Chevrolet Performance LSX Challenge Series and LSX Shootout - 2012 Season Thoughts/Ideas

I think we could take notes from the NMRA. I think one could take the rules for those classes and adapt to the LSX platform. I believe it would open new classes for MANY new competitors. I realize this is early and incomplete, but here is an example:

FACTORY STOCK

Basically this would an entry level naturally aspirated class for stock type suspension, stock type transmissions, and stock cubic inches with room for typical honing and etc... The weights are just average and I realize there are stock cube cars that weigh 2900 pounds with driver, but these would be an average to be able to include a larger amount of cars. It's easier to add weight to a car than to take weight from it.

Class Overview
Factory Stock is designed for naturally aspirated small block 1997 and newer Corvettes, 1998-2002 and 2010 Camaros, 1998-2002 Firebirds, and 2004-2006 GTO. Factory Stock entries are limited to LS1, LS2, LS3, and LS6 engine types. Engines are permitted a maximum of 348 CID
for LS1 and LS6, and 364 CID for LS2 and LS3.

Qualifying Information, Ladder Type, & Tree
All Run, NHRA Sportsman Ladder, Pro .400 tree, Heads-Up.

Base Weights:
ENGINE POWER ADDER BASE CI BASE WEIGHT
LS1/LS6 NONE 348 3300
LS2/LS3 NONE 364 3350

Maximum Cubic Inches - 364 CID.

Only TH350, TH400, 4L60E, 6L80E, and T56 Transmissions Allowed. No Faceplated or Proshifted Transmissions Allowed. Deduct 50 pounds for OEM Type Transmissions (4L60, 6L80, and T56).
GM OEM Stock Casting heads may deduct 25lbs. from base weight. See section 1.17
Note: 15 lbs/cu. In. penalty applies for cubic inches over weight break limit.
Note: All weights are with driver & rounded down to the five pound increment. Ex: A calculated weight of 3228 would be
required to weigh 3225 lbs. with driver at scales.

You could add another class similar to this class with the following additions for an entry level power adder class.
Nitrous: Limit jet size to 175 hp on a plate similar to Real Street Rules
Supercharger: Limit to Procharger P1SC or D1SC, Vortech G or S Trim (Thoughts on more???)
Turbocharger: Limit to 76mm, No Billet Wheel or Ball-Bearing Turbos allowed

Base Weights:
ENGINE POWER ADDER BASE CI BASE WEIGHT
LS1/LS6 Nitrous 348 3200
LS1/LS6 Supercharger 348 3250
LS1/LS6 Turbo 348 3300
LS2/LS3 Nitrous 364 3300
LS2/LS3 Supercharger 364 3350
LS2/LS3 Turbo 364 3400

Maximum Cubic Inches - 364 CID.

Stock Type Suspension and Stock Type OEM Transmissions same as above class

Only TH350, TH400, 4L60E, 6L80E, and T56 Transmissions Allowed. No Faceplated or Proshifted Transmissions Allowed. Deduct 50 pounds for OEM Type Transmissions (4L60, 6L80, and T56).
GM OEM Stock Casting heads may deduct 25lbs. from base weight. See section 1.17
Note: 15 lbs/cu. In. penalty applies for cubic inches over weight break limit.
Note: All weights are with driver & rounded down to the five pound increment. Ex: A calculated weight of 3228 would be
required to weigh 3225 lbs. with driver at scales.

AGAIN THESE ARE JUST IDEAS! Please don't flame for this, but I believe it would open many doors for more LSX racers, increase car counts, and have better opportunities for everyone involved. Back in the LS1Tech North vs. South Shootouts we had larger car counts and had some awesome cars especially in the Factory Stock classes. Remember Thunder, Texas Speed, Jason 99T/A, Futral and other shops all invloved running door to door and pushing the limits.

Max ci in factory stock for a LS3 would be 364?

How many ci is 6.2L again? Could've sworn it was closer to 376.

:Trollface:

Just messin

Great idea, but the .400 pro tree on a stock cube engine will be a challenge. If you have a trans brake you will be able to hit the tree. Most people with a stock or lightly mod LS more then likely will not have a trans brake. I need to deep stage to hit a .500 pro tree myself. Many racers in my area are in the same boat with a .500 pro tree.

Max ci in factory stock for a LS3 would be 364?

How many ci is 6.2L again? Could've sworn it was closer to 376.:D I was thinkin' the same exact thing LOL. ;)





Great idea, but the .400 pro tree on a stock cube engine will be a challenge. If you have a trans brake you will be able to hit the tree. Most people with a stock or lightly mod LS more then likely will not have a trans brake. I need to deep stage to hit a .500 pro tree myself. Many racers in my area are in the same boat with a .500 pro tree.Good points. :nod:

The Pro Tree wasn't that big of a deal. I just had that in there where I had started with the NMRA's Factory Stock class. Yeah, I goofed on the cubic inch rule, but overall I think this would add to what is a great series if we could get some interest. The average person on here can't afford to build a car to compete in anything except Rumble and this is a heads up class. Help brainstorm and maybe we can come up with something good!!!

my vote still goes to a heads up stick shift class

It is early for this but okay. I am all for a slow motor class too.

Not getting in on rules talk though as I am not technical enough.

I tend to want to look at things in terms of target ET. What are you thinking is the target ET of this the slow motor class? Under or over 10's?

I don't think you should ever look at a target ET because someone is always going to be faster. I just think it would be nice for an entry level heads up lsx class both naturally aspirated and power adder. You would open the door for many more competitors and people that would build a heads up car to compete at this entry level which wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

my vote still goes to a heads up stick shift class

Some type of stick class would be awsome

It is early for this but okay. I am all for a slow motor class too.

Not getting in on rules talk though as I am not technical enough.

I tend to want to look at things in terms of target ET. What are you thinking is the target ET of this the slow motor class? Under or over 10's?

Ditto (or +1 as the young'uns would say)

I like the idea of a pump gas, all motor class with a target ET of mid 10's to start. Let it get quicker over the next two years and dip into the high 9's at some point in the future.

I don't think you should ever look at a target ET because someone is always going to be faster. I just think it would be nice for an entry level heads up lsx class both naturally aspirated and power adder. You would open the door for many more competitors and people that would build a heads up car to compete at this entry level which wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

If you think about it, if you don't have a target ET, then how do you know where to set the limit on weight or turbo or anything else? You are looking at a target ET whether you think of it that way or not. All rules are designed to limit performance to keep it "fair", "affordable", "outlandish" or within an target ET :)

Pretty simple, Real Street target for this year was high 8's to low 9's. Well Adam came out this race and was legan and busted 8.5's every pass. That is a new combo on a new car. When they get the bugs out of it, that car will go 8.30's pretty easily. That's what I'm saying you can have a target ET, but someone is always going to be faster than what the target ET is. I look at the weights as a way to limit factors between the setups in the given classes.

I also like the idea of 93 pump gas, but that would be VERY hard to do IMO. You will have to have a pump available at the track with 93 in it so you know that each participant is running the same fuel unless you want to have someone to tech a sample of fuel from each participants fuel tank between rounds as the car is weighed?

I am with you Brian and so is Ryan.
That ryhmes.
I am a poet and did not know it.

LOL

I am pretty sure we all thought the target for Real street was that mid 8 area though we hoped we would not get that that fast. NMCA (as well as anyone else that lays down a set of rules) is very careful about setting rules for max combinations..I am sure they were not surprised by what he ran just like if you/we propose a new class, we should not be surprised when that bottom is found.

ditto (or +1 as the young'uns would say)

i like the idea of a pump gas, all motor class with a target et of mid 10's to start. Let it get quicker over the next two years and dip into the high 9's at some point in the future.

+1

:-)

Redgar you have some pull, what will it take to get these classes added. I don't even own a 6 speed car, but for gosh sakes a platform that is made with the transmission can't even race in it??? That makes no sense? Do you think if we all collaborated with a good set of rules that the NMCA and GMPP would go for added an entry level all motor and power adder class?

Actually I don't have any pull at all sorry. i have spoken with the organization leaders but not really a part of the decision making. I am just a racer that wants to see this stuff get off the ground.

I believe however the first thing it would take is a sponsor backing the class financially. These classes have a pretty nice payout with very little participation so the purse is not coming from entry fees.

Pretty simple, Real Street target for this year was high 8's to low 9's. Well Adam came out this race and was legan and busted 8.5's every pass. That is a new combo on a new car. When they get the bugs out of it, that car will go 8.30's pretty easily. That's what I'm saying you can have a target ET, but someone is always going to be faster than what the target ET is. I look at the weights as a way to limit factors between the setups in the given classes.

I agree, especially since he was running with a delay.

I agree, especially since he was running with a delay.

4D all the Nitrous racers have to run a delay to some extent.
At least with a limited tire and/or no wheelie bars.
Berry did the same thing at St. Louis.
I do the same thing.

The forced induction cars do the same thing naturally.
Your car for example ramps the power in too.
Your boost in relative to your crank speed, your boost is progressive.

Hey, I am all for keeping the field level.
If the N2O cars dominate this season, maybe some of the N2O combos should be looked at?
Maybe they will need to take away a little from the .082 on a plate?
(Which in theory should make the most HP)

But for now, the field is with in a few 10th's, no one has gone quicker than 8.50 (Yet) and there are not a lot of cars.

So far, so good in my opinion.
Let's see how the season pans out:nod:

the field is with in a few 10th's, no one has gone quicker than 8.50 (Yet) and there are not a lot of cars.

So far, so good in my opinion.
Let's see how the season pans out:nod:

You're correct so far Steve, BUT...
With the way the rules are layed out, a proper built nitrous combo "CAN" dominate this year. I figured they could go 8.5 and down fitting the rules. So far that's what's happening.

1st example:
One of the best inline cylinder heads is the PXR C5R that Cary built. That head on a 440 cu. in. with the limited jet "COULD" dominate this class.

2nd example:
Justin Smith with his ALL PRO LS7 heads could also dominate this class.

There's good reason that the Canted Valve stuff is not allowed.

You're correct so far Steve, BUT...
With the way the rules are layed out, a proper built nitrous combo "CAN" dominate this year.
I figured they could go 8.5 and down fitting the rules. So far that's what's happening.

1st example:
One of the best inline cylinder heads is the PXR C5R that Cary built. That head on a 440 cu. in. with the limited jet "COULD" dominate this class.

2nd example:
Justin Smith with his ALL PRO LS7 heads could also dominate this class.

There's good reason that the Canted Valve stuff is not allowed.

I don't disagree with any of this.
Not sure what you think I said?
That is why I said...Next Season the N2O rules may need to be adjusted?
They can add weight, decrease jet size.
There are plenty of options.

I know why the Canted Valve stuff is not allowed.:nod:

I don't disagree with any of this.
Not sure what you think I said?


I was agreeing with you and adding a few more details as to why I think you're right... Don't tell the guys I agreed with you though...:D

I neither disagree nor agree with the fact that Steve and Rick both agree but we can all agree that discussing these agreements is quite agreeable, agreed?:huh: :lol: ;)

I neither disagree nor agree with the fact that Steve and Rick both agree but we can all agree that discussing these agreements is quite agreeable, agreed?:huh: :lol: ;)

:jest::jest::jest:

here is my take. i say support what we do have as far as a series. not everyone is gonna be able to come out and win this isn't T ball anymore. support what is being given and alllow the class to grow and evolve. with low numbers no one will sponsor the class.

No one can support the heads up classes that are available. You're looking at a $50,000 car to run Real Street, probably at least the same for All Motor, and around $75,000 for Drag Radial. The average car on LS1Tech is a Heads/Cam/Intake and then maybe a Single Power Adder added. The cars that run this series now make up about 10% of the LSX platform. If NMCA and GMPP welcome the idea of these two type entry level classes, I'm sure someone will step up to sponsor them.

Ditto (or +1 as the young'uns would say)

I like the idea of a pump gas, all motor class with a target ET of mid 10's to start. Let it get quicker over the next two years and dip into the high 9's at some point in the future.

If it's a matter of drawing more racers then this is the way to go.