how to get a TA around 450rwhp?
09-25-2011, 11:31 PM
#1
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how to get a TA around 450rwhp? was looking to see what mods if would take to get around to 450 rwhp?
I know I will be getting headers for sure, and maybe an LS6 intake (unless I get an '02)
but just wonder what else? or is the only way to get to 450 is with forced induction?
and is it save for stock internals to be pushing that kind of HP?
thanks
I know I will be getting headers for sure, and maybe an LS6 intake (unless I get an '02)
but just wonder what else? or is the only way to get to 450 is with forced induction?
and is it save for stock internals to be pushing that kind of HP?
thanks
09-26-2011, 12:26 AM
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A good head/cam combo along with headers/ free flowing exhaust and the rest of the bolt on's should get you there. Just remember to get sub-frame connectors with that much power and watch your transmission and rear end since they might break with that much power.
09-26-2011, 02:22 AM
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Heads, Cam, Pulley, 102/102 Fast Intake, Headers, Full exhaust, Tune, HVAC Delete, Electric water pump. That should get you in the ballpark. I'm not a fan of N2O however, a little giggle gas with all of that should get you in the 500+ range.
Forced induction, no, read most the posts above, and they don't have any of those.
I have my stock internals. H/C/I car, and I've seen guys w/ Cam only pushing 425, on stock internals. It's all on how you build it up, who you get to tune it, and so forth.
I have my stock internals. H/C/I car, and I've seen guys w/ Cam only pushing 425, on stock internals. It's all on how you build it up, who you get to tune it, and so forth.
09-26-2011, 02:30 AM
#7
Since when is hvac delete a mod for hitting 450rwhp? Or any number for that matter?
A nice set of heads, ai afr trick flow etc, low 230 cam, fast 90 or 92 setup, 1 7/8 heads with good merge and cutout, lid, chrs1313 RAM air, tune.. Should be good for a little over 450rwhp with the track times to back it up.
Internal will be fine.
Cheapest route- Nitrous. A simple 150 hit will get you to you mark with a bone stock motor. All you need is a fuel pump and different plugs. Out a tune on it and you are good.
A nice set of heads, ai afr trick flow etc, low 230 cam, fast 90 or 92 setup, 1 7/8 heads with good merge and cutout, lid, chrs1313 RAM air, tune.. Should be good for a little over 450rwhp with the track times to back it up.
Internal will be fine.
Cheapest route- Nitrous. A simple 150 hit will get you to you mark with a bone stock motor. All you need is a fuel pump and different plugs. Out a tune on it and you are good.
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09-26-2011, 02:48 AM
#9
B. The hell I wouldn't have heat and/or ac on a street car.. Been there, done that. It is not enjoyable!
C. Weight had nothing to do with his stated goal.
Ewp is the, I have nothing else left to do so why not, mods. The performance/dollar is just way too high. There are too many mods that should be first.. And again not needed for 450rwhp.
09-26-2011, 09:52 AM
#10
well 450 rwhp is not impossible, but in order to reach something that high your gonna have to sacrifice luxuries to help produce those numbers.
Hvac delete being one of them, a electric waterpump and a 25% underdrive pulley jus to name a few
normally people doing hvac delete are typically for ALL OUT drag cars, but if you don't mind the heat then it has no downside into doing it. I personally wouldn't do it, but if my goal was 500rwhp then it will come off.
OP ur also going to have to invest in some good flowing heads and a corresponding cam, like a t-rex cam or have someone custom make you a cam that will work good with whatever heads you get. I've seen full bolt on cars reach 425 rwhp.. with stock heads, so take that as a grain of salt
I've seen cars doign 500 rwhp with stock internals, idk if thats good or not lol
Hvac delete being one of them, a electric waterpump and a 25% underdrive pulley jus to name a few
normally people doing hvac delete are typically for ALL OUT drag cars, but if you don't mind the heat then it has no downside into doing it. I personally wouldn't do it, but if my goal was 500rwhp then it will come off.
OP ur also going to have to invest in some good flowing heads and a corresponding cam, like a t-rex cam or have someone custom make you a cam that will work good with whatever heads you get. I've seen full bolt on cars reach 425 rwhp.. with stock heads, so take that as a grain of salt
I've seen cars doign 500 rwhp with stock internals, idk if thats good or not lol
09-26-2011, 10:21 AM
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Take lemons advice OP. A good set of heads and a descent size cam along with all the supporting "common" boltons will be all you need. My car is in sig. it has a small 224 cam untouched factory heads and a small 100 shot of nitrous. Makes 502 rwhp with the stock bottom end my only issue is traction lol.
09-26-2011, 02:35 PM
#13
well 450 rwhp is not impossible, but in order to reach something that high your gonna have to sacrifice luxuries to help produce those numbers.
Hvac delete being one of them, a electric waterpump and a 25% underdrive pulley jus to name a few
normally people doing hvac delete are typically for ALL OUT drag cars, but if you don't mind the heat then it has no downside into doing it. I personally wouldn't do it, but if my goal was 500rwhp then it will come off.
OP ur also going to have to invest in some good flowing heads and a corresponding cam, like a t-rex cam or have someone custom make you a cam that will work good with whatever heads you get. I've seen full bolt on cars reach 425 rwhp.. with stock heads, so take that as a grain of salt
Hvac delete being one of them, a electric waterpump and a 25% underdrive pulley jus to name a few
normally people doing hvac delete are typically for ALL OUT drag cars, but if you don't mind the heat then it has no downside into doing it. I personally wouldn't do it, but if my goal was 500rwhp then it will come off.
OP ur also going to have to invest in some good flowing heads and a corresponding cam, like a t-rex cam or have someone custom make you a cam that will work good with whatever heads you get. I've seen full bolt on cars reach 425 rwhp.. with stock heads, so take that as a grain of salt
What the hell guys? Hvac and an EWP ARE NOT NEEDED for 450Rwhp, PERIOD. 450Rwhp is not that hard to attain. A nice set of heads, EPS mid 230 cam, FAST intake, 1 7/8 heads with a free flowing exhaust... BAM, you made 450Rwhp and then some.
Not to mention the price for an EWP would be much better spent somewhere else.. Porting the intake, Chrs1313 ram air, I could go on.
And the next part... A Trex cam is definitely not needed, nor would I recommend it for this build. I wouldn't use a Trex cam if I was shooting for 500Rwhp.. Check Chrs1313s or Pat Gs build that achieved well over 500Rwh, Chrs1313s being an automatic... Neither have a Trex, not even as large as the Trex... And probably make much more power under the curve than most Trex cars.
Come one guys, know for sure before you tell someone something to do. If they go out and spend 1,500$(or more) because of your advice and don't reach their goal, wouldn't you feel kind of shitty?
09-26-2011, 02:39 PM
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You can do it 1 of 2 ways. Keep the ls6 and go with good heads or get a fast with 243's and a healthy cam. 440-460 is usually the range for decent size cam and heads ls1's. You guys are looking way to far into it we dont drive 4.6 mustangs here.
09-26-2011, 02:51 PM
#15
What the hell guys? Hvac and an EWP ARE NOT NEEDED for 450Rwhp, PERIOD. 450Rwhp is not that hard to attain. A nice set of heads, EPS mid 230 cam, FAST intake, 1 7/8 heads with a free flowing exhaust... BAM, you made 450Rwhp and then some.
Not to mention the price for an EWP would be much better spent somewhere else.. Porting the intake, Chrs1313 ram air, I could go on.
And the next part... A Trex cam is definitely not needed, nor would I recommend it for this build. I wouldn't use a Trex cam if I was shooting for 500Rwhp.. Check Chrs1313s or Pat Gs build that achieved well over 500Rwh, Chrs1313s being an automatic... Neither have a Trex, not even as large as the Trex... And probably make much more power under the curve than most Trex cars.
Come one guys, know for sure before you tell someone something to do. If they go out and spend 1,500$(or more) because of your advice and don't reach their goal, wouldn't you feel kind of shitty?
Not to mention the price for an EWP would be much better spent somewhere else.. Porting the intake, Chrs1313 ram air, I could go on.
And the next part... A Trex cam is definitely not needed, nor would I recommend it for this build. I wouldn't use a Trex cam if I was shooting for 500Rwhp.. Check Chrs1313s or Pat Gs build that achieved well over 500Rwh, Chrs1313s being an automatic... Neither have a Trex, not even as large as the Trex... And probably make much more power under the curve than most Trex cars.
Come one guys, know for sure before you tell someone something to do. If they go out and spend 1,500$(or more) because of your advice and don't reach their goal, wouldn't you feel kind of shitty?
Some people besides the OP need to do more research... the biggest cam is not necessarily going to make the most power. A proper H/C setup is NOT accomplished by throwing an MS4 or TREX at the car with a shitty tune and letting it eat.
Get a good set of heads (ported 243/799 heads if on a budget), a properly spec'd cam, FAST intake, a free-flowing exhaust with a good Y-pipe merge, and a dyno tune by someone who knows what they're doing.
Deleting the A/C is not going to do **** except make you hate your car when it's hot as ***** outside. EWP is unnecessary to get 450 rwhp.
09-26-2011, 02:58 PM
#16
FWIW... My old 98 cars setup and power....
Ms4
stg 1 PRC ls6 heads
FAST 90/90
lid
pacesetters 1 3/4 2.5" Xpipe with 1 chambers
4400 converter
410s
It made right at 425Rwhp... Through 410s and a that huge 4400 converter.
Now, make a few changes...
Drop the cam down a tad smaller so you can go with a nicer set of heads
If you have the money, swap the heads for some 215s.. If not AI 243s.
Port the 90/90 combo
Swap the pacesetters for the now avaliable TSP 1 7/8" SS headers and switch the Xpipe to a larger diameter, better constructed X.
You just added 30Rwhp to an already 425Rwhp car through 410s and a huge stall. Yes that is "bench racing" but I'm just showing what can be made with a simple budget setup through a large stalled auto. Hell you can make 420Rwhp pretty easily without heads with a manual... Add a cheap stg 1 head and pick up a solid 35Rwhp.
Swap that into a manual and you are making WELL over your goal of 480Rwhp.
I didn't even have an under pulley on that car, stock water pump...
Ms4
stg 1 PRC ls6 heads
FAST 90/90
lid
pacesetters 1 3/4 2.5" Xpipe with 1 chambers
4400 converter
410s
It made right at 425Rwhp... Through 410s and a that huge 4400 converter.
Now, make a few changes...
Drop the cam down a tad smaller so you can go with a nicer set of heads
If you have the money, swap the heads for some 215s.. If not AI 243s.
Port the 90/90 combo
Swap the pacesetters for the now avaliable TSP 1 7/8" SS headers and switch the Xpipe to a larger diameter, better constructed X.
You just added 30Rwhp to an already 425Rwhp car through 410s and a huge stall. Yes that is "bench racing" but I'm just showing what can be made with a simple budget setup through a large stalled auto. Hell you can make 420Rwhp pretty easily without heads with a manual... Add a cheap stg 1 head and pick up a solid 35Rwhp.
Swap that into a manual and you are making WELL over your goal of 480Rwhp.
I didn't even have an under pulley on that car, stock water pump...
09-26-2011, 03:39 PM
#17
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Agreed with lemons. An EWP is definitely not needed to attain this number. There are tons of people running healthy heads/cam combo's and hitting that number, and then some. Best bet is to have a nice combo spec'd out for you by someone who is experienced in that aspect, if you don't know anything about that. Or you could always add a nice size juice hit. There are a number of ways going about it. You just need to do a little research and searching these forums.
09-26-2011, 03:54 PM
#18
What the hell guys? Hvac and an EWP ARE NOT NEEDED for 450Rwhp, PERIOD. 450Rwhp is not that hard to attain. A nice set of heads, EPS mid 230 cam, FAST intake, 1 7/8 heads with a free flowing exhaust... BAM, you made 450Rwhp and then some.
Not to mention the price for an EWP would be much better spent somewhere else.. Porting the intake, Chrs1313 ram air, I could go on.
And the next part... A Trex cam is definitely not needed, nor would I recommend it for this build. I wouldn't use a Trex cam if I was shooting for 500Rwhp.. Check Chrs1313s or Pat Gs build that achieved well over 500Rwh, Chrs1313s being an automatic... Neither have a Trex, not even as large as the Trex... And probably make much more power under the curve than most Trex cars.
Come one guys, know for sure before you tell someone something to do. If they go out and spend 1,500$(or more) because of your advice and don't reach their goal, wouldn't you feel kind of shitty?
Not to mention the price for an EWP would be much better spent somewhere else.. Porting the intake, Chrs1313 ram air, I could go on.
And the next part... A Trex cam is definitely not needed, nor would I recommend it for this build. I wouldn't use a Trex cam if I was shooting for 500Rwhp.. Check Chrs1313s or Pat Gs build that achieved well over 500Rwh, Chrs1313s being an automatic... Neither have a Trex, not even as large as the Trex... And probably make much more power under the curve than most Trex cars.
Come one guys, know for sure before you tell someone something to do. If they go out and spend 1,500$(or more) because of your advice and don't reach their goal, wouldn't you feel kind of shitty?
I only mentioned the trex cam cuz of this
The dyno above is of a 99 TransAm with stock unported cylinder heads, Thunder Racing's T-ReX v.2 camshaft, including long tube headers, pulley, LS6 intake manifold, Whisper lid, ported throttle body. Dyno runs were on 93 octane gasoline and a factory steel flyweel.
I did forget about the price of a ELP, they are about $600 if im not mistaken and that money should be spent elsewhere.. however I know some people prefer it over a udp if ur willing to pony up a few extra 100 bucks.
to be quite honest idk why that guys dyno numbers are so low, i would think he'd be right at 400 but eh
09-26-2011, 04:10 PM
#19
Lemons, I'm not gonna argue about that setup. I'm jus saying that from my experience its been a pain to surpass 450rwhp. I've seen some cammed fbodies barely breach the 400rwhp mark, for example this guy https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...s1-99-z28.html this guy has a 228r cam, stock heads, LT's, catted-y, flowmaster, fast 92/92 and nitrous (75 shot i think) and can barely touch 450 rwhp
I only mentioned the trex cam cuz of this
The dyno above is of a 99 TransAm with stock unported cylinder heads, Thunder Racing's T-ReX v.2 camshaft, including long tube headers, pulley, LS6 intake manifold, Whisper lid, ported throttle body. Dyno runs were on 93 octane gasoline and a factory steel flyweel.
I did forget about the price of a ELP, they are about $600 if im not mistaken and that money should be spent elsewhere.. however I know some people prefer it over a udp if ur willing to pony up a few extra 100 bucks.
I only mentioned the trex cam cuz of this
The dyno above is of a 99 TransAm with stock unported cylinder heads, Thunder Racing's T-ReX v.2 camshaft, including long tube headers, pulley, LS6 intake manifold, Whisper lid, ported throttle body. Dyno runs were on 93 octane gasoline and a factory steel flyweel.
I did forget about the price of a ELP, they are about $600 if im not mistaken and that money should be spent elsewhere.. however I know some people prefer it over a udp if ur willing to pony up a few extra 100 bucks.
The Trex is NOT the cam to go with if you are shooting for a record. A few years back, weren't too many grinds that could compete with it. Especially if you get a head to match. With the current lobes available, it has been surpassed.
Just because XXXX can't do it, doesn't mean its hard. I gave the recipe for it, it just depends on if someone wants to spend the money to make it happen. He has a 228r, catted y, stock heads,etc... Horrible setup.
On the side, dyno numbers mean jack ****. I make a measly 370Rwhp.
I'll be making a few more next track outing but I'm also shooting for 7.0s@96.5mph with 1.4X short times... Still at 3450+race weight and 2000+DA. 450Rwhp
Nice set of heads.. 215s if you can afford them.. If not a set of AI 243 will work
something around a 234/236 .615 111
FAST setup
lid
TSP 1 7/8 headers 3-4" FM merge with whatever muffler or reduced back to 3" and whatever muffler you want
underdrive pulley
tune
If that doesn't hit 450Rwhp, the dyno is reading low or the tune is off. There is no reason for that combo to not make that power. It should have a few left over depending on the exact specs on the combo.
1998 Bright Red Camaro SS #731 a4 hardtop/cloth int | G2 Performance lid | Performance Granatelli MAF Sensor | Kooks Coated LT's| ORY | Ferno Bellow | Cut-Out | NGK TR-55IX | Magnaflow Cat Back Exhaust w/ Missile Silo Tips | 3.73 Gears | 3600 Stall | Moroso Battery Relocation Kit | Ricky Fast Tuned | 315/35/17 NITTO 555r Drag Radials | Minor Weight Reduction
You said you were having a hard time surpassing 450Rwhp...? I don't see a cam and/or heads in here.
One thing to make life easier.. Switch to a nice merge... While you are at it I would switch to 1 7/8" headers.
09-26-2011, 05:02 PM
#20
Lemons, I'm not gonna argue about that setup. I'm jus saying that from my experience its been a pain to surpass 450rwhp. I've seen some cammed fbodies barely breach the 400rwhp mark, for example this guy https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...s1-99-z28.html this guy has a 228r cam, stock heads, LT's, catted-y, flowmaster, fast 92/92 and nitrous (75 shot i think) and can barely touch 450 rwhp
