Nice quality Valve Train
07-05-2011, 11:48 PM
#1
Nice quality Valve Train Well going to be doing a NSA rocker swap with 1.8/1.6s as a experiment with suggestions from Pro-Jection Eng.
Now I need 8 NSA 1.6 ratio rockers I know ill have to get a curtain brand for the 1.8s that Projection suggested
So list I have complied is
Patriot Gold spring kit
Comp pro mag 1.6 rockers
Trick flow guide plates
1.8 Crowers
and push rods not sure of brand yet.
So what you guys think? Doing the 1.8 experiment being its real easy to change rockers if it does not show noticeable change.
Now I need 8 NSA 1.6 ratio rockers I know ill have to get a curtain brand for the 1.8s that Projection suggested
So list I have complied is
Patriot Gold spring kit
Comp pro mag 1.6 rockers
Trick flow guide plates
1.8 Crowers
and push rods not sure of brand yet.
So what you guys think? Doing the 1.8 experiment being its real easy to change rockers if it does not show noticeable change.
07-06-2011, 01:21 AM
#2
You have no way of knowing if it's a "noticeable change"...
That's being said, I think it would be a good rocker setup for sure... The 1.8 ratio will make the intake lobeore aggressive and that's will help the POS 306 cam
I would run a 1.7 on the exhaust and spray the **** out of it.
That's being said, I think it would be a good rocker setup for sure... The 1.8 ratio will make the intake lobeore aggressive and that's will help the POS 306 cam
I would run a 1.7 on the exhaust and spray the **** out of it.
07-06-2011, 01:32 AM
#3
Well found a deal on EVERY part I posted on here. So i might do that first then get the 1.8 rockers and get back to back results.
Was told it wouldn't hurt to even go to a 1.5 on the exhaust but think ill stick with the 1.6 on that side and do the 1.8 on the intake.
Was told it wouldn't hurt to even go to a 1.5 on the exhaust but think ill stick with the 1.6 on that side and do the 1.8 on the intake.
07-06-2011, 06:51 AM
#6
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I like the ultras because they have the clips on the side to help prevent side to side movement. The pressed in ones will slide to much and the bearings spill into ur motor. Ask me how i know?
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07-06-2011, 08:44 AM
#9
Village Troll 
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You now have the Grumpy Pants seal of approval.
They have been responsible for stable valvetrains far more than failures. This goes back to the retarded Comp R debate where idiots would try and blame the components rather than their incompetence.
07-06-2011, 11:20 AM
#16
TECH Fanatic
I've heard the samething. Crower makes a longarm endurance backset rocker or something to correct it, we'll see. If it was that simple I'd already have 1.8's.
07-06-2011, 11:57 AM
#18
I have run 1.8s in the past and now have 1.7s on the exhaust on one of my setups...
They work, but the geometry on a SBC isn't designed for it... BBC and LSx all have been designed with those types of ratios...
It can be done, and done successfully, but ideall you should go with a different cam...
I personally now only design cams that require 1.5s, you can use 1.6s, but it just pushes up the useable RPM range and causes the roll-over in power up top to be more agressive (ie, you make more power to peak, but the fall off is much sharper). Where-as the falloff with 1.5s is a gradual taper, not a cliff... You can also design with 1.6s in mind, and have teh same mannerisms as 1.5s, just that I prefer not to... Just wanted to clarify I wasn't making a generalization of 1.5s/1.6s or above... just stating that a well designed cam meant for 1.5s will exhibit certain characteristics when run with a higher ratio...
A properly designed cam will only need the rocker it was designed to work with. The LT4 HOT cam was designed to work with 1.6s rockers. They also kept the spring-pressures tight to not cause excessive lifter/cam-lobe pressure.
Then again, the simplicity of being to swap a rocker vs change out a cam gives you the option of simply swapping out the rockers to see if an appreciable change is made. ie, sometimes a 1.6 on the intake with a 1.5 on the exhaust (or vice-versa) is much more preferable than 1.5s or 1.6s all around. Especially when you get into reduced basecircles the cam profiles do change enough where different rockers can cause a more drastic than expected change.
There is a lot of "art" involved in properly setting up a good valvetrain. You can throw parts at it, but ultimately it comes down to how well all the parts work together.
For example, I am a big fan of a lot of seat pressure. I find it helps stave off the dreaded "high-rpm float" condition. But that also "usually" means you have a heavy spring rate and thus excessive open pressures. I have found finding the right spring for the right pressures and shimming them to a given install height allows you to set it up as you want to in regards to the rockers you run... Ideally, you want the least amount of pressure, both on the seat and open... Even though you can run way more and still have an excellent setup that performs great, you are just giving up "free power" in doing so...
For example, one of my all-time favorite spring choices are the K-Motion K-800s. The springs themselves aren't bad, but the titanium retainers are expensive+++. I have run them on a number of setups and they always perform excellent. None have valve float issues and all have agressive cam lobe profiles. Most are running with 1.5 and 1.6 rockers, except for the one at the top of the post where I am running 1.7s on the exhaust. Key is controlling the amount of lift in all the various situations.
They work, but the geometry on a SBC isn't designed for it... BBC and LSx all have been designed with those types of ratios...
It can be done, and done successfully, but ideall you should go with a different cam...
I personally now only design cams that require 1.5s, you can use 1.6s, but it just pushes up the useable RPM range and causes the roll-over in power up top to be more agressive (ie, you make more power to peak, but the fall off is much sharper). Where-as the falloff with 1.5s is a gradual taper, not a cliff... You can also design with 1.6s in mind, and have teh same mannerisms as 1.5s, just that I prefer not to... Just wanted to clarify I wasn't making a generalization of 1.5s/1.6s or above... just stating that a well designed cam meant for 1.5s will exhibit certain characteristics when run with a higher ratio...
A properly designed cam will only need the rocker it was designed to work with. The LT4 HOT cam was designed to work with 1.6s rockers. They also kept the spring-pressures tight to not cause excessive lifter/cam-lobe pressure.
Then again, the simplicity of being to swap a rocker vs change out a cam gives you the option of simply swapping out the rockers to see if an appreciable change is made. ie, sometimes a 1.6 on the intake with a 1.5 on the exhaust (or vice-versa) is much more preferable than 1.5s or 1.6s all around. Especially when you get into reduced basecircles the cam profiles do change enough where different rockers can cause a more drastic than expected change.
There is a lot of "art" involved in properly setting up a good valvetrain. You can throw parts at it, but ultimately it comes down to how well all the parts work together.
For example, I am a big fan of a lot of seat pressure. I find it helps stave off the dreaded "high-rpm float" condition. But that also "usually" means you have a heavy spring rate and thus excessive open pressures. I have found finding the right spring for the right pressures and shimming them to a given install height allows you to set it up as you want to in regards to the rockers you run... Ideally, you want the least amount of pressure, both on the seat and open... Even though you can run way more and still have an excellent setup that performs great, you are just giving up "free power" in doing so...
For example, one of my all-time favorite spring choices are the K-Motion K-800s. The springs themselves aren't bad, but the titanium retainers are expensive+++. I have run them on a number of setups and they always perform excellent. None have valve float issues and all have agressive cam lobe profiles. Most are running with 1.5 and 1.6 rockers, except for the one at the top of the post where I am running 1.7s on the exhaust. Key is controlling the amount of lift in all the various situations.
07-06-2011, 12:05 PM
#19
If you have the cash to support it with proper pushrods, springs, and studs(preferably shaft mounts, but they are $$$) then there are gains to be had - more then you might expect. Its not like you'll instantly blow up a cammed engine if you run it with something higher then a 1.6 RR. Its harder on the lifters and pushrods, but if you are not cutting corners and buying the correct parts it won't be an issue.