Chevrolet Performance LSX Challenge Series and LSX Shootout - Real Street Rules - 2011

Any idea on changes and when these may be posted? Thanks.

Any idea on changes and when these may be posted? Thanks.

As I posted elsewhere,

Working on the rules now. Should go out for approval at beginning of the week.

All motor and drag radial are done. Have been sent out for premiinary apporoval. Hope to get the Real Street finished on Monday and out for preliminary approval.

Robin

Any idea on changes and when these may be posted? Thanks.

And yes a lot of changes in Real Street. With a couple of races under our belt we are making sweeping changes.

Oh but the tire rule will not change!

Robin

And yes a lot of changes in Real Street. With a couple of races under our belt we are making sweeping changes.

Oh but the tire rule will not change!

Robin

Sooooo..... let me guess?

They will be closer to the NMCA's new 275 DR rules?

subscribing!

subscribing!

:secret2: me too

Sooooo..... let me guess?

They will be closer to the NMCA's new 275 DR rules?

My bet is it will be a slower class than X275.

My bet is it will be a slower class than X275.

I hope so, otherwise they'll be cars running below their cert and I really can't agree a 25.3 car
with funny car bars belong in a True Street Class. (not this one anyway)

I hope so, otherwise they'll be cars running below their cert and I really can't agree a 25.3 car
with funny car bars belong in a True Street Class. (not this one anyway)

This isn't a street class... Period.

"Real Street" is just a name - like "Street Boss" or "Pro Street"

I hope so, otherwise they'll be cars running below their cert and I really can't agree a 25.3 car
with funny car bars belong in a True Street Class. (not this one anyway)

You wont say that when they tell you your blower is to big. LOL !!

25.5 can go 7.50 you dont need a 25.3.
And I heard they let everyone run fast with 10pt cages last year anyway.

Now that they have a X275 class I think you will see the rules tighten up a bit. Maybe a bottom 9 high 8 second class.

Who really knows though with "3 guys sitting in a room drinking scotch and water" making up rules. LOL !

You wont say that when they tell you your blower is to big.

Unsubcribing, I got Real street mixed up with True Street. :confused:

Any updates from the officials for 2011?

Any updates from the officials for 2011?

They said in about a week.

Need to get ready for RS275 class.....Would like to know the rules soon, Only 60+ days away need to know something!!!!!

Hey Paul, shoot me an email sucka

I would love to see some RULES!!!!

After thinking about this class all week, I come to the conclusion that for a class like this to ever have a full field, it's gotta give more guys a chance to have a bite at the apple.

We know Keith and Adam's car were formidable at the LSX race last fall, and they were at the LS Fest too. Keith has moved on to Outlaw Radial, and I'm not sure what Adam is up to though at one point he had his motor for sale on the bullet. The amount of fast guys who run < 8.40 and 5.3's is pretty small compared to the guys who run slower... it's just a big pyramid of folks and their cars... 5-6 outlaw radial guys, 10 super fast nitrous guys, and 60-75 guys in the mid 8's, and so forth and so on.

I suspect that to ever see a real field of cars and to not play the game of "how come so and so is not here" I think the class will need to be inspire more of the guys out there to come out and try.

Edit: And I think if you look at my list of the quickest cars

http://www.planetlsx.com/vehicles/190_Quickest_LS_Cars_Of_All_Time_/147

It's pretty clear to me that we have a pretty good handle as to who's out there especially those guys going 8.40 and quicker.... Not a big pile of folks. I've even noted on the list if a car is no longer race or in the case of some, has been sold overseas.

Let's see some real racing, real rounds. Let's see some full fields.

The powers that be dont want to listen, as best as most of us can tell John

And dammit you forgot me! :)

LOL if you are not on the list Jeff, email me at John@Motorsports-Media.com with your info I'd be glad to add you. I still have to add that 9.0x TBSS too.

Taking your car as an example, your MPH shows the possibility for 8.8.

The amount of fast guys who run < 8.40 and 5.3's is pretty small compared to the guys who run slower... it's just a big pyramid of folks and their cars... 5-6 outlaw radial guys, 10 super fast nitrous guys, and 60-75 guys in the mid 8's, and so forth and so on.


It took you all week to figure that out? LOL !! (just messin with ya)

The same can be said for EVERY SINGLE car ever made.
Plenty more low 9 second mustangs then 7 second ones.
The slower you get the more of them there are. :bang:

Does that mean we also need a heads up 12 second class also? Because there are WAY more of them then there are 9 second cars and it cost alot less to build them and you dont need a high dollar cage , lic. , and saftey equip.

So how far do you take it?

I'd like to take it to mid 13's jk.

I think the folks pumping money into the race and classes all want car count in the double digits.

After thinking about this class all week, I come to the conclusion that for a class like this to ever have a full field, it's gotta give more guys a chance to have a bite at the apple.

We know Keith and Adam's car were formidable at the LSX race last fall, and they were at the LS Fest too. Keith has moved on to Outlaw Radial, and I'm not sure what Adam is up to though at one point he had his motor for sale on the bullet. The amount of fast guys who run < 8.40 and 5.3's is pretty small compared to the guys who run slower... it's just a big pyramid of folks and their cars... 5-6 outlaw radial guys, 10 super fast nitrous guys, and 60-75 guys in the mid 8's, and so forth and so on.

I suspect that to ever see a real field of cars and to not play the game of "how come so and so is not here" I think the class will need to be inspire more of the guys out there to come out and try.

Edit: And I think if you look at my list of the quickest cars

http://www.planetlsx.com/vehicles/190_Quickest_LS_Cars_Of_All_Time_/147

It's pretty clear to me that we have a pretty good handle as to who's out there especially those guys going 8.40 and quicker.... Not a big pile of folks. I've even noted on the list if a car is no longer race or in the case of some, has been sold overseas.

Let's see some real racing, real rounds. Let's see some full fields.

Now you are talking John.:chug:

ATV, what you are saying makes sense, but only to a point.
The 12 second car guys tend to be hobbyists and are not hard core enough to take on the travel and probably don't have trailers and all that.
Also it would be impossible to make a 12 or even 11 second Heads Up class, because you would need to have 4000 lb bone stock cars with stock air filters. Who has those?
Now if we were racing Hondas...

Does that mean we also need a heads up 12 second class also?:wavey: Let's do it! :D ;)

And I think if you look at my list of the quickest cars

http://www.planetlsx.com/vehicles/190_Quickest_LS_Cars_Of_All_Time_/147


John,
Please Update
You have me listed as #187
I have gone quicker & faster since then:
9.622 @ 142.32 on 11/13/2010 @ E-town.

And dropping...:D
Thanks

Now you are talking John.:chug:

ATV, what you are saying makes sense, but only to a point.
The 12 second car guys tend to be hobbyists and are not hard core enough to take on the travel and probably don't have trailers and all that.
Also it would be impossible to make a 12 or even 11 second Heads Up class, because you would need to have 4000 lb bone stock cars with stock air filters. Who has those?
Now if we were racing Hondas...

don't forget the 300 shot used :engarde:

All this Real Street talking has got me looking at rollers again...

Sure would be nice to see some of the other guys I know who run mid to high 8's come out and race. It would be cool to see some guys like Steve Hopkins out who have some really nice cars who we haven't seen for a couple years at an LSX Shootout race.

This is exactly the point I was wanting to get across. I think the list speaks volumes about what is out there in the most numbers. If NMCA wants a field of cars in a RS class the writing is on the wall.

I would think the 8.80 - 9.30 et's should be the target for the rule writing. You know how it goes in this sport, wouldn't take long for someone to surpass the expectations of the rule writers. With a 4 race series, the rules for all power adders will need to be pretty damn equal to keep attendance strong throughout the year. If they are off, the first race will show it.

Getting the right sizes figured out with the turbos, superchargers, and N20 will be the trick for parity. Of course the weights are going to be critical. Don't under estimate the N20 combos. A 440" engine with a 250 shot would surprise alot of people at 3100 lbs and is capable of running in the 155-157 mph range. There may need to be a cubic inch to jet size rule on the N20 cars to keep them equal with the average turbo and s/c setups most of these cars run. Pilling the N20 system is alot cheaper and easier than a 'non-slip' Procharger drive set up for a F1A or C in a F-Body car or a 'billet' wheel 'trick of the week' Garret race turbo.

Example: A gear driven F1A vs. an 8 rib belt driven F1A will smash an 8 rib set up all to pieces at MAX impeller speed in terms of HP due to belt slip.

I am pretty certain the 76mm or F1A would not equal a BIG inch N20 set up at the same weight for et's. The 76mm already went 152 in a butt mount config in the warm air (not sure about the I/C setup), enough for high 8's. I don't know the weight of the turbo car that went the 152 at Gateway either, but there have been F1A cars that have gone 152 as well.

440" N20 combos would go strong mid 8's with good LS7 style heads and a 250 hit at the right weight. Combos like this may need less jet or more weight.

Maybe prohibit billet wheel turbos and supercharger gear drives or penalize them with weight for parity. Just thinking out loud.

I really do believe this is the class the NMCA would be happiest with for overall participation in all regions were the series is going to be held. These cars are everywhere in this configuration or close to it. Guys running in the 8.40's could certainly scale back and run their combos easier to partake.

I would like to see this class happen and would certainly participate and know a couple others who would as well and be regulars at the series. I hope to see things swing this way for the sake of the LS community, racers, and parts suppliers. How many CV heads were sold last year vs. catherdral ports or LS7's? How about Mast (PI) 4150/4500 intakes vs Super Vics or FAST 102's, How about LSX/RHS blocks vs production LS2's, 3's, etc. :D You see my point.



After thinking about this class all week, I come to the conclusion that for a class like this to ever have a full field, it's gotta give more guys a chance to have a bite at the apple.

We know Keith and Adam's car were formidable at the LSX race last fall, and they were at the LS Fest too. Keith has moved on to Outlaw Radial, and I'm not sure what Adam is up to though at one point he had his motor for sale on the bullet. The amount of fast guys who run < 8.40 and 5.3's is pretty small compared to the guys who run slower... it's just a big pyramid of folks and their cars... 5-6 outlaw radial guys, 10 super fast nitrous guys, and 60-75 guys in the mid 8's, and so forth and so on.

I suspect that to ever see a real field of cars and to not play the game of "how come so and so is not here" I think the class will need to be inspire more of the guys out there to come out and try.

Edit: And I think if you look at my list of the quickest cars

http://www.planetlsx.com/vehicles/190_Quickest_LS_Cars_Of_All_Time_/147

It's pretty clear to me that we have a pretty good handle as to who's out there especially those guys going 8.40 and quicker.... Not a big pile of folks. I've even noted on the list if a car is no longer race or in the case of some, has been sold overseas.

Let's see some real racing, real rounds. Let's see some full fields.

Well I think from the stakeholder's POV they want to see 16-32 cars at the races. Let's assume that 16-20 entries are a good start. So if we had 20 cars at the races, and assumed that only 25% were repeats during the year, you'd need at least 60 new guys giving it a try throughout the year. Sure someone can come up with a better formula, but it doesn't really matter if you take my example and move the repeats up or down... The point is that to have 50-80 cars showing up during the year the class needs to have easily 2-3 times that many folks interested in the class.

I keep running into longtime attendees like Al (ZSSman or whatever you go by)... I think he is another example of the guys who love this scene, but can't afford $8K cylinder heads and $4K dry sumps.

We have a solid core of folks who like LS racing, I've seen you guys going back to 2000 at the races, and that core needs to GROW.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that something is figured out by next week as I know some of you who have called me are in a holding pattern.

Best of luck Jeff!

The 76mm already went 152 in a butt mount config in the warm air (not sure about the I/C setup), enough for high 8's. I don't know the weight of the turbo car that went the 152 at Gateway either, but there have been F1A cars that have gone 152 as well.

Butt mount... makes it sound so ghey. :bang: Its already on the wrong end of the car dont make me feel worse about it :D

Butt mount... makes it sound so ghey. :bang: Its already on the wrong end of the car dont make me feel worse about it :D

Allright I'll refer to it as a rear-mount if that makes you feel better, just let us know the weight of that thing?

All this Real Street talking has got me looking at rollers again...

Sure would be nice to see some of the other guys I know who run mid to high 8's come out and race. It would be cool to see some guys like Steve Hopkins out who have some really nice cars who we haven't seen for a couple years at an LSX Shootout race.

I really like the rules and it will give the guys something to work with for sure. Steve Hopkins has a strong car but he also has canted valve heads.

Allright I'll refer to it as a rear-mount if that makes you feel better, just let us know the weight of that thing?

I just say it has junk in the trunk, and junk it is. About 3275 I think it was there

I think Jeff's (grannyss) combo shows the potential for a 76mm to do some things in RS.

PSJ I don't know if GrannySShifting has been faster or not, but I remember him posting something like a 6.0@120 pass. You know as well as I do that that ET nor MPH is even remotely close to the times ran by previous winners of Real Street. The winning cars from the past Real Street class have been running low 5's in the 1/8 and low 8's in the 1/4.

For a 76mm combo to run the number at the weight it would need to be like Josh said earlier...Precision 76mm Billet Wheel turbo, small cubes to maximize the airflow characteristics of the turbo and a completely purpose built car. This car will have to run all out on each pass and that will stress the motor like nothing else. The Va Speed 358 cube LS would be a perfect motor for this class and that turbo would match it very well.

There are some ramblings in the KY-Turbo shop, nothing for sure at this point, but this would be a great class to try and get into, but a little late to get a car built, tuned, tested, and race ready by the first race.

Why not make the nitrous guys be issued nitrous jets at each race? Maybe I missed that part, but I mean if you're gonna limit turbo size, why not limit jet size and even then make sure each jet passes inspection? That's the simplest thing, but you all know as well as I do that people are known to drill out the jet size, but keep the jet since it meets specs. Just food for thought maybe?

Back in the day when we had the stock cube all motor class those were the days. I remember seeing Futral, Thunder, Jason 99 T/A, Texas Speed, and more battle it out. There will always be people pushing the limit of the rules, but why not make a stock cube class that the average person can have a car that can compete.

Why not make the nitrous guys be issued nitrous jets at each race? Maybe I missed that part, but I mean if you're gonna limit turbo size, why not limit jet size and even then make sure each jet passes inspection? That's the simplest thing, but you all know as well as I do that people are known to drill out the jet size, but keep the jet since it meets specs. Just food for thought maybe?

They are easily checked with a pin gauge.

Atv's right, BUT I've seen guys pay a TON of money for jets that flow more than others of a similar size would

A ton of $$$$ for Jets that flow. A ton of $$$ for a Billet Wheel 76mm Turbo that has the guts to make the power. Its a Tone of $$$$ no matter how we go about it.

We will check nitrous jets on a regular basis. We do it all the time with our regular classes. Once checked they will be sealed for the event. They can be checked at any time during the event sealed or not. We will also varify cubic inch, turbo, supercharger sizes and any other rule. ALL national records will be VARIFIED also with a a line by line of the rule book. Make sure you bring tools. Welcome to heads up class racing. All of this is necessary to make sure everyone is playing by the rules.

I'm sure if a nitrous cars kicks major ass that some jets will be checked since it would take all of ten minutes.

Is Jeff's ET in his sig his best run with a 76mm or something else?

Brian @ KYPT maybe you are not following this as closely as you could be?

The speed of the N2O cars from the 2010 Real Street event is irrelevant.
The NMCA changed the rules.
The max N2O jet is now .026 on a DP. (A 200 shot)
Last year it was unlimited.

You don't have to worry about running low 8's.
Concentrate on low 9's high 8's.

I don't think this class is going to be as fast as everyone is crying about.
The potential to be fast is there, but you would have to build a purpose built car.

The NMCA always Tech inspects the cars.
Lonni warned all of us, of this, at the event in 2010.

Brian @ KYPT maybe you are not following this as closely as you could be?

The speed of the N2O cars from the 2010 Real Street event is irrelevant.
The NMCA changed the rules.
The max N2O jet is now .026 on a DP. (A 200 shot)
Last year it was unlimited.

You don't have to worry about running low 8's.
Concentrate on low 9's high 8's.

I don't think this class is going to be as fast as everyone is crying about.
The potential to be fast is there, but you would have to build a purpose built car.

The NMCA always Tech inspects the cars.
Lonni warned all of us, of this, at the event in 2010.

I ran well into the 8s on the correct jet size of this class.... and my converter /gear / tire combo was all jet up for 2 kits:D

I ran well into the 8s on the correct jet size of this class.... and my converter /gear / tire combo was all jet up for 2 kits:D

Did you meet all of the other rules?
Were you at the legal weight?

Would you adapt your car to meet these rules?
Would you remove the second kit to race this class?
Were you at the LSX Shootout in St. Louis?

Most importantly...are you going to run this series?

It doesn't matter if you can run 7's, if you aren't going to run the series?

Did you meet all of the other rules?
Were you at the legal weight?

Would you adapt your car to meet these rules?
Would you remove the second kit to race this class?
Were you at the LSX Shootout in St. Louis?

Most importantly...are you going to run this series?

It doesn't matter if you can run 7's, if you aren't going to run the series?

I was VERY close to the legal weight.... this yea i will have to add some weight after shedding some pounds. yes i will remove the 2nd kit. Im going to try and make all 4 Races.. I'm waiting on NMCA Jeff to get a hold of me
i want to make sure im 100% legal before making a 20hr drive.

Anonymous you must not follow drag racing as much as you think...take a look at bfg street radial...Jessie Coulter had a 376 cubic inch ls with this jet rule and ran at weight well into the 8's on BFG drag radials...not the good radials most are now running on. The real street class is a PURPOSE BUILT car for that class...if it's not then it won't meet the rules.

Turbo cars are the outlaw radial class.

In R/S, they are the underdog.

Sometimes not every class is friendly to one adder vs. another.

Okay back to watching NFL

There are some ramblings in the KY-Turbo shop, nothing for sure at this point, but this would be a great class to try and get into, but a little late to get a car built, tuned, tested, and race ready by the first race.

Rambling, Rambling, Rambling..... Gonna have to take the cover off the Formula and start stripping and selling the un-need parts. I guess it's cool to be the underdog. Hell the car wont be ready till the end of thr year at best. Hopefully the rules stay Consistant.

so stock front frame rails. That mean we can't cut off where the stock bumper support used to bolt on? or you guys trying to say No tube front end, and the k member has to bolt onto the stock frame rails? I need some confirmation on this rule so I can get this taken care of if need be.

I have decided to put the glide in the car to make these races. So i am putting things in motion to make the first race.

So count me in!

The complete stock frame rails need to be intact.

The complete stock frame rails need to be intact.

ok, So i will have to put back on what I had taken off? and that would make it legal?

thanks for the quick response

Jeff is a pin on hatch allowed?

ok, So i will have to put back on what I had taken off? and that would make it legal?

thanks for the quick response

My frame rails are just boxed with an impact bar for safety they are not cut way back. There is no way in hell im changing it. THERE are some very STUPID RULES!!!!! that will kill the car count. I could see if someone moves the location of them up or down or what ever but they need to clarify the rule.

My frame rails are just boxed with an impact bar for safety they are not cut way back. There is no way in hell im changing it. THERE are some very STUPID RULES!!!!! that will kill the car count

Funny they complain about car counts but have stupid rules like this.

Cutting 3-4" of the end of your frame rails, stock steering colum covers :confused: ... What performance advantages do these things give a car that does or doesnt have them?

Asking Politely for a rules change will go a long way, being disrespectful will not. Bashing the rules committee by saying the rules are STUPID is not the way to get rules swayed in your direction. I'm not waisting my time with people like this.


As long as the hatch is securely fastened then yes you can pin the hatch.

Funny they complain about car counts but have stupid rules like this.

Cutting 3-4" of the end of your frame rails, stock steering colum covers :confused: ... What performance advantages do these things give a car that does or doesnt have them?

LOL i cut a 1/2 in off and boxed it..... I can see they dont want any cut up cars but there are some other gray area rules ..... like nothing about radiator supports. which is 10x more visible ... I already started tweaking my car for this i planed on making all 4 races

Asking Politely for a rules change will go a long way, being disrespectful will not. Bashing the rules committee by saying the rules are STUPID is not the way to get rules swayed in your direction. I'm not waisting my time with people like this.


As long as the hatch is securely fastened then yes you can pin the hatch.

I did not bash the rule committee i said the rule is stupid...... I have 2 car that fit these rules very well all but the frame rail rule. I Guess if your not wasting your time with this I will not be wasting my time on making the 4 Races plenty of local stuff. Thought it would be pretty cool to support the series

It would be great to have you but you still have to fit our rules in order to race the class stupid or not.

It would be great to have you but you still have to fit our rules in order to race the class stupid or not.

This rule is limiting ALOT of people i have got a few PMs about it.... very common that people trim the front rails.... but there are no rules about the radiator supports just doesn't add up if you guys are looking for a OEM look

Asking Politely for a rules change will go a long way, being disrespectful will not. Bashing the rules committee by saying the rules are STUPID is not the way to get rules swayed in your direction. I'm not waisting my time with people like this.


So you have to kiss the rules committee's ass to get the rules "swayed in your direction" ?

If the rule in question can be easliy removed my someone "politely" asking and you know it is limiting car counts why the hell is it in the rules?

Talk about a Napoleon complex. :eyes:

I'm not going to get in an arguement on here about this. That is not what I meant by that at all. Being polite and not being rude is the point i was trying to get across. Again the rules are final if you car fits your more than welcome to race with us.

PM sent for clarifications, Answer? Thanks.

It would be great to have you but you still have to fit our rules in order to race the class stupid or not.

Wow... Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's the RACER'S class. As much as we need you guys to put these things on, you need us too. Rules that limit the car count for no reason don't advance the series.

You could amend that rule to simply say "All cars must have stock front frame rails, with the exception of modifications of portions of the frame horns forward of the stock k-member mounting points."

Asking Politely for a rules change will go a long way, being disrespectful will not. Bashing the rules committee by saying the rules are STUPID is not the way to get rules swayed in your direction. I'm not waisting my time with people like this.


As long as the hatch is securely fastened then yes you can pin the hatch.

I'm not going to get in an arguement on here about this. That is not what I meant by that at all. Being polite and not being rude is the point i was trying to get across. Again the rules are final if you car fits your more than welcome to race with us.

Man you change Pretty quick.... Your rules make zero sense.... i can have factory frame rails but hack the radiator support out and so on and still race ... dose not really go with what you pmed me "don't want hacked up cars at our event" Ask a poll and see how many cars are effect by this.

Wow... Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's the RACER'S class. As much as we need you guys to put these things on, you need us too. Rules that limit the car count for no reason don't advance the series.

You could amend that rule to simply say "All cars must have stock front frame rails, with the exception of modifications of portions of the frame horns forward of the stock k-member mounting points."

EXACTLY!!!!!! Like i said .... If you cant mod the frame rails forward of the K member them you should not be able to do anything to the front radiator support

Would like to confirm this is legal.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/Burkhartradmount.png

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/Burkhartradmount2.png

I see no indication it is not, it 'bolts on' to the front of the frame rails. Just need clarification from the rule committee.

Thanks.

I will be polite. Please dont take this as me being a Smart Ass. I am planning out the build of my own 2002 Formula.

Can we plaese request a Simple rule modification to allow the Front frame rail to be trimmed and boxed and braced in a professional manner as to add an added level of safety to out race cars?

Can We also get clarification for the above mentioned Core support Mods needed to stand our radiators up Vertical as to allow room for proper Turbo, Radiator, and Fan Placement?

Neigther of the above request benifit performance in any wayand are easy changes to made. Thay simpily allow us as the builders/owners of the cars to outfit out cars in the best possible manner to perform properly, at full potnetial, and most of all safley.

We as Shop Owners and Racers are looking to boost the car counts for the NMCA/LSx series in the best possible way for Us the Racer, You the NMCA, and most of al the Spectator.

Very well put Josh.

I know I have read some rules(different classes and such) that state stock mounting locations for front suspenion must be maintained, anything foward can be modified.

Like he said, it makes our cars safer, and a little bit less of a hassle to build and assemble.

Please think about the rule, and give us some more reason other than "we dont want hacked up cars at our event"

thanks for your time.

Anonymous you must not follow drag racing as much as you think...take a look at bfg street radial...Jessie Coulter had a 376 cubic inch ls with this jet rule and ran at weight well into the 8's on BFG drag radials...not the good radials most are now running on. The real street class is a PURPOSE BUILT car for that class...if it's not then it won't meet the rules.

Brian, I followed Street Radial closer than anyone.
Yeah Jessie with the third gen camaro...
I have been watching it closely since before it was Cheap Street with the claimer rules etc...

What is your point?
The Street Radial class leader and 2010 champ Mike Fratena has gone 8.54 @ 165 mph.
With a 76mm Turbo!
Your a Turbo guy aren't you?
You are complaining about the N2O rules, but the NMCA just pulled back on them?

This class was almost a Nitrous Only class last year.

What more do you want them to do?
A 200 shot is very conservative compared to what was allowed last year.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here?

Guy's what I think is being missed here with the ask nicely deal is this...

These rules are very, very hard to put together.
It's not as simple as you might think.

I have been involved with rules packages before and I have see threads go to 600 posts, over something as simple as allowing or not allowing a two-step in a class.

These Real Street rules were already delayed because of competing interests.
I am sure it involved everyone from GM Performance Parts, Holly, NMCA, Robin L, Pro Stock John, etc...

Then to turn around and insult Jeff and the NMCA and their rules is just not necessary.

I cannot tell you the exact reason why they have this front frame rule, but I am sure it is there for a reason.
Believe me if that rule wasn't there then some other guy would be in here saying "well how come you can modify the front of the frame and not the back of the frame" etc...
It never ends.
They have to draw the line somewhere.
So I am guessing they are saying, no modified frames?

Charlie, I know you, race with you and know you are a good guy. (with a killer motor):nod:
But don't miss represent yourself by insulting on NMCA Jeff.
No different than Barry would want to be insulted about the QTP Series.
They both put a lot of effort into these programs.

I understand your frustration, believe me.

Guys, The formal way to request a rules change is not on LS1Tech either.
You have to send it to the NMCA.
That has been posted on this forum many times over the past few years.

Ultimately it is not up to NMCA Jeff anyway.
Complain to Charlie Harmon at the NMCA.
He makes the final call.

So asking someone like NMCA Jeff nicely may in fact pay you some dividends.
Then at least you would have someone with some influence fighting on your behalf.
Who is going to to backup/support someone that is disrespectful towards you?

Lets try to keep these discussions respectful.

Just some words of wisdom guys, take it or leave it.

Jeff from NMCA is over NMRA and other stuff too, so I'm sure he's reading this stuff when he has a chance.

I highly encourage guys to email him to get quicker responses. He can reply from the road, this guy is at a track doing tech about every weekend.

All i said was the rule was stupid no need to get all bent out of shape. The NMCA needs to open there eyes this rule is going to kill the car count. Like others said there is zero advantage of doing this. I'm 99.9% sure the rules will not change nor will i build a car for a series that the rules change every year. Looks like i will just go back to the 8.50 index stuff

What is the intent for this frame rule?

Hey anonymous can you shoot me an email to john@motorsports-media.com I have a question for you on something else... I don't use PM"s on here. thx.

Best way to talk to Jeff and get the quickest response is to email him:

"Jeff Conley" <jconley@promediapub.com>,

He does not have regular access to the web with his traveling but can email from the road.

If you guys are talking about "Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame" this is me talking but I think the bigger point is they don't want folks to modify the subframes, I think more to do with mods right around the engine for exhaust clearance or something like that. But ask Jeff.

Rules are never perfect. Nothing is. I can tell you from my experience once they are set for the year they are set for the year. Doesn't make it right and doesn't make it wrong. It just is what it is. The rules committee doesn't just make up the rules without doing research on the top cars/combo's from the previous year. I got a call on my combo specifics and the rules were changed to slow it down. That tells me they want to include more cars. I wouldn't bash an organization that just went from 1 race to 4 a year personally. Hope to see everyone at the track!

Best way to talk to Jeff and get the quickest response is to email him:

"Jeff Conley" <jconley@promediapub.com>,

He does not have regular access to the web with his traveling but can email from the road.

If you guys are talking about "Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame" this is me talking but I think the bigger point is they don't want folks to modify the subframes, I think more to do with mods right around the engine for exhaust clearance or something like that. But ask Jeff.

I pmed him and got a respons that was very gray. " We(gm performance parts included) don't want hacked up cars at our event that's why that rule is there.The rule states unaltered frame rails required so that's what you will have to have to race." Sent a pm back and got no respons. I called the NMCA last friday and no one could give me a yes or no awnser. they need to get there SHIT toghter.

Al email me at john@motorsports-media.com, I had some follow-up questions.

There have been a few posts that have been spam around here lately. I have reported them to the admins

will you super size mine?LOL

:D

rules are rules. I want to race so I am going to change my car around to fit into the rules...

even having a chance at the money is a great thing, I know several people who have raced and won championships and some companies didnt pay out, that stuff happens.

Do people want to race these classes for a living? cause I know i cant, wish I could.

I have no complaints. I actually think your contingency deal is awesome. To each his own I guess.

As far as NMCA's involvement for the LS crowd I think it's great what they do and hope it continues to grow.

BTW. I really dig a #13 combo at McDonald's also. YUM!!

Looks like some cool changes in Real Street for this year, good luck guys!!

Kurt

I would like to come spend a few days in the nmca office. sounds like fun, i can pay for my own food and such... that be easy. haha

SO do i just start complaining and being a dick?

ALSO I had a few questions on the way things are worded in the real street rule. just wanting to clear a few things up... so can we start to focus on those questions in the sticky? some of us are trying to get our projects underway.

thanks
Charlie

I'm sorry, but can someone that ACTUALLY raced with us complain?? Maybe one of the guys or gals that won an event...or how about someone that won one of the THOUSANDS of dollars in prizes at the LSX Party??? Speaking of which, were the free food and drinks not to your liking???No complaints here, :) I didn't even win anything at the Early Bird party and I still had an awesome time, loved the BBQ pork. :D
Thanks once again to you guys for putting on a very well organized weekend of racing. :cheers:





I have no complaints. I actually think your contingency deal is awesome. To each his own I guess.

As far as NMCA's involvement for the LS crowd I think it's great what they do and hope it continues to grow.:werd: I agree. :nod:

Wow... Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's the RACER'S class. As much as we need you guys to put these things on, you need us too. Rules that limit the car count for no reason don't advance the series.

You could amend that rule to simply say "All cars must have stock front frame rails, with the exception of modifications of portions of the frame horns forward of the stock k-member mounting points."

This must have gotten lost in the shuffle. Could I get a response to this?

What is the point of not allowing cut frame horns? Not wanting "hacked up cars" does not, in my and many other folks' eyes, seem like a fair answer. You can't see it, it doesn't impact safety, etc.

Please either support races and classes or move on. Let's save the bandwidth for the guys who need to figure out some small issues to make it work.

Please either support races and classes or move on. Let's save the bandwidth for the guys who need to figure out some small issues to make it work.

I'm trying to support the races. I've already stated in either this thread or the Holley rules thread that I'll show to a couple of the events regardless of the Real Street rules and run true street if I have to.

I just don't understand the inflexability here and am trying to get a sense of why the NMCA is so up in arms (other than ATV and Shiz's banter).

all tech questions concerning any of the LSX classes need to be sent to jconley@ promediapub.com thanks.

Brian @ KYPT maybe you are not following this as closely as you could be?

The speed of the N2O cars from the 2010 Real Street event is irrelevant.
The NMCA changed the rules.
The max N2O jet is now .026 on a DP. (A 200 shot)
Last year it was unlimited.

You don't have to worry about running low 8's.
Concentrate on low 9's high 8's.

I don't think this class is going to be as fast as everyone is crying about.
The potential to be fast is there, but you would have to build a purpose built car.

The NMCA always Tech inspects the cars.
Lonni warned all of us, of this, at the event in 2010.

Just so you know, they ran 8.40's this year...far from your prediction of high 8's low 9's.

One car went 8.4-8.5, everyone else was in the range.

One car went 8.4-8.5, everyone else was in the range.

And you guys never checked the jets on that car :gtfo:

To my knowledge that is incorrect, however, that is a matter for the NMCA. I know they did a tear-down at the LSX Shootout of that car and all of the others in the class.

first Ive heard of it... I read alot of people bitching about no one checking it. The nmca need to open the rules up to get more cars like
Allow Carbon Fiber doors..... as long as there painted to match car and stock appearing. Who cares that there c/f there is a min weight rule. Allow Modified sub frames from the radiator forward so that people with different radiators and fuel cells can compete

I know for sure the nitrous jets were checked at Holley LS Fest Iand they were also checked at LSX Shootout.

I agree with SSP though...why not allow things to get cars to the weight so long as they look stock appearing? I know the real idea for Real Street was/is not where the cars are at now. When Dr. Jamie Meyers was talking on the live feed from Georgia he said the Real Street class was for basic head/cam/intake with a single power adder. LOL...this class is so far from what he said, it's not even funny.

Open up the rules some this year and let's hope we see more cars this year!

Brian did I read a few post back were you said that Jessie's car had a 376 in it when he was racing the BFG Street Radial class?

Cody I'm not sure on the exact cubic inch. I always thought it was a LSX 376 because he had the valve covers lol...I know it was an iron block now though and had TFS heads and I think around 14:1 compression with limited camshaft IIRC. I'm pretty sure he sold the motor though...one of the nicest 3rd gens around!!!

Cody I'm not sure on the exact cubic inch. I always thought it was a LSX 376 because he had the valve covers lol...I know it was an iron block now though and had TFS heads and I think around 14:1 compression with limited camshaft IIRC. I'm pretty sure he sold the motor though...one of the nicest 3rd gens around!!!

I was going to say that he put the 376 in the car when he got rid of the motor that he ran in that class. It was a 40X cubic inch motor, 550 lift max, and 14:1 is correct on that compression. It was definitely a nice car!

first Ive heard of it... I read alot of people bitching about no one checking it. The nmca need to open the rules up to get more cars like
Allow Carbon Fiber doors..... as long as there painted to match car and stock appearing. Who cares that there c/f there is a min weight rule. Allow Modified sub frames from the radiator forward so that people with different radiators and fuel cells can compete
Remember that all rules suggestions need to be e-mailed to NMCA and not just posted in a forum. I know from having 2 jobs that there are times I can't read the boards as much as I'd like, so make sure to contact the NMCA and communicate with them DIRECTLY! 714-444-2426 or NMCArules@promediapub.com (NMCArules@promediapub.com)

Remember that all rules suggestions need to be e-mailed to NMCA and not just posted in a forum. I know from having 2 jobs that there are times I can't read the boards as much as I'd like, so make sure to contact the NMCA and communicate with them DIRECTLY! 714-444-2426 or NMCArules@promediapub.com (NMCArules@promediapub.com)

THE NMCA should be on here reading this.

THE NMCA should be on here reading this.
So you're saying they should have someone monitoring the dozens of message boards that could have content pertaining to the LSX community? What happened to "if you want a change, speak up and tell the person in charge?" I know if I had something I'd like to see changed at my local track, I'd contact them directly, not mention it just on a forum board and hope it got changed.

Just my $.02 and trying to help out.

Derek

They have user names on here.....they need to do there homework or 2012 will have a shitty turn out like 2011

328907

They have user names on here.....they need to do there homework or 2012 will have a shitty turn out like 2011
Factual information on said 2011 turnout?

Or is this because of a comment from this thread:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/gm-performance-parts-lsx-challenge-series-lsx-shootout/1488719-2012-schedule-no-not-yet-but-kinda.html

MIR would be cool.... I would just go to watch my car does not really fit in anything right now.

Again, I'm only trying to help out by posting up rules submission that is in play for EACH AND EVERY NMCA class; your comments are coming across as the NMCA/LSX Challenge Series is not serving YOU (meaning you alone, because I'm guessing you don't speak for everyone considering the overall LSX turnout I witnessed at Indy)!

Derek

Factual information on said 2011 turnout?

Or is this because of a comment from this thread:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/gm-performance-parts-lsx-challenge-series-lsx-shootout/1488719-2012-schedule-no-not-yet-but-kinda.html



Again, I'm only trying to help out by posting up rules submission that is in play for EACH AND EVERY NMCA class; your comments are coming across as the NMCA/LSX Challenge Series is not serving YOU (meaning you alone, because I'm guessing you don't speak for everyone considering the overall LSX turnout I witnessed at Indy)!

Derek

I'm not bitching about the rules but they need to sit Down to and look at the rules to draw more cars. I could care less if my car fits or not there's a lot bigger races in my backyard like shakedown. And yellowbullet nationals. Like I stated they can make some minor tweaks that will not make the cars any faster and draw more cars

The rules are reviewed every year, and changes are made...they even made a mid-year change to All Motor and Real Street.

The rules are reviewed every year, and changes are made...they even made a mid-year change to All Motor and Real Street.

Email sent with some ideas

all bitching and moaning aside, I'm going to show up, run real street, and have fun. Maybe i'll get my clock cleaned, maybe i'll have a shot, but i'll be there to support the class and enjoy being apart of history

Any updates?

Official rules are usually posted in January, so I believe it is under review at this time.

+1 for updates. Must be lots of discussion....I assumed we would get them before January

+1 for updates. Must be lots of discussion....i assumed we would get them before january

+ 2