Cross

iTrader: (10)

Ok I have paid to have my car tuned and the tuner has done a nice job I just feel there is more and he thinks I am... well wrong. I respect his opinion but well I would like to try and see what can be done.

Issues and Symptoms:
1) Exhaust tips are black, to me that says still rich
2) Idle is sometimes fine and other times stalls out
3) Timing was done on the Dyno and he went from 32 to 34 and it did not make more power so I would believe he has the timing dead on I am open to suggestions.
4) MPG is horrible I am getting 175-177 miles per fill up...

Mods: (01 C5 Corvette LS1 Motor has less than 1100 miles)
Milled 243's
Comp 222/224 .566/.568 112lsa Cam
Crane Gold 1.7 Adjustable Roller Rockers
BBK SSI Intake, BBK 80mm TB
Black Wing Intake
40lbs Injectors (Bosch not the Ford ones, they are from a saab weird I know but flow rate is confirmed)
New Delphi O2 Sensors
Headers, Full Exhaust, No Cats



Here is a Log, the Tune file and the Dyno graph. Dyno done is 96-97 Degree weather, 3000 feet or so Elevation and 7% Humidity on a Dynojet.

Log: (From after the Dyno tune, just did this log a day ago)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/6/...tune%20Log.hpl

Tune:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/6/...-Dynotuned.hpt

Dyno:


My Goals:
I really want to lean out the cruise sections and idle to gain fuel economy.
I would like a stable idle.
I would like to know if my feelings that going beyond E85 Stoich is where I will gain more power WOT since E85 allows this unlike gas or if no matter what beyond Max Lean Stoich E85 stops making power. I would like to tweak my WOT setup currently before I make a run on the dyno at a dyno day this weekend. (Saturday)

I finally found the Primary VE table... over looked it 3 or 4 times its quite obvious... oh well now to find the cruise area's in my log and make a few changes.

Has anyone played with that stall prevention section I noticed it was turned off.

Ok the more I look at the logs now knowing where this table is the more I question changing it. As I think about prior tuning and what I believe I understand about this PCM. If I change the VE table thats not going to get me the results I want as even leaning it out there the ECU is just going to pull it back (Atleast during cruise I have been told at WOT the PCM ignores the O2's it seems so there I should be able to change it right?) in correction.
There should be an AFR table I can adjust or atleast there always was with Megasquirt/Tuner Studio. What is the equivalent here?

I do not mind doing the work myself but I am familiar with Tuner Studio and Megasquirt.
With HP Tuners this is really different to me and I just don't know what I am playing with yet. Thats why I paid someone else but I would like to get into it myself and really get it dialed in this last little bit, or find out I am completely wrong.

Thanks everyone!

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Well I played around a little with the tune trying to get used to where things are and I still have to say... damn there are a hell of a lot more options to figure out here just to play around.

I figured I would start with the basics and have been trying to read through some HP Tuner forums information. Not sure I am ready to post there yet but maybe later today.

Anyway I changed the stoich mix from 9.70xxx to 10.11xxx as a starting point to see how it affects it. I also made some changes to the fan settings just to suit my tastes and I noticed misfire detection was basically turned off... is this normal? I changed it to be back on but I am not sure what the stock settings are mine was set to turn on at 283 and off at 284... doesn't sound right to me.

I still would not mind some insight on this as I am really just trying to get used to the setup of a much more... powerful PCM compared to Megasquirt 2. Nothing is where I am used to and I have a lot more to work with here. I am used to a target AFR table, Fuel VE table and yes the enrichment tables etc. But here we have quite a few things that are just flat out new to me.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

My vette engine/combo is similar to yours.. i would expect it to be closer to 400whp though. Are you running an auto trans? Mine with adding timing did make a noticeable difference down low and mid range, couldnt tell on top much. I dont use a dyno. Also the MPG you get is about what mine is. Its E85, you use a lot more....its expected.

Rhino79

iTrader: (7)

Stoich for e85 is 9.7x. Im not sure leaning it out is going to help the cause. Misfire was disabled likely because of the cam to prevent a false p0300. It sounds like he did pretty good with the tune and from what I have found digging around is that the na motors (stockish and mild) don't benefit nearly like max effort and boost apps.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Not really what I am talking about when I say more in it mainly gas mileage and black on the exhaust tells me its wasting Ga... E85 lol. Did you look at the tune or just an off the wall comment?

Anyway tried the changes I made happy with them still the idle issue and it def has a problem when its cold it hesitates, lags on throttle response but once warm its fine.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

I have an M6 and Tucson is about 3000 Feet Elevation so it kinda makes one... sad on the Dyno lol. I will give it a shot in phoenix at some point but after the cold issues tonight I really want to take a look at fixing those first.

Rhino79

iTrader: (7)

Closed loop operation is going to control part throttle fueling. As far as your cold engine hesitation etc., could be something with the open loop commanded fueling.

BADD SS

iTrader: (4)

How many miles per tank were you getting before e-85?

Looking at it your a/f's look a little on the lean side anyway. 13.25:1, 13.23


definately not pig rich.....

BTLD_LS1

iTrader: (1)

Any chance you can get the actual run files? Its hard to determine what was actually happening on the individual runs, especially with max smoothing...

Cross

iTrader: (10)

I was thinking this but honestly I am still not sure where to look for it. Still looking at everything and at some points scratching my head lol.

I thought the same thing esp for E85 but then I am not sure how the tuner set it up. I just find myself wondering why it looks rich, why I can smell fuel at times and others make the same comment.
Those together with my gas mileage lead me to believe rich was the place to start.
However I am very open to information so that I myself understand esp if I have made a mistake.
I also know the tuner told me he started with a race gas tune then modified it.

I was getting over 300 Miles per tank before E85 it has been quite a while so I am not sure I will try and remember but I know 19-23mpg was what the computer always told me.

I thought that was what I was posting those are the full runs start to finish driving as log files is there something else I should be doing?

BTLD_LS1

iTrader: (1)

I was talking about the actual dynojet run files, not your log file from hptuners. When you max the smoothing out on the dyno run files it gets rid of peaks and valleys in the graph which could show spark drop or other things

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Oh... not my dyno didn't know I could request that.

BTLD_LS1

iTrader: (1)

Most dyno shops will offer to email you your run files and then you can download the free run viewer from dynojet and play with them on your own to see what is really happening. Also, as someone stated on the hptuners forum, you should be running closer to 12:1 on a gas A/F gauge at WOT. I found a great site that has a chart of this, but I have it bookmarked at home, and cant find it at the moment, but I did notate on my tune:

w/E85
Stoich - 14.7
Max power rich - 10.4
Max power lean - 12.6

Just for example here is one of my runs:



You'll notice where the marker is power drops as it was losing spark, however, if I change to smoothing 5 this goes away as it averages the numbers to create a smooth graph, just like the smoothing feature in hptuners.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Hmm so you stopped making power there and I should actually stop leaning it out then even though I see carbon... I have been mulling over that for the past day since I did the change, the car feels fine I just thought maybe what I should be focusing on is leaning out the cruise and idle sections only to save gas and leaving it alone else where.

I was kinda hoping there may be some power left in leaning it out further at WOT in area's just because of what you can do with E85 and its resistance to knock but I have not really run into anyone else running NA that I could talk to about this nor was I the tuner so I could not test my idea on the dyno and see what happened.
It has been slightly bothering me because while it makes sense that it would make more power due to the way E85 is I also think back to what I have read at some point it stops and you can cause damage.... I think I am well below the damage area right now but I am still concerned.


On the run files, they were not offered to me so I doubt they exist.

imaboa

I can't download the tune or the log to look at the link.

PM Me and I'll take a look.

Its been my experience that E85 doesn't help mild NA cars that much. Boosted cars are a totally different story.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Alright I will PM you, so far though it seems to be doing quite well I am just trying to get familiar with how I can adjust the area's I want to such as cruising AFR and other things as well as what can be done with say WOT and my thoughts on seeing if we can take it further or not with the way E85 responds.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Just bumping this in the hopes the last two posters return.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Not trying to bust your ***** but all cars have black exhaust tips, at least every one I have ever seen in my entire life. That means stock, modded, cats, no cats, just the nature of the beast. For reference and what I have always found helpful, obtain a stock tune for your car in the HPTuners repository, and open it as a compare file. Then as you are scrolling through your current tune, you can see exactly what's been changed and how much.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

I would love to be able to but while I bought my HP Tuners from a Vender as new I can not get into the repository nor can I get an answer from HP Tuners as to why I can not. That was one of my first thoughts.

As for the black tips, its always been common knowledge to me that black on the exhaust tips and the rear bumper means rich.

2TR

Wait a minute. You purchased it from a vendor who supposedly didn't provide the serial key (Who?). I don't believe that. You have to have it to use the software on your computer. I purchased mine years ago from a vendor (not Hp Tuners Direct) and everything is in the box including the serial number.

You need to use the below link: (Have a interface and no login?)

http://www.hptuners.com/customers/newcust.php

Once you have done the above go check your email. Create a password and login to your user acct. on HpTuners.com to view the tune repository for a comparison stock tune.