Deano1712

A bit of help if you can...I'm fitting a LS3/T56 into a BMW. The LS3 was bought from ebay as a new engine and had a flywheel and clutch already fitted. Now Im trying to get it mobile I cant get the clutch to disengage. The fingers on the pressure plate bend in towards the flywheel when I tighten up the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel. They seem too far in and the slave needs a 15mm shim to work! I had had it fitted and removed twice now for this and need to know whats wrong. In the car I had it bled ok and the clutch wouldnt disengage. Off the car I had tried to push the PP fingers in with clamps and the clutch plate never frees up. The PP face is about flush with the outer face where it mounts to the flywheel. The clutch plate is 9mm thick. A few pics below to show...

I guess the question is whether I have the right PP for that flywheel.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5333800997/http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5333800997/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/7197859@N04/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5334419196/http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5334419196/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/7197859@N04/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5334421770/http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5334421770/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/7197859@N04/, on Flickr

DaddySS

The fingers on the PP will bend in when you tighten it. What trans are you mounting? It seems to me you need carefully measure the distance from the PP fingers to the base of the trans input shaft collar, and set the slave up so you have just enough clearance. What ever the throw is on the LS3 slave should then be enough to release the disc.

Deano1712

It has a T-56. I have set the slave up correctly with a shim. It needed 15mm! Seems too much. Do any flywheels have a recessed surface for the clutch plate? Maybe I need one like that.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

You're probably on the right track w/ PP / FW compatibility. Also,

Which T56? IIRC, the CTS-V has a long input and is a further distance away from the engine than others. Let's not even talk about how many different ones Mike has posted about w/ SSR, CTS and other parts.

Is your 15mm spacer determination based on a fresh, new compressed slave? Or one that's already popped out a little bit?

You also need to make sure you have the correct flywheel. Starting with LS2s, some flywheels were stepped (raised edge around the outer part of the flywheel) which obviously impacts the compression of the disc. If you had a PP that required the stepped FW but you had a flat FW, that would cause what you're experiencing.

An 'LS3' compatible trans. with model-compatible slave, PP, disc, pilot and FW will work. Since you may have mixed-together parts or at least a less-easily compatible trans., you need to start from step 0 and start measuring to compare parts (or compare to new-in-box stuff if you have a friendly dealer / parts store.)

Deano1712

Thanks for your reply Matthew. The trans is a TUET2066 from a GTO. Studying pics on here the PP and FW look very much like GTO parts also. When the PP is fitted the fingers are about 15mm off the front of the clutch and dont release the PP before they contact the clutch plate. Something is wrong somewhere.

Do you know how deep the recessed flywheel is? If I can get that dimension I can trial fit the PP on some washers - just to see if it functions. If that works I just need to get a new flywheel. Im concerned the PP is duff and just doesnt work right.

If I cant find what part is wrong I will probably replace the whole shooting match - PP/FW etc. The Diamond clutch kits look good value and I get a new slave too. Since the old one popped out I think it may not seal too well. Hopefuly postage to UK wont be too bad.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

sorry; didn't notice your location. Might be tough to find parts lying around at parts houses.

If the fingers hit the pressure plate ring and never release the disc, you've found your problem.

I don't know the dimensions; none of those bits are in my garage.

Maybe you simply need an LS2 `Vette flywheel like so:



Wouldn't hurt to washer space yours out like you said; you just don't want to over-press the fingers any more than you already have.

Sometimes a fellow who works at a shop that relines clutches and brakes for big trucks is a great resource with whom to have a conversation, parts in hand.

TDP

iTrader: (23)

That flywheel and pressure plate you posted does indeed go together. That's the stock "LS1/LS6" setup. No reason at all it shouldn't work. I noticed that you have the new style pilot bearing installed in the LS3. You have to space the tranny back so the input shaft doesn't bottom out before the tranny is flush with the bellhousing. Make sure the tip of the input shaft rides perfectly within the pilot bearing.Once you space the tranny out, you'll have to further space the slave cylinder out the same amount in addition to what you already have. I did a similar job where I ended up spacing the tranny back 3/8in (10mm) and it worked great.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Or get a dorman 690-014 pilot bushing instead of the CTS-V bearing.

Deano1712

Well spotted, but thats an older photo I took of the FW and I changed the bearing for the smaller version. Sorry for the misleading shot.

I dont think the PP is right for that FW. I did a test fit spacing the PP off with 3 washers (3.6mm total). The fingers ended up exactly where they should be (such that no slave shim would be needed). I made a tool to press the fingers in and hey presto the clutch disengages, with a moderate force. This is the first time I have got the clutch to disengage. When the PP is bolted directly to the FW there is no way it will disengage. The fingers disappear in toward the clutch plate and there is not enough travel left to move the PP.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5338281357/http://www.flickr.com/photos/7197859@N04/5338281357/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/7197859@N04/, on Flickr
I think I will buy a new clutch and leave the FW as it is. Thanks for your help guys. Any recommendations for a clutch that will be good with 500hp, street use?

TDP

iTrader: (23)

If you'd like to buy a new clutch, I sell the Diamond Clutch kits. The Stage 1 is good for 500hp and is $359 + shipping w/out a pilot bearing. Or the Stage 2 is $40 more and is good for 600hp. Both drive very close to stock and will work fine with a stock flywheel.
Check my sig for websites..

FWIW, I went to all the trouble to space out a TR6060 on a LS7 so we could use the new style sealed pilot bearing. I really like the design a lot better. Plus on the LS7, the input wouldn't line up with the older L381 bearing anyway.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The SAC springs are fully extended, which means that the plate has fully dropped as it would if the disc was completely worn. I suggest resetting the springs, which should lift the plate, allowing it to operate as it should. I can talk you through the resetting of the springs if you like. Just give me a call. Thanks,

j_tizzle_84

iTrader: (6)

i dont wanna offend you by asking but do you have the clutch disk in backwards. springs on the flywheel side that would cause it not to release properly. once again not insulting your intelligence just making suggestions.

Deano1712

No offence taken but the clutch is fitted the correct way lol.

I think SPEC has the answer - the SAC is fully engaged. Many thanks for that its the best news I have heard all week. Im going to try reset that tomorrow. Im happy now it looks like I can get the engine back in and take the car out for the first drive

LS1C5Vette

iTrader: (11)

I agree, try this

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

I am glad that I could assist! Let me know if you need anything else or if you have any further questions. Thanks and have a great weekend!

Deano1712

Perfect result guys thanks for the help. Clutch is now on and looks good, no shim required to slave. Springs adjusted back easy enough. Engine will be in tomorrow and I hope to give it a first drive on Sunday

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

Good deal...have fun with it and let me know if you need anything else!