Monster Install Help!
01-22-2011, 09:25 PM
#1
Monster Install Help! Ok well I've attempted this twice and I'm getting pretty frustrated....
Installed a Monster Stage 5 - new PP, flywheel, disk, speed bleeder, throwout and pilot bearing, slave.
Got it all buttoned back up and after bleeding it, tried it out.
Up on the jackstands it went into all gears and the pedal had pressure on it. Then I noticed a problem, the back wheels were spinning while it was in gear with the clutch pedal to the floor.
So we bled it a little more and more and tried again with the car on the ground. Wouldn't go into gear.
So I looked online on here and tech and determined I needed to check a few things.
-Checking the reverse lockout sensor (No luck)
-Adjusting the Tick Master (No luck)
-Bleeding the smurf out of it (No luck)
-Installing a shim (even though monster says you dont need one)
Again today we ripped it apart again, checked all the fittings, double checked the torque specs for everything, and tried again, this time installing the shim behind the slave.
After speaking with Joey from Tick, he said that a few Monster users HAVE had to use a shim. So I picked up a shim and installed it before putting everything back together.
.....No dice.
I adjusted the Tick Master to where the clutch pedal is even with the brake pedal (afraid to go any higher than that).
I can drive it in all the forward gears, but reverse still WILL not go in.
A few notes after the FUN 2nd install. (This is with the pedal even with the brake)
1)Stopped, it will go into gear, but takes more effort than it should.
2)While moving, it shifts normally but the RPMs between gears doesn't drop much.
3)I can start it and drive in Reverse, but you can hear the starter working hard to start the car.
Obviously, #2 and #3 tell me that the clutch isn't fully disengaging.
Why?
-Hydraulic issue?
-or a problem with the pressure plate?
I really thought this was going to go smoothly, the install went without a hitch, until the whole shifting part.......
Anyone have this problem when they did theirs and what did you do to fix it?
If I cant figure this **** out, I'm either going to put the stock **** back in, or just drive it to a shop and let them deal with it.
Installed a Monster Stage 5 - new PP, flywheel, disk, speed bleeder, throwout and pilot bearing, slave.
Got it all buttoned back up and after bleeding it, tried it out.
Up on the jackstands it went into all gears and the pedal had pressure on it. Then I noticed a problem, the back wheels were spinning while it was in gear with the clutch pedal to the floor.
So we bled it a little more and more and tried again with the car on the ground. Wouldn't go into gear.
So I looked online on here and tech and determined I needed to check a few things.
-Checking the reverse lockout sensor (No luck)
-Adjusting the Tick Master (No luck)
-Bleeding the smurf out of it (No luck)
-Installing a shim (even though monster says you dont need one)
Again today we ripped it apart again, checked all the fittings, double checked the torque specs for everything, and tried again, this time installing the shim behind the slave.
After speaking with Joey from Tick, he said that a few Monster users HAVE had to use a shim. So I picked up a shim and installed it before putting everything back together.
.....No dice.
I adjusted the Tick Master to where the clutch pedal is even with the brake pedal (afraid to go any higher than that).
I can drive it in all the forward gears, but reverse still WILL not go in.
A few notes after the FUN 2nd install. (This is with the pedal even with the brake)
1)Stopped, it will go into gear, but takes more effort than it should.
2)While moving, it shifts normally but the RPMs between gears doesn't drop much.
3)I can start it and drive in Reverse, but you can hear the starter working hard to start the car.
Obviously, #2 and #3 tell me that the clutch isn't fully disengaging.
Why?
-Hydraulic issue?
-or a problem with the pressure plate?
I really thought this was going to go smoothly, the install went without a hitch, until the whole shifting part.......
Anyone have this problem when they did theirs and what did you do to fix it?
If I cant figure this **** out, I'm either going to put the stock **** back in, or just drive it to a shop and let them deal with it.
01-23-2011, 09:51 AM
#2
What did you use to bleed it? I have done a couple of GTO's at work and they are a ***** to bleed. Luckily I have a bleeder that screws onto the resorvoir and pushes fluid through the system, within seconds you're ready to go. I've tried to manually bleed it and it takes forever and usually leaves air in the system. Do you have a pedal?
01-23-2011, 11:08 AM
#5
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Sounds like a possibly hydraulic issue. I personally bleed the system manually till i get most of my pedal pressure. Then I bleed the system the rest of the way with a mighty vac and get a nice firm smooth pedal.
Did you take all your measurements when installing the first/2nd time and if so what are they? Could be a ooops and wrong slave? Measuring would've eliminated that though. Curious to see if you adjust the tick up further if it takes care of it. I know theres concern of over extending the fingures of the PP but if its not disengaging then its probably not gone to far. Then you would need to check high rpm shifting after break in of the clutch materials.
Keep us informed I'm sure with all the knowledge on here we'll get you all set for the good racing weather.
Did you take all your measurements when installing the first/2nd time and if so what are they? Could be a ooops and wrong slave? Measuring would've eliminated that though. Curious to see if you adjust the tick up further if it takes care of it. I know theres concern of over extending the fingures of the PP but if its not disengaging then its probably not gone to far. Then you would need to check high rpm shifting after break in of the clutch materials.
Keep us informed I'm sure with all the knowledge on here we'll get you all set for the good racing weather.
01-23-2011, 12:19 PM
#7
Thanks for all the replies guys.
For bleeding
To start, I unhooked the master and bled it individually. Once I was getting no air through their then I plugged it back in and started on the slave.
I just used a few methods of manually bleeding it with the pedal. I was thinking about going to pick up one of those one man brake bleeding vacuum kits, but it seemed like it was more of a problem to me than just the bleeding.
-Leaving the valve open in a half full bottle and just pumping the hell out of it and refilling the resevior.
-Closing the valve, pumping the pedal, and then cracking the valve on the speed bleeder.
-Gravity bleeding it.
As for adjusting the master more. I still have alot of adjustment up to the top, I'm just afraid of damaging something trying to get a quick fix.
I talked to Chris and Matt at SNL about this and both of them just say it needs bled more.
For bleeding
To start, I unhooked the master and bled it individually. Once I was getting no air through their then I plugged it back in and started on the slave.
I just used a few methods of manually bleeding it with the pedal. I was thinking about going to pick up one of those one man brake bleeding vacuum kits, but it seemed like it was more of a problem to me than just the bleeding.
-Leaving the valve open in a half full bottle and just pumping the hell out of it and refilling the resevior.
-Closing the valve, pumping the pedal, and then cracking the valve on the speed bleeder.
-Gravity bleeding it.
As for adjusting the master more. I still have alot of adjustment up to the top, I'm just afraid of damaging something trying to get a quick fix.
I talked to Chris and Matt at SNL about this and both of them just say it needs bled more.
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01-23-2011, 08:59 PM
#8
Don't pump the pedal. Push it down, crack the bleeder, close it, release pedal, then repeat. Also keep a constant eye on the resorvoir, it's very small and drains quickly.
I know I already asked this but I don't think I got an answer; do you have a pedal or is it spongy?
I know I already asked this but I don't think I got an answer; do you have a pedal or is it spongy?
01-23-2011, 09:16 PM
#9
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Don't pump the pedal. Push it down, crack the bleeder, close it, release pedal, then repeat. Also keep a constant eye on the resorvoir, it's very small and drains quickly.
I know I already asked this but I don't think I got an answer; do you have a pedal or is it spongy?
I know I already asked this but I don't think I got an answer; do you have a pedal or is it spongy?
01-29-2011, 03:00 PM
#11
Ok so here are all the measurements I got today.
PP Fingers to TOB - 4-7/16 (with a .150 shim)
added from this sticky on LS1 tech
A) is 2-3/16 B) is 2-1/4
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual...-clutch-setup-
need-shim.html
Now here is what I DO NOT understand.....read on.
The stack height of the stock pieces = 6.310
The stock height of the monster parts= 6.039
Total difference = .271
Total difference (with a .150 shim) = .121....Still about an 1/8th of an inch like the thread on LS1tech says.
Stock
PP - 2.625
Clutch - 2.90
Flywheel - .785
Total - 6.310
Monster
PP - 2.187
Clutch - 3.05
Flywheel - .802
Total - 6.039
The first time I put it back together it would NOT go into gear at all.
After putting in a .150 shim the car would go into gear but it took a little effort (or rev matching) and you could still feel it dragging.
Obviously still not completely disengaging, it makes sense that since the new setup is still .121 short that its not disengaging all the way, and shows why a shim helped the first time.
After talking to someone at SNL, he said that the monsters DO NOT need a shim regardless of compared stack heights because the internal design of the monster PP is 100% different than the stock design and therefore, the measurements don't matter.
......My question still stands though, what is making up the difference for different stack heights?
-Car is still apart, and just sitting in the garage. Waiting to get some peoples opinions on what to do before putting the stock pieces back in and going with another clutch.
PP Fingers to TOB - 4-7/16 (with a .150 shim)
added from this sticky on LS1 tech
A) is 2-3/16 B) is 2-1/4
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual...-clutch-setup-
need-shim.html
Now here is what I DO NOT understand.....read on.
The stack height of the stock pieces = 6.310
The stock height of the monster parts= 6.039
Total difference = .271
Total difference (with a .150 shim) = .121....Still about an 1/8th of an inch like the thread on LS1tech says.
Stock
PP - 2.625
Clutch - 2.90
Flywheel - .785
Total - 6.310
Monster
PP - 2.187
Clutch - 3.05
Flywheel - .802
Total - 6.039
The first time I put it back together it would NOT go into gear at all.
After putting in a .150 shim the car would go into gear but it took a little effort (or rev matching) and you could still feel it dragging.
Obviously still not completely disengaging, it makes sense that since the new setup is still .121 short that its not disengaging all the way, and shows why a shim helped the first time.
After talking to someone at SNL, he said that the monsters DO NOT need a shim regardless of compared stack heights because the internal design of the monster PP is 100% different than the stock design and therefore, the measurements don't matter.
......My question still stands though, what is making up the difference for different stack heights?
-Car is still apart, and just sitting in the garage. Waiting to get some peoples opinions on what to do before putting the stock pieces back in and going with another clutch.
