's), valvesprings and pushrods on a buddies car. about 5 miles after finishing the job it dropped a valve while idling. there are a total of 6 broken springs, 3 on each head. I've checked the part numbers and they are correct. car was not beat on, springs were heat cycled twice before driven.
So far we have verified part numbers, installed height, timing, cam is well within spec for the springs and we are taking pictures of everything.
What other type of information should we acquire before we bring this up with the manufacturer?
for now im going to leave all part names out of this because im not going to sully the name of a well respected manufacturer unless it is necessary. just know everything is name brand and all new.
11-19-2010, 01:33 PM
#2
Thats pretty much much it. As long as you have the cam specs, total lift, install height and the batch number, miles/ time/ dyno pulls your good to go.
The manufacturer will more than likely put those springs under a microsope to verify how the spring broke and why.
What seems odd is you broke 3 on each head, were they all the same valves?
The manufacturer will more than likely put those springs under a microsope to verify how the spring broke and why.
What seems odd is you broke 3 on each head, were they all the same valves?
11-19-2010, 02:40 PM
#4
That sucks. Sounds like a bad batch if all of the i's were dotted and t's crossed when it was setup. It sounds like you checked everything that you should prior to running like coil bind, seat pressure, installed height etc...
Let us know how you make out.
Let us know how you make out.
11-19-2010, 03:40 PM
#5
First thing, get in touch with who sold them to you or the manufacturer and see what they want!
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11-19-2010, 04:00 PM
#7
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Turbobuick and Preston - randomly broke on each side. different valves.
thealchemist - this isn't my first rodeo haha, everything was done by the book and checked out ok as far as I can tell. nothing looked out of the ordinary in terms of install and the numbers (checked installed height and for coilbind/compressed height, didn't do seat pressure because its a relatively mild setup)
matt - thats next, i just wanted to get everything in line before we take the next step. I used to work in the industry and couldn't stand when people would be accusatory without any facts to back their claims up. and by no means are we being accusatory at this point I just dont want to sound like an uninformed person saying "hurr durr your stuff broke but i have no idea what i did and didnt check anything after install." I want to provide so much information there is no question as to the cause. I also want to make sure WE didnt make some mistake.
thealchemist - this isn't my first rodeo haha, everything was done by the book and checked out ok as far as I can tell. nothing looked out of the ordinary in terms of install and the numbers (checked installed height and for coilbind/compressed height, didn't do seat pressure because its a relatively mild setup)
matt - thats next, i just wanted to get everything in line before we take the next step. I used to work in the industry and couldn't stand when people would be accusatory without any facts to back their claims up. and by no means are we being accusatory at this point I just dont want to sound like an uninformed person saying "hurr durr your stuff broke but i have no idea what i did and didnt check anything after install." I want to provide so much information there is no question as to the cause. I also want to make sure WE didnt make some mistake.
Last edited by Kamin; 11-19-2010 at 04:05 PM.
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11-19-2010, 11:51 PM
#9
FormerVendor
LS2.
We just did a cam, heads (just L92's), valvesprings and pushrods on a buddies car. about 5 miles after finishing the job it dropped a valve while idling. there are a total of 6 broken springs, 3 on each head. I've checked the part numbers and they are correct. car was not beat on, springs were heat cycled twice before driven.
So far we have verified part numbers, installed height, timing, cam is well within spec for the springs and we are taking pictures of everything.
What other type of information should we acquire before we bring this up with the manufacturer?
for now im going to leave all part names out of this because im not going to sully the name of a well respected manufacturer unless it is necessary. just know everything is name brand and all new.
We just did a cam, heads (just L92's), valvesprings and pushrods on a buddies car. about 5 miles after finishing the job it dropped a valve while idling. there are a total of 6 broken springs, 3 on each head. I've checked the part numbers and they are correct. car was not beat on, springs were heat cycled twice before driven.
So far we have verified part numbers, installed height, timing, cam is well within spec for the springs and we are taking pictures of everything.
What other type of information should we acquire before we bring this up with the manufacturer?
for now im going to leave all part names out of this because im not going to sully the name of a well respected manufacturer unless it is necessary. just know everything is name brand and all new.
11-20-2010, 01:48 AM
#11
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NVR I did not personally measure the pushrod length as of yet. When we pull it apart this weekend they will be measured against the recommended length that was provided to us. I do not see the pushrods being the cause of this issue.
racer i absolutely have pictures (see below response) and the ID locators (is that even a word?) were the ones supplied with the set.
Daryn i will not release the name of the spring company unless the company refuses to help us. i have been in this industry for many years (apart from managing a performance shop for 7 years i own a message board with 5k members, and moderate 3 others with over 170k members total) and refuse to hurt someones name regardless of what happens. at this point the manufacturer doesn't even know there is something wrong and there is NO reason to hurt their name by saying their product failed. i know exactly how much damage can be done on a message board and wont do that to an innocent business. "**** happens" is a motto i have lived by for a majority of my life and im not going to drag someone down with me unless it is necessary.
racer i absolutely have pictures (see below response) and the ID locators (is that even a word?) were the ones supplied with the set.
Daryn i will not release the name of the spring company unless the company refuses to help us. i have been in this industry for many years (apart from managing a performance shop for 7 years i own a message board with 5k members, and moderate 3 others with over 170k members total) and refuse to hurt someones name regardless of what happens. at this point the manufacturer doesn't even know there is something wrong and there is NO reason to hurt their name by saying their product failed. i know exactly how much damage can be done on a message board and wont do that to an innocent business. "**** happens" is a motto i have lived by for a majority of my life and im not going to drag someone down with me unless it is necessary.
Last edited by Kamin; 11-20-2010 at 02:04 AM.
11-20-2010, 04:31 AM
#12
FormerVendor
ID or OD locators are the spring seats. Where did these springs bind at? What installed height were they set up at? What lift were they supposed to provide at what rocker ratio and did you check actual lift at the valve? What was seat and open pressure again? What was retainer to seal clearance? how much preload was on these rockers? Are all the rockers still good or did they get messed up as well? Were the rockers hitting the retainers? Do the locks still look good?
You don't need to name anyone to know that stuff. I have never heard of anything like that myself and we have been through and done a lot of engines and all are abused. I would say for that many springs to fail and to drop a valve in 5 miles I would suspect setup ten times more than "bad" springs. Still I could be wrong as sometimes maybe a bad batch can get by if QC is not so good.
If you want advice or help though you have to provide some real information as so far you haven't provided anything at all. Comp replaced many peoples springs at one time and fixed some stuff for people so these companies are not all bad but that much stuff breaking right away raises some serious red flags in general.
You don't need to name anyone to know that stuff. I have never heard of anything like that myself and we have been through and done a lot of engines and all are abused. I would say for that many springs to fail and to drop a valve in 5 miles I would suspect setup ten times more than "bad" springs. Still I could be wrong as sometimes maybe a bad batch can get by if QC is not so good.
If you want advice or help though you have to provide some real information as so far you haven't provided anything at all. Comp replaced many peoples springs at one time and fixed some stuff for people so these companies are not all bad but that much stuff breaking right away raises some serious red flags in general.
11-20-2010, 08:34 AM
#13
NVR I did not personally measure the pushrod length as of yet. When we pull it apart this weekend they will be measured against the recommended length that was provided to us. I do not see the pushrods being the cause of this issue.
racer i absolutely have pictures (see below response) and the ID locators (is that even a word?) were the ones supplied with the set.
Daryn i will not release the name of the spring company unless the company refuses to help us. i have been in this industry for many years (apart from managing a performance shop for 7 years i own a message board with 5k members, and moderate 3 others with over 170k members total) and refuse to hurt someones name regardless of what happens. at this point the manufacturer doesn't even know there is something wrong and there is NO reason to hurt their name by saying their product failed. i know exactly how much damage can be done on a message board and wont do that to an innocent business. "**** happens" is a motto i have lived by for a majority of my life and im not going to drag someone down with me unless it is necessary.
racer i absolutely have pictures (see below response) and the ID locators (is that even a word?) were the ones supplied with the set.
Daryn i will not release the name of the spring company unless the company refuses to help us. i have been in this industry for many years (apart from managing a performance shop for 7 years i own a message board with 5k members, and moderate 3 others with over 170k members total) and refuse to hurt someones name regardless of what happens. at this point the manufacturer doesn't even know there is something wrong and there is NO reason to hurt their name by saying their product failed. i know exactly how much damage can be done on a message board and wont do that to an innocent business. "**** happens" is a motto i have lived by for a majority of my life and im not going to drag someone down with me unless it is necessary.
11-20-2010, 09:39 AM
#14
In case he missed a measuring step or something else to let the mfgr know a little more information than he had thought of.
There are plenty of worse threads out there. I don't see what your issue is with this one?
There are plenty of worse threads out there. I don't see what your issue is with this one?
11-20-2010, 12:10 PM
#16
[QUOTE=Kamin;14142482]
Daryn i will not release the name of the spring company unless the company refuses to help us. i have been in this industry for many years (apart from managing a performance shop for 7 years i own a message board with 5k members, and moderate 3 others with over 170k members total) and refuse to hurt someones name regardless of what happens. at this point the manufacturer doesn't even know there is something wrong and there is NO reason to hurt their name by saying their product failed. i know exactly how much damage can be done on a message board and wont do that to an innocent business. "**** happens" is a motto i have lived by for a majority of my life and im not going to drag someone down with me unless it is necessary.[/QUOTE]
Drama. And if he managed a performance shop for 7 years he shouldn't need help with an issue like this.
Daryn i will not release the name of the spring company unless the company refuses to help us. i have been in this industry for many years (apart from managing a performance shop for 7 years i own a message board with 5k members, and moderate 3 others with over 170k members total) and refuse to hurt someones name regardless of what happens. at this point the manufacturer doesn't even know there is something wrong and there is NO reason to hurt their name by saying their product failed. i know exactly how much damage can be done on a message board and wont do that to an innocent business. "**** happens" is a motto i have lived by for a majority of my life and im not going to drag someone down with me unless it is necessary.[/QUOTE]
Drama. And if he managed a performance shop for 7 years he shouldn't need help with an issue like this.
11-21-2010, 07:47 PM
#19
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Because he's just trying to get an opinion in case he missed something. This might be hard for some guys to comprehend, like ssred and 2xls1 obviously, but he probably isn't perfect and might have forgotten something that would help him with his discussion with the manufacturer. If you are just gonna give smart *** remarks and call names then just move on to the next thread. Most of the comments were pretty on target for what you should cover with them though.
11-22-2010, 04:27 AM
#20
I would also include the installation tool in your list of things to have ready. Some of the claw type tools will scratch up the springs and can cause early failure, but not in a few miles. I usually set up a spread sheet to summarize the values requested by "racer7088" in his post #12. You may also want to measure the lift on the cam just to be sure you didn't get something you weren't expecting.