Gen 5 Camaro Power-Adder Tech - 1SIKSS 711rwhp/607ftlb

2011 2SS LS3 Synergy Green Camaro
Mods:
Whipple 2.9L 3.875 Pulley
Custom Cam By Geoff Skinner@EPS
Kooks Full Exhaust
GMM Ripshift Shifter
Cold Air Inductions Intake
Pfadt Racing Stage Three Suspension
Mcloed RXT twin disc clutch with billett flywheel

Dyno Numbers Pre Blower
463RWHP/423FTLBTQ
Dyno Numbers After Blower
655RWHP/578FTLBTQ
Tuned By Tracy@Cincy Speed
A/F 11.4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fmFE...e_gdata_player


Alky Control 100% methanol
711rwhp/607ftlb
21degrees timing
A/F 11.04


injectionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ0re6E_KRk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Nasty for sure, that whipple definetly has the grunt. Nice job.

Thanks! Just wish I could get it to hook!!!

Sick car! Have you gotten it out to the track yet?

Sick car! Have you gotten it out to the track yet?

I know he has but I am unsure of what he runs. I raced him at "Thursday Night Lightz" at the track last week. Not sure what he ran as they don't show times and rip the time slip in half.

Car's still WAY rich at 11:1

Sick car! Have you gotten it out to the track yet?

Yes as stated by the other member i have but on the 20" wheels even the drag radials can't help it, with 2.1 60' ands spinning shifting into 4th the car goes 12.1x

Car's still WAY rich at 11:1

We know, it's not way rich just conservative, I'm honestly little gun shy I don't want to push the rings too far. Why don't you ship me your wheels and tires so I can see what the car will do!!!:nod:

11:1 is way rich. A proper tune isn't going to 'push' anything and being super rich isn't going to make the engine live longer. Tune it properly and pulley up to make the same power, and you win. To each his own, at least it makes a good number :)

10lbs on boost, figure it's making 800plus at the crank. What afr you think is safe with 100% meth injection after maf?

Car's still WAY rich at 11:1

hmmm.... its on methanol injection, on top of this the is a 10.9:1 compression motor, methanol and its current AF has a cooling affect which in turn increases safety, but i guess you are a tuner, and know more.....:eyes:

10lbs on boost, figure it's making 800plus at the crank. What afr you think is safe with 100% meth injection after maf?

your AF is perfect for meth injection.... this other guy is a tool in my opinion, and doesnt know what he is talking about....

your AF is perfect for meth injection.... this other guy is a tool in my opinion, and doesnt know what he is talking about....

Lol I was thinking we were pretty good....
But I'm no tuner....I do pay a guy to do it lol

Rich is better than being lean, so it dont matter if its "way" lean, which its not.

hmmm.... its on methanol injection, on top of this the is a 10.9:1 compression motor, methanol and its current AF has a cooling affect which in turn increases safety, but i guess you are a tuner, and know more.....:eyes:

Clearly I'm the tool, yet a sponsored shop's lackey cant even get the LS3's compression ratio correct (10.7:1 Bob)

Seeing as the wideband is going to read lambda, and not individual AFR between the two fuels, unless you're tuning by EGT it's all a big damned guess anyway, and the actual reading will change depending on the ratio of water/meth, pure meth, and total amount of meth that is being sprayed relative to what is being supported by your fuel system. That said, if he's only spraying enough meth to drop the AFR from 11.4 to 11.04, the car's still running rich. Call it "safe" if you'd like, but it's running excessively rich regardless.

The meth is 100% as stated no mixture, it is being used a a fuel replacement i.e. We pull fuel and replace with meth there for the a/f is different than it would be if it were straight gas. The alky is a standalone and has nothing to do with the cars fuel system. Run one m15 nozzle. How would it not read the a/f between the two fuels? It pics up the reading after the point of burn from the two

Coming from both the tuner and the maker of alky controls our a/f is spot on for setup...

The meth is 100% as stated no mixture, it is being used a a fuel replacement i.e. We pull fuel and replace with meth there for the a/f is different than it would be if it were straight gas. The alky is a standalone and has nothing to do with the cars fuel system. Run one m15 nozzle. How would it not read the a/f between the two fuels? It pics up the reading after the point of burn from the two


Let me try to simplify it. The air/fuel sensor in the dyno reads lambda, or just a basic coefficient of any given number (in most cases, 14.7:1 for gasoline). It will read parts fuel per part air, period. It doesn't care if those parts are gasoline, methanol, alcohol, brake parts cleaner, or kool-aid, because it's basically just an air particle reader/counter.

Now that being said, if you compare the stoich AFR of the two different fuels, you can obviously see that you need a lot more methanol to burn then you would fuel.
14.7:1 gasoline
~6.3:1 methanol

If you were comparing a partial meth burn to a gasoline-only burn, the two resulting AFR ratios wouldn't mean much of anything compared to each other, because at the same 'reported' AFR, the methanol burn is actually much leaner because the fuel has a much lower stoich coefficient. Again, this is a result of lambda value being set for gasoline stoich for both runs (this is just a read-out and not wholly important)

If you're pulling fuel and adding meth to replace it, 11:1 based on a 14.7:1 readout sounds pretty close, as it is much leaner in reality then 11:1 on gasoline due to the stoich coefficient of methanol, which would make more sense. You didn't specify and I assumed you were just adding meth and timing, instead of reworking the entire tune.

I've learned a lot from this thread

It was specified clearly in the very first post were it says 100%meth injection. Obviously you haven't dealt with the alky controls setup or you would have been a little more informend. It doesn't matter to me just think maybe you shoulda asked more about the setup if it was a question instead of ASS U MEing

I understood it was 100% methanol, you never mentioned retuning the car from the previous numbers to take out fuel. You'd be surprised how many people just run methanol as a piggyback to a regular tune to turn up boost or timing.

Well you can't really do that on a whipple setup after the change whipple made. The IAT is in the back of the intake so yes, the air is cooled pre charge the IAT never sees that temp drop so it's gotta be worked into the tune, basically adding timing because of the "race gas" like effect instead of lower IAT

Let me try to simplify it. The air/fuel sensor in the dyno reads lambda, or just a basic coefficient of any given number (in most cases, 14.7:1 for gasoline). It will read parts fuel per part air, period. It doesn't care if those parts are gasoline, methanol, alcohol, brake parts cleaner, or kool-aid, because it's basically just an air particle reader/counter.

Now that being said, if you compare the stoich AFR of the two different fuels, you can obviously see that you need a lot more methanol to burn then you would fuel.
14.7:1 gasoline
~6.3:1 methanol

If you were comparing a partial meth burn to a gasoline-only burn, the two resulting AFR ratios wouldn't mean much of anything compared to each other, because at the same 'reported' AFR, the methanol burn is actually much leaner because the fuel has a much lower stoich coefficient. Again, this is a result of lambda value being set for gasoline stoich for both runs (this is just a read-out and not wholly important)

If you're pulling fuel and adding meth to replace it, 11:1 based on a 14.7:1 readout sounds pretty close, as it is much leaner in reality then 11:1 on gasoline due to the stoich coefficient of methanol, which would make more sense. You didn't specify and I assumed you were just adding meth and timing, instead of reworking the entire tune.

wow, i am off a tenth or two on the exact compression ratio lol... i discredited now....

out of curiosity how many cars with meth injection have you tuned? on those cars you have tuned, how many of them have you pulled the plugs and read them after dyno pull to see how hot the plug is? just answer these questions then i will move on to my next question or explanation..