Chevrolet Performance LSX Challenge Series and LSX Shootout - LSX Shootout Rule changes for 2012?

Will there be any announcements on any rule changes for the LSX Shootout series before the PRI show this year?

Just looking to move in a direction, yesterday.

Thanks!

Seems like it's always after PRI. I could be wrong though....

Keith has it pretty well nailed.

Cool, just riding the fence and getting a sore nutsack, That's all.

50 views in a few hours, tell me there isn't some anticipation.

Looking forward to PRI!

x2 Tim; after PRI means my local track banquet and then planning begins for 2012!

Derek

Keith has it pretty well nailed.

See you guys at PRI.

I hope to be hitting up PRI this year, would be my first time attending.

and I am waiting on rule changes before I touch my car.

Are there gona be any more heads up classes? I switched to AM this year at indy because it only had 4 cars, (me and TSP got it to 6) I saw the the other events didn't have any cars too. And and its not that fun racing is a huge everything index class.

FYI there was a more LS1 cars in "All Motor" at The Import vs domestic race at MIR 2 weeks ago, the the LSX all motor gets.
And a bunch of other LSX is the other heads up classes, True street, and Super street. The really have something for everyone, all the faster then 10.90s cars that would love to run in a heads up class.

http://www.importvsdomestic.com/wcf/main.htm

http://importvsdomestic.com/rules/06/2011_wcf_domestic_allmotor.pdf
http://importvsdomestic.com/rules/05/2011_wcf_domestic_truestreet.pdf
http://importvsdomestic.com/rules/07/2011_wcf_domestic_superstreet.pdf

I'm wondering what rule changes they are thinking about, and what changes were asked for by racers. I know there were a few requests for Real Street, which from the sounds of things, would open up the class to older race cars that could migrate to the LS engine platform but have some chassis and body changes that would be hard or expensive to swap back to stock.

I'm sure that many folks like me were also impressed with how strong the nitrous combos could get in RS as well, though I wonder if there is thought to add a little weight to nos + big cube combos.

I'm not sure there will ever be a solution to all motor. I personally think that shops need to get involved more in this class, and sponsor the 4-5 serious cars that run this. Someone should get Joe H into a better set of heads, and I hope to see the Lashley's out more next year.

Edit... How about All Motor Junior, T56 only, weight rules that really make sense spanning stock cubes all the way out to 427. Max of a 28. No customized shift-less trans stuff. Start the class with a target ET of 10.4 and see what happens.

I think also that all the heads up classes should allow E85, and tell the racers they will be tested for it. E85 is the racing fuel of the future, what with C16 running $11 a gallon.

a lot of good points PSJ. I agree with the RS big cube nitrous combo's might be on the light side a little. I think I am going to have a hard time getting down to a MIN weight, almost cost as much money as building a 440" lsx short block.... and I am deff ditching the T56 if I end up running this class.

I have not seen much said about anyone wanting to run RS, but you can count me in, and my car should be white by next year, so maybe there will be 3 white LSX cars battling it out in RS LOL haha

Unfortunately that is just how it goes with F-bodies...cutting weight is difficult, but at the same time it becomes unsafe when the cars get too heavy.

We will be in rs next year. It's been make clear the class is setup for the nitrous cars, and proven by the results of 2011. We'll throw our turbo setup into the class next year, but without weight added to the nitrous cars, we won't stand much hope. Regardless, we plan to be there to race!

Should be interesting to see what happens.

On the E85 I think the biggest issue I've seen on multiple fronts is testing it. Pump Gas can be hard to test as well versus the race gases many classes mandate. Would help with the costs, but not a help if you can't test it to make sure everyone is playing on a level field.

Derek

E85 testing is EASY. at least the alcohol content part is and that's what everyone worries about. I honestly don't think testing is the problem, it sponsor support.

We will be in rs next year. It's been make clear the class is setup for the nitrous cars, and proven by the results of 2011. We'll throw our turbo setup into the class next year, but without weight added to the nitrous cars, we won't stand much hope. Regardless, we plan to be there to race!

The supercharger combo will be the one to beat if someone builds one.
We are trying to talk Strauss into putting a F1c on his for a few of these races. It will go bottom 8's easily (7.9x potential). :devil:

F1r He has been 8.0's @ 3300 in 10 passes.
F1c @ 410ci gets to be 3150. :)

So leave the N20 cars alone, the boosted cars will catch up and pass them as soon as a few purpose built boosted cars show up.

The supercharger combo will be the one to beat if someone builds one.
We are trying to talk Strauss into putting a F1c on his for a few of these races. It will go bottom 8's easily (7.9x potential). :devil:

F1r He has been 8.0's @ 3300 in 10 passes.
F1c @ 410ci gets to be 3150. :)

So leave the N20 cars alone, the boosted cars will catch up and pass them as soon as a few purpose built boosted cars show up.



I think within the rules, I'd rather be with a YSi than a F1c. I do agree though, with the ways the rules are written, it could be handled well by a s/c car. Right now though, even you would agree a 76mm is sucking wind trying to even go 8.50's through the 1/4.


I'm not hating on the nitrous cars. I would say that I would put $$$ there's quite a bit left in the Preston's combo if/when someone else actually shows up with a legitimate 8.50 or faster car. I bet he's got low 8's in his combo as it sits right now.

I mainly want to see RS car count go up, and I think allowing in ladder bar older cars would help. I think it would be sick to see Strauss run an F1C, honestly he would be the guy to show what that smaller blower could do vs. his F1R. I'd love to see someone run a YSi with a gear drive too (ZSSMan???)

I think within the rules, I'd rather be with a YSi than a F1c. I do agree though, with the ways the rules are written, it could be handled well by a s/c car. Right now though, even you would agree a 76mm is sucking wind trying to even go 8.50's through the 1/4.


I'm not hating on the nitrous cars. I would say that I would put $$$ there's quite a bit left in the Preston's combo if/when someone else actually shows up with a legitimate 8.50 or faster car. I bet he's got low 8's in his combo as it sits right now.

76 would be hard pressed to keep up with f1c.
I think US275 allows 80mm to run with f1c & ysi

Nitrous cars dont have much more, they are jet limited.
Once the boosted cars "show up" they will have to loosen the jet restiction.

I could see a nitrous setup running bottom 8's with the current rules. Just someone has to build it and show up.

With the current rules you could build a 420" nitrous setup, make 980's on motor and spray it. Hell I am lucky to be making that on the spray now. If only I had the funds to do so, it would be done. anyone want to sponser a Real Street Car?? LOL

I could see a nitrous setup running bottom 8's with the current rules. Just someone has to build it and show up.

With the current rules you could build a 420" nitrous setup, make 980's on motor and spray it. Hell I am lucky to be making that on the spray now. If only I had the funds to do so, it would be done. anyone want to sponser a Real Street Car?? LOL


That motor/car is already in the class. You race it every time you show up and get drug by the White SS from KY.... :)

If for a second you think they are showing their full hand, you're crazy.

76 would be hard pressed to keep up with f1c.
I think US275 allows 80mm to run with f1c & ysi


Finally, something you and I agree on.


Nitrous cars dont have much more, they are jet limited.



You and I both know nitrous cars are capable of more than an 8.45. You think you couldnt build a car to fit in these rules and not run a bottom 8? Come on now.


Like you said though, it's all just pissin in the wind until FI cars show up....which will be next year :devil:


I say leave the rules alone, give the class another year with the same rules and let's take another shot at it.

That motor/car is already in the class. You race it every time you show up and get drug by the White SS from KY.... :)

If for a second you think they are showing their full hand, you're crazy.

ahhh, I assume things, so from what I see, is a setup that ran 8.0's on a unlimited Jet, and a setup that run 8.40's on a limited jet. Could I be wrong, yeah.

If their not showing full hand, good for them. Some of us just got junk to race from Indiana:bang: I'd love nothing more than to blow their doors off.

I could see a nitrous setup running bottom 8's with the current rules. Just someone has to build it and show up.

With the current rules you could build a 420" nitrous setup, make 980's on motor and spray it. Hell I am lucky to be making that on the spray now. If only I had the funds to do so, it would be done. anyone want to sponser a Real Street Car?? LOL

420" and makes 980 under the RS rules? I'd like to see that.
and if you could I Still dont think you could keep up with just a 26 jet.

If we get Strauss out there it might change your mind. :burn:

Finally, something you and I agree on.





You and I both know nitrous cars are capable of more than an 8.45. You think you couldnt build a car to fit in these rules and not run a bottom 8? Come on now.


Like you said though, it's all just pissin in the wind until FI cars show up....which will be next year :devil:


I say leave the rules alone, give the class another year with the same rules and let's take another shot at it.

On a 26 jet and under the cyl head rules they have it would be hard to do.

They wont change much if anything until they have to.
Which is how it should be.

420" and makes 980 under the RS rules? I'd like to see that.
and if you could I Still dont think you could keep up with just a 26 jet.

If we get Strauss out there it might change your mind. :burn:

HEADS:
Must be GM LS Based inline valve OEM or aftermarket cast aluminum head. Billet heads prohibited. Canted valve heads prohibited.

INTAKE MANIFOLD:
OEM or aftermarket composite or OEM style cast aluminum aftermarket intakes permitted deduct 25 pounds. Cast aluminum carb style intakes permitted. Intake must be generally available and mass produced. Sheet metal intakes permitted add 50 pounds.

I already seen a engine dynoed at my engine builder, that fits the rules and with a cast intake single carb, that made OVER 1k. and it was 420". and for what they want to run with it(NMCA Pro Stock/maybe All Motor) its not enough, so they are going to do their own Pro port version on the same cylinder head, and I am sure they can get what they are looking for, they always do. Said New setup should be on the dyno about middle next month.

and add the 26 jet, I am sure it could keep up.

I was being a little nice on the 980's, cause if I built it, it would be on a budget so I would have to skip a few high dollar parts that would hurt power a little bit. but still get the job done.

HEADS:
Must be GM LS Based inline valve OEM or aftermarket cast aluminum head. Billet heads prohibited. Canted valve heads prohibited.

INTAKE MANIFOLD:
OEM or aftermarket composite or OEM style cast aluminum aftermarket intakes permitted deduct 25 pounds. Cast aluminum carb style intakes permitted. Intake must be generally available and mass produced. Sheet metal intakes permitted add 50 pounds.

I already seen a engine dynoed at my engine builder, that fits the rules and with a cast intake single carb, that made OVER 1k. and it was 420". and for what they want to run with it(NMCA Pro Stock/maybe All Motor) its not enough, so they are going to do their own Pro port version on the same cylinder head, and I am sure they can get what they are looking for, they always do. Said New setup should be on the dyno about middle next month.

and add the 26 jet, I am sure it could keep up.

I was being a little nice on the 980's, cause if I built it, it would be on a budget so I would have to skip a few high dollar parts that would hurt power a little bit. but still get the job done.

I already knew you were going to say that. LOL !

Well when one shows up with N20 on it and runs fast I'll believe you.
I say it still doesnt beat the F1c, Goss has been in the 4's to the 1/8th with one at a heavier weight than these rules.

And if you think you can do it and other people think the blowers will do it then I guess the rules are fine. :)

I already knew you were going to say that. LOL !

Well when one shows up with N20 on it and runs fast I'll believe you.
I say it still doesnt beat the F1c, Goss has been in the 4's to the 1/8th with one at a heavier weight than these rules.

And if you think you can do it and other people think the blowers will do it then I guess the rules are fine. :)

yeah its hard to take in something from a guy with a slow car, but I :swing: off them and visit the shop enough(have a good friend that operates the dyno there) so I get an idea of most of the dyno numbers on a daily basis.

So yes I think it CAN be done, can I afford it, hell no.

LSW-2 heads on a 440"-460" plus engine would get pretty close to a 1000HP on the pump IMO with a max effort, - 930-950HP with lackluster effort. They are close to 450 cfm heads. Like BESstrokednova has said, a good builder such as BES can do it, if someone wants to invest that kind of money into a build - Lingenfelter obviously did.

The guys from KY might not have much left. 8.40's in good air was pretty close to all it had from what I know, I think they are showing their full hand. There are a couple little things they are looking to chase this off season I believe but I don't know how much it will yield on the track. Without an open hood scoop they might be stuck where they are at on picking up anymore et.

The F1R gear driven car (red Pontiac)....is it legal with the front core support cutup? I was curious about this set up, since I have a F1C to play with, but thought the current rules prohibited it.

Also, I am very curious in any rule modifications as they pertain to older cars with mini tubs and ladder bars as I have a possible entry in RS for this as well (N20).

That motor/car is already in the class. You race it every time you show up and get drug by the White SS from KY.... :)

If for a second you think they are showing their full hand, you're crazy.Ya with 470+ ci. and the best free money can buy, They are the ones to beat! 8.30s is about it for a N2o car IMO..... They need to keep the class affordable and try to stay over 8.50s So we don't need 25.5 cage, fire sup' system, And everything else that goes with it $$$$$! Stay under 427 ci, And just a D1sc, and 76mm, I cant see them going bottom 8s.

They need to keep the class affordable and try to stay over 8.50s So we don't need 25.5 cage, fire sup' system, And everything else that goes with it $$$$$! Stay under 427 ci, And just a D1sc, and 76mm, I cant see them going bottom 8s.



You might as well kiss that goodbye. You and I both know NMCA has made the decision 8.5 and slower is not what they are looking for in this class. Only sad part is the 76mm, but that seems to only apply to me on a limited budget. As soon as i get my LPE Sponsorship, I'll be ready to launch the death ray on the nitrous cars, hahahaha. Until then, we are just coming to make them sweat a little. :)

LSW-2 heads on a 440"-460" plus engine would get pretty close to a 1000HP on the pump IMO with a max effort, - 930-950HP with lackluster effort. They are close to 450 cfm heads. Like BESstrokednova has said, a good builder such as BES can do it, if someone wants to invest that kind of money into a build - Lingenfelter obviously did.

The guys from KY might not have much left. 8.40's in good air was pretty close to all it had from what I know, I think they are showing their full hand. There are a couple little things they are looking to chase this off season I believe but I don't know how much it will yield on the track. Without an open hood scoop they might be stuck where they are at on picking up anymore et.

The F1R gear driven car (red Pontiac)....is it legal with the front core support cutup? I was curious about this set up, since I have a F1C to play with, but thought the current rules prohibited it.

Also, I am very curious in any rule modifications as they pertain to older cars with mini tubs and ladder bars as I have a possible entry in RS for this as well (N20).

We already own that motor ... 460" and make 970hp (not legal canted valve head)
Dont think we could beat Strauss with a 26 jet in the car.

2 tack welds and he is legal.... f1c under 410" is at 3150lbs.

2 tack welds and he is legal.... f1c under 410" is at 3150lbs.

And that would be a bad-bitch, but until he brings it out, kills the class, and makes the rules adjust, it's a mute point IMO.


At the end of the day, f-it, just leave the rules alone.

LSW-2 heads on a 440"-460" plus engine would get pretty close to a 1000HP on the pump IMO with a max effort, - 930-950HP with lackluster effort. They are close to 450 cfm heads. Like BESstrokednova has said, a good builder such as BES can do it, if someone wants to invest that kind of money into a build - Lingenfelter obviously did.

The guys from KY might not have much left. 8.40's in good air was pretty close to all it had from what I know, I think they are showing their full hand. There are a couple little things they are looking to chase this off season I believe but I don't know how much it will yield on the track. Without an open hood scoop they might be stuck where they are at on picking up anymore et.

The F1R gear driven car (red Pontiac)....is it legal with the front core support cutup? I was curious about this set up, since I have a F1C to play with, but thought the current rules prohibited it.

Also, I am very curious in any rule modifications as they pertain to older cars with mini tubs and ladder bars as I have a possible entry in RS for this as well (N20).

Hell, I thought I seen 4 link on the LPE 2010? maybe they are trying to play the wishbone off as a TQ arm. it sure looks very similar to our Vega bracket car 4 link........ and where the core support in their car? only thing where the core WAS is some turbo piping and a turbo, maybe a blow off valve and piping also. but no core support I see? and I know my car dont have one at the moment, but its in the plans to be bolted back in like prestons did with their car, just have not got around to it yet.

Ya with 470+ ci. and the best free money can buy, They are the ones to beat! 8.30s is about it for a N2o car IMO..... They need to keep the class affordable and try to stay over 8.50s So we don't need 25.5 cage, fire sup' system, And everything else that goes with it $$$$$! Stay under 427 ci, And just a D1sc, and 76mm, I cant see them going bottom 8s.

8.50 up would make sense, but I think they already lost sight of that thought(if it ever was a thought) between 2010 and 2011 after those adjustments were made.

We already own that motor ... 460" and make 970hp (not legal canted valve head)Dont think we could beat Strauss with a 26 jet in the car.

2 tack welds and he is legal.... f1c under 410" is at 3150lbs.

Last time I looked a LSW-2 was not 'canted'.;)
F1C under 410" @ 3150# = good combo for the class IMO. Gots to be driven into the lanes and up to the starting line also......

And that would be a bad-bitch, but until he brings it out, kills the class, and makes the rules adjust, it's a mute point IMO.


At the end of the day, f-it, just leave the rules alone.

True, always lots of internet chatter.

Hell, I thought I seen 4 link on the LPE 2010? maybe they are trying to play the wishbone off as a TQ arm. it sure looks very similar to our Vega bracket car 4 link........ and where the core support in their car? only thing where the core WAS is some turbo piping and a turbo, maybe a blow off valve and piping also. but no core support I see? and I know my car dont have one at the moment, but its in the plans to be bolted back in like prestons did with their car, just have not got around to it yet.

That is an Outlaw Drag Radial roller IMO. Damnn nice car! Wrong class.

8.50 up would make sense, but I think they already lost sight of that thought(if it ever was a thought) between 2010 and 2011 after those adjustments were made.
That is an Outlaw Drag Radial roller IMO. Damnn nice car! Wrong class. They should look at the RS 275 rules that is getting very poplar and go off them. I race in the local NDRRA RS 275 and the rules are so far apart between NMCA and NDRRA. Keep it 8.50 and slower.

From 2011 Real Street Rules:

Maximum cubic inches for all combinations is 480
Preston's car is 461 Cubes...I know the air pump showed like 470, but even if it was he still weighed more than enough for that cube and was legal. Also when the jets were checked, they were legit with the right jet.

The 76mm rule in Real Street should be looked at heavily. I understand they did not want a turbo car to dominate this class, but with that turbo, it wouldn't even be competitive, much less dominate.

I would love to see a stock cube type all motor class and a stock cube type power adder class. Basic rules with a 76mm turbo or D1SC and equivalent.

I agree, the Lingenfelter car is an ODR car with a class 76mm turbo. At least the other cars in the class started out as a "street car."

what is all this hub-ub about core support? I'm not seeing anything in the rules specifically about it. I see the absolutely no touching of a frame rail, but WTF does the core support have to do with that? Dont touch the frame rails, and you're good in my book. If i heard of a fellow racer being DQ'd over that, I'd be pissed. I litereally just printed off the nmcadigital website the 2011 rules, and tried to re-read to find this core-support issue. I'm not seeing it on there anywhere?

And that would be a bad-bitch, but until he brings it out, kills the class, and makes the rules adjust, it's a mute point IMO.


At the end of the day, f-it, just leave the rules alone.

I agree and pretty sure I already said that. :confused:

Last time I looked a LSW-2 was not 'canted'.;)
F1C under 410" @ 3150# = good combo for the class IMO. Gots to be driven into the lanes and up to the starting line also......



No shit the LSW is not canted, what I am saying is we own a 460" motor that make 970 (which you guys said you would need) and knowing BOTH cars like I do its my opinion that Strauss could beat us IF we were limited to a 26 jet.

Driving either one to the starting line is NO PROBLEM.

This is all just "winter" talk.
they wont change any rules over it nor should they.

BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance, profiles, and dimensions. Factory roof and quarter panels must be used. Aftermarket fiberglass/carbon replacement panels
are limited to hood. Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted. Complete stock appearing front and rear bumpers are required. A hood must cover the entire induction system. Only OEM style Forward facing hood scoops are permitted.

I wonder what the ruling would be for opening the front bumper for air intake. License plate cover removed, etc. I believe the Lingenfelter car had everything enclosed as per the rules.

As far as the core support rule goes, I agree, it is not directly stated in the rules that it has to be there, or the original one does. I know the championship car still retained the stock one and there wasn't any questions that came up about that during inspection, but would be curious to know if anyone's car who had it modified one would have been dq'd during final inspection?? The entire front section of the Preston's car was stock appearing right down to the bumper insert.

I thought I remember reading somewhere NMCA doesn't allow modified core supports, might have been a different class. So many classes and different rules, can't keep them all straight going from memory.

Either way curious to see what gets changed, if anything. I am pretty sure there will be some changes, not exactly sure just what. Probably nothing extreme I am thinking, but we'll see.

I wonder what the ruling would be for opening the front bumper for air intake. License plate cover removed, etc. I believe the Lingenfelter car had everything enclosed as per the rules.




Not legal at least as far as turbo cars go. I know i have to remove my bellmouth :(


As if it isnt enough I'm out there with a broken off spork for a gunfight, I gotta take that thing off too, haha.

TURBOCHARGER:
Maximum size 76.0mm/2.992-Inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. All air entering the turbocharger must pass through the turbocharger inlet. Inlet housing is permitted a maximum inlet diameter of 3.072” where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the housing. Injection of any liquid, gas, or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing is prohibited. Turbocharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum. The tips of the impeller wheel may not be stepped, cut down, or notched to meet impeller tip-to-tip dimension (.500-inch will define the tip of the impeller wheel). Compressor wheel and housing may not be stepped, notched, or clipped; e, g ,. The contours must be continuous features from the inducer to the wheel exducer. Turbocharger combinations may NOT source air from hole in bumper or from valance of vehicle. Exotic material wheels Prohibited. Reducers prohibited.

I would wait to change that Tim, I saw the prelimanary rules and they will be aloud along with the LF88's

they let me put a LF88 on the car, and I will feel REALLY bad for all the other cars in the real street class(other than any other turbo car that shows up in turbo form....in 25.5 form...)


hahahahaha

they let me put a LF88 on the car, and I will feel REALLY bad for all the other cars in the real street class(other than any other turbo car that shows up in turbo form....in 25.5 form...)


hahahahaha

No kidding !!

Better let the F1r in and unlimited on the N20 side.

WoW!!! If the let LF88's in like the X275 88 Precision Turbo...lookout the rest of Real Street. Nitrous guys will have to be given unlimited jet or lower the weights tremendously, heck maybe even both!!!

I would wait to change that Tim, I saw the prelimanary rules and they will be aloud along with the LF88's

Are they taking a X275 approach with RS?

I find that hard to believe, but as popular as X275 is today, I could see it and then it will be a 7 second class, quite the difference from this past year based on the racers who entered.

If that is the case I would expect to see all the other power adders follow suit with Sear's X275 rule set? F1R's, multi stage N20, etc.

there goes the budget!

Pointless, most legit ls x275 cars would give the current ODR ls cars a HARD run for their money. No point in even having 2 classes at that point. I get the feeling koolrayz is just messing with me(I hope for the sc and nitrous guys).

there goes the budget!

LOL !!

You aint kiddin. :bomb:

BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance, profiles, and dimensions. Factory roof and quarter panels must be used. Aftermarket fiberglass/carbon replacement panels
are limited to hood. Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted. Complete stock appearing front and rear bumpers are required. A hood must cover the entire induction system. Only OEM style Forward facing hood scoops are permitted.


Get rid of this crap too... Decklids, hoods, and doors help with getting these to be within weight

I get the feeling koolrayz is just messing with me

:jest::jest::jest:

I say allow the LF 88(X275 88mm turbo), unlimited nitrous combos and canted valve heads....or just copy John Sears X275 rules and call it a day...

That is alll :chug:

sweet, 2 mid to high 7 second classes. sounds like a dumb move to me. not that many cars show up now cause their not fast enough.

sweet, 2 mid to high 7 second classes. sounds like a dumb move to me. not that many cars show up now cause their not fast enough.


And if you think your going to have a heads up class where all the cars run the same times, get real. EVERY class will always have someone clearly faster than the others, but that faster car doesn't always get down the track.

X275 is 1/8th mile, and I think this class should be 1/8th mile too.

The Prestons have an 8.3X car whether anyone wants to agree or not. I personally think real street should have a cubic inch limit, or use of a STD deck block and no tall decks. The average guy trying to run RS is not gonna go out and build a 460-470 inch motor for this class.


Canted valve heads with weight adder, unlimited nitrous on one kit, weight adder for 2 kits, LF88 for turbo guys, and some cubic in limits, oh and 1/8th mile on 275's.

And if you think your going to have a heads up class where all the cars run the same times, get real.

The Prestons have an 8.3X car whether anyone wants to agree or not. I personally think real street should have a cubic inch limit, or use of a STD deck block and no tall decks. The average guy trying to run RS is not gonna go out and build a 460-470 inch motor for this class oh and 1/8th mile on 275's.
Yes....Yes.... Yes... Cubic inch limit........... BUDGET!!!!!!!!!! Don't forget ........ BUDGET.
The RS 275 class is getting real big, And we have 15 to 20 races to go to with purses of $500 too $1000 on any given week end 100 miles or less. Verse 4 LSX races spread across the nation with total different Rules. RS 275 is going to be bigger then X275! And to keep the rules the same would be beneficial for all involved. Try to keep it slower then 8.50s, Or go to 1/8 mile format... And yes 275's!

Yes....Yes.... Yes... Cubic inch limit........... BUDGET!!!!!!!!!! Don't forget ........ BUDGET.
The RS 275 class is getting real big, And we have 15 to 20 races to go to with purses of $500 too $1000 on any given week end 100 miles or less. Verse 4 LSX races spread across the nation with total different Rules. RS 275 is going to be bigger then X275! And to keep the rules the same would be beneficial for all involved. Try to keep it slower then 8.50s, Or go to 1/8 mile format... And yes 275's!

I fit the RS 275 rules like a glove! to bad I am stuck up here in Ohio with all these local guys wanting to run 8.5's.

what to do, what to do:bomb:

And if you think your going to have a heads up class where all the cars run the same times, get real. EVERY class will always have someone clearly faster than the others, but that faster car doesn't always get down the track.

X275 is 1/8th mile, and I think this class should be 1/8th mile too.

The Prestons have an 8.3X car whether anyone wants to agree or not. I personally think real street should have a cubic inch limit, or use of a STD deck block and no tall decks. The average guy trying to run RS is not gonna go out and build a 460-470 inch motor for this class.


Canted valve heads with weight adder, unlimited nitrous on one kit, weight adder for 2 kits, LF88 for turbo guys, and some cubic in limits, oh and 1/8th mile on 275's.

your saying open the rules up. Prestons car is a 8.30 car on a limited jet, open up the jet and it run 7.90's or faster just like their 3rd gen car did.......

I have seriously thought about going NMRA racing cause there isnt shit to race a lsx car, and thats all I want to do is race. Might even have to end up just bracket racing crap:barf:

I fit the RS 275 rules like a glove! to bad I am stuck up here in Ohio with all these local guys wanting to run 8.5's.

what to do, what to do:bomb: Just wait, RS275 will be everywhere. I promise, The north is a little slow. You do have X275 up there right?

You do have X275 up there right?

Indy has a program very close to X275 and Milan Michigan has an X275 class

Rules, Rules, Rules.......let's just get them out there!

Everybody clearly wants them to fit there own car. They need to address X275 and RS275, Real Street at the Shootout seems to target RS275, not X275.

Canted valve heads and no tall deck, short deck and canted valve heads, sheetmetal intakes, dual throttle bodies, multi-stage N20, 88MM's, F1R's, etc. This is far from a fit for a Real Street class. You guys need an X275class, not to try and destroy the Real Street class. It's intent is not to be that class. I know, I saw the rough draft.:jest:

Let's get some rules!

Might even have to end up just bracket racing crap:barf:
Yeah, just do that crap.

Wait a second.....

Yeah, just do that crap.

Wait a second.....

already got 2 of those, 4 link super pro vega stretched 10" 2250lb little 383sb iron head roller motor. glide. runs 6 flats. and also got a 69 Nova thats going to be setup for Pro class.

Got enough bracket cars. just looking to do something different than dial in every pass....:zzz:

I dont see it going the X275 route.
They alredy run there own version of X275 and the Outlaw DR cars are not that much faster.

Seems to me they make 3-5 little changes annually to the classes. Like maybe RS will allow ladder bars which doesn't seem like a big deal. 76mm seems outgunned, why not allow an 85mm but keep it heavy.... Dunno.

85 is too big, although i would love to run one, haha. Realistically, if you want to keep it at around a 8.30-8.70 class, the turbo cars should get a true 80(no reducers). That should be enough to get competitive. Allow ladder bars like you said, and maybe see where that gets the class.


As much as i'm a nutswinger for RS275, LS1excitement, you're crazy if you think RS275 will ever eclipse x275. It's just never going to happen.

already got 2 of those, 4 link super pro vega stretched 10" 2250lb little 383sb iron head roller motor. glide. runs 6 flats. and also got a 69 Nova thats going to be setup for Pro class.

Got enough bracket cars. just looking to do something different than dial in every pass....:zzz:
I understand the appeal of a heads-up class. I just can't afford it versus the index/bracket stuff that allows me to go out and compete a couple dozen times a year for a fraction of the cost with little to no upkeep/testing of new stuff to keep the edge.

Okay, back to :zzz:

Derek

As much as i'm a nutswinger for RS275, LS1excitement, you're crazy if you think RS275 will ever eclipse x275. It's just never going to happen. You will be surprised.... It might not surpass X275 but the two will go hand and hand. A lot of people tried to build an X275 car and the class was just to fast paced couldn't keep up and quit or sold off....NOW there is a budget X275 called RS275 and it's getting big around here 10 15 cars in the class first year out!!! I can't wait for next year in NDRRA RS275 and PTRA TS275 class. I think we will see 20+ car's at the first race at Piedmont dragway in NC.

Like I said before Mike Fratena went consistant 8.50's with a few 8.40's in NMCA's old Street Radial class with a 365ci GEN1 Chevrolet with 215cc heads and a .550 lift HR camshaft limit and a T6 76mm from precision it can be done. I had this engine apart for technical inspection several times nothing special about it either. The Camaro from Lingenfelter will be the car to beat this year in RS.

Budget-minded thinking is important, especially today. I think the LSX Shootout will grow if this is kept in the rule making thought process. There has got to be a reason the series still can't fill the field in any of the heads up categories - $$$$. Sub 8.50 cars aren't cheap to build or run. Everyone in here knows that. 25.2 cage requirements and the power adder/engine hardware add up pretty quick. Not that it isn't exciting to watch, but if the car counts aren't there?? I personally am interested in either a RS275 type of class or the current Real Street rules at the LSX Shooutout (with allowing a ladder bar, that nobody seems to care about keeping out), or to just regulate the current rules back a tiny bit more. From a money outlay perspective, just where I would like to be as I am sure many others (current attendees) would like be at too.

I am game for an 8.50'ish up class, but then again I can always just race Index too. :zzz: LOL. Actually some very competitive racing! You just can't ignore the fact there are usually over 100 cars in Index at these events and only 5-6 in the heads up categories. Pull some of the single digit Index racers down into RS. They are already there racing, unlike alot of people claiming they will support the series "if this", and "if that" were to happen.

Even a competitive RS car is decent investment, and then to actually go and make all the races, etc, etc. Don't forget where the current economy stands, and note that it ain't budging.

BTW, 76MM turbos are fine, the LPE car went 161-162 mph in the 1/4. They get the short time figured out, look out, they were still figuring it out at the end of the season. Can't really change the rules until one shows its full hand. Same goes for the centrifugals, there hasn't been but one of those show up, and it ran well for what it was. The only combo really known is the N20 combo (Prestons). Maybe there is a little left there too. 8.30's?

Let's get them rules out!

BTW, I don't see NMCA excluding the LPE car with a rule modification. They built it from a clean slate to the current rules and support the series. It is here to stay IMO, at least for another year. I am pretty sure I read somewhere the intent for them is to run the entire 2012 season in RS.

Again, my gut feeling is subtle changes to be expected in RS, and who knows what in the other classes. Not sure what surprises we may be in store for. New class?> Maybe?

Yes....Yes.... Yes... Cubic inch limit........... BUDGET!!!!!!!!!! Don't forget ........ BUDGET.
The RS 275 class is getting real big, And we have 15 to 20 races to go to with purses of $500 too $1000 on any given week end 100 miles or less. Verse 4 LSX races spread across the nation with total different Rules. RS 275 is going to be bigger then X275! And to keep the rules the same would be beneficial for all involved. Try to keep it slower then 8.50s, Or go to 1/8 mile format... And yes 275's!

Limit cubes to 427, can't go much smaller than that for a few reasons...

Budget minded, Yes, for many reasons...

RS275...Been watching it for years, its a poor mans X275 which is perfect for me. They just don't have it in the North East.

The NMCA has to definitely put the brakes on Real Street before too many guys go too fast and then it becomes a sub 8.50 class.
Costs just go wild anything below 8.50.

That was the whole idea behind the class an affordable power adder class.

The other two HU classes are big bucks.

Now with the LPE car...low budget is out the window to some extent.

Preston is the only guy that has gone sub 8.50 and that can be stopped with a little weight added or slight rules adjustments.

JMHO

I'm gonna start pulling weight out of my junk (3924lbs race weight) and am planning on at least attempting to run RS this coming year.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the rule changes are, I ran the LSX Rumble all last year, hope to start leaning on the ol' girl this year and at least make the show!!

Sounds like RS will have a good size field next year, should be fun.

LPE's 400k dollar budget and gets puts on the trailer by a RS275 formula.

I dont see anything budget about LPE's car. and nothing budget about Prestons 25.5 lsw headed 470" setup. Lets get real.

If you want the class to be low 8's again, I'll stand back and watch the class die. Does nothing to me.

I support this for the love of the LSX, even if the series dies i got plenty of other places to race my junk.

I'm gonna start pulling weight out of my junk (3924lbs race weight) and am planning on at least attempting to run RS this coming year.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the rule changes are, I ran the LSX Rumble all last year, hope to start leaning on the ol' girl this year and at least make the show!!

thats what i had hoped to do as well but from the looks of how fast the class is getting ill be stuck back in index again :zzz: i like the idea of limiting the cubes to 427 to slow the nitrous cars (as opposed to reducing the jet)

Nitrous 440 3150
2.0 lbs per cubic inch assessed to base weights, up to the maximum cubic inch permitted in the class

So a 461 raced at 3192. I thought I had heard when they pumped the motor it kept coming up 470 cid, is Paul F saying that I was over by Andy's DR car. And I thought I also heard they weighed enough to be legal at 470 cid also?

Seems to me that NMCA will look pretty hard at the results, and go from there.

I know some folks over the course of this year talked about how they can't afford to build a 460-470 cid engine but they have serious interest in this class. How about keep the 2lbs + per cubic inch over 440 + and also add 75 lbs for tall decks. Think about it, you can currently run 480 cid right now, to Joe Racer that's a pricey jump.

thats what i had hoped to do as well but from the looks of how fast the class is getting ill be stuck back in index again :zzz: i like the idea of limiting the cubes to 427 to slow the nitrous cars (as opposed to reducing the jet)

you know, I see that and chances are I'll never get my heap into a mid 8sec range, but to me, I'd rather try. you just never know when someone will blow the tires off next to you. Plus, the heads up classes need a kick in the ass, obviously rumble doesn't need the car count, so I'll throw my hat in, try to qualify and see where it gets me.

In RS, cars should have to drive to the lanes & straight to the scales/tech station.

If a chute is pulled, gather it up and continue driving to the scales/tech station.

No crew members with golf carts, tools, lifting the hood. etc allowed till after the scales/tech.

In RS, cars should have to drive to the lanes & straight to the scales/tech station.

If a chute is pulled, gather it up and continue driving to the scales/tech station.

No crew members with golf carts, tools, lifting the hood. etc allowed till after the scales/tech.

Disagree, stupid rule. What is the point? Weight and power adder in conjunction with tire is the limiting factor. What difference does it make if the car is driven to the staging lanes or driven onto the scales under power?! Next thing is proof of insurance. LOLOL. This is a heads up race, not true street.

Nitrous 440 3150
2.0 lbs per cubic inch assessed to base weights, up to the maximum cubic inch permitted in the class

So a 461 raced at 3192. I thought I had heard when they pumped the motor it kept coming up 470 cid, is Paul F saying that I was over by Andy's DR car. And I thought I also heard they weighed enough to be legal at 470 cid also?

Seems to me that NMCA will look pretty hard at the results, and go from there.

I know some folks over the course of this year talked about how they can't afford to build a 460-470 cid engine but they have serious interest in this class. How about keep the 2lbs + per cubic inch over 440 + and also add 75 lbs for tall decks. Think about it, you can currently run 480 cid right now, to Joe Racer that's a pricey jump.

John, short deck and tall deck blocks shouldn't be an issue. BTW, the class winner doesn't even run a tall deck block. I looked right at it during the pumping. It is definitely a short deck engine. I know, it must have a pretty short CD piston in it for that much stroke if it is 'truly' that big.

I was down there too (Indy tech), and the pump wasn't being all that accurate from what I remember, different readings each time. One measured as big as 470" I think, a couple of other pumps in the 460's. It didn't matter what the size was because they were plenty heavy, well within the rules. That car is a runner - plain and simple, and they know how to race.

BTW, the engine I have to run (if the chassis rules open up) just so happens to be a tall deck, but it is smaller than 460" by a good bit. LOL Damn, I could be getting penalized before I am even legal.:judge::cheers: Needless to say, I don't care for your suggestions. lol

Let's get some rules out!!

All they need is Cubic inch rule..... 427 or smaller and tire rule 275s. If you have more then 427ci and 25.5 cage why not step it up to DR class, And play with the big boys.

I think we should require a w-2 statements before entering too!



(I kid I kid)

I think we should require a w-2 statements before entering too!



(I kid I kid)

then all you guys would laugh at me :bang:

Damn, how about a 480" LS with All Pro LSW -2, All Pro single 4500 cast intake and .026" jet in one gun at a 3230# race weight, oh, plus 50# for the dry sump you will need to deal with all the windage from the big arm. So figure 3280#, I think you could go 20's no problem in the right car. :secret2:

C'mon who is the baller that is going to do it? Might just take that to beat that LPE car.

All jack jawing aside, it would probably do it,,,,easy.

I think we should require a w-2 statements before entering too!



(I kid I kid)

Yeah, there should be limit on how much your gross annually to race this class. Add it to the rules. Wait a minute, we don't have any rules!
And to think I may not even step up into this class...........lol

Disagree, stupid rule. What is the point? Weight and power adder in conjunction with tire is the limiting factor. What difference does it make if the car is driven to the staging lanes or driven onto the scales under power?! Next thing is proof of insurance. LOLOL. This is a heads up race, not true street.

So you're ok with a crew in a golf cart driving up to a car at the end of the track and opening the hood, trunk, etc. in a class with nos jet, weight, ect. rules?
(driving to the lanes don't really matter)

So you're ok with a crew in a golf cart driving up to a car at the end of the track and opening the hood, trunk, etc. in a class with nos jet, weight, ect. rules?
(driving to the lanes don't really matter)

No more worried than watching any decent racer at any other nmca/nmra/nhra/Adrl/etc race. We, as racers, share the burden to point out when others are cheating. It's nothin new. Its up to you to point it out to the officials if you think someone's cheating. I seriously doubt that this is the class to do it in(considering the payout, what's the point?)

No more worried than watching any decent racer at any other nmca/nmra/nhra/Adrl/etc race. We, as racers, share the burden to point out when others are cheating. It's nothin new. Its up to you to point it out to the officials if you think someone's cheating. I seriously doubt that this is the class to do it in(considering the payout, what's the point?)

What's the big deal here, I'm only talking about driving another 1/8-3/8 mile.

Why should racers have to sit & watch crews of winning racers work on their cars at the end of the track?

Disagree, stupid rule. What is the point? Weight and power adder in conjunction with tire is the limiting factor. What difference does it make if the car is driven to the staging lanes or driven onto the scales under power?! Next thing is proof of insurance. LOLOL. This is a heads up race, not true street.

stupid rule? and whats the point? it says

BALLAST:
Must be NHRA/IHRA approved mounting - Maximum 100# per individual weight bar
No loose or unsecured ballast allowed and will be grounds for disqualification. Vehicles are required to cross scales after each qualifying run and eliminations rounds. Vehicles must be driven to the lanes. Vehicle cannot be towed until it passes the scales.

in the rules............. but most everyone was towing/pushing as much as possible. I towed back after crossing scales to save race fuel, other than that I would drive mine. oh and mine is tagged, and insured. so if you want to start that rule I'd be good with it LOL

you know, I see that and chances are I'll never get my heap into a mid 8sec range, but to me, I'd rather try. you just never know when someone will blow the tires off next to you. Plus, the heads up classes need a kick in the ass, obviously rumble doesn't need the car count, so I'll throw my hat in, try to qualify and see where it gets me.

thats what I was thinking entering all motor with my junk.
And the index is boring to drive 8 hours for.

I dont want to sound like I want a class to be made just for MY car. When I posted the rules to import vrs domestic all motor. But I would love to see a class to pull alot of the guys out of index into a slower headup class for cars running 10.5, 9.9 range, and still have a 10.9 quilfy
Like PSJ said a slower street all motor class.

Do you guys think its possible to have class like that. Base weight low enough for stock heads setups and smaller CID 346, or 6L and under. And have it competitive for cars with aftermarket ported heads, and bigger motors. or will the cars get too heavy?

I don't know alot about it and other steups. but somthing like this taking thous rules and getting then lighter, that adding weight for better heads




No power adders
275 DR or 28x10.5 slicks
stock suspension, mufflers, 2 front seats, carpeted, and interior panels. yada yada

Heads(GM).................... Max Displacement Car & Driver Minimum Weight
LS1 LS2 LS6..............................Un-Ported as cast Up to 348c 2850
LS3/L92 heads…………..…………… .Un-Ported as cast Up to 348ci. 2950

LS1, LS2 LS6…................ .Un-Ported as cast Up to 366ci. 2950
LS3,L92 heads……………….………..Un-Ported as cast Up to 366ci. 3050

LS1, LS2, LS6...............…Un-Ported as cast Up to 383ci. 3150
LS3, L92.........................Un-Ported as cast Up to 383ci 3250

LS1, LS2, LS6...............…Un-Ported as cast Up to 427ci 3250
LS3, L92.........................Un-Ported as cast Up to 427ci 3350
LS7 heads…………………………Un-Ported as cast Up to 427ci. 3400

(not sure about bigger motors?.. ERL 500 cube motors street guys are out there? The LSX 454?)
(the LS7 weights are more realistic then the WCF 3500, not sure what to do for the camaro5 and g8 guys? I dont see many of them)


Ported GM heads (exc c5r) add 400
Ported aftermaket heads add 500

(not sure what to do about for slower down ported heads, is 500 across that easy? Thats 50 HP?
TSP will clean up, but I dont know how much weight before you start knocking out cars. But want to keep the weights down, so a stock heads c6 can qualify too)


Intakes

no sheet metal intakes
Any FAST/BBK/ stock style intakes 80/85/90/92/102mm TB
OEM intakes subtract 100 pounds
Cast carb style intake (MAST/edlebrock) add 150
(not sure about the cast holley tunnel ram thing?)

Like I said before Mike Fratena went consistant 8.50's with a few 8.40's in NMCA's old Street Radial class with a 365ci GEN1 Chevrolet with 215cc heads and a .550 lift HR camshaft limit and a T6 76mm from precision it can be done. I had this engine apart for technical inspection several times nothing special about it either. The Camaro from Lingenfelter will be the car to beat this year in RS.

This the guy.

http://www.precisionturbo.net/racers/Mike-Fratena/95

LPE has been 164 and 8.60's (corrected from earlier post), but plenty of others have done it too, and been faster at weight (see link). The 76MM rule is fine!

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420957

The class winner N20 entry hasn't gone this fast (mph)? Power adders look to be pretty equal so far.

If you all only knew lol. All this talk about the Prestons. The pump was
incorrect because its a 463 to be exact and had it been a 470 it was
over the weight limit to start with. I will bet my years salary that it
dosent make no where even close to 900 on the dyno. This aint their
first rodeo in drag racing. I've seen them take a small block ford in
a mustang and the fastest pass it had ever made in the 1/8 by
the previous owner was a 5.38 and after they had it a couple times
out went a 5.15 with it on the same jet. Why dont you guys just
get to working and testing like these guys do and maybe you can go
compete with them. Changing any rules will not matter because they
will test until they are leading the game. As for as the 8.40's at indy,
what you seen was what you would get because that was it nothing more available or it would of been there. This motor that you all are so worried
about is 7 year old technology. Its not always about the motor, maybe
a little tuning and suspension plays more of a part than you think.
I would venture to say that some of you real street racers could swap
cars with them and they would still beat you.

If you all only knew lol. All this talk about the Prestons. The pump was
incorrect because its a 463 to be exact and had it been a 470 it was
over the weight limit to start with. I will bet my years salary that it
dosent make no where even close to 900 on the dyno. This aint their
first rodeo in drag racing. I've seen them take a small block ford in
a mustang and the fastest pass it had ever made in the 1/8 by
the previous owner was a 5.38 and after they had it a couple times
out went a 5.15 with it on the same jet. Why dont you guys just
get to working and testing like these guys do and maybe you can go
compete with them. Changing any rules will not matter because they
will test until they are leading the game. As for as the 8.40's at indy,
what you seen was what you would get because that was it nothing more available or it would of been there. This motor that you all are so worried
about is 7 year old technology. Its not always about the motor, maybe
a little tuning and suspension plays more of a part than you think.
I would venture to say that some of you real street racers could swap
cars with them and they would still beat you.



Go nut-swing in another forum. It doesn't have a place here.

If you all only knew lol. All this talk about the Prestons. The pump was
incorrect because its a 463 to be exact and had it been a 470 it was
over the weight limit to start with. I will bet my years salary that it
dosent make no where even close to 900 on the dyno. This aint their
first rodeo in drag racing. I've seen them take a small block ford in
a mustang and the fastest pass it had ever made in the 1/8 by
the previous owner was a 5.38 and after they had it a couple times
out went a 5.15 with it on the same jet. Why dont you guys just
get to working and testing like these guys do and maybe you can go
compete with them. Changing any rules will not matter because they
will test until they are leading the game. As for as the 8.40's at indy,
what you seen was what you would get because that was it nothing more available or it would of been there. This motor that you all are so worried
about is 7 year old technology. Its not always about the motor, maybe
a little tuning and suspension plays more of a part than you think.
I would venture to say that some of you real street racers could swap
cars with them and they would still beat you.

hmmm well let see. 463 lsx block > 418 6.0L block. Square port heads > Cathedral port heads. Who knows what crazy ass camshaft is has, but I am sure it blows away my 270's 780's bracket camshaft. Hell they wont even drive it to the lanes.

Plus I was running a T56 6 speed(you know, a stock style trans these cars came with) having to clutch assist shift it.

I was 3205 at indy, I could be 200 lbs lighter to start it right off, ditch the 6 speed(which I am) at which I did cut some 1.2x's 60ft times so lets not act like I didnt do any testing or I was some halfass that dont have a clue. Just couldnt shift this trans as fast as I want.

I know there is no excuse, but thats where I am coming from. Just dont come in here acting like none of us know what we are doing. I dont take very well to it.

I'll give them all the credit they deserve. They earned it.

Go nut-swing in another forum. It doesn't have a place here.

We do our own racing me and my son in outlaw 8.5 so no need to nut
swing. These guys are my best friends and I just get tired of seeing
all this whining about them and wanting to change rules because they
are faster than you all. I went with them to indy and I asked the tech
officials myself about towing to the lanes. Instead of people crying about
it why didnt they do the same. Nobody was breaking the rules here because
as for as I know the NMCA runs the event and they made the decision.

hmmm well let see. 463 lsx block > 418 6.0L block. Square port heads > Cathedral port heads. Who knows what crazy ass camshaft is has, but I am sure it blows away my 270's 780's bracket camshaft. Hell they wont even drive it to the lanes.

Plus I was running a T56 6 speed(you know, a stock style trans these cars came with) having to clutch assist shift it.

I was 3205 at indy, I could be 200 lbs lighter to start it right off, ditch the 6 speed(which I am) at which I did cut some 1.2x's 60ft times so lets not act like I didnt do any testing or I was some halfass that dont have a clue. Just couldnt shift this trans as fast as I want.

I know there is no excuse, but thats where I am coming from. Just dont come in here acting like none of us know what we are doing. I dont take very well to it.

I'll give them all the credit they deserve. They earned it.
Looks like to me then you need to change some things.

We do our own racing me and my son in outlaw 8.5 so no need to nut
swing. These guys are my best friends and I just get tired of seeing
all this whining about them and wanting to change rules because they
are faster than you all. I went with them to indy and I asked the tech
officials myself about towing to the lanes. Instead of people crying about
it why didnt they do the same. Nobody was breaking the rules here because
as for as I know the NMCA runs the event and they made the decision.

DAMN, I'll just ask them next time if I can up my nitrous jet, cause I cant keep up. Maybe they will say ok for the smaller cube motor.

shit can go on for ever on any rule written. get what I mean???

Sorry dude, I got limited funds, thats why I am trying to run a LIMITED class.

I only got 12k or so in my engine, I bet its well under half what they got in theirs, to only run .4 faster than a guy with a T56, I think I did a little homework, while working on a budget.

I am sure I can change a few things and close the gap. Do I think I can out run them? no chance. But sure will look nice with 2 white Real Street Camaro's hanging the front tires next year:D

Summary:

NMCAJEFF is gonna bring up Mike Fratena every time someone brings up a 76mm Turbo. Congrats to mike on his times with a limited cube SBC with strict rules. We are talking about LSX based engine here. While the same very Different.

76mm Turbo setups can be made to work in the 8.50 range. Wont deny it. Anyone wants to prove it Bring me a car and a blank check. I will gladly show you how.

We all have seen what LPE can do with the budget they have. They will make their combo work. They just need the time to do so.

Everyone will Bitch about the Preston’s winning races. They are good at what they do. PERIOD. Get over it. Build a combo to beat them or be happy with second place.

Limiting cubes to no more than 427ci is just an excuse for the guys with 427ci or less engines.

Driving to the lanes I agree with.

Nitrous cars driving across the scales not so much. Of course everyone with a NA or Boosted Combo will bitch if the Nitrous cars are not driven across the scales. They all Tune off WBO2 logs. The Nitrous Guys read plugs. Common sense here. This is easily taken care of. More Officials at the Finish line watching what is going on. Easy enough.

As far as budgets, Funding, yada, yada, We all know how it goes. You have to pay to play. If ya cant play in the class you are running, then go Pay more and come back, or go back to 8.5” or Limited 275 or what ever suits you.

All this rambling is funny at best.

At the End of the dayhere is what I would suggest:

LSX OutLaw DR
LSX275 1/8 Mile (Holley LSFest Rules)
LSX All Motor
LSX True Street
LSX Rumble

Get rid of the damn real street class all together.

DAMN, I'll just ask them next time if I can up my nitrous jet, cause I cant keep up. Maybe they will say ok for the smaller cube motor.

shit can go on for ever on any rule written. get what I mean???

Sorry dude, I got limited funds, thats why I am trying to run a LIMITED class.

I only got 12k or so in my engine, I bet its well under half what they got in theirs, to only run .4 faster than a guy with a T56, I think I did a little homework, while working on a budget.

I am sure I can change a few things and close the gap. Do I think I can out run them? no chance. But sure will look nice with 2 white Real Street Camaro's hanging the front tires next year:D
Actually whether you believe it or not your motor is pretty close in price to theirs and it don't make no where near the horsepower some may think.
BTW .4 isnt that easy made up. It's gonna be .6 next year.

Actually whether you believe it or not your motor is pretty close in price to theirs and it don't make no where near the horsepower some may think.
BTW .4 isnt that easy made up. It's gonna be .6 next year.


Do your arms hurt from swinging off their nuts all the time?

7 year old technology huh? Good try but I don't believe a word coming out of your mouth. Maybe the price they are telling you is a little low, but we all know how much it takes to go fast. Or maybe they don't really know how much things really cost these days.....:secret2:

Anytime they want to line up with another nitrous LS car, I'm game :devil:

Summary:

As far as budgets, Funding, yada, yada, We all know how it goes. You have to pay to play. If ya cant play in the class you are running, then go Pay more and come back, or go back to 8.5” or Limited 275 or what ever suits you.

All this rambling is funny at best.

At the End of the dayhere is what I would suggest:

LSX OutLaw DR
LSX275 1/8 Mile (Holley LSFest Rules)
LSX All Motor
LSX True Street
LSX Rumble

Get rid of the damn real street class all together.

I agree 100% with that potential class list :chug:

I agree 100% with that potential class list :chug:

so do I

Only reason I want to see a specif weight penalty for the tall deck is that it's a small way to offset the big jump in cubes. Most of us just want to see some good racing. Next year if I can, for really any class, I'll try to help swing sponsor $ to those racers who could use some help. No promises but if folks are interested in some help, email me at john@motorsports-media.com and I'll try to network around for you guys. Please don't email me if I personally know you make good money or if you have not been to any of the races in the last two years.

Good stuff in this thread !

Do your arms hurt from swinging off their nuts all the time?

7 year old technology huh? Good try but I don't believe a word coming out of your mouth. Maybe the price they are telling you is a little low, but we all know how much it takes to go fast. Or maybe they don't really know how much things really cost these days.....:secret2:

Anytime they want to line up with another nitrous LS car, I'm game :devil:
No nut swinging here bud just best friends. I went with them and know what
was spent on the motor for your info so its not like its hearsay. 7 year old
technology is because they have had the motor that long. It set on a stand
3 years before even putting it in a car. Believe what you want your entitled
to your opinion just like anyone else. And for the record its not a tall deck
motor either.

Good stuff in this thread !

Yes indeed! :corn:

Do your arms hurt from swinging off their nuts all the time?

7 year old technology huh? Good try but I don't believe a word coming out of your mouth. Maybe the price they are telling you is a little low, but we all know how much it takes to go fast. Or maybe they don't really know how much things really cost these days.....:secret2:

Anytime they want to line up with another nitrous LS car, I'm game :devil:

Mr.Brian Black, OUR motors are not in the same league, i have a 461 with all pro inline valve head with one kit plumed and tuned by a 17 year old, you have a 4xx with mozez canted valve heads sheet metal intake and two throttle bodys with one kit, and youve been .03 faster? 5.13@ 138mph aint to far behind your 5.10. so if you get your car to 3250lbs and and in lsx real street trim and a 26 pill and ill take some...

Mr.Brian Black, OUR motors are not in the same league, i have a 461 with all pro inline valve head with one kit plumed and tuned by a 17 year old, you have a 4xx with mozez canted valve heads sheet metal intake and two throttle bodys with one kit, and youve been .03 faster? 5.13@ 138mph aint to far behind your 5.10. so if you get your car to 3250lbs and and in lsx real street trim and a 26 pill and ill take some...

At the LS Fest and the rest of the season I was sitting right at 3300 lbs....plus or minus a few pounds depending on how much Bull $hit I eat.....

5.13 @ 138, 7 year old technology, 461 cubes....something sure smells fishy here! I may be a few years older, but your line of $hit doesn't carry too much weight with me. In 2010, your boys told me the engine in your blue car was a tall deck, and also saw the for sale ad on that motor saying it was a tall deck. So who's blowing smoke here junior?

And for your nut swinging pal saying its only got 8.40's in it.....with a 5.13 1/8th ET thats alot faster than your saying it is. Do it on a 275 and its worth alot more than using slicks. Any genius could make a slick work......

I'll gladly take a lane....any time!

I wondered how long it would take to draw you out BTW. You came out of hiding A LOT faster than I thought to defend your pal :chug:

If you think the NMCA cares about your concerns look again. I chased the street radial class for 3 yrs. The last yr they opened the turbo rules up to76mm and let someone dominate and kill the class. The next yr they killed the class and made it a 275 class. Try recouping money on a .550 lift 14:1 ls engine. Can't say I wouldn't do it again but I'd sure be more cautious.

As for the preston's I'll attest to the car and it's results. They do a lot of testing and run it to the limit every weekend. If you expect to throw something together and run with anyone much less someone that tests a lot, good luck. It takes seat time and experience.

If you think the NMCA cares about your concerns look again. I chased the street radial class for 3 yrs. The last yr they opened the turbo rules up to76mm and let someone dominate and kill the class. The next yr they killed the class and made it a 275 class. Try recouping money on a .550 lift 14:1 ls engine. Can't say I wouldn't do it again but I'd sure be more cautious.

As for the preston's I'll attest to the car and it's results. They do a lot of testing and run it to the limit every weekend. If you expect to throw something together and run with anyone much less someone that tests a lot, good luck. It takes seat time and experience.

Ready ready to get back in the Mix Jessie?

Ready ready to get back in the Mix Jessie?

I think my 370CI .550 lift motor would give RS a good run. It's gone now though.

I wondered how long it would take to draw you out BTW. You came out of hiding A LOT faster than I thought to defend your pal :chug:

There's no need to defend me I am a big boy. I just dont like to read idiot
post's like your's talking shit and not knowing what your talking about.
Big boy get in real street trim and get a lane beside it in florida. The 5.13
your talking about was with a big jet so get your shit straight. Maybe some
of you need to get of the board and start working on your shit or get that
ass busted again.

As for the preston's I'll attest to the car and it's results. They do a lot of testing and run it to the limit every weekend. If you expect to throw something together and run with anyone much less someone that tests a lot, good luck. It takes seat time and experience.[/QUOTE]


Some just don't understand what you said but maybe they will soon enough.

There's no need to defend me I am a big boy. I just dont like to read idiot
post's like your's talking shit and not knowing what your talking about.
Big boy get in real street trim and get a lane beside it in florida. The 5.13
your talking about was with a big jet so get your shit straight. Maybe some
of you need to get of the board and start working on your shit or get that
ass busted again.


Idiot posts like mine? I saw the for sale ad when it was up for sale previously on racingjunk and I even called for info on it. Maybe 1-2 years ago.

Get my shit straight? Your boy Mr. Preston said he ran the 5.13 in real street trim with a 26 jet... Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is saying here. Or someone is FULL OF $HIT.

You can take those real street rules and hang them off of Prestons nuts along with yourself if you want, I don't care. I run X275 at several different tracks so why build a car for 4 races....waste of time and effort. And how do you even know that RS is going to be around in 2012???

I don't care if he runs a 56 jet, I'll still line up besides him.....both of us on a 275....see who the better tuner is :D

Oh and I'm working on mine....just got my new headers from KY Turbo and as of today the car is down 200 lbs and is on par for another 100+ pounds....for a total of 300 lbs lighter than last year.... (just in case you "idiots" couldn't add up numbers). :D

We all know testing makes one combo better than the other....Thats how I did well this year on a 275....

Idiot posts like mine? I saw the for sale ad when it was up for sale previously on racingjunk and I even called for info on it. Maybe 1-2 years ago.

Get my shit straight? Your boy Mr. Preston said he ran the 5.13 in real street trim with a 26 jet... Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is saying here. Or someone is FULL OF $HIT.

You can take those real street rules and hang them off of Prestons nuts along with yourself if you want, I don't care. I run X275 at several different tracks so why build a car for 4 races....waste of time and effort. And how do you even know that RS is going to be around in 2012???

I don't care if he runs a 56 jet, I'll still line up besides him.....both of us on a 275....see who the better tuner is :D

Oh and I'm working on mine....just got my new headers from KY Turbo and as of today the car is down 200 lbs and is on par for another 100+ pounds....for a total of 300 lbs lighter than last year.... (just in case you "idiots" couldn't add up numbers). :D

We all know testing makes one combo better than the other....Thats how I did well this year on a 275....
I really dont think it was advertised as a tall deck considering it isn't and I really don't think you where told it ran a 5.13 with a 26 jet considering it didn't. If you are looking to grudge race then I guess we can pick whatever combo we want to line up against you the way you set. Like I said get in real street trim and line up and then we can see how good you are but until then phuck off. BTW 5.10 with your combo isn't impressive. You keep talking about nuts makes me wonder about you!!!

I really dont think it was advertised as a tall deck considering it isn't and I really don't think you where told it ran a 5.13 with a 26 jet considering it didn't. If you are looking to grudge race then I guess we can pick whatever combo we want to line up against you the way you set. Like I said get in real street trim and line up and then we can see how good you are but until then phuck off.

Hahaha :D

Are you sure you aren't one of the Prestons? Because this sure sounds like your one of them.... Can you tell me if the Prestons will be around next year to race? :chug:

Why don't you tell your boys to grow a set of balls and strap on some 275's and run X275 classes with the big boys... Time to step out of highschool and enter the real world....:devil:

Wow, busy over the holidays,,,,,

I can attest to the engine in the Preston's car being a short deck. I was going to do some trading a couple of years back on it and Shawn sent me all the specs on it. (I am bet they are glad now they didn't trade!!) I would have sworn at that many inches it was a TD also, in fact, I didn't believe him until he sent me the Ross piston spec sheet and pictures of it that I could blow up on my 'puter. I also got dyno sheets from him at that time. I'd have to look and see if I still have them, I do recall HP was in the lower 800's because I remember it was fairly close to the pump gas BBC I had we were working a deal on. I wanted something LS based and comprehable.

There is no doubt it is a short deck engine, not that it really matters what it is. It runs. It would only matter if the NMCA adjusted rules about tall deck apps to slow this car down, but then it still wouldn't affect this particular car,,,, the point I tried to make in a previous post.

I talked to them in Indy and Bowling Green and they said they freshened it for 2011 after 160 something runs on the bigger jet (rules allowed it then) in 2010 and put it back together. I looked right at it then, it is still a short deck. Ain't real hard to figure out from looking at it.

They run a GMPP LS7 intake also which is easy for anyone to see, no spacers under it. I believe there are alot of pics of this thing on the internet somewhere from all their winnings. No secret that I know of, he is a good guy and told a stranger all about it.

I told him to put a real intake on it and make another 50HP.:eek2:

I said it in 2010 on YB when they went 7.99 that it was impressive for what it was, because I knew what it was. Not to mention the age of his boys tuning and driving the car. It is the real deal.

I do find it somewhat strange some of the other LSX'ers stuff doesn't run as good as it should by comparison to this car. BTW, that is not a knock, just an observation. I only know what I read from time to time on the internet along with the pics I see. Making laps is how these guys get ahead.

NOW, LET's GET SOME RULES for 2012!!!!

Good luck to all in 2012.

PSJohn, sent you a message.

Hahaha :D

Are you sure you aren't one of the Prestons? Because this sure sounds like your one of them.... Can you tell me if the Prestons will be around next year to race? :chug:

Why don't you tell your boys to grow a set of balls and strap on some 275's and run X275 classes with the big boys... Time to step out of highschool and enter the real world....:devil:
One just graduated and the other is still in high school for that matter 17 and 20 years old.
Your motor vs the prestons motor get a life. And you think your impressive wow!
I will admit you have a nice car but its like me saying to a 6.50 index racer that
wins all the time to get a lane with our outlaw 8.5 ride. Maybe you need to be worried about your ass getting handed to you in your own class there big boy!!

I don't care if he runs a 56 jet, I'll still line up besides him.....both of us on a 275....see who the better tuner is :D....

Thats funny right there.

One just graduated and the other is still in high school for that matter 17 and 20 years old.
Your motor vs the prestons motor get a life. And you think your impressive wow!
I will admit you have a nice car but its like me saying to a 6.50 index racer that
wins all the time to get a lane with our outlaw 8.5 ride. Maybe you need to be worried about your ass getting handed to you in your own class there big boy!!

Yeah my car is nice, its shiny, but it also runs ok too. I ran 350 lbs OVER class weight this year and was still competitive....just wait till spring when I'm down to 2950 lbs race ready :engarde:

You already said you can compete with me in a previous post. So why are you taking steps back and comparing yourself to a 6.50 index car??? You shouldnt be scared of a 430 inch engine with that big beast you boys have. Your a typical grudge racer who doesn't want to get put back into the trailer...

I'm not worried about my own class as there is always someone faster. We all have a good time and don't have to deal with guys like you... But when someone talks shit and then backs down from a race....that pretty much means you better continue with where your at, tee ball or little league :D


Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming. Where the hell are the classes and rules for 2012! Time to cancel RS 8.50 index and run some X275 :chug:

Nutswinger. Definition, someone who ownes nothing worth talking about so rants endlessly about someone elses car.
Example, BIGT99

Now before you start back down the the same road understand that I like the Prestons, when were at the track together we always visit. I have the upmost respect and admiration for there skill level, hard work and there cars. You not so much mister motormouth.

Nutswinger. Definition, someone who ownes nothing worth talking about so rants endlessly about someone elses car.
Example, BIGT99

Now before you start back down the the same road understand that I like the Prestons, when were at the track together we always visit. I have the upmost respect and admiration for there skill level, hard work and there cars. You not so much mister motormouth.
Jackass you dont have a clue what I have so once again you are running your mouth not knowing what you are talking about. I dont have to rant about anyones car its just they are my friends and I am tired of listening to all the
bullshit. They choose not to get into all this drama but I on the other hand
choose to stand up for what I know. If you want to know I race outlaw 8.5
so strap some on and come get you some bitch. You want to talk nutswinging
looks like you all on here are groupies at that.

This is the best thread on LS1tech.
Carry on ....

You said I don't know what I'm talking about? Please elaborate. I gave you the definition of a nutswinger was it incorrect? I stated you fit the description because you won't stop swinging of the prestons again a fact. And lastly I spoke of my deep appreciation of how great I think the preston's are. Was that wrong? Lastly I will respond to your callout. I will put a set of 8.5's on and race you. We have to race for money so I can cover the cost of the little kid tires. The car that I race has to be owned and driven by you. I will be driving my new Camaro

lol, funny stuff
NOW BRING YOUR SHIT TO THE BEAMS!

did I just see someone jump in the bushes?

did I just see someone jump in the bushes?

Yeah, a certain group running and hiding :engarde:


Here is a good representation of bigt99 :hump:


Can we get some more :corn:

Yeah, a certain group running and hiding :engarde:


Here is a good representation of bigt99 :hump:


Can we get some more :corn:

Since your into cartoons now!

You said I don't know what I'm talking about? Please elaborate. I gave you the definition of a nutswinger was it incorrect? I stated you fit the description because you won't stop swinging of the prestons again a fact. And lastly I spoke of my deep appreciation of how great I think the preston's are. Was that wrong? Lastly I will respond to your callout. I will put a set of 8.5's on and race you. We have to race for money so I can cover the cost of the little kid tires. The car that I race has to be owned and driven by you. I will be driving my new Camaro

We race 8.5 every 1st saturday us60 dragway bring your shit and get
in the lanes and race. I'm done with you kids so have fun and carry
on I got important things to do. I guess you don't have a best friend
so I can call you a nutswinger too. If that's what you guys call a nut
swinger is a best friend then you need to grow up.

I race outlaw 8.5
so strap some on and come get you some bitch.

We race 8.5 every 1st saturday us60 dragway bring your shit and get in the lanes and race.

I quess we can add backpeddler to your resume. you called me out saying put on some 8.5's and come get you some. I excepted your callout and you change your mind and invite me to a race my car does not fit in.
Backpeddler, definition someone who runs there mouth then changes the terms when they are asked to back there mouth up.
Example bigt99

I guess you don't have a best friend
so I can call you a nutswinger too.

I do have a great many freinds, some have slower cars than me some are faster. I dont go on endless rants spouting details about there cars, the cars belong to them along with there details. You started out okay IMHO you stood up and backed up your freind. It went south when you had to keep perpetuating it. you just dont know when to shut the fuck up you made a point we got it.

If that's what you guys call a nut
swinger is a best friend then you need to grow up.
No that is not what I call a nut swinger. You really are dense arent you?
Once again here is the definition.
Nutswinger. Definition, someone who rants endlessly about someone elses car.
Example, BIGT99

I quess we can add backpeddler to your resume. you called me out saying put on some 8.5's and come get you some. I excepted your callout and you change your mind and invite me to a race my car does not fit in.
Backpeddler, definition someone who runs there mouth then changes the terms when they are asked to back there mouth up.
Example bigt99



I do have a great many freinds, some have slower cars than me some are faster. I dont go on endless rants spouting details about there cars, the cars belong to them along with there details. You started out okay IMHO you stood up and backed up your freind. It went south when you had to keep perpetuating it. you just dont know when to shut the fuck up you made a point we got it.


No that is not what I call a nut swinger. You really are dense arent you?
Once again here is the definition.
Nutswinger. Definition, someone who rants endlessly about someone elses car.
Example, BIGT99
There you go once more talking about something you know nothing about.
If your cars can fit 8.5's then you fit the rules. Carry on

:engarde: Ha Ha Ha

I think I feel less smart after reading bigt99's endless rants and bull $hit...

Talking about and setting up races with someone elses car like its their own definitely defines someone as being a nut swinger. Example, bigt99. Ray was correct, you started out OK but as time went on you showed your true colors as a complete idiot. Big deal, you run outlaw 8.5 and run in the 10's....go back pedal a little more why don't ya.


When are the rules coming out so hopefully we can see an all LS X275 class?????

Since your into cartoons now!



http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/gm-performance-parts-lsx-challenge-series-lsx-shootout/327991d1322535108-lsx-shootout-rule-changes-2012-images.jpg


+



http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/gm-performance-parts-lsx-challenge-series-lsx-shootout/327992d1322535127-lsx-shootout-rule-changes-2012-images-1-.jpg





You like to stick your finger in men's butt-holes? I just dont think that's at all appropriate for a car forum man. Maybe you had too many windows open in your browser and posted this in the wrong one be accident?

Short deck 463? Wow. What is max bore you can get in an LS7 or LSX block these days, 4.150? I'm curious as to what the stroke is here.

I remember the tall deck ad too, I had a friend who was thinking about it.

Im guessing it is a 4.185 bore with a 4.2 stroke

im running a 451 lsx block this year 4.185 bore 4.100 stroke .waiting on pistons.busted ring gear last year during first round qulifying.with a 500 rwhp ls2 .tring to play with the big boys this year with little boy budget lol.

4.200 is max bore on lsx block.

I think I feel less smart after reading bigt99's endless rants and bull $hit...

Talking about and setting up races with someone elses car like its their own definitely defines someone as being a nut swinger. Example, bigt99. Ray was correct, you started out OK but as time went on you showed your true colors as a complete idiot. Big deal, you run outlaw 8.5 and run in the 10's....go back pedal a little more why don't ya.


When are the rules coming out so hopefully we can see an all LS X275 class?????

hey hey hey, easy now :devil:

Ours is a 4.155 bore and 4.25 stroke. (tall deck)

That same set up would not be to nitrous friendly in a short deck motor.
26 jet isnt much so I can see maybe building that for a limited jet class.
Put 2 decent sized kits on it and it would be touchy. IMO.

Those Rumblings from 2011 are back at the KY-Turbo Inc shop...... We will wait to see what the rules come out with. Hell I may roll out a Nitrous Combo.....:secret2:

Brass tax is I have been building Turbo LSX cars for long enough to know that I dont give a shit what you do. A 76mm Combo isnt gonna do much past 8.50's, Low 8.50's at best at 3300lbs. I have looked at the idea of a custom GT47 based Billet BB 76mm. Priced one latley. They fetch over $3200 a pop. The GT45 Billet 76 Faterna ran was rated at 1250HP.

Do the math. A 3300lb car is gonna take roughly 1065rwhp to run a solid 8.50@160mph. Thats on a perfect pass. On a Turbo using all of it available airflow. Thats for an 8.50 pass. I have played with so many diffrent perspective engine combo's based around some NASTY 76mm turbos that is has gotten redundant. Not to mention Crazy exspensive looking.

I have to laugh everytime someone brings up the budget required. I need LPE's budget to go 8.50's. Once again its cheaper to roll a Nitrous combo out to race.

PSJ call me. I need alot of that Sponsorship $$$$. Like LPE ALOT......

Those Rumblings from 2011 are back at the KY-Turbo Inc shop...... We will wait to see what the rules come out with. Hell I may roll out a Nitrous Combo.....:secret2:

Brass tax is I have been building Turbo LSX cars for long enough to know that I dont give a shit what you do. A 76mm Combo isnt gonna do much past 8.50's, Low 8.50's at best at 3300lbs. I have looked at the idea of a custom GT47 based Billet BB 76mm. Priced one latley. They fetch over $3200 a pop. The GT45 Billet 76 Faterna ran was rated at 1250HP.

Do the math. A 3300lb car is gonna take roughly 1065rwhp to run a solid 8.50@160mph. Thats on a perfect pass. On a Turbo using all of it available airflow. Thats for an 8.50 pass. I have played with so many diffrent perspective engine combo's based around some NASTY 76mm turbos that is has gotten redundant. Not to mention Crazy exspensive looking.

I have to laugh everytime someone brings up the budget required. I need LPE's budget to go 8.50's. Once again its cheaper to roll a Nitrous combo out to race. So what do you think a 76mm will do in the 1/8 same weight?

So what do you think a 76mm will do in the 1/8 same weight?

Mid to high 5.30's as an average. This is given the same 3300lb weight and 1065rwhp.

hey hey hey, easy now :devil:


Nothing against anyone who runs 10's, except for the nut swinger mentioned above :devil:

Mid to high 5.30's as an average. This is given the same 3300lb weight and 1065rwhp.




Poor little 76 will be huffing for air from the 1/8 to the 1/4 though!

Poor little 76 will be huffing for air from the 1/8 to the 1/4 though!

No doubt about that. It really is a losing battle in Real Street with a 76mm Turbo. An 80mm is a better option. Until it happens Real Street will be a Nitrous Dominated class.

SSPerformance has a nice 440ci LSX 6 Bolt Nitrous engine for $12k for sale right now that would put ya in the mix easily. Intake to Pan with the Nitrous setup.

Hell for the same $12k I am gonna eat up over $7k in the turbo setup to get it close to being competative. Thats doing the work myself at my costs. That leaves me $5k for the engine under that same dollar figure.... Anyone wanna talk about the required budget now?

I will wait and see what the Rules Look like. Until then I guess Its just a crap shoot.

Summary:

NMCAJEFF is gonna bring up Mike Fratena every time someone brings up a 76mm Turbo. Congrats to mike on his times with a limited cube SBC with strict rules. We are talking about LSX based engine here. While the same very Different. 76mm Turbo setups can be made to work in the 8.50 range. Wont deny it. Anyone wants to prove it Bring me a car and a blank check. I will gladly show you how.

We all have seen what LPE can do with the budget they have. They will make their combo work. They just need the time to do so.

Everyone will Bitch about the Preston’s winning races. They are good at what they do. PERIOD. Get over it. Build a combo to beat them or be happy with second place.

Limiting cubes to no more than 427ci is just an excuse for the guys with 427ci or less engines.

Driving to the lanes I agree with.

Nitrous cars driving across the scales not so much. Of course everyone with a NA or Boosted Combo will bitch if the Nitrous cars are not driven across the scales. They all Tune off WBO2 logs. The Nitrous Guys read plugs. Common sense here. This is easily taken care of. More Officials at the Finish line watching what is going on. Easy enough.

As far as budgets, Funding, yada, yada, We all know how it goes. You have to pay to play. If ya cant play in the class you are running, then go Pay more and come back, or go back to 8.5” or Limited 275 or what ever suits you.

All this rambling is funny at best.

At the End of the dayhere is what I would suggest:

LSX OutLaw DR
LSX275 1/8 Mile (Holley LSFest Rules)
LSX All Motor
LSX True Street
LSX Rumble

Get rid of the damn real street class all together.

Can you elaborate? Boosted combos have always been more money than N20. If a GEN I can do it I am not sure I follow why you think a GEN IV engine can't.

It only takes somwhere in the 820-840 NA HP range plus a .026" jet to go 8.40's at 161 MPH in a 3260# car. Already been done in the class

Poor little 76 will be huffing for air from the 1/8 to the 1/4 though!

164MPH is huffing pretty good. No?

164MPH is huffing pretty good. No?




Is that car genuinely what you want to consider a Real Street car? Honestly? You think with a ODR car like that sheep's clothing in this class for 4 more years....that there will even be a Real street class anymore?

Short deck 463? Wow. What is max bore you can get in an LS7 or LSX block these days, 4.150? I'm curious as to what the stroke is here.

I remember the tall deck ad too, I had a friend who was thinking about it.

Yes. Max bore just depends on what you are willing to risk and what kind of LSX block you start with (core shift wise).

The ad was a misprint, or they weren't sure about it early on themselves because of the cid that it was. Pretty sure they were NEW to the LS stuff a couple of years back. It is my understanding the engine was bought complete from someone else who had it built. When I was interested I had found a thread on YB from the original builder asking about parts and pieces to buy while he was putting it together (08, 09).

As mentioned, nothing trick, except maybe the heads. Not to expound on any of the other details out of respect to the Prestons and the fact they still race the class, (if they want to comment more they can),,,, I found the info I had on it and HP was in the low 800's then, which is the year they went 7.99 on a bigger jet than a .026".

I would imagine they have a very efficient set up and get it all that HP to the ground.

Can you elaborate? Boosted combos have always been more money than N20. If a GEN I can do it I am not sure I follow why you think a GEN IV engine can't.

It only takes somwhere in the 820-840 NA HP range plus a .026" jet to go 8.40's at 161 MPH in a 3260# car. Already been done in the class

Really what is there to elaborate. I never once said a LSX based engine couldnt do it. I said VERY PLAINLY that 8.50's were it on a 76mm Turbo be it SBC or LSX based. Mike's Turbo was done. His best Pass was and 8.54. I even said I would be more than happy to build anyone that wanted to pay the setups to go out and run 8.50's on a 76mm Turbo. I hope LPE and the Flat Plan engine can get a 76mm Turbo to go faster. Time will tell.

Having the ability to run an 8.50 on a 76mm turbo isnt gonna get ya the 8.40's its gonna take to compete though.

As for the Money on a turbo car being higher, I never said it wasnt.
I gave an exapmple of a Proven Engine Nitrous Combo that can be bought for $12k. Taking that budget to a Turbo setup and engine wont cut it. Point being for the Money Spent, Nitrous is the best bet for the class.

Is that car genuinely what you want to consider a Real Street car? Honestly? You think with a ODR car like that sheep's clothing in this class for 4 more years....that there will even be a Real street class anymore?

No I don't, but I was talking about the ability of the turbo and really Mike Fraterna's car. Much more impressive to me than the LPE car (which I agree will be the NEW target of this thread in 2012)

Really what is there to elaborate. I never once said a LSX based engine couldnt do it. I said VERY PLAINLY that 8.50's were it on a 76mm Turbo be it SBC or LSX based. Mike's Turbo was done. His best Pass was and 8.54. I even said I would be more than happy to build anyone that wanted to pay the setups to go out and run 8.50's on a 76mm Turbo. I hope LPE and the Flat Plan engine can get a 76mm Turbo to go faster. Time will tell.

Having the ability to run an 8.50 on a 76mm turbo isnt gonna get ya the 8.40's its gonna take to compete though.

As for the Money on a turbo car being higher, I never said it wasnt.
I gave an exapmple of a Proven Engine Nitrous Combo that can be bought for $12k. Taking that budget to a Turbo setup and engine wont cut it. Point being for the Money Spent, Nitrous is the best bet for the class.

Cool, I was more interested to hear your perspective on the SBC to LSX difference in a turbo application. It sounded as if you thought a GEN 1 with a 215cc head and a .550" lift flat tappet wasn't something that could be done a budget in the LS world? I guess I didn't get it very plainly, I misinterpreted your comment. Sorry. Are you planning to race RS in 2012?

My N20 engine was under 12K also.

Cool, I was more interested to hear your perspective on the SBC to LSX difference in a turbo application. It sounded as if you thought a GEN 1 with a 215cc head and a .550" lift flat tappet wasn't something that could be done a budget in the LS world? I guess I didn't get it very plainly, I misinterpreted your comment. Sorry. Are you planning to race RS in 2012?

No worries Bro. Mikes car was a beast given the rules. He showed what could be done on limited rules with a Limited setup and 76mm Turbo. The limit of the Particular GT45 based 76mm turbo he was using was reached. He ran a littl eover 12:1 compression on the engine to make damn sure he made use of the Turbo's capabilites.

As for Running RS in 2012 being in the plans, I wont know till the rules are released. From where I sit I love the aspect of the class. However I dont love the bringing a 76mm Knife to a gun fight.

Nothing against anyone who runs 10's, except for the nut swinger mentioned above :devil:
That was my streetcar you idiot. I don't think I would be running outlaw
8.5 with that et.

F1c will out run N20 with 26jet and 76mm turbo.
Bet that !

Given the option, would you rather see the NMCA tighten the nitrous jet restriction (24/22)or loosen the turbo rule (80)?

F1c/YSi will out run N20 with 26jet and 76mm turbo.
Bet that !

Agreed

Given the option, would you rather see the NMCA tighten the nitrous jet restriction (24/22)or loosen the turbo rule (80)?




I'll never give up on the fact that i think the class should stay 8.50 range or slower. What's the point of a real street class going 8.0-8.4 and then a ODR class that is 7.30-7.90?

There's no parity and ultimately the spectators get confused and lose out on a good show.


Do i think the jets are too big? I dunno, not really. I don't mess with the nitrous cars enough to know how to keep them slowed down. It sure sounds like it's the base N/a power that needs to come down, not the jet size though if i've kept up accordingly. Most tend to agree that that is done via c.i. limits?


Although, I'll say it again, just let them rock with what they have. Like has been said before, with the LPE budget, they'll run down the Preston's in 2012 and then all the other turbo people will have to pay the price, haha. Then, in 2013, someone will show up with a purpose built YSI or F1c car and clean house...then it'll be their fault. It's a head's up class. The top dog is ALWAYS the cheater :)

Given the option, would you rather see the NMCA tighten the nitrous jet restriction (24/22)or loosen the turbo rule (80)?

I would vote Lossen the Turbo rule to a Minimum 80mm. Dont take away anything from the Nitrous Cars.


I'll never give up on the fact that i think the class should stay 8.50 range or slower. What's the point of a real street class going 8.0-8.4 and then a ODR class that is 7.30-7.90?

There's no parity and ultimately the spectators get confused and lose out on a good show.

Do i think the jets are too big? I dunno, not really. I don't mess with the nitrous cars enough to know how to keep them slowed down. It sure sounds like it's the base N/a power that needs to come down, not the jet size though if i've kept up accordingly. Most tend to agree that that is done via c.i. limits?

Although, I'll say it again, just let them rock with what they have. Like has been said before, with the LPE budget, they'll run down the Preston's in 2012 and then all the other turbo people will have to pay the price, haha. Then, in 2013, someone will show up with a purpose built YSI or F1c car and clean house...then it'll be their fault. It's a head's up class. The top dog is ALWAYS the cheater :)

I agree that the class needs to stay with the concept of 8.50-9.0 et's.

Limiting the CI limits on the engine will kill the class with a quickness. Like I said before. The only guys wanting to stay under 427ci are the guys who are already under 427ci.

As far as LPE getting the turbo car down in the 8.30's 8.40's. I hope they do. I just dont see it happening with a 76mm Turbo. We can all go out and have custom LF76mm T6 turbos built. Then we can all sit back and whatch the compressor wheels grenade themselves when when over run them. It will make for a good show no less.

I guess I will look at what its gonna take to build a 330-360ci engine that will last with a Big Compression Ration and ton of RPM without LPE's Budget.

Given the option, would you rather see the NMCA tighten the nitrous jet restriction (24/22)or loosen the turbo rule (80)?

Bullshit.
IMHO nobody has really stepped up and ran a max effort turbo or blower car.
These arguments go on forever on the bullet in the X275 threads. One common theme is unless you are running a no holds barred, melting your shit down, fastest of your power adder, you have no right to infere a rule change. I just dont see anybody except lpe building something out of the ordinary. Build an 11 or 12 to one 350 and slap a turbo or blower on it.

Bullshit.
IMHO nobody has really stepped up and ran a max effort turbo or blower car.
These arguments go on forever on the bullet in the X275 threads. One common theme is unless you are running a no holds barred, melting your shit down, fastest of your power adder, you have no right to infere a rule change. I just dont see anybody except lpe building something out of the ordinary. Build an 11 or 12 to one 350 and slap a turbo or blower on it.

I will always back the idea of a 80mm Turbo in RS. I have since the class was started.

Its 8.50's at full potential for an Off The Shelf 76/80 BB turbo. On a great day and perfect pass I see at best some high 8.48's. Its Been done. Its Been Proven. Alot of the shit I do never makes it on these forums. There is only so much to be had out of a 76mm Compressor wheel before it lets go.

Bullshit.
IMHO nobody has really stepped up and ran a max effort turbo or blower car.
These arguments go on forever on the bullet in the X275 threads. One common theme is unless you are running a no holds barred, melting your shit down, fastest of your power adder, you have no right to infere a rule change. I just dont see anybody except lpe building something out of the ordinary. Build an 11 or 12 to one 350 and slap a turbo or blower on it.

Ray, the NMCA wouldn't let me anywhere near the rules (for good reason lol), so no need to worry about this being anything official. I was just asking what the racers would prefer, given the option.

:chug:

Ray, the NMCA wouldn't let me anywhere near the rules (for good reason lol), so no need to worry about this being anything official. I was just asking what the racers would prefer, given the option.

:chug:

Nice to see you around and lurking the forums :chug:



I say allow the 80mm turbo and leave it until they dominate the class. Either that or limit the nitrous jet down to a 22 or a 20.

The whole thing here is to hopefully have a tight competition 8.50(and slower)class which will be attractive to many more racers that may show up to race. The car count is way too low for as many good running LS based cars as there are that would fit within the rules of this class, but very few of them are 25.5 spec chassis. There's a whole bunch of cars out there with a 8.50 legal 8-point setup, but very few 8.49 and faster. If NMCA/GMPP/Holley are smart from a business and advertising standpoint they will make this class 8.50 and up.

If things keep going the direction it is headed now, then the class will die very soon because it will be dominated by a couple cars and the same 6-8 cars will be the only ones to show up. Couple all of this with a race series that is spread across the nation in only 4 events and it won't take long.


As of now i'd say limit the N2O jet as it will help to keep this class more affordable for other racers to get in. Otherwise we might just have to pull the F1C off the shelf and blow the dust off the green car:burn:

The whole thing here is to hopefully have a tight competition 8.50(and slower)class which will be attractive to many more racers that may show up to race. The car count is way too low for as many good running LS based cars as there are that would fit within the rules of this class, but very few of them are 25.5 spec chassis. There's a whole bunch of cars out there with a 8.50 legal 8-point setup, but very few 8.49 and faster. If NMCA/GMPP/Holley are smart from a business and advertising standpoint they will make this class 8.50 and up.

If things keep going the direction it is headed now, then the class will die very soon because it will be dominated by a couple cars and the same 6-8 cars will be the only ones to show up. Couple all of this with a race series that is spread across the nation in only 4 events and it won't take long.


As of now i'd say limit the CUBIC INCH as it will help to keep this class more affordable for other racers to get in. Otherwise we might just have to pull the F1C off the shelf and blow the dust off the green car:burn: Fixed it for you!

Fixed it for you!

why do you want a cubic inch limit? so you dont have to see the back of that white 2000 camaro?
limit cubic inchs so you lose racers you have??? thats real smart for NMCA to do if they do it. a bird in a hand is better then two in the bush! my 2cents

why do you want a cubic inch limit? so you dont have to see the back of that white 2000 camaro?
limit cubic inchs so you lose racers you have??? thats real smart for NMCA to do if they do it. a bird in a hand is better then two in the bush! my 2cents

Call me.
Number is in my Signiture.

why do you want a cubic inch limit? so you dont have to see the back of that white 2000 camaro?
limit cubic inchs so you lose racers you have??? thats real smart for NMCA to do if they do it. a bird in a hand is better then two in the bush! my 2cents

And I Agree 100%.

Leave the rules as is guys. People are workin on new combos as we speak. Changing the rules every year keeps people away. It takes time and money to put together a specific combo. u get almost done and then they change the rules and ur stuck with a bunch of worthless parts. People want to run a class thats gonna b there and not keep changing the rules. "I AIN,T SCARED OF NO WHITE 2000 CAMARO"! Good luck next year Shaun and Adam. Phil.

Leave the rules as is guys. People are workin on new combos as we speak. Changing the rules every year keeps people away. It takes time and money to put together a specific combo. u get almost done and then they change the rules and ur stuck with a bunch of worthless parts. People want to run a class thats gonna b there and not keep changing the rules. "I AIN,T SCARED OF NO WHITE 2000 CAMARO"! Good luck next year Shaun and Adam. Phil.

Oh shit. I gotta hear about this. Give me a Call Phil.

why do you want a cubic inch limit? so you dont have to see the back of that white 2000 camaro?
limit cubic inchs so you lose racers you have??? thats real smart for NMCA to do if they do it. a bird in a hand is better then two in the bush! my 2cents I'm use to that view.lol... Budget is one reason, And NDRRA, PTRA, and other RS275 classes are ci limited. Plus i can't afford to go bigger and have a 25.5 and all that goes with it.

would love to see e85 allowed in some classes

The whole thing here is to hopefully have a tight competition 8.50(and slower)class which will be attractive to many more racers that may show up to race. The car count is way too low for as many good running LS based cars as there are that would fit within the rules of this class, but very few of them are 25.5 spec chassis. There's a whole bunch of cars out there with a 8.50 legal 8-point setup, but very few 8.49 and faster. If NMCA/GMPP/Holley are smart from a business and advertising standpoint they will make this class 8.50 and up.

If things keep going the direction it is headed now, then the class will die very soon because it will be dominated by a couple cars and the same 6-8 cars will be the only ones to show up. Couple all of this with a race series that is spread across the nation in only 4 events and it won't take long.


As of now i'd say limit the N2O jet as it will help to keep this class more affordable for other racers to get in. Otherwise we might just have to pull the F1C off the shelf and blow the dust off the green car:burn:

Yep. I think NMCA should look at their own history and slow the class down a little, throw a little weight at mega cube nitrous, no other changes, and let's see that car count INCREASE.

Eric thanks for your help this year with the Chicago cars. I hope our guys can get together with you on chassis stuff for 2012.

throw weight on the people who do there homework? its heads up racing not index racing!!

Yep. I think NMCA should look at their own history and slow the class down a little, throw a little weight at mega cube nitrous, no other changes, and let's see that car count INCREASE.

By my calculations Adam (NextMotorsports) should be around 3,490lbs with all the weight adders, and Paul (LS1excitement) should be around 2,950lbs with the current rules.

If next is at 3490, then they are making some SERIOUS power with a 26 jet.....that or the laws of physics don't apply to that car...

F1c will out run N20 with 26jet and 76mm turbo.
Bet that !

Under the current rules I don't know. If the set up was optimum like this car, it would probably give the N20 car a good run.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/Firehawk/LS1SpeedAddict2.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/Firehawk/LS1SpeedAddict.jpg

But having to work a little harder around the existing rules with component placement may make this a bit more challenging to get done.

With the current rules:


BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance, profiles, and dimensions. Factory roof and quarter panels must be used. Aftermarket fiberglass/carbon replacement panels
are limited to hood. Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted. Complete stock appearing front and rear bumpers are required. A hood must cover the entire induction system. Only OEM style Forward facing hood scoops are permitted.



I would like some clarification on cutting the core support in the next rule writing release. Also is cutting the firewall back to the windshield allowed? Do these two areas fit the current BODY rules?

Before I do some cutting on a virgin body I would like to know on these two areas specifically as they pertain to a car done like the one above. Specifically, How much cutting is allowed?

And

TURBOCHARGER:
Maximum size 76.0mm/2.992-Inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. All air entering the turbocharger must pass through the turbocharger inlet. Inlet housing is permitted a maximum inlet diameter of 3.072” where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the housing. Injection of any liquid, gas, or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing is prohibited. Turbocharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum. The tips of the impeller wheel may not be stepped, cut down, or notched to meet impeller tip-to-tip dimension (.500-inch will define the tip of the impeller wheel). Compressor wheel and housing may not be stepped, notched, or clipped; e, g ,. The contours must be continuous features from the inducer to the wheel exducer. Turbocharger combinations may NOT source air from hole in bumper or from valance of vehicle. Exotic material wheels Prohibited. Reducers prohibited.

And

SUPERCHARGERS:
Single Cog or gear driven superchargers are permitted. Entries may use forward facing units vehicles may NOT source air from hole in front bumper or valance. Positive displacement blowers permitted.

And

INTERIOR:
Must maintain stock appearance; including factory OEM style dashboard, headliner & steering column cover. Floor and tunnel where visible must be upholstered or carpeted. Seats must be upholstered OEM or aftermarket seats in stock location. Rear seat may be removed when roll bar/roll cage are installed; area must be carpeted or upholstered.

This would probably prevent a car built like this to compete in my interpretation of the current rules.??


By my calculations Adam (NextMotorsports) should be around 3,490lbs with all the weight adders, and Paul (LS1excitement) should be around 2,950lbs with the current rules.

Not following this at all......

I'd suggest contacting Trey at the NMCA for any clarifications on the rules, however, I believe that car would be illegal. I doubt cutting the cowl would be an issue, but this car looks to be a better fit for Drag Radial.

Not following this at all......

I calculated that based on the 470cid and not 461, which I believe is more accurate, but you get the idea. Here are the base weights and adders for Real Street. Do the math.

WEIGHT BREAKS:
All minimum weights are with driver.
POWER ADDER BASE CUBIC INCHES WEIGHT
Nitrous 420 3000
Nitrous 440 3150
Supercharger 420 3150
Supercharger 440 3300
Turbocharger 420 3300
Turbocharger 440 3400

Maximum cubic inches for all combinations is 480
If actual cubic-inch is more than base cubic inch listing, there will be a weight penalty of 2.0 lbs per cubic inch assessed to base weights, up to the maximum cubic inch permitted in the class.

WEIGHT ADDER/DEDUCTS:
*4 bolt per cylinder OEM blocks deduct 50 lbs.
OEM composite or OEM style aluminum intakes deduct 25 pounds
#Sheet metal intakes add 50 lbs.
Dry sumps add 50 pounds
Turbocharged/Supercharged entries without intercooler deduct 100 pounds
Air to Air intercooler entries deduct 50 pounds

please tell me how you come with with 3490 with prestons car? I thought he was 3290 at the shootout, and was legal....

I was 3205 at indy!

I apologize. My math was wrong actually (what do you expect from a journalist), and as I said I was using 470cid...3290 would be correct for 460cid with a dry sump and sheet metal intake. So it would be 2950 vs 3290, which is a theoretical 300-pound advantage for the smaller cube car. Problem is actually getting your car down to 2950 (if you have a fourth-gen) obviously.

I apologize. My math was wrong actually (what do you expect from a journalist), and as I said I was using 470cid...3290 would be correct for 460cid with a dry sump and sheet metal intake. So it would be 2950 vs 3290, which is a theoretical 300-pound advantage for the smaller cube car. Problem is actually getting your car down to 2950 (if you have a fourth-gen) obviously.

EXACTLY.... so maybe time to let more than just carbon/glass hoods play.

EXACTLY.... so maybe time to let more than just carbon/glass hoods play.

yeah no shit, you can say that again:judge:

EXACTLY.... so maybe time to let more than just carbon/glass hoods play.

Exactly, It takes serious money to get a car to 2950 under the given rules.

Under the current rules I don't know. If the set up was optimum like this car, it would probably give the N20 car a good run.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/Firehawk/LS1SpeedAddict2.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/Firehawk/LS1SpeedAddict.jpg

But having to work a little harder around the existing rules with component placement may make this a bit more challenging to get done.

With the current rules:


BODY:
The car must retain its original appearance, profiles, and dimensions. Factory roof and quarter panels must be used. Aftermarket fiberglass/carbon replacement panels
are limited to hood. Aftermarket wings and spoilers are permitted. Complete stock appearing front and rear bumpers are required. A hood must cover the entire induction system. Only OEM style Forward facing hood scoops are permitted.



I would like some clarification on cutting the core support in the next rule writing release. Also is cutting the firewall back to the windshield allowed? Do these two areas fit the current BODY rules?

Before I do some cutting on a virgin body I would like to know on these two areas specifically as they pertain to a car done like the one above. Specifically, How much cutting is allowed?

And

TURBOCHARGER:
Maximum size 76.0mm/2.992-Inducer wheel diameter at the point where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the inlet housing. All air entering the turbocharger must pass through the turbocharger inlet. Inlet housing is permitted a maximum inlet diameter of 3.072” where the leading edge of the compressor wheel meets the housing. Injection of any liquid, gas, or any other substance into the inlet or exhaust housing is prohibited. Turbocharger compressor wheel must be constructed of cast or billet aluminum. The tips of the impeller wheel may not be stepped, cut down, or notched to meet impeller tip-to-tip dimension (.500-inch will define the tip of the impeller wheel). Compressor wheel and housing may not be stepped, notched, or clipped; e, g ,. The contours must be continuous features from the inducer to the wheel exducer. Turbocharger combinations may NOT source air from hole in bumper or from valance of vehicle. Exotic material wheels Prohibited. Reducers prohibited.

And

SUPERCHARGERS:
Single Cog or gear driven superchargers are permitted. Entries may use forward facing units vehicles may NOT source air from hole in front bumper or valance. Positive displacement blowers permitted.

And

INTERIOR:
Must maintain stock appearance; including factory OEM style dashboard, headliner & steering column cover. Floor and tunnel where visible must be upholstered or carpeted. Seats must be upholstered OEM or aftermarket seats in stock location. Rear seat may be removed when roll bar/roll cage are installed; area must be carpeted or upholstered.

This would probably prevent a car built like this to compete in my interpretation of the current rules.??



He can bolt core support in it.
All/most of the N20 cars with single plane intakes have firewall cut to fit TB.

He would need to remove the air inlet from the bumper but I have a good idea to help that.
Has stock appearing dash in it, steering colum cover is stupid but doable same with pass seat.

Shawn would need to make a few changes, not sure if he wants to.
I know it would run up front if he wanted to.

Good luck to eveyone next year.

PS... still the best thread on this site. :burn:

Exactly, It takes serious money to get a car to 2950 under the given rules.

It can be done, has been done, and is being done...

2012 LSX will be interesting for sure!

A lot of threats here, hope a couple show up. (legal cars of course)

It can be done, has been done, and is being done...

2012 LSX will be interesting for sure!



yyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap(like off storage wars)

2950 is tricky, but it's possible. Car would need full aftermarket suspension, front and rear lexan (allowed)... Maybe cut out the trunk well? Rules don't allow for fiberglass doors.

Im at 2890 w/o me right now.... with carbon doors, and lexan door glass.

Figure a 200lb driver = 3090.

Front and rear lexan -80lbs(??)
Lithium Battery - 60lbs
Cut trunk metal and re-tin - 40lbs?


2950# RW is pretty tough to get to....

Not if you start with the 'right' old car body.

With an aluminum LS engine, all stock glass, full interior, stock trunk floors and interior floors, chrome bumpers, polished trim, 2 batteries, N20 bottle, and only a fiberglass hood (on hinges) I am at 3040# with me in it.

And it still looks and works like a real car. Plus doesn't look like one of them there 'belly buttons'. ;)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/Mostrecent66Novapics010.jpg

Like the deuce Tim! Definately different...

Im at 2890 w/o me right now.... with carbon doors, and lexan door glass.

Figure a 200lb driver = 3090.

Front and rear lexan -80lbs(??)
Lithium Battery - 60lbs
Cut trunk metal and re-tin - 40lbs?


2950# RW is pretty tough to get to....

You've got alot of stuff to remove yet if your at 2890 empty with carbon doors.. Front and rear Lexan is worth no more than 30-40 lbs. One normal battery weighs about 50lbs, so going to Lithium will save you about 40.....rear trunk area is between 40-70 from what Ive been told from various people.

I'm sitting at 2880 with NO driver, but I have an LSX block, cage out the front, heavy tunnel ram with twin TB's, complete dry sump system, twin 10lb bottles, standard 50 lb battery, stock doors with stock side windows as they came from the factory, and lexan front and rear windows.

I've done lightening up front but from the firewall back it is mostly stockish.

I will be 2950 dead on next spring even with adding a 25.3 cage ;)

It has been done, and don't say its not possible because it can be done to get an fbody down to 2950 or less :chug:

Welp, 2950 with driver, that's like 2750 for the car for a lot of us. Without being able to do the doors I think that's going to be a hard number to hit.

What do you weight Brian? :)

I agree with Brian.
Ours is 2600 without driver.
Stock doors, stock rear window.

You guys got work to do. LOL !

No doubt it can be done... I was told (I believe Scott @ NMCA) the reason that aftermarket body panels was limited to Hood only was to keep costs under control....

There is nothing cheap about getting a F-car to 2750#

I agree with Brian.
Ours is 2600 without driver.
Stock doors, stock rear window.

You guys got work to do. LOL !

Mine has a date with the plasma cutter and Jenny Craig this next week :judge:


No doubt it can be done... I was told (I believe Scott @ NMCA) the reason that aftermarket body panels was limited to Hood only was to keep costs under control....

There is nothing cheap about getting a F-car to 2750#

Your exactly correct. Weight is money, and the lighter you get....the more things cost....unfortunately.

Your exactly correct. Weight is money, and the lighter you get....the more things cost....unfortunately.


Thats basicly my point that I hope NMCA sees.... No matter how you cut it there is some fair coin involved getting a 4th gen down to 2950RW.

I know Wayne and Steve got some coin in their front end and spindle mount V- Series wheels.

This is an email between Jeff Conley and myself (Not Scott)

"Andrew I understand were you are coming from. TThis is a entry level style heads up class that's why the rules are written the way they are. We the sanctioning body and the sponsors want the cars in this class to represent stock cars as much as possible and to keep the costs down in the class. Allowing fiber glass or carbon will on drive the costs up in this class. The class offers you the chance to drop weight by using lexan or speedglass instead of the heavy OEM glass. The body rules will stay as is for 2011."

"40-70 for the rear trunk"
I trimmed the outsides across from the top of the frame rails back. And it was 20.6 with adding alum panels. I hear the Ttop well is 20, I believe that, I would guess 23. But I don't see 70 unless thats doing a Tub, and cutting out the speaker metal in the inner metal. Or you including the rear bumper support too.

Thats basicly my point that I hope NMCA sees.... No matter how you cut it there is some fair coin involved getting a 4th gen down to 2950RW.

I know Wayne and Steve got some coin in their front end and spindle mount V- Series wheels.

This is an email between Jeff Conley and myself (Not Scott)

"Andrew I understand were you are coming from. TThis is a entry level style heads up class that's why the rules are written the way they are. We the sanctioning body and the sponsors want the cars in this class to represent stock cars as much as possible and to keep the costs down in the class. Allowing fiber glass or carbon will on drive the costs up in this class. The class offers you the chance to drop weight by using lexan or speedglass instead of the heavy OEM glass. The body rules will stay as is for 2011."

Better have a large budget to get it down to 2950lbs RW.
Your better off taking the $15K it cost you to get that lite and spend it on a 440"+ motor... then you wont need to get it to 2950. LOL !

Im under 2950 RW and spend way less then 15K

sawsall+ spotweld drill bit.

Im under 2950 RW and spend way less then 15K

sawsall+ spotweld drill bit.


Are you a horse jockey? LOL !


Put a power adder on it and a 25.5 or better cage and see where you sit.

Looks like its pointless now... the preliminary rules thread has RS weights at 3150 for 420 and under and 3300 for 440".

Just saved me a bunch of money.... in fuel driving to one of these events.


See ya at Cecil Wayne - you can drag my junk down the track there for a quarter of the cost.

Looks like its pointless now... the preliminary rules thread has RS weights at 3150 for 420 and under and 3300 for 440".

Just saved me a bunch of money.... in fuel driving to one of these events.


See ya at Cecil Wayne - you can drag my junk down the track there for a quarter of the cost.

X2 turn aol suck again this year 5 cars Lmao

All of these weight adjustments because of the white camaro for nothing.
This year you will not see the white camaro in Real Street.

All of these weight adjustments because of the white camaro for nothing.
This year you will not see the white camaro in Real Street.



They building yet another dr car??!!

Damn it's like a new car every year!


Nova
Notch mustang
Blue 3rd gen
White 4th gen



.....wow

They building yet another dr car??!!

Damn it's like a new car every year!


Nova
Notch mustang
Blue 3rd gen
White 4th gen



.....wow
Sworn to secrecy lol!! Everyone will see soon enough!!

It's easy..... If you have a 440+ci you should just step it up and go DR, Unless your all motor, Then go AM class! I Wish they went with a cubic inch limit in RS, But i under stand people were building for the class and don't want to step on any toes. But they need to keep it under 8.50s in the 1/4. They should of went with NDRRA RS275 rules, There are 6 ls car's in our local RS 275 class and i know all would of went to the LSX series races. But i think there will be a good turn out next year in RS for the first two races....Then i don't know after that.

All of these weight adjustments because of the white camaro for nothing.
This year you will not see the white camaro in Real Street.

Great, our wonderful spokeswoman is back. Your arms still hurt from nut swinging?

Another new car, must be nice to build a whole new car every year... I guess the car business is doing well :eyes:

It's easy..... If you have a 440+ci you should just step it up and go DR, Unless your all motor, Then go AM class! I Wish they went with a cubic inch limit in RS, But i under stand people were building for the class and don't want to step on any toes. But they need to keep it under 8.50s in the 1/4. They should of went with NDRRA RS275 rules, There are 6 ls car's in our local RS 275 class and i know all would of went to the LSX series races. But i think there will be a good turn out next year in RS for the first two races....Then i don't know after that.



Will you haul my car to Bradenton for me? :)

Great, our wonderful spokeswoman is back. Your arms still hurt from nut swinging?

Another new car, must be nice to build a whole new car every year... I guess the car business is doing well :eyes:Seems like your jealous. I don't have to swing on anybody's nuts I have my own shit to race, Shawn just happens to be my best friend in case you needed to know that. I look forward
to meeting you at some of the races!!

Seems like your jealous. I don't have to swing on anybody's nuts I have my own shit to race, Shawn just happens to be my best friend in case you needed to know that. I look forward
to meeting you at some of the races!!

Why don't you let Shawn or the sons talk for themselves, why do you have to "speak" for them?

Jealous? HAHAHAHA. I'm not jealous of anything they have....

My car is paid for by me, owned by me, assembled by me, tuned by me....oh did I mention paid for and owned by me?

Your looking forward to meeting me huh?? Just look for a 6'7 375lb guy with a red firebird....won't be hard to miss :devil:

Seems like your jealous. I don't have to swing on anybody's nuts I have my own shit to race, Shawn just happens to be my best friend in case you needed to know that. I look forward
to meeting you at some of the races!!

maybe some 8.5 races?

Why don't you let Shawn or the sons talk for themselves, why do you have to "speak" for them?

Jealous? HAHAHAHA. I'm not jealous of anything they have....

My car is paid for by me, owned by me, assembled by me, tuned by me....oh did I mention paid for and owned by me?

Your looking forward to meeting me huh?? Just look for a 6'7 375lb guy with a red firebird....won't be hard to miss :devil:Since you need to know so much and a spokesboy for a class you dont even run why do you care. But since you think you know so much just happens that I was on the phone with Shawn when I posted this because he ask me to. He said he is working on his for next year not wasting time on the computer like you are. As for me its my day off. If you need to know more I ate some grilled chicken for dinner trying to lose some weight because I dont want to be fat and ugly like you. BTW I guess I am part of their crew since I go to most races with them and help them out as much as I can. If there is more you need to know just call 1-800-eat-a dick

As for me its my day off. If you need to know more I ate some grilled chicken for dinner trying to lose some weight because I dont want to be fat and ugly like you.


I gotta ask....

Just how much weight does Brian need to lose to not be "ugly" for you?

Since you need to know so much and a spokesboy for a class you dont even run why do you care. But since you think you know so much just happens that I was on the phone with Shawn when I posted this because he ask me to. He said he is working on his for next year not wasting time on the computer like you are. As for me its my day off. If you need to know more I ate some grilled chicken for dinner trying to lose some weight because I dont want to be fat and ugly like you. BTW I guess I am part of their crew since I go to most races with them and help them out as much as I can.


LOL...you just made my day! Calling me fat and ugly really hurts my feelings... :eyes:

Don't worry, I work on my car all the time...and its in the chassis shop getting the cage updated since thats the only thing I can't do. But I pay for my work to get done with my own money.

BTW, I will be tuning a nitrous car for the Real Street class next year once its completed in late spring. :chug:

I gotta ask....

Just how much weight does Brian need to lose to not be "ugly" for you?
I dont think losing weight will help him out!!

sweet shit talking, why bring this dumb shit to ls1tech? keep that trash talk on bullet.

maybe some 8.5 races?
lsx nmca races genius!!

sweet shit talking, why bring this dumb shit to ls1tech? keep that trash talk on bullet.I dont think I started any trash talk if you would of read. I just made a simple statement smart ass about the white camaro will be no more in real street and the resident idiots including yourself chose to start popping those gums. I am not gonna set here and not say nothing after the smart ass comments. I guess some just get there nuts off popping off.

So you think there is only 1 car need to worry about for real street? LOL here comes the internet work at its best.

see you at the races!

Ahhh the drama.....

Makes for good racing. See everyone in a few months.

are the rules official yet ?

Heard from a little bird that the final rules are coming to the interwebz in just a couple of hours...

Heard from a little bird that the final rules are coming to the interwebz in just a couple of hours...

It's been 2 hours.....

http://www.nmcadigital.com/cat/class_rules/docs/LSX/Drag%20Radial.pdf


there up! and me too!!!

when is the shootout? im wanting to bring my car to play...

when is the shootout? im wanting to bring my car to play...


LOL oh Travis someday you will have your car done!

Real Street Rulebook:

http://www.toolorbit.com/image/Milwaukee/Milwaukee-2620-21-lg.jpg
http://www.cksinfo.com/clipart/construction/tools/drills/electric-drill.png
http://www.gts-welco.com/gtsweldsstore/productimages/MIL907149_lg.jpg
http://www.pferdusa.com/photos/LV1/diegrinders.jpg

^^^ LOL YAY my cut frame car is finally legal!

Shutup kenny! If I can ever stop spending money on it it might get done.

Real Street Rulebook:

http://www.toolorbit.com/image/Milwaukee/Milwaukee-2620-21-lg.jpg
http://www.cksinfo.com/clipart/construction/tools/drills/electric-drill.png
http://www.gts-welco.com/gtsweldsstore/productimages/MIL907149_lg.jpg
http://www.pferdusa.com/photos/LV1/diegrinders.jpg

Yep but none of this...
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/LSWon02Z28/300132_2406447403752_1328177657_2823573_1473031712 _n.jpg

I should have just kept my mouth shut and never mentioned the carbon doors, not like you can even tell.

Where are the 2012 rules posted?

Have fun guys. Should be some good racing.
Now that the rules have been released, I've decided to do n/a 10.5 and na shootout this year. I would have tear apart the front of my car to get the engine low enough to fit everything under a 6" cowl. Not worth the expense.

http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules/

LSX ALL MOTOR SHOOTOUT

WEIGHT ADDER/DEDUCTS:
*Manual transmission – weight penalty of 200 lbs. added to base weights

TRANSMISSION:
*Manual transmission – weight penalty of 125 lbs. added to base weights.

???

even a t56 gets weight still. why?
not like Im gona get to 2600 anyway. haha

somone has to protest, and put the $$$ up for your doors. I dont see that happening.

can you put on a set of stock doors??

I have the same doors... you cant tel the diff

I'm lost. I honestly don't see the benefit of having carbon fiber doors other than saving weight. If the car is up to weight and painted to match the car, what does it matter?

Also would really like to see the rules opened up someday to get all the major LSX cars to run that haven't ran LSX stuff yet.

Smith, Wayne, JBM and there are several more I'm missing.

^ I see no problem with CF doors. Does yours have door panels inside still? I dont see it making or breaking the class. Only advantage I see is saving weight there and adding it back where you want it instead.

Anyone looked at the new weight rules? I'm glad I didnt take too much weight out before I saw that.

THe idea is it can be an advantage over those with stock doors. Someone having cf doors are now at the advantage of that extra weight to strategically place in other areas of the car via ballast. For better or worse, thats the rules and running them is cheating. Hanging stock doors is CHEAP. If doors is the worst part of this class then they did pretty good on the rules this year IMO. Time will tell how close they brought the class together with the base weights.

Tim regardless of how you look at it, every single one of the heads up cars that race have taken weight out of anywhere they could and placed it where it was better suited! The doors are no different than anything else.

we all do know that a little here, a little there tends to add up quick. If i'm not mistaken, you can only run 100lbs ballast, so there comes a point where yankin it out cant be done anymore

I read it as "100lb PER weight bar" meaning each bar can only weigh 100 lbs?

Well folks, i received a press release from NMCA today with final rules for 2012.

Hope it all worked out

http://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet-performance-lsx-challenge-series-lsx-shootout/1505909-2012-chevrolet-performance-lsx-challenge-series-rules-final.html

Since they've been allowing C5's with aftermarket quarter panels to race then I don't see why they shouldn't allow F-Bodies with aftermarket doors to race.