usmonaro

2004 Pontiac GTO M6
Installed a gripforce stage 2 kevlar clutch today. Also had F1 lightweight flywheel. Installed a new Wagner slave cylinder because the factory one was busted.

Got everything together and the clutch chatters/shudder and shakes the whole car when engaging first or reverse, almost to the extent you think its going to break something.

Once its in gear it shifts from gear to gear fairly smooth, but then again I gave it gas probably 1/2 throttle in 3rd at about 35-40 and it made noises kinda like an input shaft.

Worries: The Gripforce kit came with a 1/8" in approximate thick plate that mounted directly behind the slave cylinder. It had a sticker on it and said, install behind slave cylinder. It bolted up fine... I'm wondering if that is holding too much tension or what because the factory slave cylinder did not have that plate behind it.

What else could it be/should the chatter be that bad. I read a few stories on here but I mean it seems like it shakes hard enough bolts are gonna fall out.

My other problem is that the shifter no longer automatically centers in the neutral position. If its in neutral and you pull it to the left side (not in first or 2nd) it stays on that side. It does the same if you put it on the right side. When you pull the shifter out of gears it stays on whatever side until you move it to the middle. I could not figure this out.

I appreciate any input. This is my only car and I only have 1 more day in the shop to get it done. If any of you guys have any ideas/ no what the problem is or maybe please message me immediately.

Thank you.

Nmbr1GMfan

iTrader: (1)

Why did you use the lightweight flywheel?

usmonaro

Why does anyone else use the lightweight flywheel? 1) It came with my kit 2) My factory flywheel is toast 3)I drive mostly street, car has been to the 1/8th mile track maybe 5 times in 3yrs.

Nmbr1GMfan

iTrader: (1)

Not really sure how to take your post, Im trying to get info and you act upset I asked a ?.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Measuring bearing to pressure plate contact point on the fingers is how to determine whether the shim is needed.

Shifter return to 3-4 gate is due to preload in the shifter. Nothing to worry about; some get soft over time.

Kfen20

iTrader: (3)

I am having a similar issue with a recent Centerforce DFX install. If I am in first gear and try to engage the clutch slowly at idle (like when driving in heavy traffic) the entire car shudders terribly. However if I engage 1st gear at around 2500 rpm the car has no shudder at all. Shifting between gears is smooth once I get rolling but getting rolling at a lower rpm range feels like i'm about to rip the transmission out of the car.

So far I've only put around 200 miles on the new clutch, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that after it's broken in (400-500 miles??) it'll smoothen out. Anyone have any similar issues? Should I be concerned and start digging into it or see if it gets better as it gets some miles on it?

Car is a 98 ws6 M6 with approximately 80k miles on it, no engine mods, hooker headers, new McLeod clutch master cylinder, new Dorman slave cylinder, springs and struts all around, and a few other minor items.

usmonaro

Its supposed to return to center though. How do I get it to go back lol, it didn't do that before I pulled the shifter today and I know its not supposed to be that way. There is no way you can shift quick between gears like that. It just doesn't feel right, I'm going to try to put my b&m short throw in tomorrow and see if that helps and/or if I can find the problem.

I wasn't trying to be a smartA but I used it because its what I have to work with right now. I know what I have and now I'm trying to diagnose the problem.

I'm down to the extremely hard chatter is because of the flywheel/clutch combo

Or the shim behind the slave cylinder. My problem is I don't understand by the illistrations and the lingo on how to measure from the pressure plate fingers to the bell housing mounting surface with the bell housing on the transmission. If its installed how do you possibly measure it?

And If i'm trying this whole measuring thing how do I get the spring off the slave without damaging the cylinder or plastic part on it.

The clutch kit came with the shim so I would assume that the manufacturer recommended to use it with this clutch but all in the same it may not need it correct?

Would the shim cause that excessive chatter noise?

Also, clutch pedal is extremely firm, feels nice with car off the gear shift is free of any kinks, switches in and out of all of the gears without any catchiness.

Read that higher perf clutches may chatter at first, this is only a stage 2 rated at like 550 flywheel hp. Should I drive the car around and see if it gets any better, I am scared that it may tear other stuff up especially if I get stuck stopped on a steep hill and have to try to take off.

I changed the tranny fluid too, used Valvoline Dexron Mercon III, and put 5qts in it. I read on specs that it called for 9.6 pints so like 4.8~ish quarts. I did not remove the fill plug. Should I to check and see if it runs out? Could this be what is causing the weird whining noise I'm hearing when I gave it gas in gear?

Is it possible I damaged the pilot bearing while installing and it caused any of these problems? I thought it went in just fine.

Thanks again guys, I'm just so beside myself right now. Almost like a sick to my stomach feeling. I know most of us have all been there but I did a days work and then some and have absolutely accomplished nothing and this is my only car. I've did clutches on my 240sx and my 300zx that I had and they were NOTHING like this. Please give input if possible.

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...need-shim.html

Read this. It should explain it in simple terms. I dont know crap about manual transmissions but I understood that

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

I just wanted to add that if you get frustrated then its only gonna make it worse. Calm down, drink a beer and figure it out lol. Check the simple things first like the pilot bushing and the look at the input shaft and see if something happened to it when you were putting it in. Check your torque on the bolts. and see if any are loose.

The only way that shim could be causing any noise is if its loose. Now I may be wrong but thats the only way I can see it making a noise.

usmonaro

See I looked at that writeup and it shows the pic *as if the bellhousing is transparent* lol. In real life, it is not transparent. So how do I measure it? I understand how to measure the bearing to slave cylinder and that means pulling that dang tranny again.

Have any of you did a GTO trans yet? I mean it was a PAIN getting this thing to shoot back in. I have a tranny jack and everything, it took three of us holding it up and rocking it to get the thing to slide in because it wouldn't off the trans jack.

Any tips? Cause all my friends are working tomorrow so that means lone me is going to be trying to tackle this thing by myself.

Anyone close who might be willing to lend a hand lol. Good experience ;^)

TDP

iTrader: (23)

The gripforce clutch line are all 11in and they tend to chatter much more than the 12in clutches.

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

The chatter isnt so much the problem. Its all the extra noises he is hearing like the whine and stuff like that.

Ok pull the transmission off of the bellhousing and measure from the fingers to the edge of the bellhousing. Measure it straight out. Get something flat and put it across the bellhousing opening where the trans would normally bolt and measure it. Not from the fingers to the edge of it. It needs to be straight out.

usmonaro

I read reviews of the ls1 gripforces and didn't see any problems. 11" gripforce, 11.75" for spec and a few others

Ok so unbolt the trans from the bell housing and lay something flat across it and then measure to whats layed flat across it

Now doesn't it show to measure from the pressure plate fingers?

And I still don't realize how to get the spring of the slave cylinder unit.

Awesome question, if I am leaving the clutch & pressure plate intact, can I just unbolt the bellhousing and pull that tranny out?? that would be soooo much easier, especially by myself to shoot it back in.

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

Unbolt the transmission from the bell housing (bellhousing is still on the block) then pull the transmission out. The bellhousing will be bolted to your block and the transmission will be laying on the floor. Lay something flat across the bellhousing like a ruler or something. Then measure from the fingers of the pp to to the ruler going across the bellhousing.

My slave cyl just came apart LOL. Idk about that....... Youre gonna have to search some.

usmonaro

Lol well I'll take the old slave cylinder apart first and if it breaks lol oh well. Thanks alot guys so far you have been VERY helpful. I know how to measure for the shim now.

Only other possible question I have is that the shim that came with mine is about an 1/8th thick. I put the shim in and re-measure the space if needed correct? If not any ideas how to thin the shim down evenly lol.

Goodnight guys, I'm off to bed. Please post any more information you guys may feel I'll find helpful. Wish me luck tomorrow. Thank you guys and God bless!!!

Checked everything, used spacer, fixed the shifter centering problem and drove the car home. It still chatters pretty good in first and reverse especially if you can't just dump it into gear. If I take off in first at 2000~rpms and let out quick it almost doesn't make a noise. I also noticed if you bog the car down in a gear like less than 1000rpm it makes an awful sound, but other than that still a good pedal and the car drives lol. I talked to a friend of mine who has did multiple LS clutches and he said most he has dealt with took about 1000miles to quiet down a lot.

Thanks guys. armyboyatc : You have been alot of help dude. Appreciate it.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

The lightweight flywheel explains the need for more rpm to take off ect.With more rpm the clutch will more than likely chatter more. This why most people run the heavy flywheel for street cars and lightweight flywheels for road race cars.

Never heard of the clutch your ussing.Sounds light an aggresive disk material which can give the problems you describe.

armyboyatc

iTrader: (29)

No problem man. Thats what this forum is here for. So you did need the shim huh? The chattering will calm down. Just follow your break in period and when that is over, take it out and beat on it. It will go away.