Oil pump seal to block
12-22-2011, 11:24 AM
#1
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Oil pump seal to block Hey Guys, I've installed a double rollmaster chain and I have to use the spacers, do I just bolt the pump to the block with spacers provided or do I have to use some sort of gasket sealer between the spacers, oil pump and block?? And do I just bolt the pump right up or there any adjustments for the pump ???
12-22-2011, 04:15 PM
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You shouldn't have to use any sealer. But you do need to shim the pump... To make sure it is centered. I use .003 and .002 feeler gauges to shim the pumps that I do. Hope this helps.
12-22-2011, 05:17 PM
#4
You dont need any sealer, Just put the spacers in and thats it. Not sure what 99ls1 means by shimming,He may be referring to what is common practice of removing the front plate of the oil pump, and use some feeler gauges to center the pump gerotor to the main housing, so it is centered,(equal distance on both sides, then tighten down the oil pump mounting bolts, and put the front cover back on. and your good to go. make sure you use the correct O-ring and put some assembly lube, or oil on it before installing the pick-up tube.
I have a melling pump and the double chain from rollmaster my self,,, get ready, I had to do a ton of grinding to the inside of my front cover to get the thing to fit.
I have a melling pump and the double chain from rollmaster my self,,, get ready, I had to do a ton of grinding to the inside of my front cover to get the thing to fit.
12-22-2011, 07:38 PM
#5
It will leak if you don't seal it.
I use pumps that are cut for a o-ring seal for this reason. Alighning the pump is also a must. You need to center the gears to the crank then the housing to the gears. Just centering the housing to the crank dosn't cut it.
Car Shop Inc has a kit they sell to do this.
Tim
I use pumps that are cut for a o-ring seal for this reason. Alighning the pump is also a must. You need to center the gears to the crank then the housing to the gears. Just centering the housing to the crank dosn't cut it.
Car Shop Inc has a kit they sell to do this.
Tim
12-22-2011, 08:43 PM
#6
Stock pumps, as well as melling pumps are not "cut" gm manual says nothing about using any sealer. Have no idea how you could center a splined gear on its matching shaft. First I ever heard of this..however an o ring sealed pump would be a terrific idea and if I knew of one I would run it.
12-22-2011, 10:22 PM
#7
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Hey Guys Thanks, I do have a mellings pump and a rollmaster chain and I defiantly had to do my share of grinding inside the timing cover for everything to fit right, I installed the pump and shimmed the gear to housing before torquing it down, thanks again.
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12-23-2011, 06:32 AM
#11
A leak is a leak.
Call Tim at the car shop and ask him about his kit. Centering the crank to the rotors to the housing is possible and very easy to do. Just have to have the right feeler gauges and process.
Melling two years ago told me centering the pump was not needed. Well they were wrong.
If anything a thin layer of anarobic sealer would be a good thing.
The GM manual was wrote when??? Some things have changed since then.
Tim
Call Tim at the car shop and ask him about his kit. Centering the crank to the rotors to the housing is possible and very easy to do. Just have to have the right feeler gauges and process.
Melling two years ago told me centering the pump was not needed. Well they were wrong.
If anything a thin layer of anarobic sealer would be a good thing.
The GM manual was wrote when??? Some things have changed since then.
Tim
12-23-2011, 07:30 AM
#12
A leak is a leak.
Call Tim at the car shop and ask him about his kit. Centering the crank to the rotors to the housing is possible and very easy to do. Just have to have the right feeler gauges and process.
Melling two years ago told me centering the pump was not needed. Well they were wrong.
If anything a thin layer of anarobic sealer would be a good thing.
The GM manual was wrote when??? Some things have changed since then.
Tim
Call Tim at the car shop and ask him about his kit. Centering the crank to the rotors to the housing is possible and very easy to do. Just have to have the right feeler gauges and process.
Melling two years ago told me centering the pump was not needed. Well they were wrong.
If anything a thin layer of anarobic sealer would be a good thing.
The GM manual was wrote when??? Some things have changed since then.
Tim
you need to stop while your ahead. GM never sealed them, and do they leak? who knows, and who cares. if it leaks, awesome. they still hold good oil pressure over the life of the engine. I have never seen anyone tear an engine down due to low oil pressure caused by a leaking oil pump to block surface.
find some legitimate proof stating it should be sealed prior to installation, until then, your posts hold no merit in this thread.
12-23-2011, 07:44 AM
#13
Vern schumann (google him) is who does my pumps. The time he spent on the dyno and pump stand he found a leak there and sealing it increased the effiency of the pump. A few little things add up quick.
He has found quite a few other things that allowed engines that were not surviving at the texas mile or in NHRA SS to now have no issues. Prior to this guys were going dry sump.
Again TIm at the car shop sells all of this stuff and has all the details straight from Vern.
Call him you may learn something not in the GM manual.
Tim
He has found quite a few other things that allowed engines that were not surviving at the texas mile or in NHRA SS to now have no issues. Prior to this guys were going dry sump.
Again TIm at the car shop sells all of this stuff and has all the details straight from Vern.
Call him you may learn something not in the GM manual.
Tim
12-23-2011, 08:13 AM
#14
googled him, came up with this.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...echnology.aspx
says nothing about leaking between the block and pump being a bad thing unless it causes low oil pressure at idle. the article also states that most engines only need about 10psi/1000RPM (common rule of thumb).
so Vern Schumann just reinforced my earlier statement that there is no real reason to seal your oil pump unless that particular leak (that occurs in EVERY LS engine from the factory) is causing low oil pressure.
more than likely, your low oil pressure woes will be caused by excessive bearing clearance before the a leak between the block and pump does. obviously, the stock pump, in stock unmodified form has enough ***** to overcome this leak and provide enough pressure and volume to feed the engine adequately. (and in most cases, according to Vern Schumann, 4 times more than adequate given the "10 psi/1000RPM" rule and that most LS engines in good condition maintain 40 PSI@ idle.)
now I ask you, do the benefits outweigh the risk? is the extra .5 PSI at idle worth the risk of sending a small bit of sealer thru your filter or other small oil passage, and potentially blocking it? not to me.....I'll continue NOT sealing my oil pumps.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...echnology.aspx
says nothing about leaking between the block and pump being a bad thing unless it causes low oil pressure at idle. the article also states that most engines only need about 10psi/1000RPM (common rule of thumb).
so Vern Schumann just reinforced my earlier statement that there is no real reason to seal your oil pump unless that particular leak (that occurs in EVERY LS engine from the factory) is causing low oil pressure.
more than likely, your low oil pressure woes will be caused by excessive bearing clearance before the a leak between the block and pump does. obviously, the stock pump, in stock unmodified form has enough ***** to overcome this leak and provide enough pressure and volume to feed the engine adequately. (and in most cases, according to Vern Schumann, 4 times more than adequate given the "10 psi/1000RPM" rule and that most LS engines in good condition maintain 40 PSI@ idle.)
now I ask you, do the benefits outweigh the risk? is the extra .5 PSI at idle worth the risk of sending a small bit of sealer thru your filter or other small oil passage, and potentially blocking it? not to me.....I'll continue NOT sealing my oil pumps.
12-23-2011, 08:15 AM
#15
Also, he also stated that the most common type of leak on the front mounted pumps is between the shitty stock cover and the pump housing itself at high RPM's, which is why melling and other aftermarket oil pump manufacturers use stronger pump covers to prevent that leak.
12-23-2011, 09:02 AM
#17
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Yes I did notice the spacers can go on wrong if not paying attention, everything went together great, no sealer used here :-) , I'm surprised nobody came out with a custom timing cover for the double row chain setup.
12-23-2011, 11:25 AM
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heres how I shimmed my pump. hope this picture helps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/IMG_0382.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/IMG_0382.jpg