z_speedfreak
05-09-2011, 04:45 PM
while watching dogfights the other day I realized I know barely anything on them.
begin :)
begin :)
Advanced Engineering Tech - school me on radial engines
View Full Version : school me on radial engines
eseibel67
05-09-2011, 07:05 PM
This moving stick picture will explain it better than words.
The coolest part is that the crankshaft is stationary, attached to the plane.
The funniest part is that it doesn't have an oil pan, after the oil is done it's lubricating, it just sprays into the atmosphere.
http://www.animatedengines.com/gnome.shtml
The coolest part is that the crankshaft is stationary, attached to the plane.
The funniest part is that it doesn't have an oil pan, after the oil is done it's lubricating, it just sprays into the atmosphere.
http://www.animatedengines.com/gnome.shtml
Coban
05-10-2011, 09:38 AM
This is the typical design.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CnTRDVaXo-4/TSlSijoaL7I/AAAAAAAAAZg/O3lBvzi_nZ8/s1600/File-Radial_engine.gif
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CnTRDVaXo-4/TSlSijoaL7I/AAAAAAAAAZg/O3lBvzi_nZ8/s1600/File-Radial_engine.gif
z_speedfreak
05-10-2011, 03:37 PM
wow thats cool! so does the crank move or not cause it looks to be moving in the 2nd animation.
anyone have more info or links to more info on these engines?
anyone have more info or links to more info on these engines?
Old SStroker
05-10-2011, 05:59 PM
wow thats cool! so does the crank move or not cause it looks to be moving in the 2nd animation.
anyone have more info or links to more info on these engines?
The fixed-crank/moving cylinders Gnome was the exception. Virtually all other rotary piston engines fix the cylinders and rotate the crank in a conventional manner. The prop is attached to the nose of the crank.
Radials generally have odd numbers of cylinders and some have multiple banks. Here's apicture of a 28 cyl radial(4 banks of 7 cylinders) from a B-36 (one of 6 on the aircraft in addition to 4 jets. "Six turnin', four burnin'" was the tag line.)
Each cylinder has two spark plugs, so a complete spark plug change is 28 x 2 x 6 or 336 plugs or 42 LS V8s!
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pknox/b36/engine.jpg
anyone have more info or links to more info on these engines?
The fixed-crank/moving cylinders Gnome was the exception. Virtually all other rotary piston engines fix the cylinders and rotate the crank in a conventional manner. The prop is attached to the nose of the crank.
Radials generally have odd numbers of cylinders and some have multiple banks. Here's apicture of a 28 cyl radial(4 banks of 7 cylinders) from a B-36 (one of 6 on the aircraft in addition to 4 jets. "Six turnin', four burnin'" was the tag line.)
Each cylinder has two spark plugs, so a complete spark plug change is 28 x 2 x 6 or 336 plugs or 42 LS V8s!
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pknox/b36/engine.jpg
z_speedfreak
05-15-2011, 05:51 PM
damn I'd love to see that cut-away in person! Thanks for the info Mr Buar! how about starting it? can you explain that? doesn't it fire off sot gun rounds or some thing?
and was that the 'merlin' that you posted?
and was that the 'merlin' that you posted?
1994Z28Lt1
05-21-2011, 01:36 PM
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
considering it made that power at probably about 2500 rpm, that pretty awesome. Making 4300 hp at 2500 gives you a tq figure of over 9000 lb/ft at 2500rpm. Now that is pretty impressive!!
considering it made that power at probably about 2500 rpm, that pretty awesome. Making 4300 hp at 2500 gives you a tq figure of over 9000 lb/ft at 2500rpm. Now that is pretty impressive!!
chuntington101
05-22-2011, 12:06 AM
considering it made that power at probably about 2500 rpm, that pretty awesome. Making 4300 hp at 2500 gives you a tq figure of over 9000 lb/ft at 2500rpm. Now that is pretty impressive!!
Well when each of your 28 cylinders are like half a 427 it makes it easy! lol
Google and Wiki radials and there is loads of info.
By the way the second post, where the cylinders move not the crank, is actually a rotoary engine. slightly diferent.
other intresting enignes are the Naiper Saber (24 cylinder H24), RR Griffin and merlin (as used in the P51 and spitfire), Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone (18 cylinder radial (2 stacks of 9 cylinders) and other 14 and 18 cylinder radials.
Im my eyes this really was the eara of the piston engine! the guys back then had some VERY intresting ideas (like sleave valves, sodium cooled exhaust valves, 4 valves per cylinder, direct fuel injection, N2O......). Obviously the jet engine (inc. Turbo props/shafts) took over thanks to their much better reilability (esp. at higher power ratings) and lower weights.
Chris.
Well when each of your 28 cylinders are like half a 427 it makes it easy! lol
Google and Wiki radials and there is loads of info.
By the way the second post, where the cylinders move not the crank, is actually a rotoary engine. slightly diferent.
other intresting enignes are the Naiper Saber (24 cylinder H24), RR Griffin and merlin (as used in the P51 and spitfire), Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone (18 cylinder radial (2 stacks of 9 cylinders) and other 14 and 18 cylinder radials.
Im my eyes this really was the eara of the piston engine! the guys back then had some VERY intresting ideas (like sleave valves, sodium cooled exhaust valves, 4 valves per cylinder, direct fuel injection, N2O......). Obviously the jet engine (inc. Turbo props/shafts) took over thanks to their much better reilability (esp. at higher power ratings) and lower weights.
Chris.
chuntington101
05-24-2011, 07:30 AM
The fixed-crank/moving cylinders Gnome was the exception. Virtually all other rotary piston engines fix the cylinders and rotate the crank in a conventional manner. The prop is attached to the nose of the crank.
Radials generally have odd numbers of cylinders and some have multiple banks. Here's apicture of a 28 cyl radial(4 banks of 7 cylinders) from a B-36 (one of 6 on the aircraft in addition to 4 jets. "Six turnin', four burnin'" was the tag line.)
Each cylinder has two spark plugs, so a complete spark plug change is 28 x 2 x 6 or 336 plugs or 42 LS V8s!
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
Old SStroker, the 4360's also had a bit of an appitite for oil. I read that they used to get through over 100gal of oil each mission. Many engines actually ran out of oil in flight and had to be shut down. If you look at the pistons in most aero engines of the era they had 2 oil control rings. one above the piston ring and one below. Also the popet vavle tech back then was no where near as good (at sealing) than they are today. This is why crazy ideas like sleave valves came into action (esp. in the UK).
Chris.
Radials generally have odd numbers of cylinders and some have multiple banks. Here's apicture of a 28 cyl radial(4 banks of 7 cylinders) from a B-36 (one of 6 on the aircraft in addition to 4 jets. "Six turnin', four burnin'" was the tag line.)
Each cylinder has two spark plugs, so a complete spark plug change is 28 x 2 x 6 or 336 plugs or 42 LS V8s!
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
Old SStroker, the 4360's also had a bit of an appitite for oil. I read that they used to get through over 100gal of oil each mission. Many engines actually ran out of oil in flight and had to be shut down. If you look at the pistons in most aero engines of the era they had 2 oil control rings. one above the piston ring and one below. Also the popet vavle tech back then was no where near as good (at sealing) than they are today. This is why crazy ideas like sleave valves came into action (esp. in the UK).
Chris.
87gnx
05-24-2011, 09:41 AM
Yeah, there's no sound like a radial engine thumpidy thump at flight idle!!. The most popular one out there is the Wasp Jr., or the R985, Its a nine cylinder 450hp Pratt that has two magnetos, one fires the odd cylinders, the other fires the even ones.Very easy to work on, but succeptable to liquid lock.Thats why you'll see the mechanics pull the engine through before start up.Yankee engineering at its finest!!.
67RSCamaroVette
05-24-2011, 10:50 PM
The fixed-crank/moving cylinders Gnome was the exception. Virtually all other rotary piston engines fix the cylinders and rotate the crank in a conventional manner. The prop is attached to the nose of the crank.
Radials generally have odd numbers of cylinders and some have multiple banks. Here's apicture of a 28 cyl radial(4 banks of 7 cylinders) from a B-36 (one of 6 on the aircraft in addition to 4 jets. "Six turnin', four burnin'" was the tag line.)
Each cylinder has two spark plugs, so a complete spark plug change is 28 x 2 x 6 or 336 plugs or 42 LS V8s!
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pknox/b36/engine.jpg
The only question now, is; how do I mount one in a car, and what transmission should I use?
Radials generally have odd numbers of cylinders and some have multiple banks. Here's apicture of a 28 cyl radial(4 banks of 7 cylinders) from a B-36 (one of 6 on the aircraft in addition to 4 jets. "Six turnin', four burnin'" was the tag line.)
Each cylinder has two spark plugs, so a complete spark plug change is 28 x 2 x 6 or 336 plugs or 42 LS V8s!
The most powerful 4360 had one supercharger and a pair of turbochargers. It made 4300 hp from it's 4360 or so cubic inches. That about the same power/cubic inch as a 350 hp 5.7L LS1.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pknox/b36/engine.jpg
The only question now, is; how do I mount one in a car, and what transmission should I use?
Old SStroker
05-25-2011, 04:22 PM
The only question now, is; how do I mount one in a car, and what transmission should I use?
Transmission? We don't need no stinkin' transmission with this beast!
Think early 'Art Arfons Green Monsters' and an upgraded TopFuel clutch.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSZRncqYZq-6KFJL6TE9DSzd7-zetpgghUM-fVk4qmAUt1C0MmQbGWL2Vp
Sounds like a project Jay Leno might find interesting, especially for the street.
Transmission? We don't need no stinkin' transmission with this beast!
Think early 'Art Arfons Green Monsters' and an upgraded TopFuel clutch.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSZRncqYZq-6KFJL6TE9DSzd7-zetpgghUM-fVk4qmAUt1C0MmQbGWL2Vp
Sounds like a project Jay Leno might find interesting, especially for the street.
chuntington101
05-26-2011, 07:26 AM
A guys in the UK has fitted a RR merlin engine (its not a merlin its the N/A version used in WW2 British tanks but i cant remember the name) in to a Rover SD1. Its still got a bonnet and even a windshield. he rad a 3:1 stepper gearset to bring the rpm range up a bit and then he used a Jag auto box.
Chris.
Chris.
z_speedfreak
05-26-2011, 07:55 AM
A guys in the UK has fitted a RR merlin engine (its not a merlin its the N/A version used in WW2 British tanks but i cant remember the name) in to a Rover SD1. Its still got a bonnet and even a windshield. he rad a 3:1 stepper gearset to bring the rpm range up a bit and then he used a Jag auto box.
Chris.
sweet! you don't have pics or a link do you?
Chris.
sweet! you don't have pics or a link do you?
chuntington101
05-27-2011, 10:07 AM
sweet! you don't have pics or a link do you?
Try googling 27ltr Rover SD1.
Do any of you guys know why all aircooled radials have an odd number of cylinders per row? I know the UK and the germans favoured 7 cylinders and the US went for 9,but why not 8?
One very intresting radial engines that was water cooled was the Jumo 222.
thanks,
Chris.
Try googling 27ltr Rover SD1.
Do any of you guys know why all aircooled radials have an odd number of cylinders per row? I know the UK and the germans favoured 7 cylinders and the US went for 9,but why not 8?
One very intresting radial engines that was water cooled was the Jumo 222.
thanks,
Chris.
joecar
05-27-2011, 02:47 PM
...
Do any of you guys know why all aircooled radials have an odd number of cylinders per row? I know the UK and the germans favoured 7 cylinders and the US went for 9,but why not 8?
...The reason is so that the firing order can be symmetrical starting from any cylinder (i.e. the step to the next cylinder is the same no matter which cylinder you start from);
e.g. compare with lug nut tightening sequence if you have 5 lugs vs 6 lugs;
symmetrical firing order avoids imbalance which may cause harmonics.
Do any of you guys know why all aircooled radials have an odd number of cylinders per row? I know the UK and the germans favoured 7 cylinders and the US went for 9,but why not 8?
...The reason is so that the firing order can be symmetrical starting from any cylinder (i.e. the step to the next cylinder is the same no matter which cylinder you start from);
e.g. compare with lug nut tightening sequence if you have 5 lugs vs 6 lugs;
symmetrical firing order avoids imbalance which may cause harmonics.
evolutioneng
05-31-2011, 02:40 AM
damn they made these engine.i wonder how much they are and if the block are aluminum to handle all that power.imma have to google this.has anyone tried running hydrogen on a ls motor?
SMALLBLOCKHERO
05-31-2011, 04:29 AM
the R2800 double wasp is the meanest ever shoved into an airframe...
some were turbo ..some were water methenol injected. nitrous experiments were also tried.
lil info here:
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800.htm
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800-2.jpg
some were turbo ..some were water methenol injected. nitrous experiments were also tried.
lil info here:
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800.htm
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800-2.jpg
chuntington101
05-31-2011, 06:49 AM
the R2800 double wasp is the meanest ever shoved into an airframe...
some were turbo ..some were water methenol injected. nitrous experiments were also tried.
lil info here:
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800.htm
The double wasps where very good. Powerful and reliable at the end of their development. Just a shame they weren't about a little earlier in WW2.
Chris.
some were turbo ..some were water methenol injected. nitrous experiments were also tried.
lil info here:
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/pr-2800.htm
The double wasps where very good. Powerful and reliable at the end of their development. Just a shame they weren't about a little earlier in WW2.
Chris.
SMALLBLOCKHERO
05-31-2011, 12:34 PM
The double wasps where very good. Powerful and reliable at the end of their development. Just a shame they weren't about a little earlier in WW2.
Chris.
too true brother. a lot more navy pilots might have lived and the IJN/IJA would not have lasted so long.
Chris.
too true brother. a lot more navy pilots might have lived and the IJN/IJA would not have lasted so long.
chuntington101
06-01-2011, 07:13 AM
too true brother. a lot more navy pilots might have lived and the IJN/IJA would not have lasted so long.
Its true for many things! I know RR in the UK had LOTS of money thrown at them by the British goveremnt to help with the developemnt of the Merlin and later Griffon engines. These became VERY good engines over time. However there was much less money spent on diffrent designs like the Napier Sabre (36ltr 24 cylinder H block engine) even though they can make MUCH more power.
Chris.
Its true for many things! I know RR in the UK had LOTS of money thrown at them by the British goveremnt to help with the developemnt of the Merlin and later Griffon engines. These became VERY good engines over time. However there was much less money spent on diffrent designs like the Napier Sabre (36ltr 24 cylinder H block engine) even though they can make MUCH more power.
Chris.