6 seconds with a stock crank
12-19-2011, 12:08 AM
#1
6 seconds with a stock crank this should generate some noise. i have a 245" swingarm dragster that is tagged for 6.00. i have a stock bore ls2 block, a set of wiesco -11cc 4.005 pistons (for stock stroke), a set of k1 h-beam rods with arp2000 bolts, 317 heads, dm performance main girdle, arp head and main studs, and some stock manifolds (non egr). i need to make 1000 rwhp to get into the 6's. i should wiegh 1650-1700 lbs. i want to try this with a stock crank. the block will be filled, and possibly the heads filled too. i will run on methanol to keep it cool. i have not decided on a fuel system yet, but i am leaning towards a blow thru carb with a fast xim box to control the stock truck coils. i want do do this with a single turbo. my question is, is there a difference in strength between a ls2 (gundrilled) crank, and a lq4 (solid) crank? also out of any ls crank, which one will take the least amount of wieght to balance, and is it a big deal if it has been turned .010 or .020 on the mains or rods? i have an ls2 crank that needs turned probably .020 on just the mains, but if the solid crank is better for my application, then i will find one. oh and how big a deal is it to swap reluctor wheels. i want 58x. thanks for reading my long post, and bring on the stock crank haters.lol!
12-19-2011, 12:31 AM
#2
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It has always been mentioned that the stock crank can take 1000whp. I have never heard that it was LS2 vs. LQ4 though. Hell, this is the first time I have heard that the LS2 crank was gun drilled and the LQ4 was solid.
Just from a structural stand point... I was always taught that a hollow bar is stronger than a solid bar. Don't know if that applies here though.
Just from a structural stand point... I was always taught that a hollow bar is stronger than a solid bar. Don't know if that applies here though.
12-19-2011, 07:52 AM
#4
the only crank failures that i have found, have been from centrifical superchargers, but that is not limited to stock cranks. i have seen other brand forged cranks break. my big concern is, if i shoud worry about finding one that is std. std. or will it matter if it has been turned under. i found a truck crank, that has been turned .010 .010 with a 58x wheel on it, for cheap. i am just worried about have to use thicker brgs. if it will have any affect on it. i know the stock cranks will move around at that kind of hp, and will wear brgs. faster. my plan is to tear it down every 50-75 passes and check eveything. with the main girdle and filled block, everything should stay put.
12-19-2011, 09:51 AM
#6
i am on the fence about the heads. my theory is that a stock casting is only weak because of the deck thickness. i was pondering melting down another head and filling the 317's with the same alluminum that they are cast from. if it does not ruin them in the process, the will be stronger than any other 4 bolt head out there. i realy don't want to chance pushing water out on the tires at 200mph. my other idea is to weld up the decks and run water through the heads with no possabillity of water getting out past the head gasket.
12-19-2011, 11:15 AM
#7
i am on the fence about the heads. my theory is that a stock casting is only weak because of the deck thickness. i was pondering melting down another head and filling the 317's with the same alluminum that they are cast from. if it does not ruin them in the process, the will be stronger than any other 4 bolt head out there. i realy don't want to chance pushing water out on the tires at 200mph. my other idea is to weld up the decks and run water through the heads with no possabillity of water getting out past the head gasket.
I bet a properly balanced stock crank could run a 6 sec 1/4 mile. Don't know how many times, but if you plan to tear it down every 50 or so runs why not find out how much it will take???
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12-19-2011, 11:19 AM
#8
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imo you are overthinking this. if a stock motor can handle 550-600rwhp a mildly built motor on methanol will do 1k pretty easily. i had a 408'' turbo windsor based motor in my mustang that did 840rwhp on 92 octane pumpgas. i would apply the K.I.S.S. method on this and let it eat!
12-19-2011, 12:02 PM
#9
i know that i am overthinking, but i just don't want to lift the heads. i am getting ready to start putting ths thing together, and just trying to gather some info. what i really want to know is if i should shy away from a turned crank. my reason for using a stock crank, is becuase of the alluminum block. i am using the ls2 block to keep wieght down. if i was to use an iron block i would go forged crank and turn up the boost and make 1600hp. all i need is 1000 rwhp, and i think i can accomplish my goal for not alot of money. i will be starting a build thread on this and my 65 elcamino soon. the elky is getting ready for some 10 sec. passes with a l92 headed lq4. it is pretty cool!
12-20-2011, 11:59 AM
#11
from what i have gathered, a stock ls crank and a ls2 block are good for about the same power. i know people have pushed the ls2 block farther, but i am not doing the erl treatment to it. an alluminum block will give way before an iron bock will. it may not fail, but the cylinders will distort, and the super thin liners will crack. why would i waste money on a forged crank to put in a block that is only good for the power capabilites of a nodular crank. hope that answers your question.
12-20-2011, 12:15 PM
#12
Hmmm I was unaware that the LS2 blocks were suspect at 1000hp. A lot of folks have built stout forged aluminum motors. Maybe not 1000hp though......
But if you are gonna fill the waterjacket in the block then I don't think you have much to worry about. I'd pin the mains and get the forged crank if I was unsure about the stock one.
But if you are gonna fill the waterjacket in the block then I don't think you have much to worry about. I'd pin the mains and get the forged crank if I was unsure about the stock one.
12-20-2011, 01:02 PM
#14
i know that, but i am just trying to take advantage of having i light car. 1000rwhp will get me where i want to be, and shoulde be fairly reliable. i am also trying to use the parts i have, and not spend a ton more money. i already have about 20 grand in the car. not to mention the other 15 grand in my el camino. i want to race the dragster this year, and the only way thats going to happen is if i watch my budget. thanks for all the in put.
12-20-2011, 01:32 PM
#15
Get the LS2 block built professionally. It will save you time and headache. Ditch the 317 heads if you are going to try to make 1000 rwhp. You are asking for problems and heartache with that one. You will spend more money in trying to keep the heads down plus they will be a bottle neck. Many people have used them to great success but I think once you start trying to reach a 4 digit number that thought of using 317's shouldn't even be in your mind.
Get a thick deck head so you can solve that issue. With the crank thing, you are light enough to not cause too many issues such as flex and walking but if you are qusetioning it, you just need to put a forged one in there.
Get a thick deck head so you can solve that issue. With the crank thing, you are light enough to not cause too many issues such as flex and walking but if you are qusetioning it, you just need to put a forged one in there.
12-20-2011, 01:58 PM
#16
i know you all mean well, but i am not questioning the reliability of the stock crank. i was wondering about a turned stock crank. i know that taking .020 off a crank has little affect on its strength, my question is how well the thicker bearings will last. as for the heads, the 317's are what i have. and from what i can tell, there are more people that speculate about the thin deck heads, than people that actually experienced them. if my tune is good, i should be ok.
12-20-2011, 04:56 PM
#17
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i am on the fence about the heads. my theory is that a stock casting is only weak because of the deck thickness. i was pondering melting down another head and filling the 317's with the same alluminum that they are cast from. if it does not ruin them in the process, the will be stronger than any other 4 bolt head out there. i realy don't want to chance pushing water out on the tires at 200mph. my other idea is to weld up the decks and run water through the heads with no possabillity of water getting out past the head gasket.
this works well
personally, if your going to run methanol, knock out all the whelch plugs in the block to allow the heat to dissapate quicker
12-20-2011, 04:58 PM
#18
TECH Apprentice
i know you all mean well, but i am not questioning the reliability of the stock crank. i was wondering about a turned stock crank. i know that taking .020 off a crank has little affect on its strength, my question is how well the thicker bearings will last. as for the heads, the 317's are what i have. and from what i can tell, there are more people that speculate about the thin deck heads, than people that actually experienced them. if my tune is good, i should be ok.
it was undersize .040 Big Ends and .010 mains
that sedan went 7.7 @ 186 @ 2950 lbs
379 ttsbc
soo yes, ground crank will work if prepped correctly.
12-20-2011, 05:35 PM
#19
i know you all mean well, but i am not questioning the reliability of the stock crank. i was wondering about a turned stock crank. i know that taking .020 off a crank has little affect on its strength, my question is how well the thicker bearings will last. as for the heads, the 317's are what i have. and from what i can tell, there are more people that speculate about the thin deck heads, than people that actually experienced them. if my tune is good, i should be ok.
There have been many people who have used the 317 heads and not lifted them but the boost level you are going to need to see the 4 digit mark will lift them no matter how good the tune is.
Just for an example there was one of the guys here that used them on a 408 and put 24 psi to them and only saw 880rwhp with them on e85. So you are going to try to use 364 cu in and 317 heads to get 1000 hp, I don't think so. You will need alot of boost and a good head to flow the air. A good turbo cam to compliment the setup and the list goes on.
Stop trying to invent the wheel. Alot of guys ran the gamut of what you will need to run X amount of hp at Y weight to run Z in the quarter. just search around you will find your answer.
12-20-2011, 11:37 PM
#20
whats up crashly? we spoke on a thread i had earlier this year. you are the expert at getting high powered light cars to go. i have been told, by a guy that runs a dragster similar to mine, that i might be to light and run the risk of tire shake. what do you think. btw, he runs a big cube iron big block. my engine alone should be a few hundred pounds lighter. not sure what that is in kilos lol. what do you think about filling the heads. very seldom will i ever have to make a back to back pass. everyone thinks that stock heads are so weak, but if the jackets were filled, i think they would be stronger than a .75" deck head. if they had bigger valves and were ported, i don't think they would be that bad. they could easily be upgraded later.
Last edited by elkydragger; 12-20-2011 at 11:47 PM. Reason: spelling