View Full Version : Ninetres taking names @ Infineon Raceway 8/8/2011


ninetres
08-15-2011, 04:14 PM
Had a blast my fist time out at this amazing track. Big thanks to Matt for letting me use his tow vehicle, and camp out in his RV! Also to Sam Strano for helping me select the right parts and settings for this car. For the little mods it has....it was definitly handling its own out there. I was the fastest car in my class (Point-by passing anywhere) and the car felt great other than more understeer than I would like. The car definitly needs front LCAs to get the camber properly adjusted. I am also still battling brake hop at times. Oh well hehe. My fastest lap recored was 1:58 I believe (with an iPhone app lap timer). It seemed very accurate.



The first video is my 2nd session (the first was a bit damp, and I was getting acclimated to the course). I make a breif appearance off track in the esses at about 5:50ish. I SWEAR someone oiled down that turn. You can clearly see me steering and my car goes straight lol. I finally gave up and just pointed all 4 off track cutting through the apex. It could have been worse if I tried to somehow complete the turn. The pace picks up once I get through the intital traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VcA8aK3Xvk&feature=related



The 2nd video is my second to last session of the day. I shall call it my "Euro trash domination session" lol. I am passing M5s and GT3s the entire time. It was a blast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phsus38JAhw

SIK02SS
08-15-2011, 05:26 PM
Glad you had fun, Infineon is my favorite track :) I wasn't planning on critiquing anything, but after watching the first video, I couldn't stop myself bc as you get faster, those lines are going to get you into trouble. I can't see anything in the 2nd video to give any feedback. How many times have you been to Infineon? How long have you been tracking the car..or any car for that matter? Do you know what your tire pressures were with cold tires? What about hot tires? What mods to the car? Planning on any other track days coming up?


Turn 1, closer to the wall to initiate the uphill.
go under the bridge and you are getting to the marbles on the left too soon...you want to hit the last ~5 strips of yellow/blue
Turn 2, you turn in too early because of your placement on the track from the rumble strips after the bridge.
apexed too early
Turn 3, too hard to tell by the camera angle, but get FAR left, almost dropping a wheel and its a quick hard hit to the brake pedal to set the car, and a late turn in. Again, just like the rumble strip after T1, you want to hit the last ~4 blue/yellow then turn for 3a
T3a, early apex (this can be bad when you go faster) I judged this by your turn in point and where you tracked out to
T4, turned in a hair too early. wait for that last cone, this is a late apex corner.
T5, good
T6, too far right and apexing WAY too early. This is very dangerous, especially at this track with walls everywhere. You're apexing before you even hit the rumble strips on the left. You NEED to be apexing somewhere between the middle and end of the rumble strip depending on traffic and conditions. Get closer to the wall going to T7
T7, too hard to tell on turn in, but looks like you can carry more speed. You shouldn't be opening your hands up in this corner unless you're correcting over-steer, this is a constant radius double apex (depending on who you talk to of course ;) ).
track out further, you're pinching off the exit and robbing speed
T8 (first left into esses), good, hug it a little tighter to your left
1st right-- forget about the first part of the marbles, hit the 2nd set after that small access road (can't see it in this video angle). some cars require a tap of the brakes right there before turning in for the next left. Only turn in after you cross the 2nd set of rumble strips (it's like a small straight away for a couple seconds, this is also where you get that braking done if need be)
2nd left-- that was understeer (front tire pressures are probably also too high and looked like you over drove the corner since you were going faster the lap you went off). Your turning in too early causing the car to understeer where you don't want it to
2nd right--too early again...where you end up here is due to where you started on the initial turn in to the esses. Track all the way out (allows you to carry more speed), and then get back over to the right (but not too far, mid track at most)
T9, good..you hit the back side of the marbles on left. when you carry more speed you'll find you don't want to hug it all the way around on the inside.
T10, hard to tell, looked like you were close to the apex sometimes, far off others (when you go slower you're closer to the apex)
T11, you are inducing understeer trying to carry too much speed through the corner. Probably need to bleed off some front tire pressure to help turn in. Hard to tell where you are apexing and turning in from.

-Chris

ninetres
08-15-2011, 05:55 PM
Glad you had fun, Infineon is my favorite track :) I wasn't planning on critiquing anything, but after watching the first video, I couldn't stop myself bc as you get faster, those lines are going to get you into trouble. I can't see anything in the 2nd video to give any feedback. How many times have you been to Infineon? How long have you been tracking the car..or any car for that matter? Do you know what your tire pressures were with cold tires? What about hot tires? What mods to the car? Planning on any other track days coming up?


Turn 1, closer to the wall to initiate the uphill.
go under the bridge and you are getting to the marbles on the left too soon...you want to hit the last ~5 strips of yellow/blue
Turn 2, you turn in too early because of your placement on the track from the rumble strips after the bridge.
apexed too early
Turn 3, too hard to tell by the camera angle, but get FAR left, almost dropping a wheel and its a quick hard hit to the brake pedal to set the car, and a late turn in. Again, just like the rumble strip after T1, you want to hit the last ~4 blue/yellow then turn for 3a
T3a, early apex (this can be bad when you go faster) I judged this by your turn in point and where you tracked out to
T4, turned in a hair too early. wait for that last cone, this is a late apex corner.
T5, good
T6, too far right and apexing WAY too early. This is very dangerous, especially at this track with walls everywhere. You're apexing before you even hit the rumble strips on the left. You NEED to be apexing somewhere between the middle and end of the rumble strip depending on traffic and conditions. Get closer to the wall going to T7
T7, too hard to tell on turn in, but looks like you can carry more speed. You shouldn't be opening your hands up in this corner unless you're correcting over-steer, this is a constant radius double apex (depending on who you talk to of course ;) ).
track out further, you're pinching off the exit and robbing speed
T8 (first left into esses), good, hug it a little tighter to your left
1st right-- forget about the first part of the marbles, hit the 2nd set after that small access road (can't see it in this video angle). some cars require a tap of the brakes right there before turning in for the next left. Only turn in after you cross the 2nd set of rumble strips (it's like a small straight away for a couple seconds, this is also where you get that braking done if need be)
2nd left-- that was understeer (front tire pressures are probably also too high and looked like you over drove the corner since you were going faster the lap you went off). Your turning in too early causing the car to understeer where you don't want it to
2nd right--too early again...where you end up here is due to where you started on the initial turn in to the esses. Track all the way out (allows you to carry more speed), and then get back over to the right (but not too far, mid track at most)
T9, good..you hit the back side of the marbles on left. when you carry more speed you'll find you don't want to hug it all the way around on the inside.
T10, hard to tell, looked like you were close to the apex sometimes, far off others (when you go slower you're closer to the apex)
T11, you are inducing understeer trying to carry too much speed through the corner. Probably need to bleed off some front tire pressure to help turn in. Hard to tell where you are apexing and turning in from.

-Chris

Thanks Chris!!! I appreciate all the feedback I can get! That was my 1st day @ Infineon.....second session. The first session was a bit damp, and I was just getting a feel for the track. I know the line waas junk in that session but it was the only footage I got outside of the cab. I definitly got better in the later sessions. I had a "coach" ride with me the session after this video, and he helped me with several corners with the tips you mentioned. I have ~7 total track days behind the wheel, all of the others are at buttonwillow. I will be back at buttonwillow on 9/17 with NCRC, in the point by group running 1cw. I expect a lot of traffic though.

Mods:

~375whp, 3.73 gear, fullweight.
Nitto 275/40/17 NT01s (usually start cold around 35psi front, 33psi rear each session. We take temps too and the only issue is too little negative camber up front)
Stoptech front brake kit, XP12 fronts, XP8 rear carbotechs
Koni 4/4s
Strano springs/sways
UMI subframes
UMI rotojoint panhard

I think thats about it. I'm hoping to get the Blaine ducts on before 9/17.

ninetres
08-15-2011, 05:56 PM
By the end of the day, I felt I had completed each turn properly several times, I just didn't quite string them all together yet :)

Andy1
08-15-2011, 06:07 PM
It's been years since I ran there, but I'd say you're getting some good advice from Chris. You're too early just about everywhere. Think in terms of where you end up for the next corner, and perhaps that may help. Trade *trying to go fast* for *driving the right lines*. Avoid gaging yourself against the other cars on the track, as HPDE's have a wide range of skill levels and equipment levels. Good luck, and have fun!

Andy1

KING Z28 HAWK
08-15-2011, 06:17 PM
Nice Sean! I've been waiting for these vidz.

ninetres
08-15-2011, 06:33 PM
It's been years since I ran there, but I'd say you're getting some good advice from Chris. You're too early just about everywhere. Think in terms of where you end up for the next corner, and perhaps that may help. Trade *trying to go fast* for *driving the right lines*. Avoid gaging yourself against the other cars on the track, as HPDE's have a wide range of skill levels and equipment levels. Good luck, and have fun!

Andy1

Also good advice. I tell myself that after each sessio...."Next session, I'm going to slow down and focus on proper turn in and line!!!" Then I get behind the wheel and it all goes out the window. I'm still a big time rookie. All that being said I did recieve a lot of accolades from coaches and event organizers for my pace. I kept telling them my line wasn't all that pretty, I just push my car near its limit lol.

FASTFATBOY
08-16-2011, 09:46 AM
That big heavy Turd is ROLLIN'!

What Stoptech kit? Require 18 inch wheels? Edit I see the tire size.

Mine is about to be just like yours, our cars are very similar.

Mine is about to have about 380-400 to the wheels, I got c-6 brakes with Blaine ducts, Same springs , Koni da in front, SA in rear, 1le front bar, nt-05's, all roto joints in the rear, UMI frame connectors, UMI lca brackets and I'm a little heavier lol.

How do you like that pad combo? I have Ferodo Ds 2500 on front and Hawk Hp+ on rear. I found the limits of the fronts at the last event, with 75 more to the wheels I am gonna have to move up in the pad dept.

Car uncapped? Man its loud.

Fun passing snooty euro trash jockeys ain't it?

ninetres
08-16-2011, 10:25 AM
That big heavy Turd is ROLLIN'!

What Stoptech kit? Require 18 inch wheels?

Mine is about to be just like yours, our cars are very similar.

Mine is about to have about 380-400 to the wheels, I got c-6 brakes with Blaine ducts, Same springs and shocks, 1le front bar, nt-05's I'm a little heavier lol.

How do you like that pad combo? I have Ferodo Ds 2500 on front and Hawk Hp+ on rear.

Car uncapped? Man its loud.

Fun passing snooty euro trash jockeys ain't it?

13" stoptech kit running the stock SS 10 spokes.

Just ordered my Blaine ducts last night.

Not sure about pads as I didn't really get used to having brakes yet lol. Up until last week, I had old stock junk with street pads. I would stand on the peddle and prey coming into each corner lol. One of my goals at the next track day is to try to actually make good use of them. My buddy has the hawk DTC70s on his cobra and he wants to try carbotechs. His hawks bite so hard initially, even with light pressue that it trips his ABS everytime almost. The carbotechs have a lot of modulation.

My car has shorty headers, custom SS 2.5" y-pipe, and a custome 3" exhaust with a small magnaflow in the stock location. It is loud, but not THAT loud. It never went over the 103db limit that Infineon has.

FASTFATBOY
08-16-2011, 10:31 AM
By the end of the day, I felt I had completed each turn properly several times, I just didn't quite string them all together yet :)

I have the same issue, when I'm alone I pay more attention to where I am vs where I should be, with another car in sight I'm like a Damn rabid dog,all the stuff I am being taught and trying to do go straight out the Damn window. My field of vision narrows and my head goes up my butt.


Damn that's hard to break.

ninetres
08-16-2011, 08:39 PM
I have the same issue, when I'm alone I pay more attention to where I am vs where I should be, with another car in sight I'm like a Damn rabid dog,all the stuff I am being taught and trying to do go straight out the Damn window. My field of vision narrows and my head goes up my butt.


Damn that's hard to break.

Yea, I do that too. I'm working on NOT following the same line the car in fropnt of me is taking (unless its good of course). But I drive WAY better when I have my own section of the track. Thats why I want to get into time trials.....no door rubbing possibility either!

SIK02SS
08-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Thanks Chris!!! I appreciate all the feedback I can get! That was my 1st day @ Infineon.....second session. The first session was a bit damp, and I was just getting a feel for the track. I know the line waas junk in that session but it was the only footage I got outside of the cab. I definitly got better in the later sessions. I had a "coach" ride with me the session after this video, and he helped me with several corners with the tips you mentioned. I have ~7 total track days behind the wheel, all of the others are at buttonwillow. I will be back at buttonwillow on 9/17 with NCRC, in the point by group running 1cw. I expect a lot of traffic though.

Mods:

~375whp, 3.73 gear, fullweight.
Nitto 275/40/17 NT01s (usually start cold around 35psi front, 33psi rear each session. We take temps too and the only issue is too little negative camber up front)
Stoptech front brake kit, XP12 fronts, XP8 rear carbotechs
Koni 4/4s
Strano springs/sways
UMI subframes
UMI rotojoint panhard

I think thats about it. I'm hoping to get the Blaine ducts on before 9/17.

Cool. Good job still, Infineon is a tough track to learn bc of all the small quirks it takes to get it right...and when you get it right in one car, it's slightly different in another car (mostly at the carousel entrance and T7). Your tire pressures are too high IMO. Those are probably getting hot at 40+, way too high. Bleed those down so they are 33-35psi hot. I've ran NT-01s on my similarly prepped Camaro and started around 28psi cold and once hot after the first session brought them down to the 33-35 range, and yea..neg camber is an issue for us big time! I might be at the Buttonwillow NCRC day, PM me as it gets closer and I can give you a hand

ninetres
08-17-2011, 10:15 PM
Cool. Good job still, Infineon is a tough track to learn bc of all the small quirks it takes to get it right...and when you get it right in one car, it's slightly different in another car (mostly at the carousel entrance and T7). Your tire pressures are too high IMO. Those are probably getting hot at 40+, way too high. Bleed those down so they are 33-35psi hot. I've ran NT-01s on my similarly prepped Camaro and started around 28psi cold and once hot after the first session brought them down to the 33-35 range, and yea..neg camber is an issue for us big time! I might be at the Buttonwillow NCRC day, PM me as it gets closer and I can give you a hand

Will do. The only reason it seemed the tire pressure was close was because we take temp readings of internal tire temperature with a needle in the middle, inner, and outer edges. The temps were pretty even across the tire which tells us "we think" that the pressure is correct. If it was too high wouldn't it be much hotter in the middle?

FASTFATBOY
08-17-2011, 11:01 PM
My Nt-05's start feeling greasy when the pressure gets too high, I really start fighting the car

DO those tire bleeder valvestem deals work or do I need to start using nitrogen?

ninetres
08-18-2011, 12:40 AM
My Nt-05's start feeling greasy when the pressure gets too high, I really start fighting the car

DO those tire bleeder valvestem deals work or do I need to start using nitrogen?

Never heard of the bleeders. Nitrogen is cool because the temps don't fluxute really. Look into the tire temp needles. My buddy has one. They aren't cheap....but they help you dial in what PSI keeps the tire temperature even across the tread. For instance, if the center is reading hotter than the edges, this tells you there is too much air in the tire. Pretty nifty. If nothing else it makes you look uber high tech at the track hahaha

SIK02SS
08-18-2011, 11:23 AM
You can also get an infrared one for pretty cheap at harbor freight and other places.

Yes and no. For example when I ran Hoosier A6s on the Corvette, Hoosier wanted us to run them at 32-35 hot. I ran mine at 28 (at most, and often lower) hot. I would still come in with a 10 degree spread from inside to outside of tire on all 4. A lot plays into alignment and driving style. If you're spinning the tires in the rear off on corners then you need to look at tire pressure and toe. if the car feels good in the beginning of sessions and towards the middle-end it's becoming harder and harder to get it to turn in, your front pressures are too high (on both slow speed and high speed corners). Tire temps are gauge of whats going on, not an end all be all (unless you are completely over-heating the tires, then you have a lot that needs looking at)

Andy1
08-18-2011, 01:23 PM
I would avoid the infrared temp gauges for this application. They are easily infuenced by adjacent exhaust systems, radiators and lines, and rotors/calipers, and can give false information. Additionally, the surface of the tire cools rapidly. The probe style gets under the cool layer and provides more accurate data, IMO.

Monitoring the tire temp profiles is a must for getting the right setup for a particular car for a particular track. I check temps in three places across the tire (and tire pressures) immediately upon pitting, every time, regardless (durring practice of course). What you'll learn is that a track setup (camber, toe, pressures, etc) will differ from a street setup. There's no gospel regarding tire pressures; they are what works for you and your car.

Andy1

gnx7
08-22-2011, 01:19 AM
I'd say for your 1st time there you did well! Especially with DOT "street" tires and 375rwhp. What does the car weigh without you in it? Infineon is a tight track. Thunderhill or Laguna Seca are more HP tracks and less technical than Infineon.

I hope to "catch you" later this year on track. I just bought this track toy: mildly built 438ci dry sump LS7 powered 2500lb RX-7, GForce 4spd dog box, 8.8" IRS Cobra diff out back, 18x12's all around, big brakes, built to the hilt. Ran low 1.40's at Infineon on the old motor that had 100hp less! I can't wait to learn how to drive this car!

ninetres
08-22-2011, 02:43 AM
I'd say for your 1st time there you did well! Especially with DOT "street" tires and 375rwhp. What does the car weigh without you in it? Infineon is a tight track. Thunderhill or Laguna Seca are more HP tracks and less technical than Infineon.

I hope to "catch you" later this year on track. I just bought this track toy: mildly built 438ci dry sump LS7 powered 2500lb RX-7, GForce 4spd dog box, 8.8" IRS Cobra diff out back, 18x12's all around, big brakes, built to the hilt. Ran low 1.40's at Infineon on the old motor that had 100hp less! I can't wait to learn how to drive this car!

Mother of god lol. BAD ASS CAR. Definitly woulod be my choice if I built a purpose built road car. You will have no problem "catching" me lol. My car is full weight. I have not weighed it. The only things I have remved are the spare, jack, and rear seat back. My racing seats probably saved 15 or so lbs too. But I weigh a good 220lbs, and I always have a 200lb passenger with me. I'm SURE we are north of 3800lbs wet, and I usually race with a full tank.

ninetres
08-22-2011, 02:45 AM
I still can't get over your car! So clean! Bring it to Buttonwillow on Sept 17th with NCRC. Its only $100 and I believe there is still room in the open passing and race class!!!! Do it!!!

yessir
08-22-2011, 04:40 AM
that rx7 needs a tag and headlights.......would love that as a daily driver lol

SIK02SS
08-22-2011, 12:04 PM
I still can't get over your car! So clean! Bring it to Buttonwillow on Sept 17th with NCRC. Its only $100 and I believe there is still room in the open passing and race class!!!! Do it!!!

I just checked yesterday, Open is closed but Race is still open