Heads/cam finished, but have issues
12-18-2010, 05:35 PM
#1
Heads/cam finished, but have issues Well the other day I finished my heads/cam swap and fired it up. It took a few times to get it started and once it did I heard some popping (which maybe back firing) and after a few minutes of idling, I noticed the drivers side cat was glowing orange. I shut the car off and let it sit over night. The next day I started it, it started fine but I still heard a popping noise. After I few minutes of idling, I check the cat again and it was not glowing. A few hours later I started it again and decided to drive it around my apartment complex. I was a few feet out of my parking spot when I stalled. I started the car again and put it back in the stop. When I went to go take the key out, it wouldnt turn all the way back to where the lines lines up so I could take it out. I had to force turn it backwards to get the key out.
Now when I put the key it, it wont even turn, no matter how hard you try to turn it, it wont turn. Also with the car off and not having to step on the brake, you can put the car in any gear, but it wont move.
Its an automatic with LS2 243 heads and an EPS 222/226 .596/.598 114 cam
Now when I put the key it, it wont even turn, no matter how hard you try to turn it, it wont turn. Also with the car off and not having to step on the brake, you can put the car in any gear, but it wont move.
Its an automatic with LS2 243 heads and an EPS 222/226 .596/.598 114 cam
12-19-2010, 07:49 AM
#4
TECH Addict
It sounds like your shifter linkage is not lined up properly.
Your park release servo is located under the shifter in the center console. If the shifter isn't fully forward it will not engage the lock on the servo. The servo will still work, but the lock wont line up and never engage. Try to put it in park and push the car with the e-brake off, if it rolls, your not lined up with your shifter linkage. Adjust accordingly. This issue will cause your ignition cylinder to hold the key and not allow your key to turn the ignition if you manage to get the key out.
I had this exact same problem with my Suburban and it was the linkage.
As far as the glowing cat goes, that is a serious (and most likely unrelated to your key) issue.
Your cat needs a certain amount of fuel to keep cool, that's why most vehicles will run richer than the 14.7:1 fuel to air ratio from the factory; GM actually programs the computers to run the car rich if the cat exceeds a certain temp. If your cat is glowing than you are most likely running to lean or you have an issue with your valve train (which can also cause the popping).
Another issue that can cause the popping is the crankshaft position sensor, if it has been reset or disconnected your engine wont know where the crank is positioned in relation to the cam for the firing order. This happened to my brothers 98 Camaro Z28 and eventually the computer ignored the issue and adjusted to run without it. We made it to the GM dealer and they needed a Tech2 Scanner to re-learn it. about $80-100.
Looking at the lift on your cam you maybe running into push rod length issues. Did you replace your push rods with a better measured set? Stock push rods on your cam could cause the problems your describing (minus the ignition/key issue). In another thread it was stated that a smaller base circle on your cam will require a new push rod length. My understanding is .600 lift cams typically have smaller base circles.
I hope I helped, these are only suggestions on to what could cause your issues. I could be way off base.
Your park release servo is located under the shifter in the center console. If the shifter isn't fully forward it will not engage the lock on the servo. The servo will still work, but the lock wont line up and never engage. Try to put it in park and push the car with the e-brake off, if it rolls, your not lined up with your shifter linkage. Adjust accordingly. This issue will cause your ignition cylinder to hold the key and not allow your key to turn the ignition if you manage to get the key out.
I had this exact same problem with my Suburban and it was the linkage.
As far as the glowing cat goes, that is a serious (and most likely unrelated to your key) issue.
Your cat needs a certain amount of fuel to keep cool, that's why most vehicles will run richer than the 14.7:1 fuel to air ratio from the factory; GM actually programs the computers to run the car rich if the cat exceeds a certain temp. If your cat is glowing than you are most likely running to lean or you have an issue with your valve train (which can also cause the popping).
Another issue that can cause the popping is the crankshaft position sensor, if it has been reset or disconnected your engine wont know where the crank is positioned in relation to the cam for the firing order. This happened to my brothers 98 Camaro Z28 and eventually the computer ignored the issue and adjusted to run without it. We made it to the GM dealer and they needed a Tech2 Scanner to re-learn it. about $80-100.
Looking at the lift on your cam you maybe running into push rod length issues. Did you replace your push rods with a better measured set? Stock push rods on your cam could cause the problems your describing (minus the ignition/key issue). In another thread it was stated that a smaller base circle on your cam will require a new push rod length. My understanding is .600 lift cams typically have smaller base circles.
I hope I helped, these are only suggestions on to what could cause your issues. I could be way off base.
Last edited by hrcslam; 12-19-2010 at 08:01 AM.
12-19-2010, 09:47 PM
#7
I have done this before and broke my ignition 
(> Gently shake the wheel back and forth and gently push the key forward wiggling it so slightly. Just be patient and it will unlock. I did this by shutting the car off in reverse and taking the key out.
(> Gently shake the wheel back and forth and gently push the key forward wiggling it so slightly. Just be patient and it will unlock. I did this by shutting the car off in reverse and taking the key out. Trending Topics
12-19-2010, 09:56 PM
#8
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Spray WD40 in the keyhole and slide the key in and out. I can almost guarantee it will fix the problem with the key getting stuck. Typical problem after car has sat for awhile. Mine did the same thing after I did a cam and parked it through winter. I had a new key cut first and it didn't help any. I was telling my buddy about needing a new ignition cylinder and he said his gfs Cavy did the same thing and told me to use WD40. It worked, never had another problem with it.
12-20-2010, 02:01 AM
#9
As far as the glowing cat goes, that is a serious (and most likely unrelated to your key) issue.
Your cat needs a certain amount of fuel to keep cool, that's why most vehicles will run richer than the 14.7:1 fuel to air ratio from the factory; GM actually programs the computers to run the car rich if the cat exceeds a certain temp. If your cat is glowing than you are most likely running to lean or you have an issue with your valve train (which can also cause the popping).
Another issue that can cause the popping is the crankshaft position sensor, if it has been reset or disconnected your engine wont know where the crank is positioned in relation to the cam for the firing order. This happened to my brothers 98 Camaro Z28 and eventually the computer ignored the issue and adjusted to run without it. We made it to the GM dealer and they needed a Tech2 Scanner to re-learn it. about $80-100.
Looking at the lift on your cam you maybe running into push rod length issues. Did you replace your push rods with a better measured set? Stock push rods on your cam could cause the problems your describing (minus the ignition/key issue). In another thread it was stated that a smaller base circle on your cam will require a new push rod length. My understanding is .600 lift cams typically have smaller base circles.
I hope I helped, these are only suggestions on to what could cause your issues. I could be way off base.
Your cat needs a certain amount of fuel to keep cool, that's why most vehicles will run richer than the 14.7:1 fuel to air ratio from the factory; GM actually programs the computers to run the car rich if the cat exceeds a certain temp. If your cat is glowing than you are most likely running to lean or you have an issue with your valve train (which can also cause the popping).
Another issue that can cause the popping is the crankshaft position sensor, if it has been reset or disconnected your engine wont know where the crank is positioned in relation to the cam for the firing order. This happened to my brothers 98 Camaro Z28 and eventually the computer ignored the issue and adjusted to run without it. We made it to the GM dealer and they needed a Tech2 Scanner to re-learn it. about $80-100.
Looking at the lift on your cam you maybe running into push rod length issues. Did you replace your push rods with a better measured set? Stock push rods on your cam could cause the problems your describing (minus the ignition/key issue). In another thread it was stated that a smaller base circle on your cam will require a new push rod length. My understanding is .600 lift cams typically have smaller base circles.
I hope I helped, these are only suggestions on to what could cause your issues. I could be way off base.
THE CAT DOES NOT USE FUEL TO STAY COOL, too much fuel or a rich condition causes the cat to glow red and overheat. You can NOT run the cat too lean, only the engine can run too lean and overheat the pistons and cylinder heads.
12-20-2010, 07:21 AM
#10
TECH Addict
Say WHAT?????? you need to NOT give tech advice!
THE CAT DOES NOT USE FUEL TO STAY COOL, too much fuel or a rich condition causes the cat to glow red and overheat. You can NOT run the cat too lean, only the engine can run too lean and overheat the pistons and cylinder heads.
THE CAT DOES NOT USE FUEL TO STAY COOL, too much fuel or a rich condition causes the cat to glow red and overheat. You can NOT run the cat too lean, only the engine can run too lean and overheat the pistons and cylinder heads.
First off, running lean will NOT cause a cat to overheat. However, GM DOES employ a fuel to air ratio RICHENING program to COOL the cat's down. It's called COT (Catalytic converter Over Temperature protection).
You are right in the instance that unburned fuel (stupid rich fuel to air ratio) making it to the cat's will make them run ridiculously hot (something close to 2200 degree's F) and the cat's will glow.
Funny thing is, while I was wrong for saying he's running lean. The COT that GM employ's could actually be causing the too rich burn and over heating the cat's.
) A COT delete could do wonders.
Originally Posted by from Diablo Sport
COT Protection Off Road use only!
Catalytic Overtemp Protection (COT) is used to add fuel to cool down the catalytic converters and it should be disabled only when the catalytic converters are removed. The adding of fuel in this strategy reduces power output. Disabling this strategy when the off-road exhaust is installed will allow the motor to make peak power without the hinerance of the COT strategy. The following strategies are some of the various methods used by GM and will vary depending on the vehicle application:
COT Enable Temp
The temperature when to enable the COT process, set this high(1200) to disable it.
COT ON/OFF
Switch to turn COT on or off, set this high to off to disable COT.
Catalytic Overtemp Protection (COT) is used to add fuel to cool down the catalytic converters and it should be disabled only when the catalytic converters are removed. The adding of fuel in this strategy reduces power output. Disabling this strategy when the off-road exhaust is installed will allow the motor to make peak power without the hinerance of the COT strategy. The following strategies are some of the various methods used by GM and will vary depending on the vehicle application:
COT Enable Temp
The temperature when to enable the COT process, set this high(1200) to disable it.
COT ON/OFF
Switch to turn COT on or off, set this high to off to disable COT.
So, where I was wrong for saying the cats needs a "certain amount of fuel" to keep cool, I was absolutely right saying GM uses a rich fuel mixture to cool the cat's down.
I find it offensive you picked one thing out of my post that was inaccurate and ran with it in an aggressive manner "you need NOT give tech advise", while the rest of the post is completely plausible to his issues.
I'll take my apology now.
Last edited by hrcslam; 12-20-2010 at 08:14 AM.
12-20-2010, 11:31 AM
#14
TECH Addict
No **** Sherlock. Adding fuel to the CAT will not cool it down, I've already admitted to this error of mine.
However, GM does RICHEN the air to fuel ratio to cool the cats down. How does this work you ask? By richening the fuel to air ratio the combustion chamber is cooled down (something you obviously knew), the EGT is lowered in effect. This lowers cat temps. Weird right. GM engineered this, not me.
Now knowing that GM did this COT crap, when an engine is modified and COT not adjusted or removed COT can actually cause the engine to add more fuel than the combustion can burn, which results in (what you said) fuel making it to that cat and heating it up.
In either case what I pointed out in my first post was relevant in regards to air to fuel ratio's and over heating cat's. I was just 180 degrees out.
Thanks for pointing that out. Put the heat gun down.
12-20-2010, 02:02 PM
#16
TECH Senior Member
There is a difference between a rich burn and a misfire:
rich burn: there is no oxygen remaining, a small amount unburnt fuel remains (this has a cooling effect on the combustion chamber and reduces EGT), the cat uses residual stored oxygen to oxidize this relatively small amount of fuel.
misfire: all of the oxygen remains, all of the fuel remains, this is a large amount of fuel which the cat oxidizes with the large amount of oxygen.
rich burn: there is no oxygen remaining, a small amount unburnt fuel remains (this has a cooling effect on the combustion chamber and reduces EGT), the cat uses residual stored oxygen to oxidize this relatively small amount of fuel.
misfire: all of the oxygen remains, all of the fuel remains, this is a large amount of fuel which the cat oxidizes with the large amount of oxygen.
12-20-2010, 02:13 PM
#17
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i would say clogged cats if it was glowing, another thing for a starting issue, make sure your ground straps are connected on the back of the driver side head. Can cause some weird **** to happen. Also looked for pinched wires or damaged/ misaligned shift linkage as stated above
Last edited by CamaroZ28_LS1; 12-20-2010 at 02:19 PM.
12-20-2010, 05:21 PM
#18
running lean can cause a misfire and will cause the headers and cat to glow red. Usually its just the headers that glow right off the head. He needs to check for a severe vacuum leak...ie the brake booster hose. As far as the key problem goes...sounds like a problem with the transmission linkage.
