JohnWaynesZ28

I know this may be a dumb question but why do people build an 8.8 verus a junkyard 9" or 12 bolt? I understand there are lots of parts for the 8.8 but it cant be much different than a 9"??? I only ask because I have access to all three for the same price. Im not really sure if I want to build one or not but Ive been looking into it and it seems everyone builds an 8.8 and I dont know why.

Please be gentle.

babbage1109

iTrader: (11)

I'd say it's more available and cheaper maybe

JohnWaynesZ28

Really?? well if thats the only reason then I may try the 9"

jetaws6

iTrader: (3)

Chews up less power and I think its lighter

HoLLo

iTrader: (17)

I'd say higher availability. A junk unit is usually cheaper to begin with. Both will take about equal amount of fabrication to get it to fit a F-Body.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

8.8 is availible. and decently strong.
12 bolt is decently strong, but harder to find.
9" is unique in that it has a rep for being bulletproof, except there are many variations of them.... they're almost easy to find, but the easy to find ones are commonly weak... you have to find the proper centersection, but if you do, it can be pretty strong... however if you want bulletproof, you will be building a 9" that doesnt use any OEM parts.

JohnWaynesZ28

Thanks guys but one more question
So how do I know if Im looking at a strong 9" centersection???

The one Im looking at is out of a truck and already has a posi.
I just need something to hold 400-450hp in a weekend car. I may put 8k on it a yr. and track it twice a year just to see what I can do.

HoLLo

iTrader: (17)

Any decent truck center section should hold that power good, just might want a fresh rebuild on it for security.

Mighty Whitey

The main reason for an 8.8 swap, is for the redicculous availability. Ford used it in as many vehicles as gm used the 7.5" bolt, and they still use it today.

The 9" was halted in 1986, the 12 bolt, back in the early 70's.

As long as you're not talking about building some class racer with rediculous power levels (500+), the 8.8 has advantages over the 9", that it has less parasitic loss, weighs less, yet retains most of the strength.

If you're looking for a cheap, reliable, proven, and light weight rearend that you can still go down to the dealer and buy parts for, go with an 8.8, and try like hell to make a torque arm bracket that doesn't fail.

rabbit320

iTrader: (11)

is there a 'favored' car to pull an 8.8 from? (more common than other cars or needs less fab work?) and how could one get the stud spacing to match an f-bod vs whatever it came off of; custom axles? and yea i was worried about the torque arm mount...

sorry if hijacked...

cantfind2nd

iTrader: (24)

if i did it over id probably just use a mustang 8.8 rather than an explorer.explorer is big and heavy. 3.25 inch tubes, mustang ones are way smaller. mustang is 2 inch narrow each side. after i shortened long axle to match short side im 3.50 narrowed each side and had to mini tub.... but it looks sick.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

If the 9-inch was halted in 1986, what is Ford putting behind Expeditions, Excursions, 250/250 trucks? Surely not 8.8's.

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

the large fords get the 10.25 inch rear... semi-floating shafts..etc.. 1983-and-newer F-250s, and full-floater in F-250HDs and F-350s.

theres other rear axles ford has made.. its not like theres only 3 or 4 out there.

edit:
im almost positive theres a 10.5" rear too... but i dont know what it came in.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. I had never heard of those. I just assumed (wrongly) that the 9-inch was their catch-all heavy duty rear end. It seems difficult to fins what rear-end is used in certain vehicles. internet searches don't always turn up that specific information.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

One thing that wasn't mentioned here...
A 9" rear has a stamped steel center section which will allow an adapter to be welded to it to fit our (F-Body) torque arm cars. The cast center on an 8.8 and 12 bolt is difficult to weld to reliably and as such adapt to an F-Body (or any non leaf spring) car.

There are several companies that sell kits to adapt 9" centers to F-Bodies and people make new 12 bolt and S60 center sections specifically for the torque arm mount. While the 8.8 is quite plentiful, strong and I am a skilled fabricator (on a home shop level), I chose a 9" because of parts availability and reliable mounting options.

I also like the drop out center sections but that is personal preference.

Kaddø

The reason most people are using the explorer 8.8 is that it has 3.25" axle tubes like stated above but what wasn't mentioned is that it also has 31 spline axles, disc brakes, limited slip 3:42,3:73 and 4:10 gears factory just depending on which one you get and it has sway bars and emergency brakes. And it has a long side and a short side axle for to narrow it 2 and 1/4 inches all you need to do is get another short axle and cut and reweld the ends on. The explorer 8.8 has undergone many tests and has been shown to be stronger then the 28 spline ford 9 inch the dana 40 dana 60 and the chevy 12 bolt

Gimme

iTrader: (1)

To answer the original question, less unsprung weight and less parasitic loss.

You don't "need" to weld anything to the 8.8 if you use a Mustang-style torque arm and either fabricate a new front TA mount or modify the Mustang-style one.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...8-project.html

Gimme

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, you don't want an Exploder/Mtneer case for car applications; it's way too heavy, and it's a royal PITA to adapt the GM 10-bolt axle tubes to the Exploder tubes, unless you machine collars (which adds more weight.) Just go pick up a used Mustang 8.8 case, pick up a 31-spline TracLoc from an Exploder in your choice of gear ratio, rebuild it, and have Moser cut you some 31-Spline axles with the Chevy bolt pattern. For more questions, see my thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...8-project.html

The Exploder/Mtneer case works great for off-road applications.

Kaddø

Your build looks great and I am sure it is a very good setup and will do an outstanding job. But the MONEY alone is probably 5 times (easily) what the explorer rearend costs. Now you mentioned weight

Got these from a couple of different ford websites.

these are the mustang 8.8's

8.8" Rear Axle w/ diff, axles, fluid, & backing plates (4-lug) = 160.0 pounds

8.8" Rear Axle w/ diff, axles, fluid, backing plates, & drum brakes (4-lug) = 195.0 pounds

and

8.8 data.

Axle 15.0lbs each
Housing 72.2lbs
T-loc 28 Differential 18.3lbs
3.55 Gears 18.8lbs
Rotor 10.0lbs each
Varga Caliper 9.3lbs each
Caliper bracket 3.0lbs each
Gear cover 2.8lbs
Fluid 2.0lbs
Brake pad set 1.5lbs all four
MM Lower shock mount 1.0lbs
Bumpstop bracket 0.8lbs
Mooseballs 10.0lbs

199lbs with brakes.
156lbs without brakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell (moddedmustangs.com
8.8 with Mark Williams 35 spline gun drilled axles, spool, yoke, Aerospace brakes, bracing, coil over brackets 182 lbs


and now the explorer

Explorer 8.8 Measurements:
Weight (complete assembly w/ brakes etc.): 174 lb.
O.D. of tubes: 3.250".
Tube thickness: .250" (some are .188”!)
Ring gear diameter: 8.800".
Ring gear bolts: 7/16" dia. (qty. 10).
Pinion diameter/splines: 1.625 / 30.
Axle shaft/splines: 1.320 / 31.
Rotor thickness (where it mounts to axle is .250").
Overall width 59.625" (the F8.8 is .950" narrower then a TJ Dana 35).
(The F-150 8.8 is drum brake and width WMS to WMS is 65.5”.)
Hole diameter for ABS sensor in top of housing: .811".
Bolt size (U-joint flange to yoke) is: 12 x 1.75 x 30 mm
Centerline of housing to C/L of pinion difference is 3.875" toward the P/S.
Pinion offset: P/S to C/L of Pinion, 27-3/4" (no rotor on axle), D/S to C/L of Pinion, 31-5/8" (no rotor on axle). (this measurement is 2.5" more offset to the P/S then a TJ Dana 35).

Specs:
Code Capacity Ratio
43 Open 3200 3.08
41 Open 3200 3.27
42 Open 4.10
46 Open 3.73
45 Open 3200 3.55
D4 Limited Slip 3200 3.73
D2 Limited Slip 4.10
L73 Limited Slip 3.73
L - Limited Slip Differential
C - Conventional Differential

Couldn't find any real what looked to me to be conclusive weight results for the camaro but here is what I did find.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
how much does a 12 bolt rear end weight, without springs or anything like that, just the rear and drum brakes?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just weighed an 8.2" 10 bolt I sold on ebay in preparation for shipping. I know you asked about weight for a 12 bolt, but since I don't see any answer posted yet I figured I'd throw this out there.

Using my bathroom scale, my 10 bolt weighed in at 140#. That's including axles and backing plates. No drums or brake hardware and no fluid in that measurement.

-gw

------------------
1967 Camaro
406/M20 11.94@117
http://www.mindspring.com/~gordon.warren/

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CamaroNOTcameroJan 2nd, 02, 01:18 PM
hehe, thats a good idea, i'll guess it to be about 170lbs, i think that's a good estimate. thanks for the help.
too bad these things are so damn long!

Kaddø

So even if the explorer weighs say 30 pounds more. And I am guessing it is less then that. For the Money and strength I would say that the 30 pounds is well worth the trouble. Just my opinion not trying to say one way is better then the other.