Failed emissions What now?
03-01-2003, 01:07 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2001CamaroGuy:
<strong>
I tried a number of different idle speeds and at 1200 RPM the limit came down to only 3 or 4 times the max. If you bring your idle up you will most likely pass.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I live in Toronto Canada.
What was your idle speed when you failed 10 times the limit?
I may try an idle of 1200rpm (if I can get away with it at the emissions place) and see if that gets me over the hump. I'll also change the oil beforehand as well.
It would be cool to pass with this cam though hehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Thanks,
Chris
<strong>
I tried a number of different idle speeds and at 1200 RPM the limit came down to only 3 or 4 times the max. If you bring your idle up you will most likely pass.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I live in Toronto Canada.
What was your idle speed when you failed 10 times the limit?
I may try an idle of 1200rpm (if I can get away with it at the emissions place) and see if that gets me over the hump. I'll also change the oil beforehand as well.
It would be cool to pass with this cam though hehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Thanks,
Chris
03-01-2003, 01:26 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? I'd like to know how this works out for you. My car doesn't need testing this year but it's going to be inevitable. I would like to learn all the tips/tricks to pass an Ontario emissions test. "Hotrod status?" That's the first time I've heard that classification.
03-01-2003, 11:13 PM
#3
Re: Failed emissions What now? If they are just doing tailpipe and not OBD2 put a switch on the air pump to let it run at idle. That will knock the idle HC way down, problem is if they are driving the car during the test and you leave the air pump running it may (or may not) damage the cats on the rollers depending how much load and how long they hold it there.
If your AIR is off the car all you can do is try to raise the idle or play with the timing. You have a lot of unburnt fuel to deal with at idle..
<small>[ March 01, 2003, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: kp ]</small>
If your AIR is off the car all you can do is try to raise the idle or play with the timing. You have a lot of unburnt fuel to deal with at idle..
<small>[ March 01, 2003, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: kp ]</small>
03-01-2003, 11:50 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? you need to find out what the max idle speed is. here in TX its 1200 rpm or less. i tested w/ the T1 @ 850 = failed. went back @ 1175, passed easily. its that lope thats killing you HC. higher idle ='s smoother idle.
03-02-2003, 12:36 AM
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Failed emissions What now? Hey guys,
Went and tested the car today with mixed results hehe.
I pretty much figured I wouldnt pass with the cam in the car: 230/230 112LSA .605 lift Comp XE-R.
Good news is I qualified for hot rod status. (Gives me more room with the limits and I dont need any emissions equipment (though I did have cats on for the test)
I passed the 40kmh test without any problems.
Here are the results:
Limit (for hotrods):
HC ppm: 278
CO% 2.20
NO ppm 2898
My 40kmh readings:
HC ppm: 86
CO% .46
NO ppm: 9
Great numbers for the 40kmh test...
Now for the idle test:
Limit (For hotrods):
HC ppm: 300
CO%: 1.50
NO ppm: NA
My results:
HC ppm: 1104 (DOH!! almost 3 times the limit hehe)
CO%: 1.46 (Squeezed a pass)
My idle was at 975 for the test, cats were good and hot coolant temp around ~195-205. Car still has a shake at idle at this rpm. Looks like misfires and big cam overlap are causing the car to run rich failing HC.
What can I do before swapping in a smaller cam? Would raising my idle to say 1200rpm cut my HC output enough to pass? Any other tricks I can use to reduce HC output? MAFT tweaks etc? (Say leaning out the base or something?)
It would be cool if I could get this sucker to pass with the 230/230 cam in it.
If it doesnt pass I think I can get a conditional pass which will last one year.
If not I am going to have to swap in a smaller cam... (I was thinking about a 222/222 115LSA cam with 0 advance) Keep my peak around 6300rpm...
Your thoughts are appreciated...
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ March 01, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
Went and tested the car today with mixed results hehe.
I pretty much figured I wouldnt pass with the cam in the car: 230/230 112LSA .605 lift Comp XE-R.
Good news is I qualified for hot rod status. (Gives me more room with the limits and I dont need any emissions equipment (though I did have cats on for the test)
I passed the 40kmh test without any problems.
Here are the results:
Limit (for hotrods):
HC ppm: 278
CO% 2.20
NO ppm 2898
My 40kmh readings:
HC ppm: 86
CO% .46
NO ppm: 9
Great numbers for the 40kmh test...
Now for the idle test:
Limit (For hotrods):
HC ppm: 300
CO%: 1.50
NO ppm: NA
My results:
HC ppm: 1104 (DOH!! almost 3 times the limit hehe)
CO%: 1.46 (Squeezed a pass)
My idle was at 975 for the test, cats were good and hot coolant temp around ~195-205. Car still has a shake at idle at this rpm. Looks like misfires and big cam overlap are causing the car to run rich failing HC.
What can I do before swapping in a smaller cam? Would raising my idle to say 1200rpm cut my HC output enough to pass? Any other tricks I can use to reduce HC output? MAFT tweaks etc? (Say leaning out the base or something?)
It would be cool if I could get this sucker to pass with the 230/230 cam in it.
If it doesnt pass I think I can get a conditional pass which will last one year.
If not I am going to have to swap in a smaller cam... (I was thinking about a 222/222 115LSA cam with 0 advance) Keep my peak around 6300rpm...
Your thoughts are appreciated...
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ March 01, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
03-02-2003, 12:49 AM
#6
Re: Failed emissions What now? Raising the idle will cut emissions A LOT! The only question is if you get too high, will the testing place catch on too what you are doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
I did the same thing as you (only don't have cats). I was only slightly over at cruse (say...1.5 times the max). BUT.....the idle did not go so well......I'm something like 10 times the limit at idle (I was kind of proud of that) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
I tried a number of different idle speeds and at 1200 RPM the limit came down to only 3 or 4 times the max. If you bring your idle up you will most likely pass.
Where do you live? Some states (AZ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> ) does not do a tailpipe test on OBD2 cars. They just check for post CAT O2 codes.
Chris
I did the same thing as you (only don't have cats). I was only slightly over at cruse (say...1.5 times the max). BUT.....the idle did not go so well......I'm something like 10 times the limit at idle (I was kind of proud of that) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
I tried a number of different idle speeds and at 1200 RPM the limit came down to only 3 or 4 times the max. If you bring your idle up you will most likely pass.
Where do you live? Some states (AZ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> ) does not do a tailpipe test on OBD2 cars. They just check for post CAT O2 codes.
Chris
03-02-2003, 12:53 AM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? Hmmmm.....
HotRod status eh? Is there such a thing just in Canada? I would like to know if there's anything like that in the U.S. that would give me a little more leeway in the emissions department.
As for your other problem, I would THINK your misfires are hurting you pretty bad - but considering you're like 3 TIMES OVER the limit, I really don't know that leaning it out and getting rid of the misfires is going to help. I have a cam almost the size of yours and at idle I can smell a lot of unburned fuel through the exhaust due to the heavy overlap.
I don't know that a 230 cam has a chance at passing an emissions test, but it'd be nice if someone has information otherwise....
HotRod status eh? Is there such a thing just in Canada? I would like to know if there's anything like that in the U.S. that would give me a little more leeway in the emissions department.
As for your other problem, I would THINK your misfires are hurting you pretty bad - but considering you're like 3 TIMES OVER the limit, I really don't know that leaning it out and getting rid of the misfires is going to help. I have a cam almost the size of yours and at idle I can smell a lot of unburned fuel through the exhaust due to the heavy overlap.
I don't know that a 230 cam has a chance at passing an emissions test, but it'd be nice if someone has information otherwise....
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03-02-2003, 06:02 AM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? Missfires are raw gas being pumped into exhaust system, leaning mixture will only aggravate the problem, higher idle will help but 230 is big for test time. My plan is to just keep SES light out and not get sniffed!
03-02-2003, 09:04 AM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? Unfortunately we have to sniff regardless of SES light.
I have a couple of tricks I am going to try by the weekend. (2 liters of methonal in a 1/4 tank of gas, 1175rpm idle, reinstall my AIR pump and an oil change.
Hopefully that will do it heheh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
I have a couple of tricks I am going to try by the weekend. (2 liters of methonal in a 1/4 tank of gas, 1175rpm idle, reinstall my AIR pump and an oil change.
Hopefully that will do it heheh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
03-02-2003, 01:15 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? Retarding the ignition timing greatly will also really help, but you won't want to leave it that way or you take a big hit in power. I heard of one guy that flashed his PCM with a special setup just for passing emissions, then flashed it back! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
03-02-2003, 06:04 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? On the old Camaro, I used to lean out my Holley and retard the timing enough to make the headers glow... but it passed with flying colors <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Now I just have to plug it in and it reads for codes.
03-03-2003, 10:53 AM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by kp:
<strong> If they are just doing tailpipe and not OBD2 put a switch on the air pump to let it run at idle. That will knock the idle HC way down, problem is if they are driving the car during the test and you leave the air pump running it may (or may not) damage the cats on the rollers depending how much load and how long they hold it there.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ditto, just rig the air pump to stay on during the entire test.
<small>[ March 03, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</small>
<strong> If they are just doing tailpipe and not OBD2 put a switch on the air pump to let it run at idle. That will knock the idle HC way down, problem is if they are driving the car during the test and you leave the air pump running it may (or may not) damage the cats on the rollers depending how much load and how long they hold it there.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ditto, just rig the air pump to stay on during the entire test.
<small>[ March 03, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Pro Stock John ]</small>
03-03-2003, 11:47 AM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? I agree with many of the opinions here. Raise the idle, retard your timing, dump a couple bottles of gas line anti freeze in the tank, and make sure the cats are definitely hot enough to do their job. I have an 83 Monte with a 383 in it that went through cleaner then ever last year. It has a roller cam, 230/236 dur, 544/555 lift, on a 110 lobe separation. Passed like a champ with stricter limits then what your going for. Good luck!!
03-03-2003, 01:48 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Gives me hope hehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Gives me hope hehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
03-03-2003, 03:02 PM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? Let me know what works. I have the same problem with my 94 Formula. In my case I'm just going to throw a new cat on. They always pass with new cats. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<small>[ March 03, 2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Terry Burger ]</small>
<small>[ March 03, 2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Terry Burger ]</small>
03-06-2003, 07:57 AM
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Re: Failed emissions What now? Got buried under a foot of snow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Need to get to ARE to get my idle bumped before I retest. Hoping to retest in the next two weeks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'll keep you all posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
I'll keep you all posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
