Automotive News, Media & Press - 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 - 5.8L/650hp/200+ MPH

2013 Ford Shelby GT500 Debuts as Most Powerful Production V8 in the World with 650 Horsepower, Top Speed of 200+ MPH

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/11/02-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-opt.jpg

• New Ford Shelby GT500 is powered by an aluminum 5.8-liter supercharged V8 producing 650 horsepower and 600 lb.-ft. of torque, making it the most powerful production V8 engine in the world

• Nearly every vehicle system has been optimized including powertrain, brakes, gearing and suspension

• New Shelby GT500 sets a performance-driven design standard with new downforce- generating front grilles, aggressive splitter, new quad exhaust system and two new forged-aluminum wheels

• Also new for 2013 is an optional Performance Package with SVT-designed Bilstein electronic adjustable dampers and a Torsen limited-slip differential. The offering can be coupled with a Track Package for all-out racetrack performance

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 15, 2011 – The ultimate Ford Mustang – Shelby GT500 – raises the bar high on performance with the introduction of the new 2013 model that goes on sale next year delivering 650 horsepower and a top speed of more than 200 mph.

"SVT keeps the Shelby GT500 on the cutting edge of technology and takes muscle car performance to new heights," said Jost Capito, director of Global Performance Vehicles and Motorsport Business Development. "We encapsulated every aspect of performance in this car – whether it's 0-60, top speed, racetrack or quarter-mile times. Beyond that, the daily driver also will find this car perfectly fits his or her needs."

The 5.8-liter V8 aluminum-block engine produces 650 horsepower and 600 lb.-ft. of torque, making it the most powerful production V8 in the world. The 3,850-pound car also stays exempt from the gas-guzzler tax.

Nearly every part of the powertrain has been optimized for producing the additional horsepower, including a new supercharger, new cross-drilled block and heads, updated camshaft profiles, a new carbon fiber driveshaft and upgraded clutch, transmission and axle.

A larger, more-efficient supercharger flowing more air through the engine is key to helping produce the massive 650 horsepower. The new TVS series 2300 creates 2.3 liters of displacement and is a unique design to the 5.8-liter engine.

The entire cooling system has been significantly updated on the new 5.8-liter engine. It now includes a larger cooling fan, fan shroud with high-speed pressure-relief doors, a more efficient charge air cooler, a higher-flow intercooler pump and an intercooler heat exchanger with volume increased 36 percent.

Revised Gearing

Nearly every gear on the 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 was revised to manage the torque and use more of the power in a way that makes it more driver-friendly. Engineers considered more than 35 gearing combinations, finally deciding on one that delivers less torque all the way through the wheels to the ground and still enables the car to achieve fuel economy targets.

A key piece of the driveline, the six-speed manual transmission, offers upgraded gears, bearings and housing so it can properly manage the torque. The final drive ratio is now 3.31:1 for optimized overall vehicle gearing to complement the massive torque. Every gear besides fourth was optimized for competing performance metrics. The clutch has increased torque and rpm capacity and uses a dual-disc design.

"It might just seem like we're putting a bigger engine into the car. But it's been a balanced approach through and through," said Jamal Hameedi, SVT chief engineer. "We've completely redone the car to be even more sophisticated in terms of handling and control than the prior model."

Other keys for improved traction management include:

• Torsen limited-slip differential: When customers order the optional Performance Package, they will get a Torsen limited-slip differential that helps the rear suspension deliver maximum torque and traction better and longer under track conditions

• Launch control: A new launch control system lets drivers set the desired launch rpm depending on tire temperature, street surface or other conditions. Unique to SVT's launch control is that it is integrated with both the engine control and traction control

• Brembo braking system: A new Brembo brake system offers drivers enhanced stopping power to help keep their car under control, both on the road and the track. New six-piston calipers in front along with larger front and rear rotors help improve brake fade. New brake pads that are more aggressive also help the car achieve high deceleration and further robustness for more driver confidence

Aero Advancements

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/11/13-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-1321234115.jpg

Significant aerodynamic work was done on the new Shelby GT500 to ensure the car has proper downforce for optimum performance at all speeds. Engineers were able to determine how to harness the air that was moving around and through the car to improve the cooling system, maximize downforce and minimize drag.

The front fascia and splitters were modified to handle the extreme loads at 200 mph, resulting in a car that tracks more securely and feels more planted to the road at higher speeds. It offers 33 percent more effective aero loading at 160 mph compared to the 2011 model.

Superior Ride

The new Shelby GT500's driving dynamics have been improved, now working in concert with all the new content on the car.

Handling, all AdvanceTrac settings and steering assist levels within selectable steering have been tuned to account for the updated content. The previously available unique traction control system and electronic stability control settings help drivers achieve maximum performance on both the street and the track.

Both systems can be completely disabled in controlled track situations where maximum driver skill is utilized, or fully engaged for maximum safety during normal driving or in less-than-ideal traction conditions. Intermediate sport mode allows drivers to push their cars hard at the track without completely disabling the safety systems, permitting more aggressive driving before the traction control and electronic stability control intervene.

"We took a completely different approach with this car so drivers can choose their settings instead of a computer making the selection," Hameedi said. "Nearly every system the driver interacts with can be tailored to his or her situation including the Bilstein electronic adjustable suspension, launch control, AdvanceTrac and steering assist levels."

The 2013 Shelby GT500 offers two new sets of forged-aluminum wheels including a unique wheel for cars with the optional packages. The 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels are coupled with Goodyear Eagle® F1 SuperCar G: 2 tires on all vehicle configurations.

Taking It One Step Further

Sometimes Ford Shelby GT500 customers want to enjoy their car on surface streets. Other times they just want to let loose on the track. Two new optional packages on the 2013 model give them the choice.

Available as part of the optional Performance Package, SVT-designed Bilstein electronic adjustable dampers are accessed on the dash with a simple push of a button. Normal mode gives customers a more comfortable ride over road irregularities. Sport mode is all about performance, delivering improved response time on the track and less body roll while cornering and pitch under braking. The Torsen limited-slip differential also comes with the Performance Package.

"The adjustable shocks let us develop our car on the track without any compromise," said Kerry Baldori, Ford SVT Global Performance Vehicles chief engineer. "Before, we had to tune the car with street implications in mind. Now we can go as extreme as we want on the track setting and still offer the customer a comfortable ride on the road."

Enthusiasts can upgrade their Performance Package with an additional Track Package for all-out performance. The option comes with an external engine oil cooler, rear differential cooler and transmission cooler for further durability. The coolers play an essential role in preventing crucial components from overheating under high-speed conditions.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/nanokpsi/2013-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-front-three-quarter-623x389.jpg

Sorry Zl1 fans..it looks like the boys at the Blue Oval didn't want you to have any thunder :)
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2013-ford-mustang-gets-more-features-gt500-gets-650-hp-and-200-mph-top-speed-87421.html

Nice!

Now that is my idea of a muscle car. Love the way it looks.

:drool: Anxious to see the price.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/nanokpsi/2013-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-front-three-quarter-623x389.jpg

Sorry Zl1 fans..it looks like the boys at the Blue Oval didn't want you to have any thunder :)
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2013-ford-mustang-gets-more-features-gt500-gets-650-hp-and-200-mph-top-speed-87421.html




it wont be for awhile but lets see if GM answers this. they can if they want to. :)


badass car though. i wonder how much of an increase in price over a 2012.

I like it

This car is going to terrorize the quarter mile and that's about it. Will it beat the ZL1's 'Ring time?

This car is going to terrorize the quarter mile and that's about it. Will it beat the ZL1's 'Ring time?

I think it's quite obvious, but I'll say it anyways in case there are a few idiots out there: needs a tire. :lol: 10s from a factory Mustang on a tire is going to be nasty.

I still think automatic ZL1s will be the 1/4 mile kings.

Especially factoring in the types of people who buy GT500s in the first place.

This car is going to terrorize the quarter mile and that's about it. Will it beat the ZL1's 'Ring time?

Who knows ;)

I still think automatic ZL1s will be the 1/4 mile kings.

Especially factoring in the types of people who buy GT500s in the first place.

This. GT500s with very good drivers will post some faster times but the auto ZL1s will be the quickest on average and most consistent.

I have to say, that I am happy the way the Blue Oval crowd is pushing GM to make more power, and more competitive cars. Long live the pony wars :chug:

This car is going to terrorize the quarter mile and that's about it. Will it beat the ZL1's 'Ring time?

People that were clocking the testers say it already did ;) It received all of the upgrades that it needed. The previous car really needed a better diff, and this car has it. A 350lb weight advantage along with a 70hp power advantage certainly elude to its capability.

Other releases are also staing a 7000rpm redline, which means it wil have REAL forged rods in it. If that is the case the factory bottom end will be good for 1000whp.

Very nice, this is going to eat the ZL1 alive, I can't wait to see the comparison tests.

Well played Ford. Depending on where the price lands, this could ruin the ZL1 before it even hits showroom floors.

Well played Ford. Depending on where the price lands, this could ruin the ZL1 before it even hits showroom floors.

Just kinda depends. The Camaro is still outselling the Mustang despite the Mustang performing better.

A lot of people buy the Camaros for the style. A lot of people are brand loyal. It will hurt sales for people looking for all out performance/bragging rights who cross shop if it runs the numbers to back up its bark.

Impressive car no matter how you slice it though.

Very nice, this is going to eat the ZL1 alive, I can't wait to see the comparison tests.

The only thing this new GT500 is going to eat is tires. It will be a tire smoking dud on the street, unless you're into ricer racing.

Well played Ford. Depending on where the price lands, this could ruin the ZL1 before it even hits showroom floors.

If you bring in the variable of showroom floors to the equation, the ZL1 will out sell the GT500. The ZL1 is extremely attractive with the automatic option. GM is speculating like 70% of all ZL1s sold will be automatics. Driving a 550hp+ car with an automatic is so much easier and forgiving than manual. The ZL1 will attract new buyers and the GM loyal. The GT500 will only attract the Ford Loyal.

That's a lot of power for a mass produced vehicle with a warranty and under $55k (I'm assuming). :thumb:

The only thing this new GT500 is going to eat is tires. It will be a tire smoking dud on the street, unless you're into ricer racing.

Yes, because people that can afford a $50-60k car can't afford to spend another $600 or so on a good set of drag tires.

If you bring in the variable of showroom floors to the equation, the ZL1 will out sell the GT500. The ZL1 is extremely attractive with the automatic option. GM is speculating like 70% of all ZL1s sold will be automatics. Driving a 550hp+ car with an automatic is so much easier and forgiving than manual. The ZL1 will attract new buyers and the GM loyal. The GT500 will only attract the Ford Loyal.

You can't tell me no new buyers are going to be attracted to a car with a lot more power, a lot less weight, and that all-mighty 200+mph top speed (I know most won't come close to that speed, but people like to brag, and how many other cars in the price range can hit 200+?) than the Camaro at the same price, that's just silly.

+10 to Ford for what they have been up to with the new Mustangs, can't wait to see what they come out with for the next generation. I would still love to see them come out with something for the Corvette (2-seater, light weight sports car), besides the GT that is.

I have always been a Mustang hater but I am starting to change my tune.

Specs sound incredibly promising, let's see what happens when it comes out.

The ZL1 will attract new buyers and the GM loyal. The GT500 will only attract the Ford Loyal.

I love how everyone clings to sales figures now that the Camaro is leading sales, but back in the 90s when Mustang always lead in sales we'd hear "well the F-body is a better car all around." The Camaro is leading in sales because it was gone for 9 years - that's the only reason.

That said, I will disagree with your comment above. I am GM loyal, but I'd buy a new GT500 before a ZL1 without question. Performance for the dollar is where my money would land if I were in the market to buy.

To all you guys talking about how the auto ZL1 is going to be easier to drive and will hang in a straight line. Did you miss the part about how the GT500 will also offer an auto with launch control? Unless the ZL1's suspension is miles better I don't see how it keeps up with a car 350 lbs lighter with 70 more hp.

To all you guys talking about how the auto ZL1 is going to be easier to drive and will hang in a straight line. Did you miss the part about how the GT500 will also offer an auto with launch control? Unless the ZL1's suspension is miles better I don't see how it keeps up with a car 350 lbs lighter with 70 more hp.

Basically. I think a lot of people just read the vital stats (hp/tq) and ignored the rest of the article. This new GT500 is going to be a damn nice car.

That's enough Ford praising for me today. I feel dirty...

Yes, because people that can afford a $50-60k car can't afford to spend another $600 or so on a good set of drag tires.

It's not that they can't, it's that they won't. When was the last time you randomly rolled up on a Z06, GT500, or even a base model brand new Corvette and they had a decent tire on them? I never have, and I bet you haven't either. Besides, this new GT500 will need more than just a good radial to hook.

To all you guys talking about how the auto ZL1 is going to be easier to drive and will hang in a straight line. Did you miss the part about how the GT500 will also offer an auto with launch control? Unless the ZL1's suspension is miles better I don't see how it keeps up with a car 350 lbs lighter with 70 more hp. the article only states that there's a new traction control. There's no word about it having an auto trans.

the article only states that there's a new traction control. There's no word about it having an auto trans.

That's what I got out of it too. Probably push a button or two, hold the throttle to the floor, dump the clutch and a computer does the rest to control wheelspin.

Yeah that's probably what it's gonna be like. But I would venture a guess that this car is every bit as fast as a Z06, with traction...maybe even a little faster.

I'll come out and say it.. The ZL1 specific parts on the Camaro are awkward looking, and that Mustang is on point.

It's not that they can't, it's that they won't. When was the last time you randomly rolled up on a Z06, GT500, or even a base model brand new Corvette and they had a decent tire on them? I never have, and I bet you haven't either. Besides, this new GT500 will need more than just a good radial to hook.

Anyone that's seriously into racing is going to throw a decent tire on it, the average driver you see on the streets isn't going to but he also isn't likely to race. I bet if you show up at a track most GT500s will have a good tire on them, and it isn't going to take much (if any) more than a good tire to get these into the 10s. I think someone with a 2011-12 GT500 has pulled an 11.1 all stock with just tires, 100 more horsepower should get it into the 10s pretty easily.

Just kinda depends. The Camaro is still outselling the Mustang despite the Mustang performing better.

A lot of people buy the Camaros for the style. A lot of people are brand loyal. It will hurt sales for people looking for all out performance/bragging rights who cross shop if it runs the numbers to back up its bark.

Impressive car no matter how you slice it though.

This... Just remember the ZL1 was created in mind to compete with the 2011/12 GT500 NOT the 2013 GT500.. So Ford is responding to the ZL1. Just means GM will respond back with with some more hp & hopefully weight reduction. People say GM needs to catch up? Chevy comes out with the LT1 Camaro in 1993. Ford Comes out its new Mustang in 1994. Chevy comes out with the LS1 Camaro in 1998. Ford comes out with its new Mustang in 1999. Chevy then comes out with the 2010 Camaro. Ford responds with the 5.0 Mustang. Chevy comes out with the 2012 ZL1. Ford responds with the 2013 GT500 :engarde:

I have always been a Mustang hater but I am starting to change my tune.

I agree sadly.:(

The only thing this new GT500 is going to eat is tires. It will be a tire smoking dud on the street, unless you're into ricer racing.

Yeah, it will definitely have some traction issues. However, all it needs is a decent tire out back and it's game over.

But who can afford an $80,000 Mustang? The reason the 1960's were the 'Golden Age' of muscle cars is because the 'average Joe' could afford to buy one. These new muscle cars have awesome power but no one I know can afford one.

But who can afford an $80,000 Mustang?

I think itll be closer to $55,000...

I think itll be closer to $55,000...

Agreed, I don't see it starting at anything more than $55k as the current GT500 starts at $48k.

But who can afford an $80,000 Mustang? The reason the 1960's were the 'Golden Age' of muscle cars is because the 'average Joe' could afford to buy one. These new muscle cars have awesome power but no one I know can afford one.

:lol: WTF are you talking about?

Looking pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWRdtOgpIak

Anyone that's seriously into racing is going to throw a decent tire on it

Anyone seriously into racing isn't going to buy a $60K Mustang, unless they bleed blue and have deep pockets. Those cars will never be seen on the street. The ones you will find plenty of will be driven by the same guys you find behind the wheel of a new Corvette.

:lol: WTF are you talking about?

You could buy a fastback 302 with a 4 speed and a couple other options for $2,800 in 1968. :)

Anyone seriously into racing isn't going to buy a $60K Mustang, unless they bleed blue and have deep pockets. Those cars will never be seen on the street. The ones you will find plenty of will be driven by the same guys you find behind the wheel of a new Corvette.
People who are serious in racing buy Corvettes, GT-Rs, and Lamborghinis...I'm pretty sure lots of enthusiasts are gonna buy it.
You could buy a fastback 302 with a 4 speed and a couple other options for $2,800 in 1968. :)

Wheel of Fortune is on television right now. That doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about either :lol:. I guess my question to him went right over your head.

Anyone seriously into racing isn't going to buy a $60K Mustang, unless they bleed blue and have deep pockets. Those cars will never be seen on the street. The ones you will find plenty of will be driven by the same guys you find behind the wheel of a new Corvette.

Promise they will sell everyone they make, and many will be raced.

Anyone seriously into racing isn't going to buy a $60K Mustang, unless they bleed blue and have deep pockets. Those cars will never be seen on the street. The ones you will find plenty of will be driven by the same guys you find behind the wheel of a new Corvette.

This is a horrible generalization that isn't even close to being true. I'm assuming you've never even took a glance at SVTPerformance or any other major Mustang board? There are tons of people that race and modify their GT500's, just like the large group of people who race and modify their Corvette's.

Both more then im willing to spend. I'll just put 20grand into the bird and be way faster lol.

This is a horrible generalization that isn't even close to being true. I'm assuming you've never even took a glance at SVTPerformance or any other major Mustang board? There are tons of people that race and modify their GT500's, just like the large group of people who race and modify their Corvette's.

I just participated in a Corvette event, with nearly 1000 cars. Dozens of twin turbo cars, dozens of superchargers, god knows how many strokers... I think I saw 95% of the Corvettes there. I counted 8 cars on drag radials.

Call it a generalization if you want, I won't argue that. But to say it's not close to true? :eyes: Look around... Most of the guys here that have built their cars did so second hand, especially the more expensive stuff like the Z06s.

Finally, I have no reason to troll Mustang sites. I've met more GT500 owners than you have posts. Having driven numerous GT500s (through 2010), C6Z06s, and the like. I can say in my experience the GT500 simply cannot make good use of the power it already has. This is backed up the the countless 13 second quarters I've seen from these cars.

If you haven't driven any '11+ cars, your prior experience doesn't really mean anything. These cars are setup much better than previous iterations, hopefully you understand that.

Anyone seriously into racing isn't going to buy a $60K Mustang, unless they bleed blue and have deep pockets. Those cars will never be seen on the street. The ones you will find plenty of will be driven by the same guys you find behind the wheel of a new Corvette.

This is a pretty ignornat statement. The audience for the GT500 will be no different than the ZL1. The prices of these cars is still well within reach for most educated professionals.

yep that 2013 is gonna look good next to my kr.no garage queen here.:pimp:

I just participated in a Corvette event, with nearly 1000 cars. Dozens of twin turbo cars, dozens of superchargers, god knows how many strokers... I think I saw 95% of the Corvettes there. I counted 8 cars on drag radials.

Call it a generalization if you want, I won't argue that. But to say it's not close to true? :eyes: Look around... Most of the guys here that have built their cars did so second hand, especially the more expensive stuff like the Z06s.

Finally, I have no reason to troll Mustang sites. I've met more GT500 owners than you have posts. Having driven numerous GT500s (through 2010), C6Z06s, and the like. I can say in my experience the GT500 simply cannot make good use of the power it already has. This is backed up the the countless 13 second quarters I've seen from these cars.

So you went around and checked the tires on 1000 cars? Just to prove a point that you knew you were going to have to make in the future? At what sounds like a cruise, not a drag track meet? Wow, you sure showed us! :eyes: There are a lot of people that have run high 11s with stock tire 2011-12 GT500s, so even without drag radials they do just fine. And you are talking about the older GT500 with the iron block vs the what, 150lb lighter aluminum block in the new cars...that's a really good comparison right there!

I just participated in a Corvette event, with nearly 1000 cars. Dozens of twin turbo cars, dozens of superchargers, god knows how many strokers... I think I saw 95% of the Corvettes there. I counted 8 cars on drag radials.

Call it a generalization if you want, I won't argue that. But to say it's not close to true? :eyes: Look around... Most of the guys here that have built their cars did so second hand, especially the more expensive stuff like the Z06s.

Finally, I have no reason to troll Mustang sites. I've met more GT500 owners than you have posts. Having driven numerous GT500s (through 2010), C6Z06s, and the like. I can say in my experience the GT500 simply cannot make good use of the power it already has. This is backed up the the countless 13 second quarters I've seen from these cars.

Drag radials are really meant for track use last time I checked. Lot's of people with high-powered cars have street wheel/tire combo's that they cruise around on when they're not at the track. So, that could have been part of the reason why you saw so many built Corvette's on street radials. Also, just because someone has the $$$ to get their car built by someone professionally means nothing, so I don't know what point you're trying to make with that.

Not sure what you mean by "simply cannot make good use of the power it already has", that doesn't even make sense. If you get a good tire on the car and someone who can drive decent, they can be very good performers and it's been proven.

Prime example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAKgviKzOjs

^ That same guy has gotten all the way down to either 11.1x or 11.2x with the same setup. Damn impressive.

Haven't read it all whats the price range like?

Didn't say, but I can't imagine it going up too much from the current sub-$49k base price.

Didn't say, but I can't imagine it going up too much from the current sub-$49k base price.

It was VERY convenient for GM to announce the ZL1 pricing just as news of the GT500 surfaced. Checkmate!

Looking pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWRdtOgpIak

If I was looking for a new car --- Boom. It looks good and it is fast.
Thanks for the video!

I like it!

Well I guess if u get ur ass busted enough times by a "four door family sedan" u will learn to step ur game up lol

My buddy was at a Ford dealer today pre-ordering one already in Sonic Blue. He has some connections because he has pre ordered every new design car for the past who knows how long including the most recent 2011 GT500 that will get traded in towards the 2013.

The GT500 will OWN the ZL1 in every way. And if you havent driven or been in a 2011 mustang of any trim model you have no room to talk about them, Ford stepped up the game big time and is kicking GM's ass.

And if you havent driven or been in a 2011 mustang of any trim model you have no room to talk about them, Ford stepped up the game big time and is kicking GM's ass.

Stepped up game= yes, minus some junk parts and some shit customer service regarding them (first hand experience, not mindless "I read on the interwebz" crap)

Kicking ass= yes and no, they aren't outselling and a lot of the 5th gen owners are doing well to keep up. Kinda like comparing Machs and n/a Cobras to the ls1s when both were new...ass kicking would be more like comparing a 99 GT to a 99 ls1.



And yet again, the ZL1 is competing with the 2012 GT500, not the '13. While it is likely in 2013 your statement will be true that "Ford is kicking GM's ass", it's pretty damn close right now.

Who cares, it's still a Ford. Might as well be a Mazda. Buy a freakin' Maro or for godsakes if you're going to spend THAT MUCH money, get a Vette =)

:eyes: Intelligent people don't buy a car based purely on the manufacturer.

:eyes: Intelligent people don't buy a car based purely on the manufacturer.

Mustang was sourced from Mazada btw.

Is that true, people with brand loyalty are not intelligent? Great to know... :sack: That is obviously something you will completely FAIL to prove. :engarde:

I don't care if it beats the ZL1 by .00001 whatever in whatever category. I'm still not buying it because its Ford. This is an age old muscle car brand debate.

That doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, that is called an opinionated personal preference.

In fact, we have a different name for people who are actually brand loyal and then jump ship..

WTF is there to be "loyal" to? :jest:

So you went around and checked the tires on 1000 cars? Just to prove a point that you knew you were going to have to make in the future? At what sounds like a cruise, not a drag track meet? Wow, you sure showed us!

I talking about running into one of these cars on the street, not the track. And yes, I literally did go around looking at the CARS, not just the engines. I wasn't a bit surprised to find a bunch of big power cars on all season tires. Both my cars in my sig wear nothing but drag radials on the back, and both have seen rain and snow.

Also, just because someone has the $$$ to get their car built by someone professionally means nothing, so I don't know what point you're trying to make with that.

I clearly stated second hand, as in they are not the original owner who spent a lot of money for a new car. They bought used at a huge discount. I say this because nobody buys a $60K Mustang to beat up on a dragstrip. $60K will put you in a couple year old Z06 or GTR.

Finally, I don't need to drive a 2011 GT500 to know that a 5.8L engine with a big positive displacement blower, manual trans and 20" tires won't work on the street.

Stepped up game= yes, minus some junk parts and some shit customer service regarding them (first hand experience, not mindless "I read on the interwebz" crap)

Kicking ass= yes and no, they aren't outselling and a lot of the 5th gen owners are doing well to keep up. Kinda like comparing Machs and n/a Cobras to the ls1s when both were new...ass kicking would be more like comparing a 99 GT to a 99 ls1.



And yet again, the ZL1 is competing with the 2012 GT500, not the '13. While it is likely in 2013 your statement will be true that "Ford is kicking GM's ass", it's pretty damn close right now.All good points. :nod:

Bein loyal to a certain make of car is like bein loyal to a football team if you like one team and have alot of merch from that team are you gonna switch teams cuz they arent doin so well at the moment ?

:eyes: Intelligent people don't buy a car based purely on the manufacturer.So, intelligent people would never stay faithful to their spouses/significant others?
How about to the company they work for or the ball team they play for, can a person that refuses to 'sell out their boss' or throw the game for the other team never be considered intelligent?:huh:
Since when did loyalty become a bad thing. :confused:

So, intelligent people would never stay faithful to their spouses/significant others?
How about to the company they work for or the ball team they play for, can a person that refuses to 'sell out their boss' or throw the game for the other team never be considered intelligent?:huh:
Since when did loyalty become a bad thing. :confused:

You're reading too deeply I think.

IMO a better comparison would be being brand loyal to say Coke or Pepsi. What do you get for your loyalty? Also if one changes their formula to taste like dog shit would you not drink the other due to your loyalty?

IMO a better comparison would be being brand loyal to say Coke or Pepsi. What do you get for your loyalty?A better looking can, a taste that you've always enjoyed, a drink that's always woken you up when ya needed it too, whatever.





Also if one changes their formula to taste like dog shit would you not drink the other due to your loyalty?Well, in an extreme such as that, yes one would have to switch.
But, if a wife puts on 5 extra pounds one month should we just get a new one?
If your favorite major league baseball team changes the logo on their uniforms do you immediately/automatically root for the other team from that point forward?
And if so, these are considered the "intelligent" things to do?
I believe we lack enough loyalty in the world today already as it is, and now some of you are promoting/agreeing that it should be even less so?

A better looking can, a taste that you've always enjoyed, a drink that's always woken you up when ya needed it too, whatever.


How does you as an individual drinking Pepsi vs. Coke get you a better can? Did anyone's loyalty to GM get them a better looking Camaro? A lighter Camaro?


Well, in an extreme such as that, yes one would have to switch.
But, if a wife puts on 5 extra pounds one month should we just get a new one?
If your favorite major league baseball team changes the logo on their uniforms do you immediately/automatically root for the other team from that point forward?
And if so, these are considered the "intelligent" things to do?
I believe we lack enough loyalty in the world today already as it is, and now some of you are promoting/agreeing that it should be even less so?

Ok how about this: one company changes their formula and you actually enjoy the taste more i.e. it fits your needs better; do you still drink the old one "because you always have" or because you're loyal to that company?

Maybe I should clarify where I'm coming from. I don't disagree with loyalty; what I do disagree with is blind loyalty. I am more than happy to be loyal to a company that adresses my needs/wants. I do think that blind loyalty is not a good policy IMO. Was the loyalty of those who followed Hitler acceptable?

Maybe I should clarify where I'm coming from. I don't disagree with loyalty; what I do disagree with is blind loyalty. I am more than happy to be loyal to a company that adresses my needs/wants. I do think that blind loyalty is not a good policy IMO. Was the loyalty of those who followed Hitler acceptable?Good points. :nod:

Mustang was sourced from Mazada btw.

And your point is? Mazda has made some of the best handling cars, why would that be a bad thing?

So, intelligent people would never stay faithful to their spouses/significant others?
How about to the company they work for or the ball team they play for, can a person that refuses to 'sell out their boss' or throw the game for the other team never be considered intelligent?:huh:
Since when did loyalty become a bad thing. :confused:

Really? How does being loyal to your wife compare to being loyal to a car company? Unless you are working for or sponsored by GM, why only drive their cars?

And your point is? Mazda has made some of the best handling cars, why would that be a bad thing?


The post I quoted basically insinuated that the Mustang was in same way related to Mazda. I have no problem w/ Mazda but its funny he made the comment about a car on its own unique platform with no rebadges. Hell if you would be more correct if you called it a Jaguar.

Did someone really just compare loyalty to a brand to being faithful in marriage?

Jesus Christ...

Who cares, it's still a Ford. Might as well be a Mazda. Buy a freakin' Maro or for godsakes if you're going to spend THAT MUCH money, get a Vette =)

Give me this GT500 over any of the corvette models except the ZR1. Much rather have the GT500 over the Z06, and I wouldn't give you a nickel for a standard coupe/GS model. They are a bit off the mark on the ZL1. If the ZL1 was 45k and not 55k it might be worthy of consideration.

Stepped up game= yes, minus some junk parts and some shit customer service regarding them (first hand experience, not mindless "I read on the interwebz" crap)

Kicking ass= yes and no, they aren't outselling and a lot of the 5th gen owners are doing well to keep up. Kinda like comparing Machs and n/a Cobras to the ls1s when both were new...ass kicking would be more like comparing a 99 GT to a 99 ls1.



And yet again, the ZL1 is competing with the 2012 GT500, not the '13. While it is likely in 2013 your statement will be true that "Ford is kicking GM's ass", it's pretty damn close right now.


Make no mistake, it is competeing with the 2013. The order banks for the 2012 gt500 will be closed before the first production ZL1s are delivered. Maybe it was benchmarked against the 2012, but the 2013 will be on the ground this spring, the same time as the ZL1. The 5.8/TVS combo has been under development a long time, and GM knew it was coming, which is why the ZL1 makes mroe power than the CTS-V.

Also of note, the 2013 GT500 is running 15psi, giving some backing to the speculation that the tune has to be very conservative to make "only" 650hp. For refrence, the 2.3l TVS upgrade kit from Ford Racing makes 660hp on the 2010 cars running 14psi. The new blower is spining faster on a bigger motor and making less power. Just a simple tune on this car should yield impressive gains.

I would take a GS or Z06 any day of the week.

No matter how much power it has and how many tweaks, it's still a Mustang and after driving even a lowly C5 Corvette I would fall over myself trying to get behind the wheel of a upper level C6. More potential for all around performance IMO.

I can't believe they priced the ZL1 in GS territory in the first place personally.

Did someone really just compare loyalty to a brand to being faithful in marriage?

Jesus Christ...

Nutswinging at its finest.

Give me this GT500 over any of the corvette models except the ZR1. Much rather have the GT500 over the Z06, and I wouldn't give you a nickel for a standard coupe/GS model. They are a bit off the mark on the ZL1. If the ZL1 was 45k and not 55k it might be worthy of consideration.

IDK, if they could cut the Mustang down to 32-3300lbs I would be in the same boat about the base Corvette, but I would take a Z06 over a GT500 in a heart beat. It would be a hard choice between a base Corvette and a GT500, but I think I would still probably go for the Corvette. As much as I like this car and would love to own one, it's still a Mustang. I see about 50 of them to ever Corvette, and even if it is considerably lighter than the ZL1 and the overpriced SRT8, 3800lbs is still a pretty heavy car.

I talking about running into one of these cars on the street, not the track. And yes, I literally did go around looking at the CARS, not just the engines. I wasn't a bit surprised to find a bunch of big power cars on all season tires. Both my cars in my sig wear nothing but drag radials on the back, and both have seen rain and snow.



I clearly stated second hand, as in they are not the original owner who spent a lot of money for a new car. They bought used at a huge discount. I say this because nobody buys a $60K Mustang to beat up on a dragstrip. $60K will put you in a couple year old Z06 or GTR.

Finally, I don't need to drive a 2011 GT500 to know that a 5.8L engine with a big positive displacement blower, manual trans and 20" tires won't work on the street.
The way somebody rolls up to a car show, and the way somebody cruising on the street rolls around (drag radials or slicks on different wheels) looking to have some fun is potentially a big difference.
Bein loyal to a certain make of car is like bein loyal to a football team if you like one team and have alot of merch from that team are you gonna switch teams cuz they arent doin so well at the moment ?
:lol:
So, intelligent people would never stay faithful to their spouses/significant others?
How about to the company they work for or the ball team they play for, can a person that refuses to 'sell out their boss' or throw the game for the other team never be considered intelligent?:huh:
Since when did loyalty become a bad thing. :confused:
:lol:
You're reading too deeply I think.

IMO a better comparison would be being brand loyal to say Coke or Pepsi. What do you get for your loyalty? Also if one changes their formula to taste like dog shit would you not drink the other due to your loyalty?
Thank you for getting it.
Did someone really just compare loyalty to a brand to being faithful in marriage?

Jesus Christ...
Exactly :bang:

Nutswinging at its finest.



IDK, if they could cut the Mustang down to 32-3300lbs I would be in the same boat about the base Corvette, but I would take a Z06 over a GT500 in a heart beat. It would be a hard choice between a base Corvette and a GT500, but I think I would still probably go for the Corvette. As much as I like this car and would love to own one, it's still a Mustang. I see about 50 of them to ever Corvette, and even if it is considerably lighter than the ZL1 and the overpriced SRT8, 3800lbs is still a pretty heavy car.

Agreed 100%. I'm still a Corvette enthusiast.

There are plenty of people that need more than a two seater though.
I could have bought a C6Z06 instead of my smurf mobile, but then I couldn't take my son to day care :)

Really? How does being loyal to your wife compare to being loyal to a car company? Unless you are working for or sponsored by GM, why only drive their cars?Did someone really just compare loyalty to a brand to being faithful in marriage?Exactly :bang:Ok yes, of course it's quite an extreme and obtuse comparison/analogy but so are many other points being made (and NOT being made) here LOL. :D




Nutswinging at its finest.Nutswinging how exactly?:huh:
I was merely trying (unsuccesfully of course LOL) to speak/justify for others who might be brand loyal...I for one, AM NOT.
I love both GM and Ford (and Camaros and Mustangs) equally, one might be able to call me a domestic nameplate :usa: :swing: nutswinger though. :lol: ;)

The way somebody rolls up to a car show, and the way somebody cruising on the street rolls around (drag radials or slicks on different wheels) looking to have some fun is potentially a big difference.

The Corvette weekend was a week after Hot Rod weekend. Both were more than just car shows. Hot Rod weekend had blown Fords, big power Corvettes, and turbo imports everywhere looking to have some fun on the street. Too bad most showed with street tires and got pushed around by 12 second cars that worked.

I guess building a car that's capable of making good use of it's power at all times is now out of style. Silly me, I should have built a dyno sheet.

I just participated in a Corvette event, with nearly 1000 cars. Dozens of twin turbo cars, dozens of superchargers, god knows how many strokers... I think I saw 95% of the Corvettes there. I counted 8 cars on drag radials.

What kind of "event" was this? Drag racing only?

Call it a generalization if you want, I won't argue that. But to say it's not close to true? :eyes: Look around... Most of the guys here that have built their cars did so second hand, especially the more expensive stuff like the Z06s.

Finally, I have no reason to troll Mustang sites. I've met more GT500 owners than you have posts. Having driven numerous GT500s (through 2010), C6Z06s, and the like. I can say in my experience the GT500 simply cannot make good use of the power it already has. This is backed up the the countless 13 second quarters I've seen from these cars.
Im thinking that the "modifying" that is being talked about here isn't necessarily to go only strait, especially when we are talking about Corvettes. I don't see the point in modifying something that is a purpose built road course car, made ground up to turn, into something that can only go strait and drives like crap. If I had a Corvette it would never see drag radials, kills how it handles. Hell my car will likely never see drag radials, Im not going to ruin how it drives to impress some kids from a dig.
Likely the guys you saw at this event were just there to have some fun, not to be seriously drag racing and probably couldn't care less if some purpose built drag car can beat them in a strait line... Real cars turn anyways :)

The Corvette weekend was a week after Hot Rod weekend. Both were more than just car shows. Hot Rod weekend had blown Fords, big power Corvettes, and turbo imports everywhere looking to have some fun on the street. Too bad most showed with street tires and got pushed around by 12 second cars that worked.

I guess building a car that's capable of making good use of it's power at all times is now out of style. Silly me, I should have built a dyno sheet.

Really?

The Corvette weekend was a week after Hot Rod weekend. Both were more than just car shows. Hot Rod weekend had blown Fords, big power Corvettes, and turbo imports everywhere looking to have some fun on the street. Too bad most showed with street tires and got pushed around by 12 second cars that worked.

I guess building a car that's capable of making good use of it's power at all times is now out of style. Silly me, I should have built a dyno sheet.

Not everyone you see at a drag strip is always concerned with running the best possible time when theya re there. Don't put much stock in people that are just mkaing passes for fun

From Jalopnik this morning

After Ford brought out its potentially ZL1-killing 650-horsepower 2013 Shelby GT500, Joel Ewanick, global vice president of GM marketing, decided to drop the gauntlet down at the feet of Ford. "We should take a Camaro, Ford brings a Mustang, we each pick our drivers, and see who has the best time on the Nürburgring," Ewanick said to Scott Burgess of the Detroit News. Jim Farley, who heads Ford's global marketing, wasn't taking the bait despite professed claims to a desire to "take a bat" to Chevrolet. "I wish we could," he said, after hearing about Ewanick's challenge. "Who wouldn't want to do that?" Huh. Sounds to us like maybe Ford's chicken. Hey, Farley — bawk-bawk-bawk-BA-kawk!

I'd like to see that, but with production versions of each car.

From Jalopnik this morning

After Ford brought out its potentially ZL1-killing 650-horsepower 2013 Shelby GT500, Joel Ewanick, global vice president of GM marketing, decided to drop the gauntlet down at the feet of Ford. "We should take a Camaro, Ford brings a Mustang, we each pick our drivers, and see who has the best time on the Nürburgring," Ewanick said to Scott Burgess of the Detroit News. Jim Farley, who heads Ford's global marketing, wasn't taking the bait despite professed claims to a desire to "take a bat" to Chevrolet. "I wish we could," he said, after hearing about Ewanick's challenge. "Who wouldn't want to do that?" Huh. Sounds to us like maybe Ford's chicken. Hey, Farley — bawk-bawk-bawk-BA-kawk!

Maybe prospect of realistically comparing 'Ring times isn't so far fetched after all?

Meh, you can have a 10-20sec difference in lap times on the 'Ring with close to equal drivers. Nobody can drive around that track and hit every corner 100% perfect, so I still say it's a pointless test. GM probably knows they have a better driver than Ford as I can't recall Ford ever doing testing on the track, while GM has been with a lot of their cars. Have there been any tests with the 2011-12 GT500 and ZL1? I still think the '11-'12 would take a ZL1 around a track with equal drivers.

Have there been any tests with the 2011-12 GT500 and ZL1? I still think the '11-'12 would take a ZL1 around a track with equal drivers.

I think their point is they know they have a better handling car because they spent so much time and work focusing on that. The 2013 GT500 is raw power and a huge number on paper, it could be a total mess on a track. A BOSS would be a better match but 444hp might not be enough to keep it up with the ZL1 arond the 'Ring.

interesting response here.



http://www.mustangheaven.com/2011/zl1-chief-engineer-al-oppenheiser-hits-the-panic-button-fires-off-letter-to-camaro-fans/

The 2011 GT500 is a little faster than the Boss around shorter tracks, so I would guess that on a track like the 'Ring it would be much faster. Add 100hp plus everything else Ford is doing and that gap is only going to widen. They are not just straight line, big horsepower cars like a lot of people seem to think.

The Corvette weekend was a week after Hot Rod weekend. Both were more than just car shows. Hot Rod weekend had blown Fords, big power Corvettes, and turbo imports everywhere looking to have some fun on the street. Too bad most showed with street tires and got pushed around by 12 second cars that worked.

I guess building a car that's capable of making good use of it's power at all times is now out of style. Silly me, I should have built a dyno sheet.

This is all that matters, it's all in fun. I believe I know what event you're talking about as well. If it's the Ocean City show, of course you're going to see a bunch of high-powered cars running around on street tires, it's nothing more than a damn car show, not a bracket racing event. People are just out there having a good time, they have their fun runs on the street and go home, nobody takes that shit seriously.

interesting response here.



http://www.mustangheaven.com/2011/zl1-chief-engineer-al-oppenheiser-hits-the-panic-button-fires-off-letter-to-camaro-fans/

Interesting indeed...personally I can't wait for the comparisons.

I don't know how anyone can say this car isn't awesome. 650 hp from the factory. I tend to be a gm fan but ford has been doing a great job w/ the 5.0s, bosses and gt500s. But if they raise the price much, I think that is a problem. Even 50k is pushing it but doable for alot of people. If it goes to $60k, I think they lost most of the people that would really want this car. I thought 2008 and Obama was the end of decent cars. I guess I was wrong.

where GM messed up is doing their homework.

while a zl1 is a great car they shouldve been paying close attention to what ford was working on. there were rumors for awhile and GM reps shouldve been able to confirm or deny ford was going to have an answer.



i doubt GM was thinking one step ahead and going to be able to top this car.


i still think zl1s will be competitive but ford outdoing GM before a zl1 hits showrooms is somewhat embarrassing.

GM is banking on handling over power at this point. I think that's what they're pointing to with this letter and their R&D videos. No doubt GM is doing work on this car, but I doubt Ford is just slapping a larger HP engine in the GT500 and calling it a day. Time will tell though. Both cars are amazing, and if you have the coin for either I doubt you'd be disappointed in your decision.

Personally I'd like to see the comparo done on a shorter, technical track. Like mentioned before, the 'Ring is a massive lap that can require dozens (if not hundreds) of runs before a driver really has a proper grasp of how to take every single turn. At that point it's more of a test of the driver rather than the car. A shorter, more conventional race track would be a better test of the cars' prowess IMO.

Plus...'Ring times have become too much of a marketing ploy these last few years. It's become almost like racing dyno slips now.

i think GM is underestimating the handling of the gt500...just like they are certain the auto will beat the gt500 at the strip. sounds like GM is not only pissed that the ZL1 is gonna get its ass handed to it on a silver platter, but also that the GT500 makes more hp than the ZR1

We are making 750HP on the 07-12 GT500s with my VMP 2.3L TVS blower upgrade, without breaking a sweat. My personal 07 GT500 with my VMP TVS makes over 950HP (800 wheel). The 13 cars rated at only 650HP with a TVS and .4L larger displacement has got to be de-tuned like crazy. It should be interesting when we start to upgrade them. I was just on the phone yesterday with one of the big GM tuners talking about how the new ZL1s could be upgraded. It's all in good fun :).

Personally I'd like to see the comparo done on a shorter, technical track. Like mentioned before, the 'Ring is a massive lap that can require dozens (if not hundreds) of runs before a driver really has a proper grasp of how to take every single turn. At that point it's more of a test of the driver rather than the car. A shorter, more conventional race track would be a better test of the cars' prowess IMO.

Plus...'Ring times have become too much of a marketing ploy these last few years. It's become almost like racing dyno slips now.

I agree. How about a track like Laguna Seca?

My take is that if we hear a rumor, GM hears a rumor. GM knows what Ford is doing, and Ford knows what GM is doing. GM seems to be quite confident the ZL1 can compete with the GT500, so I believe that while it may be down on horsepower, it will do just that.

We all know how much a great suspension can more than make up for deficient horsepower. GM has a ton of R&D in their suspension and tweaking and it will come out when poised against the GT500. Ford's move seems to be a push of brute force as the mustang has already proven itself as a worthy track car.

It is exciting times, and I feel that magazine and website comparisons will vary based on drivers and what each journalist is looking for. Some will gauge the cars based on suspension and driving feel and some will decide on brute force.

Either way, I'm just excited to be able to pick from either of these great cars in the used market in a few years.

I guess I fail to understand why the 2012 ZL1 is being compared to the 2013 GT500 when it was designed to rival the CURRENT GT500.

Because you also fail to release that the ZL1 isn't coming out until calendar year 2012, so the '13 GT500 will be out shortly thereafter.

No hate, kudos to Ford for one upmanship and offering Recaros on this war machine.

No hate, kudos to Ford for one upmanship and offering Recaros on this war machine.:nod:

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this...


Does it really matter that the handling is going to be so great on the ZL1; when most drivers will never even be able to use it to it's full extent?

I drove a friends C6 Z06, and can tell you that most drivers aren't good enough drivers to even see half of what that car was built for...there is more car than there is driver.

If I wanted a car that handled exceptionally well, I would step up to the base Corvette over the Camero any day of the week.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this...


Does it really matter that the handling is going to be so great on the ZL1; when most drivers will never even be able to use it to it's full extent?

I drove a friends C6 Z06, and can tell you that most drivers aren't good enough drivers to even see half of what that car was built for...there is more car than there is driver.

If I wanted a car that handled exceptionally well, I would step up to the base Corvette over the Camero any day of the week.

Most drivers won't be able to use 650hp to it's full extent either.

Does it really matter that the handling is going to be so great on the ZL1; when most drivers will never even be able to use it to it's full extent?

I drove a friends C6 Z06, and can tell you that most drivers aren't good enough drivers to even see half of what that car was built for...there is more car than there is driver.

If I wanted a car that handled exceptionally well, I would step up to the base Corvette over the Camero any day of the week.Decent points.
And I prefer the Camaro over those Cameros. :D ;)





Most drivers won't be able to use 650hp to it's full extent either.Good point as well. :nod:

They might not be able to use it on the street from a dig, but once moving I'm sure it is fairly easy to take advantage of all that power in a variety of situations.

They might not be able to use it on the street from a dig, but once moving I'm sure it is fairly easy to take advantage of all that power in a variety of situations.

For all of about 8 seconds. But man, what a great 8 seconds that'll be.:burn:

This car is nice, but there is already a mustang with more power than this one.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/14/shelby-announces-2011-gt500-super-snake-with-up-to-800-horsepowe/

If I'm spending this kind of money anyway, I'm gonna get the best package :headbang:

You know that's $30k on top of the GT500 price, right? This new ones only going to be around $55k, not $80k like everyone seems to think.

You know that's $30k on top of the GT500 price, right? This new ones only going to be around $55k, not $80k like everyone seems to think.

I don't know man, after the dealer mark-ups, it probably won't be far from that $80k at all.

They aren't going to sell them with a $30k markup, it's not a new car it's just more power.

Actually, yeah you're probably right on that one. But, I still think they will end up being a little bit more than $55k. Nicely optioned 2012's are over $56k, add in the new powertrain, brakes, carbon fiber drive shaft etc., etc., I don't know, I can definitely picture them being in the low-mid 60's.

But, this is all speculation, we shall see.

Most likely who ever buys one of these bad boys wont be paying cash for it anyhow, so if your already gonna be financing something that expensive you might as well get a 800hp cobra.

Alot of people will never really max out either the newest Mustang or Camaro....both can be 750+ rwhp daily drivers on pump gas without giving up drivability. Both are cool looking cars and although expensive....within reach for more people then you would think.

It's a good time to be into muscle cars, they are great collector, racing and everyday cars. It's time for Dodge to step it up and join the pack. The muscle car wars are back.

I like them both and I always hated Ford. I'd usally bash Ford and although their platform isn't perfect (which I doubt the Camaro is either), they have built an awesome car no matter how you look at it......I still like the Camaro more ahhaah ;-)

Alot of people will never really max out either the newest Mustang or Camaro....both can be 750+ rwhp daily drivers on pump gas without giving up drivability. Both are cool looking cars and although expensive....within reach for more people then you would think.

It's a good time to be into muscle cars, they are great collector, racing and everyday cars. It's time for Dodge to step it up and join the pack. The muscle car wars are back.

I like them both and I always hated Ford. I'd usally bash Ford and although their platform isn't perfect (which I doubt the Camaro is either), they have built an awesome car no matter how you look at it

^^This.
Well said Joe.:cheers:

ZL1 does nothing for me. This GT500 is going to be king ding-a-ling without a doubt... The car is obviously the total package. Who can argue with looks like that

ZL1 does nothing for me. This GT500 is going to be king ding-a-ling without a doubt... The car is obviously the total package. Who can argue with looks like that

Meh, it looks good, but the ZL1 is the looker of the two. I said in a different thread that the 2011+ Base/GT Mustang looks better than Base/SS Camaro, but the '11 styling update gets diluted in the GT500 which looks quite the same, if not worse, than when they appeared as a 2007 model.

But saying what they say about opinions, :cheers:

How much boost is the GT 500 and ZL1 putting out stock?

GT500 is 15#, IIRC...way detuned of course

This... Just remember the ZL1 was created in mind to compete with the 2011/12 GT500 NOT the 2013 GT500.. So Ford is responding to the ZL1. Just means GM will respond back with with some more hp & hopefully weight reduction. People say GM needs to catch up? Chevy comes out with the LT1 Camaro in 1993. Ford Comes out its new Mustang in 1994. Chevy comes out with the LS1 Camaro in 1998. Ford comes out with its new Mustang in 1999. Chevy then comes out with the 2010 Camaro. Ford responds with the 5.0 Mustang. Chevy comes out with the 2012 ZL1. Ford responds with the 2013 GT500 :engarde:

this^^^^^

Makes me think; why GM is even producing the LSA?? Would be less complicated to put the LS9 in everything. Anyway, the Corvette is going to be faster than every other LS9 powered car cause of the weight. Waste of time and money IMO.

GM better be waking up fast, because ZL1 wont be king of the hills for long, like 6 months LOL

Makes me think; why GM is even producing the LSA?? Would be less complicated to put the LS9 in everything. Anyway, the Corvette is going to be faster than every other LS9 powered car cause of the weight. Waste of time and money IMO.

GM better be waking up fast, because ZL1 wont be king of the hills for long, like 6 months LOL

less. more like 60-90 days before the gt500 arrives...

Makes me think; why GM is even producing the LSA?? Would be less complicated to put the LS9 in everything. Anyway, the Corvette is going to be faster than every other LS9 powered car cause of the weight. Waste of time and money IMO.

GM better be waking up fast, because ZL1 wont be king of the hills for long, like 6 months LOLthats assuming it will be faster than the 2012 GT500...

Makes me think; why GM is even producing the LSA?? Would be less complicated to put the LS9 in everything. Anyway, the Corvette is going to be faster than every other LS9 powered car cause of the weight. Waste of time and money IMO.

GM better be waking up fast, because ZL1 wont be king of the hills for long, like 6 months LOL

Not aware of the corvette rule?:confused: There are reasons Pontiacs were held back. As long as mustang has more power than Vette the Camaro is fucked.

Thought this was pretty interesting...

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/editorials-opinions/paul-huizenga-whats-in-a-number-gt500-versus-zl1/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=paul-huizenga-whats-in-a-number-gt500-versus-zl1

There's nothing interesting about that :lol:. The '99 Cobra was a production mistake that was corrected. Ford doesn't exactly have a history of over-rating their cars, as that article would lead you to believe.

There's nothing interesting about that :lol:. The '99 Cobra was a production mistake that was corrected. Ford doesn't exactly have a history of over-rating their cars, as that article would lead you to believe.

You can keep telling yourself that.... ;) haha hey like it says in the article until I see the GT500 hit the dyno, track, drag strip. I won't believe any numbers

Cool.

You can keep telling yourself that.... ;) haha hey like it says in the article until I see the GT500 hit the dyno, track, drag strip. I won't believe any numbers

but yet you are so ready to suck GM's dick for the zl1, which like the gt500, has not "hit the dyno, track, drag strip" bet you believ that their numbers though right?

It was in Germany, so you can remove track from the equation.^^

You can keep telling yourself that.... ;) haha hey like it says in the article until I see the GT500 hit the dyno, track, drag strip. I won't believe any numbers

So I guess you want to save the disappointment for later? lol

The Ford Racing tvs kit for the 2010 cars is rated at 660hp with a 72mm pulley and is just a blower, tune and intake resonator deltete.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/product.aspx?p=M6066MSVTA&utm_source=google&utm_medium=merchant&utm_campaign=shopping
The new car runs the same size blower (with a reworked inlet for better flow), a 69mm pulley for more boost, has higher compression and 7% more displacemnt, yet it is "only" rated at 650hp. I am sure most people can see the car is pretty detuned from the factory, and the engineers said that the development cars had no trouble making more at the wheels than the ZL-1 is rated for at the crank.

but yet you are so ready to suck GM's dick for the zl1, which like the gt500, has not "hit the dyno, track, drag strip" bet you believ that their numbers though right?

I like how he brings up the 99' cobra incident; ever since then ford has been known to underrate their cars so the haters should be even more worried if anything. IIRC, the mach1's were rated at 305hp and they run stock/stock with LS1 fbodies(globally known as underrated at 325hp), 03-04 cobra's rated 390 and almost all of those layed 360whp to the ground. If someone is gonna undercut this new GT500 because of some 13 year old results, at least know a little about the situation. Ford now rates there cars conservatively, so I have little doubt about this easily achievable number of 650hp to the crank.

thats assuming it will be faster than the 2012 GT500...

This. The 2012 GT500 already has a HP/weight advantage to the ZL1, so I'm guessing all track times are going to be close, with the '12 GT500 having the slight edge. The 2013 is just going to come and destroy it :D

You can keep telling yourself that.... ;) haha hey like it says in the article until I see the GT500 hit the dyno, track, drag strip. I won't believe any numbers

That was how long ago? Some people just can't handle a Mustang handing a Camaro it's ass! :lol: Not only did they fix all of the '99s with that problem, they then came out with the 03/04 Cobra that would put down about the same numbers at the wheels as it was rated at the crank. I would go as far to say that with the boost they are pushing on this new GT500 the 650hp rating is going to be noticeably less than what it's really making.

So far the CTS-V has been handing the current Gt500 it's ass.....I don't know what you guys are worried about. With the Camaro being a little lighter and having a little more power than the V it should be close between ZL1 and the 13 GT500.

I don't know about "handing it's ass." They both have dipped into the 11s on stock tires. Has anyone ruin a CTS-V on slicks or drag radials?

So far the CTS-V has been handing the current Gt500 it's ass.....I don't know what you guys are worried about. With the Camaro being a little lighter and having a little more power than the V it should be close between ZL1 and the 13 GT500.

It better be. It costs about 17 grand more. BTW it doesn't hand the gt500 nothing.

So far the CTS-V has been handing the current Gt500 it's ass.....I don't know what you guys are worried about. With the Camaro being a little lighter and having a little more power than the V it should be close between ZL1 and the 13 GT500.

With GOOD drivers in both I'm pretty sure the GT500 is right along side, if not ahead of the CTS-V in all areas. I don't quite get how that's getting its ass handed to it? I doubt the ZL1 is going to be a lot faster than the CTS-V is, so I'm sure the ZL1 vs the 2011/2012 GT500 is going to be a fair fight, while the 2013 is going to be running neck and neck with the Z06. We all know Chevy isn't going to give their $55k Camaro the edge over their $75k+ Corvette, so I don't like its chances of beating the 2013 GT500.

There is a lot of ass handing going on in here.

There is a lot of ass handing going on in here.

You know you want to join in on all the fun! :wrist:

With GOOD drivers in both I'm pretty sure the GT500 is right along side, if not ahead of the CTS-V in all areas. I don't quite get how that's getting its ass handed to it? I doubt the ZL1 is going to be a lot faster than the CTS-V is, so I'm sure the ZL1 vs the 2011/2012 GT500 is going to be a fair fight, while the 2013 is going to be running neck and neck with the Z06. We all know Chevy isn't going to give their $55k Camaro the edge over their $75k+ Corvette, so I don't like its chances of beating the 2013 GT500.

I saw a test of the 2010 V and GT500, and the V did edge out the GT500, but the new GT500 will make the camaro and the V it's bitch.

By the rag mags the V outruns it......and the 1 V I seen run was quicker than 2 of the 3 gt500's. All 3 500 had tires atleast and the V was stock.

Oh, well then that is clearly an ass-handing. Sorry for questioning you...

By the rag mags the V outruns it......and the 1 V I seen run was quicker than 2 of the 3 gt500's. All 3 500 had tires atleast and the V was stock.

Only test I've seen the GT500 had ~3mph on the CTS-V, and they pretty much admitted they sucked at driving and the CTS-V won because of the auto. Either way, people have gone 11.1s with the GT500 stock+slicks, how many CTS-Vs have hit that mark? I know it took the Hennessey V700 Coupe 700hp and drag radials to go 10.9, I don't see a stock one coming close to that, and I strongly doubt the Camaro will be as fast as a 700hp CTS-V Coupe.

Only test I've seen the GT500 had ~3mph on the CTS-V, and they pretty much admitted they sucked at driving and the CTS-V won because of the auto. Either way, people have gone 11.1s with the GT500 stock+slicks, how many CTS-Vs have hit that mark? I know it took the Hennessey V700 Coupe 700hp and drag radials to go 10.9, I don't see a stock one coming close to that, and I strongly doubt the Camaro will be as fast as a 700hp CTS-V Coupe.

Everyone saw that comparison video and didnt care about the details. In one magazine comparison the CTS-V won; as a result it is kicking the GT500's ass in HIO land.

I call it a ass handing when a luxo cruiser outruns fords best effort......but that's just me.

I call it a ass handing when a luxo cruiser outruns fords best effort......but that's just me.

Everyone saw that comparison video and didnt care about the details. In one magazine comparison the CTS-V won; as a result it is kicking the GT500's ass in HIO land.

You're right it is just you. Are you starting to see the pattern here?

So far the CTS-V has been handing the current Gt500 it's ass.....I don't know what you guys are worried about. With the Camaro being a little lighter and having a little more power than the V it should be close between ZL1 and the 13 GT500.

the ZL1 is 4100 lbs..

He was saying it's lighter than the V Coupe.

I call it a ass handing when a luxo cruiser outruns fords best effort......but that's just me.

Out runs??? It had a slower trap speed, lol.

'12 GT500 vs 12 ZL1 will be a drivers race.
'13 GT500 vs ZL1 will have the ZL1 getting it's ass kicked. The shelby will have 5-6mph on it. In random run-ins on the street the ZL1 doesn't stand a chance. Not to mention that a lower pulley, throttlebody and cat delet and tune will have the GT500 over 700whp.

I havn't had the chance to play with a CTS-V yet, but my brother is going to buy one tomorrow. My power output is a little closer to the 2013's though, so maybe I will get a preview of how that would work out ;)

Quicker et though. I would expect the 6m would trap more......maybe even et better. That seems to be the norm at that level.

He was saying it's lighter than the V Coupe.

Thanks for clarifying.:cheers:

Quicker et though. I would expect the 6m would trap more......maybe even et better. That seems to be the norm at that level.

Show me where the CTS-V in ANY form has ran 11.1 stock+slicks. And it is a $48,000 Ford outrunning a $65,000 GM, no matter how you want to look at it :D And like I said, the guys doing the test said the CTS-V won because of the auto, which IMO is admitting they weren't getting enough out of the GT500. Either way, shitty magazine drivers are a horrible way to say the CTS-V hands the GT500 it's ass.

Every gt500 runs 11.1 on a tire?.....guess I shod told those 2 guys that was running 12's on a tire.

We've been over this. It's not just what YOU see, we are talking about what the cars are capable of.

'12 GT500 vs 12 ZL1 will be a drivers race.
'13 GT500 vs ZL1 will have the ZL1 getting it's ass kicked. The shelby will have 5-6mph on it. In random run-ins on the street the ZL1 doesn't stand a chance.Against a manual ZL1 (and with equal drivers), I'd probably agree with all of the above. :nod:
But let's not forget that the ZL1 will be available with an automatic which can be a great equalizer from a dig, especially against the current 550hp GT500.
That 70hp advantage for 2013 (if it actually happens) will be tough to beat though, that's enough 'padding' to give even a weak manual driver the ability to keep up/win. And any highway/roll race win goes to the 2013 GT500 every time.

You guys still handing asses out?

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this...


Does it really matter that the handling is going to be so great on the ZL1; when most drivers will never even be able to use it to it's full extent?

I drove a friends C6 Z06, and can tell you that most drivers aren't good enough drivers to even see half of what that car was built for...there is more car than there is driver.

If I wanted a car that handled exceptionally well, I would step up to the base Corvette over the Camero any day of the week.

No doesn't matter, you are 100% correct. But it's all bragging rights. Kinda like you don't need a 650hp car, or a 580hp car... sh1t why not we all go get corollas? It'll get us through snow better.

They brag about their handling(and hopefully back up) because it's down on power, and it needs to be able to make up for it in some other form of way, and hopefully the GM fans will be in for a pleasant surprise, hopefully :)

Remember how impressive the 08 Cobalt SS was when it came out? It was being compared to the EVO? I hope the ZL1 can back it up!

It's all about bragging rights, kinda why everyone is wanting to hand each other their asses lol

Chill out kids, it's not a ferrari, a mustang will get your an equal amount of attention as a camaro and vise versa.

Even if the Camaro loses, GM still got the Vette :)

Against a manual ZL1 (and with equal drivers), I'd probably agree with all of the above. :nod:
But let's not forget that the ZL1 will be available with an automatic which can be a great equalizer from a dig, especially against the current 550hp GT500.
That 70hp advantage for 2013 (if it actually happens) will be tough to beat though, that's enough 'padding' to give even a weak manual driver the ability to keep up/win. And any highway/roll race win goes to the 2013 GT500 every time.

I wouldn't doubt the RW numbers being in the 610-625 range, a TVS on the old 5.4 would easily make over 600rwhp

I saying it now, the '13 will go mid 11s@124-126 with an average driver...that launch control is pretty neat, MM+FF had a decent write up on it

I'd estimate the ZL1 averaging low low 12s, with a good driver and or auto cars going high 11s