View Full Version : SS vs. V


wcryan
09-14-2011, 03:18 PM
guy in town has a new Camaro SS completely stock. i'm almost 100% sure I will take him, but he wants to throw money down. What do you guys think? I think daddy bought him the car, so I really wana take his money

My mods:
Comp Cam
CAI
longtubes
shifter
muff delete (most girls have these too)
Driver mod

serik21
09-14-2011, 03:25 PM
they are heavy, if its the supercharged one than im not sure the reuglur v8 i pulled on with just exhuast and tune

SSmokd U
09-14-2011, 03:39 PM
You've got that one no sweat.

Derek98z
09-14-2011, 04:33 PM
Just an SS? From a dig? Poke around and make certain he didn't throw some nitrous on there or something lol

wcryan
09-14-2011, 04:40 PM
SS have the ls3 correct?

Onefast V
09-14-2011, 04:52 PM
SS have the ls3 correct?

yes unless its the automatic in which case it is an L99 and only makes 400hp

SoCA04V
09-14-2011, 05:50 PM
No Competition

wcryan
09-14-2011, 05:53 PM
I thought these things were supposed to be decently fast?

Onefast V
09-14-2011, 06:01 PM
I thought these things were supposed to be decently fast?

Heavy, Heavy, Heavy cars 3860 lbs.....

BudRacing
09-14-2011, 06:21 PM
Heavy, Heavy, Heavy cars 3860 lbs.....

... same weight we are.

Should be a good race if you can shift quickly enough. Autos are known for winning races.

The camaro in stock form is pretty unimpressive to say the least.

Onefast V
09-14-2011, 06:33 PM
... same weight we are.

Should be a good race if you can shift quickly enough. Autos are known for winning races.

The camaro in stock form is pretty unimpressive to say the least.

I know, but you're talking about a coupe vs. a sedan. I expect the sedan to weigh more. My point it that for a coupe, it is far from light. Plus with a cam and good tune you are putting out probably closer to 400rwhp vs. his 400 or 426 crank hp

07CTS-V
09-14-2011, 06:45 PM
If the SS is stock, it won't even be a race. With the average driver he's at best mid to high 13's in the quarter. I've tuned one three times, stock, headers and exhaust, and cammed. Even cammed it doesn't feel that impressive.

aurora40
09-14-2011, 07:36 PM
The SS's I've seen at the track are slow. Like high 13's low 14's slow.

The only problem is the V is slow too.

The upshot is the V is faster than most people expect (unless they've heard of the V), and the Camaro is slower than people expect. But they are both about the same speed.

I don't think I'd put too much money down on it, but ehh what the hell.

createnit
09-14-2011, 07:39 PM
I think you got him covered. just my opinion

ColeGraham
09-14-2011, 08:18 PM
From a dig, it will be interesting (he will get a big jump if its the A6). Since the Gen 5 and the V are both IRS, although the Gen5 is stronger, so it will be close-ish.

From a roll, V all day over the Camaro(M6 or A6). They weigh the same and you make more power. Just with LT and a Tune, I beat a Bone Stock A6 and M6 Camaro from a 60 roll. Once he add LTs and a Tune, it will be a much closer race. They LS3 is a very stout engine.

wcryan
09-14-2011, 08:21 PM
what are they M6's rated at the wheels?

ColeGraham
09-14-2011, 08:26 PM
what are they M6's rated at the wheels?

I have heard anywhere from 340-350 range for the M6, depending on the Dyno. A6 is normally in the 325-335 range.

Buddy of mine out here has a 10 SS with full bolt-ons, and pretty nice cam. He put done 440/450(IIRC) at a Performance Shop in SATX

wcryan
09-14-2011, 08:31 PM
bah.... I should be good

it just seems like every 3rd post people are kinda sketchy about it

i'll see if I can get a video

JNR_Design
09-14-2011, 09:09 PM
Yeah they are pretty heavy (real heavy for a "sports coupe") at 3860 lbs (mentioned) for a manual or 3913 lbs for an auto...looks like a 3.27:1 rear for Autos and 3.45:1 for SS manuals and don't know their chassis dynamics, but I'd say stock to stock, the manual SS should have a slight theoretical edge to the V but bet it would be close in real life; if it's an auto, then the V should have no problem beating one (not gonna be a "wasting on", but a clear winner).

Since you have mods and bet are pretty familiar with your car, I see no problem at all...But, when $$$ comes into the equation, then you have to really take a look at his to make sure he's not hiding something...why not just run for fun?

whazard
09-14-2011, 09:19 PM
I've beat 2 New camero's. One was an SS and the other I have no clue because it was completely shaved. the SS I beat from a roll at about 40 and won by a little more than a car and the other I beat from a 70 roll by about 2 cars. Only mods I had at the time were exhaust and intake.

If he is completely stock and you are cammed then I think you would waste him

wcryan
09-14-2011, 09:29 PM
Yeah they are pretty heavy (real heavy for a "sports coupe") at 3860 lbs (mentioned) for a manual or 3913 lbs for an auto...looks like a 3.27:1 rear for Autos and 3.45:1 for SS manuals and don't know their chassis dynamics, but I'd say stock to stock, the manual SS should have a slight theoretical edge to the V but bet it would be close in real life; if it's an auto, then the V should have no problem beating one (not gonna be a "wasting on", but a clear winner).

Since you have mods and bet are pretty familiar with your car, I see no problem at all...But, when $$$ comes into the equation, then you have to really take a look at his to make sure he's not hiding something...why not just run for fun?

I never had and never planned on it. But I was guessing I could beat him cause he was stock and I wasnt; then he threw out the money challenge. So then that really made me want to beat him.

And also all his friends though they knew so much about engines bla bla bla. I dont know much; and i'm not gonna claim I do. But these guys were just retarded

JNR_Design
09-14-2011, 09:33 PM
Oh, those kind...yeah, don't even give them the satisfaction then...

wcryan
09-14-2011, 11:25 PM
the next question is; how much should I try and get him to throw down. Cause I know he doesnt have much money. 100$?

adanieljohnson1
09-14-2011, 11:53 PM
I've raced both also... the M6 I took by halk a car from 40 to 80mph and the auto from a 40 roll to about 2 busses by 80mph and that was with my 275lbs friend in the car with me... I only had a muffler delete for both races...

catch2otwo
09-15-2011, 08:55 AM
the next question is; how much should I try and get him to throw down. Cause I know he doesnt have much money. 100$?

$0. Race him for bragging rights, worth more then a 100 bucks anyway.

RRsV
09-15-2011, 10:40 AM
$500 f*ck bragging rights!

wcryan
09-15-2011, 11:17 AM
If you see my picture thread. 100$ will fill my car up once. It's worth it. Hahaha

demang
09-15-2011, 01:45 PM
yea you will take him. In my stock v i have pulled on some from a roll. It was a m6 not auto.

Skidmarcx
09-15-2011, 02:11 PM
woop his ars :)

99CamVanillaTop
09-15-2011, 02:29 PM
I have heard anywhere from 340-350 range for the M6, depending on the Dyno. A6 is normally in the 325-335 range.

Buddy of mine out here has a 10 SS with full bolt-ons, and pretty nice cam. He put done 440/450(IIRC) at a Performance Shop in SATX

Sorry the manual 6s make more like 365-375. The l99s obviously make less around 345/350. I'm not sure about the newer 2012s autos But a tune on the l99 makes a world of dIfference. I dont even see how the OP could lose from a dig if his car is cam/tuned.

06vLo
09-16-2011, 01:39 AM
whoop his ass seabass......

Ekshail
09-16-2011, 09:32 AM
One of my neighbors has a '10 SS, but we never get a chance to race. Good luck.

lollygagger8
09-16-2011, 09:34 AM
Race him, and then after you beat him tell him to keep the $$ to buy him self some duct tape for his mouth.

JD03Cobra
09-16-2011, 10:24 AM
whoop his ass seabass......

Exactly! I've raced a few...always run away in 3rd gear and never lose. I'm only running Kooks...your cammed. Game over assuming you don't drive like a beotch.

ColeGraham
09-16-2011, 11:42 AM
Sorry the manual 6s make more like 365-375. The l99s obviously make less around 345/350. I'm not sure about the newer 2012s autos But a tune on the l99 makes a world of dIfference.

I highly highly doubt that a 100% bone stock Gen 5 makes ~370. That would only be a 14.85% parasitic loss through the drivetrain. Consider the average loss i have seen for LSx platforms is 20% to 25%. With a Tune, I can see a M6 Camaro making close to 360. But then with a tune, it would not be 100% stock...

I dont even see how the OP could lose from a dig if his car is cam/tuned.

Read more about dig racing and launching the V...and then you will understand...

and i didnt say he would lose, i said the Camaro would get the jump.

adanieljohnson1
09-16-2011, 03:17 PM
^^^what he said^^^

branland
09-16-2011, 03:28 PM
Let me know when.

JNR_Design
09-16-2011, 09:02 PM
I'm not saying they do make 370 rwhp, but remember GM has underrated their engines more than not and so I could see some of them (not all) making close to that with a manual...15% is pretty normal for an efficient drivetrain (like a manual) using good fluids and not being worn too bad and also depends on the dyno too, of course...Besides, that is such a general rule of thumb that really stops meaning anything after you start changing the engine dynamics of same vehicles (I know that's not the case, just saying)

I just can't believe how damn (overpriced) expensive those camaros are, as well as the challengers and stuff...Like to know who's all being able to buy these $40k+ cars (that are target audience)? Chit, I'm having a hard time justifying paying out $30k, lol, and would make me sick to spend that sort of cash to have it worth about $15k in a couple years.

ColeGraham
09-17-2011, 05:02 AM
I'm not saying they do make 370 rwhp, but remember GM has underrated their engines more than not and so I could see some of them (not all) making close to that with a manual...15% is pretty normal for an efficient drivetrain (like a manual) using good fluids and not being worn too bad and also depends on the dyno too, of course...Besides, that is such a general rule of thumb that really stops meaning anything after you start changing the engine dynamics of same vehicles (I know that's not the case, just saying)

GM (Ford and Dodge) have underrated their engines in the Past. But now all GM engines are SAE Certified to produce what is (or VERY close to it) advertised. I am not sure if Ford or Dodge do the same thing. As far as the efficiency of the drive line, I can not see any car no matter was fluids or how worn it is have a 15% parasitic loss. But you are right, the big factor will be the Dyno that the car is on.

The way I look at it, comparing your Dyno numbers is like comparing dick sizes. One, you're gay for doing it, and two, who gives a fuck if you don't/cant use it...

JNR_Design
09-17-2011, 03:25 PM
LOL, yeah on the dynos...One thing I've noticed on GM engines especially is they really start coming alive after being broken in, so maybe that has to do with higher numbers, who knows. Regardless of what they are putting out on the dyno though, they don't seem to be quite as good performance (stock) as they are cracked up to be. The nice thing though is those engines (as well as ours and other LS') can really be woken up relatively easily! Just a shame there is so much weight you have to deal with these days (not just the camaro, but I was amazed to see the curb weights of various vehicles, including cracker box imports!)...

Not sure their testing process (like if they pick one out at random or the manfucturer gives them one) anymore, but I wouldn't say they are way underrated like some in the past...Starting in 1972 they started giving 'net' figures with all accessories and such (vs. gross, engine only and there was a pretty large rated drop in nearly identical engines 71 to 72, but also that is when they started really getting choked shortly after) and IIRC they changed the testing method again more recently...

wcryan
09-17-2011, 05:36 PM
When would you guys say a LS motor is fully broken in?

JNR_Design
09-17-2011, 05:47 PM
This is by no means "scientific" and based mostly on my experiences, but a good guideline I'd think:

A lot of it depends on how it was driven/taken care of, but I'd say around 30,000 miles is a good point to consider an engine fully broken in, but around 10k miles seems to be the first point where it really starts breaking in IMO...But, I've also experienced ~60k miles that the engine really starts running really good (as far as being broken in)...

But, like I said a lot of it depends on how it's driven...Like if it's all city, stop and go, you'll get a lot of carbon buildup, where as all highway miles it may take longer and obviously if you're not keeping up on your oil changes, the engine will wear down faster and abusing it won't help either...

It used to be a rule of thumb was ~30k, IIRC and that seems about right (from the numerous cars I've owned since new and passing that point), but I've also noticed the engine passing a magic point of 60k, too and it seemed to be true on this Cadillac too as well as my GTO...I do/did do a lot of highway miles though, so that could be why the 'magic' point was extended.

And finally, even with automated assembly and machining, etc., there is a still a lot of tolerances between engines too, so I'd say it's an individual thing. But, regadles sof the exact point, there is a point that an engine gets fully broken in, with the rings, springs, cam (followers) and so on in a mating assembly...

Fuzzy_Wuzzy
09-19-2011, 12:54 AM
I just can't believe how damn (overpriced) expensive those camaros are, as well as the challengers and stuff...Like to know who's all being able to buy these $40k+ cars (that are target audience)? Chit, I'm having a hard time justifying paying out $30k, lol, and would make me sick to spend that sort of cash to have it worth about $15k in a couple years.

This in the forum for a car that was $50K+ when new.... or more if 09+...

granted many of us bought used...

wcryan
09-19-2011, 01:24 AM
I saw a couple 09's down to 40k. One had 7,800 miles.

JNR_Design
09-19-2011, 11:17 AM
This in the forum for a car that was $50K+ when new.... or more if 09+...

granted many of us bought used...

This is certainly true and I paid ~$28k for mine, IIRC (used obviously), but I would've felt ripped off had I paid the $54k the sticker price was :) To me, the V1 is about a high $30k-low $40k car and the V2 about a high $40k new, but obviously the MSRP is quite a bit higher...I just think cars (and trucks) are just way overpriced for what you get and how bad they depreciate.

I know things go up every year, but it's just jumped to craziness in the past few years, IMO. They just don't have the 'value' that you have to pay for anymore. I mean, it's always been you lose money after a new car purchase, but the cars (for the most part) were pretty affordable and felt like when you spent a little extra, you got a lot more...Now, it seems $30k gets you a average car and then there's a big jump to really nice ones. Everything has gotten more $$$ of course, but cars in particular have gotten ridiculous (and interest rates should not have bearing on prices, as you can afford more 'sticker' with a lower 'monthly', although that's not the point).

wcryan
09-19-2011, 12:24 PM
I'd rather risk a used car that I can still be able to evaluate and see in person than buy a new car and have the value depreciate down by somewhere around 25% in a year.

BudRacing
09-19-2011, 02:09 PM
I'd rather risk a used car that I can still be able to evaluate and see in person than buy a new car and have the value depreciate down by somewhere around 25% in a year.

Quoted for truth.

Sinistersilverado
09-28-2011, 07:45 PM
Run this guy and you'll be suprised. A buddy of mine was racing a new camaro ss. He was in his trans am that has headers/tune. I was in the back following in my V recording when i got bored out of my mind and flew by the camaro as my buddy and him were running. I only have mufflers lol.

54inches
09-28-2011, 10:53 PM
I have seen a few LS3s dyno in the HIGH 300s hp and run 1290s, but they are few and far between, most that I have seen run in the low to mid 13s....

Break-in, most seem to wake up around 3-5k miles.....

LANCE ATKINSON
09-28-2011, 11:22 PM
Forget about the numbers!! Just race him!!! Your gonna beat him! If its an A6 it will run approx 9.0s without a tune !! But make sure it aint tuned!! They pick up about 5 car lengths in a quarter with a tune! My tuned G8 put 2-3lengths on an A6 then we tuned it and it put about 3 on the g8! If its an m6 he prolly cant drive! Chance it!

EdmundGTP
09-29-2011, 01:22 PM
this race hasn't happened yet??

wcryan
09-29-2011, 04:03 PM
I've been stuck at work on overtime for 8 days straight. She's been sleeping in the garage

ColeGraham
09-29-2011, 05:16 PM
I've been stuck at work on overtime for 8 days straight. She's been sleeping in the garage

Ricer excuses...haha

06vLo
09-29-2011, 05:25 PM
Ricer excuses...haha

lol his muffler bearings are going bad too......plus hes low on turn signal fluid......

im ready to see this race... call in a day and make this shiet happen.....lol:burn:

wcryan
09-29-2011, 05:35 PM
I can't race him when I work 24 hour shifts. Haha

EdmundGTP
09-29-2011, 05:50 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/163/057/opwilldeliver.jpg?1313495485

STAGEUP
09-29-2011, 11:05 PM
I'll smoke him for you. Lol

lollygagger8
09-30-2011, 11:23 AM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/163/057/opwilldeliver.jpg?1313495485

hahahhahahha

wcryan
09-30-2011, 11:27 AM
dont you all be debbie downers just yet

bamacaddy
09-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Ricer excuses...haha

AHAHAAAAA....Since reading the original post, I went out and bought a new SS, raced and beat it with my V....Drove the Camaro till the warranty went out and sold it. Now waiting on the original race from the OP.
wcryan....Sorry I had to jump on the "Bust your balls" bandwagon!

wcryan
09-30-2011, 04:37 PM
It's ok. The little kid comes out in us every now and then. ; )

bamacaddy
09-30-2011, 10:25 PM
It's ok. The little kid comes out in us every now and then. ; )

You are correct sir.....I have to agree with the whole "mob mentality" thing. I mean there's only so much of Cole you can take before you have to either kill him or join him....And due to the fact that he has access to MUCH heavier weaponry I chose joining him.....LOL

wcryan
10-01-2011, 12:40 AM
So u thought. ~arms nuclear bomb~

babrown18
10-01-2011, 10:10 AM
so.... did you ever run the ss?

wes8398
10-05-2011, 05:41 AM
Maybe he's waiting for the camera to be set up in his car so he can have a sweet vid for us to watch... :)

BudRacing
10-05-2011, 08:11 AM
So u thought. ~arms nuclear bomb~

Do. We. Have. A. Problem!?
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHgniCNjOdq89zcW3JF1BHhHkOHbMj7 jXjP5UmGIlbNT2iEGuNqtZUlng

ColeGraham
10-05-2011, 08:45 AM
You are correct sir.....I have to agree with the whole "mob mentality" thing. I mean there's only so much of Cole you can take before you have to either kill him or join him....And due to the fact that he has access to MUCH heavier weaponry I chose joining him.....LOL

My current weapon of choice...haha
http://files.air-attack.com/MIL/b1/b1b_munitions_layout_20110427.jpg

BudRacing
10-05-2011, 09:13 AM
Holy huge picture batman!

06blackonblackctsv
10-05-2011, 11:02 AM
My current weapon of choice...haha


Thats alot of training ammo, you wouldn't do too much damage lol. I still wouldn't want to get hit by one.

CamminV6
10-05-2011, 03:19 PM
maybe late to chime in but I ran a stock (i assume anyway) M6 SS several weeks back from a stoplight up to 125ish (mods in my sig), had him by 2 cars once i got into second gear lol.

babrown18
10-05-2011, 03:29 PM
maybe late to chime in but I ran a stock (i assume anyway) M6 SS several weeks back from a stoplight up to 125ish (mods in my sig), had him by 2 cars once i got into second gear lol.

thank you!! its about time someone answered the question..

and my weapon of choice is......
319722

Made in america, tested in Japan:usa: