Chevrolet Performance LSX Challenge Series and LSX Shootout - For those of you towing to the shootout...




Fireball
09-29-2011, 05:50 AM
Be aware that apparently, Indiana requires all pickups with trailers to pass through their weigh stations...plan accordingly :)

All trucks are required to enter an Indiana weigh station if it's open. This includes pickup trucks with trailers and rental trucks of all sizes and weights.



http://coopsareopen.com/indiana-weigh-stations.html


Fireball
09-29-2011, 05:57 AM
Also...note that their's been alot of info on the interweb stating how DOT cops have been targeting racers...specifically saying we are "commercial" since we have a potential to win money :jest: Implication is that we'd all have to have med cards, drug testing, log books, etc. If Johnny law thinks you are commercial, they can slap you with thousands of dollars worth of fines :bang:

Know the law! I have printed out the following and keep in my truck at all times when pulling the car. Be aware of the class of license thing if your combined gross vehicle weight (weight rating of truck + trailer) exceeds 26,000 lbs. There have been racers parked until someone with a proper license would show up.

From the federal motor carrier safety administration...

390.3.(f).3 provides an exception as follows:

The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=390.3

They also provided further guidance related to exactly what we do...

Question 21: Does the exemption in 390.3(f)(3) for the ‘‘occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise’’ apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=390.3&guidence=Y

koolrayz
09-29-2011, 06:10 AM
Damn that would have succked to have gotten a ticket for not stopping.
THANKS for the heads up Brian


Cheeks
09-29-2011, 08:06 AM
wow, thats going to be a real pain in the ass to have to wait at weigh stations with my truck and open trailer, but I guess its better than getting a ticket

thanks!!

Camaro_94
09-29-2011, 08:09 AM
That sucks!!!!

REDGAR
09-29-2011, 08:41 AM
Hmm...i better look into this

By the way, you win no money for going to a "car show"
Also what is the guideline on then looking in your trailer..isn't it like looking in the trunk?

Cheeks
09-29-2011, 09:32 AM
I was told by an Indiana State Police Officer today in a "don't let anyone know" type of way that as long as we are headed for a car show ie no cash involved, you'll be ok. But, IF you say RACE in anyway, shape or form you are considered "commercial" and are required to have all of the previously stated documents.

SO, my advice to racers towing into indiana? Don't speed, don't get pulled over, hope all the weigh stations are closed?

LS1LT1
09-29-2011, 09:44 AM
GREAT info guys, thanks for sharing. :cheers:

Fireball
09-29-2011, 10:18 AM
Also what is the guideline on then looking in your trailer..isn't it like looking in the trunk?

thats a gray area...if they think you are commercial, then thats probable cause for a DOT inspection, which includes a trailer inspection.

My best advice is have a "clean" trailer. don't put "Jones Racing" on the side haha. If asked, you are transporting personal private property.

Don't give them reason to be suspicious. More than likely, if you roll through the station, you'll get a green light as long as you weigh 26K lbs or less.

I'm planning on taking my loaded rig to a local certified scale this weekend just to be sure I'm well under that number

Fireball
09-29-2011, 10:26 AM
some food for thought...

http://www.vitamincracing.com/2010/08/police-targeting-drag-racers/
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4110743
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4611784&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
http://www.isocracing.com/uploads/2010-2011/DO%20THE%20COMMERCIAL%20VEHICLE%20REGULATIONS%20AP PLY%20TO%20YOU.pdf

REDGAR
09-29-2011, 12:32 PM
Good stuff Brian. Since we don't get paid to drive and we will never make a profit in this hobby we should be excepted, but I guess not from stopping at the weigh station?

nmass399
09-29-2011, 02:13 PM
This does not suprise me, thanks a million for the info man. I am sure there are tons of people like me who know nothing of this. Hopefully everone will read this and be prepared.

LS1LT1
09-29-2011, 02:58 PM
Hopefully everone will read this and be prepared.:nod: It certainly helped me be prepared...prepared to still drive the car to Indy from New Jersey and not deal with all of this towing/trailering stuff that is :D (I don't even own a tow vehicle/trailer anyway of course) LOL. :)

nmass399
09-29-2011, 03:24 PM
:nod: It certainly helped me be prepared...prepared to still drive the car to Indy from New Jersey and not deal with all of this towing/trailering stuff that is :D (I don't even own a tow vehicle/trailer anyway of course) LOL. :)

Lol, i hear that. We should be ok on our trip. The truck, car and trailer don't weigh that much. Still the thought of having to talk to Dot makes my :bomb:

Fireball
09-29-2011, 04:27 PM
unfortunately, ignorance of the law doesn't help here...

there are so many facets that could be enforced that were never intended for the avg joe :bang:

Fireball
09-29-2011, 04:29 PM
Good stuff Brian. Since we don't get paid to drive and we will never make a profit in this hobby we should be excepted, but I guess not from stopping at the weigh station?

generally, weigh stations say all commercial vehicles over 10,000lbs, but apparently indiana requires any pickup/trailer combo. Just going off what the one site said, I haven't personally seen the signs at the weigh stations to confirm.

that one article I posted was very interesting on this subject. Even if we wanted to claim as a business, by IRS rule, businesses have to be profitable within 3 yrs or somethign along those lines. I don't know about anyone else here but I spend WAAAAYYYYYYY more than I could ever imagine winning :jest:


so IRS defines small-time racers as hobbiests...

REDGAR
09-29-2011, 05:07 PM
:nod: It certainly helped me be prepared...prepared to still drive the car to Indy from New Jersey and not deal with all of this towing/trailering stuff that is :D (I don't even own a tow vehicle/trailer anyway of course) LOL. :)

Yeah that makes it easy for you my friend.

for use going across 70 I only saw one listed for 70 but have not looked yet to see if it is on our way to Indy from the east or west

nmass399
09-29-2011, 11:56 PM
Well as i was told by a very smart man tonight that the dot won't care what the irs says. Whatever the federal guidelines say and the state rules is what they will go by.

Fireball
09-30-2011, 05:44 AM
Well as i was told by a very smart man tonight that the dot won't care what the irs says. Whatever the federal guidelines say and the state rules is what they will go by.

hence what I put in post 2. DOT law (FMCSA regulations) state that it is tied to what is on your taxes...

fortunately, its in "black and white" since its published on the FMCSA website.

remember, a ticket is not admission of guilt...there is always the court system if it really came down to it :usa:

Fireball
09-30-2011, 07:44 AM
Even more black and white. I found the interpretation when it was published in the April 1997 Federal Register.

http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/PDFgate.cgi?WAISdocID=5fxb3t/3/2/0&WAISaction=retrieve

Specifically on Page 16405 (right most column)

REDGAR
09-30-2011, 08:18 AM
Man you are quite the sleuth!!!

CMV = ?
Commercial Motor Vehicle
Common Motor Vehicle
Cool Motor Vehicle

Fireball
09-30-2011, 08:53 AM
Man you are quite the sleuth!!!

CMV = ?
Commercial Motor Vehicle
Common Motor Vehicle
Cool Motor Vehicle

commercial motor vehicle. The loosest definition of a CMV is anything that has a GVWR or GCVWR of 10,001+ lbs. Specifically, you could use a Big rig (if you were properly Class A licenced) to carry your car to the track and still be considered non-commercial per this exemption (think toterhome)

hellbents10
09-30-2011, 09:54 AM
I did not see anything about motor-homes towing???

Fireball
09-30-2011, 11:40 AM
I did not see anything about motor-homes towing???

very gray area...

especially when it comes to gross combined weight which will easily exceed 26K and overall length laws...

hellbents10
09-30-2011, 02:44 PM
That is what I was afraid of, but Dave seems to think its going to be no big deal. He doesn't even plan on going through the coop if its open!

Fireball
09-30-2011, 03:32 PM
That is what I was afraid of, but Dave seems to think its going to be no big deal. He doesn't even plan on going through the coop if its open!

I will play that by ear...mainly what the sign says...

98NYFINESTVETTE
09-30-2011, 04:06 PM
I am at 24,600. I guess I will have a small delay added to the trip.

REDGAR
09-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Looks like us eastern guys hit the Richmond one on 70 right where we enter Indiana but I just went through there to go to BG, I think, and of course did not stop

blu byu EH
09-30-2011, 07:43 PM
The best thing to do is make sure all your lights are working on the pickup/rv and the trailer and they will leave you alone. And if they pull you around back and ask what your doing don't tell them your racing for money, just say going to the track to do some testing.

Here are the scales in IN

-hwy. 70 east mile 1 in Terre Haute, IN

-hwy. 70 west mile 147ish in Richmound, IN

-hwy. 74 east mile 17ish in Veedersburg, IN 99.9 % sure this one is closed!!

-hwy. 69 south mile 89ish in Markle, IN

-hwy. 65 south mile 242ish in Dinwiddle, IN

-hwy. 65 north and south mile 51 in Seymor, IN

nmass399
10-02-2011, 12:20 AM
hence what I put in post 2. DOT law (FMCSA regulations) state that it is tied to what is on your taxes...

fortunately, its in "black and white" since its published on the FMCSA website.

remember, a ticket is not admission of guilt...there is always the court system if it really came down to it :usa:

Your right, i have been looking at all those other forums trying to figure out basically everything. I am gonna call the fmcsa monday and make sure about a few things to make sure we are in the right so if it does come down to getting stopped, we will know that we are good even if we get a ticket. I have been considering pulling the car off the trailor at the state line and driving it the rest of the way up. Thats only if i can get a certain part to work properly on the car.

Fireball
10-02-2011, 07:04 AM
weighed my rig yesterday on a set of certified scales...GCVWR is 26,000 lb (12,000 truck, 14,000lb trailer). Actual weight is 20350 lbs.

joelster
10-02-2011, 09:42 AM
Maybe someone from Indiana could provide a road map to the racetrack where there are no weigh stations? I mean i'm sure they are on major highways, but there has to be other ways to get to the track and not see a weigh station.

joelster
10-02-2011, 09:47 AM
Here is a map of the federal weigh stations that are on the highways that most of the guys will be traveling on: Red dots:

http://coopsareopen.com/images/maps/indiana.gif


Weigh Station Name Highway / Route Mile Truck Scale Location
Lowell I 65 - sb 231.5 Lowell (.5 miles north of IN 2)
Seymour I 65 - nb 51 Seymour (1.2 miles north of US 50)
Seymour I 65 - sb 51 Seymour (1.2 miles north of US 50)
Warren (Huntington) I 69 - sb 80 Warren (south of Ft. Wayne)
Richmond I 70 - wb 148 Richmond (1.03 miles west of US 35)
Hillsboro (Crawfordsville) I 74 - eb 18.5 Hillsboro
West Harrison I 74 - wb 170.5 West Harrison (at Ohio border)
Chesterton (Michigan City) I 94 - eb northeast of Chesterton 5.7 miles west of Jct US 4
Chesterton (Michigan City) I 94 - wb northeast of Chesterton 5.7 miles west of Jct US 4
Terre Haute 70 - eb 0 Terre Haute

BLNLS1/RX7
10-02-2011, 06:08 PM
This is all news to me since I have been hauling my car on a trailer for over 9 years in Indiana where I live and have never once stopped at a weight station and have been pulled over.

codyvette
10-03-2011, 12:21 AM
That's retarded, maybe they should move the shootout to royal purple raceway in Houston. LMAO

98NYFINESTVETTE
10-03-2011, 09:32 PM
Looks like us eastern guys hit the Richmond one on 70 right where we enter Indiana but I just went through there to go to BG, I think, and of course did not stop

I think I saw it too, I did not stop.

98NYFINESTVETTE
10-03-2011, 09:41 PM
That's retarded, maybe they should move the shootout to royal purple raceway in Houston. LMAO

How about going north? Coming from the North East, we travel the furthest and I think most of the racers for the LSX are from the North East.

I also think if the LSX Series had a event more towards the North East, the car count would probably almost double or if not triple. Just a thought.

At our local track (Raceway Park) we have a EFI Series with many LS vehicle, then we have our Corvette series. The car count in the Corvette Challenge is a steady 40 to 50 Corvettes racing at each event. That is not including the racer that comes out once in awhile. With just our two series, we already matched the LSX series car count. Just imagine if you include the racers from other local tracks.

Zmg00camaross
10-03-2011, 09:55 PM
^^^ I doubt that. But I hope we will be bringing two trailers one has living quarters so I would consider it a RV :) The other a 28 ft enclosed shouldnt have a problem.

penningta
10-04-2011, 09:05 AM
^^^ I doubt that. But I hope we will be bringing two trailers one has living quarters so I would consider it a RV :) The other a 28 ft enclosed shouldnt have a problem.

Right, But the one with the living quarters is way over gross weight. And Im pretty sure its over length.

98NYFINESTVETTE
10-04-2011, 11:43 AM
Is there a min. length for a truck & trailer to pull in? When I went to Fla. I was under the total length. I think Fla is over 65 feet, I was 63 feet total. For the weight, I think I am at 24,300 for this trip.
As mentioned, I will read the signs and decide from there.

Fireball
10-04-2011, 12:01 PM
My feeling if it says all vehicles over 5 tons (10,000 lbs), it applies

If it says all commercial vehicles over 5 tons, keep on truckin :jest:

biggest thing I'd consider...is if you keep on truckin and they come a chasin', then you are gonna have a pissed off johnny lawman to deal with

98NYFINESTVETTE
10-04-2011, 01:54 PM
I think the reason I did not stop was because I saw the word commericial on the sign. The burden of proof would be on them to determine if I am a commecial vehicle. I will say I have a show car and stick to the story.
Thanks for the info.

samckitt
10-04-2011, 02:36 PM
Be aware that apparently, Indiana requires all pickups with trailers to pass through their weigh stations...plan accordingly :)





http://coopsareopen.com/indiana-weigh-stations.html

I have lived in Indiana all my life, until about a year ago, been there for 41 years, and NEVER heard/seen pickup trucks towing any type of trailer go through weigh stations.

Fireball
10-04-2011, 02:48 PM
just stating what I saw online....actual signage will determine what to do.

stepuptata
10-04-2011, 07:08 PM
I live @ cincy ohio and have towed cars through indy several times. Not oncce have I ever stopped at a station and I have never been stopped.....I do not plan on stopping this saturday either

stepuptata
10-04-2011, 07:09 PM
i have lived in indiana all my life, until about a year ago, been there for 41 years, and never heard/seen pickup trucks towing any type of trailer go through weigh stations.

x2......

Zmg00camaross
10-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Right, But the one with the living quarters is way over gross weight. And Im pretty sure its over length.

Still dont need a CDL to pull a RV :bomb: It cant be that overweight haha

Orange99Z
10-05-2011, 08:42 PM
I came in 70 west from the Ohio side & didn't go through any weigh stations.. Never had any problems driving past. The signs just say all trucks must enter. It doesn't say commercial or list a weight limit.

Fireball
10-06-2011, 06:23 AM
Ohio says commercial trucks over 5 tons. kept on rolling...

LS1LT1
10-06-2011, 07:59 AM
I'm in Indy now and almost every single weigh station (PA, OH or IN) I'd passed on the way out here was closed. It was mostly the wee hours of the night/morning though if that matters.

dnkynrbk
10-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Anyone have any issues passing the scale

dnkynrbk
10-06-2011, 03:33 PM
Just passed tne scale on I-70 ftw

Fireball
10-06-2011, 05:24 PM
I just passed it too...