View Full Version : 1st hpde, heres what I learned.....


FASTFATBOY
03-29-2011, 05:29 PM
At a BARE minimum, here is what you need.

Race pads and fluid, cooling ducts on the brakes. I ran Hawk dtc30 on the front, HP+ on the rear. No fade but I was braking 100 feet back of the #4 marker and still killed the stock rotors, 2 sets in 2 days. Last 2 sessions I was coasting 100 feet then braking 100 feet before the #4 marker. Pads look good, rotors are toast.

You need good fluid and a cooler on the power steering pump. 1st day session 2 it broke and blew the cap off the pump, did the same thing to 2 more caps. Day 2 I drilled a hole in the top of a new cap, put a rag over the top and Ichanged the fluid. Still burned the fluid, pump is toasted.

1 quart over on oil, I used 1 quart per day so check it.

Water wetter in radiator, temp was fine.

Synthetic fluid in rear, I put it in mine and its making whining noises when turning, may have ruined it without synthetic.

Trans seems fine, I did put Mobil 1 in though.

Good high temp fluid in clutch, I had to bleed mine the last session of day two with good fluid in it.

This was a 2 day event at Barber in Birmingham Al.

mitchntx
03-29-2011, 07:04 PM
I don't know what group you entered with, but I cannot believe that an HPDE organizer would allow a green student to drive hard enough to trash a set of rotors in 20 minute stints.

As far as your PS woes go, I venture a guess based upon your trashing your brakes, you were zinging the motor. Typical, novice mistake. Use the torque, Luke. ;)

No reason to spin the motor over 5500 in an HPDE. Remember, there is no prize for winning practice.

At a bare minimum ... no.

I've raced wheel to wheel on Raybestos rotors and Carbotech pads without ducting and can go weekends without braking issues you saw. Pads and rotors need to be properly seasoned for hard braking. You can't just go out and hammer them and expect them to last.

But then again, I would never expect a DE organization to allow a first-timer to hammer the car first time out.

Your experience was not good and now you have a mind-set that you must spend hundreds of dollars on consumables to participate.

And this is just not the case.

FASTFATBOY
03-29-2011, 07:39 PM
I did bed the pads in, pads are fine rotors are warped.

I shifted at 5500 by the tach which is probably 5000 these tach are slow.

At Barber I only shift from 3rd to 4th three times per lap stay in 4th most all the way around and lug the motor.

My instructor is a competitive race driver. He bumped me into the intermediate group on day 2 and let me solo last 2 sessions.

Guess I was doing ok for a new b.

FASTFATBOY
03-29-2011, 07:45 PM
Sessions were 30 minutes.

Actually most shifts were made around 5000 rpm Mitch.

The car would top 105 mph down the front stretch. Before I started coasting to save the brakes.

This was my second HPDE first with this car, I also have scca solo experience.

MeentSS02
03-29-2011, 08:46 PM
I shifted at 5500 by the tach which is probably 5000 these tach are slow.

If you shifted at 5500 on the tach, and suspect the tach is slow (which it is in the first couple gears), your actual RPMs would be higher, not lower than indicated.

FASTFATBOY
03-29-2011, 09:49 PM
If you shifted at 5500 on the tach, and suspect the tach is slow (which it is in the first couple gears), your actual RPMs would be higher, not lower than indicated.

I only used 3rd and 4th, motor was not under any strain lol. I was in 4th for the majority of the lap.

FASTFATBOY
03-29-2011, 09:51 PM
Heres some video from the only car I couldnt pass in Novice on day 1, I show up in his front glass at about 3:30. The film car is a Porsche 911 Carerra 4S. Hes Fast!

Im in the Pewter Z28..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4XwVerJTzE

mitchntx
03-30-2011, 10:32 AM
I did bed the pads in, pads are fine rotors are warped.

I shifted at 5500 by the tach which is probably 5000 these tach are slow.

At Barber I only shift from 3rd to 4th three times per lap stay in 4th most all the way around and lug the motor.

My instructor is a competitive race driver. He bumped me into the intermediate group on day 2 and let me solo last 2 sessions.

Guess I was doing ok for a new b.

With all due respect, there is no way you could have properly bedded that second set of rotors.

Sounds like you did great on track. All I'm saying is that your results and experience is not the norm ... shouldn't be the norm.

I've had students who very well could have blown through a set of brakes and tires in a weekend based on the way they were handling the car. I tell them to let the car do the handling ... we're just along for the ride.

It was my job to make their experience enjoyable, get them home with a whole car and keep them coming back for more.

If a student discovered at the end of the weekend it was going to cost them a grand in tires and a grand in brakes and fluids for a weekend, they'd never come back.

$2K is 2/3 of my annual racing budget.

FASTFATBOY
03-30-2011, 11:05 AM
With all due respect, there is no way you could have properly bedded that second set of rotors.

Sounds like you did great on track. All I'm saying is that your results and experience is not the norm ... shouldn't be the norm.

I've had students who very well could have blown through a set of brakes and tires in a weekend based on the way they were handling the car. I tell them to let the car do the handling ... we're just along for the ride.

It was my job to make their experience enjoyable, get them home with a whole car and keep them coming back for more.

If a student discovered at the end of the weekend it was going to cost them a grand in tires and a grand in brakes and fluids for a weekend, they'd never come back.

$2K is 2/3 of my annual racing budget.

I did, in fact bed the properly per instructions on the box, let them cool for an hour and a half, almost two hours sitting in the pits before going out.

Rotors are badly warped, it needed ducts. Pads have a lot left on them.

If you are gonna DRIVE the car and not putt around it needs better brakes. 3900 lbs of f body slowing from 105 mph is a lot to ask of the stock brakes.

Rest assured the car will have c6 brakes, ducts, psc pump with cooler next time out. And possibly frame connectors roll bar a harnesses.

I will be prepared next trip.

mitchntx
03-30-2011, 11:18 AM
Yes, 2 tons is a lot to whoa up.

But understand, my CMC car weighs 3350 with me in it and I ran 12" stock rotors using C5 calipers w/o ducts for years.

And I was doing anything but putting around. ;)

http://vimeo.com/13142383


Edit:
And this is all 3rd and 4th gear driving shifting at 5-5.3K. The shift light is set to 5300.

http://vimeo.com/21041214

Andy1
03-30-2011, 02:14 PM
Sounds like you enjoyed your days at the track. I think most that are new (and many that are not so new) to driving on the track have a tendency to over drive the car. Last millisecond deep braking seems high on the list of what many deem important to going fast, and it is; but just not yet. If I may opine, you'd be better served by smooth driving concentrating on hitting your marks, getting the car set for a good entry, correct apex, keep it rolling through the corner, and get the car pointed right on exit. Do it for a lot of laps so that you're not chasing the track, and not chasing the car. The benefit is that your brakes and tires will last longer (I think this is where Mitchntx was heading in his post) and you'll ultimately be going faster. A little coasting before braking is not going to hurt your lap times significantly at this point. The most important thing is to have fun!

Andy1

FASTFATBOY
03-30-2011, 02:38 PM
Sounds like you enjoyed your days at the track. I think most that are new (and many that are not so new) to driving on the track have a tendency to over drive the car. Last millisecond deep braking seems high on the list of what many deem important to going fast, and it is; but just not yet. If I may opine, you'd be better served by smooth driving concentrating on hitting your marks, getting the car set for a good entry, correct apex, keep it rolling through the corner, and get the car pointed right on exit. Do it for a lot of laps so that you're not chasing the track, and not chasing the car. The benefit is that your brakes and tires will last longer (I think this is where Mitchntx was heading in his post) and you'll ultimately be going faster. A little coasting before braking is not going to hurt your lap times significantly at this point. The most important thing is to have fun!

Andy1

At first I was braking at the #4 marker, after 4 laps and the shaking started. I backed up 50 feet from #4, then 100 feet, then coasting to 100 feet before #4.

No doubt I have a lot to learn, I understand that for sure. But you ain't gonna learn proper braking and turn in with no brakes.

mitchntx
03-31-2011, 11:52 AM
But you ain't gonna learn proper braking and turn in with no brakes.

And by your explanation of events, you can't be consistent if you kill your brakes in the first 3 laps.

Had you began the session braking at the 100' back marker and rolling through the turns, you would have had less frustration through the whole session.

The car has to be good for the whole session, not just a couple laps.

You will definitely scrub speed by turning. Use it to your advantage.

Best instruction I ever received was when I took a school and drove Mazda 6s. Keeping momentum up is key. And you can't do that while mashing the middle pedal.