Automotive News, Media & Press - What the???? LEAF OUTSELLING VOLT?

http://www.insideline.com/nissan/leaf/leaf-passes-volt-in-first-half-sales.html

Was this article REAL? Whoa...

And how/why did we miss it till today?

Then again, with 6,620 TOTAL U.S. SALES between the two(over the past 6 months), it's clear people are not running into dealerships to get one. That's less than 1 months sales for a number of vehicles in America, but this is two totally different cars combined... OUCH! Pretty much exactly where I saw this going... so far. They'll keep plugging away, of course. They've got billions invested in these wannabe useful cars.

http://www.insideline.com/nissan/leaf/leaf-passes-volt-in-first-half-sales.html

Was this article REAL? Whoa...

And how/why did we miss it till today?

Then again, with 6,620 TOTAL U.S. SALES between the two(over the past 6 months), it's clear people are not running into dealerships to get one. That's less than 1 months sales for a number of vehicles in America, but this is two totally different cars combined... OUCH! Pretty much exactly where I saw this going... so far. They'll keep plugging away, of course. They've got billions invested in these wannabe useful cars.

good. i hope it stays that way

I don't care who you are, the Volt looks way better than the Leaf..
who wants to drive a leaf anyways??

I guess it's advertised for the blind people.

IMO the numbers are very close especially considering the huge difference in price point.

IMO the numbers are very close especially considering the huge difference in price point.Even close, the numbers look REAL BAD for each company! These cars are selling like... like... Like Americans, by and large, DON'T friggin' want 'em! :nod:

Sales wise: It's a surprise, considering the fact VOLT was leading until June and now it's behind. Nissan must've either finally got their advertising down, or offered some major discount... something. Either way, their combined 6 months sales are abysmal, at best. At this rate, the country will be RID of "electric cars" within a few years. At least from a national sales perspective.

I don't think GM or Nissan has another vehicle in the lineup, save perhaps ZR1(which really goes directly into Corvette sales) and the GT-R(which isn't just high priced, but also hard to get) selling lower numbers even month by month, let alone in 6mo stretches.

Admitedly, I want these cars to succed on a very, very low level. The last thing I want to see in the automotive world is a really popular electric(or any other hybrid, sans solar) vehicle. E85 and ethanol in general is killing engines, electricity prices are going up, wind is unheard of(as a direct power source), nuclear is decades away(because they're scared) and Hydrogen isn't really a hybrid, just an alternative. Electric cars COULD HAVE been the future, If it's to be from here on, it will take decades.

good. i hope it stays that way

Same here, maybe they will wise up and start spending their hybrid research money on making their gas engines get better mileage. Electric is NOT the future, who wants to buy something that can't even go 100 miles without stoping for 7+ hours to recharge it.

Keep in mind that GM sold every VOLT that has been produced.

The Leaf is fugly. The Volt is the smarter option but it's so damn expensive.

Keep in mind that GM sold every VOLT that has been produced.Not so... According to chevy.com, pick "build your own" Volt, then add your Denton zip and check dealers within 150 miles. Within 100(probably w/i 40) miles of Denton, there are 10 to choose from, ranging in price from $41,015 to $44,839. I only checked that market, but I'm of the belief others are available in other markets.

RAY HUFFINES CHEVROLET, INC. =1 VIN: 1G1RD6E44BU103730

FRIENDLY CHEVROLET, LTD. =1 VIN: 1G1RD6E45BU103512

JUPITER CHEVROLET, L.P. =1 VIN: 1G1RD6E42BU103712

EL DORADO MOTORS, INC. =1 VIN: 1G1RD6E44BU103744

VANDERGRIFF CHEVROLET =1 VIN: 1G1RC6E48BU103085

CARLISLE CHEVROLET CADILLAC =1 VIN: 1G1RD6E41BU101918

JAMES WOOD CHEVROLET-OLDSMOBILE =2 VIN: 1G1RD6E43BU103623 and VIN: 1G1RD6E4XBU103747

HOLIDAY CHEVROLET =2 VIN: 1G1RD6E4XBU103201 and VIN: 1G1RD6E45BU102179

Those, according to the website, chevrolet.com

Who cares

Who caresI'd wager... GM cares. :D

I'd wager... GM cares. :D

That was a response from a person who is posting on a high performance based auto website so, what GM or any car company does with its eco friendly cars is not that big of a deal for us since most of us here are classified as more of the "performance enthusiasts" which is actually a minority, when it comes to the markets that most major car companies try to target.

You just created this thread to take another shot at GM since, you have this weird,juvenile,fanboy defensive insecure love with Ford.

:jest:

I actually hope this car does well but I'm the minority...as always.

Zero emission vehicles are pretty much a government mandate aren't they? Government mandate, Government Motors supplied.

In reality a Volt would save me a lot in fuel for daily driving and such but the savings would be way too small of a percentage of the insane purchase cost. 40K could be put in quite a few combinations of vehicles that would do more, be more economical, and be more fun.

That was a response from a person who is posting on a high performance based auto website so, what GM or any car company does with its eco friendly cars is not that big of a deal for us since most of us here are classified as more of the "performance enthusiasts" which is actually a minority, when it comes to the markets that most major car companies try to target.

You just created this thread to take another shot at GM since, you have this weird,juvenile,fanboy defensive insecure love with Ford.Actually, my thoughts are far deeper than yours. I didn't post this to take a shot at GM in the least, but you're a GM balls hugger and still can hardly tell up from down in the scheme of things.

Since you're actually the juvenile here, I'll explain my deeper thoughts. Please try to not screw up with your simpleton ideas in the future. The POINT was, the Volt is being outsold by YET ANOTHER car nobody in their right mind will purchase and THAT surprised me. The part you actually think was a shot against GM is simply that I make no bones about not liking electric cars. Had Dodge, Ford Mercedes Benz, BMW or any other manufacturer been the one offering Volt, I still wouldn't like the electric market because I realize the real problem with that market.

GM cares AND someone who works for them surely sees this website, so GM may get the picture one day.

Here's the rub of it all, which you also don't seem to understand yet. The more they waste of the "Hybrid" or electric market, the harder it will become for those of us who prefer performance gasoline burning cars to actually get them. It won't be a huge problem in my lifetime, but in yours it well could be.

In a nutshell, WE, as a whole, need companies like GM to know that the masses simply do not want their battery powered vehicles and if people here and other places take note, the case can become stronger for auto makers to back away or slow just a bit, from their silliness(prompted by gov't). Only a fool truly thinks these programs are beneficial to anyone except "the powers that be(that includes GM if you're wondering). The buyer is a sucker in almost every case, unless they make their own electricity. Our electricity costs will rise across the nation if cars like these really take hold, but you... you know better what I'm thinking that I know... You're too smart for my input ... you got me! :eyes:

You partly answered the reality here, but being what you are, MISSED the question... We're in the minority, being performance buffs... That's part of the problem and we need to make sure that even "the minority" speaks out about crapola he doesn't like, trying to flood a market he already sees dwindling overall. We should care, because we're the ones going to be stuck in cars we don't like, if we sit back and accept their changes.

GROW UP!

Zero emission vehicles are pretty much a government mandate aren't they? Government mandate, Government Motors supplied.

In reality a Volt would save me a lot in fuel for daily driving and such but the savings would be way too small of a percentage of the insane purchase cost. 40K could be put in quite a few combinations of vehicles that would do more, be more economical, and be more fun.You pretty much nailed it! GM and other companies are building these cars because gov't. has told them to do it or deal with further restrictions elsewhere. Problem is, these companies won't stand up to that gov't., but that's another matter for our purposes. We simply need those companies to know we're not really interested.

Volt would save gasoline for nearly anyone. Of course, it won't save the consumer overall, as you pointed out... The car is quite expensive and in order to cover even the initial hit, one would need to keep it for about 10yrs as their only driver. All said, this car isn't saving a thing beyond gasoline. The owner still has to pay to play though, just in additional ways over normal. :nod:

I'm all for electric cars but the tech has to go a long way yet. Just like the gas engine. Till then I'll stick with my good ole American v8 :)

Let me know when they have a 100% electric truck that can tow a 10,000 pound trailer and go more than 100 yards without needing a recharge.

I wish people would understand the importance of buying from American companies, especially in these times.

Actually, my thoughts are far deeper than yours. I didn't post this to take a shot at GM in the least, but you're a GM balls hugger and still can hardly tell up from down in the scheme of things.

!

I like whatever car Jeremy Clarkson tells me to like

These are niche cars. It is hard ot sell a 40k Volt when you can pic up a car at the same dealership for 20k that still gets 40mpg. 20k buys you a lot of fuel, enough for 160k even at $5/gal. Even at 15k miles per year, you are still into year 10 before the break even happens, and that is not factoring in ANY fuel purchased (for the Volt), electricty costs to charge it for those 10.5 years, potential battery replacement in that time frame, any home chargind station expenses for quicker charging, or opportuninty cost of that 20k invested. The "prestige" of owning a Volt needs to be worth more than all of that to the prospective buyers, which is certianly not the case judging by the sales figures.

Let me know when they have a 100% electric truck that can tow a 10,000 pound trailer and go more than 100 yards without needing a recharge.

hybrid anyone
http://www.hybridsemitruck.com/

^^^ The leaf is not a hybrid... its all electric. And the general populace doesn't use a SEMI to pull a travel trailer. Try again.

^^^ The leaf is not a hybrid... its all electric. And the general populace doesn't use a SEMI to pull a travel trailer. Try again.

ok, would you consider this almost a semi or just a very large Pickup truck?
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2886/3103/32214051163_large.jpg
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4029/
http://www.mack-dump-truck.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Big-Pickup-Trucks.jpg
http://www.mack-dump-truck.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Big-Pickup-Trucks.jpg

http://www.smithelectric.com/
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/sut-specifications.php
http://www.zapworld.com/
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/07/12/beijing-puts-1-060-electric-garbage-trucks-into-service/

Top one no, bottom one yes as its a bastardized semi tractor, neither are hybrids and neither are needed unless you are pulling a 50 foot trailer.

By the way... http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/03/nissan-leaf-still-holding-sales-edge-over-chevy-volt/

Whatever the situation, these "Hybrid" or "Electric" vehicles just aren't selling well. GM says their problem is "extensive retooling" and that begs the question... Why? It's still new, yet they need extensive retooling? Idonno... seems odd, but to have combined sales total with LEAF(4,806) and VOLT(2,870) well under 8,000 units for the year(in America), these cars are anything but a hit... unless it's a crisp uppercut to the chin. By contrast, Chevrolet is selling about 2000 Camaro models per week. On the other hand, NISSAN has sold only a few more 370Z's than it has LEAFs!

Americans clearly don't really want these "choices" and it's a shame GM and NISSAN have dumped so much money into them. Not to be totally outdone, of course, other manufacturers are soon to be on that slow rolling bandwagon.

The biggest problem for lack of sales is sticker shock. The public isn't stupid when it comes to capital cost (purchase price) versus maintenance and upkeep costs (gas, oil changes, etc).

I used a simple (but extreme) example on here a few months ago in another volt thread, assuming costs for a brand new car on both ends:

The Volt has a 16kw-hr battery pack, of which 10kw-hr is used for propulsion to save battery life (to those unfamiliar with batteries, do some research on cycle life versus depth of discharge, the relationship is exponential not linear). This is for the 40-50 mile all electric-rated range which is around 5 miles per kw-hr.

If you use that 10kw-hr every weekday for your whole trip (didn't need to burn gas), and with electricity at ~$0.11/kw-hr, you will spend $1.10 per day to drive that 40-50 miles all EV-only range. A car that gets ~35 mpg will average ~1.5 gallons of gas per day and at $4/gal will cost you $6 per day to drive the same 40-50 miles. Savings of around 5 bucks a day if you stay in all electric mode with the volt.

Take it over a 100k mile analysis (assuming you replace every 100k), all 100k miles on electricity ($0.11/kw-hr and 5 miles per kw-hr again) is 100,000/5*(cost of electricity per kw-hr) which is around 20,000 kw-hr for ~$2,200 total energy cost. The 35mpg car is simply 100,000/35*(cost of gas) which if gas stuck at $4/gal would be around $11,500 total energy cost (~2,860gal of gas). This scenario is about 13k miles per year and 7.5-8 years for replacement.

So every 100k miles you're looking at saving $9,300 in energy costs. Even if electricity sky-rocketed to 0.20/kw-hr and gas stayed the same $4/gal, the total savings would come down to around $5,000 in today's dollars.

Looking at what you can buy a new decently-equipped fuel miser for these days (~$15-18k), the electrics and PHEVs will need to come down in price a LOT for people to jump on.

Even with the federal subsidies the costs just can't pan out. ~$33k for the volt (after fed credit) versus an $18k car like above means you have to drive almost 200k miles to break even. That's if you NEVER burn gas with the volt and assuming no replacement/repair cost for the battery pack. Is anyone on here willing to drive the thing for 10-15 years to see the payback? The general public isn't either.

Same with comparing a $18k car like the cruze to a $25k prius... with gas prices hovering in the $3.50-4.00 range you'd have to drive 100k miles just to break even in terms of fuel costs versus purchase price difference.

IF they ever get these electrics and PHEVs down in the mid 20s sticker price then we'd start to see sales take off. There's a negative-feedback principle for the auto makers though... if everyone starts buying the volt-ish type cars, why produce cars like the cruise, spark, etc at all? Just change them all over to PHEV, preferably with a diesel engine instead of gas.

There we are... Thus, low sales on supposedly better vehicles. The cost is simply too high for anyone remotely good at math.

Unfortunately, that's the truth.

It's nice to be able to use domestic energy instead of imported oil, but for the average joe at present times, why spend $100 more per month on the car payment for a PHEV to save $50 per month on gas over a standard gas sipper? Not gonna happen. After the car is paid off you're still stuck trying to get the payback from the higher purchase price and it'll take a long time to do it.

20 years ago OEMs figured out how to produce SUVs at "affordable" prices, which caused them to become popular and for the sales figures to blast into the stratosphere from ~1997-2005 (albeit partly through the credit binge). Hopefully they will repeat that feat with the new mostly gas-free cars and keep most of the production here in the US. No sense in touting the new technology as beneficial to us if most of the battery packs are produced in china, japan, mexico, etc etc.

The only way to get an affordable electric car in your driveway is to have your beater break down and you buy/install your own motor, motor controller, and home brew battery pack.
http://www.grassrootsev.com/images/parts/automatictransth.jpg

Heh... Nice!

Yep. Youtube has a ton of videos of people doing just that with old 1990s saturns and eclipses. They show you how they did all of it and then drive it around town afterwards. Getting one with a manual transmission is the easiest way... just build a couple of mounts, cut and bolt in a plate, then mount the electric motor(s) to the front of the trans via the plate.

I can't find it right now but there's one where an electrical engineer in chicago built his own electric eclipse. Bought it out of a junk yard with a blown engine for next to nothing (body, etc still in good shape), sold the engine for a few hundred and used it to pay for stuff. I think he said, all done, he had less than 4 grand in the whole setup and could get 30 miles or so on a single charge urban driving. Cool stuff. With good deep-cycle lead acid batteries you should get at least 6-10 years of service before the batteries need replacement.

I wish people would understand the importance of buying from American companies, especially in these times.

Couldn't agree with you more...