GormanRacingZ28

can i run a small pill on a completly stock camaro and be competive also first time using nitrous i am willing and hoping for some advice tune fuel , spark, plug heat range, also can i get away with stockfuel pump and wondering about tune

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

search is your friend....
but in a nutshell..


Yes.. Many people run a 100 shot, and even bigger, 150 is typically about the safe limit for the stock bottom end...some people push it with no problems

compared to what?


for a 100 shot, -4* to -6*
Rule of thumb is -2* per 50hp
but remember, your true 100 rwhp shot is more like a 125 at the flywheel
so I like to do 2 per 50 and then add an extra 2 for good measure

fuel can be pump gas...but it never hurts if you want to add some race gas in the tank before you spray
also, I personally dont like to pull from the banjo fitting on the fuel rail...
if you pump is borderline, you will have enough fuel to one side of the engine and the other side will be starving

the stock fuel pump is really not made to do much more than about 450 RWHP total... but people do it...I highly suggest a fuel pump upgrade.

Spark plugs need to be swapped out to a non protruded tip plug...and preferrably a heat range colder than what you are already using
so if stock is a tr55, go to a br6efs
stickies have some actual part #'s you can tell an auto parts store

also can i get away with stock fuel pump and wondering about tune[/QUOTE]

on a wet shot you really dont need to do a tune other than the spark removal

on a dry shot(not recommended for a first timer) you have to do a fuel retune and its a considerable amount of tuning required along with knowing a few tricks to make the pcm work well with the setup

98F-1camaro

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. My first kit was an nos dry kit, which i ended up passing onto a buddy. Neither of us had experience with N2o before this. No tuning was required. The MAF took care of everything. All the kit does is trick the MAF into thinking its cold as hell outside and it has the comp up the fuel supply (very simply put lol) This was a 125hp shot.

I chose this kit since there was no messing around with fuel jets and no chance of anything puddling in the intake waiting to go boom. I did lots of reading on the boards at the time and chose it since it was pretty safe. The only issue you can run into is having too big of a shot and not being able to keep up with the fuel demands.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

"No Tuning Required" is asking for problems...

I'm glad that it worked out for you and your buddy.

But when the MAF fails....BOOM
not only that...
but the MAF Curve is not very good for a completely showroom stock setup...and as soon as you start modding your car it all goes to hell very quickly and needs to have a new tune put into it.

doing a 100shot with no timing removed is also asking for issues...you will shorten the life of the motor from having too much timing which creates heat and pressure that will eventually kill a motor

I tune Engines, and I have tuned several manufacturers "dry kit that requires no additional tuning if you spray it before the MAF.
every single one I do requires some MAF adjustment to be truly safe.

and to top it off... asking the stock injectors to do more than motor only, is bad...
they cant really do much more than 400hp.
and a 100 shot puts you at the edge of what fuel they can add on a stock vehicle.
once you run out of injector, you will go lean, you will burn a valve/destroy a piston
and on the chance that you have the bigger 28lb injectors, you can get a little more out of it..

again...
I'm glad it worked for you....but it is not recommended for a newcomer to start with a dry kit on an untuned unchecked vehicle



I am not trying to talk you out of a Dry shot...but I want you to know the Failure points so you can make an informed decision. what works for once person, does not necessarily work for everybody


and either way you go...a non protruded tip spark plug is needed

karpetcm

iTrader: (2)

Ive done a dry system on mine and have to say im very happy with it. I know many people do not tune for a dry system and just run it expecting the MAF to do the work. Even with my FIRST tune i had with the nitrous on 75 shot i was still running lean but never noticed anything and the hit was strong on the nitrous. Once i put on a A/F gauge and looked at the readings i was shocked as to how lean i was and immediatly pulled the computer back out and sent it out again to get it retuned.

Now on a 125 shot my A/F is reading just fine. Also with nitrous its hard to get the tune right on a mail order and probably highly recommended to put it on the dyno and get it tuned that way to play it safe. I was lucky that Steve is a great tuner and excellent at getting back to you. In the end if your gonna put nitrous on the car make sure you have plugs, good tune and dont go overboard with the shot if you havent upgraded your fuel system. In the future ill go with 42lb injectors and Racetronix Fuel pump and go to 175-200 shot but for now i know better and even at 125 shot dry im mroe then likely maxing the injectors out as it is.

98F-1camaro

I def agree with your other tips for the guy. I did forget to mention my car is a 98 and came stock with the bigger injectors (28lbs). and yea, get the right spark plugs.

To be fair, I am NOT an engine tuner and my experience came back in 00 when there was prob a lot less knowledge than now and one of the only ways to get your car tuned was to send your pcm out to Ed Wright lol.

I've been out of the game for almost 8 years now since my engine let go (not form n2o, it was a poor H/C build) and I'm sure I'm behind the times as far as what was assumed then, and whats been proven since.

EDIT: meant in response to soundengineer

karpetcm

iTrader: (2)

Was the 2001-2002's with the 28lb injectors and the years before 98-00 was 26lbs. Not sure i thought thats how they were.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

This is exactly the example I was talking about...



there are benefits and disadvantages to wet and dry systems as well...

I personally prefer a dry system, but its a lot harder to set it up correctly and you need some good knowledge and proper tuning to go with it...
I usually dont suggest a dry system to people unless they are comfortable with doing a little tuning themselves and own their own tuning software and a wideband.

its typically(not always) easier and safer to do a wet shot...
usually you get a kit that already has a matched set of jets to do what you want. they are close enough to be safe on most systems with no changes other than timing...they often can be a tad bit on the rich side..but not so far as to be dangerous. its usually safe to be just a hair rich and sacrifice a little power than to be too lean and damage something from heat and detonation

98F-1camaro

I forget exactly when they changed, but I know my 98 came with the 28's and my buddies 00 had the 26's.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I couldnt tell you when they changed down to the 26# originally..I think the 99's were the first to get it..LOL
but I know that my 2000 Camaro had 26#
my 2001 Camaro that I have now, came with 28#
and the injectors and the Fuel pump were the first things I changed
87% duty cycle stock after some Tuning with a dyno and a Wideband is no good.

dannyz

For a dry shot, you should give nitrous outlet a call. They offer their "halo" spray bar which, when it first came out, sounded like one of the best ways to go. I have not heard much about it though in the past year or so.

Droptopws6

iTrader: (13)

Soundengineer, Do you just pull 2-4 degrees from the main spark table?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

there are many ways to do it...
you can pull it out in the High and Low Spark tables,

but I prefer on a 2 wire IAT to wire in a relay and a resistor and do it in the IAT tables, on a 3 wire IAT you do it with a voltage regulator instead of a resistor...

trans665

i thought the knock sensors pull timing on the engine??
i was told that anything over a 100 shot wet shot tohave the car tuned, but 100 and under the engine takes care of it,
remember im a nube to nitrous, so be nice..lol

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

if you let the knock sensors "take care of it"
you will have a broken engine

the knock sensor are no where fast enough to protect against a nitrous detonation..
by the time the knock sensors take care of it.. .its too late.

timing needs to be removed...period

2* per 50 HP, and I like to add an additonal 2* per stage to start...
effectively
50 = 4*
100 = 6*
150 = 8*
200 = 10*
and you get the picture...