Military Hotrod Club - Military Members, I need advice

I am 20 years old and a rising junior with a Criminal Justice Major. I really want to join the military, but I want to also finish my degree realitively quickly. I have checked with several recruiters, but I want to know some true first hand opinions. The branches I am interested in would be:

Army
Marines
Army National Guard
Air Force

Not in any specific order, my ultimate goal would be to finish my degree and become an officer. Which Branch would be the best for a family and for advancement. Also, paying for school is not a deal breaker, but it would be a benefit.

I have checked into the Marines PLC, the Army's Green to Gold Program, and the National Guard. All seem to offer a good program to finish school, but I just wanted to know what you all thought. Also I can't do ROTC as I am a year too late. sorry for writing a novel, I just really need some advice.

Thanks In Advance.

I can't speak for the other branches but I have seen the Amry's Green To Gold program work out really good for soldiers. Depending on what MOS you choose you should have plenty of time to get your degree wraped up. Even throughout a deployment, I've seen some impresive education centers in bagram and kandahar. With a good chain of command you will always be allotted time for your education when it comes down to it, not every soldier is pursuing additional education so the ones that do are usually allowed the time needed.

That sounds good, I am taking that ASVAB on Monday so I should have a better idea by then of what positions I would be able to get. With the Green to Gold, wouldn't I have to enlist for 2 years prior to beginning the program?

I don't think any of the services are going to let you finish your school right out of boot camp. In the AF, expect to complete basic, tech school, and addtional upgrade training before ever getting the chance to complete school. I guess it depends on your idea of "relatively quickly". It also depends on your job and the ops tempo associated with it. You might find yourself deploying all the time with no time for school. I'd highly recommend you finish school first then join. Or look into the guard or reserves. Good Luck!

That is the main reason that I am interested in the National Guard, I would go to basic, AIT, and OCS or Warrant officer school all within 6-8 months and then finish my degree. The only downside is that I think I will be wishing I had gone active duty and then I would have to wait 6 years to try to change over. As a warrant officer I know I would be much closer to active duty and working way more than one weekend a month. So that may be my best bet.

If you go Guard, the only amount of time you'd have to wait to go Active duty is the amount of time it takes for your unit to release you. And why would you be working closer to Active duty as a warrant officer? I'm assuming you're looking at branching in aviation with that talk.

You are correct, if I go warrant officer it'll be for aviation. How often would I be working in that case?

When I was enlisting the Marines offered to pay my way thru college then put me thru OCS and upon completion be commissioned as a FIRST Lieutenant. All because I had a high ASVAB score. I was in a hurry to get to war (graduated HS in '02) so I passed on th officer stuff. If you get a high ASVAB score and have high SAT or ACT scores, thats what the recruiters use to send ppl to the officer program. I always say if you're gonna GO, go all out! So I'm obviously biased to the Corps. But you WILL deploy frequently and it's not the "kindest" branch. ...But you DO get to wear those AWESOME Dress Blues! 8-D

I've checked into the Marines PLC program and have been told that I qualify, I'm just trying to decide if that is the way I want to go. Basically I would finish school, go through OCS next summer and be a 2nd Lt upon graduation.

You are correct, if I go warrant officer it'll be for aviation. How often would I be working in that case?

If you are looking to go WO and fly for the army then find yourself a recruiter thats worth a shit and they can get you on track for what we call, "High-School-To-Flight-School". Keep in mind that the Warrant Officer Candidate School(WOC) and Flight School take up about 2 yrs of your life. But they are both at the same post so it's considered a PCS move. There's a packet that you'll need to submit for both schools and if accepted you will simply ship out to basic training and then report to Ft. Rucker, "Mother Rucker". But be warned that there is this AWESOME helicopter known as the CH-47D/F Chinook and if you are lucky enough to ever get near one let alone fly on one you will be hooked for life. This Bad Ass acft is powered by two Power Turbine engines each rated at around 5069 SHP and can haul a max gross weight of 50k. If you like speed, well this thing will get up to 170 knots easy before she starts to shake and complain. The only reason the Army has other helicopters is because those who are unworthy of the Chinook have to have a way to get around. All kidding aside, Army aviation is a group unlike most others, you might find yourself hooked on flying. There's a few Army pilots on this forum that should be able to steer you in the right direction, I'm just a Flight Engineer, I fix not fly. Once you finish WOC and Flight School you'll report to your unit and that's where you really learn to fly, they teach you enough to graduate in Flight School but there's a lot more you'll have to master before they can sign you off as an RL1 line pilot. So it will be awhile before you can dedicate some serious time to your education. But eventually you will find that a RL1 Warrant officer has ass loads of time on thier hands, unless you're deployed, but thats another animal.

Wow. That sounds really good. The national guard recruiter never said anything about that, I have an appointment with both an Army and Air Force recruiter next week. I'll be sure to ask the Army recruiter about it.

You are correct, if I go warrant officer it'll be for aviation. How often would I be working in that case?

In the guard, you'd be doing more than one weekend a month and two weeks a year, but you'd also be getting paid for it, lol. I don't know the actual hours, but it's nothing too crazy. It's just to ensure you maintain your flight status. Good route too, btw. I'm a grunt and planning on going the flight route one of these days if I decide to stay in. That's the way to live!

After talking to some people today I have narrowed it down to either warrant officer in the guard or SERE instructor for the Air Force. Talk about a tough decision.

SERE Instructor? I'm curious as to what someone told you about how you can just jump into that sort of job. For starters are you at least a level 2 combatives instructor? Do you have any experience in the Spec Ops field? Have you ever taken and passed any sort of swim test? What did this recruiter tell you? Has any one warned you yet about recruiters? They can be like used car salesmen, except they sell souls. They say that if you can sell a soul you can sell anything, this is what an old recruiter friend of mine once told me. Always go and talk with at least a few different recruiters from each branch of service you are interested in. Don't give them to uch info and don't worry about anything you may have signed, you can back out anytime you want, unless of course you were sworn in by a commisioned officer, then your screwed dude.

I talked to an AF advisor through their online chat and from what he said all I have to do is go through basic, tech school, and SERE school. After that I go through a 6 month instructor school and can become an instructor after finishing. I haven't signed anything or anything like that. Just talking to a few different people.

See if you can get ahold of an actual SERE instructor and ask them what it took to get where they are now. You could ask your recruiter to do so but then his tone will probably change up. Unless the Airforce has a specific MOS that is SERE Instructor you will go through basic, then tech school for whatever MOS you sign up for and then if you have SERE school in your enlistment contract you will go through. If not you will report to your assigned unit and have to put in for the school and if your unit and DOD approves you will get to go. Then putting for SERE instructor course will probably be same deal, by then you will have alost been through your first enlistment. None of this is fact, more of a realistic scenario, I've seen soldiers come through with high hopes and dreams and promises from thier recruiter and get a dose of reality. Your recruiter may seem like a nice guy who's looking out for you but sadly thats not always the case, go over everything with a fine toothed comb, even the fine print. I only say this because once you leave for basic training that recruiter no longer has anything to do with you.

From what can gather from the AF website, SERE is a specific mos. I may spoken wrong when I said instructor. I would be a "specialist". But from what I can gather it seems to be different than the other branches.

The AF has a specific AFSC/MOS for SERE instructors. But you were talking about flying earlier. We definitely need them. If your the outdoorsman type, then you'd probably love it. But it's a big difference than being an operational flyer. They are more in the support role. I learned a lot of cool crap from them, but in the end, I'd take the flying over the teaching how to skin a rabbit, eat bugs, buildf ires, tie knots, ..,etc. I'd get a little more info on AF SERE before you ditch the WO flyer idea.

The thing that I like about the AF more is they seem to take care if the family more, the benefits are better, and I feel like I would get more "military experience". The pros to the NG however are that I could choose where I live, fly, I would also be deployed more frequently which I wouldn't necessarily mind. One more thing about the AF is they will pay 100% of my tuition whereas te NG only pays a portion.

As a Marine grunt I can honestly say, go air force. Better quality of life.

But as rob said get more info on SERE because a LOT of MOS's that sound cool are only open to people that have qualified out of other MOS's. In the Marines we have Recon which a lot of young guns think you can just jump right into from boot which isn't true. Same with EOD and some other specialty jobs in our Branch.

I'd also say be careful trying to get aviation out of the Army or Airforce. They take on a higher volume of officers and aviation is a top ticket item. Last I remember the Marines were about the only force that had guaranteed flight placement. So be sure you have everything in writing before you commit, otherwise you may be a chow hall butterball (2nd Lt).

Also as rob said, your recruiter probably has not been forth coming with you. Most guys use recruiting duty because you get promoted very quickly and because quantity tends to matter more than quality so as long as you sign on the dotted line they get the credit and look better. So you are doing good getting opinions from those who've served. First and foremost however.... GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!

To many people get promised everything from bonuses to meritorious e-2 to other nonsense and because it wasn't in writing when they get to boot they get laughed at and told the recruiter lied to them.

I'd also suggest finishing school. You never know what type of unit you'll be with and while some will work with you, I've had as many 1st Sgt's who (and somewhat rightly so) put the training over any after hours learning.

Transferring reserves to active is also a LOT of red-tape. You can sometimes find a good recruiter to help, but your reserve admin are basically lame ducks in a lot of cases and reserve battalions are notoriously slow.

There is a lot of other things I can't think of at the moment but if you've got questions I've done enough to know the ropes from both the active and reserves sides.

Thanks for all of the info. That is what I'm worried about with trying To go aviation, if I went that route I would want to make sure it was gauranteed. Also as far as the AF goes, I have calls in to 4 different recruiters and I log into the live chat to speak with a different person everyday. I'm hoping by doing this I can take everything that try all say and find the truth in it somewhere. As far as finishing my education, would it be better to keep racking up student loans or to join and wait a few years and have it all paid for?

If you get into WOCS, then it is guaranteed as long as you study, study, and don't fuck up. WO FTW. In the Guard you have the privilege of still being a civilian. No other branch can offer that, no matter how civilianized the Air Force is, lol.

And so it's known, I'm a grunt in the Army. Active duty, with a decent amount of friends that are pilots. Like the guy (that I'm assuming is a Chief) was saying, talk to some pilots, and try to talk to some SERE instructors. The pay and experience along as a pilot FAR outweighs joining the Air Force, lol.

How often would I be flying as a WC though? I just don't want to get in a situation where I would only be flying a couple times a month. I would much rather have a full time job or at least near full time.

Something else to consider if you wish to go pilot but want the GI Bill to pay for the rest of schooling is to go in under an air crew MOS. These are the enlisted guys that often man the on board weapon systems like the 240g machine gun or the mk-19 grenade launcher and maintain the crew/cargo areas on helo's. This will not only get you in the air but will also get you a lot of time with the Officers which will help a lot for getting the rest of your education finished and getting into an officer candidate school.

It is never a bad thing being on friendly terms with a group of Officers. It can go a LONG way in helping you out.

Just a thought if you decide to go the enlisted route.

Right now I am leaning more roasted the enlisted route because I would be able to choose what I want to do. Also if I decide to go AF officer later on down the road it is much more likely ill be given a shot at OTS if I am enlisted rather than a civilian. Now I just need to decide what MOS I would like beside SERE. I will check into the air crew. Are there any other MOS your would recommend?

That was supposed to say "towards" the enlisted route. Stupid iPhone and it's autocorrect.

Man,there's a world of difference between AF SERE and flying. As an AF SERE, your pretty much in a support role. If your the outdoorsman type, then you'll probably love it. You spend most of your time teaching aircrew how to survive. You know, skin rabbits, eat bugs, cammo, building fires, evading,...,etc. But when your flying, your actually doing the mission. Good Luck!

What 99SSJarhead said about the enlisted crewmembers is correct, as a Flight Engineer(FE), Crewchief(CE), or even Door Gunner you will learn a lot about the acft and get a feel for flying. I know a lot of fellow crewmembers that easily transition to WO and flying, some even end up flying the acft they crewed on. As a FE/CE you start out as a mechanic for either a Blackhawk or Chinook helicopter, if you're worth a shit you will get picked up by one of the flight companies and start training as a CE. You're MOS never changes, you'll always be a mechanic, but you'll simply be an on board mechanic with additional in flight duties. In combat you'll also man a M240H light machine gun, that's where the fun starts. You will serve with some of the best pilots and soldiers out there. Also you'll be able to get letters of recommendation from senior pilots and this will help out a lot when it comes to getting picked for WOC/Flight school. But even as a mechanic you can still put your packet in and get picked up, just keep a clean record and you'll be in like flynn. IMO ex mechanics make great pilots especially if you wind up flying the acft you used to work on. The only problem is putting down the wrench, but I've always seen these type pilots excell more often than not, and it's always nice having an extra mechanic around. Whatever you decide to do, make sure it's something that you really like, nothing worse than being stuck in a job that you hate.

The M240 is a MEDIUM machine gun. The M249 SAW is light and the M2 and MK19s are considered heavy. I'd love to be a door gunner. I love machine guns and the thrill of combat! About the only Airforce job that interested me is being a cannoneer on the AC-130! I'm a Marine Cannoneer by trade so I'd fit right in. Damn recruiter told me I'd lose me E-5 guaranteed. Fuck that. I worked damn hard to get Sergeant in my 4 years, I'm not gonna give it up to do a job I've done before. I'm gonna be talking with a Guard recruiter tomorrow...about a CWO job they have open locally. ;-) I'll post when I know more...that's why I've been following this thread.

[QUOTE=Swiat34;15191885]The M240 is a MEDIUM machine gun. The M249 SAW is light and the M2 and MK19s are considered heavy. QUOTE]

This is correct, not sure why I wrote light machine gun. For some reason I think they used to classify it as such. I started out as an 11B way back when and was both a SAW gunner and M240B Gun Team Leader, you would think I would know the difference:eyes:. Gotta stay in the books to stay sharp. It sucks that they drop you a grade to reclass but realisticly it wouldn't take long to get it back. Especially if you were able to make SGT in 4 years. I gave up going to the promotion board so I could reclass becuase I was told the same by my retention NCO. But soon after AIT and reporting to my new unit I was right on track for promotion so in the end I didn't regret anything,(aside for not racking up the correspondence courses). Oh and any job on an AC130 would be kick ass!!!

Well, I am going to take the ASVAB in a few hours and I'll let tall know how it goes web I get the scores tomorrow. Still trying to make a decision. Talked to another AF recruiter today and she also said that if I can pass the course ad all of the physicals, SERE is gauranteed. She also said that because it is considered special tactics they are always looking for people.

Be prepared to spend a LOT of time in the field with SERE. From your OP, wanting something family friendly I'd stick towards the airwing side of things.

If it is just you for the time being though and you decide to move away from the flight school idea, yeah go SERE, it's be a friggen blast if you can tough it.

I know I would be away from
alot, but would it be much more different than being a pilot who flies 10-15 day missions once a month? I definitely want to keep family in mind, but at the same time my girl friend (over 4 years) is completely supportive of what I want to do.

I know I would be away from
alot, but would it be much more different than being a pilot who flies 10-15 day missions once a month?

Maybe 10-15 days a month while you are home in garrison conducting itraining flights. Of course you'll fly way more than that while deployed but it doesnt matter because you're not home anyways. SERE instructor sounds like a cool job too, and what you train soldiers for will most likely save thier life if they ever have to apply it.

Wow, SERE is special tactics. News to me! Now TACP, Combat Controller, PJ, Combat Wx, EOD even; those are what I would consider special tactics, but thats definitely stepping it up a notch or two! Good Luck with your decision.

Well, I am dine with the ASVAB, now just waiting on scores. Hopefully they'll be ready tomorrow morning. As of now, I am definitely leaning more towards the AF side. SERE just sounds like it would be a great job and something I could definitely have fun doing.

Got my scores in, I got a 90 on the ASVAB with a GT score of 124. The recruiter still has all of my line scores and I'm working today so i haven't had a chance to get them yet. Hopefully that will be good enough to get me into either branch.

An asvab of 90 will get you into most anything so you should be good. Now you just have to decide between enlisting airwing eventually going officer/pilot or enlisting SERE and deciding to ride it out enlisted or not.

For long term, I'd suggest the airwing/officer route. You'll learn more skills that transfer into the real world job market for pretty lucrative careers, especially if you go in mechanic and OCS into pilot.

SERE was great to go through, but to have to do constant cycles of it with a new group of trainees, especially as a junior enlisted. I just don't know. It'd get old and tiring really fast. I've been a PFC/LCpl trying to get Staff NCO's and Officers to follow directions. It ain't always fun and can be down right grueling at times.

If possible I'd see if the AF recruiter can get you in touch with some SERE instructors before committing to that route.

I just talked to the AF recruiter and they are actually doing a SERE training tomorrow. I'm going to go up there and watch them and ask some questions. Afterwards I'm going back to the recruiters office for a meeting about the more in depth info about the program. U could definitely see how it could possibly get old, but at the same time I think it could stay pretty fun since it would be with different people every couple of weeks.

Good to go...

I wish I had half your intelligence when I went in. I just walked into the recruiters office "I want to be a Marine!" Take this test, sign here, turn your head and cough, get on bus to Parris Island.

Keep this level of scrutiny when you get in and you'll be served very well in the long run.

It could either help me or hurt me if I ask too many questions. Haha. Have you hears of a position called "aircraft loadmaster?" my girlfriends brother (pilot) wanted me to ask.

Yeah, these guys are more or less responsible for how packs/cargo are loaded and situated. You see them more around c130's and larger aircraft (as well as Chinooks and cargo oriented helo's) which require gear to be evenly distributed for weight and size purposes.

Not a bad job but can be pretty hectic during loading and unloading periods.

Ok, that's why he was saying. He tolde to ask because of the pay, he said with all of the hazard, separation, flight, etc pay it adds up really quickly. Plus it would get me in well with some of the other pilots if I decide to become an officer.

very true, but more or less with any air crew position you are looking at the same.

Ok, at the point I have decided on the Air Force. I just need to be 110% sure what I want to do before I sign anything. Hopefully talking to the recruiter will help tomorrow.

Good luck and have fun. The service is only as bad as you let it be.

Thanks, I appreciate it. And thanks for all the advice y'all have given me for the past few days.

Good job on the ASVAB Pinky! I scored an 89 with a GT of 135, so you and I aren't all much different!
Anyway I met with my recruiter and there should be a squadron of Apaches moving here soon! Until then, theres nearby positions open in Tanks and in an infantry unit for a sniper!! I'm leaning 1 year contract to sniper and go CWO to be a WSO (said as "wiso") Weapons systems officer! So tomorrow I go to talk to the tanks unit and the grunts to see what I can get into!!

That sounds great man. Good luck. Hopefully I'll have that much of a plan by the time I get finished with my meeting tomorrow. I've been researching and asking everyone for advice, so hopefully it'll pay off.

Alright guys, I have decided to go air crew. I want to do something on a plane that way I hopefully have a shot at pilot when I finish my degree. I'm looking into loadmaster, aerial gunner, and inflight refuel. Any other suggestions that I am overlooking?

Flight Engineer

I think an AF Flight Engineer is pretty much the same as a Loadmaster. Congrats on ASVAB, hope you get what you want in your enlistment contract. For what it's worth, I've seen C-17 and C-5 crewdogs doing thier homework throughout flights.

The only downside to flight engineer is that I can't start off in the career. You have to be an e4 with 4 years experience in a feeder career to get that job.

Well I just locked in my MOS yesterday: I'll becan avionics technician working on the black boxes and advanced displays. 33 week school! I met the unit and they're all pretty cool! I let the 1st Sgt and CWO know that my intentions are to go to the CWO side to fly. Since I'm a 1 year contract, I'll wait and see if the Apaches move in and if so, I'll be diving for that Warrant Officer! Why not look into those advanced electronics jobs? We all know how important the black boxes are and the training opens careers with major airlines for 6-digit salaries..

The only downside to flight engineer is that I can't start off in the career. You have to be an e4 with 4 years experience in a feeder career to get that job.

How about Battle Manager or Airborne linguist?

Checked in to Airborne Linguist, but I don't think that I want to do that. I've narrowed it down now to the three that I mentioned before. I figure if I only put those 3 down, I may have to wait a bit longer before I can leave, but it should be worth it considering no matter what I'll have one of the few that I wanted. Also, I am going to finish this semester out so I will only have 40 credits left until I get my degree, which won't have me leaving for basic until around January. I'm really excited and can't wait to go. Now I just have to finish all of the application process and go to MEPS for my physical.

Couple things I don't think you've mentioned yet.

First have you looked into whether you have enough college credits to start at an e-2 or e-3 pay grade? Starting above the bell curve will help in advancing to higher ranks in the long run instead of having to chase the next ranks time in grade requirements. Easily save yourself at least a year and a half to 2 years of chasing the lower ranks.

I'm not sure about the AF but you might also find out if college credits help towards advancement. In the Marines we still use a point based system and a common practice is to apply only the amount of credit hours needed to max out the points for that rank and save the rest for the next rank. I'm just not certain the AF runs a similar mentality. It may just be having the college looks better but you still have to chase time in grade. Some of the AF guys will know more.

As for jobs, I like shooting things so I'd go gunner, but then that is why I joined the Corps. Do you have an idea of what you want to fly? Fixed wing, rotary? Large aircraft like the c5 or nimble helo's like the black hawk?

I should have mentioned that earlier, I will have enough college credit going in to enter as an E-3. Gunner would be fun, but in reality any of the three will get me into the air so I really don't mind where I get put. Thats the downside to the AF, I can't pick exactly what I want going in, they will look at my list of 3-8 careers and which ever comes open first I get. As far as once I finish my degree, if I can get a chance at a Pilot slot I won't be picky about what I fly, I'll take what I can get at this point.

I noticed you didn't list the Navy. Well I happen to be in the Navy, enlisted though, not officer. And I rather like the easy flow of life. It's still the military and lots of bullshit you have to go through. But we definitely have it easier than our Marine counterparts, their life is much more stressful, they are held to much higher standards.

From what I have heard, the Airforce has the best standard of living. The Navy is trying to downsize, so don't go there. I would never go Army or Marines, on account of I don't want to mess with guns, or have to be put in a position where I have to learn how to kill and then do it. It's a very remote chance of getting gun training AND putting it to use while in the Navy.

All branches offer TA (tuition assistance) which will pay for up to $250 per credit hour of any school that accepts TA, which is like 90% of all state schools, and some private ones. You have to pay for the books though, and if you fail the class you have to pay for the class also.

Once you get out of the service you can get the Post 9/11 GI bill, which will pay for 4 years of schooling, all extra costs, books, and give you E-5 BAH (Bachelor Housing Allowance) depends on the area, but is usually between $900 and $1700 a month. 4 free years of college once you get out.

BTW, I am an air traffic controller, so I talk to the pilots, tell them where to go, what to do etc. Get to talk to pilots through my headset on a daily basis. It's the perfect job, you get to sit down all day, you're isolated usually, just 5 or 6 people in a tower or radar room.

Plus if you ever decide to get out, Air Traffic Controllers make good money in the civilian world!

The Airforce won't let you pick your rate? When I enlisted in the Navy they gave me 5 jobs they thought I would be good at, based on my ASVAB scores. I only remember 3, IT (Information Technician) CT (Cryptographer) or AC (Air Traffic Control). I wanted AC, so I picked it and got it.

I thought about Air Traffic Control, could you fill me a in a little bit more on what you have to do day to day? I've heard it is very stressful, but I would like to hear from someone that actually does it every day rather than what a pilot or a recruiter tells me.

I wish it worked that way. Basically from what the recruiter said, after I do my physical and all of that at MEPS, I will talk to a "career counselor" and I will list up to 8 jobs that I would be happy with. Out of those 8, they check the new job openings on the 15th of every month and which ever happens to open first, I will get.

The "very stressful" part of Air Traffic Control is a HUGE misconception. If you are working at a very large and very busy airport, for example, O'Hare, Midway, Atlanta, NYC, Heathrow, Reagan National, then yes, it can be very stressful.

I work at the BUSIEST Naval Air Station in the entire Navy, and it is not that bad. We have several different controllers, they all work different positions depending on what phase of flight the pilot is in. There is a controller who reads the clearances (direction where he's going, pertinent information, etc) there is a controller who directs him around the airfield to the runways, etc. There is a controller who launches him from the runway, there is a controller who pilots talk to when they come in to land, or if they want to circle the runway and do practice "touch and go's", and finally there is a controller who sits the supervisor position, oversees all of the ones I listed before.

So there is a LOT of different phases of flight, but it's broken up between 6 controllers, so that no one controller has too much work to do. I love my job, it's very relaxed, very easy. I tell people, I sit and talk to planes all day, that's the jist of it.

What I explained above is the tower controllers, there is also radar. Radar is just as easy, maybe easier. Approach radar control, you see dozens of different planes flying through your air space, you have to turn them so they don't intercept or hit each other, tell them to climb or descend, etc. Final control, in this one you guide a plane down to the runway, usually when it's too cloudy out for him to see, so you will tell him turn a couple degrees left or right, so he will intercept the runway when he comes out of the clouds.

That's the jist of it, hope it helps shed new light on air traffic control

Let's not forget, air traffic control is a very profitable job in the civilian sector. The average income is between $90,000 and $110,000 per year. The highest paid controllers make $200,000 a year, and the lowest paid controllers make $40,000 a year. Either way, you're going to be doing alright.

That doesn't seem like it would be too bad then. I may have to check into that. Would you be deployed very often? I have no problem being deployed, and honestly wouldn't mind the travel I would have as an air crew member, but I was just curious as to what your deployment schedule has looked like. Plus that money after wards on the civillian side sounds great! Imagine putting 20 years in and then making that on top of the retirement. haha.

AF doesn't use a point system for promotion, its time-in-grade/time-in-service for E-1 through E-4 and testing + TIG/TIS for E-5 on up (+ a board for E-8 and E-9). I'm pretty sure it's still 15+ semester hours to go in as an E-2, and 30+ to go in as an E-3. If you go in as an E-1 it's 36 months until you put on E-4, if you go in as an E-3 it's 28 months until you put on E-4.

The deployment for an AC in the Navy is 60% shore, 40% sea. We get deployed to air craft carriers or amphib ships (which carry helicopters). Occasionally they will call on an AC to go I.A. Go over seas somewhere and usually serve with the Army or Marines. One guy I knew went to Cuba, or Haiti, forget which, he was a truck driver. Another guy went over to Afghanistan for a year, he was a guard. I.A. deployments are only 1 year.

Most guys in the AC rate do 3 years at sea, then 4-5 years shore. And then rotate back, 3 years at sea, 4-5 more at shore. When you go to a carrier you will go all over the world. Most guys I know who have been to a ship, in 3 years they visited at least 15 countries.

Wow, thats pretty cool. The travel is one of the main things I like about being part of an air crew. I've started working on my Application and getting all of my things such as medical recrods together so I can take them all to the recruiter on Monday. As far as MEPS goes, I think the 3 choices I am going to list will be in the following order:

1. Loadmaster
2. In-flight refueling
3. Air Traffic Control

From what the recruiter was saying, I should have no issue landing one of these three currently. In all honesty though, I would really prefer Loadmaster or Refueling because of the amount of travel I could do.

Yeah, AC in the air force wouldn't be nearly as cool as the Navy as far as travel would be concerned. You'd more often just find yourself on a random base for several years at a time with the occasional deployment thrown in for good measure.

That is kind of what I was figuring. I was really hung up between Aerial gunner and ATC, but I am really just hoping that I get one of the first two options. Either that or find one more that would allow me to be on the plane, that I wouldn't mind doing.

Maybe something like Airborne Battle Management or ISR?

99SSJarhead is right. I'm not sure how much traveling you'd do with load master and refueler. But I can tell you, that being in the Navy we probably travel more than most people do in most other jobs in the military, period. Deployments (or cruises) last 6-7 months, and you will visit a multitude of countries. So if travel is what you want to do, ATC in the airforce probably wouldn't cut it for you.

I like being an Air Traffic Controller because of the lack of manual labor. It's more cognitive, learning the "air traffic control language", and using your head to see things before they happen. Sequencing air craft in a pattern, notifying them of flight conditions, etc. All the hard sweaty labor is done by people in other jobs, of course they are respected more because of that. Most people are jealous of AC's, we always stay inside in the nice cool Air conditioning.

With loadmaster especially, I know I would travel a good bit. As far as refueler, I would still travel quite a bit, but im not sure in comparison to loadmaster. ATC seems like a great job however, and would be highly beneficial once I get out. I plan on putting my 20 in and retiring, so it would be great to make that retirement plus salary from a civillian ATC.

That would be an excellent plan. Unfortunately, I don't like the military all that much. It was always my plan to use the military as a stepping stone to where I want to be in life. Get the free job training, and get paid at the same time to use a skill in the civilian world earning much better money. I've been in 2 years, have a 5 year contract. Have no plans of reenlisting once my 5 years is up.

Some people do go your route though. At 20 years you can retire with 50% of your base income. Most people at 20 years are E-7 or E-8, so they make right around $4,000-$4,500 a month, half that and there is your retirement. My division officer, a lieutenant (O-3) makes around $6,500 a month and has been in for 17 years. So if he retires at 20 (I doubt he will), he'll get a nice pay check of over $3,000 a month. Don't forget, if you do retire from the military you get FULL health and medical benefits for life. And health insurance is VERY expensive.

That is what I am thinking. I think it would really be worth it, plus after a few years I plan on finishing my degree (40 credits left) and hopefully getting into OTS. I would really like to become a Pilot and keep flying for the AF. Of course that is if everything goes to plan, which rarely happens, so having an enlisted career that I like is really important because I might be retiring from there.

I don't know much about the enlisted to officer programs. But I know my Division Officer, who is an O-3 E Lieutenant right now, he came in as an E-1. Worked his way up to Chief (E-7) in a matter or 8 or 9 years, then went LDO (Limited Duty Officer). He will never be a pilot, he's just in charge of everyone at the ATC building. Being an officer and a formerly enlisted member means you get a huge pay advantage. An O-3 makes about $4,800 a month. An O-3 E makes about $6,500 a month. Of course, he's been in for 17 years also.

I really wanted to go in Enlisted mainly because I don't want to just walk in and go to OTS. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it would give me an advantage starting as Enlisted and then eventually working my way up to being an Officer. Plus as an Officer, I think it will be a little easier to instruct people on what to do if I have already been in their shoes and have done what they are doing.

I really wanted to go in Enlisted mainly because I don't want to just walk in and go to OTS. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it would give me an advantage starting as Enlisted and then eventually working my way up to being an Officer. Plus as an Officer, I think it will be a little easier to instruct people on what to do if I have already been in their shoes and have done what they are doing.

I like your style of thinking. That's exactly what makes a good formerly enlisted officer. They were in our shoes once, they were enlisted, they were E-1 once! They had to work their way up, so they can connect with their workers a lot better than an officer who came in commissioned would. These officers get a lot of things handed to them. 22 year olds driving BMW, Mercedes, new Camaro, etc,all sorts of brand new muscle cars and sports car.

Working your way up there, you will be much more respected for it.

That is what I am hoping for. I know going in being Enlisted isn't going to be the greatest thing in the world, but as you said hopefully I'll be a better Officer because of it. The only steps I have left to get in are turning in the application (Monday), Getting through MEPS, and then signing the contract. I just really hope one of the positions I want is open fairly soon that way I can go ahead and go.

These officers get a lot of things handed to them. 22 year olds driving BMW, Mercedes, new Camaro, etc,all sorts of brand new muscle cars and sports car.

Working your way up there, you will be much more respected for it.

ha haa... it is a bit sickening isn't it driving around base and seeing all those blue stickered new cars. Seriously, if you want to see the greatest car shows, just drive around a military base parking lot.

I've noticed that when I go to visit my girlfriends brother. It seems like especially on the Air Force Bases, that new muscle cars are the things to have.

It depends. I had to wait 9 months for my job to open up.

Well, I have already told the recruiter that I don't want to leave until January, but if I wind up waiting past May I may get into some crap with the school, because I have to be on Military Orders in order to defer my scholarships and stuff. I would really hate to finish my spring semester, because then I would only have like 25 credits left to get my degree. but since my loans and scholarships are already in for this coming semester, I have to finish it.... I'm really not in the best spot right now.

Also, I have another question. My girlfriend and I have been together for over 4 years now and are definitely going to get married one day. My question is should we do it before Basic or after? I know that she will benefit from it and so will I in the form of pay, but I was just curious what some of you thought, because i'm sure some of y'all have been in my shoes on this one.

Toss up on the marriage thing.

If you get married before basic you will get BAH on top of basic pay which is nice (especially after everyone else has half what they earned taken out for uniforms and other items needed for training).

You will however have to show that she is able to care for herself without your financial help as I am not sure if the AF allows you to set up a means of getting money to her or not.

There is also the trust issue. You are young and dumb (no offense) in love and personally in that situation, I wouldn't want a woman with open access to a bank account full of money with no oversight.

Personally I would wait till after. Yeah you lose the BAH in the beginning, but you are also going to be away from her for several months. This will be a good time for the both of you to determine if you are able to handle the separations. I know a LOT of guys whose girls swore up and down they could handle it, only to have them hook up with Jodie a month, 2 months down the line. If she can't deal with the few months of basic and MOS training, she won't be able to handle you traveling for missions or deployed.

As far as trusting her, I really don't have any worries, because she is in Pharmacy School now and still lives with her family. I would still have seperate bank accounts, and she can support her self without me being there now for the most part. But it is just a big decision and I really need to make sure it's what we should do. But the BAH sure would be nice. haha.

Well as I said, basic is a good way to see if she can handle being apart for long stretches and personally I think it is more fair to her to give her the opportunity instead of rushing a marriage for the benefits, then she finds out she can't handle the life style.

Also divorce in the military can bite you in the arse, especially if she decides to be a bitch about it.

Ok, so if I go through basic and then tech school, when I get stationed somewhere and then Marry her, would the AF move me out of an apartment and into base housing and still cover all of her costs to move in with me? One of my main concerns is if I get stationed somewhere across the country or around the world (that would still be elgible for her to move with me) if she would be covered.

Get one document first: prenuptual agreement. Spelling might be wrong but I recommend it for any military guy that gets hitched. You will be surprised how many women cheat, empty the account and leave a guy when he's got one month of deployment left. They do it to get all that extra deployment pay built up. And don't think they get the idea themselves, those military women bond and talk and there's LOTS of drama...potentially. I'm not trying to scare you out of marriage, not a all. But protect yourself. This isn't the 1700s, this is 2011...there is no such thing as true trust anymore.

The good news is that while I'll be in Basic and Tech school she will be living with my family, so they should keep an eye on her.. haha. but honestly, I've been with her for over 4 years and she comes from a Military family (Dad, Brother, and Cousins), so I really think she knows what she is getting in to.

Normally you don't get BAH unless you are E-4 or above, this coming from Navy experience, I assume the Airforce is similar. But if you are E-3 or below, you will get BAH if you have a dependent, I.E. a wife, a child, or a brother or sister whose legal guardian you have become. BAH differs depending on the area, I'm in Mississippi, poorest state in the nation. E-4 BAH here is roughly $750 a month. Chicago it's almost $1,700 a month. San Diego is about $1,800 a month. Norfolk Virginia is right around $1,200. Differs from place to place.

You should get BAH and BAS no matter what grade you are. It shouldn't matter if you marry before or after you enlist. The military will help with the move but it's up to you if you want to do it yourself and get payed for it or let DOD contracted movers do it. They are getting better about it too. I'm currently in the middle of moving to AL and this time around the Army is doing ten times better with the packing and personal contact throughout the process adn even hired a company to come and disassemble my pool table and crate it. For all the hardships involved with this job, it has some perks you just can't beat.

If you get married before basic you will get BAH on top of basic pay which is nice (especially after everyone else has half what they earned taken out for uniforms and other items needed for training).

Unless it changed recently, AF doesn't take uniforms or gear out of your pay, that's issued (they pick up the tab).

Must be nice. When I went through boot at Parris island, most guys came out of 13 weeks with barely a months paycheck because of all the things they deduct from your pay.

Must be nice. When I went through boot at Parris island, most guys came out of 13 weeks with barely a months paycheck because of all the things they deduct from your pay.

My buddy that went through Parris Island said the same thing. He did 4 years as an 0311 then went AF reserve.

You should get BAH and BAS no matter what grade you are. It shouldn't matter if you marry before or after you enlist. The military will help with the move but it's up to you if you want to do it yourself and get payed for it or let DOD contracted movers do it. They are getting better about it too. I'm currently in the middle of moving to AL and this time around the Army is doing ten times better with the packing and personal contact throughout the process adn even hired a company to come and disassemble my pool table and crate it. For all the hardships involved with this job, it has some perks you just can't beat.

Not sure what branch you're in. But I can tell you in the Navy, you get BAS once you are no longer in bootcamp or A-school (tech school). That's your food allowance, $323 a month. I get $7 in BAH a month, but I still live in the barracks. In the Navy you don't get BAH unless you are married, over E-4, or have a dependent I.E. a child, or someone whose legal guardian you are. There are a few bases in the fleet where you get BAH as an E-3 or below, but those are few and far between.

I think every other branch issues you're uniforms. I can also concur that the Marine Corps makes you pay for em.

The Marines are a department of the Navy, and I can confirm that I lost about $800 through my two months of bootcamp for having to buy uniforms. Of course every year to the day after you joined you get a uniform allowance, it's small, but adds up with the years you have been in.

Not sure what branch you're in. But I can tell you in the Navy, you get BAS once you are no longer in bootcamp or A-school (tech school). That's your food allowance, $323 a month. I get $7 in BAH a month, but I still live in the barracks. In the Navy you don't get BAH unless you are married, over E-4, or have a dependent I.E. a child, or someone whose legal guardian you are. There are a few bases in the fleet where you get BAH as an E-3 or below, but those are few and far between.

I think ya'll are both misreading each other.

To clarify if you are married you will get BAH from the start of boot onwards. If you are single you will only get BAH if you live off base or are assigned to a base that has no barracks or on base living (you also get a stipend if there is no on base chow hall). E4 is generally the earliest rank that most branches will allow enlisted personnel the choice of moving out of the barracks and into town. Some units may make exceptions, but this is generally rare.

From what I understand I will have to pay for my uniforms. Basically, when I arrive to Basic they will give me a pre loaded $400 card for all of my purchases, but it is then deducted from my first pay check. I was told this yesterday by someone who went through Basic last year.

About what I had to do. You'll also have to cover the cost of basic toiletries and misc items like a razor, PT gear (shorts, t-shirts, white socks and running shoes), laundry bags, and other such items. I can't speak for the AF but usually they will have pre-itemized lists and you just line up and fill a laundry bag. All of which you are responsible for paying for. Hence the $400 EZ-card or whatever they are calling them these days.

You'll also periodically have to re-purchase some items. You have a shorter boot camp than our 13 weeks so it won't be as often thankfully.

If your going through AF basic, you don't pay for uniforms. They issue eveything you need, down to socks, drawers, even running shoes. The $400 advance is to pay for anything and everything else you'll need such as toiletries, pen, paper, ..,etc. That's for enlisted folks. Now if you are going through OTS, they indeed make you pay for your uniforms up front. I have experienced both first hand. I actually spent some time as an instructor in basic. I know of at least one other member of this forum that has done the same.

I picked the wrong service. Sheesh.

Alamo, thanks for clearing that up. I was told today that I need to have a minimum of 4 AFSC's listed when I go into MEPS. There are only 7 jobs that I would really want to do some, more than others. My list as of now looks like this:
1. Loadmaster
2. In-flight Refueling
3. Fire Protection,
4. ATC
5. Aerial Gunner
6. Airborne Battle Manager
7. ISR

I know that Fire Protection is damn near impossible to get, but I have a back ground as a volunteer fire fighter and I am currently certified in my state as a Fire Figher (that may help)

I really only want #1-4, but i figured some one here may have had some experience with one of the others and could give me some advice on it. Of the 7 I have listed, how would y'all rank them?

Well I'm a ABMer so I'm partial to flying jobs. It depneds if your definitely in it for a career or you might get out after a few tours. I say that cuz some of these jobs dont have a good civilian equlivalent. For example not much need in the civilian world for an Aerial gunner, but that's a cool job. Nor for ABMers, IFR and only a few loadmaster jobs. Basically, unless your a pilot, flying jobs are tough to transition to civilian. On the other hand, they pay more and you get to travel more. So here's my list, if I was doing it over after 24 years of experience.

1. Load master - flight pay and lots of cool places
2. Aerial gunner - flight pay, helos, SOF support cool stuff
3. IFR - flight pay, but some long missions depending on airframe
4. ABM - flight pay, definitely longer missions, limited duty stations(Oklahoma is main)
5. ATC- FCC rating, lots o' $$ if you decide to go civilian
6. Fire Protection- just a cool job, but not too many fires on bases
7. ISR - just cuz I dont know enough about it

I like your list based on your comments. You got a good mix of good jobs along with good training if you get out. Go with it! Good luck!

That is pretty much the exact same way I would have made it. Would you mind telling a bit more about ABM? Also, I definitely want to make a career out of it.

That was one thing I looked for before going into the Navy. I knew I was getting out someday, whether it be after my first 5 year enlistment or 20 years down the road. And you may not believe it, but military veterans have a VERY high unemployment rate. It's because a lot of the jobs they did in the military don't transition over to the civilian world very well. Most jobs that deal with weapons, explosives, just about anything exclusively related to the military? There will be little or no job availability in the civilian sector.

So I went with a job that had a big demand in the civilian sector. ATC. In fact, many air traffic controllers that work for the FAA are prior military. Only way to get a job in the FAA is to complete a 4 year college degree in ATC, or have prior work experience. Just something to keep in mind, a job that transitions over to the civilian sector is very valuable, unless you want to be in the military till your 60's, which very few people do, and with the new PTS (Perform to Serve) system in the Navy, it's a lot harder to stay in for many years. They are pushing people to get out of the military, since it's downsizing and funding is being cut in a few areas.

You'll also periodically have to re-purchase some items. You have a shorter boot camp than our 13 weeks so it won't be as often thankfully.

But the items you'll have buy are really just little things. You're right on the 13 weeks though, it used to be 6 weeks plus a "Zero" week, now it's 8 (don't know if they still do the zero week thing anymore), and no crucible either (from what I've heard that's pretty rough).

That is pretty much the exact same way I would have made it. Would you mind telling a bit more about ABM? Also, I definitely want to make a career out of it.

ABMers mainly fly E-3 AWACS and are the airborne controller of the battle space. We control all aircraft flying in the AOR except the very low flying slow movers. We control tanker tracks, close air support aircraft, as well as bomb droppers. Lots of talking on the radio. Usually listening to 4 freqs at a time, but one is your primary depending on crew position. That's the officer side of ABM; the enlisted side identifies and track aircraft in the airspace that are friendly or unknown and basically support the controllers. Porbably do much more but it's a new career field for the enlisted so I dont know what the other duties are.

You'll also find ABMer in the E-8 JSTARS and in ground mobile units as well.

Well guys, I got my line scores back today, they are:
AFQT:90
M:94
A:90
G:89
E:95
Composite:368
From what the recruiter says I should be guaranteed me first choice of a job. I'm really hoping for loadmaster. It seems like a great job. I sent my medical records in today an hopefully I'll get those back and go to MEPS by the end of next week.

Great job! I'm positive you'll love being a "load toad".

Thanks! I'm really hoping that it all works out. If all goes to plan, I'll be heading to MEPS next thursday, any advice for MEPS?

MEPS is a lot of sitting around trying not to shoot yourself. Expect to be bored out of your mind. If you aren't getting on a bus straight for bootcamp from meps, I'd suggest bringing a book.

I've heard that it is a really long day, is there anything that I need to make sure to do or not to do?

Not really. As I said, if you aren't shipping out right after bring a book. Other than that just go where they tell you and wait. Also be ware of other recruiters. I let slip my asvab scores to one and the next thing I know the navy was clamoring for me to join their nuclear science program.

In hindsight i maybe should have.

One of my friends just left for basic and he's going into the Navy Nuke program. That seems like a pretty sweet deal also.

I had a friend in bootcamp (Navy), and he was going to Nuke school. He said it was 2 years long, and after two years you're automatically E-4, but most people make E-5. And after completion of Nuke School, you get your bonus. $90,000. I think the re-enlistiment bonus after your first contract is up is over $100,000.

I was also invited to join the Navy Nuc program. It's half the bonus up front and the other half upon completion. My ex-brother-in-law is a Nuc on CVN 76 USS Ronald Reagan.

I know lots of nukes, they all hate life.

Well, I got some bad news today. The recruiter called me and said that MEPS is only taking people for special tactics and linguist positions for the next two weeks. Hopefully they will start accepting everyone else after that. So it seems like I'll be waiting a good while longer than I had hoped to be.

Yeah, I am not too surprised. It's pretty difficult to get into the Navy and Airforce right now, they are being very selective. Even the Marines are I believe, Army's the only easy one. And if you've been paying attention to the news, this new budget deal they passed will severely cut defense spending. That means they are going to be recruiting a LOT less, and possibly kicking out some people who are already in.

Well, I've scored high enough to get a guaranteed spot as an airborne linguist or cryptologic linguist. If it comes down to it, I could do that. She said any linguist or spec tactics jobs are guarantees.

id finish school then join af as an officer, i wish i had done that id be an lt right now instead of putting on ssgt.

This thread is full of incorrect information regarding the USAF and AFSCs, i hope no one is using it to base any sort of decision on joining.

If there is any incorrect information, would you mind giving merge correct information? This thread is being used to gather advice from the personal experience of members who have been or currently are enlisted. Also, yes it is being used to gather advice in whether to join or not. As far as graduating college first, my hangups there are student loans (I would have 30k upon graduation), and my chances of getting in to OTS with my current degree (criminal justice) everyone I have talked to from the AF has said it is almost impossible to be taken into OTS as a civilian without a technical degree.

If there is any incorrect information, would you mind giving merge correct information? This thread is being used to gather advice from the personal experience of members who have been or currently are enlisted. Also, yes it is being used to gather advice in whether to join or not. As far as graduating college first, my hangups there are student loans (I would have 30k upon graduation), and my chances of getting in to OTS with my current degree (criminal justice) everyone I have talked to from the AF has said it is almost impossible to be taken into OTS as a civilian without a technical degree.

Absolutely, i'm not trying to piss in anyone else's cheerios as it seems these guys were really trying to help you out. I just want to make sure you get all the right info before signing the dotted line. :usa:






SERE Instructor? I'm curious as to what someone told you about how you can just jump into that sort of job. For starters are you at least a level 2 combatives instructor? Do you have any experience in the Spec Ops field? Have you ever taken and passed any sort of swim test? What did this recruiter tell you? Has any one warned you yet about recruiters? They can be like used car salesmen, except they sell souls. They say that if you can sell a soul you can sell anything, this is what an old recruiter friend of mine once told me. Always go and talk with at least a few different recruiters from each branch of service you are interested in. Don't give them to uch info and don't worry about anything you may have signed, you can back out anytime you want, unless of course you were sworn in by a commisioned officer, then your screwed dude.

USAF SERE is an AFSC that you can jump right into. Visit www.gosere.com for actual info.

As a Marine grunt I can honestly say, go air force. Better quality of life.

But as rob said get more info on SERE because a LOT of MOS's that sound cool are only open to people that have qualified out of other MOS's. In the Marines we have Recon which a lot of young guns think you can just jump right into from boot which isn't true. Same with EOD and some other specialty jobs in our Branch.

I'd also say be careful trying to get aviation out of the Army or Airforce. They take on a higher volume of officers and aviation is a top ticket item. Last I remember the Marines were about the only force that had guaranteed flight placement. So be sure you have everything in writing before you commit, otherwise you may be a chow hall butterball (2nd Lt).

Also as rob said, your recruiter probably has not been forth coming with you. Most guys use recruiting duty because you get promoted very quickly and because quantity tends to matter more than quality so as long as you sign on the dotted line they get the credit and look better. So you are doing good getting opinions from those who've served. First and foremost however.... GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!

To many people get promised everything from bonuses to meritorious e-2 to other nonsense and because it wasn't in writing when they get to boot they get laughed at and told the recruiter lied to them.

I'd also suggest finishing school. You never know what type of unit you'll be with and while some will work with you, I've had as many 1st Sgt's who (and somewhat rightly so) put the training over any after hours learning.

Transferring reserves to active is also a LOT of red-tape. You can sometimes find a good recruiter to help, but your reserve admin are basically lame ducks in a lot of cases and reserve battalions are notoriously slow.

There is a lot of other things I can't think of at the moment but if you've got questions I've done enough to know the ropes from both the active and reserves sides.


USMC is the only branch that requires you to cross train into EOD.


Wow, SERE is special tactics. News to me! Now TACP, Combat Controller, PJ, Combat Wx, EOD even; those are what I would consider special tactics, but thats definitely stepping it up a notch or two! Good Luck with your decision.

We(EOD) fall under CE. For anyone looking for actual info on USAF Special Tactics visit www.specialtactics.com.

I think an AF Flight Engineer is pretty much the same as a Loadmaster. Congrats on ASVAB, hope you get what you want in your enlistment contract. For what it's worth, I've seen C-17 and C-5 crewdogs doing thier homework throughout flights.

Above is incorrect regarding USAF FE vs Loadmaster.

The only downside to flight engineer is that I can't start off in the career. You have to be an e4 with 4 years experience in a feeder career to get that job.

I don't know the exact info on this but you may wish to check on www.afforums.com as there are active FEs on there.


Normally you don't get BAH unless you are E-4 or above, this coming from Navy experience, I assume the Airforce is similar. But if you are E-3 or below, you will get BAH if you have a dependent, I.E. a wife, a child, or a brother or sister whose legal guardian you have become. BAH differs depending on the area, I'm in Mississippi, poorest state in the nation. E-4 BAH here is roughly $750 a month. Chicago it's almost $1,700 a month. San Diego is about $1,800 a month. Norfolk Virginia is right around $1,200. Differs from place to place.

Single E3s in some cases can move off base in the USAF, it all depends on the amount of dorm space and how many people are on the off-base waiting list.

Not sure what branch you're in. But I can tell you in the Navy, you get BAS once you are no longer in bootcamp or A-school (tech school). That's your food allowance, $323 a month. I get $7 in BAH a month, but I still live in the barracks. In the Navy you don't get BAH unless you are married, over E-4, or have a dependent I.E. a child, or someone whose legal guardian you are. There are a few bases in the fleet where you get BAH as an E-3 or below, but those are few and far between.

USAF members in the dorms do not typically get BAS, most are required to eat in the chow hall. there are exceptions due to work limitations however.

Great job! I'm positive you'll love being a "load toad".

Load Toad is a nickname for weapons loaders, not load masters.

Thank You for clearing a lot of that up. As I said earlier, I am really just trying to get the best information I can before enlisting.

Some of the info you've pointed out was rectified by either one of T's later posts (like the SERE info) or someone else. Much of what was said however was telling him to verify because a lot of jobs out there aren't optioned from the beginning and there was some general doubt on SERE instructor. For those who've been through SERE it just seemed odd for someone with little more than book knowledge and some prac app to be teaching SERE as an e2. We didn't want the kid to sign on the dotted line just to find out his recruiter lied to him and it'd be a good 2 - 4 years before he could get into such a position. But yes SERE is a straight from boot option in the AF.

The biggest difference with FE and LM is dealing with the plane as a whole vs dealing solely with packs/cargo. There are some bleed over of duties and starting LM will naturally set you up to cross over to FE. If anything FE is just an an evolutionary step up from LM where you begin to understand the intricacies of why you did what you did as an LM. Are they the same? No. Are there aspects of the job that are similar or even bleed overs? Of course. Will you be sitting next to each other on the flight? Just about.

As for the BAS/BAH, that is all relative to the base you are stationed on and the command from your unit up to your battalion. I've seen it where there was $0 BAS/BAH because of dorm space and an available chowhall, to situations where you could be receiving one but not the other because there was either dorm space but no chow hall or vice versa, or receiving both because there was no dorm space or chow hall. I've also seen it rate for some because the chow hall had a fee attached.

And the e3 thing was mentioned before. It is entirely up to the command so long as there is dorm space and in the vast majority of situations if you aren't married you aren't living off base without a seriously good reason, and as a boot with no dependents, your not gonna top that list.

As for load toad.... I'll have to remember that next time I'm being sandwiched into the back of a c130.

I wanted to let you all know also, that I may wind up going in as an Airborne Cryptologic Linguist, provided that I pass the DLAB. The recruiter was telling me that it is critically manned and the job doesn't seem like it would be bad at all. I know it would be really tough and that he school would be even tougher, but it seems like it would be pretty cool in the end.

Good luck on your future endeavor.

Some of the info you've pointed out was rectified by either one of T's later posts (like the SERE info) or someone else. Much of what was said however was telling him to verify because a lot of jobs out there aren't optioned from the beginning and there was some general doubt on SERE instructor. For those who've been through SERE it just seemed odd for someone with little more than book knowledge and some prac app to be teaching SERE as an e2. We didn't want the kid to sign on the dotted line just to find out his recruiter lied to him and it'd be a good 2 - 4 years before he could get into such a position. But yes SERE is a straight from boot option in the AF.


Like i said before, you guys were looking out for his best interest. If you take a look at the SERE instructor pipeline you'd realize it isn't a little book knowledge and some prac app.

As for load toad.... I'll have to remember that next time I'm being sandwiched into the back of a c130.

Our Weapons loaders i believe are called Aviation Ordnance for you guys.

Its always a good time no matter what airframe you're getting stuffed nut to butt on! :D

I wanted to let you all know also, that I may wind up going in as an Airborne Cryptologic Linguist, provided that I pass the DLAB. The recruiter was telling me that it is critically manned and the job doesn't seem like it would be bad at all. I know it would be really tough and that he school would be even tougher, but it seems like it would be pretty cool in the end.

What recruiter and or what station you working with? Good luck with the DLAB!

What recruiter and or what station you working with? Good luck with the DLAB!

Staff Sgt. ehh?

Im working with Sgt. Nowell in Columbia SC and am dealing with Fort Jackson MEPS. I am just waiting on my medical records to be approved before I can go to MEPS.... Today is the 8th day of waiting. haha.

Staff Sgt. ehh?

Actually Sergeant First Class just havent changed the sig pic yet.. medical records approved? did you need a med waiver? just curious. Im a recruiter and I just like to ask questions to those who are going through the process with other recruiters to see what they are going through and its interesting to hear those speak about the process..

I don't think I need a waiver, I had an arthroscopic knee surgery about a year ago and I broke my wrist in 2007, but she didn't say I needed a waiver of any kind.

Loadmaster takes care of the packs and cargo. FE are usually people that have been in maintenance afsc like crew chief or life support hahaha or com nav or gcs. Fes are only on 130,5,rc135,e3,kc10 its a good job but a bitch job. And Loadmaster the same and also boomers. I'm a heavy crew chief come in the military your getting fucked

I'm a heavy crew chief come in the military your getting fucked

:gtfo:

You like that I'm just letting this dude know its not easy and its not peachy. Plus we might not be getting retirement any more

Don't believe that crap about them cutting the retirement. With no retirement incentives a lot of people would no longer join the military.

Don't believe that crap about them cutting the retirement. With no retirement incentives a lot of people would no longer join the military.

Idk about joining, but I know 1 guy that will be getting out for sure if that happens. :nod:

Well, I swore in to the National Guard today. My MOS is 97Y working on black boxes and displays.

Congrats Swiat! I swore into the Air Force today. I don't know my job yet, but I listed loadmaster, in flight refueling, and air traffic controller in that order. Hopefully I'll know soon.

Congrats to you too!

Well guys, I don't know if any of y'all are still subscribed to this, but if you are I have an update for you. I just got the call and I booked the Loadmaster slot and will be leaving on 28 February.

Congrats on the Load Toad job! You'll have a blast and get paid to see the world. Looks like you'll spend time time down here in San Antonio for basic and some load schooling. Good Luck!

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it. Hoping that I can get either C-17 or C-130. Any advice for Basic?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it. Hoping that I can get either C-17 or C-130. Any advice for Basic?

We can tell you everything you need to know, but it's best you find out for yourself ..I noticed the "know it alls" had the hardest time in Basic.

I'll give you a little advice though. Be where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there, in the uniform you're supposed to be in. Keep your mouth shut unless spoken to and it'll be a breeze. Oh and start working on pushups/situps/run. :judge:

True story: I received my first piece of mail around week 5-6, when my DS read the name on the letter he said "Do we have a Johnson here?" I told him it was me, he then asked "how long have you been here? ..where did you transfer from?" I said, "I've been here since week 0 DS". :D You do NOT want to be known, make yourself known(in a good way) when you get to your first duty station.

Thats what I have been told also. All of my friends have said just try to stay as far under the radar as possible. The way im looking at it is just that thousands have done it before me and thousands will do it after me, so there is no way I will quit. haha.