Bag on the 10 bolt
08-17-2011, 04:50 AM
#1
Bag on the 10 bolt Ya know I hear all of these stories about how bad the factory 10 bolt is. Axels braking, Posi Units taking a dump, yokes shaved clean, reluctor snaped, bearings came apart, and so on.....
I have read about these types of issues from every angle except one. Has the 10 bolt housing busted, cracked or otherwise failed? I have not read of any.
Then why not not spend a grand on Moser axels, Detroit Locker, new bearings, seals, stud girdle and Motive gears and see if that holds? If it does then you have saved 1500 bucks! Thats big money in my world.
It seams to me that everything that fails is internal and not a failure of the housing itself. I am inclined to think that if the internals were built similar to the 9" or 12" with a complete list of beefy components and of course proper angle and suspension tuning then it should stay together for a HP range WELL above the factory specs.
Granted I am not talking about 1000HP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 700HP at the wheels should last for a considerably long time if not indefinatley.
What are your thoughts? Have you read of a cracked or busted housing on a factory 10 bolt? Not internals, but the externals if you will. Let me hear about it or read about it.
Chad
I have read about these types of issues from every angle except one. Has the 10 bolt housing busted, cracked or otherwise failed? I have not read of any.
Then why not not spend a grand on Moser axels, Detroit Locker, new bearings, seals, stud girdle and Motive gears and see if that holds? If it does then you have saved 1500 bucks! Thats big money in my world.
It seams to me that everything that fails is internal and not a failure of the housing itself. I am inclined to think that if the internals were built similar to the 9" or 12" with a complete list of beefy components and of course proper angle and suspension tuning then it should stay together for a HP range WELL above the factory specs.
Granted I am not talking about 1000HP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 700HP at the wheels should last for a considerably long time if not indefinatley.
What are your thoughts? Have you read of a cracked or busted housing on a factory 10 bolt? Not internals, but the externals if you will. Let me hear about it or read about it.
Chad
08-17-2011, 05:55 AM
#2
buddy you really need to search on this topic, 700 hp and 10 bolts just dont go together.read about some of the guys that have built up there 10 bolts,and then see what they say after,by the time your done with that junk 10 bolt you could spend a lil more and get something that will be worth it.trust me if there was a good way to beef up the 10 bolt dont you think we all would have went that route,12 bolts and 9 inchs are not cheap.what your talking about doing you can pretty much buy a 12 bolt, i will let someone else explain the fails of the 10 bolt rear ,besides things are weak ,small,and can be killed with 300 hp let alone 700, good luck man, your best bet is to keep an eye on the parts section ,
08-17-2011, 06:41 AM
#5
Ya know I hear all of these stories about how bad the factory 10 bolt is. Axels braking, Posi Units taking a dump, yokes shaved clean, reluctor snaped, bearings came apart, and so on.....
I have read about these types of issues from every angle except one. Has the 10 bolt housing busted, cracked or otherwise failed? I have not read of any.
Then why not not spend a grand on Moser axels, Detroit Locker, new bearings, seals, stud girdle and Motive gears and see if that holds? If it does then you have saved 1500 bucks! Thats big money in my world.
It seams to me that everything that fails is internal and not a failure of the housing itself. I am inclined to think that if the internals were built similar to the 9" or 12" with a complete list of beefy components and of course proper angle and suspension tuning then it should stay together for a HP range WELL above the factory specs.
Granted I am not talking about 1000HP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 700HP at the wheels should last for a considerably long time if not indefinatley.
What are your thoughts? Have you read of a cracked or busted housing on a factory 10 bolt? Not internals, but the externals if you will. Let me hear about it or read about it.
Chad
I have read about these types of issues from every angle except one. Has the 10 bolt housing busted, cracked or otherwise failed? I have not read of any.
Then why not not spend a grand on Moser axels, Detroit Locker, new bearings, seals, stud girdle and Motive gears and see if that holds? If it does then you have saved 1500 bucks! Thats big money in my world.
It seams to me that everything that fails is internal and not a failure of the housing itself. I am inclined to think that if the internals were built similar to the 9" or 12" with a complete list of beefy components and of course proper angle and suspension tuning then it should stay together for a HP range WELL above the factory specs.
Granted I am not talking about 1000HP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 700HP at the wheels should last for a considerably long time if not indefinatley.
What are your thoughts? Have you read of a cracked or busted housing on a factory 10 bolt? Not internals, but the externals if you will. Let me hear about it or read about it.
Chad
I understand Your thoughts and that thinking is sometimes hard to dispell. Lets discuss what actually happens to the 10-bolt or any small lightweight housing. Hopefully I can explain it in a way You can wrap Your arms around preventing an expensive build that can end in lost money.
Rear end failures rarely result in a housing that is destroyed although that also happens at times. The failure whether it be ring an pinion, bearings or even axle splines are normally a result of the housing being overpowered causing flex that typically cant be seen, this flex changes the relationship of the critical setup of the ring and pinion creating a whine if the flex was minimal or failure if it was excessive.
The choices of performance rearends revolve around many things, here are a few... The amount of material the mfg used around a bearing to keep it in its intended place. The outside diameter of the bearings. The inside diameter allowing for a larger pinion shaft or a larger spool and axle shaft. The distance between bearings ie from the forward bearing on a pinion to the rearmost bearing, the more distance between the two the greater the potential for strength. The OD of the ring gear! Availablility of aftermarket performance parts. Cost of aftermarket parts.
The torque arm on the fbody cars adds additional stress to the rearend which is a topic for another discussion of the light duty 10-bolt.
With this information, some in depth research, time and thought hopefully You can make an informed decision to spend Your money wisely.
Carl
08-17-2011, 06:12 PM
#6
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My 10 bolts was still going about 6 months ago ( 77k miles) pulling 1.64 in the 60 ft at this point I install a 9 " but I will admit it was not cheep
app cost on my 10 bolt
ta cover/stud kit (140.00)
Detroit locker (525.00)
3.73 (200.00)
mos axles (250.00)
welded tubes (nc)
mt drag radials (300.00)
air bags (50.00)
adjust ta on body mount(250.00)
relocate brackets (nc)
adjust lca (200.00)
adj phb (100.00)
all labor (nc)
all added a nickel and a dime at a time
good luck, Johnny
app cost on my 10 bolt
ta cover/stud kit (140.00)
Detroit locker (525.00)
3.73 (200.00)
mos axles (250.00)
welded tubes (nc)
mt drag radials (300.00)
air bags (50.00)
adjust ta on body mount(250.00)
relocate brackets (nc)
adjust lca (200.00)
adj phb (100.00)
all labor (nc)
all added a nickel and a dime at a time
good luck, Johnny
08-18-2011, 12:02 AM
#7
I have an Auto.
Thanks Carl for the explanation and believe me I understand where your coming from. The heat from a hot track, banging gears or the launch could make the housing flex, twist or swell causing a thousands of an inch in movement which could make even the toughest components fail so I aggree with you 100%.
For my application I will have a motor making almost 600 to the wheels (naturally, no spray) I will be usiing a 4200 stall and I will take the car to the track probably less than a dozen times a year using drag radials. The rest of the time it will see street use and if someone wants to test me it would be from a roll and not a stop considering I will have on street tires and not strip tires. The car is not a race car, it will be a mid 10 second street car, golf car, church car and show car. With these perameters in mind I think the $1000 to fully gut and rebuild with tougher, tighter components is worth a try.
I plan on posting up what I put in it as well as the cost plus the performance of it. If someday it takes a **** then I will post that up as well and be a staunch advocate for not spending the money, in the mean time 1000 is better than 2500.
I still want to hear if anyone knows first hand of the casing failing.
Thanks again Carl, people like you make these forums worth their weight in gold!
Chad
Thanks Carl for the explanation and believe me I understand where your coming from. The heat from a hot track, banging gears or the launch could make the housing flex, twist or swell causing a thousands of an inch in movement which could make even the toughest components fail so I aggree with you 100%.
For my application I will have a motor making almost 600 to the wheels (naturally, no spray) I will be usiing a 4200 stall and I will take the car to the track probably less than a dozen times a year using drag radials. The rest of the time it will see street use and if someone wants to test me it would be from a roll and not a stop considering I will have on street tires and not strip tires. The car is not a race car, it will be a mid 10 second street car, golf car, church car and show car. With these perameters in mind I think the $1000 to fully gut and rebuild with tougher, tighter components is worth a try.
I plan on posting up what I put in it as well as the cost plus the performance of it. If someday it takes a **** then I will post that up as well and be a staunch advocate for not spending the money, in the mean time 1000 is better than 2500.
I still want to hear if anyone knows first hand of the casing failing.
Thanks again Carl, people like you make these forums worth their weight in gold!
Chad
Last edited by ss4chad; 08-18-2011 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Grammar
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08-18-2011, 01:00 AM
#8
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You can put $1300 into your 10 bolt with new axles, bearings, gears, carrier and cross your fingers it will last or spend $2400 on a 9" fully optioned and never worry about it.
The components of a 10 bolt can't be build large/strong enough to hold, 10 bolts in pick-up trucks seem to last longer and less prone to failure, the F-Body just puts a unique twist to them... that's why the 12 bolts begin to whine as they grow older.
Some people can make a 10 bolt last on street tires and not going to the track but once a year, but it's not going to survive forever, nor will it make it that long on a pair of cheater slicks doing john force burn outs and 1.5 60's
You can try to make the 10 bolt last if you don't believe the internet, I don't trust everything I read on the web either.
The components of a 10 bolt can't be build large/strong enough to hold, 10 bolts in pick-up trucks seem to last longer and less prone to failure, the F-Body just puts a unique twist to them... that's why the 12 bolts begin to whine as they grow older.
Some people can make a 10 bolt last on street tires and not going to the track but once a year, but it's not going to survive forever, nor will it make it that long on a pair of cheater slicks doing john force burn outs and 1.5 60's
You can try to make the 10 bolt last if you don't believe the internet, I don't trust everything I read on the web either.
08-18-2011, 02:09 AM
#10
like i said keep your eye on the part section , do not put a grand into a 10 bolt, with winter headed this way you will see some deals start to pop up, my buddy got his 12 bolt for 1400 ,he also had to drive about 10 hours,but still was everything he wanted and needed. you spend your money how you want it ,but it would sure be nice to put that 600 hp down to the ground,not only that you will have more gear options if you wanted somethig bigger than 4.10. good luck man
08-18-2011, 06:27 PM
#14
like i said keep your eye on the part section , do not put a grand into a 10 bolt, with winter headed this way you will see some deals start to pop up, my buddy got his 12 bolt for 1400 ,he also had to drive about 10 hours,but still was everything he wanted and needed. you spend your money how you want it ,but it would sure be nice to put that 600 hp down to the ground,not only that you will have more gear options if you wanted somethig bigger than 4.10. good luck man
Chad
08-18-2011, 07:25 PM
#15
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a guy that owns a dyno shop has a 2002 black ws6 with 514 hp and 472tq and has the stock 10 bolt but put in new bearing 3.73 yukons or someother brand and c clip eliminators just incase the axel decides to come out so if your planning on having a 600 or 550 hp and 500tq ls1 just buy new bearing and cclip eleminators and bearings and change the rear end oil every 60000 miles and it should last a long time and he has a 4000 yank stall buy the way with a shift kit running 335 tires in the back
