Generation IV External Engine - Various LS7 intakes

Ok im ditching my fast 102 intake as the ports dont match the heads and i want you guys to help out with the deciding on a new intake and or ideas etc.

I want them to all be under hood type intakes.

I'm going to start the thread off with different types of ls7 intakes.

CFE Racing.com
http://www.cferacing.com/images/sbc-manifold/CFE_LS_XR/cfe_ls_xr_1.jpg

Harrop.com.au - not yet released.
http://www.harrop.com.au/images/harrop_hurricane_trolley.jpg

Ozmo engineering
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/398574_10150435017834103_553679102_8518780_8364863 31_n.jpg

Ozmo engineering
http://media.photobucket.com/image/ozmo%20engineering/lpe403/SEMA%202011/85fdb522.jpg
http://www.semashow.com/sites/default/files/images/SEMAShow2011NewProducts/RS7-SR_Intake_Manifold_opt_sm.jpg

wilson manifolds.com
http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/product_images/product-large_image-169.jpg

wilson manifolds.com
http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/product_images/product-large_image-6.jpg

The fix:
Harrop is about to or just has released it's new 58mm ITB set up which is a striaight bolt up to my heads.

http://www.harrop.com.au/prodimages/hurricane_cable_lrg.jpg

http://www.harrop.com.au/prodimages/hurricane_cable_side2.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/198672_139190359501769_112028962217909_241994_7710 065_n.jpg

That last Harrop is the shit.

That last Harrop is the shit.

yep im calling them on monday and putting in my order for it for the ls7 heads im running.
i know someone who just got this for tfs235's so im pretty sure the ls7 style is out now too.

here is the one my friend got for the tfs235's

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/408596_10150558877858410_747993409_10888817_168039 0770_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/406131_10150558879108410_747993409_10888824_509271 647_n.jpg

You know where my vote is ;) . Might want to resize those Kinsler pics....

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w291/lpe403/misc/kinsler1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w291/lpe403/misc/pic-411.jpg

You left out Marcella too! :drool:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w291/lpe403/Project%20Parts/marcella3.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w291/lpe403/marcella2.jpg

Jury is still out on Ozmo but I think its cool. There's a C6 on camaro5, of all places, where they are plugging one of these in place of a FAST.

How much are these intakes? One thing that turned me off from those big sheet metal intakes was a test they did with a carb setup a fast unit and a Wilson unit and the Wilson was the worste one because they didn't wind the engine up high enough to really use the full potential of the wilson. If I was gonna drop big money on a intake I would go ITB. 3200 for a intake that makes 20-30 more whp is not worth it thouh. I would sooner get Mamo to port match my manifold and spend the money I save on new CNC'd heads and make more power.

You're right on the mark for price with the sheet metal - referencing Marcella's pricing about $3500-$3800. ITB? Depends....Jenvey, Harrop, or Kinsler? Kinsler is double that price. Not sure where Jenvey and Harrop are.

New OXMO stuff is in the 4K ballpark.

bought the harrop yesterday for $4950 AUS delivery should be monday.

Holly fuck lol. That's half of what my LSX 454 cost for a intake manifold. That's just nuts. How much power would it need to make for you to feel satisfied with your purchase?

bought the harrop yesterday for $4950 AUS delivery should be monday.

The last one posted with 58mm tbs?

Do you plan to run boxes like the pictures? If so can you do a dyno with and without the boxes?

The last one posted with 58mm tbs?

Do you plan to run boxes like the pictures? If so can you do a dyno with and without the boxes?

Yeah the one from harrop with 58mm itb, but not with boxes to begin with i'll have to fab some up.
Just found this video too of an LS7 from thompson automotive.

there is no specs on if any other mods have been done to the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYO6Tl-aQ_8&feature=player_embedded

Holly fuck lol. That's half of what my LSX 454 cost for a intake manifold. That's just nuts. How much power would it need to make for you to feel satisfied with your purchase?

It's not about that it's the fact that i was dumb enough to buy into the FAST 102 bullshit and their manifold is a piece of shit that doesn't line up correctly.

bought the harrop yesterday for $4950 AUS delivery should be monday.

Thats actually not bad compared to some others :secret2:

Holly fuck lol. That's half of what my LSX 454 cost for a intake manifold. That's just nuts. How much power would it need to make for you to feel satisfied with your purchase?

The issue is how much is a FAST or single plane are holding you back? Hard to justify for sure. After Shawn's time with the Kinsler on my build, even he was amazed in the air this thing inhales.....hence, cam #3 in the works :bang: Obviously cubes and these heads help but this type of intake ALLOWS them to breath.

LPE what size tbs are on your kinsler?

Why not spend the money to have Tony mamo port match and port your FAST if you were trying to get it to line up and breath a little better. Like I love ITB setups I had one on my old talon but even at a whopping 40whp the money spent to get one of these bad boys seems like it could be more wisely spent on other things to make power. Cool factor on a car you want to show off these things are worth every penny but as far as function goes way overpriced for what they do. The kinsler being CF and having all the other intricate parts I could see cause CF shit is always expensive but $5k for basically a well built sheet metal intake with 8 tb's is crazy.

Why not spend the money to have Tony mamo port match and port your FAST if you were trying to get it to line up and breath a little better. Like I love ITB setups I had one on my old talon but even at a whopping 40whp the money spent to get one of these bad boys seems like it could be more wisely spent on other things to make power. Cool factor on a car you want to show off these things are worth every penny but as far as function goes way overpriced for what they do. The kinsler being CF and having all the other intricate parts I could see cause CF shit is always expensive but $5k for basically a well built sheet metal intake with 8 tb's is crazy.

I understand what you are saying but the issue with the FAST is it's a piece of shit, no other words describe how much i now hate FAST. The manifold doesn't line up with stock LS7 ports it wont and never will tony can port them till the cows come home the thing is never going to line up, i ported it all the way to the gasket on the top of the port and it still doesn't line up, and this is on a bench securley bolted to an LS7 head.

Add to this that i can also see 8-10mm of the actual head on the bottom of the port.

Attached is a picture i have drawn for you to see, the red line is where the fast manifold port sits so as you can see at the bottom of the port i can see the head and at the top of the port if you shove your finger inside you have to feel upwards to find the roof of the head port.

This is exactly how it is, if you need an actual picture i'll bolt the fast manifold back onto my bare head and take a picture its exactly like this.

As said in this thread or another i thought maybe i had a bowed bottom shell so i went to the trouble of ordering a brand new lower FAST 102 shell and both the new and the old bolt up to the head ports in this fashion, basically the thing is holding the engine back a hell of alot when the ports are missaligned like this. And as said before anyone out there with a FAST manifold pull it off the car unbolt the runners and just bolt on the lower shell and see how "great" it lines up with yoru ports, cause 2 lower shells of mine both FAST 102 ls7 style do not line up for shit no matter how much you port it, it will not ever line up, you cannot port it past the gaskets.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/335543d1326886166-various-ls7-intakes-ls7head.jpg

As for money spent better on other things do you know of many cars with LS7 heads putting down 620rwhp N/A?
This fast "problem" is like a wrattling screw in your glove box that keeps wrattling around making noise, it basically annoys the shit out of you until you pull over open the glove box and throw it out the window. Thats my problem with the fast, i will happily donate the thing to anyone who wants it for free, or to the trash bin if no one wants it.

I understand what you are saying but the issue with the FAST is it's a piece of shit, no other words describe how much i now hate FAST. The manifold doesn't line up with stock LS7 ports it wont and never will tony can port them till the cows come home the thing is never going to line up, i ported it all the way to the gasket on the top of the port and it still doesn't line up, and this is on a bench securley bolted to an LS7 head.

Add to this that i can also see 8-10mm of the actual head on the bottom of the port.

Attached is a picture i have drawn for you to see, the red line is where the fast manifold port sits so as you can see at the bottom of the port i can see the head and at the top of the port if you shove your finger inside you have to feel upwards to find the roof of the head port.

This is exactly how it is, if you need an actual picture i'll bolt the fast manifold back onto my bare head and take a picture its exactly like this.

As said in this thread or another i thought maybe i had a bowed bottom shell so i went to the trouble of ordering a brand new lower FAST 102 shell and both the new and the old bolt up to the head ports in this fashion, basically the thing is holding the engine back a hell of alot when the ports are missaligned like this. And as said before anyone out there with a FAST manifold pull it off the car unbolt the runners and just bolt on the lower shell and see how "great" it lines up with yoru ports, cause 2 lower shells of mine both FAST 102 ls7 style do not line up for shit no matter how much you port it, it will not ever line up, you cannot port it past the gaskets.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/335543d1326886166-various-ls7-intakes-ls7head.jpg

As for money spent better on other things do you know of many cars with LS7 heads putting down 620rwhp N/A?
This fast "problem" is like a wrattling screw in your glove box that keeps wrattling around making noise, it basically annoys the shit out of you until you pull over open the glove box and throw it out the window. Thats my problem with the fast, i will happily donate the thing to anyone who wants it for free, or to the trash bin if no one wants it.

I have a fast 102 ported by Mamo in an F-body at over 600 to the wheels and this has gotten me interested? I wonder if Tony knows about this or anyone else for that matter, and is this really a issue on these things?? Looks like it could be a huge problem from what your saying! :( Maybe Tony will chime in here.......

I have a fast 102 ported by Mamo in an F-body at over 600 to the wheels and this has gotten me interested? I wonder if Tony knows about this or anyone else for that matter, and is this really a issue on these things?? Looks like it could be a huge problem from what your saying! :(

Like i said i thought i had a bowed bottom shell when i first saw the "problem" so i went to the trouble of buying a whole brand new lower shell from summit racing in the USA shipped all the way to Australia in a box well packed and it had no bow in it and looked identical to the original shell i had that was on the fully essembled fast manifold.

The ports do not align they will not ever align and no matter how much you port the thing it is never going to align unless you 1 remove more material from the head port and then add more material at the top of the head port, basically changing the whole velocity of the heads.

The picture i have posted is exactly how both my lower shells line up to the manifold.

You know how long it takes to pull the manifold off, grab some torx heads or allen keys and unbolt it take a photo post it up here and guaranted it looks as shit as i have said it is.

I was all "PRO" fast manifolds when i started my build, hell look it does make power you are making power im making power but the question is how much low end how much top end how much torque are we missing out on with this very poor design.......THE BLOODY PORTS DONT MATCH thats rule number 1 when building a manifold make the ports line up or as close as possible.

Alrighty i have the specs on the thompson automotive engine dyno, just got off the phone to brian, love his work.

100% stock LS7 heads with only a cam 248/256 115LSA 569/571 lift

engine made 620HP with the standard LS7 manifold
then bolted the harrop ITB up and made 670HP

Using bosch 60lbs injectors long length injectors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYO6Tl-aQ_8&feature=player_embedded

Yeah not lining up is a huge problem but I feel like with mass production there bound to be parts that are machined wrong or something just not right. I know this is gonna sound crazy but after hearing about the excessive cases of core shift and poor quality with the LSX blocks if you have the GMPP LSX ls7 heads still maybe it's the heads that are machined wrong. Not likely I agree but def possible. I was always a firm believer of if it aint broke. I reember I didn't even believe you were making as uch whp as you were when you first posted your dyno graph so you were def doing good man. I mean hell its your car your oney if you got it go for it Im not saying you wasted money but going for big power I would have looked into like MAST heads or something like that first before a intake manifold with the money spent.

my heads are already cnc ported by nathan higgins in australia his car currently runs 7.15 N/A and he ports almost all the v8 supercars teams, in terms of someone who knows what he is doing he is basically the man here in australia when it comes to heads.

I highly doubt the head ports are out, i can understand core shift, and my block along with a few others have been sonic tested here and they are fine 250-300" thickness.

The base of it is the fast "ls7" manifold is shit and guarantee if others with ls7 heads do what i have done and bolt the lower shell on you will see what i see. I dont know about other models ls3 ls1 ls2 etc but for ls7 they certainly dont line up.

my heads are already cnc ported by nathan higgins in australia his car currently runs 7.15 N/A and he ports almost all the v8 supercars teams, in terms of someone who knows what he is doing he is basically the man here in australia when it comes to heads.

I highly doubt the head ports are out, i can understand core shift, and my block along with a few others have been sonic tested here and they are fine 250-300" thickness.

The base of it is the fast "ls7" manifold is shit and guarantee if others with ls7 heads do what i have done and bolt the lower shell on you will see what i see. I dont know about other models ls3 ls1 ls2 etc but for ls7 they certainly dont line up.

I have the FAST 102 and the LS7 style heads on my LSX 454 I'm gonna do that and take pictures and see how it lines up and post them. I' curious to see if it's as bad as you say.

if i have time i'll do the same with mine tomorrow.

Yeah, very curious to see what you gain. I tend to be an n/a fan but at some point you have to say why? I have tfs 235s and was thinking about LS7 heads but not any more. I was hoping to trap 135-136 with a 3650 lbs race weight. Another guy that has a turbo can just turn it up the boost and you have no chance. Seems like it's always about going a little faster.

Is your friend with the TFS 235s going to have results soon?

Yeah the one with the tfs235's with the harrop 8 throttle bodies made the following:

583rwhp and 730nm torque with a T56 and 440ci

ok took the pictures of how the FAST 102 LS7 style lines up with the ports, as you can see the bottom of the port is out by a fair bit and it is about the same amount at the top of the port if you push up with your fingers into the port of the head.

http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/the-world-of-sports/1485d1326953370-my-new-toy-dsc00952re.jpg

http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/the-world-of-sports/1486d1326953372-my-new-toy-dsc00954.jpg

http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/the-world-of-sports/1487d1326953374-my-new-toy-dsc00953re.jpg

http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/the-world-of-sports/1488d1326953376-my-new-toy-dsc00955.jpg

wow looks terrible. Anyone else with this problem?

wow looks terrible. Anyone else with this problem?

and as said before this is on 2 lower shells that i have so how is it possible i have 2 shells that are wrong, this problem will be on all LS7 fast 102's.

I said before i thought my original shell might have had a bow in it so i went to the trouble of ordering a whole brand new lower shell. they both look just like this.

That can't be helping transition at all there :bang::eek2:

The 100,000 dollar question is which heads are they bolted too???

I have never seen that large a mismatch with stock LS7 heads

Are these ported stock heads or aftermarket castings?

-Tony

The 100,000 dollar question is which heads are they bolted too???

I have never seen that large a mismatch with stock LS7 heads

Are these ported stock heads or aftermarket castings?

-Tony

They are LSX LS7 heads they are cnc ported but as you can see you can see the head the cnc doesn't add material to the heads.

The cnc program used also takeks hardly anything out of the outside diameter of the port compared to stock.

I didn't have time to do this but I would bet money that it's the LSX heads and your CNC program. The LSX block has core shift and the LSX heads are different from basic ls7 heads. You know what the tell tale will be is if you get your new intake and you have the same problem.

If I did it over again I wouldn't have buy a LSX setup I would have went with a custom built ls7 427 aluminum block.

Ok im ditching my fast 102 intake as the ports dont match the heads and i want you guys to help out with the deciding on a new intake and or ideas etc.

I want them to all be under hood type intakes.

I'm going to start the thread off with different types of ls7 intakes.

CFE Racing.com
http://www.cferacing.com/images/sbc-manifold/CFE_LS_XR/cfe_ls_xr_1.jpg

Harrop.com.au - not yet released.
http://www.harrop.com.au/images/harrop_hurricane_trolley.jpg

Ozmo engineering
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/398574_10150435017834103_553679102_8518780_8364863 31_n.jpg

Ozmo engineering
http://media.photobucket.com/image/ozmo%20engineering/lpe403/SEMA%202011/85fdb522.jpg
http://www.semashow.com/sites/default/files/images/SEMAShow2011NewProducts/RS7-SR_Intake_Manifold_opt_sm.jpg

wilson manifolds.com
http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/product_images/product-large_image-169.jpg

wilson manifolds.com
http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/product_images/product-large_image-6.jpg

the jenvey kit that stage 7 has is not on the list

I didn't have time to do this but I would bet money that it's the LSX heads and your CNC program. The LSX block has core shift and the LSX heads are different from basic ls7 heads. You know what the tell tale will be is if you get your new intake and you have the same problem.

If I did it over again I wouldn't have buy a LSX setup I would have went with a custom built ls7 427 aluminum block.

yes but the LS7 ports are "suppose" to be the same as the LSX LS7 ports, the LSX LS7 port is suppose to be an as cast version of the LS7 port.

And as far as my cnc program it only removes material in the picture there is an excess material of head at the bottom of the ports. so there is no way it can be the cnc program as it doesn't change the outside shape of the port entry if anything it takes the slightest amount of material out but explain how there is excess material here in the head showing through the port.


see here: as cast LS7 port on the LSX LS7 port:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_DSforCSEY

Can someone else please bolt their lower shell down and do the same pics i have done, be sure to make sure it is tightened down correctly and pulled in tight against the head.

Can someone else please bolt their lower shell down and do the same pics i have done, be sure to make sure it is tightened down correctly and pulled in tight against the head.Mine was the exact same problem. LS2 Portworks fixed mine by raising the top of the intake port as far as we could go. Then we raised the bottom by grinding on the port adapter and shimmed it up until we got the needed amount. We got .085 of the .100 needed, best that we could get. Anymore and we would have busted thru the port adapter on the inside edge while smoothing the new transition. These were on PI/MAST LXR 6 bolt LS7's. :bang:

Mine was the exact same problem. LS2 Portworks fixed mine by raising the top of the intake port as far as we could go. Then we raised the bottom by grinding on the port adapter and shimmed it up until we got the needed amount. We got .085 of the .100 needed, best that we could get. Anymore and we would have busted thru the port adapter on the inside edge while smoothing the new transition. These were on PI/MAST LXR 6 bolt LS7's. :bang:

First off you have the same 6 bolt not stock style ls7 heads and to make it worse you have a port adapter which makes it evern less of a useful comparrison. Not knocking your setup just your setup is not a good candidate for this test.

Had a hunch it wasn't going to be an OEM stock LS7 head....

Race heads typically cheat the port locations higher to take advantage of a better line of sight to the back of the valve.

Keep in mind the intake interface thickness plays a huge role in where the manifold lines up to the heads. In the OP's case he could be creative and use say a spacer around .125 thick (if I had to guess) to get the manifold to sit higher in the "V" so the ports line up better.

Unfortunately these are just some of the issues you run into when building aftermarket race engines with various manufacturers components.

Take a deep breath and dive in....there is always solutions.....some just take longer and cost more than you hoped (others can be not so painful and a little ingenuity goes a long way).

I bet you lunch a stock LS7 head would line up much differently. Also, the deck height of the block comes into play....not sure if this engine is a stock LS deck height or if that was cheated up a little.

Its always best to do your homework before you start a thread semi-bashing a vendor about fitment issues.....make sure you are dealing truly with the components this intake was designed around (and in this situation that's not the case).

Good luck with the new intake system....I'm sure its going to honk on this engine.....look at this as a blessing in disguise!

-Tony

Yeah no way that the LSX ls7 heads are exactly the same hell they even say ore material on the flanges and stuff like that which means sizing is slightly different. I'm def gonna be doing something with mine though cause that is def not pretty

I can understand your points tony about bashing a product and it looks like the culprit here is the LSX LS7 heads not the manifold.

I know what you mean about deck height and that too im unsure how different it is from LSX454 to LS7

Im going with the harrop intake and when it gets here if i need to build spacers for it i will do so.

I "believe" the LSX LS7 heads bolt hole locations for the manifold must be slightly lower than a standard LS7 style head in order for this manifold to line up correctly on an LS7 and not on an LSX LS7 head.

Looking at an LS7 ports and LSX LS7 ports in the video they look identical what we cant tell is if the bolt hole lactions for the manifold are in the exact same spot in relation to lining up the port.

Either way this is annoying and sucks.....alot!

Tony would you be able to check bolt hole locations in relation to the ports on both an LS7 and an LSX LS7 head looking again at the video now and pausing in a large screen it looks like the LSX bolt holes are ever so slightly lower.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/335841d1327049423-various-ls7-intakes-lsx-ls7.jpg

First off you have the same 6 bolt not stock style ls7 heads and to make it worse you have a port adapter which makes it evern less of a useful comparrison. Not knocking your setup just your setup is not a good candidate for this test. The PORT ADAPTER is the name of the ADAPTER that the FAST LS7 uses on the lower shell for each port, see post 26. "You should know this," as they are not sold separately yet, so don't screw one up with porting.

You can take this with a large grain of salt...It looks like we gained about 10 rwhp. After LS2 Portworks re-ported my manifold and modified the adapters. Since, I also raised the compression at the same time I can only use know percentage gains for each compression point gain from my starting point. We overall gained 27 rwhp. Calculated out to 16 rwhp gain from compression increase, again "Calculates." I due wonder how many have slight misalignment issues and don't know it..? Not saying it would be large like mine but there could be a few hp's making sure the ports line up...

Also, the port dimensions were measured along with the bottom of port from deck surface. Unfortunately, we had "NO" known reference for a Stock LS7 heads from the "deck surface measurement," since block deck height, along with head gasket thickness can affect these measurements, the point seemed moot. My guess, my ports are taller by a tenth than the average LS7 head.....:bang:

The PORT ADAPTER is the name of the ADAPTER that the FAST LS7 uses on the lower shell for each port, see post 26. "You should know this," as they are not sold separately yet, so don't screw one up with porting.

You can take this with a large grain of salt...It looks like we gained about 10 rwhp. After LS2 Portworks re-ported my manifold and modified the adapters. Since, I also raised the compression at the same time I can only use know percentage gains for each compression point gain from my starting point. We overall gained 27 rwhp. Calculated out to 16 rwhp gain from compression increase, again "Calculates." I due wonder how many have slight misalignment issues and don't know it..? Not saying it would be large like mine but there could be a few hp's making sure the ports line up...

Also, the port dimensions were measured along with the bottom of port from deck surface. Unfortunately, we had "NO" known reference for a Stock LS7 heads from the "deck surface measurement," since block deck height, along with head gasket thickness can affect these measurements, the point seemed moot. My guess, my ports are taller by a tenth than the average LS7 head.....:bang:
Oh ok I thought you had like a ls7 intake and l92 or ls2 head and had a adapter inbetween. Thats just the lower shell not an adapter

slippi84 you said you have an LSX right or someone else did can you get some photo's up please?

looks like im going to have to make adaptor plates for my harrop intake if these bolt holes are 100-150thou short in comparison to the ls7 bolt holes.

slippi84 you said you have an LSX right or someone else did can you get some photo's up please?

looks like im going to have to make adaptor plates for my harrop intake if these bolt holes are 100-150thou short in comparison to the ls7 bolt holes.

I can try when I go to my tbss but I can guarentee its gonna bevery simular to yours.

Im just gonna switch to a gmpp cast bottom and found a guy making efi elbows. That way ill know it lines up and it will make going dp with my nitrous setup a piece of cake.

I put my LSXR up for sale and I bought the 19244033 and the aron elbow for 102mm tb. Should be beast with a direct port kit. Anyone want a LSXR LS7 intake :)

Oh ok I thought you had like a ls7 intake and l92 or ls2 head and had a adapter inbetween. Thats just the lower shell not an adapter

Actually, to get this info out (also so I won't get a that's not right), I'll explain better. The port adapter fits into a slot from the head side into the lower shell. On post 26 you can see the bottom of the port has a gap. The gap is caused because that bottom piece you see slides out tward the head (hard to explain...). You can see how if you raise that adapter, you'll have to smooth the transition to the now higher port, to the horn.

Sounds like in both of your choices your both going different manifolds. :devil:

I am no advocate for Fast products but unless you have a tall deck block I do not see what the problem is. I have an ls7 block with the lsx heads and a fast 102. You bolt the lower half of the intake to the heads(already bolted to the block...mocked up you know) and then you match the ports perfectly with the head ports and do any other porting to the balance of the intake you deem necessary. I have done this with various cathedral port builds also and never a problem. I always wonder how the manifold porters can match up the ports without having your engine on site...I believe they do not match up if you were to properly check out the alignment of the lower half. I wish their was a less expensive way to go with the ITB's.

Actually, to get this info out (also so I won't get a that's not right), I'll explain better. The port adapter fits into a slot from the head side into the lower shell. On post 26 you can see the bottom of the port has a gap. The gap is caused because that bottom piece you see slides out tward the head (hard to explain...). You can see how if you raise that adapter, you'll have to smooth the transition to the now higher port, to the horn.

Sounds like in both of your choices your both going different manifolds. :devil:

Yeah I'm not messing with any adapters or spacers the GMPP LSX ls7 single plain standard deck intake manifold for carbs drilling out the fuel injector bung holes throwing a Arons elbow for 102mm tb on top and calling it a day. I know for a fact that everything will fit perfectly no port mismatches or porting needed. Like the fact that O.N spent almost 5k on a intake and still needs parts to make it fit it were me would make me blow my lid.

Yeah I'm not messing with any adapters or spacers the GMPP LSX ls7 single plain standard deck intake manifold for carbs drilling out the fuel injector bung holes throwing a Arons elbow for 102mm tb on top and calling it a day. I know for a fact that everything will fit perfectly no port mismatches or porting needed. Like the fact that O.N spent almost 5k on a intake and still needs parts to make it fit it were me would make me blow my lid.

Yes but you have no idea if the lsx ls7 intake fits ls7 heads properly or lsx heads, clearly the lsx heads seem like they have different bolt hole locations so does this intake suit the lsx or the ls7 you'll find out when you get it.

as for the harrop a simple adaptor plate is need and having access to cnc and laser cutting machines its no biggy to make something up and or if needed cut the flange off the harrop intake and make a new flange or even just relocate the bolt holes on the harrop intake.

Metal is going to be alot easier to work with compared to the plastic fast manifold.

Yes but you have no idea if the lsx ls7 intake fits ls7 heads properly or lsx heads, clearly the lsx heads seem like they have different bolt hole locations so does this intake suit the lsx or the ls7 you'll find out when you get it.

as for the harrop a simple adaptor plate is need and having access to cnc and laser cutting machines its no biggy to make something up and or if needed cut the flange off the harrop intake and make a new flange or even just relocate the bolt holes on the harrop intake.

Metal is going to be alot easier to work with compared to the plastic fast manifold.

My new intake was made especially for the lsx ls7 heads so I DO know it will fit perfect. It's not made for ls7 heads but LSX ls7 gmpp heads.

My new intake was made especially for the lsx ls7 heads so I DO know it will fit perfect. It's not made for ls7 heads but LSX ls7 gmpp heads.

yeah i know it is specific but the LSX heads are suppose to be the exact same "as cast" LS7 with a 6th bolt hole and a thicker deck. So who is to say they fucked that up that they also fucked up the intake for it...... just saying double check it when you get it. use a micro cam if needed and look down the ports.

I'm running a gm ls7 block perform ind lsx ls7 heads and perform ind 2 piece Cnc Lsx
manifold and the precision fit to the ports are PERFECT

yeah i know it is specific but the LSX heads are suppose to be the exact same "as cast" LS7 with a 6th bolt hole and a thicker deck. So who is to say they fucked that up that they also fucked up the intake for it...... just saying double check it when you get it. use a micro cam if needed and look down the ports.

No I mean they sell this intake with the engine if you want it in carb from its literally made just for this engine and this head not just for any ls7 head. Actually makes sense now cause they had one intake that said for LS7 heads and another that said for the sx ls7 single plain standard deck. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/LSX-LS7-Carbureted-Intake-Manifold-19244033-P2512C122.aspx

It even has LSX right on the manifold

O.N. Do you not read the posts that are answering your questions. You are obviously doing something wrong. Find someone local that has the mechanical skills to see if you have interference fit or what is wrong. So many internet posters get on here and complain about problems with products and it is their own ignorance or incompetence that is the problem.

O.N. Do you not read the posts that are answering your questions. You are obviously doing something wrong. Find someone local that has the mechanical skills to see if you have interference fit or what is wrong. So many internet posters get on here and complain about problems with products and it is their own ignorance or incompetence that is the problem.

it's been read and understood completely simply put the fast 102 fits an ls7 and not and lsx ls7.
and adapter plate needs to be made or better still get the harrop and then make an adapter plate or fill in the harrop bolt holes on the flange and make new bolt holes and/or cut the flange off a brand new intake and make a new flange that fits, the ports all line up no problems just dont bolt it down cause the bolt holes dont line up..

Point being GMPP were dumb enough to bring out a head and give it a name called LSX LS7 "as cast LS7 but its not as cast the bloody bolt holes are in a slightly lower location.

Then I think should edit this thread entirely....

You beat up FAST pretty hard, and it was totally unwarranted. It looks to be user error by mismatching incompatable componets.

Then I think should edit this thread entirely....

You beat up FAST pretty hard, and it was totally unwarranted. It looks to be user error by mismatching incompatable componets.

well no it's not user error at all the thread should start off by beating up the LSX heads....lol and not the fast manifold.

we were all told the LSX heads are as cast LS7 heads with only a thicker deck and a 6th bolt hole. when in fact the dumb asses at gmpp made the holes lower for the manifold. And they all told us that LS7 intakes will fit no drama's and yep they fit and yep the port sizes are the same but when you do bolt it down it bolts slightly lower.

I think the thread can stay as it is people can read onwards and see how the thread has progressed into diagnosing the problem with the head/intake combo and how we have all yet again been told false info from gmpp.

LSX LS7 heads are not LSX LS7 they should just be called LSX heads there is nothing LS7 about them, other than port design.
It's such a stupid error on their behalf. and good luck getting them to fix their fuck up.

well no it's not user error at all the thread should start off by beating up the LSX heads....lol and not the fast manifold.

we were all told the LSX heads are as cast LS7 heads with only a thicker deck and a 6th bolt hole. when in fact the dumb asses at gmpp made the holes lower for the manifold. And they all told us that LS7 intakes will fit no drama's and yep they fit and yep the port sizes are the same but when you do bolt it down it bolts slightly lower.

I think the thread can stay as it is people can read onwards and see how the thread has progressed into diagnosing the problem with the head/intake combo and how we have all yet again been told false info from gmpp.

LSX LS7 heads are not LSX LS7 they should just be called LSX heads there is nothing LS7 about them, other than port design.
It's such a stupid error on their behalf. and good luck getting them to fix their fuck up.
I never read them say any of the stuff your saying. All that makes a LS7 a LS7 head is the ports. That's why you can bolt ls heads to other ls blocks. I really don't see how either company fucked up you just didn't research enough. GMPP offers a intake for the heads that bolts right up and says its different from the regular ls7 head with the fact they mak a solely lsx ls7 intake for standard and taller deck aside from the ls7 intake.

I never read them say any of the stuff your saying. All that makes a LS7 a LS7 head is the ports. That's why you can bolt ls heads to other ls blocks. I really don't see how either company fucked up you just didn't research enough. GMPP offers a intake for the heads that bolts right up and says its different from the regular ls7 head with the fact they mak a solely lsx ls7 intake for standard and taller deck aside from the ls7 intake.

well no they say it is "as cast ls7 heads" which gives the impression they are exactly the same other than the 6th bolt hole and a thicker deck.

Even when the rep from gmpp in the youtube video is explaining the differences between the 2 heads hey says "it is the same other than those 2 difference's" and to say its just a specific lsx intake is bullshit because if they wanted just LSX intakes why would they give it the exact same bolt pattern to bolt the LS7 manifold up but fuck it up by 5-8mm in depth.....its a fuck up on gmpp's nothing more nothing less we were all told AS CAST LS7 with 2 additions. meaning its identical but slightly better.

well no they say it is "as cast ls7 heads" which made me assume they are exactly the same other than the 6th bolt hole and a thicker deck.

Even when the rep from gmpp in the youtube video is explaining the differences between the 2 heads hey says "it is the same other than those 2 difference's" and to say its just a specific lsx intake is bullshit because if they wanted just LSX intakes why would they give it the exact same bolt pattern to bolt the LS7 manifold up but fuck it up by 5-8mm in depth.....its a fuck up on gmpp's nothing more nothing less we were all told AS CAST LS7 with 2 additions. meaning its identical but slightly better.

fixed lol. Listen man I hopped on the bandwagon too with the same heads as you just admit it we assumed that just because it said LS7 it meant all LS7 type heads. Problem is that now you have a $5k manifold and your still in the same boat.

fixed lol. Listen man I hopped on the bandwagon too with the same heads as you just admit it we assumed that just because it said LS7 it meant all LS7 type heads. Problem is that now you have a $5k manifold and your still in the same boat.

Nah its going to be alot easier to fix compared to the fast as its metal there is so many options to fix it.

1. make adaptor plate spacers see if that works
2. fill in bolt holes on the manifol and tap new bolt holes
3. cut flange off manifold cnc cut a new flange with the right bolt hole locations to suit my heads

the port sizes are correct and the port spacing is correct i have measured my heads and i got harrop to measure their intake for me so its going to be a good port match but obviously the bolt holes "might" suit LS7 and not LSX.


It's a shame really i feel there is a trickery here from gmpp cause they have everyone convinced its just a better version of the ls7 head so people like you me and the many others out there think we can just buy an ls7 manifold or a fast ls7 manifold.....hell even GMPP has an LSX454 in their catalog with an LS7 manifold on it and what about denoyeer building the camaro with the 454 they too think they can bolt a fast 102 up to it, it is 150% a mistake gmpp has made.

Look at the front cover of their catalog the LSX454 with an LS7 manifold sitting right there ontop
http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/the-world-of-sports/1492d1327241684-my-new-toy-gmpp-catalog.jpg

Nah its going to be alot easier to fix compared to the fast as its metal there is so many options to fix it.

1. make adaptor plate spacers see if that works
2. fill in bolt holes on the manifol and tap new bolt holes
3. cut flange off manifold cnc cut a new flange with the right bolt hole locations to suit my heads

the port sizes are correct and the port spacing is correct i have measured my heads and i got harrop to measure their intake for me so its going to be a good port match but obviously the bolt holes "might" suit LS7 and not LSX.


It's a shame really i feel there is a trickery here from gmpp cause they have everyone convinced its just a better version of the ls7 head so people like you me and the many others out there think we can just buy an ls7 manifold or a fast ls7 manifold.....hell even GMPP has an LSX454 in their catalog with an LS7 manifold on it and what about denoyeer building the camaro with the 454 they too think they can bolt a fast 102 up to it, it is 150% a mistake gmpp has made.

Look at the front cover of their catalog the LSX454 with an LS7 manifold sitting right there ontop
http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/the-world-of-sports/1492d1327241684-my-new-toy-gmpp-catalog.jpg

Just curious which solution are you leaning toward. I would think that filling the wholes and making new ones would def be the best solution but I don't know if it would be the easiest do to manifold design.

That picture is misleading too because the 620hp model is the carb version and yet they show the EFI version with like you said a stock ls7 intake.

Just curious which solution are you leaning toward. I would think that filling the wholes and making new ones would def be the best solution but I don't know if it would be the easiest do to manifold design.

That picture is misleading too because the 620hp model is the carb version and yet they show the EFI version with like you said a stock ls7 intake.

well i have a bare head to work from which is exactly the same cnc'ed heads i have on my car, i think i'll first make up a template and then make up a program and laser cut out some 6mm plate and then bolt that up and see how it looks, if thats all that is needed then great, if not i will look at filling the bolt holes on the manifold and then re drilling/tapping new holes to suit.
i want a perfect fit and yeah even when i get it i might do some hand porting to get that perfect fit.

i got the port height/width and port spacing from harrop and based on their measurements and mine its going to be a very close fit.

Measurements are:

Harrop
port width 31.41mm
port height 58.84mm
port spacing 80.4mm
(gasket porting area from inside port to gasket)
left side 4.8mm
right side 2.4mm

LSX LS7 Head (cnc ported)
port width 34.5mm
port height 59.1mm
port spacing 78mm

As you can see its very close not perfect but very close, it might not even be worth a tidy up and if i get it and its completly wrong i'll just send it back and look at building my own sheet metal if im forced to, or a friend of mine is doing itb's i'll just get custom ones that will 100% match up as we will make the flanges ourselves.

Just like the corvette Z06 brakes i now have fitted to the GTO...lol custom brackets made from 7071.

You are unable to read. Period. I have the same heads as you do!!! What the hell do you not understand when you read that sentence. The fast 102 intake bolts up without any problems to the as cast gmpp lsx ls7 heads. I personally built this engine last January. I cleaned up the ports on the as cast heads and port matched the intake to the heads. Car produced 602 rwhp in corvette. BTW I have visited Australia and think you folks are a great lot. Also thought you might be wiser than this.

You are unable to read. Period. I have the same heads as you do!!! What the hell do you not understand when you read that sentence. The fast 102 intake bolts up without any problems to the as cast gmpp lsx ls7 heads. I personally built this engine last January. I cleaned up the ports on the as cast heads and port matched the intake to the heads. Car produced 602 rwhp in corvette. BTW I have visited Australia and think you folks are a great lot. Also thought you might be wiser than this.

thanks i have listened but have had 2 different shops here tell me they have had the same problem with the LSX heads now and that the fast 102 bolts up perfectly to the LS7 head but not the LSX head.

What more can i say.....

Did you get the ITB manifold yet I'm curious to see how far off it is if it's off?

Did you get the ITB manifold yet I'm curious to see how far off it is if it's off?

I have been in contact with harrop and i have sent a bare LSX LS7 head to them so that they can chop/cut/adjust the bolt hole locations on their manifold if it is needed before i fit it.

I have been in contact with harrop and i have sent a bare LSX LS7 head to them so that they can chop/cut/adjust the bolt hole locations on their manifold if it is needed before i fit it.

Good idea. Least they could do for 5k lol

$225 elbow $427 intake manifold $400 to get the injector bungs drilles out and the manifold tapped brings the total to $1052 throw a NW102 tb in for $600 and you have one badass LS7 intake setup olif I do say so myself..

$225 elbow $427 intake manifold $400 to get the injector bungs drilles out and the manifold tapped brings the total to $1052 throw a NW102 tb in for $600 and you have one badass LS7 intake setup olif I do say so myself..

this wont clear the hood though?

this wont clear the hood though?

I have a Trail Blazer SS but you car guys would just get the lower profile elbow and you should be good. I know a lot of guys cut the cowl underneath or what not. The intake itself puts the flange only slightly higher than the heads hieght. eddlebrock makes a black elbow that is like VERY low pro that I know would fit if you really wanted to be sure you could use this setup.

Here's the car elbow like mine
http://www.6061.com/lsx.htm

Here's the eddlebrock elbow
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/intake_elbows.shtml

Dont the low pro elbows limit flow?

Dont the low pro elbows limit flow?

Depends on the elbow and setup but it is true that a taller more direct elbow would flow more. If your dead set on every last bit of hp you can go with a cowl hood or cut the stock hood to clear a taller elbow but I would go with a lower pro elbow. Or you can always get a 4150 tb which bolts right to the manifold and you put a air filter on top like you would do with a carb setup.

Here is a 4150 tb
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FST-304149/

ok i have the harrop intake in and i have great news.

harrop measured an LS7 head for me in all possibly ways where the bolt holes are located in relation to the ports, they then measured my LSX LS7 head and got the exact same measurement other than my ports were the slightest bit larger due to cnc porting.

They then bolted the intake to an LS7 head looked inside and it matched up fine, they then bolted it to my LSX LS7 head and looked inside and it matched up fine.

Then once i got the manifold as i would like to see this "matched up perfectly" thing myself i bolted to my LSX LS7 head and yeah its a near perfect match i have attached a photo its very hard to see but it does match up very nicely.

So i still think the FAST manifold is a piece of shit....lol

ok i have the harrop intake in and i have great news.

harrop measured an LS7 head for me in all possibly ways where the bolt holes are located in relation to the ports, they then measured my LSX LS7 head and got the exact same measurement other than my ports were the slightest bit larger due to cnc porting.

They then bolted the intake to an LS7 head looked inside and it matched up fine, they then bolted it to my LSX LS7 head and looked inside and it matched up fine.

Then once i got the manifold as i would like to see this "matched up perfectly" thing myself i bolted to my LSX LS7 head and yeah its a near perfect match i have attached a photo its very hard to see but it does match up very nicely.

So i still think the FAST manifold is a piece of shit....lol

Man just let it go why you so head strong on bashing a company. First it's F.A.S.T then it's GMPP now it's F.A.S.T again. FIrst off who says that Harrop even knows what they're measuring or that their measurments are right? GMPP makes two different intakes one is just for the LS7 head the other is for the LSX LS7 head so obviously there is a difference. You got a intake that wasn't for your heads that's all. Enjoy your new intake and just keepon going faster.

Looks good O.N. Get that thing on and tuned. You should be in for a nice gain in mph. The Harrop is a nice piece. I'm assuming you are staying dbw?

Man just let it go why you so head strong on bashing a company. First it's F.A.S.T then it's GMPP now it's F.A.S.T again. FIrst off who says that Harrop even knows what they're measuring or that their measurments are right? GMPP makes two different intakes one is just for the LS7 head the other is for the LSX LS7 head so obviously there is a difference. You got a intake that wasn't for your heads that's all. Enjoy your new intake and just keepon going faster.

Well no you are bashing GMPP and sticking up for FAST.
The LSX LS7 head is suppose to be an "as a cast version" of the LS7 head with only 2 additions a thicker deck and a 6th head bolt.

Harrop are not dumb so don't assume that they are. They are one of the industry leaders here and they make some very good products and have been doing so for the last 75years also with their involvement in V8 Supercars.

If they have measured both heads and gone to the trouble to get me to send them my LSX head then they have measured both heads, they also built their intake from the measurements of the LS7 head so the intake they built is built to match up with the LS7 head.

Now the intake i have from them matches up fine in their shop on an LS7 head and on my LSX LS7 head, and then when i got both sent back to me i matched them up fine too.

The only manifold in this situation that doesn't line up is the fast manifold.

GMPP even states in their catalogue with the picture of an LS7 manifold on top of the LSX454. The heads are as cast LS7 and the measurements harrop have taken were the same and the manifold they have built lines up near perfect on both LSX LS7 and LS7.

I am not harping on about it i couldn't give a shit anymore but what i do care about is other people should take the time to see how the fast fits on their LS7 heads or their LSX LS7 heads. Personally if i had of not ported the fast manifold and had of tried to only install the lower shell when i very first got the fast manifold i would have sent the thing straight back unused and got a refund.

End of rant i have supplied pics of both the fast and its problems and i have supplied the pics of the harrop as best as i can and it's near perfect match.
I have made harrop fit the manifold to both my LSX heads and the LS7 head i have made them measure all bolt hole locations and even had them completly understanding my problem with the fast and willing to help me if i had the same problem with their manifold by cutting/welding/adaptor plates/etc to make it fit. Luckily none of this was needed and it matches up fine.

Best of luck to whoever buys a FAST for an LS7 style head i'll never buy a fast again or recommend it.

Im glad your happy with your new intake but if the company that makes the head says there is a need for a different manifold Ill take that over a 3rd party company who makes parta for it. Too many people using porting and messing with them for it not to be a isolated problem to either aftermarket heads or just a bad bottom. Either way all's well that ends well.

Im glad your happy with your new intake but if the company that makes the head says there is a need for a different manifold Ill take that over a 3rd party company who makes parta for it. Too many people using porting and messing with them for it not to be a isolated problem to either aftermarket heads or just a bad bottom. Either way all's well that ends well.

well no GMPP have not said there is a need for a different manifold at all, they have said we have built a carb style manifold and you can run that intake or the ls7 intake hence the photo on the front cover of their magazine displaying the LS7 intake sitting on top of the LSX454.

Its a FAST fuck up plain and simple.

see picture where it says ls7 style port.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/338267d1328148073-various-ls7-intakes-lsx-manifold.jpg

Also see this picture where it says suits only LS7 and LSX LS7 heads.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/338272d1328148168-various-ls7-intakes-ls7-manifold.jpg

Your wrong man just let it go!!!

LS7 4-Barrel Intake Manifold 25534394 Description
25534394 LS7 4-Barrel Intake Manifold
• Lightweight GM Racing design for use on LS7-style heads
• Reduced mass design, porting not recommended
• Includes mounting bolts and instructions
• Uses LS7 carb intake gasket set P/N 19172113
• Machined for 4150-style carburetors and has 3/8" NPT vacuum boss
• Also available with injector bosses, P/N 25534413
NOTE: LSX Ignition Controller P/N 19171130 is required for carbureted applications.
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LSX / LS7 Carbureted Intake Manifold 19244033 Description
19244033 Single plane Std Deck Carbureted Intake Manifold.
GM Performance Parts is pleased to announce the first of the many components and manifolds available under the LSX product line. This first release is our single plane intake manifold designed with LS7 ports and is available in the standard deck or tall deck version. Additional material has been added to this manifold for custom porting or modification work. Spec: • LS7 ports configuration • Single Plane for mid-range and top-end performance • Injector bosses cast in for injection or Nitrous use • Extra thick materials for professional porting • 4150 style carburetor mounting • Uses OEM O-ring gaskets and fasteners ( included ) Part Number 19244033 Std Deck version Part Number 19244032 Tall Deck version
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Just because it says ls7 STYLE PORT does not mean it's for a ls7 STYLE HEAD

Just because it says ls7 STYLE PORT does not mean it's for a ls7 STYLE HEAD

The wording is very weak-but i understand what you are trying to say-

The wording is very weak-but i understand what you are trying to say-

I agree but that's what it is. We get so caught up in the fact that USUALLY anything with a ls3 port is a ls3 head anything with a ls7 port is a ls7 head ect. The LSX stuff is not built exactly like the other stuff but doesn't mean that most times it won't work. You just happened to be one of people that actually looked and took note(talking about the OP) It's not X or Y companies fault it's just that's how they made their product. The wording is how they make money and then if someone like you catches the small difference they keep thier hands clean. Like if you say something is built off something else but you make it thicker well then it's not the same.

slippi84 why are you so gung ho on defending the FAST? His didnt line up with either head. The ports were measured to be the same including bolt holes.

Either O.N. was unlucky and got two screwed up intakes or it is a common problem. Most people do not take the intake apart to check for the line up so this problem may be more present than thought.

He bought an intake that works and will make more power. He is getting the word out to CHECK YOUR FAST to be sure it isnt a common problem.

Air on the side of precaution so to speak.

You didnt use a FAST either due to price and partially this thread.

Slippi you can keep banging on all day long about it and you can post something that reads the words LS7 style port and then i can just post the picture again which shows the LS7 standard manifold where it clearly states LS7 and LSX LS7 heads.

FOR USE ONLY WITH LS7 AND LSX/LS7-STYLE CYLINDER HEADS
http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/generation-iv-external-engine/338272d1328148168-various-ls7-intakes-ls7-manifold.jpg

This pulls your story apart about "LS7 style ports" and it matches it up to the heads. Also this manifold sits on the front cover of GMPP magazine on top of the LSX454. Fact is the LS7 head has been measured the LSX head has been measured it is the same, GMPP call the LSX head "as cast" and it is as cast it is identical to the LS7 with 2 additional features.

So as far as your LS7 carb style manifold which reads "LS7 style port" that is pulled to pieces when you read the one i have just posted as it is LS7 EFI manifold and it suits both LSX and LS7 with "LS7 style ports".........

I don't understand why you are so determined to back FAST here, but clearly there is a mistake on their behalf.

This thread has run is course. No one is winning and no one is going to change their mind.

O.N. assumes FAST is always wrong...

Slippi & I basically agree that no one else is having issues with their FAST LS7 intakes.

/thread