License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

I saw the thread w/ detailing and gave some of those techniques a try.

Both my bumpers are heavily dull and faded....looked to me like it had no clear coat!!

Today just to test a small area...I ran 1000 grit wet sanding.....then by hand I rubbed in Meguir's Ultimate compound because I could not find M105 locally. Then also by hand I rubbed in meguirs red bottle polish. Incredible.

Should I wait and get a hold of M105 cut compound rather than this off the shelf ultimate?

I am extremely shocked at how this little section came out....its brilliant...and very different from before.....looks like I can put off the whole paint job for a little while longer. I do however see what looks like some of the streaking from the long strokes of sanding....which is why I want to step up to 3000 grit...but like I said these are results without the rotary buffer...rubbing by hand so maybe the by hand buffing is what is leaving the long sand stroking as well as the grit being 1000.

I plan to instead switch to 3000 grit wet for the whole bumpers....then use Ultimate compound on the rotary machine....then run the red bottle of Meguir's Polish also on rotary machine......then finalize with Meguirs liquid wax.

I realize this is not the industrial strenght version but the problem is I cant find those products off the shelf.

I'd like to bring back as much luster as I can from both bumpers.

If my strategy is all wrong please let me know.
Also if I should not use the ultimate compound?...I thought it'd be ok since it also mentions the micro abrasive stuff and I have read it is supposed to be less abrasive than M105. But I dont know if M105 is just better in general and just the best choice to use if so I'll wait until i find it.

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

there is a ask a pro detailer thread going on in the appearance section, you will have way better luck asking this in there, imo 1000 is to much, but it depends on the job, honest i would use a clay bar ,compounds,etc m105,205 with a pc, imo if you have never wet sanded a car than i would stay away from it. but post this in that thread, gofast is the top detailer on this site and im sure he would be more than happy to help you out.as far as doing it by hand that just isnt going to happen

Rare96LT1Formula

iTrader: (32)

This X 100000


Surface prep, surface prep, surface prep. Did you wash the car and clay it prior to wetsanding? IMO, a hand applied megs ultimate compound simply isn't going to cut it. Verify this with Jeff (GoFast908z) but you probably should've done a little more research before jumping into this.

FWIW, wetsanding is normally followed by rotary polishing.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

I washed it down real good....but nah no clay.

I only did a small section to see if it could comeback becuz I was certain there was no clearcoat left there.

I'm starting to think that it may be that both bumpers are just what they call heavily oxidized.

I did do a lot of research....like I said this was a trial run...in a small area....with a definite incredible result. I defininitely have to do this process.

I'm just trying to do some more research now....I read that whole thread....it is definitely what inspired me.

I wanted to take some pics so the more seasoned vets could see what im working on but didnt get a chance to.
I'm going to try to find m105....i've done body work in the past but im no guru....but at the same time i'm not going to go through to the paint now that I can see there is some clear coat still there.
The M105 is more aggressive than ultimate....and I do beleive they are in the same family....SMAT not DAT. I agree with what's been posted so far compounding is not going to take this off....which is why I went straight to super light wet sanding.....now i want to go with 3000 or even 4000.
Then use the ultimate to microcut.
The rythm im using to sand is back in forth in a straight line... with a small sanding block.
I really can't complain on the results....I did about 3 inch wide area a foot long. I dont think the new strategy is bad....Im going to read some more tho.
Please offer w/e insight you can...i'll try to post to that thread....i think that guy is overloaded tho....too many questions for him. Hence the seperate thread.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

the ultimate is designed to be a hand or da compound.
the m105 is designed for rotary tool.

that being said tho...the rotary tool with m105 is going to be fairly aggresive and a lot easier to do more harm than good with especially for a newb.

I actually am considering running the ultimate with my air DA or electric rotary either or at very slow speeds to allow a noob some slack...i think it's safer and still better than by hand.....at a slow speed the compound should not be able to tell the difference that im not the one rubbing it.
with some patience the results should be as if by hand.

No i will not buy a pc...or meg machine..or yada yada....an orbital is an orbital....with good control over speed they are all the same...maybe the handles could be better... my rotary is a run of the mill chicago electric also will not replace it with the other fav name out there...those things cost money and well with what i have it's redundent.

Rare96LT1Formula

iTrader: (32)

License2ILL - What I meant when I said wetsanding is normally followed by rotary polishing was more of a blanket statement than anything. Not saying you couldn't do it the way you did, just my personal $.02 that you could've achieved better results with alternative methods. And you're right, Jeff is definitely getting killed with detailing questions in his thread, but I can tell you for sure when he becomes available he will answer all the questions that wait for him. In regards to your possibly oxidized paint, I think if you posted some pictures that'd tell us much more than we currently know. For oxidation removal, I've heard GREAT reviews on 3D HDO UNO, but again, those reviews are from professionals/semi-professionals using a rotary buffer. Post some pics.


EDIT: There's another user that operates a detailing business that's been posting in the professional detailer thread, I believe his user name is ThidGenTA or something like that. He's offered to personally help me on several of my own detailing operations (he lives fairly close). Hopefully he doesn't mind that I refer you to him.

Gipraw

iTrader: (10)

M105 can be applied with a rotary or a DA.

1000 grit, then polished out by hand is not going to give you the best finish.

All orbitals are not alike. If it is a 10", it doesn't have the torque or speed necessary to work the product correctly, and the available pad selection is horrid. Cheaper 6" versions can also lack the ***** to get the job done correctly.



I would recommend investing in good quality pads and product to get the job done to the best possible finish, and with the least damage to the vehicle, instead of wet sanding.

Wet sanding bumpers can be a slippery slope, as the clear build up is usually not as thick as it is on the panels, and it is easier to make a mistake.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Im trying to find some pics....
Thank you both.
My pneumatic orbitals are 6 inch my rotarty is a 7inch.
I'm not trying to say all orbitals are alike im trying to say that dual action is dual action.

By hand is not my intent as that shoulder is not willing...hehe. Ijust trialed for the sake of seeing the results only.
Doug thanks for the input on the bumpers being extra sensitive....let me see what I can do to find M105 and if I strike out with just trying to compound...then I'll think of wet sanding.

After all the mantra on your signature is the golden rule.
I tried to find some pics on my phone but those were not good enuff.

Gipraw

iTrader: (10)

If you end up wet sanding, I'd start at 1500 or so , and end up @ 3000 grit, or above, which will make for a much better finished product.

Several of the online detail supply places sell small bottles of M105 and M205, if you don't want to by the full 16 or 32 oz bottles.

I would think the 105/205 combo using your pneumatic, and a good quality foam pad would be your best bet .. sight unseen, anyway.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

I got a hold of the 105 and 205...will be returning the Ultimate stuff.
I'm going to trial run using wool. No wetsanding.
Then foam apply the 205. All with the rotary.
This stuff was not cheap....and i had to buy the quarts...32$ a pop. No one has the smaller locally...and I dont want to give up a cool breezy weekend waiting on delivery.
sux but what can i do?
What pisses me off is finding pads and such....I'm going to have to use what came with my rotary...lucky it's all still new.
I dont understand what all the mystery is regarding stocking eff'ing foam pads of any kind....hell even in home depot. So i'll probably end up ordering that online for later use...or run into this Auto supply store tomorrow morning unless i make it to them before they close tonight.....I may try since I have to imagine the wool will not cut much.

94'BLKBRD

iTrader: (76)

Good luck bro....hope everything turns out good....


....

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Pix...too fast too furious before the sun comes down. the left of rear bumper is where I had at it by hand after light sanding.....the front bumper the worst of it all is by the hood.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

the last one is my face upon the first glimmer of hope that i dont need to paint just yet.
Ill check my emails if u guys think im gonna really fuuuggggg things up....send a note asap. cuz im heading back out there right now. but no sanding..just wool and M105...light even pressure no snap jerks......watching the edges...watch the curves....slow rpms.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Well some results....it was caking up....the side that isn't sanded is not giving way.....i gently passed over the hand polished side and even more glimmer.

I think i will probably hit it w/sandpaper as originally thought.

I did notice some microscopic embedment in the side hand polished...this may be what claying is intended to prevent...so that's going to complicate things and I will have to look into it tonight.

Regardless the m105 with the wool brought it down some and did bring back some lustre...but far far from the smoothness of the sanded side.
In any case im thinking of possibly clay to remove all stuck on contaminants....then sanding....then 105.

The only thing that could play things out differently is the foam pads i guess if you guys know this to be a night/day difference then let me know.

the m105 did seem to be caking up....i started using some water on a fresh wool pad to help out and it did....but like I said the roughness on the surface is too much...lustre did come back....but the surface is nasty....i intended on sanding with 3000 grit but some of you have suggested maybe 1500 then 2000 or 3000 to finalize...is spoke to the locals and hes got 1500 and 2K but not 3k. If u know i can do good enough w/just 2K alone let know as well.

Gipraw

iTrader: (10)

A wool pad has a lot heavier cut than a foam pad. If you hit it with a wool pad and 105 only, then you have a lot of marring still. Coming back over it with the 205 and a foam pad should bring some clarity back to the finish. 105 can be tricky with a wool pad, especially on a heavily oxidized surface.

GoFast908Z

iTrader: (12)

FWIW, I haven't been overloaded in the other thread....I've been gone for a week @ SEMA in Vegas and was only on the computer a couple times. Thought I posted that I'd be gone....maybe I forgot?

Anyway I've been spending the last few hours catching up on emails and unpacking and I'm completely exhausted. But I did read through this thread and have a few quick thoughts for you to consider. I can elaborate on them more later.

First, all DA's are not equal. What power motor they have makes an enormous difference, also the throw of it (most are 5/16th, and air is 3/16th, cheap DAs are 7/16th), and the holding force of the clutch when pressure is applied, counterweights are important too.

Why are you opposed to the DA? It is a VERY valuable tool.

You have clear coat failure on the front bumper. I wouldn't do anything to it, it will get much worse if you do as you'd be removing the little bit of clear coat that is left. And its likely the rear bumper is not far off. Sanding on this paint would not be advisable.


...Ok I have zero energy left and its way past bedtime! Its one thing to stay up till 3 in Vegas, but another thing back home!

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Pix after 2k sand...then M105 onWool(snegel brand) via rotary. No M205 yet.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

more Pix after 2k sand...then M105 onWool(snegel brand) via rotary. No M205 yet.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Hey man no worries bro...I really appreciate your thread it's very informative. I read all of it as well as many youtube videos as u suggested.
Didnt mean to sound against DA's I just dont have an electrical one....and well I do think that rotarys catch a bad rap tho.....I have one and have used it before. I didn't want to use the air DA becuz I threw out the cheap chinese regulator I had...and I didnt want to have to concentrate on getting the right speed on the hand lever. So rotary it was.

I just posted some pix......the rear bumper came out pretty good I think.

I'm going to try my hand on the front I really dont think it could get any worst...if the front can look like the rear in most areas i'll be happy....for now.

Thanks for responding!

I did go forward w/some sanding...not to contradict...it's just that the surface was so abrasive that it would not take the compounding good enough IMO it needed to get knocked down a bit..so the compound can get in and do it's work.
All in all it was a good 7-8hrs yea i know noob...but i didnt rush and i made a day of it...trying to learn. towards the end i got in the zone for how to work M105 without it gunking up. I also had to run out and get a 3in pad. to work the curved areas.

Im ok with the results I think...or maybe I just dont know any better.....I guess I could have gone to someone to do it for me....but honestly it would take someone with your portfolio for me to trust them...and for the learning experience and to not be pissed off at someone else's bad results...I was more willing to accept my own.

GoFast908Z

iTrader: (12)

Seriously don't do the front end. It needs to be repainted. What sanding and polishing does is remove damaged layers of clear coat. Your clear coat has failed and is peeling away on the front. Anything you do to it will make the failure spread considerably faster and you risk polishing the color right off the panel as there will no longer be a barrier there. If your rear bumper looked like the front one before you started then that gloss you got will be short lived and will look bad soon.