2nd time to the track, still disappointed, still knocking
01-18-2011, 09:57 AM
#1
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2nd time to the track, still disappointed, still knocking Good news is I picked up a few tenths, but really needed to pick up many more to be satisfied. Ran 13.09 @ 105 compared to October when I ran 13.3 @ 103. My improvements in between track visits include wider street tires (295s), posi unit, a tune by Soloman, and some other misc like plugs/wires, 3" cutout, etc. 60' went from 2.1x to 1.9x consistently, so the tires and posi are doing their job, but I think I need to be trapping 107-109mph.
The problem is I can't get the knock tuned out for some reason and I'm about to just give up on this ****. The cars only running about 23-28 spark advance because of the knock which = no power. I have tunercat and tried tweaking it at the track bringing advance down from 36 down to 31 and richening up the mixture, but still getting same amount of knock. WHYYYYYYY???
I never intended to build a drag car. Just wanted a quick and torquey daily driver. It just sucks when the bolt on guys are running 11s and low 12s and I built a cammed 383 that runs like poo and spent way more money and time.
I know I still have stock converter, gears and suspension, but shouldn't my setup be better than 13.0?
Just sharing my frustration
The problem is I can't get the knock tuned out for some reason and I'm about to just give up on this ****. The cars only running about 23-28 spark advance because of the knock which = no power. I have tunercat and tried tweaking it at the track bringing advance down from 36 down to 31 and richening up the mixture, but still getting same amount of knock. WHYYYYYYY???
I never intended to build a drag car. Just wanted a quick and torquey daily driver. It just sucks when the bolt on guys are running 11s and low 12s and I built a cammed 383 that runs like poo and spent way more money and time.
I know I still have stock converter, gears and suspension, but shouldn't my setup be better than 13.0?
Just sharing my frustration
01-18-2011, 10:03 AM
#2
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My improvements in between track visits include wider street tires (295s), posi unit, a tune by Soloman, and some other misc like plugs/wires, 3" cutout, etc. 60' went from 2.1x to 1.9x consistently, so the tires and posi are doing their job, but I think I need to be trapping 107-109mph.
01-18-2011, 10:19 AM
#3
okkkkkkk.................
answer these for me....
1. Whats your compression ratio and what are you running for fuel?
2. Do you have a wideband O2 on the car that u can verifiy AFR with?
3. What type of optispark is on it? (GM, MSD, Accell???)
4. Can you hear the car detonating or do u just see it pulling timing out??
5. Did you verifiy the timing with a datalogger or are you just assuming its at that number because thats what you typed in the table?
answer these for me....
1. Whats your compression ratio and what are you running for fuel?
2. Do you have a wideband O2 on the car that u can verifiy AFR with?
3. What type of optispark is on it? (GM, MSD, Accell???)
4. Can you hear the car detonating or do u just see it pulling timing out??
5. Did you verifiy the timing with a datalogger or are you just assuming its at that number because thats what you typed in the table?
01-18-2011, 11:38 AM
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okkkkkkk.................
answer these for me....
1. Whats your compression ratio and what are you running for fuel?
2. Do you have a wideband O2 on the car that u can verifiy AFR with?
3. What type of optispark is on it? (GM, MSD, Accell???)
4. Can you hear the car detonating or do u just see it pulling timing out??
5. Did you verifiy the timing with a datalogger or are you just assuming its at that number because thats what you typed in the table?
answer these for me....
1. Whats your compression ratio and what are you running for fuel?
2. Do you have a wideband O2 on the car that u can verifiy AFR with?
3. What type of optispark is on it? (GM, MSD, Accell???)
4. Can you hear the car detonating or do u just see it pulling timing out??
5. Did you verifiy the timing with a datalogger or are you just assuming its at that number because thats what you typed in the table?
2. Just got one, it worked for a few days, now I'm having connection issues with the laptop cable. Getting it worked out hopefully. When working it was showing same AFR that the PCM was commanding. ~14.7 cruising, and ~12.5 WOT. Tuned the PCM to 11.5 and WB confirmed the change.
3. Chandler. Original GM unit went out not too long ago after Knock problems started.
4. No, can't hear it. Just getting info from datamaster. No knock occurs until you step on the throttle. I can cruise around all day long with no issues at all. I have logs from the track I can email.
5. Datamaster. And spark plugs shows signs of detonation.
Here's a question I asked Solomon by email, but haven't heard back yet. I lowered spark advance down to 31, but the PCM is commanding 35 or so. It's like the numbers I put in the main and extended spark advance tables aren't changing anything. If I put 32 in the 90-100kpa range at 3000 RPMS, why would it ever be higher than 32 in that range. Is some other table adding advance?
01-18-2011, 11:45 AM
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Tires: I bought wheels to please the eye. I almost went with drag radials, but I ended up with street tires for wet traction and to get more miles out of them. I'm not as concerned about the ET as I am about the lack of power from the motor. More concerned with trap MPH than 60' time, if that makes sense.
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01-18-2011, 12:48 PM
#8
1. It's stock or real close to stock. I don't have the specs, but pistons were designed for 383 w/stock compression as long as CC is stock, which it is minus maybe .006" milling. 93 octane pump gas.
2. Just got one, it worked for a few days, now I'm having connection issues with the laptop cable. Getting it worked out hopefully. When working it was showing same AFR that the PCM was commanding. ~14.7 cruising, and ~12.5 WOT. Tuned the PCM to 11.5 and WB confirmed the change.
3. Chandler. Original GM unit went out not too long ago after Knock problems started.
4. No, can't hear it. Just getting info from datamaster. No knock occurs until you step on the throttle. I can cruise around all day long with no issues at all. I have logs from the track I can email.
5. Datamaster. And spark plugs shows signs of detonation.
Here's a question I asked Solomon by email, but haven't heard back yet. I lowered spark advance down to 31, but the PCM is commanding 35 or so. It's like the numbers I put in the main and extended spark advance tables aren't changing anything. If I put 32 in the 90-100kpa range at 3000 RPMS, why would it ever be higher than 32 in that range. Is some other table adding advance?
2. Just got one, it worked for a few days, now I'm having connection issues with the laptop cable. Getting it worked out hopefully. When working it was showing same AFR that the PCM was commanding. ~14.7 cruising, and ~12.5 WOT. Tuned the PCM to 11.5 and WB confirmed the change.
3. Chandler. Original GM unit went out not too long ago after Knock problems started.
4. No, can't hear it. Just getting info from datamaster. No knock occurs until you step on the throttle. I can cruise around all day long with no issues at all. I have logs from the track I can email.
5. Datamaster. And spark plugs shows signs of detonation.
Here's a question I asked Solomon by email, but haven't heard back yet. I lowered spark advance down to 31, but the PCM is commanding 35 or so. It's like the numbers I put in the main and extended spark advance tables aren't changing anything. If I put 32 in the 90-100kpa range at 3000 RPMS, why would it ever be higher than 32 in that range. Is some other table adding advance?
also is this an OBDI or OBDII system?
also what kpa are you logging at WOT??? im assuming aruond 93 prob depending on ur elevation?
01-18-2011, 01:58 PM
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Tunercat, OBDI, and kpa usually stays above 95, I've seen it as high as 101 before, but it stays pretty steady at 97-98 down the track. Is that good or bad? I'm in South Louisiana which you won't find any area more than 30ft above sea level. The local track is 28' I believe.
I still have stock throttle body and I thought that may be restricting the airflow. Doesn't explain detonation, but might explain lack of power. My building thinks the stock TB is big enough for my motor, but I'm starting to think other wise. How do I test that theory?
Just FYI: the knock all started when I had 2 plug wires get ate up by the A/C pulley and was missing bad and running like ****. That caused some knock which showed up in datamaster. I had to drive it to work like that for 2 days, running on 6 or 7 cylinders. Replaced all wires with MSD 8.5s and confident that there's no interference. I thought that would solve it, but it didn't. Then the opti went out on me, so I thought maybe that was causing the problem, but replaced that and still nothing. I've done everything from new KS and LT4KM to richening up the AFR to 11.5. it was suggested on here that I try higher octane gas, but I haven't tried that. I did put some octane booster in the tank. It may have helped but knock didn't disappear. Some days I can go on the street and log a few WOT runs and get barely any to no knock and some days, like at the track Sat, it's all over the place. Up to 10-12 degrees retard sometimes.
I still have stock throttle body and I thought that may be restricting the airflow. Doesn't explain detonation, but might explain lack of power. My building thinks the stock TB is big enough for my motor, but I'm starting to think other wise. How do I test that theory?
Just FYI: the knock all started when I had 2 plug wires get ate up by the A/C pulley and was missing bad and running like ****. That caused some knock which showed up in datamaster. I had to drive it to work like that for 2 days, running on 6 or 7 cylinders. Replaced all wires with MSD 8.5s and confident that there's no interference. I thought that would solve it, but it didn't. Then the opti went out on me, so I thought maybe that was causing the problem, but replaced that and still nothing. I've done everything from new KS and LT4KM to richening up the AFR to 11.5. it was suggested on here that I try higher octane gas, but I haven't tried that. I did put some octane booster in the tank. It may have helped but knock didn't disappear. Some days I can go on the street and log a few WOT runs and get barely any to no knock and some days, like at the track Sat, it's all over the place. Up to 10-12 degrees retard sometimes.
01-18-2011, 02:02 PM
#10
Tunercat, OBDI, and kpa usually stays above 95, I've seen it as high as 101 before, but it stays pretty steady at 97-98 down the track. Is that good or bad? I'm in South Louisiana which you won't find any area more than 30ft above sea level. The local track is 28' I believe.
I still have stock throttle body and I thought that may be restricting the airflow. Doesn't explain detonation, but might explain lack of power. My building thinks the stock TB is big enough for my motor, but I'm starting to think other wise. How do I test that theory?
Just FYI: the knock all started when I had 2 plug wires get ate up by the A/C pulley and was missing bad and running like ****. That caused some knock which showed up in datamaster. I had to drive it to work like that for 2 days, running on 6 or 7 cylinders. Replaced all wires with MSD 8.5s and confident that there's no interference. I thought that would solve it, but it didn't. Then the opti went out on me, so I thought maybe that was causing the problem, but replaced that and still nothing. I've done everything from new KS and LT4KM to richening up the AFR to 11.5. it was suggested on here that I try higher octane gas, but I haven't tried that. I did put some octane booster in the tank. It may have helped but knock didn't disappear. Some days I can go on the street and log a few WOT runs and get barely any to no knock and some days, like at the track Sat, it's all over the place. Up to 10-12 degrees retard sometimes.
I still have stock throttle body and I thought that may be restricting the airflow. Doesn't explain detonation, but might explain lack of power. My building thinks the stock TB is big enough for my motor, but I'm starting to think other wise. How do I test that theory?
Just FYI: the knock all started when I had 2 plug wires get ate up by the A/C pulley and was missing bad and running like ****. That caused some knock which showed up in datamaster. I had to drive it to work like that for 2 days, running on 6 or 7 cylinders. Replaced all wires with MSD 8.5s and confident that there's no interference. I thought that would solve it, but it didn't. Then the opti went out on me, so I thought maybe that was causing the problem, but replaced that and still nothing. I've done everything from new KS and LT4KM to richening up the AFR to 11.5. it was suggested on here that I try higher octane gas, but I haven't tried that. I did put some octane booster in the tank. It may have helped but knock didn't disappear. Some days I can go on the street and log a few WOT runs and get barely any to no knock and some days, like at the track Sat, it's all over the place. Up to 10-12 degrees retard sometimes.
also how about adjusting the valves? how did you do it and are they correct? whats in the motor for plugs and what are they gapped at?
01-18-2011, 02:24 PM
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Well the first time out to the track was on my homeade tune. Then I decided I wasn't qualified and I needed a professional tune, so I hit up Solomon. The first tune he sent me, I loaded and went for a ride and logged on the street. Made a few WOT runs on the street and no knock present, motor really felt alive for the first time. I sent Solomon a few data log files, and he tweaked the tune. Everything was fine, then the misfires happened and discovered the plug wires and it's been knocking ever since even though I fixed those problems.
I haven't adjusted the valves. My builder did all that during the build. Is that something that needs to be adjusted after a new build has a few miles on it?
Plugs: NGK-TR6 gapped at 35 I believe (however them come out of the box).
I haven't adjusted the valves. My builder did all that during the build. Is that something that needs to be adjusted after a new build has a few miles on it?
Plugs: NGK-TR6 gapped at 35 I believe (however them come out of the box).
01-18-2011, 02:30 PM
#13
Well the first time out to the track was on my homeade tune. Then I decided I wasn't qualified and I needed a professional tune, so I hit up Solomon. The first tune he sent me, I loaded and went for a ride and logged on the street. Made a few WOT runs on the street and no knock present, motor really felt alive for the first time. I sent Solomon a few data log files, and he tweaked the tune. Everything was fine, then the misfires happened and discovered the plug wires and it's been knocking ever since even though I fixed those problems.
I haven't adjusted the valves. My builder did all that during the build. Is that something that needs to be adjusted after a new build has a few miles on it?
Plugs: NGK-TR6 gapped at 35 I believe (however them come out of the box).
I haven't adjusted the valves. My builder did all that during the build. Is that something that needs to be adjusted after a new build has a few miles on it?
Plugs: NGK-TR6 gapped at 35 I believe (however them come out of the box).
also personally I've had bad luck with the MSD Superconductors on my car........the EMF from them was so bad that everytime the car would get to 6000rpm or more it would blue screen of death my lap top on the passaangers seat......i switched to a set of Moroso Ultra 40 11.5mm sleeved wires and have never had a problem since.....i got them for sale now too lol
01-18-2011, 02:57 PM
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I'll double check for arcing but couldn't find any after I installed the plugs and wires. I guess I'll pull the plugs and gap them too. What is EMF? Kinda funny you mention the laptop blue screen because ever since I installed my MSD wires, when I'm logging on my laptop with datamaster I lose connection for a few seconds at a time, it beeps at me and makes the graph look all f'ed up. I thought I f'ed something up when I installed my plug wires, but it may just be the wires themselves? That's just one more problem I have with this car. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets. I'm running out of patience (and money) with this thing.
I really appreciate your interest in helping me and sharing your knowledge. Is there a secret to finding a wire arcing? or do I just turn off the lights and observe? Any way to test the opti for the spark scatter problem?
I really appreciate your interest in helping me and sharing your knowledge. Is there a secret to finding a wire arcing? or do I just turn off the lights and observe? Any way to test the opti for the spark scatter problem?
01-18-2011, 03:26 PM
#15
I'll double check for arcing but couldn't find any after I installed the plugs and wires. I guess I'll pull the plugs and gap them too. What is EMF? Kinda funny you mention the laptop blue screen because ever since I installed my MSD wires, when I'm logging on my laptop with datamaster I lose connection for a few seconds at a time, it beeps at me and makes the graph look all f'ed up. I thought I f'ed something up when I installed my plug wires, but it may just be the wires themselves? That's just one more problem I have with this car. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets. I'm running out of patience (and money) with this thing.
I really appreciate your interest in helping me and sharing your knowledge. Is there a secret to finding a wire arcing? or do I just turn off the lights and observe? Any way to test the opti for the spark scatter problem?
I really appreciate your interest in helping me and sharing your knowledge. Is there a secret to finding a wire arcing? or do I just turn off the lights and observe? Any way to test the opti for the spark scatter problem?
