My turbo build. 5.3/t56 with a GT45
07-31-2011, 04:52 PM
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My turbo build. 5.3/t56 with a GT45 Figured i would make a build thread and show the progress on my setup
Car started out as a Stock bottom end ls1, Torquer v2 cam and stage 2.5 PRC heads. with a Fast 92/92 on it. Car dynod 441/401 previously. Motor had 140k-ish when i spun a bearing on the way home from work. I already had 90% of the pieces for the turbo build so i figured it would be perfect timing to do it now
Gonna do it in "stages" because i am antsy to get the car back together and running
Gonna start off with 6psi until i get the rest of the fuel system plumbed in. Then im gonna bump the boost up and also go with a new clutch, most likely a monster level 5
Motor is a bone stock 5.3
Custom turbo cam 224/232 .590/.590 @ 114 lsa
Ported 317 heads milled down to 63 cc.Should put me about 9.3 on the 5.3 motor
Ported fast 92mm intake
Nick Williams 92mm throttle body
Suspension.
Eibach pro kit lowering springs
BMR 32mm front sway bar
Poly sway bar bushings and endlinks
Edelbrock torque arm
Poly torque arm mount
J&m tubular lower control arms with poly endlinks
UMI double adjustable panhard bar
UMI lower control arm relocation brackets
BMR sub frame connectors
KYB GR2 Rear shocks
Transmission.
T-56 with a full stage 2 rebuild.
Spec 3 clutch.
01+ GM slave.
01+ stock adjustable master cylinder.
Hurst Short shifter with custom short stick
Turbo Setup
Ebay gt 45- Got it dirt cheap so im gonna see what it can do
32x12x4" Thick front mount intercooler
RPS 50mm Blow off valve
Precision Turbo 46mm Wastegate
2.25" polished stainless merge piping
3" from turbo to intercooller- 3.5" from intake to intercooler
3.5" polished stainless steel downpipe
3.5" stainless steel electric cutout
Still deciding on a muffler, either a 3.5" dynomax bullet or a 3.5" borla xr1
Here is the car
New motor ready to go in with old headers on it
Intercooler mounted
Bringing the car home back from the shop and gonna finish the turbo kit at the house
NEW UPDATES
Finally got around to putting some new goodies in the Turbo ss
My old ebay turbo got killed because my oil fitting caught some metal shavings and no oil could get into the turbo. so while the car was down i put some new upgrades in!
Here is my list of new parts- i still need to install the fuel system
-Custom comp cam 224/232 .590/.590 114 lsa
-317 heads ported and milled down to 63 cc- SHould be about 9.7 Compression now on my 5.3 truck motor
-Texas Speed Hardened Pushrods
-PRC Double valve springs
-ls7 lifters
-Turbonetics TC78 .96 A/R and custom 3.5" exhaust housing and downpipe flange
-Bosch 78lb injectors
-Deatschwerks 320LPH fuel tank
Sanded down and sprayed the engine bay with some color match paint
The old setup made 45* HP/50* tq on 6 psi with bone stock 5.3.. Really hoping i can make 580-600 hp/650tq with this new setup on 6-8 lbs. My main goal is to break 750-800hp on 12-15lbs
VIDEO TO NEW IDLE CLIP
http://www.youtube.com/embed/borFqgpZl4s
Car started out as a Stock bottom end ls1, Torquer v2 cam and stage 2.5 PRC heads. with a Fast 92/92 on it. Car dynod 441/401 previously. Motor had 140k-ish when i spun a bearing on the way home from work. I already had 90% of the pieces for the turbo build so i figured it would be perfect timing to do it now
Gonna do it in "stages" because i am antsy to get the car back together and running
Gonna start off with 6psi until i get the rest of the fuel system plumbed in. Then im gonna bump the boost up and also go with a new clutch, most likely a monster level 5
Motor is a bone stock 5.3
Custom turbo cam 224/232 .590/.590 @ 114 lsa
Ported 317 heads milled down to 63 cc.Should put me about 9.3 on the 5.3 motor
Ported fast 92mm intake
Nick Williams 92mm throttle body
Suspension.
Eibach pro kit lowering springs
BMR 32mm front sway bar
Poly sway bar bushings and endlinks
Edelbrock torque arm
Poly torque arm mount
J&m tubular lower control arms with poly endlinks
UMI double adjustable panhard bar
UMI lower control arm relocation brackets
BMR sub frame connectors
KYB GR2 Rear shocks
Transmission.
T-56 with a full stage 2 rebuild.
Spec 3 clutch.
01+ GM slave.
01+ stock adjustable master cylinder.
Hurst Short shifter with custom short stick
Turbo Setup
Ebay gt 45- Got it dirt cheap so im gonna see what it can do
32x12x4" Thick front mount intercooler
RPS 50mm Blow off valve
Precision Turbo 46mm Wastegate
2.25" polished stainless merge piping
3" from turbo to intercooller- 3.5" from intake to intercooler
3.5" polished stainless steel downpipe
3.5" stainless steel electric cutout
Still deciding on a muffler, either a 3.5" dynomax bullet or a 3.5" borla xr1
Here is the car
New motor ready to go in with old headers on it
Intercooler mounted
Bringing the car home back from the shop and gonna finish the turbo kit at the house
NEW UPDATES
Finally got around to putting some new goodies in the Turbo ss
My old ebay turbo got killed because my oil fitting caught some metal shavings and no oil could get into the turbo. so while the car was down i put some new upgrades in!
Here is my list of new parts- i still need to install the fuel system
-Custom comp cam 224/232 .590/.590 114 lsa
-317 heads ported and milled down to 63 cc- SHould be about 9.7 Compression now on my 5.3 truck motor
-Texas Speed Hardened Pushrods
-PRC Double valve springs
-ls7 lifters
-Turbonetics TC78 .96 A/R and custom 3.5" exhaust housing and downpipe flange
-Bosch 78lb injectors
-Deatschwerks 320LPH fuel tank
Sanded down and sprayed the engine bay with some color match paint
The old setup made 45* HP/50* tq on 6 psi with bone stock 5.3.. Really hoping i can make 580-600 hp/650tq with this new setup on 6-8 lbs. My main goal is to break 750-800hp on 12-15lbs
VIDEO TO NEW IDLE CLIP
http://www.youtube.com/embed/borFqgpZl4s
Last edited by Fondle; 07-01-2012 at 05:03 PM.
08-01-2011, 06:50 AM
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ya i planned it like that to make spool as quick as possible with the t56 and this being a 95% street car. So im hoping to have the turbo spooled around 2800-3200
08-06-2011, 08:43 PM
#6
Do you have a link to what EBAY gt45 turbo this is. I can see a market for cheaper turbos and budget stuff. The thing I dont like is the name they put on some of these turbos. A GT45 is a Garrett turbo and a real Garrett GT45 is an 80mm turbo and good for over 1000hp EASY. A real GT45 is a big turbo and looks like a 1000hp turbo. Alot of the cheap Ebay turbos are big on the outside just like the real thing but with MUCH smaller wheels in them. I was just looking at some of the GT45 listings on ebay and the biggest ones where 68.9mm and the one for $250 was only a 61.4mm turbo. I wish they could make stuff like that against the law because its really misleading to call a 69 or 61 mm turbo a GT45.
I am really thinking hard about putting a cammed 4.8 turbo into an 87 gn I have. I have four brand new turbos in my basement:
A. 1 real Garrett GT4202R dual ball bearing (garrett rates these for 700 to 1000hp) but you would be really maxing one out more in the 900hp range. This is a high flow 74.7mm garrett racing turbo.
B. 1 PTE 6176 scrl or something like that (I would have to pull it out of the box and check the tag). I bought this from PTE when they where first releasing their dual ball bearing turbos a few years back. This is a P-trim 61mm turbo probably good for 600 hp tops.
C. 2 Turbonetics TS04's single ball bearing turbos. These are basically P-trim TE44's but with the the S compressor housing with the larger 4" inlets. These are 58mm turbos and will be maxed at about 500 to 550hp each. I got these thru Jack Cotton at Cottons performance, a great guy BTW.
On the surface it looks I have three solid turbo option if I picked up a twin from PTE for that 6176 rl one I have, and i have no idea if they make them now. As I look into the LS stuff more and more it makes me wonder if any of my current options would even be the right choice. Im sure they would be close enough to run decent especially considering it would be for a 4.8. The rub is they will be on the small side even if I only want to make say 800hp. I did just state that a pair of 500 to 600, or a single 900 hp turbo may be to small even if I only want to make 800hp. I will try to keep this short......
Here goes. Boost is the EXTRA air a turbo is trying to pump into a motor. If the motor flowed the air as fast as the turbo tried to pump it in, you would never get into boost. This is most noticeable during spool up or during the lag stage. The motor is wanting to flow more air than the turbo so we dont have pressure building in the intake. Once the turbo starts spinning fast enough that it starts out flowing the motor air will start backing up in the intake manifold and the boost gauge starts climbing. So that part is pretty basic......
the compressor section of a turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor. A compressor like this wants to do TWO things as is spins faster. In the case of a turbocharger feeding a motor air it will want to do these two things. It will want to flow more air AND it will want to build more pressure. Because of this when you pick a turbocharger you pick it based on how much HP you expect to make AND at what boost level. You do not pick a turbo based on I want to make 700hp.... you pick a turbo based on I want to make about 700hp at 12 psi (for example). This isnt voodoo magic this is just how a pump or a compressor of that style works. Spin a turbo faster it wants to flow more air and wants to build more pressure. If you look at compressor maps over and over and you pay good attention to them you will see a couple things:
1. Alot of times the advertized hp capability is actually off the graph. Like with my GT4202R, if you plot out 1000hp on the compressor map for that turbo on garretts site you are literally off of the graph. infact about 950 hp is about where the efficiency islands stop being plotted.
2. Most modern turbos like to build boost. They have very vertical compressor maps compared to some of your old school turbos like say a "60 dash 1". Because of this the center of about every single compressor map out there is around the 24 to 27psi of boost range. Now this is the middle of the map, so what boost range do you think they are in at close to the rated "up to" hp for a given turbo?? Its usually in the 30's some where. In the case of my GT4202R "the up to 1000hp" plots around a max of 950 with 0out going off the graph and it does this in the 33 to 37 psi range.
lets stick to this GT4202R a bit longer. Lets say I want to put it on an LS motor and run 11 psi of boost. If I then look at Garretts compressor map for this turbo and look for whats the MAX Hp I can make with it and atleast still be on the map. Its approx 650hp, and thats the max and still being on the map. If you asked well at what hp level would it be working at peak efficiency for 11 psi....it would be about only 425hp !! this would also be working at a pretty decent efficiency around 600 hp. I am looking to turbo a 4.8 so my boost to go 800hp would have to be higher than 11psi i was just using 11 psi because alot of the guys on here are running 5.7's and 6.0's around the 11 psi range. If I needed 15 psi to run 800hp on a 4.8, and then plotted the 15 psi of boost on the map guess what, at 750 hp I fall off the map. At the 15psi I would be at peak efficiency around 500hp and a decent efficiency up to about 680hp.
In the case of my GT4202R being rated to 1000 hp..... If i wanted to make 800hp with this turbo @ 15psi of boost on a 4.8 it would be too small! Could i hit the number? could it do it? sure but it wouldnt be working well.
I am going to make a guess here....
Turbos are getting more and more popular. They are really catching on and are being put on a whole lot more motors that werent turbocharged from the factory. This is really cool for a turbo fan like myself. The problem is the market has been driven by the four and six cylinder crowd for years. Its a simple matter of thats where the customers and their money was. Now enter the LS guys with their stock motors with their high flowing stock heads and roller cams. You guys are making so much hp naturally aspirated that the flow to boost ratios are basically off the damn charts! In the turbo world its always been considered better to error a little small on the turbo selection especially for a street car. The LS guys may be the first crowd that gets told "you better go a little bigger than you think you need"
HTH
I am really thinking hard about putting a cammed 4.8 turbo into an 87 gn I have. I have four brand new turbos in my basement:
A. 1 real Garrett GT4202R dual ball bearing (garrett rates these for 700 to 1000hp) but you would be really maxing one out more in the 900hp range. This is a high flow 74.7mm garrett racing turbo.
B. 1 PTE 6176 scrl or something like that (I would have to pull it out of the box and check the tag). I bought this from PTE when they where first releasing their dual ball bearing turbos a few years back. This is a P-trim 61mm turbo probably good for 600 hp tops.
C. 2 Turbonetics TS04's single ball bearing turbos. These are basically P-trim TE44's but with the the S compressor housing with the larger 4" inlets. These are 58mm turbos and will be maxed at about 500 to 550hp each. I got these thru Jack Cotton at Cottons performance, a great guy BTW.
On the surface it looks I have three solid turbo option if I picked up a twin from PTE for that 6176 rl one I have, and i have no idea if they make them now. As I look into the LS stuff more and more it makes me wonder if any of my current options would even be the right choice. Im sure they would be close enough to run decent especially considering it would be for a 4.8. The rub is they will be on the small side even if I only want to make say 800hp. I did just state that a pair of 500 to 600, or a single 900 hp turbo may be to small even if I only want to make 800hp. I will try to keep this short......
Here goes. Boost is the EXTRA air a turbo is trying to pump into a motor. If the motor flowed the air as fast as the turbo tried to pump it in, you would never get into boost. This is most noticeable during spool up or during the lag stage. The motor is wanting to flow more air than the turbo so we dont have pressure building in the intake. Once the turbo starts spinning fast enough that it starts out flowing the motor air will start backing up in the intake manifold and the boost gauge starts climbing. So that part is pretty basic......
the compressor section of a turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor. A compressor like this wants to do TWO things as is spins faster. In the case of a turbocharger feeding a motor air it will want to do these two things. It will want to flow more air AND it will want to build more pressure. Because of this when you pick a turbocharger you pick it based on how much HP you expect to make AND at what boost level. You do not pick a turbo based on I want to make 700hp.... you pick a turbo based on I want to make about 700hp at 12 psi (for example). This isnt voodoo magic this is just how a pump or a compressor of that style works. Spin a turbo faster it wants to flow more air and wants to build more pressure. If you look at compressor maps over and over and you pay good attention to them you will see a couple things:
1. Alot of times the advertized hp capability is actually off the graph. Like with my GT4202R, if you plot out 1000hp on the compressor map for that turbo on garretts site you are literally off of the graph. infact about 950 hp is about where the efficiency islands stop being plotted.
2. Most modern turbos like to build boost. They have very vertical compressor maps compared to some of your old school turbos like say a "60 dash 1". Because of this the center of about every single compressor map out there is around the 24 to 27psi of boost range. Now this is the middle of the map, so what boost range do you think they are in at close to the rated "up to" hp for a given turbo?? Its usually in the 30's some where. In the case of my GT4202R "the up to 1000hp" plots around a max of 950 with 0out going off the graph and it does this in the 33 to 37 psi range.
lets stick to this GT4202R a bit longer. Lets say I want to put it on an LS motor and run 11 psi of boost. If I then look at Garretts compressor map for this turbo and look for whats the MAX Hp I can make with it and atleast still be on the map. Its approx 650hp, and thats the max and still being on the map. If you asked well at what hp level would it be working at peak efficiency for 11 psi....it would be about only 425hp !! this would also be working at a pretty decent efficiency around 600 hp. I am looking to turbo a 4.8 so my boost to go 800hp would have to be higher than 11psi i was just using 11 psi because alot of the guys on here are running 5.7's and 6.0's around the 11 psi range. If I needed 15 psi to run 800hp on a 4.8, and then plotted the 15 psi of boost on the map guess what, at 750 hp I fall off the map. At the 15psi I would be at peak efficiency around 500hp and a decent efficiency up to about 680hp.
In the case of my GT4202R being rated to 1000 hp..... If i wanted to make 800hp with this turbo @ 15psi of boost on a 4.8 it would be too small! Could i hit the number? could it do it? sure but it wouldnt be working well.
I am going to make a guess here....
Turbos are getting more and more popular. They are really catching on and are being put on a whole lot more motors that werent turbocharged from the factory. This is really cool for a turbo fan like myself. The problem is the market has been driven by the four and six cylinder crowd for years. Its a simple matter of thats where the customers and their money was. Now enter the LS guys with their stock motors with their high flowing stock heads and roller cams. You guys are making so much hp naturally aspirated that the flow to boost ratios are basically off the damn charts! In the turbo world its always been considered better to error a little small on the turbo selection especially for a street car. The LS guys may be the first crowd that gets told "you better go a little bigger than you think you need"
HTH
08-06-2011, 10:06 PM
#7
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Do you have a link to what EBAY gt45 turbo this is. I can see a market for cheaper turbos and budget stuff. The thing I dont like is the name they put on some of these turbos. A GT45 is a Garrett turbo and a real Garrett GT45 is an 80mm turbo and good for over 1000hp EASY. A real GT45 is a big turbo and looks like a 1000hp turbo. Alot of the cheap Ebay turbos are big on the outside just like the real thing but with MUCH smaller wheels in them. I was just looking at some of the GT45 listings on ebay and the biggest ones where 68.9mm and the one for $250 was only a 61.4mm turbo. I wish they could make stuff like that against the law because its really misleading to call a 69 or 61 mm turbo a GT45.
I am really thinking hard about putting a cammed 4.8 turbo into an 87 gn I have. I have four brand new turbos in my basement:
A. 1 real Garrett GT4202R dual ball bearing (garrett rates these for 700 to 1000hp) but you would be really maxing one out more in the 900hp range. This is a high flow 74.7mm garrett racing turbo.
B. 1 PTE 6176 scrl or something like that (I would have to pull it out of the box and check the tag). I bought this from PTE when they where first releasing their dual ball bearing turbos a few years back. This is a P-trim 61mm turbo probably good for 600 hp tops.
C. 2 Turbonetics TS04's single ball bearing turbos. These are basically P-trim TE44's but with the the S compressor housing with the larger 4" inlets. These are 58mm turbos and will be maxed at about 500 to 550hp each. I got these thru Jack Cotton at Cottons performance, a great guy BTW.
On the surface it looks I have three solid turbo option if I picked up a twin from PTE for that 6176 rl one I have, and i have no idea if they make them now. As I look into the LS stuff more and more it makes me wonder if any of my current options would even be the right choice. Im sure they would be close enough to run decent especially considering it would be for a 4.8. The rub is they will be on the small side even if I only want to make say 800hp. I did just state that a pair of 500 to 600, or a single 900 hp turbo may be to small even if I only want to make 800hp. I will try to keep this short......
Here goes. Boost is the EXTRA air a turbo is trying to pump into a motor. If the motor flowed the air as fast as the turbo tried to pump it in, you would never get into boost. This is most noticeable during spool up or during the lag stage. The motor is wanting to flow more air than the turbo so we dont have pressure building in the intake. Once the turbo starts spinning fast enough that it starts out flowing the motor air will start backing up in the intake manifold and the boost gauge starts climbing. So that part is pretty basic......
the compressor section of a turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor. A compressor like this wants to do TWO things as is spins faster. In the case of a turbocharger feeding a motor air it will want to do these two things. It will want to flow more air AND it will want to build more pressure. Because of this when you pick a turbocharger you pick it based on how much HP you expect to make AND at what boost level. You do not pick a turbo based on I want to make 700hp.... you pick a turbo based on I want to make about 700hp at 12 psi (for example). This isnt voodoo magic this is just how a pump or a compressor of that style works. Spin a turbo faster it wants to flow more air and wants to build more pressure. If you look at compressor maps over and over and you pay good attention to them you will see a couple things:
1. Alot of times the advertized hp capability is actually off the graph. Like with my GT4202R, if you plot out 1000hp on the compressor map for that turbo on garretts site you are literally off of the graph. infact about 950 hp is about where the efficiency islands stop being plotted.
2. Most modern turbos like to build boost. They have very vertical compressor maps compared to some of your old school turbos like say a "60 dash 1". Because of this the center of about every single compressor map out there is around the 24 to 27psi of boost range. Now this is the middle of the map, so what boost range do you think they are in at close to the rated "up to" hp for a given turbo?? Its usually in the 30's some where. In the case of my GT4202R "the up to 1000hp" plots around a max of 950 with 0out going off the graph and it does this in the 33 to 37 psi range.
lets stick to this GT4202R a bit longer. Lets say I want to put it on an LS motor and run 11 psi of boost. If I then look at Garretts compressor map for this turbo and look for whats the MAX Hp I can make with it and atleast still be on the map. Its approx 650hp, and thats the max and still being on the map. If you asked well at what hp level would it be working at peak efficiency for 11 psi....it would be about only 425hp !! this would also be working at a pretty decent efficiency around 600 hp. I am looking to turbo a 4.8 so my boost to go 800hp would have to be higher than 11psi i was just using 11 psi because alot of the guys on here are running 5.7's and 6.0's around the 11 psi range. If I needed 15 psi to run 800hp on a 4.8, and then plotted the 15 psi of boost on the map guess what, at 750 hp I fall off the map. At the 15psi I would be at peak efficiency around 500hp and a decent efficiency up to about 680hp.
In the case of my GT4202R being rated to 1000 hp..... If i wanted to make 800hp with this turbo @ 15psi of boost on a 4.8 it would be too small! Could i hit the number? could it do it? sure but it wouldnt be working well.
I am going to make a guess here....
Turbos are getting more and more popular. They are really catching on and are being put on a whole lot more motors that werent turbocharged from the factory. This is really cool for a turbo fan like myself. The problem is the market has been driven by the four and six cylinder crowd for years. Its a simple matter of thats where the customers and their money was. Now enter the LS guys with their stock motors with their high flowing stock heads and roller cams. You guys are making so much hp naturally aspirated that the flow to boost ratios are basically off the damn charts! In the turbo world its always been considered better to error a little small on the turbo selection especially for a street car. The LS guys may be the first crowd that gets told "you better go a little bigger than you think you need"
HTH
I am really thinking hard about putting a cammed 4.8 turbo into an 87 gn I have. I have four brand new turbos in my basement:
A. 1 real Garrett GT4202R dual ball bearing (garrett rates these for 700 to 1000hp) but you would be really maxing one out more in the 900hp range. This is a high flow 74.7mm garrett racing turbo.
B. 1 PTE 6176 scrl or something like that (I would have to pull it out of the box and check the tag). I bought this from PTE when they where first releasing their dual ball bearing turbos a few years back. This is a P-trim 61mm turbo probably good for 600 hp tops.
C. 2 Turbonetics TS04's single ball bearing turbos. These are basically P-trim TE44's but with the the S compressor housing with the larger 4" inlets. These are 58mm turbos and will be maxed at about 500 to 550hp each. I got these thru Jack Cotton at Cottons performance, a great guy BTW.
On the surface it looks I have three solid turbo option if I picked up a twin from PTE for that 6176 rl one I have, and i have no idea if they make them now. As I look into the LS stuff more and more it makes me wonder if any of my current options would even be the right choice. Im sure they would be close enough to run decent especially considering it would be for a 4.8. The rub is they will be on the small side even if I only want to make say 800hp. I did just state that a pair of 500 to 600, or a single 900 hp turbo may be to small even if I only want to make 800hp. I will try to keep this short......
Here goes. Boost is the EXTRA air a turbo is trying to pump into a motor. If the motor flowed the air as fast as the turbo tried to pump it in, you would never get into boost. This is most noticeable during spool up or during the lag stage. The motor is wanting to flow more air than the turbo so we dont have pressure building in the intake. Once the turbo starts spinning fast enough that it starts out flowing the motor air will start backing up in the intake manifold and the boost gauge starts climbing. So that part is pretty basic......
the compressor section of a turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor. A compressor like this wants to do TWO things as is spins faster. In the case of a turbocharger feeding a motor air it will want to do these two things. It will want to flow more air AND it will want to build more pressure. Because of this when you pick a turbocharger you pick it based on how much HP you expect to make AND at what boost level. You do not pick a turbo based on I want to make 700hp.... you pick a turbo based on I want to make about 700hp at 12 psi (for example). This isnt voodoo magic this is just how a pump or a compressor of that style works. Spin a turbo faster it wants to flow more air and wants to build more pressure. If you look at compressor maps over and over and you pay good attention to them you will see a couple things:
1. Alot of times the advertized hp capability is actually off the graph. Like with my GT4202R, if you plot out 1000hp on the compressor map for that turbo on garretts site you are literally off of the graph. infact about 950 hp is about where the efficiency islands stop being plotted.
2. Most modern turbos like to build boost. They have very vertical compressor maps compared to some of your old school turbos like say a "60 dash 1". Because of this the center of about every single compressor map out there is around the 24 to 27psi of boost range. Now this is the middle of the map, so what boost range do you think they are in at close to the rated "up to" hp for a given turbo?? Its usually in the 30's some where. In the case of my GT4202R "the up to 1000hp" plots around a max of 950 with 0out going off the graph and it does this in the 33 to 37 psi range.
lets stick to this GT4202R a bit longer. Lets say I want to put it on an LS motor and run 11 psi of boost. If I then look at Garretts compressor map for this turbo and look for whats the MAX Hp I can make with it and atleast still be on the map. Its approx 650hp, and thats the max and still being on the map. If you asked well at what hp level would it be working at peak efficiency for 11 psi....it would be about only 425hp !! this would also be working at a pretty decent efficiency around 600 hp. I am looking to turbo a 4.8 so my boost to go 800hp would have to be higher than 11psi i was just using 11 psi because alot of the guys on here are running 5.7's and 6.0's around the 11 psi range. If I needed 15 psi to run 800hp on a 4.8, and then plotted the 15 psi of boost on the map guess what, at 750 hp I fall off the map. At the 15psi I would be at peak efficiency around 500hp and a decent efficiency up to about 680hp.
In the case of my GT4202R being rated to 1000 hp..... If i wanted to make 800hp with this turbo @ 15psi of boost on a 4.8 it would be too small! Could i hit the number? could it do it? sure but it wouldnt be working well.
I am going to make a guess here....
Turbos are getting more and more popular. They are really catching on and are being put on a whole lot more motors that werent turbocharged from the factory. This is really cool for a turbo fan like myself. The problem is the market has been driven by the four and six cylinder crowd for years. Its a simple matter of thats where the customers and their money was. Now enter the LS guys with their stock motors with their high flowing stock heads and roller cams. You guys are making so much hp naturally aspirated that the flow to boost ratios are basically off the damn charts! In the turbo world its always been considered better to error a little small on the turbo selection especially for a street car. The LS guys may be the first crowd that gets told "you better go a little bigger than you think you need"
HTH
Trending Topics
08-06-2011, 10:43 PM
#10
Besides the part at the top about the misleading labeling of the ebay gt45 turbos, not really sure what the point of your rant was.
HTH
08-06-2011, 11:09 PM
#11
I will try to keep this short......
Here goes. Boost is the EXTRA air a turbo is trying to pump into a motor. If the motor flowed the air as fast as the turbo tried to pump it in, you would never get into boost. This is most noticeable during spool up or during the lag stage. The motor is wanting to flow more air than the turbo so we dont have pressure building in the intake. Once the turbo starts spinning fast enough that it starts out flowing the motor air will start backing up in the intake manifold and the boost gauge starts climbing. So that part is pretty basic......
the compressor section of a turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor. A compressor like this wants to do TWO things as is spins faster. In the case of a turbocharger feeding a motor air it will want to do these two things. It will want to flow more air AND it will want to build more pressure. Because of this when you pick a turbocharger you pick it based on how much HP you expect to make AND at what boost level. You do not pick a turbo based on I want to make 700hp.... you pick a turbo based on I want to make about 700hp at 12 psi (for example). This isnt voodoo magic this is just how a pump or a compressor of that style works. Spin a turbo faster it wants to flow more air and wants to build more pressure. If you look at compressor maps over and over and you pay good attention to them you will see a couple things:
1. Alot of times the advertized hp capability is actually off the graph. Like with my GT4202R, if you plot out 1000hp on the compressor map for that turbo on garretts site you are literally off of the graph. infact about 950 hp is about where the efficiency islands stop being plotted.
2. Most modern turbos like to build boost. They have very vertical compressor maps compared to some of your old school turbos like say a "60 dash 1". Because of this the center of about every single compressor map out there is around the 24 to 27psi of boost range. Now this is the middle of the map, so what boost range do you think they are in at close to the rated "up to" hp for a given turbo?? Its usually in the 30's some where. In the case of my GT4202R "the up to 1000hp" plots around a max of 950 with 0out going off the graph and it does this in the 33 to 37 psi range.
lets stick to this GT4202R a bit longer. Lets say I want to put it on an LS motor and run 11 psi of boost. If I then look at Garretts compressor map for this turbo and look for whats the MAX Hp I can make with it and atleast still be on the map. Its approx 650hp, and thats the max and still being on the map. If you asked well at what hp level would it be working at peak efficiency for 11 psi....it would be about only 425hp !! this would also be working at a pretty decent efficiency around 600 hp. I am looking to turbo a 4.8 so my boost to go 800hp would have to be higher than 11psi i was just using 11 psi because alot of the guys on here are running 5.7's and 6.0's around the 11 psi range. If I needed 15 psi to run 800hp on a 4.8, and then plotted the 15 psi of boost on the map guess what, at 750 hp I fall off the map. At the 15psi I would be at peak efficiency around 500hp and a decent efficiency up to about 680hp.
In the case of my GT4202R being rated to 1000 hp..... If i wanted to make 800hp with this turbo @ 15psi of boost on a 4.8 it would be too small! Could i hit the number? could it do it? sure but it wouldnt be working well.
I am going to make a guess here....
Turbos are getting more and more popular. They are really catching on and are being put on a whole lot more motors that werent turbocharged from the factory. This is really cool for a turbo fan like myself. The problem is the market has been driven by the four and six cylinder crowd for years. Its a simple matter of thats where the customers and their money was. Now enter the LS guys with their stock motors with their high flowing stock heads and roller cams. You guys are making so much hp naturally aspirated that the flow to boost ratios are basically off the damn charts! In the turbo world its always been considered better to error a little small on the turbo selection especially for a street car. The LS guys may be the first crowd that gets told "you better go a little bigger than you think you need"
HTH
Here goes. Boost is the EXTRA air a turbo is trying to pump into a motor. If the motor flowed the air as fast as the turbo tried to pump it in, you would never get into boost. This is most noticeable during spool up or during the lag stage. The motor is wanting to flow more air than the turbo so we dont have pressure building in the intake. Once the turbo starts spinning fast enough that it starts out flowing the motor air will start backing up in the intake manifold and the boost gauge starts climbing. So that part is pretty basic......
the compressor section of a turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor. A compressor like this wants to do TWO things as is spins faster. In the case of a turbocharger feeding a motor air it will want to do these two things. It will want to flow more air AND it will want to build more pressure. Because of this when you pick a turbocharger you pick it based on how much HP you expect to make AND at what boost level. You do not pick a turbo based on I want to make 700hp.... you pick a turbo based on I want to make about 700hp at 12 psi (for example). This isnt voodoo magic this is just how a pump or a compressor of that style works. Spin a turbo faster it wants to flow more air and wants to build more pressure. If you look at compressor maps over and over and you pay good attention to them you will see a couple things:
1. Alot of times the advertized hp capability is actually off the graph. Like with my GT4202R, if you plot out 1000hp on the compressor map for that turbo on garretts site you are literally off of the graph. infact about 950 hp is about where the efficiency islands stop being plotted.
2. Most modern turbos like to build boost. They have very vertical compressor maps compared to some of your old school turbos like say a "60 dash 1". Because of this the center of about every single compressor map out there is around the 24 to 27psi of boost range. Now this is the middle of the map, so what boost range do you think they are in at close to the rated "up to" hp for a given turbo?? Its usually in the 30's some where. In the case of my GT4202R "the up to 1000hp" plots around a max of 950 with 0out going off the graph and it does this in the 33 to 37 psi range.
lets stick to this GT4202R a bit longer. Lets say I want to put it on an LS motor and run 11 psi of boost. If I then look at Garretts compressor map for this turbo and look for whats the MAX Hp I can make with it and atleast still be on the map. Its approx 650hp, and thats the max and still being on the map. If you asked well at what hp level would it be working at peak efficiency for 11 psi....it would be about only 425hp !! this would also be working at a pretty decent efficiency around 600 hp. I am looking to turbo a 4.8 so my boost to go 800hp would have to be higher than 11psi i was just using 11 psi because alot of the guys on here are running 5.7's and 6.0's around the 11 psi range. If I needed 15 psi to run 800hp on a 4.8, and then plotted the 15 psi of boost on the map guess what, at 750 hp I fall off the map. At the 15psi I would be at peak efficiency around 500hp and a decent efficiency up to about 680hp.
In the case of my GT4202R being rated to 1000 hp..... If i wanted to make 800hp with this turbo @ 15psi of boost on a 4.8 it would be too small! Could i hit the number? could it do it? sure but it wouldnt be working well.
I am going to make a guess here....
Turbos are getting more and more popular. They are really catching on and are being put on a whole lot more motors that werent turbocharged from the factory. This is really cool for a turbo fan like myself. The problem is the market has been driven by the four and six cylinder crowd for years. Its a simple matter of thats where the customers and their money was. Now enter the LS guys with their stock motors with their high flowing stock heads and roller cams. You guys are making so much hp naturally aspirated that the flow to boost ratios are basically off the damn charts! In the turbo world its always been considered better to error a little small on the turbo selection especially for a street car. The LS guys may be the first crowd that gets told "you better go a little bigger than you think you need"
HTH
ha ha ha.....so much for that!!! good info though dude. Good Luck w/ your build Fondle
08-06-2011, 11:21 PM
#13
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Figured i would make a build thread and show the progress on my setup
Car started out as a Stock bottom end ls1, Torquer v2 cam and stage 2.5 PRC heads. with a Fast 92/92 on it. Car dynod 441/401 previously. Motor had 140k-ish when i spun a bearing on the way home from work. I already had 90% of the pieces for the turbo build so i figured it would be perfect timing to do it now
Gonna do it in "stages" because i am antsy to get the car back together and running
Gonna start off with 6psi until i get the rest of the fuel system plumbed in. Then im gonna bump the boost up and also go with a new clutch, most likely a monster level 5
Motor is a bone stock 5.3
Custom turbo cam 224/232 .590/.590 @ 114 lsa
Ported 317 heads milled down to 63 cc.Should put me about 9.3 on the 5.3 motor
Ported fast 92mm intake
Nick Williams 92mm throttle body
Suspension.
Eibach pro kit lowering springs
BMR 32mm front sway bar
Poly sway bar bushings and endlinks
Edelbrock torque arm
Poly torque arm mount
J&m tubular lower control arms with poly endlinks
UMI double adjustable panhard bar
UMI lower control arm relocation brackets
BMR sub frame connectors
KYB GR2 Rear shocks
Transmission.
T-56 with a full stage 2 rebuild.
Spec 3 clutch.
01+ GM slave.
01+ stock adjustable master cylinder.
Hurst Short shifter with custom short stick
Turbo Setup
Ebay gt 45- Got it dirt cheap so im gonna see what it can do
32x12x4" Thick front mount intercooler
RPS 50mm Blow off valve
Precision Turbo 46mm Wastegate
2.25" polished stainless merge piping
3" from turbo to intercooller- 3.5" from intake to intercooler
3.5" polished stainless steel downpipe
3.5" stainless steel electric cutout
Still deciding on a muffler, either a 3.5" dynomax bullet or a 3.5" borla xr1
Here is the car
New motor ready to go in with old headers on it
Intercooler mounted
Bringing the car home back from the shop and gonna finish the turbo kit at the house
Car started out as a Stock bottom end ls1, Torquer v2 cam and stage 2.5 PRC heads. with a Fast 92/92 on it. Car dynod 441/401 previously. Motor had 140k-ish when i spun a bearing on the way home from work. I already had 90% of the pieces for the turbo build so i figured it would be perfect timing to do it now
Gonna do it in "stages" because i am antsy to get the car back together and running
Gonna start off with 6psi until i get the rest of the fuel system plumbed in. Then im gonna bump the boost up and also go with a new clutch, most likely a monster level 5
Motor is a bone stock 5.3
Custom turbo cam 224/232 .590/.590 @ 114 lsa
Ported 317 heads milled down to 63 cc.Should put me about 9.3 on the 5.3 motor
Ported fast 92mm intake
Nick Williams 92mm throttle body
Suspension.
Eibach pro kit lowering springs
BMR 32mm front sway bar
Poly sway bar bushings and endlinks
Edelbrock torque arm
Poly torque arm mount
J&m tubular lower control arms with poly endlinks
UMI double adjustable panhard bar
UMI lower control arm relocation brackets
BMR sub frame connectors
KYB GR2 Rear shocks
Transmission.
T-56 with a full stage 2 rebuild.
Spec 3 clutch.
01+ GM slave.
01+ stock adjustable master cylinder.
Hurst Short shifter with custom short stick
Turbo Setup
Ebay gt 45- Got it dirt cheap so im gonna see what it can do
32x12x4" Thick front mount intercooler
RPS 50mm Blow off valve
Precision Turbo 46mm Wastegate
2.25" polished stainless merge piping
3" from turbo to intercooller- 3.5" from intake to intercooler
3.5" polished stainless steel downpipe
3.5" stainless steel electric cutout
Still deciding on a muffler, either a 3.5" dynomax bullet or a 3.5" borla xr1
Here is the car
New motor ready to go in with old headers on it
Intercooler mounted
Bringing the car home back from the shop and gonna finish the turbo kit at the house
Last edited by LTXBOI; 08-06-2011 at 11:39 PM.
08-07-2011, 01:08 AM
#15
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I did not go to ebay personally and buy the turbo, It was on a buddy of mines 6.0 lq4 motor before and did good so i dont think i will have any problems with it on this car
i got it for basically free, if it doesnt reach my goals.. so what? i can upgrade! i got a t4 flange, ad 3.5" downpipe that will match up to any name brand turbo that can for sure meet my goals. So why not try it with a turbo i got for $50 first.. in my eyes it doesnt hurt anything to try something, just because it came from ebay doesnt mean it is junk, i have seen several successful builds using this same turbo
As for progress, got the adapter for the oil feed, and the new front cover with the oil drain welded on, pulled the cross over off and got the whole thing wrapped in header wrap. Tomorrow i am going to put the cross over back on, finish the last 10% of the cold side piping (connecting it to the turbo) and make the downpipe
The intercooler piping was purchased on ebay and it came in a kit with the intercooler/couplers/ t-bolt clamps
i got it for basically free, if it doesnt reach my goals.. so what? i can upgrade! i got a t4 flange, ad 3.5" downpipe that will match up to any name brand turbo that can for sure meet my goals. So why not try it with a turbo i got for $50 first.. in my eyes it doesnt hurt anything to try something, just because it came from ebay doesnt mean it is junk, i have seen several successful builds using this same turbo
As for progress, got the adapter for the oil feed, and the new front cover with the oil drain welded on, pulled the cross over off and got the whole thing wrapped in header wrap. Tomorrow i am going to put the cross over back on, finish the last 10% of the cold side piping (connecting it to the turbo) and make the downpipe
The intercooler piping was purchased on ebay and it came in a kit with the intercooler/couplers/ t-bolt clamps
08-18-2011, 07:06 PM
#17
Is the master power gt45 considered an eBay turbo? I've got a 68 mm one with 1.05 ar on the exhaust?
I have done a fair share of reading up on cheap Ebay turbos. I like the concept of a budget build as much as anyone. MP's I dont believe are sold on Ebay anymore but I think they had the best rep of the cheaper turbos.
HTH
08-19-2011, 06:32 AM
#19
Im using a 68.9mm MP GT45 on a 6.0 at about 650rwhp. Works great.
OP-nice build but may want to fab up a little better radiator holddowns?
