Please help deciding on 4L80E options (manual VB, TB etc.)
02-08-2011, 07:01 PM
#1
Please help deciding on 4L80E options (manual VB, TB etc.) The time has come to create "help to decide" thread again 
I'm doing a lot of reading on auto trannies but it's so new I still have a lot of questions so I need some help.
I decided to switch from M6 to 4L80E on my 383ci turbo (TC76). Eventually plan to squeeze some most of it, so probably around 1000hp. I daily drive it in summer and take it to the strip often, so it has to retain good street manners and no 8mpg mileage. I'm not after Mercedes-like comfort but wouldn't want to rev it to 2500 just to take off in traffic.
So here are few questions:
1) do I really need transbrake? tracks here are not prepped very good, often no glue even. And I know TB shocks the tires like dumping clutch, so more chances to just spin badly. On the other hand, it helps to build boost off the line, but I guess 2-step helps too? So do I need TB?
2) what are benefits of manual VB? if the PCM doesn't play stupid and change gear when I'm going sideways at 4000rpm, then I don't really need it?
3) what stall converter should I get?
4) if PCM controls tranny by putting voltage to some solenoids (or it's not that simple), then is it possible that I retain auto valve body, but make some kind of box that would force to change gears, perhaps via steering-wheel mounted paddles or smth.?
Thanks for you opinions
I'm doing a lot of reading on auto trannies but it's so new I still have a lot of questions so I need some help.I decided to switch from M6 to 4L80E on my 383ci turbo (TC76). Eventually plan to squeeze some most of it, so probably around 1000hp. I daily drive it in summer and take it to the strip often, so it has to retain good street manners and no 8mpg mileage. I'm not after Mercedes-like comfort but wouldn't want to rev it to 2500 just to take off in traffic.
So here are few questions:
1) do I really need transbrake? tracks here are not prepped very good, often no glue even. And I know TB shocks the tires like dumping clutch, so more chances to just spin badly. On the other hand, it helps to build boost off the line, but I guess 2-step helps too? So do I need TB?
2) what are benefits of manual VB? if the PCM doesn't play stupid and change gear when I'm going sideways at 4000rpm, then I don't really need it?
3) what stall converter should I get?
4) if PCM controls tranny by putting voltage to some solenoids (or it's not that simple), then is it possible that I retain auto valve body, but make some kind of box that would force to change gears, perhaps via steering-wheel mounted paddles or smth.?
Thanks for you opinions
02-08-2011, 07:52 PM
#2
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1. yes transbrake is nominal to get stall speed up with a footbrake you will not be able to hold it against the converetr without power braking.......having a TB means you have toi learn you vehicle and where it like to leave at just beacuse you have a 3500 stall and a TB doens mean you have to leave at 3500rpms just an example of course
2. A manual VB allows you full control of the trans during the run lets you change shift points from run to run to optimize your 1/4 time
3. between 3500 and 4000 seems to be the sweet spot for the LS motors make sure you geta good converter and not a mickey mouse knockoff
4. the solenoids are actually grounded by the PCM and given 12v constant and I am pretty sure most of the VB kits allow you to retain auto operation also Jake may want to chime in on this one as he has been working with this for a while.
2. A manual VB allows you full control of the trans during the run lets you change shift points from run to run to optimize your 1/4 time
3. between 3500 and 4000 seems to be the sweet spot for the LS motors make sure you geta good converter and not a mickey mouse knockoff
4. the solenoids are actually grounded by the PCM and given 12v constant and I am pretty sure most of the VB kits allow you to retain auto operation also Jake may want to chime in on this one as he has been working with this for a while.
02-08-2011, 08:38 PM
#3
1. I would...with a 2 step you can tone it down. I think you are actually better off having a TB because you can use the full potential of the suspension (if you footbrake it, you take up some travel when going up against the footbrake).
2. I'd do an auto tune, you could always setup the tow-haul mode to act exactly like a full manual, and leave the normal mode to full auto shifting.
3. Find a good converter company and let them decide for you
4. You could....you have 2 solenoids controlling 4 gears...it could be weird trying to remember which of the 2 switches does what.
2. I'd do an auto tune, you could always setup the tow-haul mode to act exactly like a full manual, and leave the normal mode to full auto shifting.
3. Find a good converter company and let them decide for you
4. You could....you have 2 solenoids controlling 4 gears...it could be weird trying to remember which of the 2 switches does what.
02-09-2011, 01:46 AM
#4
Thanks for replies
Yes I'm sure transbrake is great to have, but it's about $500 and I am not sure I will be able to ever leave at high rpms, because of bad tracks. See what I mean?
Predator, I always race with my laptop so I could alter shift points quickly.
Could you please explain that, about tow-haul mode? what is it?
I'm reading good things about Circle-D, probably this or Yank, PTI, or Jake I guess they are all around $900?
Maybe someone already have developed such box to override PCM commands? It would be really nice to have paddles on the steering wheel like modern sport cars
Yes I'm sure transbrake is great to have, but it's about $500 and I am not sure I will be able to ever leave at high rpms, because of bad tracks. See what I mean?
Predator, I always race with my laptop so I could alter shift points quickly.
I'm reading good things about Circle-D, probably this or Yank, PTI, or Jake
I guess they are all around $900?Maybe someone already have developed such box to override PCM commands? It would be really nice to have paddles on the steering wheel like modern sport cars
02-09-2011, 07:07 AM
#5
if your gonna drive it a lot, yes to auto control-i dont drive mine much, but when i had it with a man v/b, got to be a pain everytime i stopped
a man 400 wasnt to bad, but that extra gear in a 4L80E added up
i went back to full auto
i used an FTI converter, im sure the others are good, but i liked talking right to the man (Greg) about it
a man 400 wasnt to bad, but that extra gear in a 4L80E added up
i went back to full auto
i used an FTI converter, im sure the others are good, but i liked talking right to the man (Greg) about it
02-09-2011, 08:39 AM
#7
Ground out the pin for tow/haul mode for 1 second.
*Most* PCMs I've tuned have a manual hold gear 1st and 2nd...they will stay in 2nd as long as the shifter is in that gear.
For 3rd, command the shift to shift to 3rd immediately, same for 4th.
It wont shift to 3rd until the shifter is in 3rd, and for 4th, there is no oil to shift to 4th, so it waits until the shifter is in 4th gear to shift.
*Most* PCMs I've tuned have a manual hold gear 1st and 2nd...they will stay in 2nd as long as the shifter is in that gear.
For 3rd, command the shift to shift to 3rd immediately, same for 4th.
It wont shift to 3rd until the shifter is in 3rd, and for 4th, there is no oil to shift to 4th, so it waits until the shifter is in 4th gear to shift.
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02-21-2011, 06:32 PM
#11
I think I almost made up my mind. I'm going to order built tranny from a a sponsor, capable of holding 900-1000HP, normal auto valve body. I guess it would be better on the strip to let PCM control it. In (not rare) cases I want to go around corner sideways, I would put in it 2nd gear and hope it won't select 1st.
I'm going with transbrake, better have it than not, in case I ever go to a good-prepped track. If not, I will just not use it. Correct, no?
Not decided on the converter now, but I guess I want something lockable under WOT. Don't really know why I would need it though Probably only for top-speed events.
Do these choices sound reasonable? Please advice! 4K for a tranny is actually like 5 monthly salaries here, a lot of money...
I'm going with transbrake, better have it than not, in case I ever go to a good-prepped track. If not, I will just not use it. Correct, no?
Not decided on the converter now, but I guess I want something lockable under WOT. Don't really know why I would need it though
Probably only for top-speed events.Do these choices sound reasonable? Please advice! 4K for a tranny is actually like 5 monthly salaries here, a lot of money...
03-06-2011, 07:37 PM
#12
What stall should I go for for street/strip car? Many recommend at least 3600 but some say 4000 drives at only a bit higher rpms in city but give .1-.2 at the strip.
Also, won't 3.73 gears I currently have in my 12 bolt rear be too much? Will I loose smth. in ET if I go lower gears (for mileage)?
Thanks!
Also, won't 3.73 gears I currently have in my 12 bolt rear be too much? Will I loose smth. in ET if I go lower gears (for mileage)?
Thanks!
04-28-2011, 07:54 PM
#17
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Talk to Jake at jakes performance he has designed his transbrake and with his manual valve body it can be set up to let the comp do the shifting or full manual. Then you get the best of both worlds and as for the brake when the time comes that you can use it you will be glad you have it. When the conditions are wrong for it don't. No harm done. As for converters talk to the main guys and feel em out I chose circle d in part for the reputation but mainly for chris' knowledge and willingness to help.oh yeah and did I say reputation? I also spoke with flt in person when I was in Chicago and they would be my only other choice for a trans. Great bunch of people.
The time has come to create "help to decide" thread again I'm doing a lot of reading on auto trannies but it's so new I still have a lot of questions so I need some help.
I decided to switch from M6 to 4L80E on my 383ci turbo (TC76). Eventually plan to squeeze some most of it, so probably around 1000hp. I daily drive it in summer and take it to the strip often, so it has to retain good street manners and no 8mpg mileage. I'm not after Mercedes-like comfort but wouldn't want to rev it to 2500 just to take off in traffic.
So here are few questions:
1) do I really need transbrake? tracks here are not prepped very good, often no glue even. And I know TB shocks the tires like dumping clutch, so more chances to just spin badly. On the other hand, it helps to build boost off the line, but I guess 2-step helps too? So do I need TB?
2) what are benefits of manual VB? if the PCM doesn't play stupid and change gear when I'm going sideways at 4000rpm, then I don't really need it?
3) what stall converter should I get?
4) if PCM controls tranny by putting voltage to some solenoids (or it's not that simple), then is it possible that I retain auto valve body, but make some kind of box that would force to change gears, perhaps via steering-wheel mounted paddles or smth.?
Thanks for you opinions
I'm doing a lot of reading on auto trannies but it's so new I still have a lot of questions so I need some help.I decided to switch from M6 to 4L80E on my 383ci turbo (TC76). Eventually plan to squeeze some most of it, so probably around 1000hp. I daily drive it in summer and take it to the strip often, so it has to retain good street manners and no 8mpg mileage. I'm not after Mercedes-like comfort but wouldn't want to rev it to 2500 just to take off in traffic.
So here are few questions:
1) do I really need transbrake? tracks here are not prepped very good, often no glue even. And I know TB shocks the tires like dumping clutch, so more chances to just spin badly. On the other hand, it helps to build boost off the line, but I guess 2-step helps too? So do I need TB?
2) what are benefits of manual VB? if the PCM doesn't play stupid and change gear when I'm going sideways at 4000rpm, then I don't really need it?
3) what stall converter should I get?
4) if PCM controls tranny by putting voltage to some solenoids (or it's not that simple), then is it possible that I retain auto valve body, but make some kind of box that would force to change gears, perhaps via steering-wheel mounted paddles or smth.?
Thanks for you opinions
