1994 383 Z28, MAJOR problems, advice needed.
05-22-2011, 09:21 PM
#1
1994 383 Z28, MAJOR problems, advice needed. Alright folks, I'll run down the car then the issue.
383 Stroker, PCMforless tune, built auto trans, motor has about 8K on it, and the trans has about 700 on it as of now.
Problem. It currently does not start. It cranks over just fine, but does not catch. It has fuel, but we are pretty sure it has no spark.
last week we changed the Optispark. The car was converted to a vented optispark when the motor was put it, but the vent lines were not connected or blocked off. The car was misfiring, so the optispark was replaced with another new unit. This time, the optispark's vac lines were capped off temporarily. Plugs and wires were also done at that time. This was about 3 weeks ago. I bought the car a couple of days after the opti was replaced and drove it for 2 weeks. The car made awesome power, and never failed to start up. Last week, the car began to misfire badly under load and hesitated horribly from stoplights. I had the codes scanned (a SES light lit up) and it indicated that the opti was bad.... code 16. Also, when that SES light would light up,the car ran BETTER, without a missfire, but slightly lacking in power.
We replaced the optispark with ANOTHER NEW unit. car started up and drove, but was again lacking in power severely. It also might have missfired a bit at that time. The NEXT MORNING, i was dropping the kids off at school and shut the car down. I turned the key over to start the engine back up and it would not catch at all. It would crank over just fine, but not even a sputter like it wanted to catch. I got it started after about 20 minutes of trying, and the car would start fine the rest of the day. I called up my friend that was helping with these issues, and I fired it up that afternoon to drive it to his shop. At this point, i was thinking well, we screwed up the firing order..... I drove 200 yards or so and the car just shut off. No sputter, nothing. Just lost all ignition power. All my interior electrics were fine, the motor just quit. At that point, I replaced the coil with a new MSD unit. The car cranked for a few tries and finally caught and started. I drove it out to my friends shop, and on the way, i decided to get on it to see what would happen. The car was extreemly doggy, little power, and shot black smoke out of the tailpipes.
We got it up on a lift and let it cool off. We found the number 8 spark plug wire melted and burnt badly, so we replaced it, double checked the firing order, and reconnected the plug wires to the opti. The car fired up and revved fine, with a bit of black smoke out of the tailpipes. We literally left it running to lower the lift, opened the garage door, and it died just sitting there. Total run time? Right around 1 minute. That was on friday afternoon.
Today, my friend looked at it, and it started right up. he took it for a drive, and the car was really doggy, and severely lacking in power again. He stopped, put fresh 93 octane into it (thinking it might have been bad gas) and drove it back to the shop. He **** it down, moved some other cars, and went back to drive it in. Guess what? NO START AGAIN.
So there it sits. I removed the ICM to test it, and Autozone says its good. I tried jiggling the wiring, no effect. I tested the two edge terminals on the ICM connector, and it has battery voltage at both with the key on. I didnt have someone there to crank over the engine, so I couldnt tell if the ICM was getting its signal from the PCM or not..... but thats where it sits.
Does anybody have ANY CLUE where to look next? I just paid 5K for this car, and all it is right now is an expensive lawn ornament. Needless to say, I'm pissed.
383 Stroker, PCMforless tune, built auto trans, motor has about 8K on it, and the trans has about 700 on it as of now.
Problem. It currently does not start. It cranks over just fine, but does not catch. It has fuel, but we are pretty sure it has no spark.
last week we changed the Optispark. The car was converted to a vented optispark when the motor was put it, but the vent lines were not connected or blocked off. The car was misfiring, so the optispark was replaced with another new unit. This time, the optispark's vac lines were capped off temporarily. Plugs and wires were also done at that time. This was about 3 weeks ago. I bought the car a couple of days after the opti was replaced and drove it for 2 weeks. The car made awesome power, and never failed to start up. Last week, the car began to misfire badly under load and hesitated horribly from stoplights. I had the codes scanned (a SES light lit up) and it indicated that the opti was bad.... code 16. Also, when that SES light would light up,the car ran BETTER, without a missfire, but slightly lacking in power.
We replaced the optispark with ANOTHER NEW unit. car started up and drove, but was again lacking in power severely. It also might have missfired a bit at that time. The NEXT MORNING, i was dropping the kids off at school and shut the car down. I turned the key over to start the engine back up and it would not catch at all. It would crank over just fine, but not even a sputter like it wanted to catch. I got it started after about 20 minutes of trying, and the car would start fine the rest of the day. I called up my friend that was helping with these issues, and I fired it up that afternoon to drive it to his shop. At this point, i was thinking well, we screwed up the firing order..... I drove 200 yards or so and the car just shut off. No sputter, nothing. Just lost all ignition power. All my interior electrics were fine, the motor just quit. At that point, I replaced the coil with a new MSD unit. The car cranked for a few tries and finally caught and started. I drove it out to my friends shop, and on the way, i decided to get on it to see what would happen. The car was extreemly doggy, little power, and shot black smoke out of the tailpipes.
We got it up on a lift and let it cool off. We found the number 8 spark plug wire melted and burnt badly, so we replaced it, double checked the firing order, and reconnected the plug wires to the opti. The car fired up and revved fine, with a bit of black smoke out of the tailpipes. We literally left it running to lower the lift, opened the garage door, and it died just sitting there. Total run time? Right around 1 minute. That was on friday afternoon.
Today, my friend looked at it, and it started right up. he took it for a drive, and the car was really doggy, and severely lacking in power again. He stopped, put fresh 93 octane into it (thinking it might have been bad gas) and drove it back to the shop. He **** it down, moved some other cars, and went back to drive it in. Guess what? NO START AGAIN.
So there it sits. I removed the ICM to test it, and Autozone says its good. I tried jiggling the wiring, no effect. I tested the two edge terminals on the ICM connector, and it has battery voltage at both with the key on. I didnt have someone there to crank over the engine, so I couldnt tell if the ICM was getting its signal from the PCM or not..... but thats where it sits.
Does anybody have ANY CLUE where to look next? I just paid 5K for this car, and all it is right now is an expensive lawn ornament. Needless to say, I'm pissed.
05-22-2011, 10:58 PM
#2
check the opti pig tail into the harness. the ground can come loose and need to be replaced. Its definitly an ignition issue. id change the plugs aswell sounds like theyre fouled.
05-23-2011, 12:14 AM
#4
Have you checked the MAF? One thing you mentioned that stood out to me is you said it ran better with the SES light on. I "think" in some situations it will put the car in limp mode and will run off the MAP sensor and not the MAF.
Just an idea. Keep us updated. It's always good to see closure. LOL.
Just an idea. Keep us updated. It's always good to see closure. LOL.
05-23-2011, 12:46 AM
#5
Yep, checked the MAF, everything was fine. I cleaned it too. This would NOT cause a no start condition though, for sure. I forgot to mention that I also changed the Coolant Temp Sensor (the one at the water pump) and there was no change.
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05-23-2011, 03:54 PM
#8
The replacement that is only A week old is an Accel unit, sealed with vac lines hooked up.
I tried unhooking the MAF and running prior to the no start... but that doesnt help the condition now.
Looked a bit further into it today. I messed around with the wiring near the opti harness (I actually disconnected the MAP, just to see what would happen) and the car started up. I thought that was wierd, so i started shaking harnesses starting on the drivers side and moving to the opposite side. I messed around pulling on the opti harness a bit and the car immediately died. After messing with it some more the car re started, and I could get it to stumble if i messed with the opti harness.
SO, that looks like the culprate. Quick question though: Would a bad opti harness cause the car to be WAY down on power when driving? I'm hoping that a new harness solves my issues.
I tried unhooking the MAF and running prior to the no start... but that doesnt help the condition now.
Looked a bit further into it today. I messed around with the wiring near the opti harness (I actually disconnected the MAP, just to see what would happen) and the car started up. I thought that was wierd, so i started shaking harnesses starting on the drivers side and moving to the opposite side. I messed around pulling on the opti harness a bit and the car immediately died. After messing with it some more the car re started, and I could get it to stumble if i messed with the opti harness.
SO, that looks like the culprate. Quick question though: Would a bad opti harness cause the car to be WAY down on power when driving? I'm hoping that a new harness solves my issues.
05-23-2011, 03:59 PM
#9
The replacement that is only A week old is an Accel unit, sealed with vac lines hooked up.
I tried unhooking the MAF and running prior to the no start... but that doesnt help the condition now.
Looked a bit further into it today. I messed around with the wiring near the opti harness (I actually disconnected the MAP, just to see what would happen) and the car started up. I thought that was wierd, so i started shaking harnesses starting on the drivers side and moving to the opposite side. I messed around pulling on the opti harness a bit and the car immediately died. After messing with it some more the car re started, and I could get it to stumble if i messed with the opti harness.
SO, that looks like the culprate. Quick question though: Would a bad opti harness cause the car to be WAY down on power when driving? I'm hoping that a new harness solves my issues.
I tried unhooking the MAF and running prior to the no start... but that doesnt help the condition now.
Looked a bit further into it today. I messed around with the wiring near the opti harness (I actually disconnected the MAP, just to see what would happen) and the car started up. I thought that was wierd, so i started shaking harnesses starting on the drivers side and moving to the opposite side. I messed around pulling on the opti harness a bit and the car immediately died. After messing with it some more the car re started, and I could get it to stumble if i messed with the opti harness.
SO, that looks like the culprate. Quick question though: Would a bad opti harness cause the car to be WAY down on power when driving? I'm hoping that a new harness solves my issues.
Since Ive had the car for literally 3 weeks, and the thing wouldn't start! LOL I ordered a harness from Chandler Motorsports, and we'll see if that fixes things.
05-26-2011, 07:36 PM
#13
Update, with more ******* issues.
We figured out that the optispark wiring harness was bad. I could mess with it and get the car to start just fine, and if I wiggled it too much the car would either stumble badly or die outright. I ordered a vented optispark harness from chandler Motorsports and got it into the car today. The car fired right up without any issues. I got out on the highway, and put the pedal to the floor...... still a lack of power, and black smoke out the back of the car. I stopped by a friends shop, thinking I had fouled plugs.... went to re-start it and NOTHING. It would crank, and try to catch, but wouldnt start up. We sprayed a bit of starting fluid in the TB and BOOM, it starts, after a HORRIBLE rattle. We checked fuel pressure, and its exactly what it should be.
After we got it started, we noticed the SES light was lit again. constantly while it was running. I took it out on the road, and I'll be damned if the thing had decent power back, and would spin the tires off the car again. I had the codes scanned, and guess what? DTC 36. High resolution pulse not detected.
WTF????? The car starts (with considerable effort) and the SES light stays lit with the code 36 constantly. This optispark has literally 40 miles on it, and is sealed and vented properly. What the hell is going on? I'm about done with this car..... Ive been able to drive it for 1 week out of the 4 Ive owned it, after paying 5K to get it. I'm really not happy.
Any suggestions?
We figured out that the optispark wiring harness was bad. I could mess with it and get the car to start just fine, and if I wiggled it too much the car would either stumble badly or die outright. I ordered a vented optispark harness from chandler Motorsports and got it into the car today. The car fired right up without any issues. I got out on the highway, and put the pedal to the floor...... still a lack of power, and black smoke out the back of the car. I stopped by a friends shop, thinking I had fouled plugs.... went to re-start it and NOTHING. It would crank, and try to catch, but wouldnt start up. We sprayed a bit of starting fluid in the TB and BOOM, it starts, after a HORRIBLE rattle. We checked fuel pressure, and its exactly what it should be.
After we got it started, we noticed the SES light was lit again. constantly while it was running. I took it out on the road, and I'll be damned if the thing had decent power back, and would spin the tires off the car again. I had the codes scanned, and guess what? DTC 36. High resolution pulse not detected.
WTF????? The car starts (with considerable effort) and the SES light stays lit with the code 36 constantly. This optispark has literally 40 miles on it, and is sealed and vented properly. What the hell is going on? I'm about done with this car..... Ive been able to drive it for 1 week out of the 4 Ive owned it, after paying 5K to get it. I'm really not happy.
Any suggestions?
05-26-2011, 08:37 PM
#14
^That's why I asked what brand of Opti. I have seen em fail in less time than that and Accels are shitty!
For the same or just a hair more you could have bought a genuine AC DELCO/DELPHII unit.
The thing about it is, there could be an underlying problem that is causing the opti to fail, such as bad seals, water pump etc etc. You said you had it sealed so it has to be the accel unit.
I, and several others have gotten an Original Delphii Unit off of ebay, search under Delphii and see if you can find it, if not hit me up in a PM and I will send you a link. I have absolutely nothing to do with that business, other than being a customer. They cost @ 300 plus shipping.
For the same or just a hair more you could have bought a genuine AC DELCO/DELPHII unit.
The thing about it is, there could be an underlying problem that is causing the opti to fail, such as bad seals, water pump etc etc. You said you had it sealed so it has to be the accel unit.
I, and several others have gotten an Original Delphii Unit off of ebay, search under Delphii and see if you can find it, if not hit me up in a PM and I will send you a link. I have absolutely nothing to do with that business, other than being a customer. They cost @ 300 plus shipping.
05-26-2011, 08:55 PM
#15
It just seems strange that I replace the opti harness, it starts great, no SES light.... runs like a dog for a while and now I have an issue literaly 20 miles later where the SES light up and it runs okay.... but with a DTC 36.
I have MABEY 50 miles on this opti total now. The seals are good, the vac lines are hooked up, the water pump is not leaking, absolutely nothing is leaking from the front of the motor at all, the car hasn't seen rain......
I disconnected the opti harness at the intake and tested the voltage (key on) at the purple/white tracer wire. I get 5.01 volts. I'm going to test at the opti connector itself, and if its also 5.01 votls... I guess its the opti at that point. Not happy at all.
anything else it could possibly be?
I have MABEY 50 miles on this opti total now. The seals are good, the vac lines are hooked up, the water pump is not leaking, absolutely nothing is leaking from the front of the motor at all, the car hasn't seen rain......
I disconnected the opti harness at the intake and tested the voltage (key on) at the purple/white tracer wire. I get 5.01 volts. I'm going to test at the opti connector itself, and if its also 5.01 votls... I guess its the opti at that point. Not happy at all.
anything else it could possibly be?
05-27-2011, 05:58 AM
#16
I disconnected the opti harness at the intake and tested the voltage (key on) at the purple/white tracer wire. I get 5.01 volts. I'm going to test at the opti connector itself, and if its also 5.01 votls... I guess its the opti at that point. Not happy at all.
anything else it could possibly be?
anything else it could possibly be?
FWIW many of us have been lured and tempted when it comes to the Opti. There were a **** load of us that bought froma company that said they were OEM opti's, even had the same colored cap made and the right number etched into the casting, but they were cheap Chinese knock offs and the sensors died in short order. MSD came out with their version and it ended up being a turd as well. The only one that I ever thought was better than the Delco/Delphii was the Dynaspark, and they are out of business AFAIK.
05-27-2011, 09:41 AM
#17
I doubt it. Did you check voltage from the opti to the coil, thats the only other place.
FWIW many of us have been lured and tempted when it comes to the Opti. There were a **** load of us that bought froma company that said they were OEM opti's, even had the same colored cap made and the right number etched into the casting, but they were cheap Chinese knock offs and the sensors died in short order. MSD came out with their version and it ended up being a turd as well. The only one that I ever thought was better than the Delco/Delphii was the Dynaspark, and they are out of business AFAIK.
FWIW many of us have been lured and tempted when it comes to the Opti. There were a **** load of us that bought froma company that said they were OEM opti's, even had the same colored cap made and the right number etched into the casting, but they were cheap Chinese knock offs and the sensors died in short order. MSD came out with their version and it ended up being a turd as well. The only one that I ever thought was better than the Delco/Delphii was the Dynaspark, and they are out of business AFAIK.
thepartsladi? I saw a few threads about that actually. I also went through and read about the Chandler Motorsports Optis, and thats what i think I'm going with. He's relatively local to me as well, plus the one I'm looking at has a lifetime warranty.
I know there are some people here who hate Chandler MS, but I've seen many more positive threads than negative ones. I'll bring the Accel opti back on warranty, and we'll go from there.
05-27-2011, 12:16 PM
#18
thepartsladi? I saw a few threads about that actually. I also went through and read about the Chandler Motorsports Optis, and thats what i think I'm going with. He's relatively local to me as well, plus the one I'm looking at has a lifetime warranty.
I know there are some people here who hate Chandler MS, but I've seen many more positive threads than negative ones. I'll bring the Accel opti back on warranty, and we'll go from there.
I know there are some people here who hate Chandler MS, but I've seen many more positive threads than negative ones. I'll bring the Accel opti back on warranty, and we'll go from there.
05-27-2011, 12:52 PM
#19
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I will say that CMS will back up their warranty, so if there is a problem, at least you're not having to buy a new one. For me, he shipped the replacement out with a check to cover the shipping costs of the damaged opti. I don't know why mine failed and I didn't use the replacement since I swapped to a vented opti.
And trust me, we all know your frustration. My first few posts on here were about pouring gas on my car and igniting it with a match just to put it out of it's (and mine) misery.
Good Luck!
And trust me, we all know your frustration. My first few posts on here were about pouring gas on my car and igniting it with a match just to put it out of it's (and mine) misery.
Good Luck!
06-03-2011, 01:46 AM
#20
Update.... It was the ******* Opti. At least I got that out of the way.... Done by myself in about 3 total hours (with pulling the rad and fans out the top). This is my first attempt at an opti replacement, and it went good. Car runs great now!