xBRadX

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone have a list of the injectors for which there is data supplied in Greg Banish's DVD? It would be nice to know this prior to dropping the $250.

Thanks!

69LT1Bird

iTrader: (1)

None of this should be proprietary, in fact it should help sales if people actually know if the injectors they bought or are planning on buying are covered or not. Remember, you need the DVD and the injector date to make them work. Just getting the data from someone will not show you how to apply the values in your tables, its not just a copy and paste. If you buy the DVD and follow the instructions, your tuning experience will be a lot smoother and your engine will run a lot better.

24# Light Blue Top
FRPP M-9593-A302 1994 Cobra
Bosch "Blue Top"
_______________________________________
24# FRPP Skinny
FRPP M-9593-AA302 2001 Cobra
Bosch 280 155 931 28#/hr @ 3 bar
GM 12561462
_______________________________________
30# Red Top Fat
FRPP 30#
FRPP M-9593-B302
Bosch red top (EV1, "fat" body)
30#/hr @ 3 bar
_______________________________________
30# Red Skinny
FRPP M-9593-BB302
Bosch red body (EV6, "skinny" body)
_______________________________________
39# Blue Skinny
FRPP M-9593-m39 2003 Cobra
Bosch 42#/hr @ 3 bar
Cobra Dual Cone Injector
_______________________________________
42# Green top
FRPP M-9593-f302 1999-03 Lightning
Bosch green top 42#/hr @ 3 bar
_______________________________________
47# GT500
FRPP M-9593-G302
47#/hr @ 3 bar
GT500 Dual Cone Injector
_______________________________________
SD 60# Tall
FRPP M-9593-LU60
Siemens 60#/hr @ 3 bar
_______________________________________
SD 60# Shorty
Siemens FI114962 61#/hr @ 3 bar
Minitimer Connector Deka IV
Single 26 deg Cone
_______________________________________
SD 80# Cobrajet
FRPP M-9593-LU80
Siemens 80#/hr @ 3 bar
Dual Cone Ford Cobrajet OE Injector

xBRadX

iTrader: (1)

Applying the data should be relatively easy compared to actually GETTING the data.

I'm glad I asked before buying. The owner of the car in question has installed P/N: 110324.

As seen here: http://www.siemensdeka.com/index.php...products_id=13

Here is some data from Siemens that may be completely adequate: http://siemensdeka.com/specsheets/FI114992cs.jpg

Perhaps you can explain the "psid" units in the cal summary. This is a pressure delta between what exactly? I've emailed them and didn't get a response.

I just see this situation coming up more often and I'd rather not monkey around with offsets, short pulse adders, and VE "massaging" just to get the car to run right.

Just to be clear. This isn't one of those "I want free data" threads. I just didn't want to spend $250 without knowing if this particular set of injectors were listed. From what I can tell, they are not.

Thanks for the good info.

turbolx

The DVD includes all the injector data that was posted on the FRPP website for their own injectors. Some of the FRPP part numbers cross reference with injectors that other people are selling, but it's just not possible for me to track that.

I converted everything from the native Ford units over to GM style units and included the final answers for the raw data conversion in the DVD's data disc. Like was mentioned above, it's raw data so understanding the proper way to interpolate and apply this data is part of the TRAINING that you pay for in the DVD.

One key point here is that GM and Ford have two very different definitions for "offset". You can't simply use Ford offset numbers in a GM ECU and expect it to work right.

Although the data in the link seems to be in Ford format, they're not FRPP injectors so I'm not sure if we can trust the source. Looking at the high slope, they're 75#/hr injectors which aren't Ford racing parts. I could theoretically run the numbers to convert them to GM units, but I'm not sure I have full confidence in the source of the data. If I release the data, I want to be sure it's trustworthy. If someone can get me an actual report on these injectors from the Ford SciLab, I could have more confidence in releasing the converted data.

Regardless, the FRPP 60's are really 72.5#/hr at GM pressure (good to about 1000hp) and the FRPP 80's are really over 90#/hr (good for well over 1200hp) so I don't see the need to unknown 75's and their potential headaches...

xBRadX

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply Greg.

Unfortunately I don't have control over which injectors people install in their vehicles.

I'm just trying to get the foundation right so that I don't have to do so many workarounds. We just need Paul Yaw to characterize every injector on earth and provide data (for free of course ).

I see you'll be in NY in July. I'm the proud owner of one of HT's old "shop tools." Hopefully I can make it up there for the class. It's 100% EFILive right?

turbolx

I understand the difficulties of owner supplied parts when it comes to installs and tuning. As a former shop owner, I can tell you that we had two different installation rates depending on whether you bought parts from us or not.

When it comes to tuning, it's more black and white. Either the parts work or they don't. I am not going to waste time chasing my tail on the dyno trying to "make something work" where I have no starting data at all, especially when there are plenty of good, affordable injector options out there that would work. The customers expect to pay a certain price for tuning and I highly doubt they're going to pay double that just because it takes a LOT longer to get their injectors characterized.

The other option is that you pretend the injectors are OK or the "same as stock" for some of the tables and bake a bunch of errors into the tune. Then when the vehicle has weird driveability quirks or fuel delivery issues, you have no solution AND the customer complains. No thanks. I find it's much easier in the long run to just plan for success from the beginning. This usually means using injectors that I actually have good data on. Let the customer put his other bargain injectors back up on eBay.

You're certainly welcome to join us in July. Email me directly offline and I can work out the details.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I'm going to bring this back from the dead:

47# GT500
FRPP M-9593-G302
47#/hr @ 3 bar
GT500 Dual Cone Injector
______________________

Is that a terrible option for the LS1 with the dual cone spray?

mrvedit

I'll document details later, but I just switched from DeatschWerks 42lb (@3bar) injectors which had all kinds of problems including bad tuning specs, to FIC's unmodified Bosch EV14 52lb (@3bar which is 60lb @4bar) injectors which are excellent. My new engine (LS3 419 stroker, 239/251 cam) starts and runs better, has near perfect bank-to-bank balance, and with the supplied tuning specs are giving me a very linear response at low throttle.
These injectors are not yet on their website, but give Jon at FIC a call if interested.