97Z28SS

iTrader: (5)

Have any of you guys seen the info on these 23* heads, they have "no pushrod pinch" (npp) WOW.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/245NPPRelease.php

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

WOW what? It's a 245cc 23º head. There's only about 50 other 245+cc heads on the market for a sbc. I like how flow numbers above .750 aren't listed. I've seen a lot of flow bench results from AFR heads not living up to the hype.

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

AI is better

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

I want to know how they ran them and by who.

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

also curious why they developed this head, all Tony Mamo ever talks about is port velocity, torque, blah blah blah. Now he has a 245 head with no pinch ready to take on the world. I like this quote:

"It will drop on your 23° shortblock as easily as our 227 or 235 SBC product and in fact shares indentical valve centerlines and rocker stud locations to both of those heads. However...this product will not accept stud mount style rockers and a shaft mount rocker system with the proper intake offset must be used."

LOL

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

deleted

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Mine were ported to 227ccs, but FWIW My AFR 220s didn't drop off up top, and was still gaining from .700 to .750 and probably held peak past .800...but they stopped testing at .750. As-Cast these heads flow what mine did after porting.

I feel there are not many 23* heads that are capable of what AFRs can do in the right hands, and although these are not for everyone you can't say you aren't curious what these would do on an aggressive drag-race NA LT1. 750hp NA on pump gas? I'd love to see it!

If they give me a set for free I'll test them on an engine dyno on my fairly stout SR 383(my .73x" int lift cam should be OK for these heads, but I'd imagine close to .800 would be better) against my current top-of-the-line ported but old style 220s...and then we can separate advertising from real world performance .

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

I ran AFR heads cuz I got a good deal on them, but is was nothing AFR about them anymore like yours. I just don't think they're all they're hyped up to be, and in the 220+cc range there are quite a few other heads I'd rather have. Guys that need shaft mount rockers for their heads just to work don't care if the head is 2000 or 4000 bucks because they've already spent 3x that on their motor. Just my opinion of course. Lots of cheap castings out there to CNC!

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Very valid point...the real potential is after porting, and then you have to credit the porter just as much as the manufacturer of the foundation he started on. Their heads are supposed to be a lot better out-of-the-box now then they used to be though, which is why I would love to see a comparison of these heads As-Cast versus older castings which have been ported and worked on.

I know I'm not the only one who has ported AFRs and is wondering whether these will out perform them as-is, or if I would have to drop another 1k+ to have them properly ported to notice any benefit.

Plenty of heads are available for SBCs and LT1s that can make huge power...but for most people the price, performance, and ease of just shipping out your stockers to get worked on is too tempting.

Wicked94Z

iTrader: (26)

I dunno I've seen the 220 eliminators down 20 cfm on some realistic flow benches, and also 20 hp down to some dart 227s that flowed approximately the same cfm (actually slightly less) on the same bench. The 195 and 210 eliminator heads are REALLY fast ports and that will make good low torque numbers, but there is such thing as too much velocity and choke. Also that silly wing thing in the bowl is absolutely pointless for everything except flow numbers. I've saw one 210cc example where the porter removed the wing, slightly reshaped the port, LOST flow numbers on the bench and made a 5% gain on the dyno. Doesn't sound like much, but that was a 650 hp motor.

Tony Shepherd

iTrader: (4)

Funny, my AFR's are bolted on as from AFR (with the exception of converting them to reverse flow) are untouched. Has not been in the hands of any head porter. Seem to work fine for me. Mine flowed within 2% of what AFR advertised.


I don't think anyone with a LT1 can use the 245's personally. You need a big bore for that head that we can not get with our stock blocks. The AFR 235's are pushing it and you are still shrouding the valves but they seem to work for me.

As stated above there are many head company choices out there. Some work better than others. I think AFR is on top. But as with any head choice, the rest of your combo has to work well with it to get the goal you desire.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

[QUOTE=Wicked94Z;15091024]Chuck Norris approves of this message

[IMG]pic deletedQUOTE]


dude quit hating lol..........i know ur pro AI for some reason......but you have to admit their stuff is on ALOT of fast cars and their cylinder head design is very good.........ill spare the technical mumbo jumbo from this post


exactly

97Z28SS

iTrader: (5)

Well Wicked for me the WOW is no pushrod pinch which will increase flow potential way past what any of the current 23* heads can attain. Plus thoughts of a 4.250" bore x 4" stroke Motown SBC with these heads fully ported is what I was thinking of or God forbid someone finally makes a 4.125" bore LT1 block for us to use. Also just out of curiosity does AI have any 23* non raised runner heads that flow 330 cfm, not trying to be a smarta$$ just asking?

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

Flow bench racing FTW.

And don't expect someone to invest R&D into a dying platform where they would be lucky to sell 10 blocks.

Tony Shepherd

iTrader: (4)

No flow bench racing here. I have the track #'s too.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

Good question..advertised i do not beleive they do.....but does afr have a 4.125 Bore LT1 they are testing on as well??? I think not......also check your flow test parameters.....there are alot of other things that can "affect" flow numbers besides the head such as pipe extensions, bore diameters.......etc.....

Also I've seen plenty of "330" cfm heads get chewed up by "310" cfm heads on identical motors........so be careful with the flow nubmer game......its something that internet people love to talk about........





same here tony....3500lbs running bottom 10's @ 132+mph NA.......about to be 9's

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

Wasn't refering to you. I was just simply implying buying heads by comparing advertised flow #'s between companies will often lead to disappointment.

quik95lt1

iTrader: (7)

well said

Tony Shepherd

iTrader: (4)

Good point.

Big Al

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=
I don't think anyone with a LT1 can use the 245's personally. You need a big bore for that head that we can not get with our stock blocks. The AFR 235's are pushing it and you are still shrouding the valves but they seem to work for me.

As stated above there are many head company choices out there. Some work better than others. I think AFR is on top. But as with any head choice, the rest of your combo has to work well with it to get the goal you desire.[/QUOTE]

Here is someone you can believe:
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18086

Al