Conversions & Hybrids - Help, low oil pressure in new swap




magntik
03-23-2011, 08:35 PM
Ok, so I've been working over the winter to swap a '06 LS2 from a Trailblazer SS into my '67 Firebird.

I just started it up last Saturday and have around 40PSI when the oil is cold but drop to 0 psi when it warms up.

What I do wrong, or is the motor/oil pump toast?

I'm running a RetroLSX oil pan, and Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic.

If I didn't get the o ring on the pick up tube seated correctly would this be the result?

I didn't remove the front or rear covers and I have no leaks anywhere.

I'm not sure how long the motor sat before I got it but suppose to have around 50K miles. Everything looked good when I had the pan and heads off.

So I emptied the oil, looked ok. so I put new oil back in and put about 6 ounces of seafoam in the oil. ran it for a bit and can see about 14 psi at idle but still drops to zero after a bit of idling.

Gonna try again tomorrow to run it, then gonna change the oil to 10W30 and see what the pressure is like. If that don't help then I'm gonna start with pulling the pan.

Any help or ideas ?


pdsq98gt
03-23-2011, 09:13 PM
The most common cause of no oil pressure is the pickup o-ring. Sounds like a great place to start to me.

bczee
03-23-2011, 09:30 PM
+1 on the most common problem is the O-Ring, pinched, or the wrong sized one.

The second one would be that the pickup is not seated correctly. Did you check the pickup and bottom of oil pan clearance ?.. mine had about 3/4" between the bottom and the pickup.

Did you take anything else apart..the Oil Gallery plugs ? Check you oil filter, replace it.

Good luck..

BC


Pop N Wood
03-24-2011, 06:46 AM
Make sure your gauge is accurate.

Steve68
03-24-2011, 07:06 AM
Exactly^^^^^^^^!!!

magntik
03-24-2011, 07:42 AM
I pretty sure the gauge is accurate, they are new Dakota Digital VHX series. and secondly I can "hear" the loss of oil pressure, the valve train gets lound and pitons sound like they're knocking.

82lsx cutlass
03-24-2011, 07:49 AM
I would check pick up and if not buy a new pump.

kevin87turbot
03-24-2011, 08:17 AM
I did the same thing in my hybrid hot rod. At an idle, it had 0 oil pressure when it was warm. I had to pull the engine back out. I installed a new oil pump O-ring and it was good to go. Make sure you get the right O-ring for your application. GM had different ones for different applications.
They are color coded for a reason, like stated above, if the pickup tube has a recessed area where the o-ring goes you need the thicker RED o-ring. The trucks use this design.

GM Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring (1st Design)
12557752

BLUE SEAL
Specifics:

* Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring ea.
* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (1999-2000 LS V8) 1st design
* F-Body (1998-2002)
* Cadillac CTS-V (2004-2007)
* Corvette (1997-2008)
* Thickness = 3.55mm (0.140")
ID = 23.60mm (0.930")



GM Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring (2nd Design)
12584922

RED SEAL
Specifics:

* Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring ea.
* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (1999-2000 LS V8 engines with 2nd design pick-up tube)
* Trailblazer (2003-2008 With LS V8 engine)
* Hummer H2 (2003-2008)
* Hummer H3 (2008 With LS V8 engine)
* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (2001-2008 LS V8 engines)
* W- Body (2006-2008 With LS V8 engine - Impala, Lacrosse, Grand Prix)
* Thickness = 4.20mm (0.165")
ID = 20.69mm (0.815")

82lsx cutlass
03-24-2011, 08:22 AM
My muscle car oil pan cam with with three a black,green and red o-ring the red one was already on the pick up tube.

hyespeeder
03-24-2011, 10:14 AM
Nice post ... That explains my problem as well ... had 60 psi when i first started my new motor

now its at 0.... i got the new blue ones i though were a upgrade from red....

they did fit kinda loose so i put 2 blue ones and it seemed good but i guess not


I will try the red ones now

bczee
03-24-2011, 02:53 PM
You guys might want to check in the the BRP oil pump/pickup Gridle.. great piece.. ! Cheap insurance.. !

http://www.brphotrods.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BRP&Product_Code=LS1-G&Category_Code=CNV1

Earl Filter
03-24-2011, 03:09 PM
You can also use just a 2nd bolt with a large washer on it to catch the other side of the tube. That's what I did, but I'll only know if it worked when I start the engine!

magntik
03-24-2011, 04:49 PM
Which o-ring is the right one with the RetroLSX pick up tube?

I just used the one that cam with the pan.

Looks like the motor is coming back out.

the_merv
03-24-2011, 05:00 PM
I run a small bolt and nut through the hole that is there and so far it's held.:)
My muscle car oil pan cam with with three a black,green and red o-ring the red one was already on the pick up tube.

Mine came with just one..it was from the dealership too.

magntik
03-24-2011, 09:02 PM
This might be a waste of time, but I think I'm going to try to lift the motor enough the get the oil pan out of the way and see if I can check/replace the o ring without pulling the motor. If not out comes the motor and I think I'll go ahead and replace the pump while it's out, even though I think it's ok. Cheap ($185) insurance.

Here's a dumb question...Is there a right or better way to install the o ring and pick up tube to make sure it's done right...the second time? LOL

82lsx cutlass
03-24-2011, 09:08 PM
what color is the o-ring that came with ur pick up magntik?

the_merv
03-24-2011, 09:10 PM
Just make sure it's the correct size and seated properly.

I think your pump is fine.

82lsx cutlass
03-24-2011, 09:13 PM
i would do the same.

magntik
03-24-2011, 09:20 PM
what color is the o-ring that came with ur pick up magntik?

I don't remember what the color was. I have learned a lot since I started this in November, and I really didn't pay that much attention to it. It came with the RetroLSX kit and I used it. Sad thing is I already sold the Trailblazer SS pan and pick-up so I can even check what was in it.

Just make sure it's the correct size and seated properly.



I do I figure that out?
Do I buy one for the Trailblazer SS pump, or the RetroLSX pick up???

Any tips to make sure it's seated properly?

82lsx cutlass
03-24-2011, 09:40 PM
try it and im pretty sure it going to be a red o-ring thats what came on my 6.0 and it cam out of a 2500.

the_merv
03-24-2011, 09:42 PM
I've always put them in to where there is a little pressure required to hold it inplace before bolting up. No resistance means the seal is too small and stretched. If it doesn't fit the hole then it's too big..as in it's squeezing out the sides.

That's usually how I check it.

magntik
03-27-2011, 08:00 PM
so I was able to remove the bolts in the motor mounts and trans mount and raise the engine far enough to pull the pan, and pick up.

I had the blue o ring on the pick up. I couldn't tell if it was pinched and it looks ok now that its out.

Gonna go to the dealership tomorrow and get a red one.

Glad I ended up having to pull the pan because the Seafoam broke down and released some nasty crap to the bottom of the pan.
And I was able to get it out. Looked like some got sucked into the pickup so that could be some of my issue. we'll see after I get it back together.

Thanks for all the input.

Jeremy

Old Geezer
03-28-2011, 07:50 AM
If there's crap sucked into the pump, it would be a good idea to clean it out, and not just rely on the o'ring being the problem.....

rp0029
03-29-2011, 08:57 PM
How exactly is this ring supposed to sit in the pump? I put my autokraft pan's pickup ring into the pump and then put the pickup in after. I tried putting the ring on over the pickup and it wouldn't fit - the ring was too big and I didn't want to force it. Should I remove the pan and do it again?

Also, what ring for a 2006 lq4 from a silverado?

garys 68
03-30-2011, 06:27 AM
I put a CTS-V oil pan (blue seal) on a 2005 LM7 engine (red seal). What was explained to me is that early truck motors had the thinner blue seal that was being pinched at factory installation. The later truck motors had a groove around the seal seating area on the tube and used a thicker red seal to compensate for that.
The CTS-V oil tube didn't have the groove, so I used the thinner blue. Not sure which style the Retro oil pickup tube used.

Jeff Smith
03-30-2011, 06:40 AM
You guys might want to check in the the BRP oil pump/pickup Gridle.. great piece.. ! Cheap insurance.. !

http://www.brphotrods.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BRP&Product_Code=LS1-G&Category_Code=CNV1
I agree with ^^^^^. I would check on o-ring and replace new..

magntik
03-30-2011, 10:20 PM
So when I went to the Dealership on Monday to get a new o-ring, the plan was to buy both a red and the blue and compare it to what I took out. And test fit each.

Well the Parts guy said they don't carry the blue one, he could get it, but he did have plenty of red ones.
Says that the practice there was to put the thicker red o-ring in EVERY vehicle.
Says the techs are having a lot better luck and few issues by using the red. So they quit stocking the blue.

So I took his word for it, a tech happen to come by and the parts guy stopped him and we talked for a few minutes.
Super helpful.

He recommended I use oil or vasoline to lube the o ring real well, and get this told me to put it on the tube and put the tube in the oil pump, and take it out, the put it back in carefully. Said I should almost feel a "pop" if everything fits together right. said the second time I put it in the pump should go in smoothly. He also said to tighten the bolt completely at the pump before tightening the nut at the other end, so less of a chance to shift.

I did exactly as he said, and damn if he wasn't right.

Put it all back together and have 26psi @ idle and over 40psi cruising.

My Retro pan came with a blue one. guessing it's the GM one?? wasn't able to verify. The red one fit a lot better and was obviously thicker.

rp0029
03-31-2011, 06:34 AM
So does the o ring go up in the pump or at the base of the tube when in the pump?

46Coupe
03-31-2011, 07:09 AM
o-ring slides onto the pickup tube and then insert the pickup tube carefully into the pump and toque the bolt properly.

rp0029
04-02-2011, 04:35 PM
so I was test fitting my lq4 in my 68 camaro and I really didn't want to pull the pan. I had installed the oil pump pickup by putting the o ring in the pump and installing the tube and read on this post what I did was wrong. I'm sure glad I pulled that pan. My o ring was totally shredded:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/killmrryan/IMG_20110402_150922.jpg

Too bad the stealership was closed. I take it the o ring sits on the tube line this and then you pop it into the engine?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/killmrryan/IMG_20110402_151015.jpg

the_merv
04-03-2011, 02:11 AM
Yup..

Steve68
04-03-2011, 01:00 PM
Nice job, and good info on the o-ring, I don't know what I used but it had good resistance going in!! hopefully it will work,

ErkDog
05-10-2011, 10:19 PM
Thanks guys! I am having similar issue with my '06 Silverado 5.3L - did a head/cam swap and now valve train klanks like a can of marbles. Tried almost everything. Came across this article and some others recommending replacing the o-ring. I sure hope this works because I am out of ideas to get this thing to quite down - and out of money!

Here's what I upgraded to:
PRC stage 2.5 5.3L heads (dual springs!)
TSP Torquer v2 cam
Comp Cams OE roller lifters
Comp Cams pushrods (Comp PR length checker tool gave me a 7.375 w/ .05 preload)
Nelson Performance Tune

After starting it up for the first time, it rattled really bad.

So, here's what I did to remedy the problem:
Thought maybe my measurement was off so tried different length pushrods.
7.375, 7.400, 7.425, 7.450 and nothing helped.
Remeasured again and still get 7.375 so put them back in.
Thought maybe I had a bad lifter or two so I replaced the lifters.
Out of money. Out of patience. Out of time (wife wants the garage back!).

Last ditch effort:
Pay a shop to replace the o-ring with a new red o-ring.
Taking it in tomorrow morning. Will let y'all know how it goes.

ErkDog
05-12-2011, 08:32 PM
Got my truck back and it sounds much better with the new o-ring but there's still a noticeable tick. Sowing machine? No, different sound. Like a bad lifter or a lose rocker. The only thing left is to swap out the oil pump for a high pressure one - and that is a big job for me. The ticking is tolerable for now... until the wife lets me back into the garage again :S I'll plan on upgrading(downgrading?) my PRC heads with PAC Single Beehive valve springs - they will still handle my .595/.598 lift and not be too demanding on my lifters and oil pump. A relatively inexpensive job I can do myself.

Thanks guys for all the info on this thread!!

Goldhawg
05-14-2011, 04:06 PM
I put a CTS-V oil pan (blue seal) on a 2005 LM7 engine (red seal). What was explained to me is that early truck motors had the thinner blue seal that was being pinched at factory installation. The later truck motors had a groove around the seal seating area on the tube and used a thicker red seal to compensate for that.
The CTS-V oil tube didn't have the groove, so I used the thinner blue. Not sure which style the Retro oil pickup tube used.

Since I haven't put mine in, thought you all might like pics to see. The truck one is on the left in the pics, the CTS-V on the right. You can definitely see the indentation for the truck necessitating the fatter o-ring. But the red one does fit on the CTS-V pickup; think I'll use it based on the other post above and feedback from the dealership.

patooyee
11-11-2012, 05:54 PM
Any long-term reports on the success off the red o-ring on the tube meant for the blue one?