View Full Version : Axles to Cure Wheelhop


DrSpeed
02-09-2011, 11:42 AM
So, I guess a lot has changed since I first started looking at CTS-V's and finally pulled the trigger - Score!

So, back a year ago, Hendrix axles were the ones to get. I can't find them any more...

Now, Chris @ G Force is selling the axles to have.

And after talking to Luke at Lindsay, he said that the BMR pinion brace was a waste of money, and all it does is is transmit noise into the cab.

Is that still accurate?

What about the other parts from BMR? The subframe bushings and a torque arm looking thing:

BMR Wheel Hop Kit (http://www.bmrsuspension.com/index.cfm?page=products&vehicleid=8&maincatid=67&catid=198&productid=424)

Is that still a needed part? It sounds like axles just about cure it, short of being completely retarded.

On a side note, on a rainy day here (Seattle, go figure) I downshifted from 4-2, and pinned the throttle wide open. It did a slight sideways dance, and was politely greeted with massive wheel hop. This sht needs to get fixed.

punishmentcycle
02-09-2011, 11:55 AM
well either of the axle companies will work for u.. i have the BMR stuff and it workks for the most part but still get hop. ive dumped enough money into this car for a while so axles will have to wait till spring. the pinion brace is on mine just incase the diff blows it wont let the DS smack around. thats my opinion.

whisler151
02-09-2011, 12:36 PM
Either axle will work. I recommend Gforce. He is an active part of this forum (and the other) and doing some cool stuff for us V guys.

rand49er
02-09-2011, 02:49 PM
I think this is relevant ...

Since installing the Hendrix/DSS axles, I've done precious few 3500 RPM clutch dumps on dry pavement, but got zero WH each time even as I bounced off the rev limiter. It just burned.

I got caught in rain once since then, but with the family in the car, I didn't attempt to see if the WH was likewise cured by the axles on wet roads. I do recall it was pronounced in rain and on snow when I was stock ... way back when.

My point is, has anyone noticed WH with the new axles in rain/snow? As an observation, I would presume that such WH isn't as violent as when it's dry ... at least I think.

whisler151
02-09-2011, 03:02 PM
My point is, has anyone noticed WH with the new axles in rain/snow? As an observation, I would presume that such WH isn't as violent as when it's dry ... at least I think.

I have not attempted to induce wheelhop when wet. I typically take it easy when the roads are wet. I have done many launches in dry and one time at the track...I have not experienced wheelhop since installing the axles.

greddy91
02-09-2011, 03:45 PM
I have not attempted to induce wheelhop when wet. I typically take it easy when the roads are wet. I have done many launches in dry and one time at the track...I have not experienced wheelhop since installing the axles.

I did give it a go on wet surface with the passenger econo/BMR AWH/diff brace. Spun much more like a normal car would... I got a bit of a hop like warble at probably 5mph but nothing like the previous "driving over 10 speed bumps in a row" hop.

Dry though... I never noticed it hop at all. I'll admit I wasn't going out and doing 4K launches on the glass either though.

DrSpeed
02-09-2011, 05:15 PM
Thanks guys.

Has anyone done just the axles and not the BMR brace? I'd like to keep the vibration down in the car.

whisler151
02-09-2011, 05:23 PM
Thanks guys.

Has anyone done just the axles and not the BMR brace? I'd like to keep the vibration down in the car.

Here are axles and no brace or other wheel hop band aides.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpKFWvowfnU

07CTS-V
02-09-2011, 07:15 PM
It's pretty much the standard to just do the axles. The amount of hop tends to be proportional to rpms when the wheels are spinning. i.e. I used to get hop at 3000 rpms in the dry and 2000 in the wet. With just the Hendrix econo axle it went to 4000 in the dry. I have since installed both Gforce axles and it doesn't start to hop until the rpms spin up to 5000 rpms in the dry and about 3500 in the wet.

itsslow98
02-09-2011, 10:35 PM
Give hendrix a call, I reccomend them much more then anyone else.

DrSpeed
02-09-2011, 11:15 PM
Both axles are 300m? Id like to support a site vender. How's the customer service for either one?

07CTS-V
02-10-2011, 09:20 AM
itsslow98 and I have had completely opposite customer service from the two vendors. He had a good experience with Hendrix and I had a good experience with Gforce. We've had bad experiences with the other.

whisler151
02-10-2011, 09:32 AM
Hendrix is currently banned form this site and not a supporter on the Cadillac forum...I say go with Gforce.

Either way you will get rid of the majority of your wheel hop.

DrSpeed
02-10-2011, 09:34 AM
How the hell did that happen?

whisler151
02-10-2011, 12:03 PM
How the hell did that happen?

"Collections Ban" is all his profile says. He dropped off the Cadillac Forums a while back.

punishmentcycle
02-10-2011, 01:03 PM
How the hell did that happen?

you gotta pay to play

itsslow98
02-10-2011, 10:51 PM
Hey, all i gotta say is just cause a shop doesnt have someone on the forums everyday doesnt mean they dont turn a good product. If having someone posting on 18 forums a day means more then the product you put on your car, then good luck with that shit.

Bottom line, im gonna put on my car whatever product i think suits me and works the best, not who advertises the most and who belongs to a certain website. If you think Gforce is for you then by all means do it.

DrSpeed
02-11-2011, 01:09 AM
^^^

So how did those comments help me make a decision in what kind of axle to buy?

Being a noob, I'd like to get some feedback on what people are running. From the time I started looking for a V, Hendrix was here, and now they are banned. I had no idea if they didn't pay, piss somebody off, or was selling broke dick parts.

Tell you what, I gave Hendrix a call, since I can't find any prices anywhere, nor lead times on parts.

I haven't heard back all day. Hopefully they call back tomorrow.

itsslow98
02-11-2011, 01:14 AM
Im running the hendrix econo axle on the drivers side, no wheelhop on the street at all and have never had a problem with the product period. For 350 bucks it was some of the best money ive ever spent on the car.

serik21
02-11-2011, 04:49 AM
dr speed who tuned your cts-v im also from seattle

scatillac
02-11-2011, 05:51 AM
It sounds like axles just about cure it, short of being completely retarded.

Axles will do the trick (well, 99% of it) and are an excellent investment. :nod:

In addition to axles, the OEM pinion bushing will probably need to be replaced, since they're overly soft and prone to deterioration.

Neoprene will transmit a bit more sound that the stock bushing, but not nearly as much as Delrin. Ask me how I know. :emb:

Now, if someone only made a replacement cradle bushing set.......

07CTS-V
02-11-2011, 06:45 AM
I had the Hendrix econo axle installed on the driver side of my car and was very unimpressed. It came as bare metal and had the incorrect size clamps that did not fit the supplied boots. It removed about 1/2 of my wheelhop. This probably had more to do with the sizing of the Hendrix driver side axle being close to the '06-'07 stock size. It's possible that it works well in conjunction with the Hendrix passenger side axle. I decided to go with the Gforce set because their passenger side axle shaft is the larger diameter one. It is longer than the driver side and I felt more comfortable with making that side more rigid. The set of Gforce shafts reduced my hop by about 80-90%.

DrSpeed
02-11-2011, 12:11 PM
dr speed who tuned your cts-v im also from seattle

It as done by the guys at Horsepower Ranch.

Axles will do the trick (well, 99% of it) and are an excellent investment. :nod:

In addition to axles, the OEM pinion bushing will probably need to be replaced, since they're overly soft and prone to deterioration.

Neoprene will transmit a bit more sound that the stock bushing, but not nearly as much as Delrin. Ask me how I know. :emb:

Now, if someone only made a replacement cradle bushing set.......


Who makes this Neoprene bushing? They just wad up a wet suit and shove it in the hole? :confused:

DMM
02-11-2011, 12:38 PM
Hendrix is a stand up guy, got my Maggie from him (at a steal I might add) and his father was in the hospital at the time. I have heard that his father has since past away and he has been dealing with several family issues (my condolences if you are reading this Thomas). You can not fault the guy for having to take care of his family.

Anyhow, quite a few stand up vendors sell axle kits. Hendrix, G-Force, and Paschal Performance all sell proven solution's. I have done business with Thomas (Hendrix) and Clifford (Paschal), I have spoken with Chris (G-FORCE) as well. All are stand up guys who provide great service and will help anyway they can.

You can't go wrong here.

DrSpeed
02-11-2011, 01:59 PM
Hope everything is okay with Thomas - left another voicemail.

His cell is on...still rings.

serik21
02-11-2011, 04:37 PM
Dr.speed wat was your gains and wat are your mods?

DrSpeed
02-11-2011, 04:46 PM
It came that way...I just bought it!

liqidvenom
02-11-2011, 05:55 PM
I think this is relevant ...

Since installing the Hendrix/DSS axles, I've done precious few 3500 RPM clutch dumps on dry pavement, but got zero WH each time even as I bounced off the rev limiter. It just burned.

I got caught in rain once since then, but with the family in the car, I didn't attempt to see if the WH was likewise cured by the axles on wet roads. I do recall it was pronounced in rain and on snow when I was stock ... way back when.

My point is, has anyone noticed WH with the new axles in rain/snow? As an observation, I would presume that such WH isn't as violent as when it's dry ... at least I think.
i have hop on the street depending when the tires break loose and it also happens in both wet/snowy roads. just depends what rpm it is. some times it spins freely. but it hops alot higher up in the rpm range then before.

I have not attempted to induce wheelhop when wet. I typically take it easy when the roads are wet. I have done many launches in dry and one time at the track...I have not experienced wheelhop since installing the axles.

you are the only person i know who doesnt have wheel hop at the track. what 60' were you able to pull when you got no hop at all? and at what rpm did you launch at? some have gotten it out of the hole or higher up in the rpm range.

Gforce Engineering
02-12-2011, 12:24 AM
Give us a call, I'd be glad to talk axles.
Were around the shop half days on Saturday and all during the week from 9-6.
We make all our products in house, no middle man here :)

Thanks
Chris

DrSpeed
02-14-2011, 02:17 PM
Give us a call, I'd be glad to talk axles.
Were around the shop half days on Saturday and all during the week from 9-6.
We make all our products in house, no middle man here :)

Thanks
Chris

Left you a voicemail!

RADEoN
02-14-2011, 09:10 PM
Im running the hendrix econo axle on the drivers side, no wheelhop on the street at all and have never had a problem with the product period. For 350 bucks it was some of the best money ive ever spent on the car.

i have the same setup, and my car hops as bad, if not worse, than a stock axle.

rand49er
02-14-2011, 09:22 PM
i have the same setup, and my car hops as bad, if not worse, than a stock axle.Had it worked, you would've saved some serious buck$.

These may cost a bunch more, but they work exceedlingly well.


http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr189/rand49er/PICT0369.jpg

RADEoN
02-14-2011, 09:42 PM
i don't even care about wheelhop at this point, i'm about to set my car on fire.

DrSpeed
02-14-2011, 09:49 PM
Soo...Rad...sounds like there aren't ANY parts that would work well.

Gforce Engineering
02-14-2011, 10:17 PM
Left you a voicemail!

Sorry man, I just realized the # in my signature isn't our shop # anymore.
The shop # is 316-733-2100
I'll have to change my signature :)

Thanks
Chris

RADEoN
02-14-2011, 10:19 PM
I'd guess the set rand49er posted is pretty good. I'm so frustrated with this piece of shit car, its sickening. I don't beat on the car, and I break the tranny. Everyone else gets to dump the clutch at 35,000 rpm and run a 4 second quarter mile with no problems at all. Get my tranny out and see a brand new ls7 slave leaking all over the garage floor.

Fuck my car.

RADEoN
02-14-2011, 10:23 PM
Pisnuoff/07cts-v has a built ls3 with a pair of g force axles, and he let me drive his car, and while it DID hop a little, it spent more time stuck to the road. I think his tires were also a culprit in the hopping.

07CTS-V
02-15-2011, 12:07 PM
My hop is exaggerated because a long time ago I cut the top of my cradle bushings with a razor blade to put some big-ass-washers in there. Since then the cradle hits the body without the bushing hitting first so the hop sounds worse than it actually is. The roads were also really cold (something like 20 outside) and a little salty when RADEoN drove it, the Toyo Proxes T1R's do not like the cold either. When it's above about 70, there is virtually no hop.

JJSimon904
02-15-2011, 01:03 PM
i don't even care about wheelhop at this point, i'm about to set my car on fire.
Just get rid of it and go buy a Honda Accord.

07CTS-V
02-15-2011, 01:28 PM
i don't even care about wheelhop at this point, i'm about to set my car on fire.

That's the frustration talking. You've really only been chasing the one issue, grinding into gear. You swapped a few parts in an attempt to cure the problem but, they didn't. At least now you have eliminated everything else that it could be (clutch, slave and master) and have it narrowed down to being absolutely sure that you have to rebuild the transmission. With the exception of the master, I would have recommended changing everything that you changed anyhow when you took out the trans to rebuild it. The only thing you are out, really, is your (and my) time.

DrSpeed
02-28-2011, 02:31 PM
Sorry man, I just realized the # in my signature isn't our shop # anymore.
The shop # is 316-733-2100
I'll have to change my signature :)

Thanks
Chris

Chris - are your axles back in stock?

Gforce Engineering
02-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Chris - are your axles back in stock?

They were but not now, we sold every axle that we have in work.
These axles have been selling like crazy and we've been selling 2-3 sets a day. We ran a batch last week but they are still in heat treat and everyone of them are pre-sold.
Were going to start another batch this week, this time we'll run a really big batch to keep ahead of the curve.

Thanks
Chris

CTSVBiggie
02-28-2011, 02:44 PM
ill be ordering these eventually.

DrSpeed
02-28-2011, 03:08 PM
How do we get on the waiting list?

CTSVBiggie
02-28-2011, 03:14 PM
My guess would be the simple, pay for a set ahead of time. Which for me is gonna have to wait. Gotta buy a airsoft gun... That stuff is addicting. One time and I wanna go every week.

DrSpeed
02-28-2011, 05:09 PM
They were but not now, we sold every axle that we have in work.
These axles have been selling like crazy and we've been selling 2-3 sets a day. We ran a batch last week but they are still in heat treat and everyone of them are pre-sold.
Were going to start another batch this week, this time we'll run a really big batch to keep ahead of the curve.

Thanks
Chris

Pulled the trigger - ordered today!

Biggie's right...$$$ gets me a place in line...:D

jvtex
03-22-2011, 01:01 AM
hey everyone,

I'm new to the CTS-V world, just recently purchased a 2004 with 39K miles, but not new to racing. I have a 2001 Z06 that I've been running in ASP Auto-x events, drag racing and other forms of competition for the past 7 years. And all though I'm not clear on the geometry of the CTS-V, yet, I due know that under- valved or warn-out shocks and soft(er) springs causes wheel hop on launching or extreme wheel motion! So just something else to think about.

I have Penske doubles on the Vette and re-valve them every year. I've also had 3 different Spring rates in the rear. I have experienced wheel hop in the Vette under launching and attempt suspension tuning to get rid of it.
I'm looking into this wheel-hop issue with the CTS-V's and they may need some extra dampening or higher spring rate to control this. Just my opinion.

I may be completely wrong, I dunno? but conventional thinking and general knowledge of Suspension tuning makes me believe that under valved shocks and stock springs will cause this.

Joel

itsslow98
03-22-2011, 01:50 AM
I know the GTO guys have good success running drag bags, I havent seen any V owners try it. I did the drivers side axle and my hop is gone on the street so i havent bothered. Maybe the drag bag stiffens it up enough to eliminate the hop.

whisler151
03-22-2011, 11:26 AM
I know the GTO guys have good success running drag bags, I havent seen any V owners try it. I did the drivers side axle and my hop is gone on the street so i havent bothered. Maybe the drag bag stiffens it up enough to eliminate the hop.

I think some may have had luck with it. But it seems that the axles were the most effective band aid.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/153567-drag-bag-v.html

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/163990-so-did-drag-bags-work.html

JJSimon904
03-22-2011, 11:27 AM
Everyone I know that has tried drag bags either returned them or sold them to someone else.