Corvette Performance - Manual or Auto?

I'm looking at 08 and up Vettes. I've driven an LS M6 Camaro for 12 years and love it. I know all of the pro's and con's of a manual, but know very little about the newer A6 other than it will get you out of the hole more consistantly.

I'm not sure about my goals yet. Either a medium cam and full exhaust or a blower, but probably not much over 500ish rwhp and daily driven.

I like the idea of snatching up any gear at any time and having less drivetrain loss, but I've been told the new auto is amazing. A Manual will eventually need a clutch upgrade and an Auto will want a stall.

What do you like about the Auto? What are the downsides? Is the new auto really that great? Is a stall a dramatic upgrade?

Any thoughts would be helpful.
Thanks.

Manual only. The 6 speed auto is a nightmare. Even if you want an automatic, buy a manual transmission car and swap in a built 4L60e. You will be much happier in the long run.

Oh great, now you say that.

Oh great, now you say that.

Uhh oh :(

I have read on Camaro5 about a lot of success people are having with the heavy 5th gen and a 6L80. Do you guys build them or are they that much of a pain?

There is a lot of wool being pulled over people eyes about them too. They are getting better as time goes on. But the earlier units are failing regularly. We have done many many 4L60e and 4L80e conversions in 6L80e equiped cars. The problem lies in the way they are controlled by the ECM/TCM. Every aspect of the engine tuning affects the transmission tuning as well. The 6L80e transmission is also a clutch/clutch type transmissions. Where-as the 4L60e and 4L80e are clutch/band type transmissions. With a clutch/clutch trans you have to allow time for the first clutch to disengauge before you apply the next clutch. And while doing this you need to allow some torque management to remain in the tuning to pull timing and power down the engine on the shifts. This is similar to what they have been doing with the Allison transmissions in the Duramax trucks for years. But everyone wants that firm, tire chirping shift they have grown accustomed to over the years. So the tuner cuts the shift timing out and rams the clutches home into the next gear which will bind the clutches and eventually fail the transmission.

Some of the tuners on here have had great success with them. But eventually they fail and non of the aftermarket rebuilders (including us) can build them any better/stronger than the OEM GM unit was from the factory.

So by the time you put 3-4 6L80e transmissions in the car over a few years and delt with the downtime and labor to R&R the trans you could have done a 4 speed auto conversion and been enjoying your car instead of fixing it.

Just stick to a proven manual, and having an auto sucks on a twisty road

Damn, Glad I asked... Thanks!

Jeremy, how is the A6 living behind the CTS-V's power? Lots of torque management?

There is a lot of wool being pulled over people eyes about them too. They are getting better as time goes on. But the earlier units are failing regularly. We have done many many 4L60e and 4L80e conversions in 6L80e equiped cars. The problem lies in the way they are controlled by the ECM/TCM. Every aspect of the engine tuning affects the transmission tuning as well. The 6L80e transmission is also a clutch/clutch type transmissions. Where-as the 4L60e and 4L80e are clutch/band type transmissions. With a clutch/clutch trans you have to allow time for the first clutch to disengauge before you apply the next clutch. And while doing this you need to allow some torque management to remain in the tuning to pull timing and power down the engine on the shifts. This is similar to what they have been doing with the Allison transmissions in the Duramax trucks for years. But everyone wants that firm, tire chirping shift they have grown accustomed to over the years. So the tuner cuts the shift timing out and rams the clutches home into the next gear which will bind the clutches and eventually fail the transmission.

Some of the tuners on here have had great success with them. But eventually they fail and non of the aftermarket rebuilders (including us) can build them any better/stronger than the OEM GM unit was from the factory.

So by the time you put 3-4 6L80e transmissions in the car over a few years and delt with the downtime and labor to R&R the trans you could have done a 4 speed auto conversion and been enjoying your car instead of fixing it.

Wow I had no idea the A6 where like that. How long would you suspect a beating would last on a tuned A6 car with 400 rwhp?

It really depends on what you wanna do with the car. Mine is a dd and other have them as well doin 10.8 @ 128 on corvette forum 6 speed manuel cam only. I like that cause gives me something to look forward to when I put my cam in.

How long would you suspect a beating would last on a tuned A6 car with 400 rwhp?I have probably over 200+ all out passes on my 6L80 with just under 400rwhp along with another 100 passes or so in stock/near stock trim before that and mine is still going strong. :nod:
But I do believe that my tuner (Cartek Performance Engineering) utilizes much of the intelligent programming procedures that Jeremy was talking about above so that could be part of it. :nod:

There is a lot of wool being pulled over people eyes about them too. They are getting better as time goes on. But the earlier units are failing regularly. We have done many many 4L60e and 4L80e conversions in 6L80e equiped cars. The problem lies in the way they are controlled by the ECM/TCM. Every aspect of the engine tuning affects the transmission tuning as well. The 6L80e transmission is also a clutch/clutch type transmissions. Where-as the 4L60e and 4L80e are clutch/band type transmissions. With a clutch/clutch trans you have to allow time for the first clutch to disengauge before you apply the next clutch. And while doing this you need to allow some torque management to remain in the tuning to pull timing and power down the engine on the shifts. This is similar to what they have been doing with the Allison transmissions in the Duramax trucks for years. But everyone wants that firm, tire chirping shift they have grown accustomed to over the years. So the tuner cuts the shift timing out and rams the clutches home into the next gear which will bind the clutches and eventually fail the transmission.

Some of the tuners on here have had great success with them. But eventually they fail and non of the aftermarket rebuilders (including us) can build them any better/stronger than the OEM GM unit was from the factory.

So by the time you put 3-4 6L80e transmissions in the car over a few years and delt with the downtime and labor to R&R the trans you could have done a 4 speed auto conversion and been enjoying your car instead of fixing it.
Thanks for the info, looks like a conversion is in my future if my plans for this car come to fruition.

Buy both! :D

HAHA... JK. Stick to the stick.

The 6 speed auto is a nightmare.
This scares me as I was in love with the quick shifts and paddle shifters of the 6l80e.
There is a lot of wool being pulled over people eyes about them too. They are getting better as time goes on. But the earlier units are failing regularly. Some of the tuners on here have had great success with them. But eventually they fail and non of the aftermarket rebuilders (including us) can build them any better/stronger than the OEM GM unit was from the factory.

So by the time you put 3-4 6L80e transmissions in the car over a few years and delt with the downtime and labor to R&R the trans you could have done a 4 speed auto conversion and been enjoying your car instead of fixing it.
That is crazy. I guess I was so happy seeing guys like Silver Bullet easily pull 9's on many passes in his 2008 SC Corvette and was considering swapping a 6l80e in a C6Z if I get one. Had no clue the 4l80e is such a better option. I really don't want to go through many transmissions though. Just kind of want to get into it and drive. Maybe bolt-ons for a few years, heads and cam later long term goals

Which converter would you go with if you went that route?

Go with the six speed

well if your gonna have a 4 speed auto in a C6 you might as well not even buy one and just get a C5. the whole reason i would even consider a auto in a C6 is because its a 6 speed.

well if your gonna have a 4 speed auto in a C6 you might as well not even buy one and just get a C5. the whole reason i would even consider a auto in a C6 is because its a 6 speed.

The 6 speed auto in the C6 has been a headache from day one. There are many other reasons to buy a C6 besides the 6 speed auto. If I was corvette shopping and didn't have the cash for a C6 Z06, I would buy an 08+ base model C6 M6 car. Then if I wanted an auto I would buy the same car and have it converted to a 4L65e.

was considering swapping a 6l80e in a C6Z if I get one.

Horrible, horrible idea :)

The 6 speed auto in the C6 has been a headache from day one. There are many other reasons to buy a C6 besides the 6 speed auto. If I was corvette shopping and didn't have the cash for a C6 Z06, I would buy an 08+ base model C6 M6 car. Then if I wanted an auto I would buy the same car and have it converted to a 4L65e.:nod: That, or simply start with a 2005 automatic (4L65E) and build from there.
The LS2 is still a great motor to start with, the car is cheaper to buy and is also obviously already set up to accept the more 'mod friendly' 4 speed auto. :nod:

I'll just buy a C5 that already has a 4 speed auto if I with an automatic. To me it seems dumb to to put a 4 speed in a car that had a 6 speed.

I'll just buy a C5 that already has a 4 speed auto if I with an automatic. To me it seems dumb to to put a 4 speed in a car that had a 6 speed.I agree.
If I were building a fast/consistent street/strip car right now it would either be an automatic C5 or automatic 2005 C6. :nod:

My first Corvette will be purchased in the next year and from I have read the C5 seems like the way to go. For the money I would spend on C6 I could modify a C5.

:nod: That, or simply start with a 2005 automatic (4L65E) and build from there.
The LS2 is still a great motor to start with, the car is cheaper to buy and is also obviously already set up to accept the more 'mod friendly' 4 speed auto. :nod:
Nah. There's more headache with the 05. Electrical and differential issues. Pick your battles. I'd rather have less electrical issues.

I love 6 speed

My first Corvette will be purchased in the next year and from I have read the C5 seems like the way to go. For the money I would spend on C6 I could modify a C5.Good point, C5's are great platforms to start with and they are a true bargain in the used market.





Nah. There's more headache with the 05. Electrical and differential issues. Pick your battles. I'd rather have less electrical issues.Yes, one of the first things that needs to be addressed if building an '05 for hard street/strip duty is the rear, that's almost a given, of course the money saved on buying an '05 over a later model year helps pay for that part and it's still easier to install a stonger rear than it is to try and adapt a 4L65 where a 6L80 used to reside.
The electrical issues are not necessarily going to be a concern on every single 2005, it's generally a hit or miss situation there.
I only suggest it for those seeking an automatic that they're going to build for strip duty...if one was staying stock or choosing a manual trans then I would definitely recommend a 2006 or later. :nod:

OK... I can definitely agree with that.