Chevrolet Performance LSX Challenge Series and LSX Shootout - 2012 LSX Challenge Preliminary Rules

Attached is the link to the 2012 LSX Challenge Preliminary rules for review. Please look them over and submit any suggestions to NMCArules@promediapub.com by December 23, 2011

http://www.nmcadigital.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14679

real street changes are interesting, but I think needed. Can't wait to see how this year pans out

Since you stated 'Preliminary' I am hoping there are some things still getting thought about. So I would like to get this out there again.


SUSPENSION:
"Stock style suspension cars only. Aftermarket bolt-on replacement front K-members are allowed (if front shocks bolt to K-member then they must be in factory location). For 1974 and earlier model years, OEM strut tower/shock tower may be removed in lieu of installing/using commercially available suspension kit. (IE Heidt, Fat Man, Alston, Smith Racecraft etc)with a 50 pound weight adder. Other sections of front suspension rules must be adhered to. Mini tubs are allowed. Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame. Stock rear sub frames are required, but outer frame rail portion only may be notched for tire clearance only. When notching, stock inboard section of rear frame rails must remain stock, unaltered, and in stock location. Rear frame rails must remain in OEM stock condition in all areas. Four links and back half cars are prohibited. Aftermarket direct replacement components such as: front control arms, rear control arms, front coil over shocks, and rear coil over shocks are permitted. Aftermarket rack and pinion steering permitted. Bolt-on or welded sub-frame connectors, rear sway bars, are permitted on all cars. Torque arms are only permitted on cars that came originally equipped from factory (with exception of IRS conversion cars). Cars originally equipped with rear wheel drive Independent rear suspension will be permitted to convert to solid axle and OEM design torque arm i.e., Corvette, GTO, 5th Gen Camaro."

Please clarify the above bolded statements, the wording seems off to me.

I have a question. Why not a ladder bar? An F-Body with a coil over and torque arm is a killer drag set up. I wouldn't see the advantage of a ladder bar set up adhering to all the other body, frame rail, and suspension rules in this power adder limited class. Would anyone object? NMCA - can this be considered? The winning F-Body has gone 1.21 60's in competition. I just can't see any adavantage in a ladder bar other than opening the door for different car bodies (older originally equipped leaf spring type) to compete.

From a spectator standpoint (perception), if that is even a concern for NMCA and how this class is perceived, I cannot see any misconceptions being obtained when looking at a car with all its original glass and metal in place vs. a car with fiberglass, lexan, and stickers all over it when a spectator forms a thought about what kind of class it is they are watching. This is supposed to be a real street class, not OLD. Point being; perception about a ladder bar suspension is something a spectator would not even recognize, opposed to the other, more obvious things I stated that are already allowed. Isn't it all about perception? If not, is it about a performance advantage? Is there going to be one, IMO, no way.

Here is what I want to enter.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM046.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM045.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM044.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM043.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM035.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM002.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM003.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSMinitubChassisRobM001.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSchassiswork09004.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaSSchassiswork09001.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/66WhiteNovaLadderBarbeforeandafterlower010.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/Mostrecent66Novapics010.jpg

The real limiting factor in this class is the weight, tire, and power adder restriction. Why the stock suspension rule with all the disclaimers? I can understand no 4-link or backhalf cars to keep more of a 'street car' presence when viewed by a spectator, etc. But I don't see where an entry like my proposed entry defies that at all, in fact, it is more street car appearing than some current entries.

I know you don't have to, but can I get an explanation or more importantly - reconsideration? I would like to encourage the rule committee to reconsider the ladder bar exemption from the class.

I have contacted NMCA directly and haven't been able to get an answer on the reason Why it won't be considered. Since I see you frequent the boards I am throwing this out there for all the participants to see, maybe it is still under consideration, I don't know.

Thank you for your time.

slap 50lbs on the ladder bar cars and let em' eat. It works for x275

I like the changes. We were just talking about this during lunch. So when will it be official?

Please Change Qualifying for Rumble it is just wrong to have first round eliminations as first round qualifying. Even if you don't pair the cars till second round. Makes no sense.

Please Change Qualifying for Rumble it is just wrong to have first round eliminations as first round qualifying. Even if you don't pair the cars till second round. Makes no sense.

I agree 100%. This rule is just plain dumb. If you cut a good light and lift a lot at the end you essentially get penalized for it. If you are going to give points for qualifying, then base it off of actual qualifying passes and make them worth something. I don't see how anyone who plans on running points being fine with this rule.

I like the Real Street weight increases, but.............

Why is the weight break only 20cu.in. difference?

I always thought it should be:

Stock cube LS1, LS6, LS2, LS3 to be the lighter weight with a cap of 390cu.in.

Stroked/bored LS1,6,2,3 and Stock cu. LS7 the heavier class with a cap of 430cu.in.

Any thing over 430cu.in. add 2lbs. per cu.in. with a cap of 480cu.in.

LAST YEAR AFTERMARKET DOORS WHERE OK IN DRAG RADIAL. might want to rethink that one. and give the nitrous cars a chance.

Attached is the link to the 2012 LSX Challenge Preliminary rules for review. Please look them over and submit any suggestions to NMCArules@promediapub.com by December 23, 2011

http://www.nmcadigital.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14679

i need to know about this ASAP please. i got a new set of doors ordered that i need to cancel on monday.IS FIBERGLASS DOORS OK FOR 2012 ?????????????????????????????????????????

Why did they add weight to a s/c combo when no one has even come close to being a contender with one yet??

what the hell does doors have to do with any thing any way.its a fiber glass part like a front end and fender.as long as its oem appearing.

This OEM door rule is BULL$HIT.

How in the hell do you plan on getting a Nitrous fbody to 2500 lbs using OEM parts???

I guess the NMCA just severely limited their car counts....and just excluded ANY competitive nitrous car from even considering trying to run DR.

Good job NMCA, keep it up and you won't have ANY cars.

Hmmm OEM doors for DR? I need to call a few folks, they will need to cancel some orders.

Thanks for the update Trey!!!

slap 50lbs on the ladder bar cars and let em' eat. It works for x275

Works for me! AM and OLD allow them with weight penalties as well.

Just looking to race the class. Weights are up there, that is for sure.

AM +125 for a OEM t56? whys that?



was there any talk about a slower headup class?

Don't forget to include the mid season rules adjustment for 2012.
The All Motor class should include a 100# deduction for IRS suspension.

2011 Mid Season LSX Rules Revisions and Clarifications
LSX All Motor-WEIGHT ADDER/DEDUCTS:
# OEM style and cast single plane intake manifolds deduct 100 lbs.
*Manual transmission – weight penalty of 200 lbs. added to base weights
Ladder bar and Non-OEM 4-Link suspended combinations add 50 lbs.
OEM IRS Suspension deduct 100 lbs.
LSX Real Street-WEIGHT ADDER/DEDUCTS:
*Manual transmission – weight penalty of 50 lbs. added to base weights

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:
Only OEM American automatic transmission allowed. Converter driven planetary transmissions are prohibited. Electric shifters or air shifters are prohibited. Trans Brakes are permitted. One piece, stock type, steel torque converter required.

MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS
MANUAL TRANSMISSION: Only T56 and TR6060 manual transmissions permitted. Clutchless models prohibited. Any gear change must occur from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, electric, hydraulic, etc. shifters prohibited. All transmissions must use either a). As produced, as supplied (unmodified) OEM gears and/or gear sets for transmission used). Gears and/or gear sets may not be utilized from other models. Transmission used is required to have a gear ratio in all gears as offered by the transmission used. Welding or grafting part of one countershaft to part of another counter shaft will not be accepted.
PERMITTED MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS:
Tremec T56-
Tremec TR6060-

Please Change Qualifying for Rumble it is just wrong to have first round eliminations as first round qualifying. Even if you don't pair the cars till second round. Makes no sense.

I agree 100%. This rule is just plain dumb. If you cut a good light and lift a lot at the end you essentially get penalized for it. If you are going to give points for qualifying, then base it off of actual qualifying passes and make them worth something. I don't see how anyone who plans on running points being fine with this rule.

Trust me when I say this: in order to have a more "entry level" class that appeals to a racer doing a points-style and/or qualifying on an index for the first time, you need to keep the index open for re-adjustment during "time runs" and not go on the qualifying sheet against their index until first round. NMRA Super Stang does this, and the only thing it does is eliminate qualifying points for 1st round losers.

Again I can see both sides of the argument, but as a tech guy that has done PLENTY of the LS races, I've seen and heard from more racers that will benefit from the rule staying as is versus changing it.

I raced the opener in Bradenton, and since some knew me from the LSX Shootouts of past, they asked if their indexes were "locked in" after making the first of 3 passes that weekend. When I said yes because at the time that was the rule, you should have seen the shocked looks and disgruntled remarks. As a result, they opened the option up to change any index before the last qualifying run, and most took it.

At 4 of the 5 LSX Shootout races, nearly half the Rumble and 5th Gen fields will change their indexes before the last qualifying shot. Hell, at Memphis the 2nd or 3rd year, I stood at the back of the staging lanes during eliminations and verified each and every index with the racers. This was after using the "declare you index" before the last qualifying shot, and there were still people that wanted to change (nearly a dozen!!).

I personally think locking in an index at tech inspection and not allowing for any changes will turn some away from trying this form of racing.

Derek

I dont see the reason for the door rule. The index has to be declared before the last qualifying pass. I still dont see how that conflicts with having the ladder based on the qualifying passes. The people that change the index screw themselves out of the number of chances they have. Hopefully the weight adder in real street keeps it above 8.50. I doubt it though

i like the binker rule to. lol and working it says

Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, rear deck and bumpers
Doors must be OEM
I read that to outlaw one piece front ends and aftermarket doors.

Floors must be upholstered, headliners required
Hers is another one that will surely be adhered to LOL

Well I'm out for real street.. front frame rails can't be altered..

what the....ive spent so much time and money on my vfn doors......doors dont mean diddley.oem appearing.your car makes weight, that important.

here's is the wording from last year????
BODY
Forward facing hood scoops prohibited except for OEM type for non-nitrous applications
Forward facing hood scoops permitted for nitrous applications
Cowl induction hoods permitted,
Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, doors, trunk/hatch and bumpers
Overhangs must be OEM, Wheelbase must be OEM +/- 1”
Replacement fiberglass/carbon panels must maintain OEM appearance and function
Rear spoilers permitted, max length 26”, may not be molded into the body

WINDSHIELD/WINDOWS
OEM safety glass or Lexan Permitted. Window tint is prohibited forward of the “B” pillar.

STREET EQUIPMENT
Headlights, taillights and brake lights required. Headlights, marker lights, brake lights, etc. must be on car and not removed for any reason.

Most of the cars running rumble swing a 1/2 second depending on the weather making it tough to figure your index till you get on the track.
I come from the northeast how do I know what my car will run in Fla or Atlanta. May as well call it bracket racing and just dial as we go.
Why give qualifying points at all? If we are not going to qualify. As long as we know when we need to lock in our index at tech is crazy. The first year was a tad confusing hopefully it will be a tad easier this year. Rumble seemed to get the short end of the stick on more then one occasion last yr.

I got an email coming your way.

I would like the qualifying to be just like the nhra top fuel funny car and whatever who does the same thing to be. #1 qualifyer vs worst or an uneven field means #1 gets the bye. The #2 qualifyer vs 2nd worst and so on and so forth. Thats just me tho. I understand that getting all these cars lined up right can be a problem if not organized but its unfair in my mind to have whoever line up against whoever first round. Qualifying 1st round is not something i like.

Once qualifying is done on saturday, something can be printed out and posted in a certain area for everyone to look at and see what car # name and car make and model and year they will be going against first round and who has lane choice. Not everyone will be prepared but us dedicated racers will most likely be.

Thats just what i would like, not sure what everyone else would want, and i don't want it to be more complicated but just fair to everyone. Rules are already made anyway lol.

Please don't rule out the possibility of typo or oversight in rule. They post these preliminary's so you have a chance to help with that.

For those of you with urgent issues with the rules, I would suggest calling them. If you have orders pending or plans to buy stuff...be absolutely sure! Call

For those wanting qualifying for Index, our index qualifying 1st round mirrors what promedia does/did with the NMRA Super Stang class. After much lobbying by their racers, with LSX racer Bobby Barrick being a key proponent, Promedia adopted a reaction time qualifying format for the their Super Stang class. Maybe you can consider requesting that via the official email listed above.

Well I'm out for real street.. front frame rails can't be altered..

I wonder what they mean altered? does your suspension not bolt in to the stock location??

Most of the cars running rumble swing a 1/2 second depending on the weather making it tough to figure your index till you get on the track.
I come from the northeast how do I know what my car will run in Fla or Atlanta. May as well call it bracket racing and just dial as we go.
Why give qualifying points at all? If we are not going to qualify. As long as we know when we need to lock in our index at tech is crazy. The first year was a tad confusing hopefully it will be a tad easier this year. Rumble seemed to get the short end of the stick on more then one occasion last yr.
As much as I love bracket racing, the appeal of index racing is two things:
1 - the fixed index means most that wouldn't care or know about accurately dialing their car round after round is eliminated, thus bringing more cars into the game.
2 - the pro tree. I've raced a sportsman tree a lot more, but ask most guys that are TNT or new to competition and they say a pro tree is more exciting to run and watch.

Again, I'm only one person, but this is how the Index class was done on "qualifying" for the first 4 years of the LSX Shootout (I worked 3 of the first 4, so I know from first-hand experience the reactions I get at tech and throughout the weekend). Then based on a few rules submissions, the NMCA changed it to declaring your index at tech in the rules for the 2011 LSX Challenge, and when enforced at Bradenton, it was met with mass confusion. As a more experienced racer, I didn't care b/c I never changed my index, but the # of those wanting to have the possibility of changing their index was far more than the ones not.

I'm not against using the reaction time to determine the ladder and bye runs. I'm on a racer's board at Gainesville Raceway and that was one of the first things we changed. The bye run each round was previously chosen by random pill choice, now it's the best winning r/t from the previous round.

Please don't rule out the possibility of typo or oversight in rule. They post these preliminary's so you have a chance to help with that.

For those of you with urgent issues with the rules, I would suggest calling them. If you have orders pending or plans to buy stuff...be absolutely sure! Call

For those wanting qualifying for Index, our index qualifying 1st round mirrors what promedia does/did with the NMRA Super Stang class. After much lobbying by their racers, with LSX racer Bobby Barrick being a key proponent, Promedia adopted a reaction time qualifying format for the their Super Stang class. Maybe you can consider requesting that via the official email listed above.

Good points Edgar. As mentioned, these are preliminary rules, and there are possibilities that changes can still be made. With that said, please contact NMCA DIRECTLY via e-mail and/or phone call if you want your voice heard!

Derek

I believe they want late model cars only to participate in Real Street, maybe it is sponsor related?

A Vette, GTO, and 5th Gen can run a completely aftermarket rear suspenion (i.e.Torque Arm set up (modern day ladder bar) with a coil over shock set up. But a mid/late 60's leaf spring car has to run the archaic leaf spring design it was built with? Can someone explain this to me? Yes, there are guys going fast on leaf springs, but there are also guys going fast on IRS, like 7.50's - faster than any leaf spring car on small tires I have ever seen, what is the difference? Sponsors, I am guessing.

It is odd they allow the front clip conversions for Chevy II's (with a weight penalty BTW - 50#), and allow rear coil overs, but then don't allow a ladder bar or torque arm for these cars or other older bodied stuff. So you can run this if you have a late 60's early 70's car, but the back end has to be 60's technology? I am confused.

Smith Racecraft Front end

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/2helicoil1/66%20Nova%20SS/smithracecraftNova.jpg

The rules specify 'No four links or backhalfs' specifically but don't say 'no ladder bars' , but they do say 'stock supsension cars only'. But then they allow torque arm conversions for the popular late model cars. And then allow rear coil overs (on 'stock suspension only' cars)

You can have Lexan all around the car and a rear wing (for a 160 mph car:D?), but then need a steering column cover, headliner, and upholstery.

Then you can have the outer rear frame rail notched for rear tire clearance only, but then the rear frame rails must remain in OEM stock condition in all areas.:confused:

Who writes and proofs this stuff?
Anyhoo, I am just pissing in the wind, because if no one has noticed they don't respond to these threads and maybe they might respond to your emails with a reason or return a phone call, but don't hold your breath. I believe this is just a formality they go through each year to satify the sponsors.

Sorry for the vent, but these goofy rules, exceptions, and disclaimers are frusturating and biased without reason IMO.

I can see where some's frusturations stem. I have read the yapping and bitching in threads like this for years, but now I can say I can honestly relate.

How about adding this, Pre-1974 cars can run a modified from stock rear suspension using ladder bars or a torque arm with coil overs in lieu of the factory design rear suspension. No four links or backhalfs allowed. All other rear suspension/frame rules must be adhered to. Hell, add 50# too if you think it is necessary.

Posting your comments on LS1 Tech will not get it done. Like all racing organizations you need to send comments in an e-mail or letter to the rules committee.
It doesn't always go my way but I always get a response from the NMCA.
:engarde:

Helicoil why not put a F1C on your blue car and run real street?

The weights are outrageous for Real Street. I also think the door rule in ODR is way over the top.

Let's face it, MPH is horsepower. In Real Street the Prestons have been 162 and LPE has been 164. You add 150 pounds to the Nitrous and Supercharged guys, but don't add any to the Turbo cars. Would it not have been so much simpler to give the turbo guys an 80MM Turbo or if you kept the 76MM rule, why not just take some weight from the Turbo guys??? Prestons raceweight will be dang near 3400 pounds. That's really hard on parts and I realize this is racing, but that's one hefty car!

ODR stuff...it's OUTLAW DRAG RADIAL...make the rules simple and let the guys run. I know everyone wants to see car counts up, but I think this will severely limit guys willing to run LSX stuff.

People that build a dedicated car, can't build it specifically for LSX racing. There are 4 races a year and lots of travel with limited payouts. Those guys also have to fit other rules of local classes to campaign their cars. There is no easy way and I wouldn't wanna be NMCA guys, but I really wanna see this series take off.

As much as I love bracket racing, the appeal of index racing is two things:
1 - the fixed index means most that wouldn't care or know about accurately dialing their car round after round is eliminated, thus bringing more cars into the game.
2 - the pro tree. I've raced a sportsman tree a lot more, but ask most guys that are TNT or new to competition and they say a pro tree is more exciting to run and watch.

Again, I'm only one person, but this is how the Index class was done on "qualifying" for the first 4 years of the LSX Shootout (I worked 3 of the first 4, so I know from first-hand experience the reactions I get at tech and throughout the weekend). Then based on a few rules submissions, the NMCA changed it to declaring your index at tech in the rules for the 2011 LSX Challenge, and when enforced at Bradenton, it was met with mass confusion. As a more experienced racer, I didn't care b/c I never changed my index, but the # of those wanting to have the possibility of changing their index was far more than the ones not.

I'm not against using the reaction time to determine the ladder and bye runs. I'm on a racer's board at Gainesville Raceway and that was one of the first things we changed. The bye run each round was previously chosen by random pill choice, now it's the best winning r/t from the previous round.



Good points Edgar. As mentioned, these are preliminary rules, and there are possibilities that changes can still be made. With that said, please contact NMCA DIRECTLY via e-mail and/or phone call if you want your voice heard!

Derek

Single races like the lsx shootout and holley fest in years past qualifing had no impact on anything cause there were no points awarded.
You just go to win the event no points.

Now that it became a series qualifing points matter.
If i drive to fla get knock out in first round I get no points.
At least I could pick up qualifing points.
First round qualifing is not qualifing its eliminations.

There has been confusion at many of the lsx events first year stuff happens.
I'm sure it should be smoother this year.
That is why we are on here.

I have raced in every shootout and lsx event joined the series to support the lsx community will continue to do so.

I sent my request to the nmca before I posted in here.

I thank all that support the LSXevents Looking forward to next year.

I wonder what they mean altered? does your suspension not bolt in to the stock location??

Bolts in stock location. All we did was cut the rad support out and frame rails back 6in and made it out of tube.

Now that it became a series qualifing points matter.
If i drive to fla get knock out in first round I get no points.
No sir, that's incorrect. You get tech points (50) first round loser points (100), even with the rules as they stand. The most you stand to lose is 90 points for being the top qualifier.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I'm glad you submitted your opinion to the NMCA though, because the opinions don't do anything unless the sanctioning body hears them!

As i read the rules this would not be legal for real street. Mine is basically the same

The weights are outrageous for Real Street. I also think the door rule in ODR is way over the top.

Let's face it, MPH is horsepower. In Real Street the Prestons have been 162 and LPE has been 164. You add 150 pounds to the Nitrous and Supercharged guys, but don't add any to the Turbo cars. Would it not have been so much simpler to give the turbo guys an 80MM Turbo or if you kept the 76MM rule, why not just take some weight from the Turbo guys??? Prestons raceweight will be dang near 3400 pounds. That's really hard on parts and I realize this is racing, but that's one hefty car!

ODR stuff...it's OUTLAW DRAG RADIAL...make the rules simple and let the guys run. I know everyone wants to see car counts up, but I think this will severely limit guys willing to run LSX stuff.

People that build a dedicated car, can't build it specifically for LSX racing. There are 4 races a year and lots of travel with limited payouts. Those guys also have to fit other rules of local classes to campaign their cars. There is no easy way and I wouldn't wanna be NMCA guys, but I really wanna see this series take off.

I am assuming it is because the 164 MPH pass by LPE was not in competition? I don't think we will ever know the logic behind the decision, no representation on the forums to explain it. Not that they have to, but you would think they would want to. We are all adults (most anyway) and can have a disagreement on a forum without taking it to the n'th level. I guess they can do whatever they choose when they are the only game in town for LS sponsored series of racing events.

To answer your question, the Firehawk serves a good purpose as it sits (Index racing), the Chevy II is going to be my heads up car going forward, or an 8.50 Index car (all it is cert'd for). There is always a race around for this, not so much for the other without getting out of control. Real Street is the only heads up class I can afford to get into. I figured if you don't lobby for something you want, you can't sit back and expect it to happen all on its own. The NMCA has received everything they need from me to make the decision, I believe the problem is I am the only one requesting the change in the rear suspension rule. They have told me 'No' already, but didn't provide any reason. I was just looking for a logical explanation - if there is one.

They mentioned 'preliminary' rules for the 2012 LSX Shooutout Series when starting this thread so I figured I would post what I have already contacted them with and maybe see if the current racers opposed my propsal, or to get reasoning from the NMCA. I've been all over the net, this seems to be the most active forum in regards to the LSX Shootout and the NMCA.

As i read the rules this would not be legal for real street. Mine is basically the same

I would say you are right....from my interpretation of the rules.

Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame

I would say you are right....from my interpretation of the rules.

Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame

There a mim weight so as long as its from the K member forward who cares. when you put the bumper cover on and what not u cant really see

I would say you are right....from my interpretation of the rules.

Stock unaltered frame rails required in front sub frame

but they let a older car run a bolt in front clip?

My car got tech'd and nothing was said about my frame rails other than them checking that my k member was bolted in the stock location and that I had stock style bolt in upper and lower a arms.

just dont want to drive to Florida and have someone freak out on me about it.

The weights are outrageous for Real Street. I also think the door rule in ODR is way over the top.

Let's face it, MPH is horsepower. In Real Street the Prestons have been 162 and LPE has been 164. You add 150 pounds to the Nitrous and Supercharged guys, but don't add any to the Turbo cars. Would it not have been so much simpler to give the turbo guys an 80MM Turbo or if you kept the 76MM rule, why not just take some weight from the Turbo guys??? Prestons raceweight will be dang near 3400 pounds. That's really hard on parts and I realize this is racing, but that's one hefty car!

ODR stuff...it's OUTLAW DRAG RADIAL...make the rules simple and let the guys run. I know everyone wants to see car counts up, but I think this will severely limit guys willing to run LSX stuff.

People that build a dedicated car, can't build it specifically for LSX racing. There are 4 races a year and lots of travel with limited payouts. Those guys also have to fit other rules of local classes to campaign their cars. There is no easy way and I wouldn't wanna be NMCA guys, but I really wanna see this series take off.

I agree and this is the reason I have no built a car for LSX nmca racing they change the rule way to much from year to year...

There a mim weight so as long as its from the K member forward who cares. when you put the bumper cover on and what not u cant really see

I agree.

but they let a older car run a bolt in front clip?
My car got tech'd and nothing was said about my frame rails other than them checking that my k member was bolted in the stock location and that I had stock style bolt in upper and lower a arms.

just dont want to drive to Florida and have someone freak out on me about it.

Yes, how about that, and they allow a Vette, GTO, and new Camaro to fully convert to a TA rear suspension with coil overs.

Maybe I could show up in my duece, wonder if I'd get through Tech, Derek?:cheers:

What are they going to do in your situation turn you away? Then there would only be 4 cars to race the event.

I agree.



Yes, how about that, and they allow a Vette, GTO, and new Camaro to fully convert to a TA rear suspension with coil overs.

Maybe I could show up in my duece, wonder if I'd get through Tech, Derek?:cheers:

What are they going to do in your situation turn you away? Then there would only be 4 cars to race the event.



You sure there will only be 4 cars next year? ;)

You sure there will only be 4 cars next year? ;)

Allright 5.....I'll bet you a Coke they want have a full field in any of the heads up categories in LSX. Going from my previous years of attendance on this one.

but they let a older car run a bolt in front clip?

My car got tech'd and nothing was said about my frame rails other than them checking that my k member was bolted in the stock location and that I had stock style bolt in upper and lower a arms.

just dont want to drive to Florida and have someone freak out on me about it.

I hear ya ... I dont wana drive 15 hrs and cant race.

The weights are outrageous for Real Street. I also think the door rule in ODR is way over the top.

Let's face it, MPH is horsepower. In Real Street the Prestons have been 162 and LPE has been 164. You add 150 pounds to the Nitrous and Supercharged guys, but don't add any to the Turbo cars. Would it not have been so much simpler to give the turbo guys an 80MM Turbo or if you kept the 76MM rule, why not just take some weight from the Turbo guys??? Prestons raceweight will be dang near 3400 pounds. That's really hard on parts and I realize this is racing, but that's one hefty car!

ODR stuff...it's OUTLAW DRAG RADIAL...make the rules simple and let the guys run. I know everyone wants to see car counts up, but I think this will severely limit guys willing to run LSX stuff.

People that build a dedicated car, can't build it specifically for LSX racing. There are 4 races a year and lots of travel with limited payouts. Those guys also have to fit other rules of local classes to campaign their cars. There is no easy way and I wouldn't wanna be NMCA guys, but I really wanna see this series take off.


Hit the nail on the head. I've had/have a rule modification request in with NMCA and we will see how it goes. I had my car built to fit many classes. I hope it works out that I can run drag radial LS events. I've always enjoyed watching the big dogs run but the rules are somewhat restrictive. I won't discuss the rule I requested modification on but after looking at the weights I may request something on that also. 3400 pounds traveling over 200 mph is a bit much. Even if I'm not allowed to play I hope they look at this. I'd hate to see someone hit the wall direct at those speeds and that weight. You want attention brought to the series and bring in high profile cars..... Then let the big dogs eat.

Allright 5.....I'll bet you a Coke they want have a full field in any of the heads up categories in LSX. Going from my previous years of attendance on this one.

:werd: I could not agree more... the turn out is never great.

I'll send 'em an email too, I'd like to see ladder bar + coilover combos allowed for RS, and I am wondering if the oem door line for ODR is a typo.

There a mim weight so as long as its from the K member forward who cares. when you put the bumper cover on and what not u cant really see

ya I'm not sure of that for LSX, I it depends on the tech guy. LSX some know the car count is low and work with you not saying I wasn't 100% for AM.:secret2 And Im not gona protest anyone but there lot of stuff you see. If they what to see the frame rails forward. I know you dont need the bumper support, just weld or bolt on another frame horn set. Let let them hang there. Notch them to go around your bars if need be for what you have. Thats not really a big deal to put something to get the rules.
I ask Dave Laurel about that this year I noticed he cut his top and lower core support out last year in SS and he always had it. And he moved the turbos and ditched them and it was fine.
XS, I know stanton as the upper, roamer has everything lol. trovtos new car has some junk 2x4s in there, no one makes a Kmember for a 5th gen

Please don't rule out the possibility of typo or oversight in rule. They post these preliminary's so you have a chance to help with that.

For those of you with urgent issues with the rules, I would suggest calling them. If you have orders pending or plans to buy stuff...be absolutely sure! Call

For those wanting qualifying for Index, our index qualifying 1st round mirrors what promedia does/did with the NMRA Super Stang class. After much lobbying by their racers, with LSX racer Bobby Barrick being a key proponent, Promedia adopted a reaction time qualifying format for the their Super Stang class. Maybe you can consider requesting that via the official email listed above.


Number and name?

Sorry Keith no pro mods in ODR :corn:

Number and name?

I would start with Trey who posted this link.

Trey Capps
(714) 444-2426 x123

Real Street door rule still there..

Good news is NMCA saved me a bunch of money on my fuel bill not driving 600+ miles to any event.

How about more than stock 6 speeds allowed in RS. That would be nice :)

Sorry, i didnt read, but are the classes still for GM bodied vehicles only?

I like the Real Street weight increases, but.............

Why is the weight break only 20cu.in. difference?

I always thought it should be:

Stock cube LS1, LS6, LS2, LS3 to be the lighter weight with a cap of 390cu.in.

Stroked/bored LS1,6,2,3 and Stock cu. LS7 the heavier class with a cap of 430cu.in.

Any thing over 430cu.in. add 2lbs. per cu.in. with a cap of 480cu.in.

Monday morning bump

I propose the Real Street weight break to be Changed as posted above, the current 420 to 440 isn't enough spread IMO

Sorry Keith no pro mods in ODR :corn:

Easy now. lol

The class will be an all run class with vehicles randomly paired in the first round. In the second round vehicles will be qualified by positive reaction time (r/t) closest to “.000” based on a Pro .500 Tree from first round. “.000” is considered perfect. Any negative r/t (-.001, -1.231, etc.) will be placed at the bottom of the qualifying ladder, the more negative the r/t is, the farther down the ladder the run will be placed. For cases in which identical reaction times are made, qualifying position will be based on a first-come first served: the first occurring r/t will be placed #1, the second occurrence of said r/t will be placed #2, and so on.

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION: Only OEM American automatic transmission allowed. Converter driven planetary transmissions are prohibited. Electric shifters or air shifters are prohibited. Trans Brakes are permitted. One piece, stock type, steel torque converter required. MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS MANUAL TRANSMISSION: Only T56 and TR6060 manual transmissions permitted. Clutchless models prohibited. Any gear change must occur from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, electric, hydraulic, etc. shifters prohibited. All transmissions must use either a). As produced, as supplied (unmodified) OEM gears and/or gear sets for transmission used). Gears and/or gear sets may not be utilized from other models. Transmission used is required to have a gear ratio in all gears as offered by the transmission used. Welding or grafting part of one countershaft to part of another counter shaft will not be accepted.
PERMITTED MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS: Tremec T56- Tremec TR6060-

How about the front frame rail rule in real street

BODY
Forward facing hood scoops prohibited except for OEM type for non-nitrous applications
Forward facing hood scoops permitted for nitrous applications
Cowl induction hoods permitted,
Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, doors, trunk\hatch, and bumpers
Overhangs must be OEM, Wheelbase must be OEM +/- 1”
Replacement fiberglass\carbon panels must maintain OEM appearance and function
Rear spoilers permitted, max length 26”, may not be molded into the body

As i read the rules this would not be legal for real street. Mine is basically the same

BODY
Forward facing hood scoops prohibited except for OEM type for non-nitrous applications
Forward facing hood scoops permitted for nitrous applications
Cowl induction hoods permitted,
Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, doors, trunk\hatch, and bumpers
Overhangs must be OEM, Wheelbase must be OEM +/- 1”
Replacement fiberglass\carbon panels must maintain OEM appearance and function
Rear spoilers permitted, max length 26”, may not be molded into the body

What about the real street rules

Forward facing hood scoops prohibited except for OEM type
Cowl induction hoods permitted, 6” max
Light-weight or fiberglass body pieces limited to hood, doors, trunk/hatch and bumpers
Overhangs must be OEM, Wheelbase must be OEM +/- 1”
Replacement fiberglass/carbon panels must maintain OEM appearance and function
Rear spoilers permitted, max. length 26”, may not be molded into the body

Much better. Thanks trey

Trey you thus are ditching the front frame rule in real street ?

No the last post he made was to the All Motor rules...to match last years rules

Let's face it, MPH is horsepower. In Real Street the Prestons have been 162 and LPE has been 164. You add 150 pounds to the Nitrous and Supercharged guys, but don't add any to the Turbo cars. Would it not have been so much simpler to give the turbo guys an 80MM Turbo or if you kept the 76MM rule, why not just take some weight from the Turbo guys??? Prestons raceweight will be dang near 3400 pounds. That's really hard on parts and I realize this is racing, but that's one hefty car!

I'm confused. So you are saying that LPE has more power than Preston (because of the MPH), but they should allow the 80mm?

Honestly I realize there's no way to make things equal, it's racing after all :)

If the Prestons went 162 at their current weight and now are subject to adding another 150 pounds to their raceweight they will likely lose a tenth and a half or so in ET and probably 3-5 MPH. There was no weight added to the turbo cars this year on the preliminary rules, so you expect Lingenfelter will be even more on their game after basically a testing year last year with the new combo. I kept waiting for the Lingenfelter car to work in the first half on the track. Most of the time it seemed when the put in power down low they had traction issues and when they left soft, the car obviously has the power down track.

Once LPE get the car working you will see their ET's probably in the 8.40's to 8.50's this year.

Again, I know it's not easy and I wouldn't wanna be on the rules committee. I'm like everyone else and wanna see good racing action. Last year was the first year for the full 4 race schedule so it was honestly a building year and most of the racers are going to change combos over the winter so it's a crap shoot.

FYI wasn't trying to be a jerk, just having a hard time following...you raise some good points about the weight. But modifying the weights is also a lot easier and simpler than changing the turbo size limit (especially when you are going up), and using other similar restrictions. I realize in some cases it is asking a lot (if not the impossible), but it is sad that some people would rather not race than modify their car to conform to the rules. Hopefully more people will chose to support the series this year.

I sort of thought Real Street would swap over to 1/8 mile and be more like X275. I would LOVE to see people like Smith and Wayne run their cars at a LSX Race, but I understand their dilema.

Since everyone else is asking for something, I still wanna see a couple of heads up classes for more street oriented cars. Stockish cubes All Motor and Power Adder, hey it's Christmas and we're allowed to say what we want :)

So is everything still GM bodied only? lol

ODR stuff...it's OUTLAW DRAG RADIAL...make the rules simple and let the guys run. I know everyone wants to see car counts up, but I think this will severely limit guys willing to run LSX stuff.

People that build a dedicated car, can't build it specifically for LSX racing. There are 4 races a year and lots of travel with limited payouts. Those guys also have to fit other rules of local classes to campaign their cars. There is no easy way and I wouldn't wanna be NMCA guys, but I really wanna see this series take off.


3400 pounds traveling over 200 mph is a bit much. Even if I'm not allowed to play I hope they look at this. I'd hate to see someone hit the wall direct at those speeds and that weight. You want attention brought to the series and bring in high profile cars..... Then let the big dogs eat.

^ this.

Trey, All Motor Rules, don't forget mid-year changes for added deduct (-100 lbs) on IRS cars and 200 lbs added to aftermarket stick cars (Liberty Five Speeds).
Thanks for the effort you guys put in to this stuff.

I'll send 'em an email too, I'd like to see ladder bar + coilover combos allowed for RS, and I am wondering if the oem door line for ODR is a typo.

Real Street update:

I talked to them today. I was specifically told they do not want older cars in the class because you can't 'bolt-on' parts to make them work. As I alluded to earlier, it is about the sponsors - the people throwing up the money. Good hunch, huh?

Their intent is to attract NEWER cars, that is why they post on this board. Let's face it, you, I and maybe a couple others are probably the only ones even interested in racing an older car at their race, well, maybe Kurt Anderson too whose photo is in every FSC, Chevy High Performance, and GMHiTech (sp?) mag for 2010 and 2011. But, he doesn't want to step up a class that I know of. Seems his car is pretty popular.

Someone is under the assumption the guys racing Real Street are bolt on guys. If it doesn't come out of a box with install instructions you are not a Real Street racer. It is about selling parts, what is popular today, not what was popular 10-15-20-25 years ago. I am guessing Trey and most of the rules committee are younger than I (41).

My crafty fab work on my duece puts me out of the caliber of cars they want at their races. Too old and too much fabrication - the average racer couldn't do it or couldn't afford to have it done I am told. It blows the class out of proportion to allow a ladder bar car to enter simply due to dollars (cost) and the parts used (you know, the ones without part numbers....) I wonder if they have looked at the LPE car up close? :eek2: It is a 'bolt on' car with a 'bolt on' turbo kit and a 'bolt on' 25.2 chassis from the catalog and has part numbers for all the pieces on it - and you all could afford it too.

I also wonder if they have priced a rear TA conversion on a 2010 Camaro or C5, C6 Vette for a drag set up that someone would actually drag race competitively with.

They, and their class sponsors are in agreement they want people to buy late model cars and late model catalog parts to support the current race industry for the New Generation racer - the bolt on guy. It was quoted to me we look at it like "What will the racer by on Monday"? That is the mentality behind the NMCA class, Real Street. Plain and simple.

So be it, at least I got my explanation. Rant over and so is my interest for the class. I am sure NMCA will do fine in 2012. Good luck to all racers

I still wanna see a couple of heads up classes for more street oriented cars. Stockish cubes All Motor and Power Adder, hey it's Christmas and we're allowed to say what we want :)


THIS:D Get some of the 100+ cars in index into it, there right there already.

Yep, some of the rollers I have looked into have been mid 60's GM cars that have been converted to a 9" + ladder bar + coil over setups.

But they are not 100% against older cars, the way I read the rules I could run other old cars, like a '64 Lemans or '55 Chevy, just has to be stock suspended.

I sent an email to Trey and I more pointed out that the LS guys ain't skeered of some ladder bar/coil over setup, some of these guys in RS are going 1.20 60 ft times.

I dont want to sound like I want a class to be made just for MY car. When I posted the rules to import vrs domestic all motor. But I would love to see a class to pull alot of the guys out of index into a slower headup class for cars running 10.5, 9.9 range, and still have a 10.9 quilfy
Like PSJ said a slower street all motor class.

Do you guys think its possible to have class like that. Base weight low enough for stock heads setups and smaller CID 346, or 6L and under. And have it competitive for cars with aftermarket ported heads, and bigger motors. or will the cars get too heavy?

I don't know alot about it and other steups. but somthing like this taking thous rules and getting then lighter, that adding weight for better heads




No power adders
275 DR or 28x10.5 slicks
stock suspension, mufflers, 2 front seats, carpeted, and interior panels. yada yada

Heads(GM).................... Max Displacement Car & Driver Minimum Weight
LS1 LS2 LS6..............................Un-Ported as cast Up to 348c 2850
LS3/L92 heads…………..…………… .Un-Ported as cast Up to 348ci. 2950

LS1, LS2 LS6…................ .Un-Ported as cast Up to 366ci. 2950
LS3,L92 heads……………….………..Un-Ported as cast Up to 366ci. 3050

LS1, LS2, LS6...............…Un-Ported as cast Up to 383ci. 3150
LS3, L92.........................Un-Ported as cast Up to 383ci 3250

LS1, LS2, LS6...............…Un-Ported as cast Up to 427ci 3250
LS3, L92.........................Un-Ported as cast Up to 427ci 3350
LS7 heads…………………………Un-Ported as cast Up to 427ci. 3400

(not sure about bigger motors?.. ERL 500 cube motors street guys are out there? The LSX 454?)
(the LS7 weights are more realistic then the WCF 3500, not sure what to do for the camaro5 and g8 guys? I dont see many of them)


Ported GM heads (exc c5r) add 400
Ported aftermaket heads add 500

(not sure what to do about for slower down ported heads, is 500 across that easy? Thats 50 HP?
TSP will clean up, but I dont know how much weight before you start knocking out cars. But want to keep the weights down, so a stock heads c6 can qualify too)


Intakes

no sheet metal intakes
Any FAST/BBK/ stock style intakes 80/85/90/92/102mm TB
OEM intakes subtract 100 pounds
Cast carb style intake (MAST/edlebrock) add 150
(not sure about the cast holley tunnel ram thing?)

Yep, some of the rollers I have looked into have been mid 60's GM cars that have been converted to a 9" + ladder bar + coil over setups.

But they are not 100% against older cars, the way I read the rules I could run other old cars, like a '64 Lemans or '55 Chevy, just has to be stock suspended.

I sent an email to Trey and I more pointed out that the LS guys ain't skeered of some ladder bar/coil over setup, some of these guys in RS are going 1.20 60 ft times.

That is correct John, you can still run a stock suspended older car. Didn't want my post to sound like you couldn't enter you Calvert/Caltrac suspended 69 leafer into the class, because you absolutely can. I was just surprised to here them say they didn't care to have them. I had to rephrase the question three times during the convo just to make sure it was a consistent answer. It was. They would prefer the class to be NEWer cars to favor the sponsors, that was the message looud and clear. Young bucks.....

While I appreciate your lobbying for your car and I've quietly sat and watched you make numerous post here trying to talk them into allowing your car and why it is needed.....



Do you need a tissue?




J/k!!!




It's well known that the lpe car is WAY outside the budget range of a rs275 car and should be in ODR but if they prefer to stay in this class, so be it. Anyone that watched last year would tell you they are NOT the powerhouse in this class. It's far and away the Preston's(even with the +150 lbs.).




All jokng aside, I hope you still get a car into the class and maybe you should bring your car down to the stamp Ducks race in Feb nd October for the radial races? Theres a leaf spring and a ultimate street class you'd fit into nicely!


Real Street update:

I talked to them today. I was specifically told they do not want older cars in the class because you can't 'bolt-on' parts to make them work. As I alluded to earlier, it is about the sponsors - the people throwing up the money. Good hunch, huh?

Their intent is to attract NEWER cars, that is why they post on this board. Let's face it, you, I and maybe a couple others are probably the only ones even interested in racing an older car at their race, well, maybe Kurt Anderson too whose photo is in every FSC, Chevy High Performance, and GMHiTech (sp?) mag for 2010 and 2011. But, he doesn't want to step up a class that I know of. Seems his car is pretty popular.

Someone is under the assumption the guys racing Real Street are bolt on guys. If it doesn't come out of a box with install instructions you are not a Real Street racer. It is about selling parts, what is popular today, not what was popular 10-15-20-25 years ago. I am guessing Trey and most of the rules committee are younger than I (41).

My crafty fab work on my duece puts me out of the caliber of cars they want at their races. Too old and too much fabrication - the average racer couldn't do it or couldn't afford to have it done I am told. It blows the class out of proportion to allow a ladder bar car to enter simply due to dollars (cost) and the parts used (you know, the ones without part numbers....) I wonder if they have looked at the LPE car up close? :eek2: It is a 'bolt on' car with a 'bolt on' turbo kit and a 'bolt on' 25.2 chassis from the catalog and has part numbers for all the pieces on it - and you all could afford it too.

I also wonder if they have priced a rear TA conversion on a 2010 Camaro or C5, C6 Vette for a drag set up that someone would actually drag race competitively with.

They, and their class sponsors are in agreement they want people to buy late model cars and late model catalog parts to support the current race industry for the New Generation racer - the bolt on guy. It was quoted to me we look at it like "What will the racer by on Monday"? That is the mentality behind the NMCA class, Real Street. Plain and simple.

So be it, at least I got my explanation. Rant over and so is my interest for the class. I am sure NMCA will do fine in 2012. Good luck to all racers

So they are still not allowing NON-gm bodied cars?????

Rules look fine to me, I dont see what all you girls are crying about. :jest:

I sort of thought Real Street would swap over to 1/8 mile and be more like X275. I would LOVE to see people like Smith and Wayne run their cars at a LSX Race, but I understand their dilema.

I believe the NMCA already has a class similar to that, just not part of the LSX series. Smith and Wayne had their chance at the LS Fest...maybe this year again...we'll see.


Since everyone else is asking for something, I still wanna see a couple of heads up classes for more street oriented cars. Stockish cubes All Motor and Power Adder, hey it's Christmas and we're allowed to say what we want :)

Seems like a lot of people are asking for this, and it is probably something worth looking into.

I think adding weight is a wise move on the part of NMCA. Some of their oldest most successful classes are now in the low 8's but started in the 10's. RS in just one year was on a trajectory to hit 8.3's... Without strong car count. That a few tenths off Xtreme Street, which is a highly popular and well attended class of theirs.

Let's get the car counts so that eliminations go more than two rounds. And let's be honest, sometimes a class like that will go an extra round because of the guys that have jumped in just to get the quarter final money.

I hope some of the OEM's and shops out there that are interested in some of the classes look at opportunities to partner with returning racers like Tim99, Paul Falcon, Joe Honeycutt, etc., these are guys who will try to make all the racers but once in a while need some help getting the same high dollar parts that SAM, LPE, and others buy all the time. I'm really suggesting that some of the engine companies, and cylinder head companies work with these racers... The advertising you get from giving a guy a set of heads is pennies compared to some of the ad buys you guys are doing in the magazines.

/PSJ

I hope some of the OEM's and shops out there that are interested in some of the classes look at opportunities to partner with returning racers like Tim99, Paul Falcon, Joe Honeycutt, etc., these are guys who will try to make all the racers but once in a while need some help getting the same high dollar parts that SAM, LPE, and others buy all the time. I'm really suggesting that some of the engine companies, and cylinder head companies work with these racers... The advertising you get from giving a guy a set of heads is pennies compared to some of the ad buys you guys are doing in the magazines.

/PSJ

So true!


I know Joe H on more than one occasion has helped me and is someone I can call on when in need. I'd give him the shirt off my back (and offered him my Fast XFi box at the LS fest). Sometimes I think what Joe Honeycutt is doing gets downplayed when you see the competition he is up against. It's amazing what he and Amber have accomplished with hard work and dedication to the sport or AM LSx racing.


Paul, while I've only met once, is one of the nicest racers I've ever met in racing and I'd pit next to him anytime.


All three of us are just enthusiast and want to have a place to race heads up. I appreciate the kind words PSJ! We'll be there in RS275 hell or high water in 2012!

So they are still not allowing NON-gm bodied cars?????

In DR, RS, and AM it is still GM in GM.
In Rumble you can have a LS in something else.

I think adding weight is a wise move on the part of NMCA. Some of their oldest most successful classes are now in the low 8's but started in the 10's. RS in just one year was on a trajectory to hit 8.3's... Without strong car count. That a few tenths off Xtreme Street, which is a highly popular and well attended class of theirs.

Let's get the car counts so that eliminations go more than two rounds. And let's be honest, sometimes a class like that will go an extra round because of the guys that have jumped in just to get the quarter final money.

I hope some of the OEM's and shops out there that are interested in some of the classes look at opportunities to partner with returning racers like Tim99, Paul Falcon, Joe Honeycutt, etc., these are guys who will try to make all the racers but once in a while need some help getting the same high dollar parts that SAM, LPE, and others buy all the time. I'm really suggesting that some of the engine companies, and cylinder head companies work with these racers... The advertising you get from giving a guy a set of heads is pennies compared to some of the ad buys you guys are doing in the magazines.

/PSJ

i got plenty of sponsor space on the side of my ride......

Maybe I could show up in my duece, wonder if I'd get through Tech, Derek?:cheers:

You better bring a lot of :chug: to get me to pass it...

As has already been suggested, remember the NMCA/NMRA guys are not trying to think up how to keep all these people out, just trying to keep an even playing field. As for the comment about class sponsors having a say in the class rules, well.....:secret2:

Fromt what I've always heard about adding new classes, there are always tons of ideas but who will pay a consistent purse? Every class needs a sponsor, and even the new Coyote Stock one in NMRA had a lot of work behind it from the racers before it was added.

Derek

I think adding weight is a wise move on the part of NMCA. Some of their oldest most successful classes are now in the low 8's but started in the 10's. RS in just one year was on a trajectory to hit 8.3's... Without strong car count. That a few tenths off Xtreme Street, which is a highly popular and well attended class of theirs.

Let's get the car counts so that eliminations go more than two rounds. And let's be honest, sometimes a class like that will go an extra round because of the guys that have jumped in just to get the quarter final money.

I hope some of the OEM's and shops out there that are interested in some of the classes look at opportunities to partner with returning racers like Tim99, Paul Falcon, Joe Honeycutt, etc., these are guys who will try to make all the racers but once in a while need some help getting the same high dollar parts that SAM, LPE, and others buy all the time. I'm really suggesting that some of the engine companies, and cylinder head companies work with these racers... The advertising you get from giving a guy a set of heads is pennies compared to some of the ad buys you guys are doing in the magazines.

/PSJ

I'm doing my part!!! We are already talking to a few more racers that are of interest and looking to do what we can within reason.:D

Let's get the car counts so that eliminations go more than two rounds. And let's be honest, sometimes a class like that will go an extra round because of the guys that have jumped in just to get the quarter final money.

/PSJ

That is the problem - bottom line is there are FOUR LSX races a year. In the mid atlantic/northeast area you can find a ODR, or x275 race damn near every weekend - with rules that are damn near identical.

If they want car counts to increase the rules need to be consistant to classes that have more than 4 races per year.

NMCA needs to determine if they want these races to showcase the LSX performance or if they want to have the same hand full of people willing to build a car to suit their 4 race a year classes.

I can't speak for the NMCA 275 Radial class, but I was under the impression that LSX Drag Radial was fairly consistent with most local classes. No?

Great job Trey on making the adjustments. Can't wait to race, im already getting cabin fever

Trey, I have not heard back from you on the email that I sent nor have I see any response to my comments (#17) on this post. I just wanted to make sure that you have seen my email and comments concerning the all motor class. Thanks.

That is the problem - bottom line is there are FOUR LSX races a year. In the mid atlantic/northeast area you can find a ODR, or x275 race damn near every weekend - with rules that are damn near identical.

If they want car counts to increase the rules need to be consistent to classes that have more than 4 races per year.

NMCA needs to determine if they want these races to showcase the LSX performance or if they want to have the same hand full of people willing to build a car to suit their 4 race a year classes.

I think it's very safe to assume that they are well aware of the different races out there, and how strong some of the scenes are by city and state, so... they are making informed decisions. They are very familiar with everything from X275 to the RAM Series or Milan Drag Warz. At the same time, they are not structuring any class with minimal rules like the Milan stuff, so at the end of the day, it's a bit different.

ODR they've kept friendly to other related classes, especially after allowing twin 88's and 114's this year.

AM got much lighter this year, I think that was a good and necessary move to get the weights in line with other NA racing.

RS is not X275 1/8th mile, it's just not. It's a restricted class which what amounts to a mid 8 second target ET. I personally don't want to see this series turn RS into X275 because then we don't have this class anymore. LS Fest had SYF which was X275 friendly and look who won it, Brian Black (good job bubba). Also keep in mind that NMCA is not 1/8th mile focused, so don't expect all of their LS heads up classes to change.

------
In summation, we are in the incremental change phase of these classes.

------
As far as adding a slower class goes, I like the idea and have a lot of thoughts on it.

-------
If any racers are looking for help in 2012, send me an email in 2012 and let me know what class you are running and what help you are seeking. I guarantee nothing of course but I'll try where I can to link racers to OEM's. If you have never raced at an LSX race please don't contact me ask me next year.

Trey, I have not heard back from you on the email that I sent nor have I see any response to my comments (#17) on this post. I just wanted to make sure that you have seen my email and comments concerning the all motor class. Thanks.

I know the NMCA guys especially Trey got a ton of emails and phone calls this week, I think he's digging through stuff.

I know the NMCA guys especially Trey got a ton of emails and phone calls this week, I think he's digging through stuff.

He personally called me back on monday. had a nice 10 min convo about things. So just now waiting on final rules to be posted. and final "wording" to be adjusted.

In DR, RS, and AM it is still GM in GM.
In Rumble you can have a LS in something else.

are they ever going to change this?

Looks like the Chassis shop is finishing up my car and we should start mocking up the new Twin 88 setup next month!

I reviewed the rules, and have to say that with the current set that I am looking forward to the new season.

This year we plan to be at the minimum weight of 3300lbs and still have WORKING headlights, tailights, brake lights, bllinkers, heads up display, etc... I think I may ditch the Nav this year, but who knows.

Loooking forward to the new season and this year I'm coming with an extra turbo!

are they ever going to change this?
It might be that GM/Chevrolet want to see their cars in the heads-up classes. Now I'm only speculating here, but if a sponsor wants it and that's the difference between having a class and not, I can understand the rule.

What heads-up class would you/whoever you're asking for want to run a non-GM body in?

Derek

It might be that GM/Chevrolet want to see their cars in the heads-up classes. Now I'm only speculating here, but if a sponsor wants it and that's the difference between having a class and not, I can understand the rule.

What heads-up class would you/whoever you're asking for want to run a non-GM body in?

Derek

I sent you a PM in more depth, but ill answer the direct question here.

Real Street, the rules are VERY VERY similar to a local class that we hoping to tinker around in this year coming up. No, i dont have a huge budget, or would i even come close to competing with any of these teams that have responded in this thread, or the other, cant even gaurantee id make the farther away races, or more then one this year even, however, the option would be nice.

Getting drug down the track doesnt bother me :)

Sorry, carry on :)

If any racers are looking for help in 2012, send me an email in 2012 and let me know what class you are running and what help you are seeking. I guarantee nothing of course but I'll try where I can to link racers to OEM's. If you have never raced at an LSX race please don't contact me ask me next year.


How do we contact you?
could not send you a pm?

Please Change Qualifying for Rumble it is just wrong to have first round eliminations as first round qualifying. Even if you don't pair the cars till second round. Makes no sense.

I agree.

So they are still not allowing NON-gm bodied cars?????

No problem here.

hey brian email me at john@motorsports-media.com along with some comments about your plans and specifically where you could use some help with your program

Attached is the link to the 2012 LSX Challenge Preliminary rules for review. Please look them over and submit any suggestions to NMCArules@promediapub.com by December 23, 2011

http://www.nmcadigital.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14679

When will the final rules be posted?

Any updates on the rules for 2012?

My guess it will be the same rules with weight added like they posted!

hey brian email me at john@motorsports-media.com along with some comments about your plans and specifically where you could use some help with your program

sent you a email with my comments. thanks for anything(even if nothing)

Just received a press release from NMCA.

Final rules are up on the rules page

http://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet-performance-lsx-challenge-series-lsx-shootout/1505909-2012-chevrolet-performance-lsx-challenge-series-rules-final.html

Bolts in stock location. All we did was cut the rad support out and frame rails back 6in and made it out of tube.

Mine is the exact same way.

Mine is the exact same way.

Suspension Front: Aftermarket bolt-on replacement front K-members are allowed (if front shocks bolt to K-member then they must be in factory location). For 1974 and earlier model years, OEM strut tower/shock tower may be removed in lieu of installing/using commercially available suspension kit. (IE Heidt, Fat Man, Alston, Smith Racecraft etc) with a 50 pound weight adder. Stock front frame rail required. Front frame rails may be modified or removed 10in forward of the OEM K-member attachment point.

:)

Front frame rails may be modified or removed 10in forward of the OEM K-member attachment point.
:)

That's clear enough. Thanks

Suspension Front: Aftermarket bolt-on replacement front K-members are allowed (if front shocks bolt to K-member then they must be in factory location). For 1974 and earlier model years, OEM strut tower/shock tower may be removed in lieu of installing/using commercially available suspension kit. (IE Heidt, Fat Man, Alston, Smith Racecraft etc) with a 50 pound weight adder. Stock front frame rail required. Front frame rails may be modified or removed 10in forward of the OEM K-member attachment point.

:)

Is that the exact distance to the front core support? I think I have at least a foot if not more from my k member to where the chromoly attaches! Thanks!

Is that the exact distance to the front core support? I think I have at least a foot if not more from my k member to where the chromoly attaches! Thanks!
I was measuring that last night and it is well before the radiator core support area