Guide me in my cam swap
01-06-2011, 03:04 PM
#1
Guide me in my cam swap Ok, so this spring im looking at doing a cam swap for my 97 z28, and am hoping to get some input on a parts list ive compiled, please let me know if theres anything im missing, or if something seems crazy and outlandish.
Background: Im looking for a nice torque curve, and dont care for peaky horse power as the car will only be used for street driving and autocross. There isnt a drag strip for hours around here, so i have no goals for et/hp ect, just a nice driveable car with stump pulling torque.
The car currently has long tubes, cat back, and will have a CAI/Lid (if i can get myself to hack apart my car) at the time of install, as well as some...36#? injectors i have from my brothers build. Keep in mind I will not be touching the heads, im a university student so its just not in the budget at the moment (or anytime in the near future for that matter).
Parts list:
cc503 Cam kit - 775.86 - Cam, lifters, springs, retainers, locks, stem seals, timing chain and gears, and install lube. Ive contacted comp cams and they say it comes with pushrods (about 50% of the time, then i get that they dont? anyone know?)
Scorpion 1.7 Rockers - 214.95
7/16th ARP studs - 42.65
GM Guide plates for NSA rockers - 47.60
Intake gaskets - 28.99 (not sure which ones to use for this, input would be dandy)
Front cover gasket set - 15.95
For a total of 1126.
Does this seem about right? I know i will also need tuning, who would you recommend for that? We've delt with pcm4less once, and recieved a fried PCM, so im not sure thats where id want to go, but any input would be great.
Id post links to all parts, but im not sure if thats allowed? They all come from summit if it makes a difference.
Background: Im looking for a nice torque curve, and dont care for peaky horse power as the car will only be used for street driving and autocross. There isnt a drag strip for hours around here, so i have no goals for et/hp ect, just a nice driveable car with stump pulling torque.
The car currently has long tubes, cat back, and will have a CAI/Lid (if i can get myself to hack apart my car) at the time of install, as well as some...36#? injectors i have from my brothers build. Keep in mind I will not be touching the heads, im a university student so its just not in the budget at the moment (or anytime in the near future for that matter).
Parts list:
cc503 Cam kit - 775.86 - Cam, lifters, springs, retainers, locks, stem seals, timing chain and gears, and install lube. Ive contacted comp cams and they say it comes with pushrods (about 50% of the time, then i get that they dont? anyone know?)
Scorpion 1.7 Rockers - 214.95
7/16th ARP studs - 42.65
GM Guide plates for NSA rockers - 47.60
Intake gaskets - 28.99 (not sure which ones to use for this, input would be dandy)
Front cover gasket set - 15.95
For a total of 1126.
Does this seem about right? I know i will also need tuning, who would you recommend for that? We've delt with pcm4less once, and recieved a fried PCM, so im not sure thats where id want to go, but any input would be great.
Id post links to all parts, but im not sure if thats allowed? They all come from summit if it makes a difference.
01-06-2011, 03:16 PM
#2
Where are you getting your cam kit? I'm curious as to the included parts (like lifters, springs, etc.).
I've never heard of Comp including pushrods when you pick a cam from them...unless something has changed. You'll need 7.20" pushrods if it's a standard base-circle cam and you know the heads have never been off. Otherwise you'll need to measure for the right PR length.
I don't see the need for the Scorpion 1.7s for what you're looking to do. I'd go with a high-quality steel rocker like the Ultra Pro Mags. More expensive yes, but incredibly durable and reliable.
Avoid the GM guideplates if you can. There have been reports that some are hardened and some are not. I'd go with the TFS 30400623-8 from Trick Flow.
OEM intake gaskets work well: p/n 12524653.
PCMforless.com is my choice of tuner. Pick up an AKM Cable (www.akmcables.com) to load the tune yourself if you don't want to work with exhanging PCMs. Ion, Trifecta, etc. also work too, but I have no experience with them.
I've never heard of Comp including pushrods when you pick a cam from them...unless something has changed. You'll need 7.20" pushrods if it's a standard base-circle cam and you know the heads have never been off. Otherwise you'll need to measure for the right PR length.
I don't see the need for the Scorpion 1.7s for what you're looking to do. I'd go with a high-quality steel rocker like the Ultra Pro Mags. More expensive yes, but incredibly durable and reliable.
Avoid the GM guideplates if you can. There have been reports that some are hardened and some are not. I'd go with the TFS 30400623-8 from Trick Flow.
OEM intake gaskets work well: p/n 12524653.
PCMforless.com is my choice of tuner. Pick up an AKM Cable (www.akmcables.com) to load the tune yourself if you don't want to work with exhanging PCMs. Ion, Trifecta, etc. also work too, but I have no experience with them.
01-06-2011, 03:39 PM
#3
Anything against the 1.7's? Ive never heard of reliability issues from them, but that could just be me. I figured since the heads arent being touched, and its not a cam with excessive lift i would gain from the 1.7's according to some of the threads ive been reading on here and ltx.
01-06-2011, 03:48 PM
#4
I'm basing them more on reliability - I've heard of more Scorpion failures and poor reviews than the Ultra Pro Mags. In no way am I saying the Scorpions are junk as alot of people use them successfully, but the Ultra Pro Mags will likely be the last set of rockers you'd ever need to buy. JMHO of course.
01-06-2011, 09:14 PM
#5
Hrm, ok. As for tuning, even though its OBD II (1997 lt1?) i assume it can still be tuned using the akm cables and proper software?
Are there any good tuning programs to use for an OBD II lt1? We have a shop we deal with, and they tuned my brothers, but hes running a Mega squirt and the works, and is an OBDI setup.
Are there any good tuning programs to use for an OBD II lt1? We have a shop we deal with, and they tuned my brothers, but hes running a Mega squirt and the works, and is an OBDI setup.
01-09-2011, 07:54 AM
#7
Comp's spring recommendations tend to be wrong because their rpm ranges are based on long runner gen 1 stuff. The 1.7 rockers are pretty sure to exaggerate that problem. I also doubt 1.7s on that cam are worth it on as cast heads.
Far as the peaky thing, with a 7000ish hard limit in the pcm and most of us wanting to stay closer to 6500 with a stock shortblock there really is not much room to properly spec a peaky cam. What I mean is if the cam is spec'd well you should be able to use all those rpms and still have nice lowend.
The prices you have on the GMPP guideplate and intake gaskets seem high. You can tell us where you compiled this parts list without providing a link and that would be fine.
I probably would not bother replacing lifters, could save money there and put it towards doing something else better. Are you sure it is the right timing chain set?
Far as the peaky thing, with a 7000ish hard limit in the pcm and most of us wanting to stay closer to 6500 with a stock shortblock there really is not much room to properly spec a peaky cam. What I mean is if the cam is spec'd well you should be able to use all those rpms and still have nice lowend.
The prices you have on the GMPP guideplate and intake gaskets seem high. You can tell us where you compiled this parts list without providing a link and that would be fine.
I probably would not bother replacing lifters, could save money there and put it towards doing something else better. Are you sure it is the right timing chain set?
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01-09-2011, 02:12 PM
#8
I dont even plan to spin up to 6500, let alone 6 as there is no where around here to do that. Mainly needed great response/power in the 3-5k range, anything else is just bonus.
What springs do you figure i would need to run for the 1.7's?
Almost everything (guideplates and gaskets) are priced off of summit. There was a cheaper set of intake gaskets for about 19.99 made by felpro, i just wasnt sure if that was the way to go. The lifters and timing chain come with the comp cams kit, so i assume its the right one.
What springs do you figure i would need to run for the 1.7's?
Almost everything (guideplates and gaskets) are priced off of summit. There was a cheaper set of intake gaskets for about 19.99 made by felpro, i just wasnt sure if that was the way to go. The lifters and timing chain come with the comp cams kit, so i assume its the right one.
01-11-2011, 02:52 PM
#9
Ok so ive done a bit of revising and such, hoping to get some more input here
LE cam ? Thinking the 224/230 or 226/232?
Rockers 324.95 1605-16
Pushrods 86.95 TFS-21407200
Studs 42.65 134-7103 (ARP 7/16th)
Guide Plates 25.95 TFS-30400623-8
Intake Gaskets 28.99
Front Cover Gaskets 15.95
Spring kit 226.95 10308-1 (crane double kit?)
Lifters 129.95 12499225 (GM lifters?)
Timing Chain 15.99
Anyone know if LE sells his cams alone, and about what they run? Anything i seem to be missing?
LE cam ? Thinking the 224/230 or 226/232?
Rockers 324.95 1605-16
Pushrods 86.95 TFS-21407200
Studs 42.65 134-7103 (ARP 7/16th)
Guide Plates 25.95 TFS-30400623-8
Intake Gaskets 28.99
Front Cover Gaskets 15.95
Spring kit 226.95 10308-1 (crane double kit?)
Lifters 129.95 12499225 (GM lifters?)
Timing Chain 15.99
Anyone know if LE sells his cams alone, and about what they run? Anything i seem to be missing?
01-11-2011, 03:07 PM
#10
Ok so ive done a bit of revising and such, hoping to get some more input here
LE cam ? Thinking the 224/230 or 226/232?
Rockers 324.95 1605-16
Pushrods 86.95 TFS-21407200
Studs 42.65 134-7103 (ARP 7/16th)
Guide Plates 25.95 TFS-30400623-8
Intake Gaskets 28.99
Front Cover Gaskets 15.95
Spring kit 226.95 10308-1 (crane double kit?)
Lifters 129.95 12499225 (GM lifters?)
Timing Chain 15.99
Anyone know if LE sells his cams alone, and about what they run? Anything i seem to be missing?
LE cam ? Thinking the 224/230 or 226/232?
Rockers 324.95 1605-16
Pushrods 86.95 TFS-21407200
Studs 42.65 134-7103 (ARP 7/16th)
Guide Plates 25.95 TFS-30400623-8
Intake Gaskets 28.99
Front Cover Gaskets 15.95
Spring kit 226.95 10308-1 (crane double kit?)
Lifters 129.95 12499225 (GM lifters?)
Timing Chain 15.99
Anyone know if LE sells his cams alone, and about what they run? Anything i seem to be missing?
guy on here runs the LE 226/230 and his car traps in the 112 range which isn't bad for a pretty much cam only car in the 1/4 matters what you want out of the car really.
01-11-2011, 06:57 PM
#12
You'll be happier with the smaller cam. It will be stronger in that 3-5k rpm range you mentioned.
I'd pull the heads and replace the stock head gaskets with the Impala .029" or Mr. Gasket/Felpro .026" gasket. Either of those cams will like the extra compression, and your engine will live and perform better with the tighter quench clearance.
I'd pull the heads and replace the stock head gaskets with the Impala .029" or Mr. Gasket/Felpro .026" gasket. Either of those cams will like the extra compression, and your engine will live and perform better with the tighter quench clearance.
01-11-2011, 07:09 PM
#13
Im really trying to avoid pulling the heads, do you think its really worth it?
I just dont want to tamper with anything that doesnt already need to come off for the cam stuff, a bit worried about having a headleak afterwards, would ruin my day.
I just dont want to tamper with anything that doesnt already need to come off for the cam stuff, a bit worried about having a headleak afterwards, would ruin my day.
01-12-2011, 03:13 PM
#15
Just make sure you do everything you are supposed to. And don't skimp. WAY back when I did a head gasket and had no idea I needed to mill the heads. Ended up running perfectly, but with one random misfire from water still in the cylinder. That's what you get for being young and doing your very first head gasket without instruction.
01-12-2011, 03:39 PM
#17
It was $55 per head when I did a different set a few years ago.
01-12-2011, 04:00 PM
#19
Or at least deburr them or do light porting yourself. Of course LT1 heads are the only heads in the world that can't be done by yourself. Like you said only two people have ever figured it out EVER. EVER.
01-12-2011, 04:03 PM
#20
I wouldnt attempt it by myself, still doing the basic take apart/put back together before i try machine work.
Ok so i guess on my way home from school ill stop at a machine shop and check to see what it costs to have them milled. Also at that rate I take it id have to order different pushrods than the 7.2's due to milling/thinner gaskets?
Ok so i guess on my way home from school ill stop at a machine shop and check to see what it costs to have them milled. Also at that rate I take it id have to order different pushrods than the 7.2's due to milling/thinner gaskets?