Corday

Hello,

This is driving me nuts and i cant eat, breathe or sleep without this nagging on my mind..

I had the engine bored/honed to 3,905" by a professional engine mechanic..
He then assembled the engine with the new components, including:

• Federal mogul bearings (main, rod and camshaft) with STD clearance
• Thunder Racing ported oil pump
• Thunder Racing Camshaft
• JE Forged pistons & rings
• LS7 Lifters
• Chromemoly pushrods
• YellaTerra roller rockers
• Patriot performance heads
• LS2 Timing chain
• All new gaskets & bolts

Symptoms

1. 35-40psi cold idle
2. 15-18psi warm idle - wont go past 25psi revving
3. No oil flowing over rockers when engine is running (should it?)
4. No strange sounds, no metal in oil

Actions taken

1. Replace oil-pump to Melling with high pressure spring and new o-ring
   - No effect (was extra super-careful with o-ring)
2. Replace Camshaft retainer plate
   - No effect
3. RTV between oil-pump and block oil-gallery
   - No effect
4. Install mechanical oil pressure gauge
   - Same readings using both a mechanical and electrical autometer gauge.
5. Try different oil grades and filters (K&N, ACDelco, N/A)
   - No effect (slightly higher pressure with Mobil1 5w50)
6. Remove rear cover and check Rear oil gallery plug
   - Looked ok, except that it doesnt look exactly the same as stock. Its end at the rear of the block is longer, so its sticking out. The manual says it should sit 0,8 to 1,4mm INSIDE the block from Flush, but that would be impossible with this plug.. However comparing them i still think the o-ring would seal fine in the block..
   - Checked upper rear main oil galleries seal on rear cover gasket, but looks fine

So i am at the rear oil gallery plug now, but i have a feeling replacing this wont be the cure...

Where would you suggest i go from here? Pulling the engine is something i really didnt wanna do again.. However right now im clueless and cant think of any other things to check before getting my hands real dirty again...

Engine-shop said there were tight bearing clearances and he was "sure" this was not my issue.. But what other components could be involved, other than the ones i've already replaced/checked?

Please help! I am sick of this issue never going away... Its getting real expensive too...

Corday

Here is a photo showing the difference between the oil gallery plugs.

The stock and new have exactly the same outer diameter, however the new has a 2,3mm longer end.

usmcz28

iTrader: (3)

You should see some oil at the top end, me thinks perhaps you have either a missing oil galley plug or a Cam bearing in wrong.

IIRC there is an oil galley plug many builders forget to put back in up front by the timing chain.

Oh and no RTV between the oil pump and block, i'd bet money unless it was anerobic sealant that sealer is still gooey in there and that may cause some issues if it gets sucked up into the block and plugs a path the oil takes.

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

I am having some of the EXACT same symptoms on my forged C5 corvette.

The only thing I see different with our symptoms are that my hot oil pressure can get a little lower (11-13 psi). Mine doesn't get over 25 psi no matter what RPM.

I've very anxious to figure it out and I am in the middle of replacing the oil pump and cam retainer plate. After reading this, it doesn't seem like it's going to fix it.

usmcz28

iTrader: (3)

I also want to say someone had an issue with their relief spring sticking open. If you search this area you should see the thread about it. I think others have checked the Oil Pick up tube and found that the Rubber O-ring was pinched or not seated right.

There can only be so many things wrong with it........Have you checked your bearing clearances?

Corday

usmcz28 - Thanks for input! I've checked all oil gallery plugs, and none is missing.. I wish it was something simple like this :/ Cam bearing is a possibility, but cannot check this until engine is out of the car.. I can securely scratch any pump or oil-ring related issues off the list, because i first replaced the o-ring with no success, then i opened it up again and replaced pump to a Melling and a new o-ring with exactly the same result.. Bearing clearances is a big possibility, but i guess i need to get it all apart first

02blackbeauty19 - Hey! We should definitely exchange progress/experience... I noticed you also put alot of effort, money and work into your car, and is just as eager to find the solution as me. This is tearing me apart :/ Everything that should have been fun with the car, is now just a big pain and grief..

I have made the final decision tonight - to pull the engine and finally get it done right. As you say, there can only be so many things that could go wrong, and as i need this problem to be solved once and for all, this seems to be the way to go..

Here are three questions, which could hopefully help clear this up..

1. Should i be able to see oil "flowing" on the rockers (with engine running) or would there just be an invisible "mist" of oil? Because when i touch the rocker - its dry and not one drop of liquid oil. Sometimes i can see oil at the bottom of the head where the rockers are, but only very very little.

2. Any opinion on the rear oil gallery plug? Is the white version a revision of the old, or is it just the wrong plug?

3.What happens if a lifter is mounted with its "oil input hole" pointing in the wrong direction? I understand the rockers would not get oil, but how would it affect pressure?

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Yeah, I am very eager to find the issue and fix it. I am waiting on a new oil pump to arrive and I have already replaced the cam retainer plate. I was hoping to put it back together and see what it does, but now I'm thinking if it would just be easier to pull the motor now and inspect the bearings.
Who knows...

usmcz28

iTrader: (3)

1. Yes you should see some oil on the top end when it is running

2. The rear Gallery plug is a new revised one and is slightly different than the old one. There have been several threads regarding it and if you look at TSP's web site they show you the new one.

3. As far as I know it shouldn't matter how they are oriented as long as they go in smoothly and do not have too much resistance when installing them.

Have you tried checking your oil pressure with a mechanical gauge?

Corday

Ok thanks!! Scratching Oil-gallery plug from list

Yeah, i have the Stock gauge, A mechanical gauge and an Autometer electrical gauge all connected at the same time - all showing same readings..

Looking at photos of the block, i see the feeder-channel to each lifter enters from bottom (6-o´clock)... The forced orientation of the lifters (plastic holder) then puts oil-hole at either left or right side, not bottom... So, i guess that settles the Lifter possibility, and can then be scratched off the list aswell.. They also went in like a stick in butter

As i understand it - whats left now is the following:

• Cam bearings
• Main bearings
• Rod bearings

Dull to say the least, but what has to be done, shall be done..

Any more ideas/possibilities are most welcome!

383vert

iTrader: (4)

Damn it... I was hoping to find the answer to my problem, too. Same symptoms...
Please, post results of your search...thanks

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Someone pull their motor and inspect before I do

5.3LJimmy

iTrader: (10)

I have seen a couple engines machined by two different shops with very little LS experience that had the same problem. The cam bearings were installed flush to the bulkhead and not driven to the center. This is the way they are installed in the old SBC, but if this is done on an LS it leaves a crack between the bearing and oil galley resulting in low or no oil pressure.

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

So would that just be a spun cam bearing in, for example, my motor that has been in for 4 years? I guess so.

5.3LJimmy

iTrader: (10)

Yes I have seen this mostly in iron blocks though. Not that the bearing actually spun but walked forward and exposed the oil galley.

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Gotcha.
I wish I could just pull my camshaft and see it

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

This^^^ I chased my *** on a customers car. When he said the shop that did it iwas like. they build wicked old schools tho. The cam, rod, berings where way out of spec also. dam near .070!!! He put straight 50w and hot was like 10-11 psi.

brett walker

iTrader: (6)

I'm having the EXACT same issue right now with my new motor. 30-40lbs at cold idle. The warmer the car gets the less oil pressure it has. Like you I've checked with several different gauges, changed the o-ring in the oil pump. With the same results. A seemingly never ending chase. I sure hope it's not the bearing issue, but at this point I'm almost positive that's what it is after reading this thread. I'm goin to call my engine builder tomorrow and see if he wants to try and diagnose it from here. I'm honestly just fed up with it. It's been built for about 4 months and I've been chasing it every chance I get(not much the way I work) and I'm still in the same boat.

02blackbeauty19

iTrader: (22)

Brett, is yoir engine builder local? If you find out real soon, holler at me and let me know what y'all find. I'm debating weather or not I should put the front of the motor back together or just pull it out to inspect.

NC98Z

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like walking cam bearings. Been there done that twice!! Hotter it gets the less pressure you have. Mine did it on a brand new SB.

Corday

Update - Today i pulled the engine after lots and lots of work removing everything else around it..

THANKS for the great info 5.3LJimmy!! This engine-shop-guy had never seen an LS1 before, but he has built loads and loads of old engines - So this is exactly the situation you are describing, and im now 97% certain he didnt know about the cam-bearing!

I have the engine upside down and removed the oilpan.. Have not inspected much yet, because I didnt read your post until just now.. I will make sure to check the camshaft bearing ASAP tomorrow morning! You brought me hope again!

Yay!

I will be back with a report first thing tomorrow after i inspected!