New race cam - 415RWHP on stock heads and stock exhaust-help with Atap & other stuff
03-16-2004, 11:44 PM
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New race cam - 415RWHP on stock heads and stock exhaust-help with Atap & other stuff Hi everyone:
Haven't posted here much, mostly because I didn't have much to contribute. Most people here know a great deal and this site is a great resource!
I have a 2003 Z06 that I just installed a cam into. The cam specs are:
.588 .591 228/232 113+2
I have a mail order tune from Ron Zimmer out in CA and stock heads. The car has Cyclone air induction, TPIS long tubes, RT high flow cats, and stock exhaust. The other parts we changed inside the engine were dual Comp springs, adjustable 1.75:1 roller rockers, and longer pushrods. I also installed a Katech ported and blueprinted oil pump and SLP double roller timing chain at the same time. Engine runs great, very strong, about 415RWHP (click for larger view):
Not sure what is causing that dip at about 6,000 RPM, though. I did some Autotap on the street and it seems to have almost no knock retard even under WOT. The A/F ratio looks like it hovers around 12.5:1 during WOT, which is good (click for larger view):
Any idea what could be causing that slight dip? A similar dip occurs on the torque curve as well.
I'm very happy with this cam swap - a solid 40RWHP gain and the torque curve moves up in the RPM band and is very strong. I specified this for track (road course) use, where the car spends most of its time above 4000 RPM. Should work very well.
I can go out and re-Autotap if that helps - if I do so, what should I look for?
Any other advice you all can give me would be appreciated. I bet with an aftermarket exhaust, I could probably pick up 10, maybe even 15 more at the wheels. Pretty strong for stock heads!
Thank you to everyone.
Haven't posted here much, mostly because I didn't have much to contribute. Most people here know a great deal and this site is a great resource!
I have a 2003 Z06 that I just installed a cam into. The cam specs are:
.588 .591 228/232 113+2
I have a mail order tune from Ron Zimmer out in CA and stock heads. The car has Cyclone air induction, TPIS long tubes, RT high flow cats, and stock exhaust. The other parts we changed inside the engine were dual Comp springs, adjustable 1.75:1 roller rockers, and longer pushrods. I also installed a Katech ported and blueprinted oil pump and SLP double roller timing chain at the same time. Engine runs great, very strong, about 415RWHP (click for larger view):
Not sure what is causing that dip at about 6,000 RPM, though. I did some Autotap on the street and it seems to have almost no knock retard even under WOT. The A/F ratio looks like it hovers around 12.5:1 during WOT, which is good (click for larger view):
Any idea what could be causing that slight dip? A similar dip occurs on the torque curve as well.
I'm very happy with this cam swap - a solid 40RWHP gain and the torque curve moves up in the RPM band and is very strong. I specified this for track (road course) use, where the car spends most of its time above 4000 RPM. Should work very well.
I can go out and re-Autotap if that helps - if I do so, what should I look for?
Any other advice you all can give me would be appreciated. I bet with an aftermarket exhaust, I could probably pick up 10, maybe even 15 more at the wheels. Pretty strong for stock heads!
Thank you to everyone.
03-17-2004, 01:46 AM
#5
Mail order tune.. Don't really like them..
The Dip in HP could be caused by 2 things. #1 did your Mail order rune people raise the Catalitic Over Temp Tables? If they are set at the stock 750 Deg F and not the 1250 Deg, the computer thinks your about to burn up a Cat and dumps fuel, even if your A/F is okay. Tell them to check that...
#2 reason. Your volumemetric Effencey tables primary and secondary, may have spikes in the range of MAP 15 through MAP 25. The stock program has this spike, to allow the motor to run a little leaner or richer at idle. Problem is this effects, (at least it did for me) a spike or drop of RWHP and RWTQ around 5500 to 6200 rpms. I scaled mine out nice and smooth on MAP 15 and 20, and my HP drop at the RPM went away.
Those 2 things for sure and maybe more could cause a drop in HP at that rpm.
Look in my Sig at my dyno Graph. I feel there is more there but It's pretty smooth.
Good Luck.
Clint
The Dip in HP could be caused by 2 things. #1 did your Mail order rune people raise the Catalitic Over Temp Tables? If they are set at the stock 750 Deg F and not the 1250 Deg, the computer thinks your about to burn up a Cat and dumps fuel, even if your A/F is okay. Tell them to check that...
#2 reason. Your volumemetric Effencey tables primary and secondary, may have spikes in the range of MAP 15 through MAP 25. The stock program has this spike, to allow the motor to run a little leaner or richer at idle. Problem is this effects, (at least it did for me) a spike or drop of RWHP and RWTQ around 5500 to 6200 rpms. I scaled mine out nice and smooth on MAP 15 and 20, and my HP drop at the RPM went away.
Those 2 things for sure and maybe more could cause a drop in HP at that rpm.
Look in my Sig at my dyno Graph. I feel there is more there but It's pretty smooth.
Good Luck.
Clint
03-17-2004, 08:36 AM
#6
nice setup. you say stock exhaust, but you have long tube headers. you may wanna change that to "stock cat-back." 
i am very interested in how long your valve springs last with your open tracking. i want a more aggressive cam, but i'm
concerned about the abuse it puts on the valvetrain in the long run. but then again, you have z06 specific light weight
valves, and i don't
so that would definately help longevity since the valvetrain is significantly lighter.
like the others said, i'm no fan of mail-order tune. try to bring your car to the tuner for best results (on a chassis dyno).
if you ever race at pocono, let me know.
i am very interested in how long your valve springs last with your open tracking. i want a more aggressive cam, but i'm
concerned about the abuse it puts on the valvetrain in the long run. but then again, you have z06 specific light weight
valves, and i don't
so that would definately help longevity since the valvetrain is significantly lighter.like the others said, i'm no fan of mail-order tune. try to bring your car to the tuner for best results (on a chassis dyno).
if you ever race at pocono, let me know.
03-17-2004, 09:53 AM
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Thank you everyone. I will have that stuff checked (and maybe just get a local tune - I was hoping to avoid it).
Sorry about the "stock cat back" versus "stock exhaust". I tend to call the cat back the exhaust. I'm not trying to hide anything
The other issue I have is erratic idle. It sometimes surges, it sometimes idles fine, and it sometimes dips down so low in the RPM band that it shuts off. Any cures for this?
As for the valvesprings, they are Comp dual high-RPM springs, and I was told they would last a long time without any trouble. I guess we'll find out! The roller rockers help smooth things out as well, as do the titanium retainers.
Sorry about the "stock cat back" versus "stock exhaust". I tend to call the cat back the exhaust. I'm not trying to hide anything
The other issue I have is erratic idle. It sometimes surges, it sometimes idles fine, and it sometimes dips down so low in the RPM band that it shuts off. Any cures for this?
As for the valvesprings, they are Comp dual high-RPM springs, and I was told they would last a long time without any trouble. I guess we'll find out! The roller rockers help smooth things out as well, as do the titanium retainers.
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03-17-2004, 03:32 PM
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If anyone wants to see some autotap logs, here:
http://www.pfyc.com/m3/cam2.csv
http://www.pfyc.com/m3/cam3.csv
http://www.pfyc.com/m3/cam2.csv
http://www.pfyc.com/m3/cam3.csv
03-17-2004, 09:12 PM
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you may be having some spring issues also...but it is recovering so I doubt it.
Is the lift you mentioned with a 1.7 rocker? if so you are running more lift than you think. Take your cam card lobe lift numbers and multiply them by 1.75
so this would be .605 on the intake and .608 exhaust
The car can stand to be leaned out from 4800-5800 and it would do away with the major dip.
If I am not mistaken the dynopack dyno is and eddy current dyno isn't it? If so you can tune your airfuel closer to 13.2:1 if it works like a Mustang dyno because it will load the car harder than dyno-jet. But I am not really familar with them. (they replace the rear wheels when it is hooked up right?)
Is the lift you mentioned with a 1.7 rocker? if so you are running more lift than you think. Take your cam card lobe lift numbers and multiply them by 1.75
so this would be .605 on the intake and .608 exhaust
The car can stand to be leaned out from 4800-5800 and it would do away with the major dip.
If I am not mistaken the dynopack dyno is and eddy current dyno isn't it? If so you can tune your airfuel closer to 13.2:1 if it works like a Mustang dyno because it will load the car harder than dyno-jet. But I am not really familar with them. (they replace the rear wheels when it is hooked up right?)
03-17-2004, 09:16 PM
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Hi H82BBad:
I'm not sure about it being an eddy current dyno, but yes, they take the rear wheels off and this dyno connects right to the hubs using lug nuts. No playing games with tire sizes and pressures! Your point about the dyno type and loading is a very valid point regarding A/F ratio. I guess I could take it down to a Dynojet for some confirmation. We have one locally as well.
I think the cam specs are actual cam specs and not multiplied like you mentioned, so yes, I believe the lift is even higher in actuality.
I'm not sure about it being an eddy current dyno, but yes, they take the rear wheels off and this dyno connects right to the hubs using lug nuts. No playing games with tire sizes and pressures! Your point about the dyno type and loading is a very valid point regarding A/F ratio. I guess I could take it down to a Dynojet for some confirmation. We have one locally as well.
I think the cam specs are actual cam specs and not multiplied like you mentioned, so yes, I believe the lift is even higher in actuality.
03-17-2004, 09:32 PM
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cool deal. I would get a dyno jet comparrison so you can see how you compare to most as far as numbers go.
We have met before Brian I believe. I posted as BrentB on the corvette forum when I had my 99 red FRC (Formerly from Bowling Green Ky) It seems like you had a frc then also but I may be wrong.
We have met before Brian I believe. I posted as BrentB on the corvette forum when I had my 99 red FRC (Formerly from Bowling Green Ky) It seems like you had a frc then also but I may be wrong.
03-17-2004, 09:35 PM
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Boy, been a long time since I heard "BrentB"!
As far as the HP/TQ numbers go, this dyno is right on with the Dynojets. I had my car on a Dynojet and it was putting out the same exact numbers as on this dyno.
As far as the HP/TQ numbers go, this dyno is right on with the Dynojets. I had my car on a Dynojet and it was putting out the same exact numbers as on this dyno.
03-19-2004, 10:18 AM
#14
mail order tuning Brian,
I had a mail order tune (Ed Wright), and it sucked. Probably contributed to blowing my stock bottom end. Had the car dyno tuned in PA, which improved things, but still had some idle and driveability issues like you mentioned. I finally took the car to Jeff Creech at Carolina Auto Masters, and his is the best tune I have had to-date. Hardly ever surges, never stalls, probably as close to stock as you can get with a cam- TR 224 cam on a 112 LSA in my case.
I GUARANTEE YOU Jeff can improve your idle and driveability, and I would be willing to bet he can find you some more HP, too. Leaner will make more HP for you, and he should be able to take care of that dip in your dyno graph, unless it is a mechanical issue. How much timing are you running?
Not dissing your numbers or anything, but I think there is more in that combination.
Good luck,
Colin Hofheimer
I had a mail order tune (Ed Wright), and it sucked. Probably contributed to blowing my stock bottom end. Had the car dyno tuned in PA, which improved things, but still had some idle and driveability issues like you mentioned. I finally took the car to Jeff Creech at Carolina Auto Masters, and his is the best tune I have had to-date. Hardly ever surges, never stalls, probably as close to stock as you can get with a cam- TR 224 cam on a 112 LSA in my case.
I GUARANTEE YOU Jeff can improve your idle and driveability, and I would be willing to bet he can find you some more HP, too. Leaner will make more HP for you, and he should be able to take care of that dip in your dyno graph, unless it is a mechanical issue. How much timing are you running?
Not dissing your numbers or anything, but I think there is more in that combination.
Good luck,
Colin Hofheimer
03-19-2004, 10:23 AM
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Hey Brian, PFYC customer here 
If you're in Raleigh, NC, you need to get to Carolina Auto Masters (www.carolinaautomasters.com). Jeff Creech at CAM tuned my Z06, both NA and now with a Vortech supercharger.
With a TRAP cold air and long tubes as my only mods, the car made 388hp/375tq to the wheels.
When I installed my Vortech, I was obviously very nervous about tuning it for max power and safety on the stock bottom end. Jeff sent me a very conservative tune so that I could drive the car. As a matter of fact, he was working with me remotely at 11:30pm one evening to be sure I was good to go with the mail order tune. The car performed well with that tune and I drove 5hrs to his shop to have the car dyno tuned.
Even though Jeff had pneumonia (we didn't know it at the time), we worked very late one Friday evening and tuned the car. 544hp/465tq to the wheels with my only mods being a TRAP lower air filter setup, LG long tubes w/x-pipe and cats and the Vortech supercharger. The car drives like stock until boosting and Jeff's tune is extremely safe.
I can ramble on and on about people I know with CAM tuned cars that are extremely happy with the results, but I think you get the idea. Jeff's tuning not only makes power, but he really has a handle on producing results with regard to driveability and street manners, in addition to creating monster HP.
I'm extremely happy with my results, both NA and now blown
If you're in Raleigh, NC, you need to get to Carolina Auto Masters (www.carolinaautomasters.com). Jeff Creech at CAM tuned my Z06, both NA and now with a Vortech supercharger.
With a TRAP cold air and long tubes as my only mods, the car made 388hp/375tq to the wheels.
When I installed my Vortech, I was obviously very nervous about tuning it for max power and safety on the stock bottom end. Jeff sent me a very conservative tune so that I could drive the car. As a matter of fact, he was working with me remotely at 11:30pm one evening to be sure I was good to go with the mail order tune. The car performed well with that tune and I drove 5hrs to his shop to have the car dyno tuned.
Even though Jeff had pneumonia (we didn't know it at the time), we worked very late one Friday evening and tuned the car. 544hp/465tq to the wheels with my only mods being a TRAP lower air filter setup, LG long tubes w/x-pipe and cats and the Vortech supercharger. The car drives like stock until boosting and Jeff's tune is extremely safe.
I can ramble on and on about people I know with CAM tuned cars that are extremely happy with the results, but I think you get the idea. Jeff's tuning not only makes power, but he really has a handle on producing results with regard to driveability and street manners, in addition to creating monster HP.
I'm extremely happy with my results, both NA and now blown