Road Racing - First HPDE Checklist -- Thoughts?

My first HPDE at Road Atlanta is coming up in a few weeks.

Thanks to all of your help I've assembled a plan to have a nice, safe day on the track. Can you think of anything in particular that I'm missing?

1. Have brand new shocks going in next week (Bilstein SLP's). Not a necessity but I thought it would just make it more fun.

2. Dedicated track brake pads – Hawk DTC-30's (front) and HP + (rear) on the stock blank rotors.

3. Full flush of the brake fluid with ATE Super Blue.

4. Fresh synthetic oil change and fill with 7.0 quarts. After the event do I need to get it changed again, or is it OK to drive around with 7 quarts?

5. Cover the top of the power steering fluid container with a rag and secure it with (I presume) a thick rubber band? Is the stock fluid OK or should this be changed too?

6. Tires will be almost new – working to fix the issue I'm having with the rear fenders cutting the tires (305/35/18 Nitto 555R's) – roll fenders, new adjustable panhard bar and stiffer shocks in the rear should do the trick.

7. The battery is secured with the standard stock bolt – is there anything else I should do for that?

8. Do you guys really take EVERYTHING out of the car? Floor mats, CD's in the center console, owner's manual out of the glove compartment?

9. Anything else you can think of?

Sounds like you are ready to me. As to #8, I leave stuff in the console and glove compartment but clean everything else out. I thought I had the car totally cleaned out one time but a AA battery appeared in the floorboard that apparently had been lost under the seat.

That extra quart of oil will be fine to leave in there afterwards.

Have fun.

Take 2 quarts of oil with you, Mine burned 1 per day at Barber

Top the car off with fuel both days, I used a tank per day at Barber

Put some Water Wetter in the radiator, cheap insurance.

Bleed the clutch before you go to put some fresh fluid in there.

I would buy and extra power steering pump cap and drill a small vent hole in it, you might need it.

Take extra power steering fluid and a turkey baster to suck the old stuff out in case you burn it.

Take a spare set of front rotors and the tools to change them.

Put some Water Wetter in the radiator, cheap insurance.

Bleed the clutch before you go to put some fresh fluid in there.

I would buy and extra power steering pump cap and drill a small vent hole in it, you might need it.

Take extra power steering fluid and a turkey baster to suck the old stuff out in case you burn it.

Take a spare set of front rotors and the tools to change them.


Thanks for the info. Couple questions (forgive my ignorance) --

1. Is it OK to just add the Water Wetter to the radiator. Still safe to keep it in there for street driving after? Any downside to doing this?

2. I'll grab an extra PS cap however what's the reason to have an extra and to put a vent hole in it? I thought I would need to band a rag over the cap (even though I don't know what that accomplishes). If you could explain the rationale behind this it would help me.

New front rotors? I'm a novice with an instructor and will just be trying to learn the basics on the track, do you think I'll go through a set of rotors in one day?

Apparently the power steering will push some fluid out of the cap when hot. I have experienced this too and will start putting a rag over it as it seems to be normal. Live and learn.

Your rotors are probably fine for your first time out but the stockers are prone to warping. After a session, don't set the e-brake and try not to have the brakes engaged when stopped. You will probably be told something similiar.

I have always overfilled the oil and left it at that. I did recently spin a bearing in the motor (hence the LS3) but don't know if that was due to the track time or something else. It had been awhile since any track time though and the car had been through at least 10 HPDEs.

If you can, I would flush the fluid out of the power steering system and re-filling with a good, high-quality, synthetic ATF. ATF seems to work better in the PS system than PS fluid, and its all that I will run.. Currently have Amsoil ATF in my PS system.

Everything else seems good.. Those rear tires though may induce an understeer issue for you though.. Its ALMOST always better to run a matched front and rear setup when your going to be going around turns at speed.

Good call on the brake pads.. Your fine with the extra oil.. take a couple quarts with you.. Top off with fuel when you get down to 1/4 tank... the rest of it will go QUICKLY.

Oh.. and the most important thing.. Dont take your ego with you.. Just go out and have a good time!!!

Thanks for the info. Couple questions (forgive my ignorance) --

1. Is it OK to just add the Water Wetter to the radiator. Still safe to keep it in there for street driving after? Any downside to doing this?

2. I'll grab an extra PS cap however what's the reason to have an extra and to put a vent hole in it? I thought I would need to band a rag over the cap (even though I don't know what that accomplishes). If you could explain the rationale behind this it would help me.

New front rotors? I'm a novice with an instructor and will just be trying to learn the basics on the track, do you think I'll go through a set of rotors in one day?

hes been to exactly one HPDE so far. dont take his advice as gospel. you certainly do NOT need a spare PS cap with a hole drilled in it. ive never even heard of that before. i found a scrunchie laying on the sidewalk.....thats what i use around the PS cap and it works fine. you wont need a spare set of front rotors either. if you do, you are doing something VERY WRONG.

the water wetter is fine. thats what i used. if you havent lately, a full radiator flush and fill would be a regular maintenance thing anyway. at the least, what you can do is drain the rad only, then fill with whatever coolant/water mix you use. ive done this, and since i didnt drain the entire motor, i kept dexcool. otherwise i would have switched to green. i used a 60/40 mix of dex and distilled water, with a bottle of water wetter.

Ps cap is about 5 bux, mine blew the cap off 3 times the first day, I had to go buy 3 new ones , drilled a vent hole and it didn't from there on.


You are gonna need rotors eventually anyway, just take a set.

Flush the ps system and install synthetic fluid. I did this and it still burned the pump up the first day, I changed the fluid and made it the second day barely.

Go prepared.

I have done 2 events, about 8 scca solo's and ridden with buddies who are VERY fast instructors prolly 7-8 times.

I represent worst case scenarios, I am very aggressive.

My comments are by no means the "gospel".

Midnight- about a month ago, I went to my first HPDE and had to leave early due to certain issues with my car, but it seems like you hit those issues. My pads glazed and my fluid cooked and my brakes were shot quick. Additionally, my power steering fluid started to froth, so I would probably get some better fluid before going out.

Edit: I know everything I said was covered, but I figured you might want to hear that even a noob with 0 driving talent could glaze pads on the first time out. Don't worry about making the car more capable, worry about making the car safe and working on your driving style. Don't forget to brake early before a turn! I was braking late into each corner which was probably why my brakes faded so quick.

If you are having tire rub issues now it will be worse on track. What Panhard bar is on the car?

once again ive never heard of anyone blowing the cap off the PS. ive raced on slicks with a stock pump, and never blew the cap off. that being said, obviously a flush and fill with synth. fluid is advised; but so is a new upgraded pump. if the OP's pump doesnt whine already, it will after a track day. a turn one or PSC rebuild is a good upgrade/preventative maintenance, and a necessity if youre doing more then one or two events total.

once again ive never heard of anyone blowing the cap off the PS. ive raced on slicks with a stock pump, and never blew the cap off. that being said, obviously a flush and fill with synth. fluid is advised; but so is a new upgraded pump. if the OP's pump doesnt whine already, it will after a track day. a turn one or PSC rebuild is a good upgrade/preventative maintenance, and a necessity if youre doing more then one or two events total.

So are you saying mine didn't blow the cap off? Lol!

I could care less if you had drag race front runners on all 4 corners, outran an Indycar with no mods.



It gets old you guys projecting that you know all there is to know about trackdays. I have been around this stuff for a,good long while, the guys I am learning from are VERY fast, VERY experienced, and VERY Sharp.


If I had these specific set of issues with my car, don't you think its POSSIBLE someone else could?

Seems as though a select group of guys in this section think very narrow minded, if you step out of their set of "this is the way its done, period, end of story " you get squashed.

The way this set of guys talk you would think they drive ALMS cars in their free time. You may be fast, never ever break a single part on the car.

But this is NOT the norm, newbs are hard on parts, this type of racing is DAMN expensive. Why not send them with the parts they may need? Instead of having them have to possibly back off the car, having to call and Chase parts between run groups, or worst case scenario not being able to get the parts they need while at the event and having to pack up and go home?

I just dont get this philosophy, go prepared.

Rant off.

so just because YOU insist you absolutely need brake ducts because YOU cooked YOUR brakes, you think every single fbody also needs ducts? all the professional racers who have shown the years of experience of wheel-to-wheel without ducts and never overheating a single pad must be wrong?

once again, youre looking at this with a drag racers point of view. drag racing is nothing but spending money to go fast. road racing is 90% driver, 10% money. the whole idea of starting out nearly STOCK is to first build skill and confidence with stock, slower parts. then upgrade, and notice the difference each part plays in handling.

yeah its expensive......so why blow thousands of dollars on your very FIRST track day, when there is a chance you may not go back again? or may only get to one or two track days a year? everyone thinks nothing of going drag racing nearly stock. but when i suggest an autox or hpde, their first and only answer is 'oh no, then i have to do the whole suspension and everything.' no, they are completely WRONG. you dont know how well a stock fbody can actually do on a real track. you DONT need to blow hundreds or thousands on a single event.

i never said i know everything about track days. but yet after all the time youve spend on frrax and seen what everyone else says about a first timers checklist, why do YOU insist YOUR checklist is better then everyone elses? nobody there said to get another PS cap and drill a hole in it. no one said you flat out NEED ducts. theyve never even said to bring a spare set of rotors. having dedicated track rotors are one thing.....but the chances of warping/cracking a stock rotor in good shape during your first time out are very slim. they keep beginner classes slow for this very reason.

you claim everyone else is 'narrow minded, my way is the only way', yet you yourself flat out refused to listen to anyone else before and after your famous day at barber.

I never insisted, only offered what happened to ME.

I see more and more first timers running more and more into what happened to me. There were a few at the track that day having the same teething problems. These cars are heavy, very under equipped in the braking dept, and have good hp in stock form.

These RACE cars you refer to are lighter, have a RACE pad on them with experienced drivers, we are not.

Again, my words are not the "gospel" its just what happened to me.

The tracks we run down here may be harder on the car I dont know, Barber and Road Atlanta seem fairly fast.

If you wanna buy a car to trackday that you just get in and go, buy a BMW, an F Body aint one of them for sure.

If I had these specific set of issues with my car, don't you think its POSSIBLE someone else could?



Yes it is possible.

Just as it's possible to flying off the track at triple digit speeds and crash violently.

Why aren't you being prepared for that possibility by advocating 10 point roll cages, multi-port fire systems, full containment seats and full driver protection including HANS?




I just dont get this philosophy, go prepared.




Maybe because while a possibility, the PROBABILITY and the COST/BENEFIT of such expenses doesn't make fiscal sense?

Personally, I think you need to find a different group of friends. They are having fun spending your money.

yes it is possible.

Just as it's possible to flying off the track at triple digit speeds and crash violently.

Why aren't you being prepared for that possibility by advocating 10 point roll cages, multi-port fire systems, full containment seats and full driver protection including hans?







Maybe because while a possibility, the probability and the cost/benefit of such expenses doesn't make fiscal sense?

Personally, i think you need to find a different group of friends. They are having fun spending your money.

If you have brakes on the car, this is much less likely to happen, mine is getting a trackbar and belts this weekend lol.

A spare set of rotors, a turkey baster, extra fluid and a power steering pump cap are expensive????????????


Come on mitch lol.

To the OP ....

The sky will not fall on your first HPDE unless your car is a complete POS, you are a complete moron and your instructor is a complete hack.

Just relax, have fun and learn.

To the OP ....

The sky will not fall on your first HPDE unless your car is a complete POS, you are a complete moron and your instructor is a complete hack.

Just relax, have fun and learn.

:thumb: Although fresh fluids wouldn't hurt...

Op, please report back after the event. Have fun and ask questions.

Are you doing NASA June 18th-19th?

I'll be there racing in American Iron. I'll be pitted with the MTI racing folk, come by and introduce yourself. I always love to see another F body out there!

The only issue I see is the tire rubbing. If it's rubbing on the street, it's sure as hell gonna rub on track. Get those types of issues sorted before showing up. If your around the Marietta area, bring your car by my house and I'll help you do a pre-event check.

As far as spares go. If you bring them, your won't need them! I bring a ton of stuff!

When I did my first HPDE (Sears Point), the only thing I had done to my car is pads, brake ducts (I just attached them to the lower airdam), had wheels/tires on it already, a 35mm sway bar, and a poly/poly panhard bar which I since replaced (rod/rod adjust.) long ago because the poly deflected enough to let the 315s rub the inner fenders. I brought with me a variety of fluids, rags, tools, etc. Everything fit into one of those big plastic totes that fit in the back seat. That first time was uneventful, but my second time (at Sears) I ran into a problem because I have a :barf:auto-tragic transmission. When I did the first HPDE I left the trans in drive. When I did the second HPDE I left it in second (stupid move) and overheated the powersteering fluid which popped the cap off (the dip stick was gone) and sprayed the engine compartment with fluid. The one thing I didn't bring was duct tape. Someone who was pitted next to me let me borrow his tape. Amazingly the cap was still in the engine compartment so I was able to refill the fluid and tape (alot of tape) the cap back on and limped home. Overall, I had alot of fun. If I hadn't left the trans in second, I wouldn't have a Turn One pump now!:nod: You don't need a bunch of spare parts for a HPDE if you just use your head!

If you are having tire rub issues now it will be worse on track. What Panhard bar is on the car?

Thanks for all of the help guys -- I'm obviously completely new to this.

I WAS having tire rub issues with the stock panhard bar and crappy knock-off brand shocks (I thought they were stock Decarbons with 50K miles on them however I just learned otherwise when we pulled them this weekend). We installed an UMI on-car adjustible panhard bar, new SLP Bilsteins in the front and rear and rolled the fenders so that should've fixed the tire rub issue.

Are you doing NASA June 18th-19th?

I'll be there racing in American Iron. I'll be pitted with the MTI racing folk, come by and introduce yourself. I always love to see another F body out there!

The only issue I see is the tire rubbing. If it's rubbing on the street, it's sure as hell gonna rub on track. Get those types of issues sorted before showing up. If your around the Marietta area, bring your car by my house and I'll help you do a pre-event check.

As far as spares go. If you bring them, your won't need them! I bring a ton of stuff!

Thanks Will. I'm heading out there on June 6th with Chin Motorsports. Have a few buddies joining me and all 4 of us are 100% beginners. I've already agreed to leave my ego at home and just go out there to learn and have fun. It should be a really good time.

The tire rubbing issue is finally resolved (adjustible panhard, better shocks in the rear and rolled fenders).

I may be in the Marietta area shortly (heading over to my buddies shop to get the new rear tires mounted, balanced and to get a fresh alignment).

Is it a heim end or roto joint on both ends Panhard rod?

What size tire and what wheel?

Shocks have no control over tire rub issues.

1st of all, I'm no expert (only 3 HPDEs) but here's my experience. My 1st was MSR cresson in Oct 2010. Car was an '02 M6 Z28 with bone stock suspension, brake rotors & calipers, 16x8 wheels (the optional polished ones ;)) and 245/50R16 tires. The car had bolt-on engine mods (headers, exhaust, lid, etc and a 160deg thermostat). Only "mods" I made specifically for the HPDE were:

complete brake fluid flush with ATE Super Blue
Hawk HPS brake pads front & rear
"street performance" front end alignment
The results of my weekend??

HAD A BLAST!
Learned power steering fluid will come out of the tank even though the cap is there
Learned my 50 series tires REALLY like to roll over when I enter a corner too fast no matter how much air I put in them
Listening to the instructors even when what they say seems counter-intuitive I learned how to drive my car better which actually winds up being easier on it
Did I mention I had a blast!
Things I changed because of the results of my first weekend:

Entered the turns slower ;)
Flushed the power steering system with Redline fluid
Installed a new power steering cap

Results??

Power steering fluid still likes to come out... just less. May be the fresher fluid, may be better technique on my part :eyes:
50 series tires are just too tall. Could probably learn to treat them right, but even though I'm patient, this was a choice on my part not to be THAT patient!

Have fun with it, be smooth, and keep an open mind... some things aren't as obvious as one might think... at least that is my experience.

Mark.

Power steering fluid still likes to come out... just less. May be the fresher fluid, may be better technique on my part

it will always come out. use a scrunchie or rubberband a rag around the cap and itll be fine.

it will always come out. use a scrunchie or rubberband a rag around the cap and itll be fine.

Yeppers... picked up on that in this thread. Plan to give it a shot my next time out :thumb: I'll also add it to my "things I changed because of..." list :nod:

Mark

once again ive never heard of anyone blowing the cap off the PS. ive raced on slicks with a stock pump, and never blew the cap off. that being said, obviously a flush and fill with synth. fluid is advised; but so is a new upgraded pump. if the OP's pump doesnt whine already, it will after a track day. a turn one or PSC rebuild is a good upgrade/preventative maintenance, and a necessity if youre doing more then one or two events total.

I blew my powersteering cap off at the end of my second day at the Glen. The seals on the pump actually let go and fluid exploded everywhere. There was enough white smoke that people behind me thought my engine let go. I think I'm actually lucky there wasn't a fire even though I have the vetteworks bracket with a fire extinguisher just in case.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the powersteering cap just disappeared too. I've never heard of drilling a hole in it though. May not be a bad idea...

II blew my powersteering cap off at the end of my second day at the Glen. The seals on the pump actually let go and fluid exploded everywhere. There was enough white smoke that people behind me thought my engine let go. I think I'm actually lucky there wasn't a fire even though I have the vetteworks bracket with a fire extinguisher just in case.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the powersteering cap just disappeared too. I've never heard of drilling a hole in it though. May not be a bad idea...


Shhhhh, us newbs don't know squat Lmao.

I know I wasn't the only guy this stuff happens to.

The small hole in the cap stops it from breaking and blowing off the cap. Makes a Damn mess don't it?

I blew my power steering cap off at the end of my second day at the Glen. The seals on the pump actually let go and fluid exploded everywhere.

having a pump failure is one thing. that would of course cause things to blow apart. but it simply flying off all by itself with no other reason...........????

having a pump failure is one thing. that would of course cause things to blow apart. but it simply flying off all by itself with no other reason...........????

Come on, really?

My pump was whining so loud it sounded like a cat in heat.

The reservoir got so hot it melted the wiring harness that runs behind it.

You reckon there was enough pressure in that reservoir to break the locking ears off the cap and send it flying?

Mine did, 3 times.

1st of all, I'm no expert (only 3 HPDEs) but here's my experience. My 1st was MSR cresson in Oct 2010. Car was an '02 M6 Z28 with bone stock suspension, brake rotors & calipers, 16x8 wheels (the optional polished ones ;)) and 245/50R16 tires. The car had bolt-on engine mods (headers, exhaust, lid, etc and a 160deg thermostat). Only "mods" I made specifically for the HPDE were:

complete brake fluid flush with ATE Super Blue
Hawk HPS brake pads front & rear
"street performance" front end alignment
The results of my weekend??

HAD A BLAST!
Learned power steering fluid will come out of the tank even though the cap is there
Learned my 50 series tires REALLY like to roll over when I enter a corner too fast no matter how much air I put in them
Listening to the instructors even when what they say seems counter-intuitive I learned how to drive my car better which actually winds up being easier on it
Did I mention I had a blast!
Things I changed because of the results of my first weekend:

Entered the turns slower ;)
Flushed the power steering system with Redline fluid
Installed a new power steering cap

Results??

Power steering fluid still likes to come out... just less. May be the fresher fluid, may be better technique on my part :eyes:
50 series tires are just too tall. Could probably learn to treat them right, but even though I'm patient, this was a choice on my part not to be THAT patient!

Have fun with it, be smooth, and keep an open mind... some things aren't as obvious as one might think... at least that is my experience.

Mark.

Great insight! I appreciate your help!

OK, one more noob power steering pump cap question.

It sounds like many of us have experienced SOME fluid coming out of the cap. One remedy would be to put a rag or scrunchie around the cap to presumably sop up the fluid. Another idea would be to get an extra cap and put a small hole in the top of the cap and then cover it with a rag.

Any reason NOT to put a small hole in the cap? The caps are cheap and I don't mind spending a little extra for that safety of knowing that the pressure isn't going to build up and blow the cap off. Even if it's unlikely that would happen, the only downside to doing this I can think of would be the cost of the cap (which is minimal). Any other reason NOT to drill a small hole in the cap?

As far as the size of the hole -- are we talking pin hole or are we talking about a diameter similar to the size of a standard metal (uncoated) paper clip?

No one will argue you will PS lose fluid.
No one will argue you will generate a shit-load of heat in the pump due to valving and subsequent flowrate.
No one will argue that the PS steering system is a weak point.

But experienced one will argue that buzzing the motor to any where near the rev limiter is a gross and unnecessary abuse of the gear which will create all kinds of problems, which include killing the PS system.

If you are Joe Stud and will certainly set FTD, then go ahead and win practice ... and pay a steep price.

Be smart and you will be just fine.

Fold a towel, cover the cap and hold it place with a scrunchie. Or don't worry about it, don't kill your car trying to prove something that is unprovable, have fun ...


Edit:

As a data point ...

I race in CMC and we are very limited on what modifications we can do. Basically, nothing to a motor or engine management.

I have a Turn One pump (before I discovered PSC), small cooler and over-sized aluminum PS reservoir. And on an LT1, it's even remotely mounted. And because I can't alter the PCM, I'm limited to stock revs, but shift at 5300 because that where the sweet spot is for TQ v HP with my gearing.

All that to say ... I still get fluid out of the reservoir. It's not going to stop.

If you are ejecting caps or pushing seals, there are contributing factors beyond entering in your first DE to cause it. If you buzz the motor over 6K lap after lap after lap after lap, then you have to expect bad things to happen.

But my experience tells me that TQ is what drives you out of corners, not RPM. Short shift and you'll be amazed at how much more speed you can carry down a long straight.

Mitch is right, I was shifting at 5300-5500 by the tach, I didn't know at that time the factory tach was THAT Slow, but apparently it is. I have since learned real rpm was closer to 6000.

I have since put a PSC pump and cooler on the car and will lower my shift to 5k when I go back to Barber next weekend.

Looks like you got it all covered in your first post man. I have not had PS problems yet. Although I could have sworn 01-02 SS cars had powersteering coolers from the factory. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

good information for first timer..

Looks like you got it all covered in your first post man. I have not had PS problems yet. Although I could have sworn 01-02 SS cars had powersteering coolers from the factory. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, they do have a cooler but like most things aftermarket is better.

Even mine with a cooler and PSC pump spits some from under the cap. My buddy with the same type car that turns his engine harder than mine only has a Turn One pump without a cooler, his reservoir stays dry.

BTW, running the fluid hot like that shortens the life of your rack and pinion. Mine went tits up recently, blew the seals out of both sides.

Looks like you got it all covered in your first post man. I have not had PS problems yet. Although I could have sworn 01-02 SS cars had powersteering coolers from the factory. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, its "cooled" with 210* engine coolant. :eek2:

Mount a decent radiator for a tranmission and you should be good to go.


Even mine with a cooler and PSC pump spits some from under the cap. My buddy with the same type car that turns his engine harder than mine only has a Turn One pump without a cooler, his reservoir stays dry.

BTW, running the fluid hot like that shortens the life of your rack and pinion. Mine went tits up recently, blew the seals out of both sides.


My race car has a Turn One pump AND a 4 pass cooler. I shift at 5300. Still get fluid weep out of the cap.

A spare set of rotors, a turkey baster, extra fluid and a power steering pump cap are expensive????????????


Come on mitch lol.

x2. I'm wondering why these guys are jumping all over you when you just made some inexpensive "CYA" suggestions and told about your experiences.

To the OP: Obviously, everyone's experiences are going to be different. Take it all in, figure out where the rough consensus is, and do what you can to prepare. Most of all, make sure to enjoy yourself.

x2. I'm wondering why these guys are jumping all over you when you just made some inexpensive "CYA" suggestions and told about your experiences.


Maybe you didn't read this post ...


Take 2 quarts of oil with you, Mine burned 1 per day at Barber

Top the car off with fuel both days, I used a tank per day at Barber

Put some Water Wetter in the radiator, cheap insurance.

Bleed the clutch before you go to put some fresh fluid in there.

I would buy and extra power steering pump cap and drill a small vent hole in it, you might need it.

Take extra power steering fluid and a turkey baster to suck the old stuff out in case you burn it.

Take a spare set of front rotors and the tools to change them.


For a FIRST HPDE?

Bleed the clutch?, Spare cap? Spare rotors? really?

Either your instructor's doing you a great disservice or you have can't control your ego and are trying to win practice.

Fuel, engine oil and a willingness to learn ought to be ALL a newb should bring to the track ... again, a newb.

A rookie should NEVER tax the car to the point of failure. Never ...

Maybe you didn't read this post ...





For a FIRST HPDE?

Bleed the clutch?, Spare cap? Spare rotors? really?

Either your instructor's doing you a great disservice or you have can't control your ego and are trying to win practice.

Fuel, engine oil and a willingness to learn ought to be ALL a newb should bring to the track ... again, a newb.

A rookie should NEVER tax the car to the point of failure. Never ...

Mitch(racing GOD) is on the scene, careful if you don't see things his way he will crush you lol.

Well stop being such a hack and I won't have to keep correcting your flaws.

Well stop being such a hack and I won't have to keep correcting your flaws.

I rest my case.

I went to my first two HPDE's with nothing but my brake fluid flushed with ATE Super Blue, an extra quart of oil in the pan, new O'reilly Auto Parts cheapie brake pads, and an inspection! How did that work for me? My power steering fluid leaked, my tires were torn up and got slippery, my brakes faded, stops got longer, and I burned a full quart of oil, but I learned how to manage all that. I was also told by my instructors that I learned to drive the car well enough and responded to the way it changed well enough that I was advanced to the next run group and signed off to solo after only 2 events! That was on my completely stock Z28 with its 16" snowflake wheels and stock 245/50R16 tires.

Point is the first timer is the biggest limitation, not anything on the car. If something breaks, more than likely its an issue with the driver. If a competent instructor can truely say "I don't know what you can do any better" then it's probably an issue with the car :)

I've been to 4 HPDE's now. Still haven't broken anything on my car (and I'm not slow by any means). My limited experience has gotten me just about to the point where I'm realizing when things aren't working well, I can point to something I've done incorrectly. Heck... half the fun is screwing something up, noticing it, then fixing it the next time on the track!

Drive what you've got, learn from it, and have fun!!

Mark.

I went to my first two HPDE's with nothing but my brake fluid flushed with ATE Super Blue, an extra quart of oil in the pan, new O'reilly Auto Parts cheapie brake pads, and an inspection! How did that work for me? My power steering fluid leaked, my tires were torn up and got slippery, my brakes faded, stops got longer, and I burned a full quart of oil, but I learned how to manage all that. I was also told by my instructors that I learned to drive the car well enough and responded to the way it changed well enough that I was advanced to the next run group and signed off to solo after only 2 events! That was on my completely stock Z28 with its 16" snowflake wheels and stock 245/50R16 tires.

Point is the first timer is the biggest limitation, not anything on the car. If something breaks, more than likely its an issue with the driver. If a competent instructor can truely say "I don't know what you can do any better" then it's probably an issue with the car :)

I've been to 4 HPDE's now. Still haven't broken anything on my car (and I'm not slow by any means). My limited experience has gotten me just about to the point where I'm realizing when things aren't working well, I can point to something I've done incorrectly. Heck... half the fun is screwing something up, noticing it, then fixing it the next time on the track!

Drive what you've got, learn from it, and have fun!!

Mark.

And I rest my case.

Mark gets it ...

Trying to win practice is one thing ... learning how to actually drive the equipment you have is an altogether different thing.

In an actual race, you never get the line ... your brakes are never perfect ... your car is never spot on ... but learning how to manage the car AND manage the session is the difference between a driver and a hack.

HUGE difference.

Maybe you didn't read this post ...

For a FIRST HPDE?

Bleed the clutch?, Spare cap? Spare rotors? really?

Either your instructor's doing you a great disservice or you have can't control your ego and are trying to win practice.

Fuel, engine oil and a willingness to learn ought to be ALL a newb should bring to the track ... again, a newb.

A rookie should NEVER tax the car to the point of failure. Never ...

Ever hear of Murphy's Law?

We're talking HPDE. Even under relaxed conditions, some items in your car will be pushed past everyday stress levels. Brakes, tires and steering are right at the top of the list.

Extra rotors seem like cheap insurance to me. From what I've read so far in this thread, bringing an extra PS cap also sounds like a pretty damn solid idea. In fact, the list of suggested "bring alongs" FFB gave consists almost entirely of crap most gearheads would have laying around anyway. Rotors. Brake fluid. Etc.

What's the harm in bring the stuff along just in case?

You are entirely correct equating lack of ego control with "trying to win practice." I couldn't agree more and I don't think FFB would disagree. However, it is entirely possible for a newb to munge their brakes through a simple mistake as well (pick a circumstance, I'm sure everyone can cite examples). Besides that, if a guy wants to prep by bleeding or fully inspecting his clutch and brakes, who cares? It may be a waste of time/effort to you, but perhaps it helps put him in the right frame of mind for the coming day. Maybe he splashed through an oil puddle after someone's POS econobox barfed a piston in front of him (happened to me today).

FFBs experience is different from yours and mine. We'd all do different things for a first track day or training day.

It takes me roughly 30 seconds of extra effort to bring along rotors I've got laying around anyway. So yes, I'd bring 'em. I'd also bring brake fluid and ATF. And drinking water and snacks.

Bleed the clutch? I'd rather hug a cactus. But if someone else wants to, so be it. I treat suggestions here like a salad bar. I take the items I like, leave behind the ones I don't. Like you said, the truly important item is learning how to manage your car, and a building skill as a driver. From season to season (or even race to race), you car may change, but YOU will always be involved.

I've done a few HPDEs (6 years and counting...) and prepared a Basic Guide for HPDE Beginners for my local Corvette and Mustang Club.

Basic Guide for HPDE - Preparing for a new adventure on the road courses!

I prepared the following "HPDE Basics" information that I hope you all find helpful. I know we have many experienced members on the forum that may want to chime in. Mike

You will need to purchase a current SA20xx certified racing helmet (NO motorcycle helmets) along with wearing jeans, sneakers and a long sleeve shirt.

Initial recommendations to prepare your Corvette for HPDE include: (1) Safety, (2) Braking and Cooling, (3) Suspension – you usually don't need more horsepower or need to spend large amounts of money as you get into this HPDE hobby. Seat time.. Seat time.. Seat time..

1. SAFETY: Ideally, you will eventually want to invest in a set of race seats, roll bar and set of 6-point harnesses. However, if you are just starting out, OEM seat and belts are good enough. If you want to upgrade for a reasonable price - a harness bar with a set of 4-point Schroth Profi II ASM FE harness are a great option because they can be converted to a 5 or 6 point harness when you're ready to purchase race seats.

2. BRAKING and COOLING: Bleed the brake system with fresh DOT 4 Super Blue (or Gold) ATE Fluid or Motul 600RB and use fresh synthetic motor oil. Front brake cooling ducts are highly recommended, and a set of stainless steel brake lines - these really work!. If you're in HPDE 1 you can often stick with your OEM brake pads, but I recommend upgrading as you gain experience and speed move up to Hawk DTC-70/60s or Carbotech XP12/10s.

3. SUSPENSION: HPDE 1 and 2, really no need to touch your suspension till you get into HPDE 3+. It's preferred to learn valuable car control skills preferably on a good set of street tires. A wheel alignment and corner balancing makes a significant difference.

Here's a good TOP 25 "Basics" for HPDE/road racing - Enjoy!

1. In Slow / Out fast. If you start turning and the car keeps going straight (push/understeer) you are likely entering the turn too fast. In my experience this slows down lap times more than anything.

2. Look ahead. The proper line is key for fast times. Looking ahead allows you to keep the car on the proper line. This may mean looking at the next turn before you are out of the current turn. Often requires looking out the side windows rather than just through the windshield.

3. Use the whole track. This goes with the proper line. In general, you want to make the turn as gradual as possible to allow for greater speed. However, stick to the clean line. Gravel and marbles will often accumulate the most off line and you will lose traction if you stray into it.

4. Whenever possible, ride with an experienced driver before your runs. Even better, co-drive your car with a good driver. This allows for great feedback on what your car can do for a particular course, and where you can pick up more time.

5. Try to get your hard braking done in a straight line and take a line that allows you to get the car straighter and on the gas earlier in the turn, particularly before a straight.

6. Unwind the wheel as you accelerate out of the turn. Getting on the throttle as you come out of the turn will generally cause the back end to step out (over-steer). Unwinding the wheel allows you to control the over-steer and generate more speed. Again, use the whole track.

7. Basic mechanicals. Full fuel, fresh brake fluid, at least 50% left on your brake pads, secure battery tie down, etc. Make sure the engine oil is topped off (continuous running track courses, add 1/2 Qt. over full).

8. Tire pressures. Most newbie's start out with high pressures, mainly to save the sidewalls of the tires. After each run (each run because you'll be picking up speed on each run) check to see that you're not running onto the sidewalls. Wear on the corner of the tread is OK, but not past that.

9. Interior. Get everything out of the interior that can move. Floor mats, radar detectors, CDs, etc. You'll be braking and turning harder than you ever have before, and you won't believe the stuff that'll come out from under the seats.

10. Personal. WATER! And eat light. Especially if you get some runs with an instructor, it's easy to get a queasy stomach. Don't forget sunscreen.

11. Leave your EGO at the door, I can't stress that enough. I see way too many guys wrecking their cars just because they THOUGHT they are great drivers.

12. DO NOT FOLLOW THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU BLINDLY!!! You will be surprised how many guys DO NOT take the correct line. A bad line will get you one of two, a bad lap time or an off track experience.

13. BE SMOOTH!!!! Do not force the car or yourself, be smooth, speed will come with that.

14. If you come into a corner too hot you can ride it out and go off track a bit. Here's the kicker, if you accidentally get two wheels off track RIDE IT OUT! Don't panic and try to yank the car back onto the pavement. The car will spin and when you regain traction you'll probably be pointed at a wall!

15. Someone who is in your mirrors did NOT start there, so they are faster than you are, let them by. Do not get frustrated by people that won't let you by. Pull into the pit, tell the course marshal you want some space, and they will let you back out into clean air.

16. Pay attention at the driver's meetings. Make sure you know and FULLY understand the passing zones, and passing method used by the people running the event. You may know what the flags mean, but make sure they are using them the way you think they should be using them.

17. Do NOT use the brakes on the cool down lap. Use it to cool down the car, but also drive the "perfect" race line in super slow motion. If you can't put the car where you want it at 40mph, how are you going to do it at 90mph? When you return to the pits, do NOT apply the handbrake. Chock the wheels and after about 60 seconds roll the car forward 8". This will allow the part of the rotor that is inside the caliper to breath too. Pop the hood. While the hood is up, look for fluid leaks and double check your brake fluid level.

18. Know where the flag stands are, check them every time you go by them.

19. When there are unsafe conditions on the track, GET OFF THE TRACK. Pull into the pit, don't be afraid to end your day early. It's far better than having it ended early for you.

20. It makes sense to change to open lug nuts. The closed ended ones can get junk in the end preventing proper torque specs. This is referred to as "acorning." It would be a bad day losing a wheel at any kind of speed.

21. Screeching tires on a corner are fine, but "howling" tires are bad. After a few corners, you'll know what I mean. When the tire noise deepens and starts to "howl," you are right on the edge with street tires, so be very careful.

22. DO NOT LIFT if you're in a corner. The load of the car transfers forward with the deceleration, the rear tires get light, and the back end can snap around on you. If the rear then grabs, you'll be heading directly into the inside of the corner, possibly at a wall or other fixed obstacle.

23. Carry two extra bottles of brake fluid, a bleeder bottle, set of spare pads and rotors, and an extra quart or two of oil. The cornering can slosh fuel back and forth enough to create false readings on the gauge.

24. Your OEM rotors should be good for 3-5 events, again depending on the heat. Replacement rotors are cheap at Advanced Auto or Rock Auto. I carry a spare set with me so I can change out bad ones and keep on driving the rest of the weekend. Avoid drilled rotors - not good for HPDE because they will crack fast and ruin a good weekend.

25. Don't use your transmission/engine to slow your car as you enter a turn. USE your brakes! Brake pads are much less expensive to replace than repairing your transmission. It may sound "cool" to hear your car whine down as you enter a turn, but you're placing a lot of stress on your transmission and its "uncontrolled deceleration" that can spin your tail end around. Brake steady/hard and shift.

Here's some good reading for HPDE:

Secrets of Solo Racing - Henry Watts
Speed Secrets - Ross Bentley
Driving in Competition - Alan Johnson
Drive to Win - Carol Smith; and A Twist of the Wrist – Lawson & Rainey

And I rest my case.

Mark gets it ...

Trying to win practice is one thing ... learning how to actually drive the equipment you have is an altogether different thing.

In an actual race, you never get the line ... your brakes are never perfect ... your car is never spot on ... but learning how to manage the car AND manage the session is the difference between a driver and a hack.

HUGE difference.

Yeah honestly I think the argument you and FASTFATBOY are having is stupid. There isn't anything wrong with extra preparation if someone wants to take it that level, not always saying you need to do it but it certainly doesn't make you a hack...

One thing I will say is that there isn't anyway to get around the powersteering issues these cars have (with the stock pump). My car was pissed off when I did track days at Dunnville in Ontario, it was a pissed off when I autocrossed and it blew up like I already mentioned at Watkins Glen during a 2 day HPDE session with me trying to baby it and not taking the car out I could tell it was on the verge of having something happen.

It now has a Turn-One pump and an external cooler and it still gets pissed off at Watkins Glen...

Some common beginner's mistakes:

1. Turning in too early. This happens because you think you're going to get through the corner faster because if you turn in early you're not turning in as tight, but by doing this you wind up sliding through the apex to turn out. It needs to be "In slow in - Out fast."

2. Entering the slower corners too fast, then scrubbing off speed as you squeal all the way through the turn. This may sound like #1 above, but it's not. Most new drivers are too fast into the slow corners, but too slow through the faster ones.

3. Braking while turning in. It's best to brake too early then be back on a constant throttle well before turn in. Then on later laps you can slowly move up the braking zone closer to the turn in. This is especially good for the faster corners.

4. Not looking ahead to your next reference point (apex, turn out, etc). Know where you're going next to prevent having to make any mid-turn corrections. Just before the turn in pick up the apex. When you get almost to the apex look for the turn out point. Hand-eye coordination is what's going on here. Look where you want to go.

5. Not using the whole track. Most of the first-timers quickly forget about hitting the turn in, apex and turn out cones. You shouldn't have more than a couple of feet between your wheels and the berms on the higher speed corners. Many inexperienced drivers will be eight feet away. On the slower ones actually being slightly on the edge of the berm may be good. When you pass by one of these points take a quick glance over to see how close you are. Have an instructor critique this.

6. Coasting. Always be either on the brake or the accelerator. Coasting means indecision because you haven't planned ahead well enough.

7. Trying to be fast right away. Start off by worrying about technique & smoothness. Speed will come later. If you start off wanting to be the fastest car out there then after a couple of times at the track you'll get frustrated by a lack of progress in your times. Inexperienced, fast drivers are usually very unbalanced, choppy and very rushed in the driver's seat.

8. Frustration because even though you are doing everything you've been told you feel like you're getting slower. If you practice doing it right then after a few open-track or autocross events you'll come to a point where you think you've gotten slower, but you're actually faster. That's because if you're really smooth and anticipate your next moves then this lack of hurriedness on your part will seem like you're slow, but you're actually just better!

Milestones for novice/beginner, intermediate, and advanced students as typically as follows:

Level 1 Novice Group Students


Rules/procedures/format of school.
Aware of vehicle condition.
Proper seat & driving position - Mirror position - seat belts or harnesses snug - correct head and hand position.
Traffic Safety Management: Observes pit line starter and watches traffic when leaving pit – checks mirrors often-signals and assists passing cars - observes corner workers & flag status - observes pit entrance procedures.
Up-shifts and Downshifts properly and selects appropriate gear.
Smooth clutch release and observes engine redline.
Knows track layout and the proper driving line.
Does not early apex.
Vision - looks into turn, past apex and toward exit.
Smooth turn in and smooth turn out – knows largest possible radius.
Throttle on before turn exit.
Correct hand technique, will introduce shuffle steering.
No abrupt sawing steering wheel inputs.
No driver body lean-keeps head up and vision far down stream.
Clips apex’s consistently.
Understands understeer & oversteer.
Knows the location of run-off areas.
Knows how to drive off track.
Understands threshold and/or ABS braking.
Performs hard barking without lockup.
Corner entry speed correct.
Follows directions and responds to instruction.
Maintains appropriate car spacing (2 seconds).


Level 2 Immediate Group Students


Scans and attends entire visual field-Has high situational awareness.
Brakes hard and late on straights.
Knows and achieves brake traction limits.
Has consistent brake point selection.
Left foot braking as appropriate.
Consistence cornering force.
Can correct a skid – knows spin limiting techniques.
Knows acceleration limits exiting turns and uses correct RPM range.
Performs turn analysis.
Can drive in both wet and dry.
Uses very small steering corrections.
Understands the significance and can evaluate corner exit speed.
Can execute a early apex (capable of driving off line and stay on track).
Can execute a late apex (capable of driving off line and stay on track).
Knows "S" turn line and performs driving line analysis.
Is aware of errors and can self evaluate/self teach.
Steers accurately and consistently.
Can recognize and is sensitive to vehicle feedback.
Can evaluate vehicle feedback.
Reads traffic-Looks through cars ahead.
Exhibits calmness and self control.
Knows driving terms.
Has an action plan for each corner.
Changes vehicle position by altering trajectory.


Level 3 Advanced Group Students


Demonstrates spatial memory of course.
Performs error analysis.
Reacts well to the unexpected.
Anticipates changing conditions.
Reads road surface.
Performs heal & toe down-shifts.
Hard braking into turn/trail brakes.
Can Throttle steer vehicle.
Knows principles of vehicle dynamics.
Knows weight transfer and is aware of brake bias.
Is sensitive to vehicle dynamics.
Understands tire dynamics.
Understands slip angles - effect on grip - and cornering speed.
Knows rain techniques.


Recommend purchasing a 2.5 lb Halon fire extinguisher that come with the 2-Strap Mounting bracket. The mounting bracket will fit Brey-Krause brand extinguisher mounts and provides holes in the bracket that permit easy mounting with bolts or screws in other mounts.

I still FIRMLY believe that if an instructor allows a newb ... first timer ... to trash a set of brakes, then there is very little actual instructing taking place. The instructor is there for the free track time and not passing along knowledge. The instructor has failed miserably and the sanctioning body has failed as well by providing a less than involved instructor.

And while you and I have a stack of spare rotors laying around the shop, posting in a thread that an extra set of rotors "should" be on the list of items to bring sends a message that if you DON'T have them laying around, then you should buy a set.

Now, once you get a couple QUALITY weekends under your belt, then spares like rotors and pads will start accumulating.

Second of all, a newb needs to have 100% focus on the track, line and situational awareness ... not spending off track sessions working on the car.

FFB had a hack instructor from the outset and now has now taken on that mentality. That is HIS normalcy. And that is, in fact, not the norm.

It now has a Turn-One pump and an external cooler and it still gets pissed off at Watkins Glen...

I've been using Redline Synthetic Power Steering Fluid (http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-30404-Power-Steering/dp/B000CPI5XC) along with a cooler with great results - no boiling fluid or leaking cap.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21IhlIgK9vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

For what it's worth my first track day did not ruin anything. My pads were Hawk HPS and worked fine. I can attest that going smoother feels slower lol. Good times.

I still FIRMLY believe that if an instructor allows a newb ... first timer ... to trash a set of brakes, then there is very little actual instructing taking place. The instructor is there for the free track time and not passing along knowledge. The instructor has failed miserably and the sanctioning body has failed as well by providing a less than involved instructor.

And while you and I have a stack of spare rotors laying around the shop, posting in a thread that an extra set of rotors "should" be on the list of items to bring sends a message that if you DON'T have them laying around, then you should buy a set.

Now, once you get a couple QUALITY weekends under your belt, then spares like rotors and pads will start accumulating.

Second of all, a newb needs to have 100% focus on the track, line and situational awareness ... not spending off track sessions working on the car.

FFB had a hack instructor from the outset and now has now taken on that mentality. That is HIS normalcy. And that is, in fact, not the norm.

Just had a student this weekend (first timer) who really could have used an extra set of rotors. This guy was a natural behind the wheel. Learned the proper line in the first session, and drove smooth and gradually faster all throughout the day. I found myself along for the ride with nothing much to say. I showed him the safer slower line thru 2 specific corners, and after lunch he discussed with me what a faster different way would be thru them, and I explained the reason I chose to show him the other one was due to his lack of experience. I allowed him to change the line and he progressively got quicker and quicker, all while remaining smooth, and relatively mistake free. Eventually he was braking deeper and deeper, taxing his brakes. The rotors started shaking progressively worse until he had to stop. No rotors anywhere local in stock. Shit outta luck. As cheap as rotors are , it's not a foolish idea to have a set. IMHO.

It's always good to bring an extra set of rotors to a 2 day road course event (HPDE) - this goes for Beginners and Advanced drivers. Some cars don't have front brake cooling ducts, some brake pads are more aggressive on rotors than others, some drivers keep their AH/TC "ON" while on the road course, which allows the computer to brake more often during a given session, and some rotors are 'cheaper' than others and don't last as long before cracking. While its often true that beginners brake longer and more often than more experienced drivers, there are other factors that could lead to a cracked rotor. Why not bring an extra set of blank front rotors? It's cheap insurance so you don't waste your weekend $$$.